Charter school amendment battle shifts to Senate
With the House passing the charter school amendment last week, the issue now moves to the Senate where battle lines are already being drawn.
Here is a first volley from one of the amendment’s opponents in the Senate. Sen. Vincent Fort of Atlanta is Democratic Caucus whip. Fort says he supports charters, but does not support the amendment.
By Vincent Fort
Much has been made these past weeks about charter schools. Last week, the Georgia House of Representatives passed HR 1162, a measure billed as a pro-charter schools initiative.
Proponents of this state constitutional amendment claim it is a decision of whether or not to support charter schools. It is not. They also claim a constitutional amendment is needed because the Georgia Supreme Court has deemed it necessary to establish the legitimacy of charter schools. This is not only a misunderstanding of the court’s ruling in Gwinnett County Schools v. Cox, it is an intentional misreading and completely invalid.
Many state legislators – in the House and in the Senate – support charter schools. The charter school concept is one of building community education – providing parents, educators and students the ability to self-govern, offering educational opportunities that may not be offered in their local public schools.
A very small number of people have conflated the concept of “control and management” of local schools and, in doing so, are threatening public school systems across this state. The constitutional amendment offered would allow the state to approve charter applications over the objection of local boards. If the state approves, it is allowed to appropriate local school funds to the charter school.
The state should not be allowed to spend local money, without accountability and with unfettered power. Local taxpayers would have no choice in the state decision but would be left with the consequences. This is the purest form of taxation without representation and is the equivalent to giving the state a blank check.
During the past decade, school systems have lost 25 percent of their funding. Some school systems have survived in spite of the cutbacks, but in many areas – particularly rural areas of our state – administrators are at a financial tipping point. Removal of any more money would mean collapse – not just of one school but of entire systems – leaving thousands of children without their primary constitutional right of an adequate education.
If a constitutional amendment or legislation similar to HR 1162 is approved, the state could create their own state schools and then use local tax dollars to fund them. We cannot in good conscience allow the state to create a parallel system of public schools.
We cannot allow state administrators to reach into local communities and pull out money without oversight. All elected officials struggle at times to satisfy constituents. It is impossible to please everybody all the time, but duly elected boards of education are held responsible by the voters for the decisions they make – a group of seven people on a state commission are not.
While alternative methods of education, including charter schools, should be pursued, I will never support decimating public schools nor taxing our citizens without representation. Government should be accountable, honest and transparent.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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89 comments Add your comment
Ed Johnson
February 28th, 2012
1:35 pm
I have started reading in Charles Murry’s recent book, “Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010,” that seems to offer insight into what’s going on and about that which Mary Elizabeth reminds us.
Don’t be put off by the book’s title, or by Murray being the controversial person he is – you know, The Bell Curve thing.
Atlanta and APS and now Georgia, itself, seem microcosms of “Coming Apart,” and perhaps Murray offers insight as to why.
http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Apart-State-America-1960-2010/dp/0307453421
Mary Elizabeth
February 28th, 2012
1:37 pm
Rick in ATL, 1:15 pm
“@Mary: I’m a parent in APS and I don’t have to rely on theory or what long-dead Thomas Jefferson might think.”
——————————————————————-
Rick, Jefferson may be “long-dead” but his ideas remain alive. I exercise my voice to keep Jefferson’s ideas, regarding education and what our nation is essentially about, alive for future generations.
The problems you mention in your school must be changed from within. Having some students leave for charter schools only guarantees that many other students will be left behind, with even less financial resources than before, in their schools, with a more segregated (by class) population.
I am not against all charter schools and I know that some may be helpful, but I think I do see the political forces behind the state Commission for charter schools, and I believe that that entity could dismantle public schools in time, especially if that is an intent behind its creation.
If you read my link to my blog given at 12:44 pm, you will see that I give specific instructional suggestions to build students’ reading growth. My post is not “theorizing,” as you say, but quite specific in detail. Why not form a group of interested parents in your school who will read my educational essays on my blog to learn specific reading techniques? Then, those parents, together, could help one another know how to teach those techniques to their children. This is one example of how to improve your public school, from within. When unmotivated parents in your school see the positive effect that your group of parents have on their children’s learning habits and commitment to learning, then perhaps they, too, will be hopeful enough to join in the group with you, thereby inspiring others to join.
I must go for the afternoon. Best of luck to you.
Rick in ATL
February 28th, 2012
1:56 pm
Take a Great Recession, add a massive cheating scandal, and you can see why even the most white-guilt afflicted APS parents are talking about forming charters (or about fleeing entirely).
