APS wants to close 13 schools. Echoes of DeKalb’s experience.
The Atlanta school board will take up school closings today. (AJC file)
Atlanta school chief Erroll Davis is recommending 13 schools close and new attendance lines be drawn across the district.
While the names of the 13 schools have been released, the new attendance lines/feeder systems have not. (You can read the AJC news story here.)
If you remember, DeKalb started with a plan to shutter 14 schools, but the public outcry pared the list down to eight schools. I wonder if the same retreat will occur in Atlanta if enough parents rise up in protest.
Thus far, the most attention has been to the proposed redrawing of attendance lines in those APS neighborhoods where the elementary schools have become community focal points. But there are several beloved neighborhood schools on this closing list, so I suspect parents will be upset and will seek a reconsideration.
Davis wants 10 school clusters, but those boundary lines – which parents are anxious to see – will be released later this week.
The APS board meets today and Davis will present his school closing recommendations. (Note that a few of these schools had the most serious allegations of cheating.)
The 14 schools are:
Parks Middle School
Capitol View Elementary School
Thomasville Heights Elementary School
Boyd Elementary School
F.L. Stanton Elementary School
White Elementary School
Fain Elementary School
Cook Elementary School
Coan Middle School
East Lake Elementary School;
Humphries Elementary School
Kennedy Middle School
Herndon Elementary School
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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130 comments Add your comment
Thomas
March 5th, 2012
12:02 pm
Atlanta will follow the collapse of other failed inner city systems such as Kansas City, Mo Memphis TN , Detroit,Michigan, Dekalb Cty, Ga , Cook Cty. Illinois 50% of all city schools closed or closing students population down by at least 50% from peak enrollment.
Common factors: Focus on keeping obselete facilities , padding staff, corruption in administration
Deteriation of grades and alleged cheating, focus on throwing Federal dollars(created magically by Fed govt) into proven bottomless wells of corruption and tax payer deception.
One other common factor: most students are the left behind financially , with no morals for the leadership in their lives.Mass exodus by those who can afford to go to better performing sytems will continue trend of downward spiral. Perhaps can increase enrollment by allowing more illegal aliens into system!!!!!
ABC
March 5th, 2012
12:03 pm
Oh let’s see if I can play Nostredamus. He said 13. The public will issue an outcry, they will complain, the will mobilize, they will threaten. He changes his recommendation to 4. And next year when they still have a deficit, crumbling schools, overcrowded schools right next to empty ones, the circle will start all over again.
Have we not see this movie before?
Paula Morris
March 5th, 2012
12:04 pm
I don’t know if we will have the same outcry. But the reality is that we need some change. I just hope this will help in the long run.
Thank You APS!
March 5th, 2012
12:07 pm
You just lowered my property value!! Handing Coan MS to my affluent neighbors North of DeKalb Avenue and re-zoning Toomer and Whitefoord to King MS (when they are both within 1/4 mile of Coan MS) just clarifies the depth to which segregation among race and class is part of the official APS doctrine. “For Sale” sign going up in 30 days…
123
March 5th, 2012
12:11 pm
HeyThomas! News flash. They aren’t following the collapse they lead it! Close them!
Beverly Fraud
March 5th, 2012
12:18 pm
Clearly the fault of teachers. If they would only teach “research based” lessons, parents would FLOCK to APS and there wouldn’t be a shortage of students for these buildings.
What we need is a BLUE RIBBON COMMISSION to EXONERATE all staff at 210 Pyror Street and put the blame SQUARELY where it belongs:
-Not on demographics
-Not on moving patterns
-On the TEACHER and their steadfast refusal to teach “engaging” lessons, when they get such WONDERFUL support downtown. Shameful. Just shameful.
Really!?
March 5th, 2012
12:21 pm
Here is the gist of why Kirkwood and East Lake have a real reason to be upset-
1) East Lake Elementary- closing- big change!
2) Toomer absorbing East Lake- big change!
3) Completely new middle school- big change!
4) Completely new high school- big change!
I don’t know of another area that would have to have so many changes happen at every level. I think that Kirkwood and East Lake have many reasons to be upset.
tony
March 5th, 2012
12:27 pm
great point ” Thank You APS ” take a look at all the areas of town in metro atlanta where white families have left and are now almost completely black.. that is what the entire metro atlanta will look like within 30 years. there will still be a few pockets of nice neighborgoods sprinkled in north of the city where wealthy white families remain but for the most part atlanta will look like clayton county south dekalb, and the west end do now… it will be one big ghetto !!!
intown parent
March 5th, 2012
12:28 pm
To “Thank you APS” – be patient a bit longer…
There is still way more bloodletting to go.
I sincerely doubt that the Morningside/Va-Hi parents are going to be willing to truck their darlings all the way down to Coan. I fully expect the howling to begin (have started already -?) for Howard to be converted for that purpose. So then Coan is still in play – lobby to get King closed instead and bus those kids to Coan rather than vice versa… I don’t know which of the two is the better facility however, which must figured in.
Happy Kine and The Mirth Makers
March 5th, 2012
12:38 pm
Sounds like a good start. Lets just hope all teachers, admins etc employed at these schools receive their pink slip!!
Congrats on a job well done to all those that contributed to the down fall of these schools.
mift
March 5th, 2012
12:43 pm
Here is the deal…. APS has too many schools. Look at other districts the size of APS. They have half as many schools. It is about being good stewards of taxpayer dollars.
B. Killebrew
March 5th, 2012
12:45 pm
The list is pretty good except that I would keep two of the schools open:
Coan Middle
Capitol View Elementary
Coan is an emerging focal point for the communities around it. Capitol View has the potential to become another Toomer, Mary Lin, or Bolton.
Thank you 2
March 5th, 2012
12:46 pm
Kirkwood got SCREWED. Thanks APS for only listening to the rich, white communities.
ELMom
March 5th, 2012
12:56 pm
Peralte, don’t forget that East Lake also feeds into Coan. As an East Lake resident and a parent cosing Coan so that another community can use it for a 6th grade academy is a slap in the face.
ELMom
March 5th, 2012
12:56 pm
Sorry, hit the send button too fast.
Grady Gram no more
March 5th, 2012
12:58 pm
At least y’all aren’t having to deal with the Macon Miracle…bad news.
school rulz
March 5th, 2012
12:58 pm
Holy Cow! Kirkwood is getting screwed in this proposal!
Raquel Morris
March 5th, 2012
1:02 pm
How is Douglass High School, a one-time premier school that Beverly Hall systematically ruined, supposed to survive with only two elementary schools feeding it? Two of the schools in the Young MS cluster should be reassigned to the Douglass feeder pattern.
Toomer parent
March 5th, 2012
1:02 pm
The Inman 6th grade academy proposal taking over the Coan MS building is a gerrymandered mess serving the interests of Candler Park and Candler Park only, while disrupting communities from Va-Hi to East Lake.
In the case of Kirkwood/East Lake/Edgewood, it’s more than a disruption – it’s devastating. This recommendation turns our own neighborhood middle school into a wealthy annex with doors locked to its own neighbors. Shame on APS.
Zane Smith's teeth
March 5th, 2012
1:09 pm
Way to go APS. I can already hear the lawsuits cranking up. You will spend hundreds of thousands trying to defend your blatent discrimination against the Kirkwood/East Lake communities in favor of their richer/whiter neighbors to the North. Instead of actually using tax money appropriately, you have pandered to the vocal minority and will now have to spend even more money as a result. There is no way closing the neighborhood MS (Coan) and GIVING it to Candler Park/Lake Claire/VA-Highlands while you bus poorer neighborhood kids three times the distance away will stand.
Atlanta Mom
March 5th, 2012
1:20 pm
Here’s a little bit more information than provided by the AJC
http://atlantapublicschools.us/cms/lib/GA01000924/Centricity/Domain/45/FinalRecPub.pdf
SAPS
March 5th, 2012
1:24 pm
Shut APS down completely! Everything about it is corrupt and stinks! Too many bad apples! All of these schools fall within County school systems anyway. Close the shish down! NOW!
APS Grad
March 5th, 2012
1:29 pm
Not surprised by some of the schools on this list. A strong PTA and parent participation in their child’s education is the key!
