A Teach for America teacher asks why she and her colleagues are unwelcome in Cobb
I ran a shorter version of this heartfelt essay on the education page in the AJC, but wanted to share the full piece here. This piece was written by math teacher Emily Desprez, a Teach for America teacher, after Cobb County’s decision not to proceed with plans to hire 50 Teach for America teachers.
By Emily Desprez
It’s 2:10 and the high school release bell just sounded. I arrived at school this morning at 6, but I won’t leave until 5. My students’ futures are at stake and are worthy of a few extra hours of my time. I am a 22-year- old high school math teacher at a Title 1 school in the Atlanta area. Less than five years ago I was a student at Sandy Creek High School in Fayette County.
It was then my passion for equal educational opportunities launched. I sat in an AP Calculus class taught by an inspiring teacher whose students consistently passed the final AP test –thereby automatically earning college credit. I looked around and saw mostly white faces. Conversely, the demographic mix of my non-AP English class reflected the black majority of Sandy Creek. I was puzzled. Why so few non-whites in my AP math and science courses? This question lingered in my head during my remaining time in high school and at Georgia Tech, where as an honors graduate, I earned a degree in business management.
While in college I received numerous scholarships, immersed myself in cultural events, volunteered around Atlanta and started an awareness group that focused on hunger and homelessness. I also studied abroad for a year. Much of my success at college was a direct result of the education I received at Sandy Creek.
As a senior at Tech, I applied for a position with Teach For America. TFA’s goal is to ensure that children, whose life circumstances put them at a disadvantage, are not denied an excellent education. TFA accomplishes this goal by identifying and fast-tracking leaders into teachers who are expected to put the education of children above all else. They reinforced this expectation by driving home a startling fact: only 8% of kids growing up in low-income communities graduate from college by age 24.
Only after filling out an application, writing an essay, participating in phone interviews, teaching a sample lesson, and attending a day-long interview was I accepted into the program. A program in which less than 10% of the applicants are accepted. To top off my joy, I was thrilled to learn that I would be teaching high school math in Atlanta.
Following my acceptance, I attended what TFA euphemistically calls “summer institute,” but is more like teacher’s boot camp. At “camp” I taught eighth grade math in an Atlanta Public School to middle school students who failed the CRCT. These summer school sessions focused on CRCT math to help the kids pass the CRCT and then move on to high school.
Each day, after teaching these classes, I attended intensive training workshops on topics that ranged from high-rigor lesson planning to classroom management. I learned about the levels of Bloom’s Taxonomy, Lee Canter’s Behavioral Management Cycle, special education practices, and differentiation based on student needs—many of the same topics discussed by my friends who studied education in college.
Although boot camp gave me the tools and knowledge I required as a first-time teacher, nothing could have fully prepared me for the day-to-day challenge of teaching algebra to 180 students of diverse backgrounds.
Still, on that first day of school in August, I entered my classroom knowing that every child has potential, and it was my mission, and as a teacher, my responsibility to ensure they would receive the education necessary to unleash it. I had come full circle from that day years ago in my high school AP Calculus class. I was ready.
During my first semester I built strong relationships with my students, some of whom had never passed a math class in high school without taking it multiple times, or were soon to be the first high school graduate in their family. I teach students who walk to school when they miss the bus, who live in two-bedroom apartments with 10 family members, who hated math for the first 16 years of their lives, or who never believed they could “dominate” (as we say in my classroom) every math problem they encounter — if they only believed in their potential and trusted that every problem has a solution.
I learn much from my students each day about the impact that growing up in a disadvantaged environment has on their school life. I’m reminded daily that poverty, broken homes, working parents, etc., are added hurdles that they and I, as their teacher, must overcome.
From this I’ve learned that success in the classroom is as much the teacher’s responsibility as it is the student’s. Each day when the 6:45 a.m. bus unloads my first period class of Math I repeaters, I’m reminded of the relationships we have built, of what I’ve learned from them, and what it takes to close the achievement gap between low-income schools and those in more affluent areas.
And so I was puzzled to read in The Atlanta Journal Constitution that the Cobb County Superintendent “averted a fight over Teach for America, withdrawing, at least for now, his proposal to hire 50 teachers from the program.” The article stated that Superintendent Michael Hinojosa wanted to hire TFA teachers to help close a gap in achievement at schools in South Cobb, where test scores have consistently lagged the district average.
Unfortunately, teachers and some board members were critical of the proposal, saying it undermined staff morale. How, I wondered, would hiring Teach for America teachers undermine staff morale?
I teach at a school where veteran teachers fully embrace my optimistic and exuberant personality, and consistently assist me in becoming a better teacher. Few know that I am not a “traditional teacher.” To them, I am a young college graduate who wanted to jump right into the heart of public education’s largest downfall: not offering equal opportunity to students from difficult circumstances. Many teachers I collaborate with also come from non-traditional backgrounds, such as accountants, journalists, and even a few with law degrees. I’m just another teacher.
I passed the GACE (Georgia Assessments for the Certification of Educators) for high school math in the 98th percentile. I immediately enrolled in an alternative certification program in which I will earn my renewable teaching certification by the end of this year. I attend almost every available staff development workshop because I want to do everything possible to ensure that my 180 students are receiving a rigorous math curriculum delivered with engaging and real-life applications.
Between my math department mentor at my school, my manager of teaching and leadership development at Teach for America, and my alternative certification program adviser, I am constantly receiving and reflecting on feedback from their observations of my teaching, lesson planning, and classroom management. Interestingly, my presence in my high school isn’t decreasing teacher morale.
So, I’m a typical TFA teacher and my co-teachers accept me as one of their own. Why won’t you, Cobb County teachers and board members, hire me? What is more important when it comes to hiring educators: a teaching degree or an individual who believes that the achievement gap must be closed, and is willing to do anything necessary to make that a reality?
If the Cobb County Board of Education put student achievement first, the question of whether or not reducing a few teachers’ level of morale in exchange for 50 Teach for America teachers wouldn’t even be asked. The answer is obvious.
To those opposing teachers in Cobb, I would like to share with you an excerpt from a thank-you note from one of my students: “You are my favorite math teacher ever! You always have patience and try to explain things so clearly. Thank you for having such a positive attitude toward students and trying to get us to do well and get good grades. Thank you for making me end my day in a good mood by always having a smile on your face and being so outgoing and understanding about things. Thanks for always being here for me when I need help, encouraging me to set and reach goals, for all the nice and kind things you have done to help me accomplish things at school. I had never made above a C in math before now. You motivate me to want to achieve my goals so I can be someone in life.”
“So I can be someone in life.” Talk about high morale. If I ever stop taking steps toward ensuring increased levels of student achievement I will stop teaching.
Should not the teachers in Cobb County have the same attitude –for the students? For high morale?
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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199 comments Add your comment
bootney farnsworth
February 27th, 2012
6:20 am
1-as soon as she interjected race and “diversity” she lost me.