Nationally, the momentum is all on our side. So my advice to those of you who are legitimately concerned about the fate of traditional public schools is this: give us something to stay for, before we leave for good.
Make a radical change. (Incremental won’t get ‘er done). Declare that henceforth, public schools will not tolerate disruption; repeat offenders will be summarily ejected, and that each school will be run as a meritocracy–you know, like, um…life. (And the better charter schools). Insist that every parent sign a contract. Then enforce the contract.
Or don’t. But once the charter, voucher and money-follows-the-child movements gather enough steam, you’d best resign yourselves to running the desultory, second-tier schools you’ll have left.
Now is your last best shot. Someone tell Kasim Reed to put down his toy streetcar model and get busy.
3schoolkids
February 28th, 2012
2:43 pm
How do we stop this train? It IS a national movement. As Charters are government schools (even if they are privately run, if they are being run on state/federal/local money than they are public) we as taxpayers are entitled to information on the management of these schools. Much of the information they are required to provide is not published publicly. I would love to see massive FOIA requests by taxpayer groups to truly investigate the “efficacy” of this model. Also, if our Constitution (federal and state) guarantees free public education, what is to stop a student who doesn’t make the lottery in a Charter from suing for entry? Couldn’t a student argue that a local charter that is closer to them in location or has a program of study they need is the most appropriate location for them regardless of the ability to sign a contract (requiring volunteer hours or money in exchange for not volunteering) or lack of transportation? There will be more lawsuits and Charters will be forced to accept anyone who wishes to attend and you will have the “exclusionaries” fleeing to private schools again. This train has left the station but there is still time to keep it from veering seriously off course.
Former Spark parent
February 28th, 2012
3:24 pm
Sigh….fleeing a bad school, or a good school with too many bad apples, or even a charter school that has been compelled to act against the best interests of its students ….those acts do NOT make one an “exclusionary.” Try instead “thoughtful steward of one’s child’s education.”
What IS this mindset that citizens owe public schools their children, no matter how awful the district may perform? You better double-check on that because if that ever was a widely held view, it is fading fast.
Ed Johnson
February 28th, 2012
3:29 pm
“So my advice to those of you who are legitimately concerned about the fate of traditional public schools is this: give us something to stay for, before we leave for good.”
Yup. Instant pudding. All I want is instant pudding. Don’t bother me with having to learn something I don’t already know, like learning how to improve our public education systems. And certainly don’t bother me with having to do the hard work to improve anything. Just give me what I want, right now. And if you can’t give it to me, then you’re worthless and I’ll just throw a hissy fit and go seek instant pudding elsewhere, like the instant pudding charter schools offer. That’s the trick. Charter schools will give me the instant pudding I want, right now!
For Kids
February 28th, 2012
3:46 pm
“I wish those who are so adamant about fighting to leave would fight to make their local public school into the school they want to see!” Amen, Amen…
Big Bill
February 28th, 2012
4:05 pm
@Rick in ATL: I did not say the Republicans are out to destroy us.But the effort to privatize public schools around the country is a Republican undertaking. Again, read “The Republican War on Education” by Ruth Coniff, Progressive Magazine, May 2011, which recounts the efforts of Republican Governor Scott Walker to set up a state-wide charter school system.
I am just hoping that, before folks decide to support HR 1162, they investigate whether it is, as I believe, part of a well coordinated, well funded effort to privatize public education in this country undertaken by a group of extreme right-wing Republican billionaires such as Dick and Betsy Devos whose activities in this area have been well documented by investigative reporters such as Ruth Coniff in the Progressive magazine and Rachel Tabachnick in the Talk To Action online publication site. I urge folks to google: “Video: Devos outlines “stealth” strategy to destroy Public Education” May 3, 2011 Play the video. It speaks volumes. Dick and Bestsy Devos are Republican royalty. Betsy Devos was the National Finance Chairman – National Republican Senatorial Committee, 2000, and Chairman, Michigan Republican Party, 2003-2005. Dick Devos was the (unsuccessful) Republican nominee for Governor of Michigan in 2006. According to an ABC News story the Dick and Betsy Devos Foundation were among those which funded a series of court actions leading up to the Citizens United victory in the U.S. Supreme Court. Google: “Citizens United vs. the FEC: the Return of Corporate Influence Peddling?’ by Matthew Mock, ABC News, January 13, 2010. Believe me, the Devoses are Republican power players. And Betsy Devos is now four-square behind and in support of HR 1162.