Shar
March 5th, 2012
1:38 pm
Davis’ summary on the APS website says that this plan will only eliminate 7,200 of the 13,000 unused seats for the system. This seems like a partial fix, and invites the assumption that additional changes will be needed quite soon. Davis goes on to say that the savings from these closings will be used “in direct support of students – that is, to provide more counselors, assistant principals, paraprofessionals and special education resources. Also, we will be better positioned to coordinate resources for children from birth to five years old, our pre-k programs and school nutrition services.”
Why not more classroom teachers? Why plan to add to an already top-heavy and redundant bureaucracy? And why on earth is APS spending money to “coordinate resources for children from birth to five years old?” Where is social services’ responsibility?
A sixth grade off-site for Inman is a reasonable compromise for keeping Old Fourth Ward and Centennial in the Grady cluster. It reflects the effort that is currently made to keep 6th graders physically separated from 8th – the size differential of the students is just too great, and in the event of fights kids can be hurt. I agree that putting it in Coan seems nutty, though – intown parent is right, Howard would be a much more practical choice. However, it may be that investing in Howard (which has been allowed to crumble) may be just too expensive.
What are the comparative physical conditions of the schools on the closing list? Are any of them recent beneficiaries of SPLOST investment?
Intown
March 5th, 2012
1:43 pm
Looks like the Grady Cluster will now be saddled with having to carry Hope-Hill (aka Boulevard ghetto apartments). probably a good choice for “the system” but, not for the rest of the kids in the cluster. If this holds, hopefully the cluster will do more good for the Hope-Hill kids than the Hope-Hill kids harm the cluster. And by kids, I’m picking on their parents. The kids, in better hands, would turn out fine.
bu2
March 5th, 2012
1:49 pm
Some of the Dekalb changes were just common sense.
One elementary school that was kept open was geographically isolated and some students would have to go 12 miles to school.
Another, since nearby schools were full, was kept open instead of bussing students past 4 closer schools across two interstate highways to reach a school that wasn’t full.
Two others were magnet schools that were going to be closed without any review of their plan for handling gifted education. That could be considered kept open by parent pressure, but it really made no sense to close them 1st and figure out the plan later.
tony
March 5th, 2012
1:50 pm
the market for private schools continues to grow thanks to the APS AND THE DEKALB BOARD OF ED !!!
Acer
March 5th, 2012
1:55 pm
The David T. Howard building would provide enough capacity for a combined 5th and 6th grade academy, which would relieve the over-crowding at Mary-Lin, Springdale Park, and Inman Middle. I’m not sure on the interior condition, or the expense to upgrade the facilities, but it certainly seems to have the greatest amount of support within the community, and makes the most common sense geographically. Additionally, the Howard building is located adjacent to the Freedom Parkway trail and two blocks from the NE Beltline corridor, which would allow a large percentage of the potential students to safely travel from their respective home neighborhoods to the Howard building using the bicycle paths.
APS Grad
March 5th, 2012
1:59 pm
@Tony- Don’t forget to add Clayton county in the mix!
Acer
March 5th, 2012
2:03 pm
@Intown
Boulevard / O4W kids have been zoned to Grady High School for many years, so the recommended changes are just fully implementing the “cluster” model, where there is an earlier integration with the neighboring high performing elementary schools. In theory the program would work to relieve tensions and disparity of education levels at the High School, and bring the entire High School further up.
ATLDawg, ya dig?
March 5th, 2012
2:21 pm
“pandering to a vocal minority” = that’s politics. That’s the way our system works. If you want to fight for your local school, then I suggest you organize, mobilize, and GET your voice heard, instead of sitting around feeling sorry for yourself on some blog. FORTUNE FAVORS THE BOLD.
Thank You APS!
March 5th, 2012
2:30 pm
Here’s a thought – if you want to prevent me from trasferring my child to a better school out-of-zone and you don’t want to make the hard decisions to improve my in-zone school, then let me, Joe/Jane Taxpayer, take my school taxes and pursue a school choice that meets the educational needs of my child? You can either improve your schools, allow me to transfer to the better APS school, give me a voucher for my school taxes to spend elesewhere, or I will choose with my feet and APS will lose another middle class family to the suburbs or private schools. It’s that simple.
And as the schools in the more affluent areas become more overcrowded and the educational environment suffers, those parents will start walking, too.
APS has operated a dual system for far too long (one poor and Black, one rich and white) and this redistricting plan continues the disparity. Oh, and you got to love the fact none of the high schools on the South side currently have an IB curriculum (lower standards, lower expectations, lower performance).
atl
March 5th, 2012
2:32 pm
All the schools on the list are in the hood. This is a good move. There are so many APS schools that are not full, I lived in a neighborhood where Douglass high have lost so many student, Anderson Park elem., was closed down, Turner went from High school to middle, Never understood why Ms.Hall tore down West Fulton and build a new middle school,FL Stanton don’t a big enrollment,Kenndy always had problems..
I’m glad to see that APS will be making big changes, instead of cheating and big salaries going out the door.
Shar
March 5th, 2012
2:37 pm
@Thank you APS, the proposed Jackson High School and the revamped MLK middle school will have IB programs.
Taking your school taxes and putting them into a private school will not get you very far, particularly if you have more than one child and will have to stretch that tax money to cover multiple tuitions. You, like every other parent in public school, are depending on other people’s tax money to fund your child’s education. It’s painful – I know, because both of my daughters had their lives threatened in APS schools and APS decided that they were expendable. I felt differently, so I moved them out although my son stayed through 13 years.
Taking your money and walking is fine and can be a great choice, but you can’t take other people’s money and walk. Therein lies the political problem for vouchers.
Hosed in East Lake
March 5th, 2012
2:42 pm
absolutely disgusted…how is the proposal to bring kids from the Inman district into our district while our kids are shipped 5 miles away across I-20 even considered as a solution let alone recommended? wasn’t it enough to zone us out of the grady district? this is a huge blow for east lake, kirkwood, edgewood, etc..apparently the outcome of all this was directly related to the t-shirt and sign budget of the various neighborhoods. sad commentary but the results speak for themselves.
Mash
March 5th, 2012
2:56 pm
The demographer’s final plan from last Friday recommends the creation of 6th grade academy explicitly because “this action would allow Centennial Place to remain in the SRT 3/Grady Cluster.”
Now that the academy has been revealed to be Coan, the obvious question is why Kirkwood give up it’s middle school just to allow an elementary school across town to be included in Grady at the expense of Toomer being displaced from Grady.
The creation of this 6th grade academy makes it possible to include an additional elementary school in the Grady cluster. Being that Kirkwood is making this possible, logically, Toomer should be that additional elementary school rather than Centennial Place.
C Jae of EAV
March 5th, 2012
3:14 pm
@ Really!? 03/05 12:21pm – Let’s take a step back and reality check (a bitter pill though it may be).
EL closing – A change that demographically makes sence. Bigger question is what becomes of the building.
Toomer absorbing EL – change but not necessarily earth shattering. The two schools are within 2 miles & 5 mins or less of each other. Besides EL has a cematary in the back of it which always seemed odd placement of school to me anyway.
New middle school (King) – Now you have a BIG CHANGE!! The hike from neighborhoods served by Toomer & EL (an even to some extent Whiteford & Burgess) is significant compared to feeding those students into Coan.
New High School- All things being considered its less impactful than the Middle School change although likely equally less desireable for newly gentrafied residents who pride themselves on feeding into Grady currently.
Taken in sum total, there is good and bad in the proposed feeder cluster in question. Clearly Kirkwood/EL is taking on the chin
Brandy
March 5th, 2012
3:23 pm
I’ve always wondered what would happen if we shut down APS and sent the kids to their corresponding county schools. It’ll never happen, but might be interesting to see. Large metroplex city districts are largely failures across the board (Baltimore, Chicago, DC, New York, Los Angeles, Dallas, and so on and so on).
C Jae of EAV
March 5th, 2012
3:34 pm
@ Acer – Your suggested re-purposing of the old Howard Building makes more sence than busing Toomer, EL, Whiteford kids to King.
@ Raquel Morris – Its a travisity that under the Hall regime, millions were poured into new buildings for B.E.S.T & C.S King single gener academies both square within the Douglass zone (which itself saw a multi- million dollar upgrade). Both could have continued to operate out of surplus facilities which have sence been left to rot. It makes it extremely difficult to consider shuttering any of the 3 considering the recent investments made in them. Thrown in KIPP operating a charter high school (as I understand it) in the old Turner High building and now you have quite a log jam in that area of the city.
tony
March 5th, 2012
3:39 pm
if you have more than one child and cant afford private school the best thing you can do for you child is to sell your intown home and move to north fulton !! your childs education and overall saftey is more important than your easy commute to work. if you have not been up to johns creek and alpharetta lately it is EYE OPENING on how nice the schools and neighborhoods are it reminds you of atlanta 35 years ago… it wont be nice forever so while your children are young take advantage of the schools and the neighborhoods and move now while it is still nice and when your children are grown move out of atlanta all together…. now that is a plan!!!
