Is football too dangerous for schools to continue to maintain teams?
Research is showing that football poses not only immediate risks of injury to players, but lifelong brain injuries. Should high schools be in the football business? (Jason Getz/AJC photo)
Interesting AJC story today about heat-related deaths among football players, of which Georgia has the highest reported incidences, according to a new UGA study.
The study found that overall heat-related deaths have tripled in the last 15 years and that most occurred in August and in the eastern half of the U.S.
I had a recent discussion with a longtime national sportswriter about the disturbing research on football injuries, including studies that found NFL players who suffered concussions experiencing more problems with speech, memory, headaches and concentration. Another study by UNC’s Center for the Study of Retired Athletes found that pro players who had multiple concussions in their careers are more likely to suffer depression.
This veteran sportswriter told me that he thought it was possible that football would someday not be played at the high school and middle school levels because of the dangers of lasting brain injuries.
In a column earlier this month, Joe Nocera of The New York Times wrote about the lifelong toll of football injuries. He interviewed retired players about their health challenges. I thought this passage was compelling:
After talking to Booth, I tracked down one other person from Super Bowl X: Jean Fugett, now a lawyer in Baltimore. “Would I play football again if I could do it all over again? Probably,” he said. “But I cried when my youngest son took a football scholarship.”
Today, says Fugett, he can’t sleep more than three hours a stretch without feeling pain somewhere in his body. He has no idea, he told me, how many concussions he sustained; back then, “you didn’t take yourself out of the game unless you stuffed two ammonia tablets up your nose and your head didn’t jerk back. That’s when you knew you were really concussed.” And he views himself as one of the lucky ones. Most of the former players he knows live with far more pain than he does.
Thanks to rule changes aimed at lessening the chances of career-ending injuries, football is a tad less dangerous than it once was. But it is still a game whose appeal lies in its violent nature. You cannot play football at the professional level without having it affect — and quite possibly shorten — the rest of your life. “I don’t think anyone should play tackle football before high school,” Fugett told me before getting off the phone. “Kids’ bodies are not ready.”
“Flag football,” he said, “is a wonderful game.”
Back to the heath-related deaths. According to AJC reporter Joel Provano:
In the 15-year period before 1994, there was an average of one death per year nationwide; between 1994 and 2009 the number was almost three per year, according to the study, published in the International Journal of Biometeorology. Georgia had the most deaths of any state, with six.
Researchers found evidence that elevated morning temperatures and humidity may have contributed to the trend.
“In general, on days the deaths occurred, the temperature was hotter and the air more humid than normal local conditions,” said Andrew Grundstein, a UGA climatologist and senior author of the study. But Grundstein cautioned against assigning blame only to warmer temperatures and higher humidity, noting that players are much larger now than they were 30 years ago. Linemen, who are typically the largest players, accounted for 86 percent of heat-related deaths. “We all want a single magic number to indicate the heat threshold,” he said. “But so many factors contribute to heat stress that it’s impossible to draw the line at a single temperature.”
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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105 comments Add your comment
Mike
February 28th, 2012
2:23 pm
Life has many risks. If one sits around scared is life really any fun? The comraderie and fellowship that teammates develop lasts a lifetime. I still see and visit with guys I played with 35 years ago. As far as I know, we are all alive and well. Maybe a little creaky, but who isn’t?
I understand that we need to address the concussion and heat issues. I think strong efforts are being made now to do so, but to suggest we do away with football…that will not happen.
Shar
February 28th, 2012
2:40 pm
Unfortunately, FUNDING football is not voluntary, so I am required to pay taxes that enable all the tough-talking glory-hounds on this blog to get their fantasies played out on expensive fields by young men who are at risk – and who will become a drain on the public exchequer if they are injured for life.
As far as I am concerned, contact football is stupifyingly boring, absurdly dangerous and a cancer on the schools it feeds off of. The twisting of the educational charter that is caused by big money sports, and football in particular, at the college level has infected the high school ranks as well, and is making inroads at the middle school level. It has ratcheted up the damage it does to participants, as Ms. Downey’s article points out, and the best arguments the the above supporters seem to be able to marshal are either misogynistic (”panty wearing sissy’? Really?), bombastic (’hurt players must not want the game changed – why should you?’) or excuses that other things are dangerous, too (although the comparison of football players with military and emergency personnel must have seemed just as hollow to the writer as it does to the reader).
All these arguments about personal responsibility and voluntary participation are ridiculous. I loathe the sport and the effect it has on participants and institutions; I think that providing the NFL (and the NBA, for that matter) with a free farm system paid for by the involuntary contributions of taxpayers like me is monumentally unfair, and I wonder when those of us who don’t want to pay for the lifetime care of castoff NFL players (another great article from the NYT on that issue) or the injured players from the college and high school ranks will get our way for a while – and get rid of contact football paid for by the public altogether. Those who think this is a worthwhile activity should step up and pay for it, without tax breaks or direct subsidies, including the costs of caring for permanently disabled players.