Ronin
February 28th, 2012
4:09 pm
@HS Public Teacher: your comment: **********Do you really think that teachers teach our opinions in the classroom? I do not. Do you really think that teachers teach our politics in the classroom? I do not. Do you really think that teachers teach our religon in the classroom? i do not***********************
You asked me a question (then answered it yourself) I simply answered your question and interjected a little humor. Relax. Of course there’s no convincing me that your not party biased after the swipe you took at Republicans. Calling a collective group greedy, not caring about schools is a pretty harsh accusation. I’m no fan of the GOP, but they’re in the drivers seat and appear to be for the foreseeable future.
Your comment:****************
” Why is this? Because Georgia politics is driven by corportations and the almighty dollar. The politicans (and I will call out specifically the republican ones) don’t really give a rat’s behind about the people. They care 100% about the businesses, the corporations, and the money”***************
I’ve explained basic economics to you regarding the need for business and establishment of a tax base to support public/government education. moving on…..
Okay, you said you would specifically call out the Republican ones…. which ones? Names and evidence to support your statement? It might be interesting reading…..
Rick in ATL
February 28th, 2012
4:36 pm
@Big Bill–well, I honestly don’t know if big GOP money is behind this. It might be. But that’s not why I support it.
I support it because as imperfect as it is, it gives us an avenue of appeal if our wretched BOE tries to block a charter for its own cynical, self-serving reasons. Why do I think avenue is necessary? Because I believe more charters will spring up after APS’s redistricting process is over, and/or if APS continues to ignore overcrowding and high teacher-student ratios in its “north side” schools.
If a parent revolt occurs, APS’s current “charter friendly” approach could evaporate in a hurry.
The bill is also a repudiation of the GA Supreme Court ruling, a rebuke the court richly deserves.
Now, you can argue that we elected our BOE so we should have to live with its poor decision-making. I don’t really have a good defense for that, except to say the stakes are too high to entrust such crucial decisions to such mediocre people, and we’ll try to vote better next time.
Rick in ATL
February 28th, 2012
5:33 pm
@Ed: I just gave APS ten years. What Bev Hall delivered wasn’t “instant,” and it sure as hell wasn’t pudding.
But for you, it’s always: “Keep trying! Keep flogging that horse! It’ll revive any moment now!”
If you really think parents WANT to undertake the enormous pile of work that comes with starting a new charter, you’re crazy. NO ONE starts a charter unless they’ve given their district umpteen chances to get it right and concluded the district never will.
At some point, what you thought was a bottomless well of second chances and do-overs actually does run dry. And I think we can all see the bottom of that well from here.
And not a minute too soon.
Confused by all of this
February 28th, 2012
6:01 pm
OK I will admit ignorance. My question is this: If “THEY” are successful at dismantling public schools, how will those without means get an education? Will it be like healthcare and only those that can afford it will get it? I am not clear what the ultimate goal is here?
Will children that can’t afford an education just lay around and collect welfare? Surely that is not what is wanted because it seems that would end up costing more in the long run?
Larry Major
February 28th, 2012
6:19 pm
The Center for an Educated Georgia is actually PAYING individuals 10 bucks to contact their legislators and support HR 1162.
http://educatedgeorgia.org/coffee-challenge/
That’s a slimy tactic even for a dirtball politician, let alone a group pretending to help kids. At least the CDC doesn’t have to worry about an outbreak of ethics in this group.
Let them eat pudding....
February 28th, 2012
6:30 pm
@Rick. I have read your hyperbolic (and often racist) posts on the Big Tent redistricting message board. Even on that message board – mostly a bunch of middle-class whiners complaining that they paid a lot for their house and that crossing DeKalb Ave is the equivalent of crossing the Grand Canyon – even THAT bunch of people is sick of your constant “I will start a great school all by myself’ rhetoric. I don’t believe in charter schools, but even if I did I would not support the idea of a charter school being used as a blackmailing tool for a group of ridiculously entitled and short-sighted parents. Your message seems to be that if you don’t get exactly what you want you and your neighbors will all pull out and start your own fabulous charter school. It’s instant pudding, but the message seems to be ‘If you don’t give me the flavor of pudding I demand, I will throw the bowl all over the wall and go and make my own, despite the fact I can’t cook…’
Public HS Teacher
February 28th, 2012
8:04 pm
@Ronin – You want republican names and stories? Simply look at who voted for this bill in the House.
teacher&mom
February 28th, 2012
8:30 pm
@Mary Elizabeth: I believe you will find this article interesting…
http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/teacher_in_a_strange_land/2012/02/crazy-think_and_education_policy.html
Ron F.