2-as to why Cobb (or anybody else) makes the stupid decisions they do on hiring, promoting, and support? good luck with that one. sadly, welcome to educational real world 101. common sense and educational administration do not exist in the same universe.
3-however well meaning, people like me, 50+, really don’t like being lectured to by 20 somethings just out into the work force.
mountain man
February 27th, 2012
6:25 am
So my question to Emily: after your stint with Teach for America in South Cobb, are you going to permanently relocate and continue to teach in South Cobb? Or, as I imagine most Teach For America teachers do, are you going to do your very short stint in a low-SES school, then get a good job in East Cobb where the students are wonderful and they make you look like a great teacher no matter how you teach? In is no wonder they say “you would not be good for morale” – you come in on your white horse as “better than the existing teachers” and give your all for a short period, then vanish and feel good about what you did for those “poor students”. Yet the teachers who slog in the trenches day in and day out get no support and no respect because their student make them look like the teachers are not doing a good job.
You want to do good, Emily, put your soul where your mouth is and PERMANENTLY select a teaching job in a low-SES school system. After you put in twenty years there, THEN you can claim to be a good teacher. I give you odds of ten to one you don’t make it five years.
BC
February 27th, 2012
6:36 am
There are so many teachers with great qualifications AND a teaching degree who are out of work or cannot find work in Georgia. In a better economy I welcome TFA teachers, in a bad economy like this I think highly qualified, smart, hard working teachers with an actual education degree should get priority. JMHO. Does she not understand that there are many others whose passion is teaching and decided to pursue a teaching degree. They spent 4+ years of their lives preparing to be a teacher, only to find out that there is not a demand for their skills. If you are a new grad in GA with a teaching degree you either have to have an “in” with someone or move far away, as in – internationally.
Elizabeth
February 27th, 2012
6:43 am
In 30 years of teaching, I earned threee college degrees ( at Georgia State University, not a diploma mill school). I spent summers and nights after teaching grading papers, preparing lessons, WRITING papers, and studying for my advanced degree courses. It took me 5 years to get my Master’s and 7 to obtain my Specialist degree. I am not complaining because what I learned was invaluable and made me a better teacher. Today I work with “fast track, boot camp” teachers whose lack of knowledge of their subject is appalling. An English teacher who cannot speak or write correct English or teach grammar correctly. A math teacher who never took algebra in school and can’t explain fractions or spell correctly.A social studies teacher who does not understaand why Prince Philip is not King of England if his wife is Queen. A science teacher who cannot explain why hot water freezes faster than cold water.
These so called “teachers” have taken shortcuts that do not benefit students. The public wants “better qualified” teachers. They won’t get them from”teacher boot camps” which have merit only in opening their eyes to the difficulties of classroom management today.Would you go to a doctor who attended a summer “boot camp” and then was considered ready to practice medicine? Or to a lawyer or financial advisor who obtained his education in that fashion?
Teacher quality is declining because of these short cut educators. I once team taught Language Arts with a teacher who had only ever tuaght one novel in her teaching career–” The Lion. The Witch, and the Wardrobe” to her sixth graders. She managed to avoid teaching ” To Kill a Mockingbird” and “Romeo and Juliet” to her ninth graders– literary works that were on the 9th grade end- of- course tests. Add to this the low pay and applalling working conditions, and you have ignorant people in the classroom. Yet these people are touted as better teachers than I because they plan and execute cute, fun activities that the kids can do easily but learn and retain little from. I am considered to be old and out of touch with students today because I demand that they meet standards by using tried and true methods that are not often fun.I don’t read the novel out loud to my studetns– they are forced to read it themselves. That is ” hard work” and most don’t like it. Too bad.
And you wonder why Cobb does not want them? Hurray for Cobb! They finally did something right.
bootney farnsworth
February 27th, 2012
6:46 am
also:
a-12+ hour workdays are not uncommon, even for old folks like me
b-us old farts have often have families, comunity issues, and other jobs (since teaching in Georgia doesn’t pay worth squat) which also
put demands on our time
c- don’t confuse cordiality with support. fastest way to end up professionally dead on arrival. manners don’t always equate to advocacy. in life, most are right behind you – win or tie.
d-considering what just went on with APS, saying one is willing to do “anything” to close the gap in something is gonna sit uneasy with people
e-obviously for Cobb BOE the answer isn’t obvious. common sense and political goals often have nothing to do with each other
f-nearly all of us have those kinds of notes from students, parents, coworkers. admin doesn’t care.
Cobb Teacher
February 27th, 2012
6:47 am
MAUREEN STRIKES…ONCE AGAIN!!! Maureen…do you EVER publish anything OTHER THAN COMPLETE NEGATIVITY towards public school teachers??!! You know quite well why Cobb isn’t hiring any TFA “teachers”…the county is very possibly going to be laying off teachers and we don’t need TFA at this time. You know this yet you purposely and negatively post another detrimental blog article. SHAME ON YOU MAUREEN!! As for Emily…good for you girl…I’m so happy that you are the BEST TEACHERS THOSE STUDENTS HAVE EVER HAD IN THEIR ENTIRE LIVES! Get over yourself.
bootney farnsworth
February 27th, 2012
6:53 am
if I could talk to Emily directly, I’d tell her:
I genuinely do respect the spirit, desire, and willingness to work she seems to bring with her. and I have no desire to dump on that. but
at 22 she doesn’t yet know what she doesn’t know.
please consider that school for you is still very much in session. keep working for your education, take time to listen to others who’ve been at this longer, and be willing to be mentored by someone.
patrick crabtree
February 27th, 2012
6:55 am
Budget, baby, budget. To hire a TFA, the system must sign a contract and pay an additional $1,000.00 over the teacher’s salary, meaning an addiotinal $2000.00 since they have to keep them 2 years. It adds up. We can’r pay regular teachers, why extra for you, plus the additional cost of training?
God Bless the Teacher!
February 27th, 2012
7:00 am
BC hit the nail right on the head! Emily my be a great teacher, but she comes from the cult headed by folks like Bill Gates who think everything is wrong with public education. It’s their job to come in and save the children from discriminating, uncaring, and burnt out teachers.
irisheyes
February 27th, 2012
7:01 am
Once again, she falls back on that old standby, “If you don’t like this (insert reform here), then you don’t want kids to succeed.” That’s a false argument. Teachers don’t fall for the latest cure du jour, because we’ve seen and heard it all, and the cure du jour is quickly replaced by something new.
bootney farnsworth
February 27th, 2012
7:02 am
easy on Emily guys….
it appears (big word there) we’re dealing with a young, idealistic, gen whatever kid who just got hammered by a huge dose of reality 101.
my guess is she was sold a bill of goods about how the world is just sitting there waiting for her with arms wide open for her to change it.
she needs helpful criticisms, not to be crapped on.
teacher&mom
February 27th, 2012
7:02 am
“What is more important when it comes to hiring educators: a teaching degree or an individual who believes that the achievement gap must be closed, and is willing to do anything necessary to make that a reality?”