Only then, guest, can you legitimately talk about football being “voluntary” or taking “personal responsibility.”
bu2
February 28th, 2012
2:45 pm
Back in the 70s I gave up on football after 7th grade because I didn’t want to be in full pads the 1st week of August in the heat and humidity. They have always had heat issues, but coaches and players make bad decisions. Those deaths are totally avoidable.
The other injuries are part of the game, but I believe have gotten worse with the increase in size and speed of the players. I think they ought to go back to limited substituion and make the players play both sides. You see the lineman gassed after any long series and they get 25 seconds between plays with a few seconds of intensity that’s nothing compared to wrestling, running or basketball. The players have simply gotten too big. Making them play both ways would limit the number of 300 pound linemen (which is really not healthy for a HS kid). It would also limit the cheap hits when you know 4 plays later the same guy will have a shot to hit you. There are HS teams that have averaged 300 lb linemen, when in 1969, the University of Texas had a national championship team with only 1 starting lineman over 205 lbs.
Troy Aikman was saying he wouldn’t let his kid play with what he knows now. I worry the sport will lose popularity as fewer people are willing to play it. Making it 2 way would mean you would no longer have to be a weight room freak or genetic freak to play the sport and could reduce the number of serious injuries.
In addition to the concussions, knee injuries impact many, many football players. When I see someone under 65 with a limp I assume he played football. The knee isn’t designed to be knocked sideways, especially by 300 pounders running a 4.6 40.
drew (former teacher)
February 28th, 2012
3:08 pm
Shar says:
“As far as I am concerned, contact football is stupifyingly boring, absurdly dangerous and a cancer on the schools it feeds off of.”
“I loathe the sport and the effect it has on participants and institutions…”
“absurdly dangerous”?!? “a cancer”!?! Got hyperbole?
Come on Shar, tell us how you really feel! Don’t care for football, eh? Do you loathe all other sports as well, or is it just football that has your panties in a wad?
Guess we need to put an end to cheerleading too:
According to the National Center for Catastrophic Sports Injuries, female cheerleaders make up a whopping 50% of the catastrophic head, neck and spine injuries that are suffered specifically by female athletes.” That’s OK though, once we rid ourselves of all those loathesome sports, cheerleaders won’t be necessary.
CHOICES —–> CONSEQUENCES.
Choose wisely!
Frankie
February 28th, 2012
3:11 pm
@shar…so when your nephew, cousin or whatever male family member makes it to the pros and offers to buy you a house, pay off your mortgage, buy you a new car from the multi million dollar cotract he just signed …you are going to turn it down correct…I’m just sayin
larkspur
February 28th, 2012
3:29 pm
Shar, did you play in the band or something?
Devil's Advocate
February 28th, 2012
3:37 pm
It’s no surprise that people are playing the ignorant “I was tougher back in the day” card. As already stated, football players at every level are bigger, stronger, and faster today than 30+ years ago. Second, the equipment is better and more protective of superficial injuries. That means players in general are not performing with the same fundamentals as the old days since laying the smack down is emphasized more today. It’s no secret that players suck at tackling today compared to the old days. Instead, they either knock the mess out of the ball carrier or they miss the tackle and the guy gets more yards.
As for head injuries, brain trauma cannot be denied. I don’t care if it’s football, rugby, boxing, or falling down outside and hitting your head on the ground. Football equipment is not defective. Rugby players are tough but they do not “use their heads” like football players. If anything, Rugby players make contact more like football players used to do before leading with the head become the norm.
Now one point I will agree with earlier posters is that kids today are softer and don’t stay conditioned. The stat that deaths in GA have tripled is taken out of context. That was derived from an average of 1 death to 3 deaths per year. The increase in population can account for that change. Something environmental would cause way more deaths.
All in all, there’s a little bit of truth in everyone’s argument here but let’s be reasonable. Bottom line:
1. Football is dangerous
2. Head injuries are on the rise because the game is played with more violence in mind including bad form tackling by using the head as a battering ram.
3. Kids are softer and are trading environmental conditioning for skill performance conditioning.
4. WATER IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT
Devil's Advocate
February 28th, 2012
3:46 pm
As for the whole choices have consequences angle, that’s fine and dandy when speaking about adults deciding to participate in full contact sports or deciding to go into a dangerous profession like a police officer, firefighter, or entering military. But repeated head trauma has long term effects and it is worthwhile to get all the facts so that people can make an informed decision when kids are involved.
I’ve already seen many families do what Troy Aikman said and avoid football because of potential head injuries, not because they and their children do not like the game. This includes many former football players encouraging their sons to play anything but football. Former football players include those who played in the NFL, college, and high school.
But don’t get me wrong, I’m not calling for a ban of football at the youth through high school level but I am in favor of gaining all the facts.
Observer
February 28th, 2012
3:50 pm
YOU GO, SHAR!! This blog-thread is one of the funnier ones to read, for the bloggers with male-sounding monikers all are super, super macho, while the ones who sound more like they are of the female persuasion incline toward Maureen’s excellent points.
Shar, I think you are as brave for voicing your opinion here as any of the 220-pound linebackers on the field.