February 28th, 2012
8:38 pm
If I truly believed the state was about the people’s business and truly wanted education reform, I’d support this bill will all my might. I can’t though, and I fear the eventual outcome will be worse than what we have now. Unfortunately, the legislature is listening ot the will of a few and if you think education is overly burdened with useless bureaucracy now, just wait. I understand parents’ frustrations with many school systems, but is giving the state more control over local affairs the answer? I just don’t think so.
And how did we get to this point? We, as voters, dropped the ball. Not enough of us were involved along the way and put these idiot boards of education and legislators in office. If there’s a mess, we have to take the blame for our lack of attention and lack of participation.
To those who feel charters will solve behavior problems that public schools can’t, think about this. Our schools are a reflection of society in general, and we can’t solve society’s problems alone. The only advantage to charter schools is that you can throw kids out. Then what? What do we do with the kids who don’t fit the charter model? How are we going to deal with kids we know have issues that make learning and particiapting in a rigid learning environment a challenge? I teach these kids all day, and I can tell you how smart many of them are, and how many of them just want someone to find something positive about them. We need nontraditional schools for them, but will there be enough advocacy to get charter schools like that going? I doubt it and my precious, flawed, damaged, often misjudged kids will be left with even less reason to try to find a way to live in a world that ignores and devalues them. I could always teach in the juvenile justice centers which will be exploding in population when the state takes over education.
Active in Cherokee
February 28th, 2012
9:11 pm
As someone who generally votes Republican myself, I am ashamed to say this Democratic may be one of the few people trying to advance true Republican values by saying “The state should not be allowed to spend local money, without accountability and with unfettered power”. This has been my argument for the last year in this argument. Yes – I am for School Choice (not just limited to Charters) Yes – I am for Magnet Programs, IB schools, Vo-Tech schools, Stem Academies, and even Chrater Schools (we have 150 of them right now in GA) Yes – I am for reshaping the public school system. However – the state government should NEVER introduce a bill which seeks to control LOCAL money – whether it be Local funds for the BOE, City Hall, Police/Fire/EMT, or anything else under Local Control. Less Government/LOCAL control – that’s the Republican agenda and I wish our current legislators would get on board.
Mary Elizabeth
February 28th, 2012
9:44 pm
@teacher&mom, 8:30 pm
Thank you for sharing that article with me. I hope all will read it. It is very erudite and it not only makes substantive parallels in history with what is happening in education today, but it also poses critical questions for us to ask ourselves in terms of how we, individually, will react to what is happening in education based on those parallels. What is happening in education in our nation, today, is only one example of underlying forces at work in our nation. (See the following on ALEC.)
I found the link on ALEC, within that article, also, very informative. Below is an excerpt from that link.
================================================
“ALEC Corporations
ALEC is not a lobby; it is not a front group. It is much more powerful than that. Through ALEC, behind closed doors, corporations hand state legislators the changes to the law they desire that directly benefit their bottom line. Along with legislators, corporations have membership in ALEC. Corporations sit on all nine ALEC task forces and vote with legislators to approve ‘model’ bills. They have their own corporate governing board which meets jointly with the legislative board. (ALEC says that corporations do not vote on the board.) They fund almost all of ALEC’s operations. Participating legislators, overwhelmingly conservative Republicans, then bring those proposals home and introduce them in statehouses across the land as their own brilliant ideas and important public policy innovations—without disclosing that corporations crafted and voted on the bills. ALEC boasts that it has over 1,000 of these bills introduced by legislative members every year, with one in every five of them enacted into law. ALEC describes itself as a ‘unique,’ ‘unparalleled’ and ‘unmatched’ organization. It might be right. It is as if a state legislature had been reconstituted, yet corporations had pushed the people out the door. Learn more at ALECexposed.org.”
================================================
As teachers, we must seek to raise the consciousness of others so that people will not perceive in stereotypes, whether of individuals or phenomena, but instead will perceive existing realities as fully as possible, without denial in their minds, or without creating simplistic villians and heroes in their minds, with which they might identify. Nevertheless, even when achieving that fuller consciousness, sometimes it is necessary to “take sides,” as the article explores. Today in America, “taking sides,” even with raised consciousness, may be essential so that what America was originally designed to be is able to be sustained into the future, i.e., a nation of, by, and for the people. There is much money being exchanged in trying to create an America that Thomas Jefferson would not have desired, in my opinion.