KB
March 5th, 2012
3:51 pm
Really disappointed in E. Davis on this one. Some of these proposals don’t even pass the most basic of smell tests. Why will my kids have to go to a middle school miles away when Coan is virtually across the street? Guess it’s more important that Candler Park have a middle school all for themselves…in another neighborhood. CP kids are more than welcome to go to school with Kirkwood kids but not run them out of their school altogether. My face is still stinging from that smack.
PUDDING
March 5th, 2012
3:52 pm
What about the Buckhead SCHOOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Davis knows if he mess with them he will be in COURT. THE POOR CLASS NEED TO RAISE HELL!!!!!!!!AND STAND UP. Don’t let Davis move the lower class around but the rich stay put.
Thank You APS!
March 5th, 2012
3:59 pm
@ Shar -
You are correct regarding the limitations of vouchers in terms paying for quality private education. I only want to stop paying into a system that has largely disregarded and ignored the parents and educational quality of schools on the South side. I don’t want to take other tax payer’s money, I just want the system to stop taking my tax money and providing services that differ based upon geography. If I live on the North side of town, I expect the same water quality and service as I would get on the South side of town. If you can’t provide the same quality and service, then don’t make me pay for lesser service and quality.
You are also correct about Jackson HS and King MS implementing an IB curriculum going forward. My statement was really more about “why is this more rigorous standard only now making its way to these schools?” Again, a dual system serving no one for the better.
I currently have a student in private school (my child was threatened/harassed, as well). For the cost of having two students, I would rather move to another area with better public schools and devote those private school dollars towards the difference in housing and commuting costs.
Parent
March 5th, 2012
4:06 pm
@Shar 1:38 PM
13,000 extra seats reduced to 7,500 didn’t make sense to me either. Until I looked at the demographic data.
Total enrollment today = 47,196
Projected enrollment 2021-2022 = 52,846
Davis recommendation 60,000 – 7,200 = 52,800
Looks like it has the right amount of headroom built in for expected growth.
http://www.atlantapublicschools.us/cms/lib/GA01000924/Centricity/Domain/45/APS%202011_22%20Total%20District%20and%20SRT%20Enrollment%20Forecasts.pdf
Shar
March 5th, 2012
4:18 pm
@thank you, just fyi Walden was the only IB school for years that fed into North Atlanta, and in fact the IB program at North Atlanta was there to serve the Walden kids. I don’t know where else APS offered IB, and I know that the bureaucracy did its best several years ago to squash all IB as its existence (much like charter schools) was ‘different’ and thereby threatened to show up the approved curriculum. But it survived thanks to parent insistence, and had almost 100% black students to boot.
I am still not convinced that IB is better than AP-level classwork, which in my opinion should be robustly available at every APS high school and which to date is only sketchily offered. AP is much more useful to most students as it can save a great deal of college time and cost. However, if you are convinced that IB is the hallmark of quality curriculum, you should be aware that it was supported at “non-Northside” schools.
Taxes? On the North side, we pay more in property and sales taxes than we “get back” in services. Atlanta only receives about 65% of the state taxes and fees collected here. Services always differ based on geography, as taxing bodies try to fulfill needs. With schools getting the same per-pupil funding plus Title 1 and compensatory extras at the lower-performing schools, the better-performing ones end up with less per-pupil than those that struggle. The biggest difference is not money, but the expectations of the parents for their children’s work and success and parental involvement at the school.
Shar
March 5th, 2012
4:19 pm
Ah, parent, that does make better sense. Thanks for pointing that out.
Archdawg
March 5th, 2012
4:25 pm
Just one more item to reinforce me moving out of the City of Atlanta. Truly sad if Atlanta has even average schools the city would benefit greatly. It’s all just too much, there is no certainty anymore. After seeing Bev Hall and the gang run the system into the dirt all while getting major kudos and fat bonuses this just takes the cake.
cc
March 5th, 2012
4:57 pm
@ATLDawg, ya dig? What a surprise when you got your way you simply assumed no other parents were out fighting for their kids. What was left out of the “vocal minority” was the word wealthy. Money talks and it always has. It doesn’t really matter how many parents fought for Kirkwood/Edgewood/East Lake (and plenty did), our neighborhoods don’t have the money/clout to get themselves heard.
We’ve worked hard in this area to build strong neighborhoods around racial diversity. We’re some of the only areas in the APS that truly reflect the racial makeup of Atlanta. But I guess old habits die hard elsewhere. The lily white children north of Dekalb Ave. are going to have to come to our neighborhood, but only if they don’t have to go to school with our kids. It’s shameful that separate but equal is still the way of our world.
I had hoped Atlanta was better than that.
To Thank you APS gm
March 5th, 2012
5:12 pm
Thank you,
You wrote “Handing Coan MS to my affluent neighbors North of DeKalb Avenue….”
I am that neighbor you speak of and I can speak for all of us North of Dekalb…we don’t want to go to Coan. You can likely keep Coan because we don’t want to go there and yes, of course, we are preparing for battle.
GM
Intown Parent is Right
March 5th, 2012
5:18 pm
Intown Parent is right. Heshe said “I fully expect the howling to begin (have started already -?) for Howard to be converted for that purpose.”
It already started last night, as soon as the results came out. We North of Dekalb avenuers are already organized and will continue to fight the steady efforts of APS to push us south of the border into Coan.
So Kirkwood, yes, please push back at APS and say you want to stay in COan and not get pushed down to King MS because we North of Dekalbers sure do not want Coan. Coan is the big bad wolf everyone is afraid of. With horrible scores and later, horrific cheating and the ever-present crime-ridden neighborhood, trust me, no one of us above Dekalb wants to go there.
GM
To CC
March 5th, 2012
5:27 pm
Cc you wrote “We’ve worked hard in this area to build strong neighborhoods around racial diversity. We’re some of the only areas in the APS that truly reflect the racial makeup of Atlanta.”
Reflecting the racial makeup of Atlanta is not a goal to be proud of in my mind. I speak for others too. A real goal is simply the quality of education. To start with, we have to have quality teachers with integrity. Both Toomer and Coan had horrible cheating scores (21% and around 50%). Those teachers who cheated, lied and stole are still “teaching” in those schools. So you can have all the diversity you like; you can have a brand new building; you can have a state of the art computer system but if the teachers are croooked, you have nothing.
Wealthy parents and students don’t want to attend any scandal school. We North of Dekalbers would much rather stay in our overcrowded 75 year old school and slap trailers out in the yard rather than risk our child’s education and well-being to those dishonest, lying, cheating teachers and administrators.
It’s not about race. It’s not about wealth. It’s about integrity.
GM
chillywilly
March 5th, 2012
5:55 pm
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again; Erroll Davis is no different than Beverly Hall. Davis talks a good talk, but in my opinion, he’s nothing but a weak wimp. I watched him on TV talking about the emails that he received (protecting my country club, etc.) and how he thank God for spam filters. It’s obvious that the Chamber of Commerce controls him.
Mike
March 5th, 2012
6:03 pm
It is amazing how people in kirkwood are so upset over Coan. It is/was a crappy school that nobody would choose for their child to willingly attend. Good riddance.
The people on here complaining would never have sent their child there anyway. Nobody from the Edgewood neighborhood right next door is complaining.
Squeaky Wheel Gets the Grease
March 5th, 2012
6:06 pm
It is going to be hard to keep Coan and King open. Once you remove the Inman feeder schools, there simply aren’t 1250 students left. Middle schools need just over 600 to earn an assistant principal slot – a goal of this redistricting. Toomer families, maybe you should fight to keep the 6th grade academy at Coan and ask to join the Grady cluster???