Are you kidding me
February 28th, 2012
4:28 pm
A principal gets bullied by parents?
The principal should have been fired if he didn’t have the courage to stand up to what he thought was right.
johnny too good
February 28th, 2012
5:26 pm
@Shar, unfortunately as a tax payer, I too, am required by law to fund things which I have no interest in or dont like. Get over it. You dont wanna pay taxes? Leave the country.
Like drew said…..
CHOICES —–> CONSEQUENCES.
Choose wisely!
Let the kids play ball
Shar
February 28th, 2012
5:32 pm
@larkspur, Frankie and drew, not one of you answered any one of the points I made. You just called names, which does not precisely advance your point of view.
No, of course I would not take a house from a football playing nephew or son, silly Frankie. I make my own money, thanks anyway, and any such person who sells their body for money needs to have a lot put away for the time when their bodies are not so very marketable.
Cheerleading? Drew, you are both chauvinistic and ridiculous. Of course I don’t like cheerleading – it has also been over-sensationalized by adults who are all too willing to put young kids’ bodies on the line for greater effect, and you’re right – those pyramids and high tosses are very dangerous. Plus, it’s degrading – female athletes scantily dressed and parading themselves out to whip up crowds to greater enthusiasm for, oh yes, someone else’s (and most likely some other male’s) prowess. I confess to having liked hockey back many years ago, however – until the NHL expanded from its original 6 teams and suddenly fighting became omnipresent instead of skills like skating, stickhandling and shooting.
Band? No, larkspur, I didn’t have the talent. My mother always told me that I’d regret not practicing, and as usual she was right.
Yes, I used strong words, and I find them appropriate. Football is boring, boring, boring to many more people than fans would think – if you put 200 random people in a room and gave a choice of things to watch, football would not come in first. Or second. Or even third. It is also a cancer. It has infected colleges and universities, warping the educational mission with big money, big ego growths that tend to swallow up efforts to contain or control it (see: Penn State as latest poster child of the bent principles in “protecting the program”) In APS, the only sport that is fully funded is football – parents tried to get funding (uniforms, busing, fields, etc) for soccer and were told that only football gets supported. The NFL feeds off college teams yet pays nothing for a farm system that baseball has to fund itself. Why? Why do I have to pay for this, both in terms of direct tax support and in tax exemptions? Would nonprofessional leagues be more responsible about the risks they take with player health if they had to pay for lifelong care themselves? Nah, they just pass that off onto the public and get even more rash with the lives of the young men who play.
I do not want to fund football, and there are many, many people like me who neither want it nor like it. But we have to pay for your preferred leisure activity. It’s not voluntary, I assure you, and if you want to talk about taking personal responsibility I’d have to say it starts in the mirror. Pay all the costs, ask nothing from the taxpayer in either direct subsidies or exemptions for corporate tickets or programs operating in tax free environments like universities, and make the NFL pick up the tab for their own farm teams.
I think there is something very troubling about watching a sport where glory is heaped on young men getting battered, hit in the head, sent flying through the air, or otherwise abused. The transference of assumed virility from young players to older fans through the personal association with the team or players is pathetic, and frequently takes worrisome turns (see fan violence or disgusting episodes like the Auburn tree-poisioning or the LSU fan who urinated on the drunken Alabama fan in a fast food restaurant).
Frankly, I think football brings out the worst in many of its fans and doesn’t do a whole lot for its players, besides being intrinsically boring and stupid, but I could live with it better if it didn’t infect US eduction or cost me so much money. It’s not voluntary for me, and if you took “personal responsibility” you wouldn’t be foisting off the costs onto people like me.
Shar
February 28th, 2012
5:35 pm
Johnny, I have to pay for national and local priorities. I shouldn’t have to pay for your preferred leisure activities any more than I have to pay for someone else’s ski trips. Football is not important enough to warrant the public purse.
johnny too good
February 28th, 2012
5:58 pm
@Shar, the powers that be(our local and national officials) recognize the impact of extracurriculars on academics. Not everyone agrees, which is completely understandable, me myself I’ve never cared for the band, or drama club, or glee club(all of which recieve the same funding as sports), but I do acknowledge the sigificance of their exsitance.
However, if you would like to see sports removed from schools, you and all those who dislike sports, go make a big fuss with the politicians/lobbyists and then if our elected officials vote to end school sports so be it, but until then…………..well, haha
Shar
February 28th, 2012
6:06 pm
Johnny, “haha”? Is that really all the support you can come up with for the stupifying amount of tax welfare money that is squandered on your preferred sport? If you think that adding together the money that ALL of the other extras you listed, plus a host of others, comes close to what is wasted on football, you are ignoring the bottom line as surely as you are riding roughshod over the rights of other people and living vicariously (but safe in the stands, of course) while the young men you cheer risk their bodies, minds and lives. Jeez, Johnny, who else can you victimize while you’re enjoying your beer?
guest
February 28th, 2012
6:08 pm
Wow, Shar, you lost me after the first sentence of your ramblings. And yes, playing football is voluntary. No one is making these kids go and play.
guest
February 28th, 2012
6:09 pm
Shar,
A whole lot more tax dollars are being wasted on things besides football.
guest
February 28th, 2012
6:10 pm
Maybe we can start an underwater basketweaving league so you can enjoy something less barbaric.