Teacher&Mom, I want to share one of my blog posts with you, which is more philosophical in nature, than educational. However, I believe that you, and perhaps others, may enjoy reading it. It is entitled, “Danger Zone: Stereotypical Thinking.” See link, below:
http://maryelizabethsings.wordpress.com/2011/06/11/danger-zone-stereotypical-thinking/
Ronin
February 28th, 2012
10:11 pm
Sorry High School teacher: you just made my point for me. you stated: “@Ronin – You want republican names and stories? Simply look at who voted for this bill in the House.”******
Before, you stated “I will call out specifically the Republican ones”. If you don’t like Republicans, that’s fine, but if you’re going to make a statement like that, have something to back it up. Just because someone disagrees with your position on an issue, it doesn’t mean they’re anti education, 100% about money and love corporations over people.
Your comment:****************
” Why is this? Because Georgia politics is driven by corportations and the almighty dollar. The politicans (and I will call out specifically the republican ones) don’t really give a rat’s behind about the people. They care 100% about the businesses, the corporations, and the money”***************
**** The comment about the rat’s posterior was a little harsh and simply not true.
If there is enough support for the amendment in the Senate, they’ll let the people vote on it this November. The people can then decide what’s the best choice for their children. The parent should have the final decision on what education option is best for their child, their public/government school choice should not be limited to a government monopoly. In athletics and academics, competition is always good.
Reinvent_ED
February 28th, 2012
11:27 pm
Folks, this amendment will pass the Senate, so start celebrating the fact that Georgia is taking steps to be a leader in education reform. Change is hard, people!
Mary Elizabeth
February 29th, 2012
12:14 am
@Reinvent_ED, 11:27 pm
“Change is hard, people!”
—————————————————————————
Easy truism to say. Here’s a harder one to pull off: “Follow the money.”
Note
February 29th, 2012
4:36 am
And I will hold our legislators accountable for the utter mess they create.
Ronin
February 29th, 2012
6:50 am
@Note, you’re absolutely right and I think that the Legislature knows this, IF this program blows up.
If it succeeds, everyone wins.
Big Bill
February 29th, 2012
11:32 am
@teacher@mom @Mary Elizabeth Thank you both for addressing the pernicious involvement of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) in drafting model bills that advance the extreme, and completely pro-business, pro-corporation, anti-union and otherwise wacko-right wing agenda of the Republican party today. ALEC has a whole section of model legislation for privatizing public education including bills addressing charter schools, school vouchers, online for-profit schools, deregulating for-profit schools and on and and on.Google alecexposed.org I am happy to report that Occupy Atlanta has made today a Day of Action against ALEC and the ALEC- inspired SB 469 which will unconstitutionally restrict our free speech right to protest and picket. Check it out on occupyatlanta.org.
I guess it’s no surprise that Republican Representative Jan Jones, the sponsor of HR 1162 is a charter member of ALEC as are most, if not all, GOP legislators in Georgia. Sources:
Because I Can: Georgia Home of Embarrassed ALEC Members, August 26, 2011 Click on:
becauseican-2old2care.blogspot.com/…/georgia-home-of-embarrased
ALEC Politicians-Source Watch Click on:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/indexphp?title=ALEC_Politicians
Everyone should ask whether HR 1162 is taken from ALEC model bills. The Wisconsin Charter School Reform bill pushed by Governor Scott Walker (AB51-SB22) and which is the Wisconsin GOP version of the Georgia GOP’s HR 1162, was taken from a number of ALEC model bills. A Report titled: ALEC Bills in Wisconsin / Center for Media and Democracy, July 14, 2011 in a section entitled “Privatizing Public Schools” states:
Charter School Reform Bill (AB51-SB22) This bill, introduced by Republican Robin Voss, eliminates the number of pupils who may attend charter schools,and weakens teacher licensure requirements. The proposal draws from a number of ALEC bills – the ALEC “Charter School Act” and “Next Generation Charter Schools,” includes the idea of an authorizing board, which makes it easier to establish charter schools over the objections of school districts and school officials. Click on:
wwwprwatch.org/news/201107/10880/alec-bills-wisconsin
Proponents of HR 1162 may, in the coming days, offer amendments to try to make it more palatable to local school boards in Georgia, especially in rural areas, which rightly fear that desperately needed taxpayer funds will be siphoned away from their public school students to support vastly increased numbers of charter schools over whom they have no or insufficient oversight, ought to not look at not just the substance and logic of this charter school legislative proposal for Georgia, but where it’s coming from. Who is behind it and why. I have tried to address that in my comments above.