Answer: Both
bootney farnsworth
February 27th, 2012
7:06 am
@ teacher & mom
slightly different take: a true believer with the ability to actually make a difference. while some can come directly from the corporate world with 20-30 years experience successfully, for most of us we gotta have 1) the papers and 2) the skills which came from getting said papers
bootney farnsworth
February 27th, 2012
7:15 am
hopefully someone will point out to Emily if she’s sincere, there are plenty of places for her to help save the nation.
from private tutoring companies to AmericaCorps (whatever it looks like now) to teaching on impoverished Navajo reservations, the chance to make a different for a young person is high
but not necessarily in one of the most affluent counties in Georgia
teacher&mom
February 27th, 2012
7:18 am
@Emily – If you chose to stay in education past the five year point, and I hope you do, you’ll find education and closing the achievement gap to be much more than good standardized test scores.
Once you realize that, then the real work will begin. It is HARD work, but it is GOOD work. I’m uncertain about how TFA trains their teachers, but if you consistently hear….”this____ will increase test scores”… be wary. NEVER look at your students’ as a potential passing/failing test score.
Never stop being a student. Read, research, and implement strong pedagogy in your classroom. Be wary of the vendors from test prep companies selling you their current version of “snake oil”.
Find a strong teacher in your building and attach yourself to his/her hip. Ask them to observe your classroom. Ask them to look over your tests, worksheets, lesson plans, etc. Be open to different ideas and suggestions.
Stick it out. Don’t be a five year statistic. Thirty years from now, you’ll be tired and ready for a well-deserved retirement. You can look back with pride at all the lives you have touched and the difference you made in helping them achieve their dreams.
bilbo799
February 27th, 2012
7:32 am
I LOVE this person’s attitude. And I’m glad we have smart, motivated people who want to make a difference. BUT BUT BUT, if she thinks closing the achievement gap starts in the classroom, I would urge her to review all of the evidence indicating that PARENTAL direction (usually two parents who have made smart decisions) are the key, not good teachers (although good teachers are very important). I applaud her for wanting to do her part.
William Casey
February 27th, 2012
7:57 am
I don’t know a lot about the “Teach for America” program but the commenters here (even the usually reliable Elizabeth) seem to be missing two important points:
1. Emily graduated from GEORGIA TECH!!! I can guarantee you that she knows math and has the intestinal fortitude to persevere through tough times. That’s a “Blue Chip” credential. GT is not noted for “fun, cute” learning activities. I know because I went there.
2. She has a passion for teaching and isn’t afraid to take on the challenges in South Cobb. Sure, her enthusiasm might wane but that’s a risk with any new teacher. I’m all for utilizing experienced teachers but ONLY if they really want to be in that particular school.
I’m not a fan of “quickie” teacher preparation programs. However, there are exceptions and Emily seems to be one.
jv
February 27th, 2012
7:58 am
If you are really are motivated and passionate, get an education degree, then come back rather than taking the jobs of truly prepared teachers. Your article did nothing to persuade me. I am very glad Cobb Board made the decision they did, even if it is the first one they got right since ruining the school calendar.
Tony
February 27th, 2012
8:02 am
Teach for America is NOT a cure for our schools. We need teachers with high-caliber credentials who are committed to their students. We need to stop playing games with our children’s education. Cobb County made the right decision when they chose to stay away from this program. While this young person may have many good attributes that make her a good teacher, she has presented arguments that are faulty from the outset. The most egregious is the underlying assumption that Cobb County teachers do not share her zeal for teaching. Good luck to her as she finds her path in life.
HS Public Teacher
February 27th, 2012
8:15 am
Over my years of teaching, I have seen many like her with excitement (both TFA and not) to start. And then, reality sets in….
I sincerely hope that she can continue with her attitude. I fear that her eyes will be opened very soon. I pray that her future administrators don’t destroy her zest for teaching.
rascal
February 27th, 2012
8:16 am
These comments from teachers make me sick. Easy to see why teachers fail the students. You act like idiots, only looking to protect your “union-mentality” driven positions. You have to protect all teachers, especially bad ones, against the real world, where earning your keep every day is critical to keeping your job and keeping your employer in business. If each of you had to get results to keep your job, you wouldn’t be whining about some young upstart showing you up in the classroom. You would be improving your skill, looking for more efficient and better ways to teach not only at a higher level, but how to teach more kids in a day so you could earn more money. You worry about your idiotic certifications as though they actually matter. Teaching profession is full of unqualified, tenure-seeking, low IQ individuals with just enough of a heart beat to get through the day alive. Plenty of great teachers, but without competition and true pay for performance approaches, the profession will never be PROFESSIONAL, just another jobs program for well-meaning, underperforming leeches.
world we live in, in cobb
February 27th, 2012
8:21 am
Emily, you asked why Cobb is against hiring 50 teachers from Teach For America – well, the answer is this:
Cobb has already said the county will be losing positions (supposedly attrition through retirement and leaving the county will take care of it) but now the EIP (Early Intervention Program) teachers will not have jobs due to removal of the program through out the county. Why do we need to hire additional people when we have a pool of experienced educators from which to choose?
It’s nothing personal against the TFA teachers. It’s about timing, funding, and the secrecy from the Superintendent. Perhaps if he had chosen the proper channels to secure funding, the public would not be looking on the program with suspicion.
world we live in, in cobb
February 27th, 2012
8:25 am
Let’s see – could it be that we are losing teaching jobs in Cobb next year (including the Early intervention Program EIP) , the budget, the timing of Teach for America and the secrecy in which the superintendent went about looking for funding? Why do we need to hire new/ not yet certified when we will have a pool of experienced teachers from which to choose? It’s not personal .
world we live in, in cobb
February 27th, 2012
8:26 am
sorry for double post – didn’t think the first one went through….
To Emily
February 27th, 2012
8:32 am
Emily, you ask a good question, which is “How, I wondered, would hiring Teach for America teachers undermine staff morale?”
Here is the answer: many teachers with education degrees feel threatened by you. Many teachers with traditional education degrees want everyone to believe that only those with an education degree are the only ones who can teach. If you come with your great attitude and your non-education degree and work hard from 6 to 5 each day, you make them look bad by comparison. In other words, it’s professional jealousy.
My best advice for you is for you to keep on teaching as you usually do. Keep putting in the effort as you are and don’t let others know yet thta you are a TFA. Then work to get your education degree. Save all those notes from parents and teachers and students. Save those notes as evidence. Then after you get your teaching degree, insist on being hired and show them all the evidence and after you get your education degree, let everyone know how you started, as a TFA.
Then, please, i am begging you, come to Atlanta Public Schools where we really need and appreciate good teachers, regardless of what degree you have or what you look like or how old you are.
Don’t let the jealous types get you down. If you were doing a poor job, they would want you to stay s proof that TFAs are doing a bad job. Remember what is most important — the kids. Keep teaching and work to get your education degree so that you can stay and be secure and earn all the great benefits you deserve.