Simmer Down
March 5th, 2012
6:10 pm
Face the facts people – schools have to close. When that happens people get upset. Overall the plan seems like a step in the right direction. The same kids going to elementary stay with the same kids all the way through high school. Very good idea. I agree the Kirkwood folks got messed up but we welcome you to King with the hopes you take all this frustration and put it to good use making it a great place. We – the people south of 20 – welcome your help in the battle to make our schools better (and accountable). I look forward to the day when Maynard Jackson is the best high school in the system with the help of Kirkwood, East Atlanta, Grant Park, Ormewood and the rest.
cc
March 5th, 2012
6:10 pm
Sorry GM, but if you can say, “Reflecting the racial makeup of Atlanta is not a goal to be proud of in my mind. I speak for others too,” then I find it hard to believe it’s not about race. We love our racially mixed neighborhoods and they’re no more crime ridden than yours. That’s just white fright.
We would love to have great schools in our neighborhood and in fact, Drew Charter School is doing very well. But our kids are not getting kicked out of Coan, they’re getting kicked our of Inman and Grady and the idea that parents here don’t care about their child’s education is ridiculous. And no one is handing you guys Coan in it’s current iteration. They’re just going to use the building so your kids can go to a brand spanking new academy while kids who live across the street have to go somewhere south of I-20. That’s integrity? And you’re telling me a brand new school with brand new teachers for Inman’s sixth grade is not being opposed because you guys north of Dekalb don’t want to cross into an area that looks more like Atlanta than Iowa?
Part of this whole redistricting was supposed to include not sending any child to a worse school than they were currently attending. Jackson is demonstrably worse than Grady and wherever they’re planning to send our kids to middle school you can bet it’s worse than Inman. So just stop your whining. You know they’re going to take care of you guys in the end.
Top School
March 5th, 2012
6:11 pm
@ ChillyWilly – I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again; Erroll Davis is no different than Beverly Hall. Davis talks a good talk, but in my opinion, he’s nothing but a weak wimp. I watched him on TV talking about the emails that he received (protecting my country club, etc.) and how he thank God for spam filters. It’s obvious that the Chamber of Commerce controls him.
YES, we’ve said this almost 10 years ago…Same beat…different day.
Simmer Down
March 5th, 2012
6:22 pm
One other point – I grew up in Atlanta. Grady was the armpit of schools when I was a kid. We use to play basketball against them and we hated to go there. Now people fight to go there because the school has been reborn. There really is not a difference between Grady then and Maynard and King now. What causes change is parental involvement. Look – we are getting a new high school (Maynard) with an IB program. We have a chance to set the course. Please stop complaining and start caring and we can make it better than Grady. Get on board the bus – sorry Kirkwood for the pun.
Atlanta Mom
March 5th, 2012
6:23 pm
You know, 30 years ago, people didn’t want their children at Grady. But, 30 years ago, brave neighborhood parents, went to their elementary schools and said: you will educate our children, and we’ll make sure you do. As those children continued upward, those parents maintained their vigilance. Maybe, the fine parents of Kirkwood, Toomer and Eastlake need to do the same thing.
bearcatn8
March 5th, 2012
6:28 pm
Can someone please explain to me why it is “racist” or “segregationist” for families to want to keep Inman as is as opposed to sending their kids to Coan? According to greatschools.org, Inman middle (where Lin families want to stay) is 51% african american (state average 38%), 42% caucasion (state average 46%), and 5% hispanic (state average 10%).
In other words, Inman Middle made up of a majority of African American/Hispanic students. How exactly is wanting to stay there “segregationist?”
FYI – here is the website where my stats came from: http://www.greatschools.org/cgi-bin/ga/other/35#toc
Positive
March 5th, 2012
6:29 pm
While we are being distracted by the demographic study, Karen Waldon is silently creating new positions to the tune of at least 1/2 million dollars for 4 newly created jobs. They will be blindly approved by the board tonight with no questions, just as they did with Hall. Yet another layer of padding for the CLL and another version of the Friends and Family program. We are being duped and distracted while business as usual goes on at the central office. The people who should be angry are the teachers…they haven’t had a raise in about 4-5 years and have been frozen on their steps for 3 or more years. How does Erroll and Company justify hiring these 6-figure salary people when he is furloughing? Inquiring minds want to know…
Atlanta Mom
March 5th, 2012
6:54 pm
It was about six years ago, when Crim HS was closed as a traditional HS, that parts of Kirkwood and Toomer were zoned to the Grady Cluster. At the junction, many Grady parents objected for this exact reason. The school was not big enough to hold everybody. APS didn’t want to hear it, and so they didn’t. So, it’s not like Kirkwood was and forever has been part of Grady. It’s a recent development.
Enough Already
March 5th, 2012
7:03 pm
I’m so tired of hearing the parents north of DeKalb threaten to move or go to private school. If private school was an option for them, they would have enrolled their children a long time ago and wouldn’t be spending countless hours on blogs degrading other neighborhoods (@ GM)
APS isn’t a world-class school system and Lin and the other “high-performing” schools are just the lesser of the evils. Truly wealthy parents aren’t “preparing for battle” because their kids are already in private school and have been since they moved in-town. North of DeKalb parents are scared that they may have bit off more than they can chew (mortgage + private school tuition = living check to check).
Just move. Someone will buy your house and make due with the school options. The suburbs awaits you.
Mike's excellent point
March 5th, 2012
7:47 pm
Mike, you made an excellent point that “It is amazing how people in kirkwood are so upset over Coan. It is/was a crappy school that nobody would choose for their child to willingly attend. Good riddance.”
….only the alternative, King MS is even more wretched than Coan (hard to imagine I realize) but Coan and King are like the turds in the punchbowl. No one wants the drink that punch (Coan) and nobody wants to ear that turd (King).
ew.
GM
Enougher Already
March 5th, 2012
7:49 pm
@Enough Already
And I am so tired of hearing South of Dekalb parents demand that NoD parents send their kids to failing and underutilized schools to “fix” those schools (as if such an approach would work, which it wouldn’t). You want my chilren to go to one of the schools SoD? Fine, first convince the families in YOUR community to go there. Once you have done that, we can talk about poaching kids from NoD schools.
To Enough Already
March 5th, 2012
7:55 pm
EAlready, Hi, I’m GM.
You made me laugh. You said “I’m so tired of hearing the parents north of DeKalb threaten to move or go to private school. If private school was an option for them, they would have enrolled their children a long time ago and wouldn’t be spending countless hours on blogs degrading other neighborhoods (@ GM)”
Private school is an option for many of us — I’ve already paid for my kids to go to private school next year because I didn’t know the outcome of this debacle…and I think you are trying to suggest that we don’t have enough money to do so. What you underestimate is first of all, many of us don’t flaunt what we have. We spend our money on intangible things and unlike our showy counterparts, we don’t spend it on cars and Juicy Couture jeans and purses and we don’t spend our money on Gosh-awful two inch acrylic nails with tacky airbrush.
We do what we have to do to provide our children with an education.
….but we don’t have to debate it. The proof is in the demographics. In the 70s, Inman Park, a former glorious, rich, neighborhood became a bonafide slum….because of the schools. People left for the suburbs.
If you don’t know your history, you’ll be forced to repeat it.
People may still live intown until they sell their homes but they will either go private, form a charter, homeschool, hire a governess or rent an apartment in Dekalb county schools and drop off and pick up.
People who really care about education (like we Northern Dekalbers) will do anything to provide a better education for our children and I am sure you will never understand that fundamental difference between truly educated individuals and parents…and the rest of you.
GM
Kirkwood dad
March 5th, 2012
7:57 pm
@Mike You’re 100% correct… not a chance I’d ever send my kids to such a crap school anyway. The reality is I made the choice to send my kids to private school the day I bought my house in Kirkwood. The biggest problem is that the value of my already-upside down house is going to drop even more. I guess I’ll be appealing my property taxes AGAIN this year…
Howard?
March 5th, 2012
8:11 pm
Have any of you ever been inside the Howard building? I can’t believe it is still standing. NO WAY can kids go there. It would have to be gutted and rebuilt. Why would APS build a new building with plenty of buildings avail? What about Cook? It’s maybe a mile and some change from there.
yes i am worried
March 5th, 2012
8:15 pm
Maureen
Is there anyway you can block Good Mother’s comments? (I so don’t have a dog in this fight.) I think she has to be one of the nastiest people I have ever read on blogs.
Just wondering.
Agree with Yes I am Worried
March 5th, 2012
8:35 pm
I agree. GM has stated that her kids are going to private school. If you’ve left the public schools, please leave the conversation. If you choose to participate, at least make constructive comments.