As I pointed out above, In a video of his speech to the American Enterprise Institute Billionaire Dick Devos, (who along with his wife Betsy Devos, is part of an extremist right-wing Republican effort to privatize public schools-education in every state in the country), emphasized the need to accomplish their goals by “stealth” means, by operating through front organizations with innocuous pro-education titles and other groups with equally innocuous names. Google: “Video: Devos outlines “stealth” strategy to destroy public education. April 23, 2011 So it makes you wonder: who are (and who is behind) these local groups with innocuous sounding names which are vigorously supporting HR 1162? Who and what is the Brighter Georgia Education Foundation? Who funds them? Why is Betsy Devos’s American Federation for Children a member of that group? Google the American Federation for Children. Who is the Georgia Family Council? Did they create the Brighter Georgia Education Foundation. As I set out above, Betsy Devos’ Dick and Betsy Devos Foundation provided financial donations to the Georgia Family Council. Google: “grants – Media Matters Action Network – Dick and Betsy Devos Foundation Grant to Georgia Family Education and Research Councin 2007-2008. Here is another question for voters: who is ALEC and what are they up to?
I simply urge folks to not view view HR 1162 in a vacuum but to see it as very likely being only one prong in a mean-spirited, spiteful, completely counterproductive, and dangerous Republican Party scheme to dismantle the public school systems in America. One of the earlier web sites that started tracking this type of “shut down or privatize the public school concept around the world is the web site “Business Managed Democracy.” It covers these education issues in it’s section entitled “Business Managed Education.” Really worth looking at.
CharterStarter, Too
February 29th, 2012
11:57 am
@ Mary Elizabeth – Follow the money, indeed! The state spends half it’s budget on education, investing in local school districts that are, in large part (with some obvious exceptions, of course) FAILING. The achievement data Doesn’t lie. We are at the bottom of the pile in the states, and even further to the ground amongst countries. The boards, rather than stepping back and taking responsibility for the dismal state of our economy due to an unprepared workforce, fights tooth and nail for every dollar to protect local interests…and those interests have nothing to do with children. They want taxpayer funds with zero accountability. Whether you support charters or not, you must see that our academic situation will never improve under these conditions.
The majority of charters in this state are started by community members INVESTING their own money and time – not to gripe about the state of affairs in Georgia education, but to get off their duff and DO something about it. It’s hard work, for educators, it can be a political black X, and it’s a total uphill climb. But communities are willing to do the work because our children are THAT important. Our state economy is THAT important.
Legislators listening to school board members rather than their constituency failing in their duty. Legislators who ignore their constitutional obligation to provide an adequate education to the children of Georgia by allowing perpetual failure in our schools are failing in their duty. Legislators who do not DEMAND better outcomes for tax payer dollars invested in public educated are being poor stewards of funds and are violating their fiduciary responsibility. I am anxious to see how many legislators from both sides of the aisle will remember their duty and support the resolution which will allow the public to vote on this matter.
Mary Elizabeth
February 29th, 2012
1:03 pm
Big Bill@, 11:32 pm
Thank you for your voice and for sharing vital information of which many are unaware. A key word in your post is “stealth.” ALEC has been around since the 1970s and many changes in American society, since that time, are reflective of that fact – education being one of them.
At times, I feel as though citizens, today, are still playing out, on the national stage, the ongoing debate between Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton regarding their separate visions for America. Business, as important as it is, should not be in control of every aspect of American life.
I will continue to offer my voice in support of Jefferson’s egalitarian vision for our nation.
HS Public Teacher
February 29th, 2012
1:04 pm
Ronin – Wow. Are you GM using another name? Because u r as ridicuous and irratating.
You asked for examples of republicans that care more about business and money than for people. I answered by telling you to look up the names of those in the House that voted for the bill.
Case closed. Everything else you read into it. Get over yourself.
Ronin
February 29th, 2012
1:18 pm
Rick in ATL made this comment and I believe that it is true for a lot of parents, not just the APS where he lives: ********At some point, what you thought was a bottomless well of second chances and do-overs actually does run dry. And I think we can all see the bottom of that well from here.