Good Mother
Elizabeth
February 27th, 2012
8:33 am
William Casey:
I am aware that she graduated from Georgia Tech. She is, however, the exception, not the rule. Tech prepares its math students well — but do they prepare them to TEACH math? Knowing math is only part of the equation. The other part is learning how to teach it to ALL students, plus a host of other lessons that I bet Georgia Tech does not deal with or teach. A summer in boot camp does not make her prepared to teach math to students in middle or high school who have not learned their multiplication tables and don’t want to learn them. REAL teachers, like REAL doctors, come from respected schools of higher learning that prepare teachers academically and give them the preparation they need to learn how to teach what they are learning. GSU did that for me. It took years, not months. You can know a subject– listen up, corporate America– and not be able to teach it. I “know” a lot about heart disease because it runs in my family. That does not make me qualified to diagnose or treat it. You need BOTH parts of the equation to be an effective teacher. And I would strongly resent a 22 year old coming in with the attitude that she know as much or more than do about educating kids.I am glad she is motivated and enthusiastic. Will she still be in 5 years? Can she teach the lowest of the low year after year and not get discouraged? Then and only then will she be a REAL teacher.
Rick in Grayson
February 27th, 2012
8:46 am
Emily should find a school system that is willing to take an innovative approach to teaching math in grades 7-12. Use Kahn’s Academy videos and/or develop a similar approach. Kahn’s Academy works (check the comments of those who use it) and it could lead to a better and cheaper method of instructing students. Why have 100 math teachers presenting the same material (some better/some worse)? This would allow for more teachers to concentrate on tutoring those that still don’t understand the material in the videos.
Slade Gilwater
February 27th, 2012
8:47 am
To Emily Desprez……..you sound like a great teacher of young men and women; however, you have a problem and it’s this……”Other teachers view you as a threat because you are an outstanding educator and, even tho they are not unionized, they still have that Union Mentality that view anyone/anything that is a threat to the status quo as dangerous to their livelihood”……i. e., you’re just too darn good for public schools. Find yourself a teaching position in a top notch private school where you will be appreciated for what you bring to your students.
AlreadySheared
February 27th, 2012
8:48 am
@Elizabeth:
” I would strongly resent a 22 year old coming in with the attitude that she know as much or more than do about educating kids.”
Spend a lot of time with humble 22 year olds, do you? Ms. Desprez may not know as much as you, and may not even know what she doesn’t know. But God bless her. SOMEbody’s got to wake up this morning determined to change the world, and mostly it’s 22 year olds who don’t know any better.
I have to say, with respect to teacher education, it’s not clear to me based on the comments on this board whether resentment for the lack thereof stems more from
“how could they do x, y, and z without taking the classes to learn how?”
or
“by gum, if I had to go through these bleeping education classes before I got to teach, why don’t they?!”
carlosgvv
February 27th, 2012
8:51 am
I would guess the vast majority of these Teach for America teachers are white and are clearly far more motivated than the black teachers they would be working with. That would certainly “undermine staff morale”. Never mind what’s best for the kids.
Batgirl
February 27th, 2012
8:58 am
I remember the days when we were so desperate for teachers that my principal interviewed someone on the side of the road and hired him. We’re not in that place anymore. Cobb and many other systems are losing positions, so it would be ridiculous to agree to hire 50 people from outside the system. Also, Emily should understand that many of us have a bad taste in our mouths regarding TFA because so many young people only stick it out for their two years and then move on, using their teaching experience to pad their resumes and grad school applications.
Emily says that she is getting alternative certification, so I hope that she will be in teaching for the long haul. I look forward to hearing from her again in 10-15 years.
bootney farnsworth
February 27th, 2012
9:03 am
pity we won’t be able to see Emily land in say, Rascal’s or GM’s world at 22 and them tell them how to do their alleged jobs.
Mountain Man
February 27th, 2012
9:06 am
“Thirty years from now, you’ll be tired and ready for a well-deserved retirement.”
Thank you for reminding us of one major benefit that teachers DO get that the rest of us dont: the ability to retire at 52. Some of us will have to work 45 years before we get to retire.
bootney farnsworth
February 27th, 2012
9:07 am
@ William
Emily graduated from Tech.
so?
Joe Hamilton did too, and while he was a great college football player,
just because he got a degree from Tech doesn’t mean he can teach.
knowledge of a subject does not mean the ability to teach it.
you, of all people, should know better
bootney farnsworth
February 27th, 2012
9:09 am
@ MM
ability to retire at 52?
damn, wish someone had told me. I’m several years overdue.
Mountain Man
February 27th, 2012
9:10 am
“Also, Emily should understand that many of us have a bad taste in our mouths regarding TFA because so many young people only stick it out for their two years and then move on, using their teaching experience to pad their resumes and grad school applications.”
Amen, Batgirl! Numerous people have told me that this has been their experience with TFA people (I won’t call them teachers until they teach for 10 years). They are like those white people who participate in Hosea Williams’ feed the hungry initiative every Thanksgiving, then forget about the hungry the other 364 days a year.
To Batgirl
February 27th, 2012
9:12 am
Batgirl, You say “Also, Emily should understand that many of us have a bad taste in our mouths regarding TFA because so many young people only stick it out for their two years and then move on, using their teaching experience to pad their resumes and grad school applications.”
First of all, no one, no one outside education looks for someone with teaching experience. I know. I am a business woman who hires people. Education degrees are regarded by those of us in business as about as worthwhile as degrees in basket weaving.
If you don’t believe me, go see yourself at Monster.com or Dice.com. Every job description has a “required” section and a “highly desired” section. None of them ever list teaching as required or highly desired. Everyone understands and appreciates what a deree from Georgia Tech means. A degree from Georgia Tech in information techology, math, business and especially engineering is highly prized. Just a decade ago, a graduate of GA tech in any of those majors earend a student fresh out of college a signing bonus equivalet to TENs of thousands of dollars. For education majors at ANY institution, we wouldn’t even consider interviewing anyone withan education degree.
Regarding the two years or “stick it out” mantra. I am a parent and would rather have a fresh faced, enthusiastic teacher rather than a burned out old bitter Betty teaching my kid.
Batgirl, I think you rae a teacher who is trying to protect her turf becaue your comment belittling Emily are just sour grapes and have no merit.
Good Mother
bootney farnsworth
February 27th, 2012
9:14 am
for those of you cheerleading Emily’s attitude:
which one
the whiny, self indulgent one
the nobody can teach but me
or
I’m willing to work hard – not fully knowing what the job entails
bootney farnsworth
February 27th, 2012
9:15 am
no one outside education looks for someone with teaching experience…
don’t know if I should laugh or cry at that one.
To Bootney from GM
February 27th, 2012
9:16 am
Bootney makes a sarcastic remark and says “pity we won’t be able to see Emily land in say, Rascal’s or GM’s world at 22 and them tell them how to do their alleged jobs.”
I welcome criticism and feedback. I’m a mature adult, which means I know there is always something I could do better and I welcome all the Emily’s of the world. I also hire them.