Enough Already
March 5th, 2012
8:42 pm
@GM
Reading is fundamental! Not once did I say I want you to send your kids SOD. I said, “MOVE to the suburbs.” It’s evident you cannot afford private school because if you could you wouldn’t be wasting your time on the blogs screaming louder than everyone else.
You are not the “great white hope.” SOD doesn’t need you to save them. Get off your raggedy pedestal and tend to your kids. I’m sure they want to spend some quality time with their “good mother.”
Lastly, I don’t live SOD.
Good night.
Enough Already
March 5th, 2012
8:45 pm
Correction. @Enougher already not GM. You all sound the same.
To Toomer Parent
March 5th, 2012
8:46 pm
TP you write “The Inman 6th grade academy proposal taking over the Coan MS building is a gerrymandered mess serving the interests of Candler Park and Candler Park only….”
Candler Park is not served by this gerrymandered mess. CP doesn’t want it. I also doesn’t disserve CP only. It’s all of the Lin communities of Lake Claire, Inman Park and Candler Park who might be zoned for Coan as a 6th academy…but….no one at Lin wants that Coan option. We didn’t ask for it and we don’t want it. It came out of nowhere. We want to stay north of Dekalb avenue….even if it means parking our kids in a trailer. Please fight to keep Coan in your cluster because the three hoods of CP, LC and IP, sure don’t want Coan.
GM
Teacher2
March 5th, 2012
8:54 pm
@yes i am worried
Many people on this blog have asked that same question.
Shirley U Jest
March 5th, 2012
8:55 pm
All Kirkwood wanted was to keep the neighborhood together…and now they have their wish. Perhaps all that talk of standing strong to change the quality of Coan was exactly what the APS appreciated and desired…except at a different middle school. Bet in hindsight that that neighborhood split wasn’t so bad after all. Be careful what you wish for.
To Agree with....
March 5th, 2012
9:02 pm
Agree with you wrote “If you’ve left the public schools, please leave the conversation.”
Whether or not my children go to school here, I am a property owner and have a dog in this fight. If you don’t like the conversation, please don’t read it. I always sign my posts as Gm or good mother or good ma. Just scroll down to see the signature.
As far as you requirming me to say something constructive, OK, here goes something constructive….
Take to the streets in protest. There is enough money for all of our schools and it is being wasted by a bloated, corrupt school board. Exercise your rights and grab your picket signs and demand change. Flock to charter schools. Demand APS break up into smaller more manageable, more accountable districts.
How’s that?
GM
Don't Feed the Good Mother Troll
March 5th, 2012
9:31 pm
This blogger is a troll. Loves to cyberbait the teachers reading this. No matter what the topic, he/she will have an experience relevant to it. In several blogs back abt. the new DeKalb superintendent and the DeKalb SPLOST, GM wrote endlessly abt. his/her bad experiences with DeKalb schools. Here, it’s the APS schools. On blogs abt. charter schools, he/she has kids going to charters. Several months ago, wrote sob stories about his/her present poverty. Now it’s private school for the kids. Needs the attention….don’t feed.
Wondering Allowed
March 5th, 2012
9:58 pm
Mr. Davis – Shame on you. Shame on you. Clearing our neighborhood school of all the “undesirables” so that it’s lily clean enough for those in the “better” neighborhoods to send their kids here.
And, by the way, it would have been nice if at tonight’s meeting, you at least acted like you were listening to the speakers, instead of chatting with the man next to you, reading papers, rubbing your eyes and playing with your shoe.
Mr. Davis, had people not fought against this type of discrimination, you wouldn’t be an Acting Superintendent of Schools, you’d be a janitor at a segregated school, if you were lucky. Many years ago, thoughtful, intelligent people recognized the errors of that type of thinking. It’s unbelievable to see that you somehow missed that message.
Even South Africa abolished Apartheid years ago. I guess APS is the last bastion of this type of thinking. Again, Mr. Davis, you should be very ashamed. Your actions are disgusting.
Wondering Allowed
March 5th, 2012
10:06 pm
Oh, and let me point out, at tonight’s meeting, there was no outcry from the Inman parents about their kids crossing the railroad tracks now that the undesirables were being tossed from Coan. There was one very tepid suggestion made from a woman who was verbally Frenching the board that the only thing she could suggest to improve on the wonderful work she felt the board did was to use Howard instead of Coan for the sixth graders.
It’s as though the dangerous railroad tracks that were a huge issue last week disappeared now that Uncle Tom Davis took care of the real problem.
Thank You APS!
March 5th, 2012
10:33 pm
@GM -
I know my North of Dekalb Ave neighbors don’t want to attend Coan MS, that’s why those neighborhoods organized and fought like hell to keep their zone relatively intact. I’m also fully aware of the correlation between household income and student performance, so there’s nothing new on the table there. Could not an alternative solution to overcrowding at Inman MS would be have Mary Lin feed into Coan? They are roughly a mile apart as opposed to the two mile difference between Mary Lin and Inman.
Squeaky Wheel Gets the Grease
March 5th, 2012
10:36 pm
@ Positive – you are right… this is a better story.
It is interesting to me that NOT ONE of the five new positions under Karen Waldon were filled with people in APS. There are some honest, smart, dedicated folks in the district who should be given a second look (especially considering we’re already paying for their administrative salaries) instead of bringing in from Newton, Fulton, DeKalb, and Henry Co. This happened with an AP job earlier this year that wasn’t posted – hire from Cobb Co.
What happens when Davis leaves in a year? Will these people remain in these positions, or as I suspect, be replaced with Friends and Family members following the new Superintendent? I’m not sure I 100% trust people who are using this district as their stepping stones to something else in a year (or worse yet, padding their retirement accounts with the inflated salaries APS loves to pay).
I think everyone working for APS who is already an administrator should be worried about job security, and those who want to move up might need to look elsewhere. I know I am. It seems the only people who may actually be safe in all of this are the teachers.
Mike
March 5th, 2012
10:51 pm
@wondering ….. That kind of rhetoric is not appropriate. Please keep the race baiting out of this forum.
Wondering Allowed
March 5th, 2012
11:19 pm
@Mike – It’s race and economics. Are we supposed to act as though it isn’t? Or should we call it out for what it is? Nobody every cured cancer by ignoring the tumors. The truth is the truth, Mike. The affluent areas got all they wanted while the less affluent areas were broadsided with closures that had never been suggested before. The truth is the people who complained about crossing the tracks were silent tonight. The tracks didn’t disappear. the geography is the same. The only thing that changed is the removal of the local kids from the Coan classrooms.
The proposal put forth today is shameful. No African American speakers got up at tonight’s meeting and supported Mr. Davis. Are we to ignore that? Is my pointing that out race baiting? No. It’s the plan itself that was designed to race bait. Again, Mr. Davis should be very ashamed.
Mike
March 5th, 2012
11:34 pm
@wondering…Mr. Davis tried to help all groups I believe. You said that he didn’t help any black people but that is not true. O4W was helped significantly and it was mainly due to activism within the black community.
Coan had become such a mess there was little choice but to close it down. It was a cess pool. That cluster could not get it together. That is where your anger should be directed.
Please don’t make this racial. Nobody likes where that eventually leads us.
Squeaky Wheel Gets the Grease
March 5th, 2012
11:54 pm
@ Wondering – Davis is trying to keep those with options (private or City Schools of Decatur) in the district at the expense of those with fewer options (charter schools, many of which do not provide transportation to and from school). More students = more per pupil allotment from the state. Otherwise, in a few short years we’ll be right back to this point – tons of empty seats.
I’m not supporting this thinking, but it is the reality APS faces. That and a budget nightmare on the horizon due to the cheating scandal, Hall’s legal bills, and the lawsuits I’m sure are looming from students and teachers alike. At some point the district has to make a fiscally responsible decision or I guess go bankrupt!
Wondering Allowed
March 5th, 2012
11:54 pm
@Mike – Coan is in the midst of a turnaround that was just starting to show results. The Emory program, the Chinese classes and increased community involvement are to be thrown away so that the people at Mary Linn don’t have to attend classes with the kids who now go to Coan.
The community was taking the right steps. There is no doubt there. The district just ignored those facts in favor of pleasing the Inman people. That’s a fact. Don’t try to whitewash the truth.
Under what logic are we to be blamed for not fighting for something that had never been previously mentioned? Mr. Davis intentionally didn’t let word about Coan get out because he didn’t want community comment. He has lied to us. He has been deceitful. The fault belongs squarely at his feet, not at the feet of the people he deceived. He did not act honorably, truthfully or fairly.