William Casey
February 28th, 2012
7:35 pm
There will always be people who love football and those who hate it. The heat related problems are almost always preventable INMAN PARK BOY touched on one problem: starting the season too early. This is driven by the State Championship Playoff system. Eliminate that and there is no reason for starting football in August. Proper hydration will prevent most of the rest. The brain injury problem is almost entirely preventable through proper tackling. The rules changes are moving toward this albeit not quickly enough. As a former coach, I disagree with those who believe that there is nothing to be gained from the football experience.
Shar
February 28th, 2012
8:40 pm
@guest The fact that our legislators are paying off their patrons by wasting our money is hardly a compelling argument for wasting more of it on a brutal “sport” that has somehow become a taxpayer-funded entitlement for the small segment of society that enjoys watching kids getting beaten up. Making assumptions about what other people enjoy, and then deriding them based on your assumptions, just shows you have run out of any scrap of legitimate argument.
Public welfare for big time sports, and particularly football, is inexcusable on many levels. Welfare for activities that result in brain damage, permanent physical disability and death is utterly beyond the pale. I don’t know when or how football gained acceptance among the public as worthy of welfare, but I have to guess it was before the dangers became as widespread.
Mr. Casey, there may be something to be gained from the football experience. But not at the cost of millions and millions of tax dollars that should be directed to crucial priorities, and not at the cost of lives and health.
3schoolkids
February 28th, 2012
9:54 pm
I like watching high school and college football and my husband is a football fanatic. However, spend a few hours in the Neuro department at Children’s and you would be astonished at the number of brain injuries from sports, including football. I will never understand why any parent would agree to take that kind of chance with their child’s health. In regards to hydration, I chaperoned band camp this summer and anyone who thinks you can hydrate enough on some of those days is delusional. Even giving kids water/gatorade breaks every 15 minutes is not enough to keep up with the fluid loss. Morning practice doesn’t help because the humidity can be so high the sweat doesn’t evaporate, rain the night before makes it even worse. I feel for the football kids in their pads in the heat, many are running drills on or adjacent to stadiums with synthetic turf and it is HOT.
mt
February 28th, 2012
10:00 pm
Football teaches kids that life is not fair,you have to
set and reach goals,block and tackle obstacles that get in the way,thats it is hard,it has a style of teamwork that mirrors life,not every one can run the ball,but every man is important.BTW Shar football is anything but boring.Also those 200 people in the room must be anti football like you, funny how long Monday night football
has been drawing viewers and that the majority of top watch programs of all time are Super Bowls.
William Casey
February 28th, 2012
10:12 pm
SHAR: in North Fulton, where I coached, the VAST majority of football related costs were paid for by gate receips, advertising and booster club activities. I don’t know where all this “welfare” business is coming from.
William Casey
February 28th, 2012
10:22 pm
@SHAR: to be fair, there is one thing I can agree with you upon– football does often bring out the worst in its fans. Of course, I could say the same thing about organized religion. BTW, when we start taxing churches as the businesses they have become, I might become more amenable to your “no government support for sports” arguments. We all have things that we don’t want government to support.
Maureen Downey
February 28th, 2012
11:14 pm
@To all, Matt Chaney, author of ‘Spiral of Denial: Muscle Doping in American Football,” sent me a note after reading the discussion here about this issue. You can read his own take on football injuries at his blog: http://blog.4wallspublishing.com/2012/02/12/220-football-casualties-severe-to-fatal-in-america-2011.aspx
But he also sent me this piece by famed sportswriter Frank Deford from Sports Illustrated:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/writers/frank_deford/archive/
-Maureen
The show must go on | Informatic Web
February 29th, 2012
7:15 am
[...] of heat. America is getting softer everyday, u cant protect everybody from everything! Read more on Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) This entry was posted in AutoMobiles and tagged must, Show by admin. Bookmark the [...]
Slade Gilwater
February 29th, 2012
9:15 am
@Maureen – Ironically, the most sensible extracurricular activity to be eliminated would be the most controversial … Football. Yes … it’s excessively expensive compared to other sports,
however, whether you be for or against football in high schools and colleges, you always have to remember this…..”without football (the major revenue generating sport) other sports activities in hs and colls. would cease to exist because of the costs that are not being paid for by the football gate receipts”. Maureen, this is a stupid subject for you to be blogging on…..hs football ain’t going away, not in our lifetimes, anyway. By arguing for it’s elimination, are you also willing to give up all sports in hs’s? Think about it……and I know that learning should be the foremost activity but, there are some kids who don’t want to learn and the only way they’re gonna make it in life is to play sports. We have enough problems with drug dealers and kids having babies now…..doing away with sports would only make the problem worse…..knock, knock, is anybody home??????
thomas
February 29th, 2012
9:27 am
@ inman park,
So, why did they have to change football season just because schools are starting earlier? I don’t get why that has to be the case. If schools start early August, can’t we still start practicing in mid- to late-August and season starting in mid-September? The changes in school calendar can’t be the reason why we have to have an earlier football season.