Good Mother
bootney farnsworth
February 27th, 2012
9:18 am
@ GM
on behalf of all the professional educatators here, I wish to apologise.
we obvoiusly failed you on so many, many levels.
grammer, logic, spelling, critical thinking..
based on the content of your posts you have every right to be mad at us.
bootney farnsworth
February 27th, 2012
9:19 am
I’ve got the perfect solution
Good Mother can hire Emily, and pay her six figures a year
problems solved.
To Bootney from GM
February 27th, 2012
9:21 am
You write “no one outside education looks for someone with teaching experience…don’t know if I should laugh or cry at that one.”
It doesn’t matter whether you want to laugh or cry because those of us who do the hiring won’t hear you do either. You have to face it, education degrees outside of the education industry is not worth the resume it is listed on. If you want to be in education, learn to love it because that education degree won’t get you a job outside of education.
…but a great attitude, a willingness to have someone YOUNGER than you as your boss two levels up and a willingness to understand that you will never know it all…might get you an interview.
Good Mother
To Bootney from GM
February 27th, 2012
9:24 am
You sarcastically write again “I’ve got the perfect solution
Good Mother can hire Emily, and pay her six figures a year
problems solved.”
I do hire people who make six figures. They are not uncommon in my field and a GA tech math degree would have me looking at her very closely. You betcha…but for a guy or gal who calls him or herself “Bootney” and has an education degree and a sullen demeanor, nah…you better learn to love education, Bootney, because there is no place for you in business.
Good Mother
Parent's corner
February 27th, 2012
9:25 am
Here is the difference between parents and teachers on this blog: Parents wish there were more teachers like Emily. Teachers wish there were less
teacher&mom
February 27th, 2012
9:31 am
http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/teacher_in_a_strange_land/2012/02/geezer_teachers.html
Choice Theory
February 27th, 2012
9:32 am
I teach with Emily and I desperately wish that there were MORE teachers like her!
Mountain Man
February 27th, 2012
9:33 am
So I guess Good Mother would like to see an endless parade of two-year wonders such as Emily, without having any experienced “burnt-out” teachers. A good question is: how good are these TFA teachers anyway in the EOCT or CRCT that teachers (real teachers) are evaluated on. Emily may have one student that raves over her, but how good was she at teaching that student that missed 30 days of the school year? Did HER class make AYP in the testing cernter?
Mountain Man
February 27th, 2012
9:35 am
Also, Are TFA teachers given the same class sizes and same restrictions and same (lack of) support as real teachers?
Maureen Downey
February 27th, 2012
9:39 am
@Mountain, Georgia has not done any studies, but North Carolina did. I wrote about it in 2010, but here is part of my story:
KIM
February 27th, 2012
9:44 am
Here’s a thought: thousands of young adults who were empassioned about teaching for years, went to university to be as well as possibly prepared to teach children face a difficult time for getting a job. Maybe you do as good a job, maybe you think you are as well prepared, maybe you underestimate the disillusion one gets who works like crazy to go into a job that has little room for advancement without going into administration. Well, think how a parent feels, too. Knowing there are well-prepared teachers out there taking jobs they did not want in other professions and the parent’s child gets a less than optimally prepared TFA. I am a parent, an administrator and a person who has hired TFA. Some are fine; many struggle. Do I have traditionally prepared teachers who struggle? Yes. But they are NOT taking the jobs of other teachers. There is a path for support and development. Why should anyone hire TFA who has options? Cobb has the option of hiring great, prepared teachers. Why would Cobb want to do otherwise? You are smart. Why didn’t you choose teaching as your profession? Too many times we find TFA candidates are taking the job because they can’t find other work and the three year or so guarantee (more or less) is tempting. No sympathy here and no district owes TFA candidates anything. My suggestion to Cobb would be stick with your great hiring and don’t add more to your plate to support. And, TFA, the districts that hire TFA have to provide a LOT of support to those teachers. Also, I too am totally unsypathetic when yo ustart discussing race. Why don’t you work as hard to prove your character and not your color? I don’t buy any of this a truly being rooted in concern for race–too many white teachers are killing themselves to help minority students succeed. Look at Gwinnett’s data. I think this is rooted in desire for salary.
White Elephant
February 27th, 2012
10:03 am
“I’m reminded daily that poverty, broken homes, working parents, etc., are added hurtles that they and I, as their teacher, must overcome.”
Emily, “hurtles” is not a word. “Hurts” is a word, and “hurdles” is a word. Using incorrect English is only going to further damage your credibility.
As one other poster suggested, go back and get your 4-year education degree (with a tutorial on proper English). Then perhaps you will be able to make a stronger, more accurate argument for yourself, coupled at that point with education and maturity.
Maureen Downey
February 27th, 2012
10:12 am
@White, Hurtles is a word, but not the right one here. You are correct. I went into her piece and changed to hurdles.
Maureen
Raquel Morris
February 27th, 2012
10:21 am
Much like in the public charter debate, it’s clear that the teacher union mafia is not at all interested in seeing anyone outside of their gang succeed. This enthusiastic teacher, educated at the top university in our state, is undesirable to the union folks because she’s succeeding where they fail. It doesn’t matter that she has been able to make her students enthusiastic about learning or to feel like they can “be someone in life”. What a sad state of affairs for our children, not that too many posters here are that concerned about the children.
Ole Guy
February 27th, 2012
10:23 am
While reading this fine story, I can almost hear the background of sad violins as they generate misty eyes and welling tears.
All the teacher programs in the world will mean absolutely nothing…UNTIL…teachers are placed in ABSOLUTE COMMAND, both of their classrooms and, more importantly, of their PROFESSIONS. As long as teachers must face the unbriddled wrath of parents, kids, and the mico management of administrators who do not seem to have much faith in teachers’ FINAL evaluations of their kids…NOTHING WILL CHANGE. All the alphabet soup programs: TFA, MACE, ABC, XYZ, etc, ad nauseum…don’t mean poo poo. The classroom teacher should be the first and final word on student evaluations. This parent/principal _ hit is nothing but another political circle jerk designed soley for the attainment of “feel good” “and they lived happily ever after” results.
Some/many out there may not care for my expressive tactics, but you cannot dispute my end objective: RESTORE THE CLASSROOM TEACHER TO FULL CLASSROOM AUTHORITY.
William Casey
February 27th, 2012
10:29 am
@Raquel: although I can see the point of your argument, your use of the term “union” just makes you seem silly and uninformed.
no name used
February 27th, 2012
10:33 am
Sometimes, it is about loving the kids and the job, and wanting to make a difference. We were all young once, and full of enthusiasm like Miss Emily. I say if she truly wants to teach, let her teach. Kids need someone in their corner that will make learning a priority, and interesting. If she can help a child discover that they LIKE TO LEARN SOMETHING, then that is a job well done. Sometimes, gifts like that don’t come with degrees in teaching, but they are gifts worth sharing.
Tonya C.
February 27th, 2012
10:34 am
Good Mother:
Just an FYI, APS is the LARGEST recipient/participant in the TFA program in the state of Georgia. Just so you know. How’s that been working out?
no name used
February 27th, 2012
10:34 am
Ole Guy, you are so right. Let the teachers TEACH and let the admin do the administrating. Back the teachers up, and let the kids know that they will be loved, but that with love comes discipline and rules and consequences as well as rewards.