And by the way, has anyone calculated how much all this busing will cost when gas reaches $6/gallon?
Wondering Allowed
March 5th, 2012
11:57 pm
@Squeaky Wheel – On what planet do you live that you think City of Decatur schools is an option for those on the east side of Atlanta? Even if they were accepting out of district students, the tuition is steep, there is no transportation to the schools (most people in our neighborhoods rely on public transportation) and there is no guaranty that a student who starts in Decatur will be able to attend the next year.
Squeaky Wheel Gets the Grease
March 6th, 2012
12:04 am
@ Wondering – When I mentioned CSD, I’m thinking of the Lin community, not those on the east side of Atlanta. Lin parents made it very clear that they would leave APS (private or Decatur) instead of going to Coan. Buckhead essentially did the same thing when the demographers started redrawing their lines. That’s why the demographers eventually stated to leave the schools in the North Atlanta cluster alone.
Davis knows some segments have greater means to leave APS than others, and he is bending to them. Charter schools aren’t an obvious answer for those stuck with longer commutes because many of them do not offer transportation.
I honestly think we agree, but my previous comment may not have been clear.
Marko
March 6th, 2012
5:18 am
Everyone will whine because their school is being shut down. The school board will cave. They will run out of money and need more but won’t be able to close schools, it’s easier to replace a superintendent than close schools. It plays out just about the same no matter the school system, no matter where in the county it is.
concerned
March 6th, 2012
6:26 am
To the parents? writers who are questioning the now current roll out of IB to other schools. IB has not been as widely accepted into colleges in the US and there was very little buy in from school districts to take on this with the overwhelming advantage that Advanced Placement/College Board had/has. It is a great curriculum but the tests are more expensive than AP and the diploma program is requires that students take on 8 college level classes, required outside of school activities and an extended research paper that is done outside of school. Comparisons between AP, where students can play to their strengths and choose to take the AP classes that they are motivated in, is different than the IB where being well rounded in all subjects is the expectation means that not every school would or should sign on to that. IB has grown its market share in the US recently and implementation of the IB and the feeder schools takes a fair amount of time and support from administration. That it is growing now is kudos to admins who are supportive of that rigor as opposed to focusing on the self congratulatory test scores. IB is not for everyone so it shouldn’t necessarily be at every school. College Board and IB do not make good bedfellows so it is better that school have a choice on which direction that college level focus should be, IB lower level schools allow for implementation of the IB philosophy but are not a requirement and are not necessarily better or worse than any of the other elementary and middle schools. The strength of a school starts with parents, teachers and admins and will flourish regardless. That IB was not available earlier has alot of to do with how IB was viewed in the US and the limited acceptablility for the IB scores at the college level. AP got you credit while equivalent scores in IB were not considered.That is slowly changing.
To Wondering Aloud
March 6th, 2012
6:35 am
WA you write “The truth is the people who complained about crossing the tracks were silent tonight.”
I am one that complained about crossing the tracks and I have been very vocal. I am sure you are aware of that fact.
We Nortf of Deklalbers didn’t get all that we wanted. We didn’t ask for Coan and we don’t want Coan, even when populated by all of we in the North of Dekalb neighborhoods. The objections are the same as before: dangerous traffic, crime-ridden neighborhood, dishonest teachers. All those things still haven’t changes, as you have noted. And our stance hasn’t change, which you won’t acknowledge.
No on Coan.
No way.
No how.
It’s that simple.
Either APS provides an alternative (even Errol mentioned Howard as one) or we won’t go.
So, fight for Coan, please. Make a big stink about it. March and protest how you want to keep your school, it just makes it easier for we North of Dekalbers. GM
yes i am worried
March 6th, 2012
6:48 am
Decatur isn’t taking tuition students next year at least for elementary school.
Wondering Allowed
March 6th, 2012
7:05 am
@Squeaky Wheel – Candler Park parents, by and large, do not have the means to send their kids to private school. Assuming two children, if the parents in Candler Park had that kind of money, they wouldn’t be living in Candler Park; they’d be living in Druid Hills or Decatur. Lake Claire, too. These are upper middle class neighborhoods.
According to 2009 figures on City-Data.com, the median household income in Candler Park is just $83k. That’s hardly enough to afford $45k to pay for private school for a couple kids. LC is higher, at $94k. While there may be some that could swing raising a family and paying for private school, that’s the extreme minority, not a significant majority.
While they might have the means to afford Decatur schools, Decatur doesn’t want them. The City of Decatur has enough children whose parents have chosen to live in Decatur.
Doris M.
March 6th, 2012
8:28 am
It’s always difficult to close neighborhood schools, but it must be done. Schools that are half full or less than half full need to be closed as its a drain on the taxpayer. While I would not like to see schools that are overcrowded, there is a happy medium in there somewhere.
Brit
March 6th, 2012
8:37 am
Yes, that is one of the reason we didn’t buy a house in CP. it would have been cheaper, but the place seems over-run with self-entitled bigots. I can’t think of anything worse than having to live next door to someone like GM.
Decatur City Schools are only allowing applications from tuition students for grade 6 and above this year, and really that just applies to the 150 already in the system. Most of them started in Kindergarten years ago, so the city is trying to let them finish their schooling in Decatur schools ( they have to reapply each year). There is no chance of anyone from the Lin community getting a place.
frustrated APS mom
March 6th, 2012
9:13 am
People will find creative ways to make things work. We are in Buckhead and we are one of those families that certainly can’t afford over $40k a year to send both of our kids to private school but we have decided that we can make it work for the oldest to go to private next year for middle school. It won’t be easy but we can do it. I suspect there are many like us. Middle school is the weak link around here so we will duck out for a few years and revisit the public school when we see how the new high school is doing. The young one is doing just fine in our elementary. I think this is the way it will be for this generation of kids. The parents can’t easily sell their houses and move around for school, so they will hobble along using a mix of public and private and figure it out as they go.
decaturparent
March 6th, 2012
9:18 am
To those who think City Schools of Decatur is an option. Sorry folks…. Decatur is full up. They can hardly handle the residents within the city. They just built a huge new school last year and will be opening another school next year most likely as several of its elementary schools still have trailers. Decatur is not taking tuition students in K-5 next year and gives no guarantees for middle and high school students from year to year. To rely on attending CSD is not a good idea.
Atlanta Mom
March 6th, 2012
10:36 am
Wondering Allowed
You said “Coan is in the midst of a turnaround that was just starting to show results. The Emory program, the Chinese classes and increased community involvement ”
And you can’t take that to your new school?
anon
March 6th, 2012
11:12 am
This MES family is relieved by the proposal, not happy with it. The mentions of K and 5/6 academies really worried us. That would be a deal-breaker for us and cause us to opt out of APS altogether. Objectively, adding transitions is bad for kids, and I believe it would be particularly bad for our shy kid. We’re unhappy with the 6th grade academy, too, and certainly with the location, but at least we get to use MES. We’ll head to private school after that. (I suspect that the percentage of families from MES and Va-HI who opt out after 5th grade is going to go way up.) This whole process (at least as it relates to the Grady cluster) has been driven by the fears and strident demands of a single neighborhood. If APS comes to its senses and creates a second middle school feeder for Grady before our oldest finishes 5th grade, we’ll be back. We are not worried about who feeds the school, so long as it is proximate to MES and of a reasonable size. Otherwise, we prefer the size and stability private schools offer. We’ll miss the diversity of an urban public school district, though. Truth be told, I’m quite jealous of the East Lake and Grant Park families that have access to neighborhood K-8 charter schools. Or maybe we’ll sell our MES-neighborhood house and move to City of Decatur, where we can buy a nice new construction house for substantially less than our house is worth. That sounds pretty enticing, but I suspect we’ll stay put as long as MES stays K-5 and we get into a good private school after that.