And not a minute too soon.******************
At some point there are no more “do overs” or new and improved programs sold that will be the “fix” for education. People examine the data and come to the rational conclusion that this is not working. IF Georgia district schools were in the top 5 or even 10 in the nation, the Charter alternative would be only a small percentage of total student attendance. However, given that we are at or near the absolute rock bottom of test scores, people look to the elected State officials to provide another public/government education option. Some will argue that this will dismantle public education, maybe it will, maybe it won’t. However, there is a greater probability that it will change AND improve public education to better serves its customers.
If it comes to a vote in November, the people will decide the future of k-12 education in Georgia.
Ronin
February 29th, 2012
2:19 pm
Sorry, Public High School Teacher, Think you need to take a course in reading comprehension. Also, a class on etiquette.
The forum is to voice opinions on education issues. I agree with some of the posters and some I don’t.
Still, the blog is a tool to consider a point of view from someone that has an opinion different than mine.
So, with that said, you asked a question and I gave you an answer. That’s how a dialogue is established. If that is a source of irritation to you, then either don’t reply or have something to post other than it’s the fault of the pro business, corporation loving and don’t care about people Republican rhetoric. Believe me, I’ve heard it before and it does nothing to solve an issue.
Or “that irritates me” attitude, leave the drama for your Mama, HS public teacher.
Next point, I am not GM, Good Mother, General Motors or anyone else on the blog. Maureen has access to all basic blogger information and screens for abusive content.
As far as case closed? Oh, I’d say we’re far from that on this issue. The Senate will vote on the amendment and then the people will vote this November. So, no summary judgement for you on this one.
Last, “get over myself”? Never. I love myself too much to ever do that.
While this saying may be from the 60’s: “either your part of the problem or part of the solution”. I’ve yet to see any creative solutions offered by your posts. Radical opinion-yes, solutions-no. So, logic would dictate that you’re not part of the solution.
Ed Johnson
February 29th, 2012
2:34 pm
@Rick in Atl: “If you really think parents WANT to undertake the enormous pile of work that comes with starting a new charter, you’re crazy.”
Few people wanted, and seem even now to want, to undertake the enormous pile of work that comes with learning to improve APS. Too many people wanted, and seem to continue to want, instant pudding in just the right flavor: “accountability,” “high performance,” “merit pay,” “school uniforms,” “publish teacher rankings in newspaper,” “school named for a famous person,” “Our Focus: Student Success,” Bill Gates’ “Effective Teacher in Every Classroom,” etc, etc.
Well, Beverly Hall delivered instant pudding, and too many people feasted with abandon, until the CRCT cheating crisis made them realize all of Hall’s instant pudding flavors really were just that one kind of odoriferous instant pudding.
And even now, with bottom of the instant pudding well so clearly in site, what do the instant pudding consumers continue to want? Way, more instant pudding, of course. But now they want yet another flavor – they want the “Charter Schools” flavor of instant pudding. So, of course, they do not “WANT to undertake the enormous pile of work that comes with starting a new charter.”
Ron F.
February 29th, 2012
7:54 pm
Just in case anyone has noticed, the bill fell short in the senate today. Not that it can’t pass if enough votes can be gained, but as of today that hasn’t happened. They’ll need all 36 republican senators (and they’ll cave just as they did in the House, I’m sure) plus two democrats to get the 2/3 majority needed. All we can hope is that the Dems will continue to listen to constituents and not the threats/promises of the backers of this bill.
Mary Elizabeth
February 29th, 2012
9:03 pm
@Ron F, 7:54 pm
Thanks for this update, Ron, and for the post on my blog. Will respond tomorrow. Best!
Big Bill
February 29th, 2012
9:52 pm
Just for the record, acting through their foundation, Americans for Prosperity, the Koch brothers are now at work in Georgia in the battle to pass HR 1162. Google: “Helpful Feedback About House Resolution 1162 School Choice” which is the Georgia AFP explanation of how to promote HR 1162 and defend criticisms against it. So the Koch brothers have arrived, set up shop, and are ready for business as usual right here in Atlanta, GA. So, who are the Koch brothers?
The extremely powerful right-wing billionaire Koch brothers created the Americans for Prosperity Foundation and funded it with hundreds of millions of dollars as a means to support the enactment of state and local laws and ordinances which implement their extreme right-wing views. One big way they do this is by providing campaign contributions to state and local Republican candidates for elective office who will support their agenda. And they have set their sights on dismantling the public funding of schools in America.
One of Koch brothers’ major strategy goals is to seek the resegregation of American school districts because they know this will weaken public school systems, By weakening the public school systems they can facilitate the destruction of public schools and replace them with privatized for-profit schools. Does this seem incredible? Just do the research. It’s out there waiting for you to discover it and have the same appalled reaction I have had. There is plenty of it available on this subject.