William Casey
February 27th, 2012
10:35 am
@KIM: you can have your “went to university” guys. Emily graduated from GEORGIA TECH!!! I’ll take her and teach her the finer points of instruction in about a semester. Why the hostility toward a competent person who is fired-up about teaching? She knows MATH!!! Get it?
Raquel Morris
February 27th, 2012
10:38 am
@William Casey,
I am very well informed on the state of the teaching profession in Georgia. I realize that PAGE, GFT and the others don’t negotiate teacher compensation or work conditions. However, those groups of teachers are UNITED towards common purposes and have tremendous influence over public policy. Since the term “union” is such a sensitive one, how about we refer to the “teacher lobby” instead? As in:
“Much like in the public charter debate, it’s clear that the teacher lobbyists are not at all interested in seeing anyone outside of their gang succeed. This enthusiastic teacher, educated at the top university in our state, is undesirable to the teacher lobby because she’s succeeding where it fails. It doesn’t matter that she has been able to make her students enthusiastic about learning or to feel like they can “be someone in life”. What a sad state of affairs for our children, not that too many posters here are that concerned about the children.”
William Casey
February 27th, 2012
10:42 am
The best compliment I ever receive from former students is: “Coach, you made me love (or even “like”) history.” They will then go and study it on their own. Learning doesn’t have to be bitter medicine.
William Casey
February 27th, 2012
10:43 am
@Raquel: “lobby” works. It exists.
MiltonMan
February 27th, 2012
10:46 am
Good God Emily how about trying some humility??? 90% of the article is about how wonderful you are & that we all should bow down to you. So you had a problem with being in a class that had nothing but white faces but you do not have any problem teaching in a school where there a no white faces???? A business major teaching math & we wonder why the American kids are far behind their peers from other countries.
How about proof-reading your letter before bashing others like Cobb County:
“…where as an honors graduated…” should be “…honors graduate…” Good thing I am not grading your paper.
Ole Guy
February 27th, 2012
10:56 am
Noname, thanks for the comment; only problem…it’s a whole lot easier said than done. The obstacles…daunting, to be sure…are potential career “boat-rockers”, something which no sane individual embarks upon without some sort of plan. I’M not a teacher; my interests lie in wanting to be able to “pass the baton” to a generation POTENTIALLY capable of “climbing the mountain”; perpetuating whatever gains may have preceeded them. I remain extremely doubtful that the current educational system; moreover, the prevailing attitudes of instant gain inr return for minimal effort will only result in a dismal future, at best, for anyone under the age of 30.
Some, like Prof, seek out specific answers to non-specific problems. Creativity and daring in adressing the issues du jour in educationland seem all but non-existant. The ball’s been fumbled and no one seems ready able nor willing to pick it up.
no name used
February 27th, 2012
10:56 am
William Casey, if you are who I think you are, you ROCK!! You had my husband and myself for different history classes in different schools, but you made it come alive for both of us, and made the time in your class enjoyable, educational, and valuable!!! We knew what was expected, and what would happen if we got out of line. You also let us know that we as people were worth the time and aggravation it took to teach us. Thank you.
William Casey
February 27th, 2012
10:57 am
@Bootney: bringing up Joe Hamilton is a spurious argument and you know it. Graduating from GT means something whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. I seriously doubt that there are thousands (even hundreds) of All-Star math teachers beating down the doors to get jobs in South Cobb. And, how many of them have a GT degree?. Yes, it takes more than content knowledge and enthusiasm to make a good teacher. It’s a good start, though.
Blue dog
February 27th, 2012
10:59 am
The colleges “Schools of Education” should take the majority of blame for teacher quality, plain and simple. The problem is they don’t have to change. Colleges overall fail to adapt to change.
They are a “business” without real oversight other than a legislature who view them as “sacred cows”.
Then, we “elect” a local school board to oversee public education. This is, by in large, is a popularity contest…see how that’s working for Cobb and Clayton counties.
Back to the article…
My favorite and most effective High School teachers both came from outside the “colleges of Education”. One was a former wildlife biologist, the other a retired Navy officer.
The “cradle to grave” control of education only serves to protect it’s own members.
That is why a PHD in physics is not “qualified” to teach Junior High math.
No real change will occur as long as members of this great impenetrable “Education Monopoly” decides who gets hired and professionals start running local school boards.
Concerned Resident
February 27th, 2012
11:00 am
I live in S. Cobb and applaud the classroom efforts of Emily Desprez. I equally thank her for taking the time to write this letter. When I read comments that talk about how we have a large pool of certified teachers who are assumed to be better and/or more qualified than a TFA teacher would be, I find that quite interesting. Interesting because I recall a town hall meeting a year or so ago where a father stood up in a town hall meeting with anger in his voice and tears in his eyes, and talked about how awful his daughter’s math teacher was that year. He talked about how the teacher had an obvious lack of sufficient content knowledge in the course material because he could only seem to explain things in one way. He said that he had spoken with the principal about it and apparently there was no ability to move his daughter to a different classroom with a better teacher. This was NOT a TFA teacher, and quite frankly I am not sure if this wasn’t some teacher who came through an alternative education program. The teacher was, however, certified and had been teaching for years according to the father’s comments.
My point in all of this is I really wish that we can stop taking these extreme, conspiratorial views on anything that vaguely sounds like some “reform.” Cobb was talking about bringing in 50 TFA teachers who would be spread across several schools in South Cobb. I would venture to guess that we have several hundred if not more than a thousand teachers in school in the south cobb area; so the percent of teacher that would be “displaced” is minimal. I would argue that there are at least 50 certified, with years of experience who should probably not be in the classrooms anyway. Furthermore, let’s be honest and agree that no matter whether we are talking about traditional Ed Schools educated, TFA, or other alternative teacher certification programs, there’s no real guarantee that one will be more successful than the other. If there was a known formula for recruiting, training, and then placing teachers that guaranteed success for the students, then my guess is that there would be no TFA or alternative certification programs, and that the likes of Bill Gates and others who seem to have a bad name in traditional education circles would be giving the money that they now give towards education causes to some other worthy initiatives.
Ole Guy
February 27th, 2012
11:02 am
The last time Coach taught me history, it was the history of last weekend’s Auburn/Alabama game. Of course, all us football cement heads aced the class…that was a long long time ago. Six munces later, while a helicopter instructor pilot was yelling at me, I thought of the Coach.
HS Public Teacher
February 27th, 2012
11:05 am
@rascal – Wow. Are you still really confused? Are you really that ignorant? Even after post after post have attempted to educate you, are you just that stubborn?
Georgia has no teacher unions. Ergo – there is no teacher union mentality. A teacher union is illegal in the State of Georgia. There are none – zippo – nada.
There are no protections for our jobs. Although we must sign an annual “contract” to work, there is nothing, not even one clause, in it that protects us. The contract is entirely one-sided to protect the school system. The school system can fire us for any reason on any day during the contract.