C Jae of EAV
March 6th, 2012
12:09 pm
So the proposal is to close a school designed to hold 900 kids so you can house a 6th grade academy that will serve about as many students as it currently serves (approx 300), which is already deemed under utilization of the property?? And in the process of the aforementioned you bus the former Coan kids 3 neighborhoods over across the interstate, through the thick of eastside rush hour traffic (on both surface streets & the highway) and into a building that will essentially be busting at the seems, as it will be at or near capacity as a result of the shift in students proposed! Sorry something in that equation doesn’t add up to me. Could not the old Walden Middle school property be used as overflow to house a the proposed Inman aux 6th grade academy instead of leveraging Coan for that purpose? Could the old Hope elementary building be used (which is currently being occupied by a charter school that was originally planning to use facilities at the old nursing school @ the Atlanta Medical Center). I say all that to say with all the property APS is sitting on? There are some options here…
Meanwhile across town because of mal-investment, you’re forced to maintain 3 high schools (Douglas, BEST Academy & CS King Academy) that are in a triangle 2 miles from each other, all essentially poaching the same dwindling population base. With BEST & CS KING supported by 2 elementary schools that split into 2 separate middle schools (as BEST & CS King are single gender academies). Huh? Clearly APS is struggling trying to make sence of the mess they have made from earlier facilities master plans on every side of town.
The redistricting effort is uncovering a truly a sad state of affairs. When you rise above the emotion of the circumstance you will find that APS has a glut of property holdings (inclusive of a lot of rotting vacent buildings closed in previous redistricting efforts) and has invested tens of millions into building / revenvating schools within the last 10 years that could have been better spent. The proposed move will add even more to the glut of property they’re sitting on and likely result in even more mal-investment in new construction.
Response to Anon
March 6th, 2012
12:44 pm
@Anon – if you don’t like transitions forget Decatur schools. They have a grade configuration similar to what APS is considering. They have K-3 and then a 4/5 school… and then on to middle school. I have a friend who has kids there and says it’s really chaotic having the kids switch schools to frequently.
FYI
March 6th, 2012
12:50 pm
@ Good Mother. On this blog on Mar. 5, 7:55 pm and Mar. 6, 6:55 am, you refer to “we Northern DeKalbers,” and also mention that next year your children are going to a private school. Yet on the Aug. 17, 2011 blog, “Building a Foundation: Beverly Hall and APS Cheating” you wrote:
To Really Amazed from Good Mother, August 18th, 2011, 11:07 am: “Really Amazed writes “I still can’t understand why parents are willing to subject their child to this type of education. There are far too many other options for all!!!!” I’m really amazed, Really Amazed, that you think we have far too many other options. Let’ see, a private education, not even in my reach. Move? Sure, it’s so easy to sell and profit off of an underwater house. I can’t help it the economy and housing market took a nose dive. I also have to work. No stay at home mom stuff for me. That means I have to live within a reasonable commuting distance to my office or I won’t be raising the very children I brought into the world.”
Do you live in the APS district, or in Northern DeKalb? How can you afford private school? And HOW can you blog continuously during the day if you work in an office and are not a stay-home mom?
As Shakespeare wrote: Something’s rotten in the state of Denmark.
Brit
March 6th, 2012
12:52 pm
@anon if you object to 5/6 academies you certainly shouldn’t move to Decatur, where all the kids feed into a 4/5 academy and have done for years. It works very well but is obviously a ‘deal-breaker’ for you.
anon
March 6th, 2012
1:28 pm
I know Decatur schools have that configuration. That’s why we decided against Decatur in the first place. We really liked it otherwise, and the home prices are fantastic. I would consider Decatur for post-5th grade, but, as I said, if we had lost a k-5 option in MES, we would have gone straight to . a private K-12. What’s lost in all this is that a lot of people around here aren’t that thrilled with Inman as it is. A lot of people are on the fence. Any change that makes Inman less desirable will push more people who have options into private schools or to Cobb/Decatur. That may be what APS wants, but it will have an impact on Inman/Grady.
Another FYI re GM
March 6th, 2012
1:36 pm
And I’m tired of hearing about GM’s alleged payment of tuition for her kids to attend private school next year. I’m knee-deep in it right now, and I can assure you that the private school application process in the Atlanta area is quite regimented. Just about all Atlanta-area private schools belong to the Atlanta Area Association of Independent Schools (every private school I’ve ever heard of is a member of AAAIS), and all AAAIS-member schools must adhere to the same calendar for the admissions process. Letters of acceptance for the 2012-2013 school year do not go out until April 6th. Hhhmmm.
Concerned
March 6th, 2012
3:27 pm
With 42% utilization and a 59 on the cheating scandal which is flagged as severe concern – why is whitefoord staying open?
Dekalbite
March 6th, 2012
4:49 pm
Probably no APS parents want to hear this, but if you take a look at the expenditure on non teaching personnel in APS, you will see how far out of line they are with respect to the rest of the metro area and indeed the entire state of Georgia. Look at the webpage link below.
http://archives.gadoe.org/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=102&CountyId=761&T=1&FY=2011
Your Teacher to Staff (non teaching certified personnel) ratio is 5:1. That means for every 6 employees certified to teach in APS, 1 does not teach students. You spend $44,000,000 on Administrators and $23,000,000 on Support. Your employees that are certified to teach but never teach a child consume $67,000,000 a year of tax dollars. Teachers cost you $218,000,000. 24% of your personnel cost for certified employees is for employees who never teach a child. These non teaching employees who are certified to teach cost around $1,400 per pupil a year.
I’m all for consolidating and closing schools if that makes sense for students. But it seems to me that getting a handle on admin and support cost should be the FIRST consideration. That seems to be the last ditch effort AFTER as many students are crammed into a class as possible and as many schools are closed as the BOE finds politically feasible. Increasing class sizes and closing neighborhood schools should be done ONLY after non teaching personnel are cut, consolidated and outsourced as much as possible.
Just reducing your non teaching certified personnel by 10% would save almost $7,000,000. Exactly how much is going to be saved by closing these 13 schools?
Every cost saving decision in this recession seems to entail impacting students while preserving adult jobs. Students always see to be the last consideration.
Atlanta Mom
March 6th, 2012
5:57 pm
anon,
You might be surprised at just how resilient your children are. My experience is that the parents have a lot more trouble with “transitions” than their students do.
Atlanta Mom
March 6th, 2012
6:00 pm
As for GM, seems I’ve heard her/him bemoan the hour drive to/from school. And how she taught them in the car while she was driving, and by the time she got home she only had time to feed, bath and send them to bed.
So, I was surprised when she talked about living in town. Most of us don’t travel an hour to work.
Wondering Allowed
March 6th, 2012
6:00 pm
@Atlanta Mom – The foundations and organizations that have made contributions of time, effort and money at Coan have indicated they are not inclined to move. That’s out of our hands. The community, as opposed to the parents, will not be interested in investing time and effort in a school on the other side of town. It’s one thing to work within the community. It’s another thing to work in someone else’s community.
Also, the East Atlanta neighborhoods will lose many of the families with school aged children. Who would want to commit to a neighborhood where the kids spend hours and hours each week commuting to a school that is across town? The new families needed to join in the effort won’t be moving into the neighborhood.
While this might be palpable if it Coan were closing, the idea that kids from another neighborhood will be bused in to get what is likely a superior educational experience is the real crime. Why would anybody in the neighborhood want to invest time or energy in an organization that treats us like lessers?
Seriously, if APS told you they were going to use your local school for kids from a more affluent neighborhood, but your kids are being cleared out to make room for the other kids, you’d go ballistic, too. You have to wonder what is going through Davis’ head. How can he possibly think this is acceptable? Why is he wasting resources on the inevitable court case that will clearly show him it’s not acceptable? If he thinks this is acceptable, perhaps he should offer to reimburse APS for any legal fees incurred should a court rule otherwise!
Atlanta Mom
March 6th, 2012
6:10 pm
Wondering Allowed,
It is outlandish that Coan would be closed for the neighborhood so other neighborhoods can bus their children in.
How much farther is the new school-both miles and time? Thanks
To Atlanta Mom
March 6th, 2012
6:15 pm
You wrote “So, I was surprised when she talked about living in town. Most of us don’t travel an hour to work.”
…but I do. Why is that so hard to believe? Metro Atlanta is huge. I live intown and have to commute south of the city.
….but that’s not your point, is it? You just want to discredit me in any way you can.
Well, go for it. I don’t mind.
GM
To FYI
March 6th, 2012
6:19 pm
Do you live in the APS district, or in Northern DeKalb?
I live n the APS district North of Dekalb avenue.
How can you afford private school?
It’s parochial. The church kicks in part.
And HOW can you blog continuously during the day if you work in an office and are not a stay-home mom?
A laptop is a wonderful thing.
GM
Atl Parent
March 6th, 2012
6:24 pm
I understand why Kirkwood residents are angry. I would be too were I in their position: none of the previous six proposals had mentioned the possibility of closing Coan. It seemed to come from out of the blue.