Ron Burgundy
February 29th, 2012
9:49 am
Another example of the wussification of America when this question is asked. Sad.
bu2
February 29th, 2012
10:06 am
Like I said earlier-make them tougher by making them play both ways like soccer players have to and like football players used to before platooning was fully allowed in the 60s. Don’t let football players be wimps and sit out after 4 plays.
1 Players have to get in better shape.
2 Players can’t get away with being as big-leaving them less succeptible to the heat and weight, heart and leg problems later in life.
3 Players aren’t as big, so impacts are not as severe. At least you will have less fractures since 300 lb guys won’t be rolling on your leg.
4 It makes the game physically accessible to more kids since size isn’t as important.
5 It makes the game cheaper since you don’t need quite as many players.
6 It makes the NFL do some of its own development since the game will be a little different.
7 It allows some exciting one on one matchups with players being alternately receivers and cornerbacks playing against each other.
The only downside is that there will be fewer total players needed so there will be fewer players to annoy self-righteous people like Shar.
William Casey
February 29th, 2012
10:31 am
@Thomas: it’s the weeks of state playoffs at the end of the season that cause the early start. This is a big money maker for some. Just play the regular season, declare region champs and there is no problem.
E. Reese
February 29th, 2012
10:34 am
My opinion on this matter is that the participation in football or any other sports it up the person who want to participate and the parent. Even though they might risk getting broken bones, have to play in intense hot or cold weather, the child still has excitement with what they are doing. Football give you character, it shows the kids how to respect their authority, it shows leadership and even show them how to be a team player. Some kids in today the population have parent, but the parents don’t take time out for the child and that will build up a lot of depression and resentment in a child. So when they are on the football field and by time they run 3-4 hours, whatever anger issue they had will be will forgotten. The kids also today look at the NFL players and say “that what I want to be when I grow up”, so if the child wants to play I think that it is ok. They only thing is that we as parents need to do is make sure our children are safe and for the coaches try to have some extra medical support on the side line if anything does happen.
johnny too good
February 29th, 2012
10:40 am
@Shar, have you ever looked at athletic budgets of various counties? I completely agree with William Casey, schools dont spend as much moneyon athletics as people assume
Shar
February 29th, 2012
11:28 am
Johnny and William Casey: Let’s just take two examples – there are as many more as there are football programs. The football fields at Grady High School at Monroe and 10th and Georgia Tech at North just off the Connector sit on two prime parcels of real estate. They are reserved for the use of a tiny minority of students, and they have almost nothing to do with the educational mission of the school (the one at Grady does host the required PE class, so I give it the benefit of the doubt here). Both schools are taxpayer-funded, and both are land-locked, overcrowded and must turn away students who want to come there for an education due to lack of space.
Both are used to raise money for the school by putting on athletic competitions. The one at Georgia Tech also functions as part of the NFL’s de facto farm system, and the players are not only paid for through scholarships that come from the school’s budget but far too many of them are sitting in classroom seats for which they are not academically prepared and which could be used by someone who actually intends to get a degree and use it to contribute to the economy.
Neither stadium pays the business taxes that any other commercial concern in those locations would. The city loses significant property taxes yet must provide all the property services that taxpayers underwrite. Donations to either program, which deliver to the donor significant benefits, are tax-exempt. Corporate boxes at Tech games, which bring considerable revenue, are also tax-exempt as business deductions. All of these advantages enable the football program to thrive, yet they are classic cases of corporate favoritism and taxpayer funding that are truthfully called welfare. They have never been put before the voters or even our representatives – they are just “traditional” – and extremely expensive.
Ms. Downey’s subject was the health risks to players in modern football, and William Casey, bu2 and others have recognized that the risks have grown and have made interesting suggestions of how they could be reduced with structural changes. I would also point out that there are costs to society as a whole – the costs of insuring these programs and of taking care, perhaps for a lifetime as is the case with the student profiled in the AJC this week, of those suffering permanent injury. If the football programs alone had to shoulder these costs instead of passing them off to the taxpayer in the form of Medicaid, it would surely be added incentive to change the rules and minimize the kinds of hitting that lead to trauma. There are also opportunity costs. How could society as a whole benefit the most from the tax-funded properties that the Grady and Tech stadiums occupy? Could we have vocational school, medical school, research facilities or more classroom space that would be used by a greater number of people and provide a greater return for the tax investment?
Johnny, athletic budgets are a tiny tip of the cost iceberg, and they are still heavily biased to fund football over other activities that are more inclusive than the big-boys-only football team. I may be self-righteous, bu2, but the responsible use of tax money and by extension tax abatements is a legitimate discussion, particularly in a dormant economy. Football should not be given special treatment just because it traditionally has been favored, and especially in light of the very real and extreme dangers that the players are increasingly exposed to.