Please understand this. Please don’t post your ignorant lies again.
Mom
February 27th, 2012
11:08 am
As a parent, I look askance at TFA teachers because I question their genuine committment to education. If they really have a passion for teaching, why are they in this program that allows (maybe encourages?) them to drop into teaching for a couple of years and then move on to their real passion. I question whether they really want to educate my child, or if this is just a lark–something to do that will look good on their resume while they are waiting to start their chosen career. Or worse, maybe they are dropping into teaching for a year or two because the economy is bad and they need a place to hang out while they wait for it to turn around and they can find a “real” job.
Further, I question their motivations and their committment to my children. I am one of those parents who looks for more in a teacher than just a person who transmits information well. I think the best teachers are people who are committed to working with young people because that is their passion–their calling. These young people were not called to teach originally. Emily was called to Business–so what changed her mind? I understand mid life career changers who major in Business, have kids of their own, realize they are on the wrong path and pursue teaching certificates–my children have had good experiences with these older career changers. But I do not understand very young adults, either still in school or just out of it, who get degrees in Business, then attend a summer camp and decide to teach. If they want to teach, why not take the classes they need to become certified to teach while they are still working on their educations–is it because they are not really committed to teaching for the longer term? If all they will commit to is a summer camp training session, that indicates to me that they are not serious about teaching. (I do realize Emily says she is taking certifcation classes beyond the camp–but I think she is the exception with TFA.)
In short, it seems to me like these TFA recruits are just playing at teaching–and that is not what I am looking or in a teacher for my children.
HS Public Teacher
February 27th, 2012
11:10 am
I wonder….
Where is the person that always posts that teachers “whine.” This write up has a lot of this “whine” in it and yet no one points it out? Is it because they are TFA?
Just asking….
GT Alumna
February 27th, 2012
11:12 am
Yes, a degree from Georgia Tech does mean something, and it should. I was a Chief of Staff for a major bank and hired many Tech alumni b/c I knew the amount of brains, effort, and dogged determination it took to earn a degree from Tech. I practically bleed gold and black.
That said, I am also a Cobb County taxpayer and parent to three CC students and I know that Cobb County made the correct choice in not going forward with the TFA contract. Today is not the time or place to engage in another contract that would cost the county money long-term, especially considering the “surplus” of teachers the county will have due to economic circumstances.
The TFA model may have some appeal (especially on those days when I re-teach my youngest her math lesson since her teacher is unable to do so correctly). However, the sneaky and underhanded way Hinojosa tried to pass this contract off really frosts my backside. I did my research and knew he was a bad hire from the get go. He seems to be proving me right all the time.
Mountain Man
February 27th, 2012
11:21 am
“But could it be that Teach for America’s real secret is starting with the smartest college graduates?”
Maybe – I don’t think we are going to cure that problem with $40,000 a year starting salaries and furlough days ( and no support in discipline).
I do have a probleth teachers getting education degrees but not having a MASTERY of the subject matter. The teacher should be a “Subject Matter Expert”. If he/she is teaching math, ideally she should have a math degree, but at least have a mastery (not just a working knowledge) of the subject. And school systems should not be putting an english teacher into a math teacher slot and expecting them to teach effectively. There is more to teaching than just presenting material someone else has created. YOU have to understand the subject and be prepared to answer questions.
Raquel Morris
February 27th, 2012
11:24 am
@HS Public Teacher,
You’re posting lies as well. It is the teacher’s contract and all of the employment protections within that has allowed 100+ APS teachers to collect their full pay without going to work a single day, even those teachers who actually confessed to CRCT cheating. You get plenty of job protections.
Inman Park Boy
February 27th, 2012
11:25 am
I think Elizabeth answered the question fully and perfectly.
Mountain Man
February 27th, 2012
11:27 am
“It is the teacher’s contract and all of the employment protections within that has allowed 100+ APS teachers to collect their full pay without going to work a single day, even those teachers who actually confessed to CRCT cheating.”
I agree that the teacher’s contract includes protection, but I was unaware that the teachers who are stillon the payroll ever “confessed to cheating”. If they had, I believe they could have been easily and summarily fired.
Raquel Morris
February 27th, 2012
11:31 am
@Mountain Man,
Some of the teachers have confessed to cheating, others are fighting the allegations. ALL of them are still on the payroll and NONE of them have done any work for it.
Mountain Man
February 27th, 2012
11:32 am
Of course, why should a math major go teach, when they can make probably double the salary with their math degree and just skip the education degree.
HS Public Teacher
February 27th, 2012
11:40 am
@Raquel Morris – I do not lie. You are ignorant to the facts.
It is certainly NOT the teacher annual contract that is protecting the APS teachers. Please get YOUR facts straight before calling someone a liar.
The APS teachers are protected under State law – not the contract. This law protects all State employees with “due process.” In other words, the APS teachers are innocent until proven guilty and given their day in tribunal (not a literal legal court).
Please stop calling people liars when you don’t have your own facts in order!
HS Public Teacher
February 27th, 2012
11:43 am
@Raquel Morris and Mountain Man….
Beyond what I have written, what APS has done or not done is thier choice/decision. If that school system wants to pay those teachers forever, they are allowed to do just that.
The fact is that APS has drug their feet on these teachers in arranging for tribunal. I don’t know why. It doesn’t make sense to me.
Raquel Morris
February 27th, 2012
11:45 am
@HS Public Teacher,
And the teacher’s contract is subject to state law. The fact remains, you enjoy job protections that are unavailable to other employees in the marketplace. Those job protections, whether they stem from federal law, state law or your local teacher’s contract, combine to make it difficult to separate a teacher from the school system. Must be nice.
Hillbilly D
February 27th, 2012
11:46 am
however well meaning, people like me, 50+, really don’t like being lectured to by 20 somethings just out into the work force.
That goes for just about any subject, not just education.
paulo977
February 27th, 2012
11:46 am
teacher &mom ….Stick it out. Don’t be a five year statistic. Thirty years from now, you’ll be tired and ready for a well-deserved retirement. You can look back with pride at all the lives you have touched and the difference you made in helping them achieve their dreams.
______________________________________________________________
Retired teacher , mom of teachers ,& grandmom.: great encouragement .Emily has the necessary potential and I can assure her that it is the MOST important profession in the world .
HS Public Teacher
February 27th, 2012
11:46 am
@Raquel Morris – Again, you are incorrect. You state:
“The fact remains, you enjoy job protections that are unavailable to other employees in the marketplace.”
This is untrue. ALL State employees have this protection UNDER STATE LAW. It is not in the school system contract.
Why is this so hard for you to understand?
HS Public Teacher
February 27th, 2012
11:48 am
@Raquel Morris –
Finally, I have known many teachers to be escorted out of the door in the middle of their contract. There are different situations with various consequences…. JUST LIKE IN THE BUSINESS WORLD.
How do I know? I was in the business world for 15 years before teaching!