That said, the school is not being closed so that Kirkwood’s northern neighbors can use it as a sixth grade academy. Indeed, I’m pretty sure that will never happen, given the reasonable objections that Morningside and VaHi are already voicing. (Oh, and just to be clear, there is a need for a sixth grade academy because O4W is–correctly–being brought into the Inman/Grady cluster…a move that *increases* economic and racial diversity in a cluster that is already diverse).
Coan is closing because it is dramatically under capacity. Should it be? I don’t know. But if it does close it is *not*–as Davis clearly said–so that it can be used as a 6th grade academy.
bu2
March 6th, 2012
6:58 pm
If Inman is 51% African American, it seems like adding O4W would decrease racial diversity.
There’s a big misperception that the northern schools are all white when they are the only diverse schools in Atlanta or Dekalb.
Wait and see
March 6th, 2012
9:11 pm
@bu2, shhh….nobody wants to hear the truth. The truth is inconvenient to their feelings of moral superiority and self-righteousness.
tjatl
March 7th, 2012
12:12 am
The reason you haven’t heard much from people north of Dekalb (besides GM) about using Coan as a 6th grade academy site for the Grady cluster is that we’re all still trying to process this. Totally out of left field. Makes sense in a facilities utilization sort of way I suppose, but the logistical issues still remain. And on top of that, it “squats” in another neighborhood.
It is not easy to cross the tracks at congested hours of the day (and yes, I’m talking cars) unless you’re on the far eastern portion of Candler Park and Lake Claire, and even then there are only a couple of crossings. I fully expect those south of DeKalb to flame me on that, but it’s just true. Yes, I go to Target, but not every day and not during rush hour. It wasn’t easy to get to Jackson HS for the last SRT-3 public meeting (Krog St tunnel was backed up).
I don’t think anyone north of the tracks has any desire to “take” Edgewood/Kirkwood’s school building.
Bottom line is there are too many school buildings south of the tracks for the number of children in the area. APS has seen this coming since the’90s, when Atlanta Housing Authority changed their model and began demolishing housing projects. Which is peculiar, because at the same time they sold off schools in the areas that now need the capacity (Bass High School comes to mind). Were they that out of step with the census? – yes, they were. Because until now they did their redistricting the year prior to census release. Would not want to ascribe ulterior motives, though it is very tempting.
JC
March 7th, 2012
6:31 am
I am still under the impression that Coan was going to be used to hold the Jackson High students while Jackson was under construction. Does anybody have an update on where those students will be relocated if it is not Coan?
I also thought that the Coan students were moving to another school (MLK) where both student bodies eventually feed into the same highschool, Jackson. Was Coan originally a feeder for Grady?
Private School
March 7th, 2012
7:49 am
DR.HALL AND HER CREW LEFT APS IN A BAD SITUATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NAACP to APS: Please reconsider school closings | Get Schooled
March 7th, 2012
2:51 pm
[...] NAACP has concerns about the proposal from Superintendent Erroll Davis to close 13 APS schools. Here is a memo the civil rights group sent to the system expressing those concerns: FROM: The [...]
vh3
March 7th, 2012
11:35 pm
Folks around Coan, please understand that those of us at Inman never advocated to take over your school! That plan was totally out of the blue, and we really dislike it!
If the Mary Lin community wasn’t working so hard behind the scenes via the ex-Inman principal (now SRT-3 exec. dir.) to get their way and stay at Inman, none of this would be necessary. ALL these neighborhoods are being harmed just so ML can stay at Inman. Thanks ML for dragging down most of the NE section of Atlanta. Hope you are all happy at all the chaos you and your protector (Bockman) have wrought.
tjatl
March 8th, 2012
8:49 am
@vh3 – the Mary Lin community could say the same about Morningside and/or Centennial (in various plans they were proposed to go to a brand new middle school in Buckhead).
But we don’t and we haven’t. Because we’re not like that.
Mary Lin doesn’t like this Coan thing one bit, either. No one at ML saw this coming.
There is just not enough middle school space for the Grady cluster. There is $30 million in SPLOST for a new “Midtown Middle School”. That money should be used to put the seats they KNOW have been needed in the Grady cluster for at least a decade. Why could you not advocate for that rather than focus your narrow efforts on who you want to kick off the Inman island?
vh3
March 8th, 2012
9:27 am
@tjatl – You are “like that”. You have advocated non-stop to keep ML in the Inman/Grady zone, thereby effecting all the other neighborhoods to your north for the negative. Lots of us are sick and tired of being told that we have to advocate for the Grady cluster to remain together, when all that really does is harm our kids. You have fought hard to keep your kids from going to Coan (unless of course you drag all of us down with you – then you are ok with it).
It’s time for us to fight to keep our kids at Inman, from 6-8 grade. We should have been fighting harder this whole time. It reeks of inside dealings (i.e., Bockman) that you are the one and only school (outside of spark who’s zone covers both Inman and Grady) who has never, in any plan, been rezoned. If ML goes to Coan, the problems across the cluster are essentially solved, with no money spent. It makes complete sense and is geographically feasible. If you didn’t have an inside track, this could already be a done deal and hundreds of other families would not have to be shifting across the district.
Yes, other, more prudent decisions should have been made in the past, but this is where we are now, and moving ML to Coan makes a whole lot of sense.
tjatl
March 8th, 2012
12:16 pm
@vh3 – there is no “inside track”, as you fantasize, sorry.
Why is anyone at Inman more “entitled” to stay there than any other? Piedmont Heights, Sherwood Forest and the north part of Morningside are just as far from the school as the farthest reaches of Inman Park and Candler Park.
There is currently not enough middle school seats to fill Grady without split feeders. You can’t have a coherent cluster that doesn’t have enough middle school seats. You’re saying it’s OK and even desirable for part of the Grady students to go “squat” in a different cluster for 3 years during middle school as a permanent solution.
People at Mary Lin are likewise sick and tired of being told by a vocal narrow minded few that we are crowding “your” middle school and should just “see the light” and go somewhere else.
vh3
March 8th, 2012
1:02 pm
No, I’m actually saying that ML should be zoned to Coan, and then Jackson – not come back to Grady.
And yes, Bockman is clearly fighting for what is best for her personally, and clearly has Supt. Davis’s ear – she lives in the Lin district. She should have recused herself from this altogether, but to date, allegedly has not.
You decided to live on the far edge of the district. Did you really think redistricting would never happen? And there is a perfectly good middle school right near you. There isn’t an available space for the folks further north to go to without enormous construction costs.
And there are a lot more than “a few” who agree with this position.
Why is it always ok for you to fight for your kids, but when those north of you fight for what is best for theirs, your constant response is to call us “narrow minded”? We are simply looking at the map and proposing what is most logical and cost effective.
tjatl
March 8th, 2012
1:28 pm
I say narrow minded because no one on this end was trying to tell Morningside, Centennial or anyone else on the “fringe” where they should go (particularly if it involved leaving the schools they occupy). We simply say BUILD MORE SEATS. There is currently ONE middle school of approximately 800 seats feeding into Grady. That’s not nearly enough to fill Grady. Who else do you propose attends Grady then? Transfers?
vh3
March 8th, 2012
1:54 pm
Although you all had no problem telling KW where to go, but that’s another argument…..
By insisting so vehemently that you stay in the Inman/Grady zone, you effectively forced multiple neighborhoods to endure negative changes, all on your behalf. The constant ML refrain has been “You all must feel so sorry for us, and none of you could possibly suggest we go to school south of Dekalb. You all must support us and prop us up.” The end result – dragging many other neighborhoods out of their neighborhood schools – is the same as if you’d issued a statement saying as much.
And I suspect that MES, Spark, HH, Centennial, and everyone else the Supt. is adding in – with the projected growth – could fill Grady quite comfortably.
tjatl
March 8th, 2012
2:20 pm
Um, no – Hope-Hill and Centennial already go to Grady. And Hope-Hill will now be going to Inman as well (as opposed to King) whether you get Mary Lin kicked out or not. So either way, there will be no one coming to Grady from a different middle school unless they transfer in.
And no, we did not tell KW where to go. They were all about telling US where to go (sorta like you).
vh3
March 8th, 2012
3:54 pm
If that many people are telling you where to go – maybe you should listen and go there.
tjatl
March 8th, 2012
4:09 pm
Perhaps we actually need a kindergarten annex – for the parents. Some need a refresher.