I don’t like football, so I tend to look at the amount of tax money I am forced to provide to the hundreds of high school and college programs in the state as a waste. It is particularly galling to have to underwrite a system that exists for the benefit of the NFL, an organization with plenty of big money to fund their own farm system just as MLB does. It is also, inescapably, an ‘extra’, a leisure pursuit played and enjoyed by a minority and does not, in my opinion, rise to the level of a political priority that should be funded. I would much rather see those fields, practice facilities, salaries, donations, insurance etc etc funded by the programs themselves with the recovered revenue used to pay teachers, improve classroom facilities, pay academic scholarships and expand what Deford calls the SAM elements of education.
For all of you football fans, I know that the heresy of threatening your sport calls forth the kind of defensive name calling and derision that has been exhibited on this thread. But those of us who have to pay for your enjoyment believe that the costs and risks pushed to the public may not be justified, and it is a legitimate subject for a debate like the one Ms. Downey has opened – or even at the legislative level. At the very least, you need to recognize that your Friday and Saturday enjoyment is paid for unwillingly by your fellow citizens, and the costs may well not be worth it to them.
thomas
February 29th, 2012
11:52 am
@ W Casey,
So, why can’t they just push back the play off dates? Why can’t they have the championship during the holiday break – after the final exams are done? Wouldn’t they be able to make as much money no matter when they hold the playoffs?
Soccermom
February 29th, 2012
11:54 am
@Shar – You seem to loathe sports in general. And no, I don’t think your taxes pay a significant portion of the expenses for the high school sports programs. For the most part, Booster clubs are responsible for paying the expenses – including equipment (balls, pads, goals), referees, away game meals, security, and etc. If the school gets involved, it is mostly collecting the gate (which then requires paying the officials as a package deal) because it is lucrative for the school.
And if you are addressing college level sports, in many cases the athletics, particularly football, are self-funding and fund other things at the college or university. As far as “free farm teams”, baseball has farm teams and there are still baseball teams at the collegiate level. So how do you explain that? Now, I personally wish that all of the professional sports leagues had “farm” programs just as professional soccer does in most of the rest of the world. Then we could send the athletes who don’t want and can’t achieve a college degree to an environment where they can succeed and hold those athletes who want a college degree along with athletic competition to the same admissions, course work and grade standards as the rest of the student population.
Are sports necessary to education? Not to the reading, writing, and arithmetic portion. However, with “no pass, no play”, there is an extra incentive for the athletes to keep their grades up IF the people in charge enforce the policies. Are sports desired by a majority of the population? Yes. The human animal is wired for competition. For many athletes, their sport is their passion. They love it with an intensity that you may not understand! Additionally, sports offer a way for athletes to learn cooperation (teamwork) and discipline. Just because you do not see benefits in sports not mean that those benefits do not exist. Just as not every child is spurred on by the idea of athletic achievements, not every child is enthused by high academic achievements. I know of many kids who stayed in school and worked to get decent grades because they wanted to play sports for their high school. And I know I have read comments on this blog about using whatever means available to reach students.
For some sports, there are private clubs, teams, and leagues in which to participate and a couple of different levels (recreational and traveling) of competition. Unfortunately, those teams are often more expensive than many people can afford. And I have not heard of a private youth football league.
Look, football, basketball, soccer, and wrestling are all contact sports. They all require a modicum of physical conditioning. And after many years of observing the kids who come to soccer tryouts, be they school or club tryouts, there are way too many kids who spent the summer or Christmas break on the couch with the chips and video games! As far as I know, high school coaches are not allowed to require mandatory pre-tryout conditioning. So then you have aspiring athletes who are out of shape and, in the case of school football and club soccer, are practicing in the heat. I think an overall increase in physical fitness would be the biggest help. You also have physical conditions that are not identified in the often cursory physical exams that are required before school sports’ tryouts. The coaches can take water breaks and do everything correctly and still have a player have a serious problem. There are professional athletes who have dropped dead on the playing field. And those guys are the ones who have the highest level of medical scrutiny. Accidents and unforeseen situations occur. We can’t prevent them all. That’s life!
I think it would be helpful if every athlete was given written and verbal information on various health issues that they might face in their sports – such as how to properly hydrate and eat to compete effectively, safely, and healthily in their sports, how to recognize heat exhaustion, how to identify MRSA, and etc. as needed.
As for equipment and techniques, there isn’t much protective equipment in soccer except for shinguards and the occasional head protector which most of the kids think is for babies. There isn’t any in basketball either. And I don’t know anything about football pads. But it is a slow process to change the general opinion on anything. As our coaches evolve from the “no pain, no gain” mentality and new coaches who have been immersed in newer, safer techniques in these sports join the ranks, sports safety will improve.