Here is an example: see what the Koch brothers’ AFP did to the Wake County public school system in North Carolina. Google: “How the Koch Brothers Backed the End of Desegregation in North Carolina Schools” by Adele M. Stan, Alternet, August 14, 2011 This article links the reader to an outstanding short (eleven minute) video documentary by Robert Greenwald of the Brave New Foundation which is the fifth video in a series entitled “Koch Brothers Exposed.” This remarkable video explores the Wake County School Board election fiasco engineered with AFP funding of local Republican school board candidates who proceeded to undo the remarkable success the Wake County School Board had achieved earlier in diversifying the student populations in their schools.
Finally, I cannot see how any self-respecting Democrat in the Georgia General Assembly could find it in his or her heart to ally themselves with the Koch brothers and vote for this bill. Is it true that seven Democratic Party members have already done so in an earlier vote? If so, do they not understand that by doing so they are providing aid and comfort to a phalanx of wealthy right-wing Republican Billionaires who are determined to destroy our public school systems? Do they not understand that the ultimate goal of these people is to wipe out what they and their pal Neal Boortz like to call “government schools”? AFP and the Koch brothers are not going to give up just because of this set back in the Senate. They will keep trying. And we need to keep fighting to stop them in their tracks. Vote NO on HR 1162! Don’t give the Billionaire Koch Brothers another victory!
CharterStarter, Too
February 29th, 2012
10:38 pm
@ Big Bill – Do you believe the grassy knoll theory as well?
Mary Elizabeth
March 1st, 2012
12:47 am
@Big Bill, 9:52 pm
Thank you for your post. Here is the video, you mentioned, for readers to watch, regarding the Koch Brothers impact on public schools in Wake County, North Carolina. Please do not be “put off” by the dramatic music. Instead listen for the information and the facts dispersed. Please listen all the way to the end of the video. One line that grabbed my attention was, “Democracy for sale.” “Not so,” believed Thomas Jefferson, and that was one reason Jefferson supported the education of the populace through public schools – to ensure that our democratic republic would remain strong against the influences of the wealthy elite, with their own agendas and their own self-interests to fulfill. We must hold steady in continuing to support and improve our traditional public schools, and we must continue to fund them with public taxes. We must not desert them.
Hold together, and hold firm, Senate Democrats. Thank you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-Ak3tZ_hw0
Ronin
March 1st, 2012
9:42 am
Big Bill, Interesting information, however,with all due respect, I would consider that somewhat conspiratorial. The Left vs. the Right argument puts political ideology ahead of proper analysis of an issue.
While I do come down on the side of free choice and multiple options for a public/government education, as a non-partisan, I consider both sides. I do find that people on the far left are doggedly entrenched and in their political/philosophical goals which often limits their ability to seek compromise on an issue.
While you may not agree with his position, you do have to consider the possibility (from a statistical standpoint) that Neal Boortz is correct.
I’ve debated some of the issues with Mary Elizabeth, while we both want improvements in education, we come down on two distinctly different paths to reach the same goal.
I may completely disagree with her position, but I consider her views and respect her opinion.
No real debate here, just an idea for consideration.
HS Public Teacher
March 1st, 2012
11:04 am
@Ronin – Yes. The continual drivel on your posts shows how much you “love” yourself. Thanks for the PDA….. LOL!
And the part that is most funny is that the questions that I posed…. the ones that you answered…. the ones that you continue to refer to over and over and over again…. where actually RHETORICAL questions! Noticed that I answered them myself as soon as I asked them? That was even a clue for you!!!
However, you love yourself and your opinions so much, you took it upon yourself to actually answer rehetorical questions and then even ELABORATE on them!!!
Wow!
Ronin
March 1st, 2012
1:04 pm
Sorry, High School Public Teacher, you apparently don’t have the mental capacity to engage in a meaningful debate, only post explanations of how to interpret your posts.
I’m being nice, but in reviewing your commentary, my continual “drivel” as you put it, has a lot more substance than calling Republicans greedy corporate loving all about money trolls.
By my level of training in various professional fields, I do not find any value in your comments other than petty quips. I’m not going to call you obtuse but by my standards, you’re “in over your head” in debating this or really any other issue with me. Just let it go.
We try to exchange ideas on this forum, there is some humor, but your posts come across as angry and certain level of rancor. Please move on.