I personally think that ending youth sports would be throwing out the baby with the bath water.
johnny too good
February 29th, 2012
12:26 pm
@Soccermom, thank you, I am tempted to just copy and repost everything you said
Shar
February 29th, 2012
1:35 pm
@Soccermom (and I was one, too), I don’t loathe all sports and I can easily see how some kids are drawn to particular sports just as some are drawn to drama, French club or even (and who knows how this happens) calculus. I don’t think you have to “end youth sports”, but as you note, those clubs – such as AYSA – that have to pay for the property where they play and the taxes on that property as well as coaching fees, game fees, travel to games, etc. are darned expensive. This does not include the uniform and equipment costs, which are usually borne by the parent at the high school level. I know because I paid those costs, and worked the bake sales and snack bars to make up the difference. What I am saying is that football in particular (which is what Ms. Downey wrote about) is phenomenally expensive, reaches far beyond the booster club contribution to dig deep into the public purse and can be ruinous to the bodies of the young men who play the sport.
Ms. Downey raises the question – and notes evidence – that those costs are excrutiatingly high, and questions whether having publicly-funded football teams is worth it. I don’t object to a private football club system as long as they pay their own expenses – ALL of them – and they are insured to provide medical care for as long as injured players need it, or that (as in the case of AYSA) parents are required to show proof of insurance before their kids can play. I think that your safety suggestions are right, and every parent and player should fully understand and weigh the risks of participation.
Why can’t the NFL pay the property taxes and upkeep of Division 1 stadiums? Why are the donations that buy better tickets and access to players tax deductible? Why can corporations buy season tickets and write them off, passing the tax cost along to the public? Why are stadiums located on tax-exempt real estate, when the public is paying for that land in order to further the education of the future generation? Football is the biggest hog at the trough, as it requires the most land, the most players and the most coaches, and it also puts the greatest number of kids at risk (although when my kids were playing soccer there was a great deal of literature about the greater risk of broken limbs playing soccer than football).
Many more kids participate in non-varsity sports, using multi-purpose facilities, than play in big stadiums. These programs make far more difference in promoting fitness and shoving couch potatoes out the door. I’m all in favor. Just look at what Ms. Downey is talking about – the huge risk of serious injury that even the NFL is being forced to admit and deal with, after years of fudging and resisting, and the NFL-influenced style of play that puts young students at risk. Add in the huge involuntary tax support from people like me, and the opportunity costs of land use and non-students in the classroom, and you have a debateable issue that I believe should be addressed.
Soccermom
February 29th, 2012
1:57 pm
One thing you are not realizing is that those stadium fields are utilized by soccer teams and, many times, there are tracks around them for the track and field kids. And let’s don’t forget the band. They perform during those football games and have expensive instruments and uniforms.
It could be argued that high school sports can be viewed as education with the goal (no pun intended) of securing a job as a professional athlete. And, before anyone quotes the statistics of how few high school players play at the college level and how few college players play at the pro level, let me draw the parallel that, of the many students who aspire to be the CEO of a company or a doctor or some such high level career, few actually achieve that goal either.
There are many activities that humans participate in that have the potential to be “ruinous” to the human body, including driving a car. Please get over the nanny state mentality and quit advocating the restriction of someone else’s freedom to partake of an enjoyable activity. But I agree with the reasonable advocacy of increasing safety. But remember, life isn’t fair and it isn’t always safe!
bu2
February 29th, 2012
2:12 pm
And the PE classes use those tracks. The fields and track are open to the general student population and the public in many high schools and some colleges (although that is decreasing because of liability issues from the lawyers who sue whenever anyone gets hurt). When I was in college the big football stadium and track were open 24 hours a day except for 2 or 3 hours during practice times.
grow up
February 29th, 2012
2:21 pm
Seriously, did they do the study about the kid who dropped dead at band?
Doubt it.
johnny too good
February 29th, 2012
2:34 pm
Ok I’m just gonna sit in Soccermom’s amen corner and ride her coatails
Devil's Advocate
February 29th, 2012
2:59 pm
Shar,
Suggesting that football steals money from students is just as crazy as those denying that there’s anything negative about football. Why does the UGA Athletic Association donate $2 million a year to the academic side of the house? Why does having about 6 home football games a year cause an economic boom to occur in Athens each fall which the local businesses greatly appreciate? Why do high school teams charge parents about $500 per player to play then have fund raisers and operate a concessions stand at games if football is robbing “regular” students blind?
As for your GT scenario (which can apply to any college with a football team), are you really suggesting that a football player is denying a deserving student a spot in the classroom? Really? Most Tech grads I know would laugh at the notion that a football player would step foot near one of their uber hard classes. I didn’t realize that colleges had a hard cap on enrollment. Do they set it every year like the NFL sets a salary cap? FWIW, UGA had 85 scholarship football players when it was a 20K enrollment university back in the 1990s and it has 85 scholarship football players today now that it’s over 30K. No deserving student is being denied a spot in the classroom because of a football player.
I agree with some of your points (or principles behind them) but your position does have a lot of bias pushing posts.
Shar
February 29th, 2012
3:22 pm
@Soccermom, no nanny state here. But don’t force me to pay the freight for your chosen activity.
The NFL is scrambling to avoid having to pay for compensation and care of brain damaged former players who are now dependent upon the state for expensive medical coverage. The league has been fined for hiring doctors to “study” player brain damage and report meretricious findings. These costs are staggering and were a major bone of contention between the players’ union and the owners in the last negotiation period, and the league’s increasing culpability is forcing on-field changes to better protect the players. As long as they could shove costs off onto the taxpayer, there was no motivation to moderate the excessive demands of coaches and fans, none of whom actually had to take the physical risks personally.
Yes, I agree that sometimes the high schools allow track, soccer and occasionally baseball players to use the football fields, and as I noted Grady lets the PE classes use the track. They also sometimes rent out the fields – and keep the money while charging maintenance and repair to the taxpayers. Colleges, and particularly Div 1 schools, do not permit this. No PE class goes out Between The Hedges, or plays intramural flag football at Tech’s stadium. Nor are the ancillary facilities such as weight rooms available to the average student.
How much could we recoup if we sold the Tech stadium land to a corporate entity and received annual property taxes for it? How many STEM teachers could we hire, or labs could we equip, with that money? How many more technical students could we educate if we tore it down and built more classrooms? What is the best investment for the taxpayer’s education dollar?
drew (former teacher)
February 29th, 2012
3:25 pm
Shar says:
“@larkspur, Frankie and drew, not one of you answered any one of the points I made. You just called names, which does not precisely advance your point of view.”
And follows that up with this:
“Drew, you are both chauvinistic and ridiculous.” Haha…pot, meet kettle!
Shar…I could take you more seriously if you would just lay off of the exagerration and hyperbole. Seriously…
“…so I am required to pay taxes that enable all the tough-talking glory-hounds on this blog to get their fantasies played out on expensive fields by young men.”
Yes, you’re required to pay taxes, just like the rest of us (and we appreciate your support.
Do you think you’re the only person that’s ever payed taxes for something they oppose (or even loathe)? I didn’t support the war in Iraq (which brought a hellava lot more harm to our young people than football ever will), but you won’t find me crying about having to pay taxes to support it. Call me a patriot.
“…stupifying amount of tax welfare money that is squandered on your preferred sport.”
How much exactly is a stupifying amount? How much did you pay in taxes last year to support HS football? I certainly don’t have access to the data, but I suspect in the big picture, it’s a stupifyingly small percentage. Feel free to prove me wrong. And I’m positive it’s a lot less than I had to pay to support a military action I opposed.
Devil's Advocate
February 29th, 2012
3:31 pm
Shar,
Have you ever been to the Ramsey Center at UGA? I worked there as a student employee and used it regularly when I was at UGA in the 1990s. After having used the old SportsLife fitness club in Buckhead, Ramsey Center blew it away for fitness options. Indoor track, indoor pool (swimming and diving along with a hot tub), racquetball, squash, 4 full basketball courts with the option to convert to volleyball, badmiton, and indoor soccer, full fitness room with free weights, machine weights, treadmills, stair climbers, pull up and dip racks, multipurpose rooms for aerobics, wrestling, martial arts club usage…I’m sure I left something out. Oh yeah, have you seen UGA’s intramural fields for outdoor sports like softball? Yeah, average students don’t get squat.
Soccermom
February 29th, 2012
5:06 pm
You are quite mistaken in regards to what the “average” – I guess we should read that as non-scholarship athlete student – has in the way of facilities. My older child is at UGA and I am told that Ramsey is a sight to behold. And the other facilities ain’t bad either
Archie@Arkham Asylum
February 29th, 2012
5:32 pm
When former U.S. president Gerald Ford played football, a football helmet was a leather pancake that flapped down over the ears. Ford used to recall years later, that in high school and college, he and his colleagues sometimes practiced without helmets (something that wasn’t lost on his later colleagues in Congress!). Equipment has changed since then and so has blocking and tackling and often there is a temptation to lead with the head because the helmet is the hardest piece of gear. The human head and spinal column was not intended to be used as a battering ram! Also, when Gerald Ford played football, a 300 lb. defensive lineman would have been fat and slow. Nowadays, a player that size can be fast, even as fast as the ball carrier and contact like that using force rather than finesse can be devastating (Force = Mass X Acceleration). A lot could be attributed to a national mania to “win at any cost’ but that has been with us for a good while. Coaches and players have to ask themselves “what price victory?” and emphasize proper football technique (Which still exists!)
bu2
February 29th, 2012
5:59 pm
@Shar
Division I schools have until recent years permitted access. As I said my school had the stadium open 24 hours a day and they are a major football power. What has happened is that schools are getting sued if students are victims of crime on their property, so a lot of schools have changed their policies in the last 10-15 years. There are also suits from people using the facilities who hurt themselves and more vandalism than there used to be. These facilities in Division I are funded by donations and seat licenses. Sometimes there are student fees which are voted on by the students. Your tax money is not funding these. And I guarantee if GT ever tore down their stadium, the last thing they would do is sell the land.
To Pluto
March 1st, 2012
6:17 am
So Pluto, sports that cause death are ok according to you? Just as long as they are entertaining, right?
Well, then why football? We have lots of Christians in this country and lots of zoos. We could feed the Christians to the lions. that would be much more entertaining than football.
Because that’s all that matters — how entertained you are.
Thanks for clearing that up for us.
Good Mother