Raquel Morris
February 27th, 2012
11:50 am
And there’s the rub, HS Public Teacher, all STATE employees. Believe it or not, there are some people in this economy who don’t work for a government agency.
The bigger question is, how many ineffective teachers at your school were fired for nonperformance over the past year, 5 years or 10 years?
Hillbilly D
February 27th, 2012
11:59 am
I’ve worked with a lot of ineffective people in the private sector, who never got fired either.
Josh
February 27th, 2012
12:20 pm
A Georgia Tech grad is much better prepared to teach than any education school graduate.
Teacher
February 27th, 2012
12:20 pm
Thank you, Emily for providing a thorough view of Teach for America.
No matter your view on TFA, you have to understand that only 5% of applicants are selected. This process selects the best from the nation’s universities that choose to give up AT LEAST 2 years to teach in a low-income school.
I’m appalled at how some people say they won’t call TFA teachers “teachers” because of inexperience. TFA Teachers have classroom responsibilities just like those that went through a traditional teaching program. They are responsible for teaching curriculum, grading, differentiation, parent involvement, faculty meetings, classroom management, and everything else that “traditional” teachers go through. To answer a question- YES, TFA teachers have the same class size and load as “traditional teachers”.
Yes, TFA has a bad reputation. But that is because people do not understand the mission of TFA. Teach for America has NEVER said that the GOAL or MISSION of TFA is to keep teachers in low income schools.
If you are a reasonable adult, especially one that has teaching experience, you know firsthand that the achievement gap can’t be narrowed by classroom teachers alone.
The purpose of Teach for America is to expose leaders to the realities of the achievement gap so they can go work in educational policy, administration and government to actually DO SOMETHING to close the gap.
The achievement gap can’t be closed by teachers alone. It just can’t. That’s why TFA alumni leave teaching. To grow their impact beyond the classroom.
In fact, about 30% of Metro Atlanta Teach for America members DO stay in education for at least 5 years. Another 30% go on to graduate school majoring in educational policy or administration. About 10% work for Teach for America professionally- working with new teachers, coaching, training, district strategy and outreach. Some teachers even go to med school so they can go back and work in low income areas where they taught.
Yes, TFA teachers are young. But who said all experienced teachers are good teachers? TFA teachers go through extensive training before the classroom experience.
Would you like to go teach at a low income school? Then by all means, please go ahead and sign up. We’d love to have you. The problem is that most people want to complain or judge instead of actually doing something. At least TFA teachers sign up voluntarily to make some kind of change instead of just posting about it on an online forum.
Oh, and one more thing- TFA teachers MUST enroll in a certification program and complete it by their second year. Most teachers choose to go on for their Master’s in education. Why would TFA teachers enroll in these programs if they didn’t want to do SOMETHING about the achievement gap?
Please, before you judge what you think Teach for America is, I urge you to contact a teacher or call the Teach for America office.
@ Tonya C.
February 27th, 2012
12:22 pm
Fact: None of the teachers implicated in the APS cheating scandal were TFA corps members.
Frustrated
February 27th, 2012
12:24 pm
Please, before you judge TFA teachers, give the office a call. Would YOU like to go teach in a low income school? No? Then stop attacking teachers who volunteered to do so.
Frustrated
February 27th, 2012
12:25 pm
Also, TFA never said that the mission was to have teachers in schools. You know just as well as I do that the achievement gap can’t be fixed by classroom teachers. TFA teachers become leaders in education and government so they can actually DO something about it.
Elizabeth
February 27th, 2012
12:27 pm
Maureen: Why did you change hurtles to hurdles? It was not a typing error ( I make plenty of those in this blog!). It was a usage error that any college graduate should not make. It only demonstrates my point about the lack of real knowledge coming from young people who do not regard correct grammar and usage as significant workplace skills.When you change these, you are helping her to misrepresent herself and her skills.
And for those of you who blasted me about not wanting to “llearn” from a 22 year old, I have learned plenty from some of them. But when they suggest things that I know do not work, yes, I do resent the smugness and superiority.Being told that I am an “old, burned out, bitter Betty.” because of my years of experience is an insult. I am not. Experience counts. I happen to work for a principal who was 26 when he became principal of our school 5 years ago.. Too young, you say? Not this man! He is the best administrator I have EVER worked under, and he has taught me plenty. But then, he hired me BECAUSE of my experience, and he values me also.
HS Public Teacher
February 27th, 2012
12:36 pm
@Raquel Morris –
You ask, “The bigger question is, how many ineffective teachers at your school were fired for nonperformance over the past year, 5 years or 10 years?”
I would wager that the percentage is the same or larger compared to other “businesses”.
The actual bigger question is…. why are you so very negative regarding teachers?
HS Public Teacher
February 27th, 2012
12:39 pm
@Raquel Morris -
The funny thing is that you have not admitted that you are wrong. You have danced around the facts and have slightly changed your story from post to post. Yet, you pretend to ’stand firm’ on your position.
You said that IN THE CONTRACTS teachers are given some sort of job protection. That is a lie. Can you admit that part?
Maureen Downey
February 27th, 2012
12:54 pm
@Elizabeth, On essays and columns that I post, I follow the AJC policy of correcting errors. I don’t have a copy desk reading behind me so I often miss errors. But I do edit the pieces that I post. Very few pieces go up without any changes, as we have style formats that we must follow.
Maureen
Raquel Morris
February 27th, 2012
12:56 pm
@HS Public Teacher,
I am not negative regarding teachers. I am negative on teachers who don’t perform. My life was very positively impacted by the effective public school teachers I had. Of course there are terrible employees in the private sector who manage to skate through and keep their jobs, but unlike teachers, the paper-pusher down the hall is not working in a field with life or death consequences. I just find it very troubling that the teacher lobby would be so opposed to motivated and effective teachers, like the TFA in this blogpost, just because they don’t fit a certain mode.
If one ineffective teacher is allowed access to our children year after year, that is one too many. The children don’t have time to wait on the teacher’s employment protections to run out. If there is a TFA who can step in and reach that student, right now, then we need that TFA.
2 in college; 1 left to go
February 27th, 2012
12:58 pm
What idiotic rhetoric are you all spewing? Here is a young, motivated, engaging teacher who is obviously having a positive impact on somebody’s kids and all you people do is turn your bitter tirades on her. She by her own admission has just started teaching, so whatever gripes you have didn’t start nor will they end with her. You SHOULD be encouraging her to continue her efforts AND to bring her friends along as well.
It is likely that you treat and engage with your students the same way you interact on this page. Who wants to be around a bitter, cynical teacher who not only hates their job and has a negative perspective on the benefits of their own efforts.
You all are the very teachers who need to be replaced.
Beverly Fraud
February 27th, 2012
1:00 pm
“Unfortunately, teachers and some board members were critical of the proposal, saying it undermined staff morale. How, I wondered, would hiring Teach for America teachers undermine staff morale?”
Let’s see, someone who has invested twenty years in a career, twenty years in their STUDENTS, has undertaken untold hours more professional training than the Teach for America candidate, doesn’t want to lose it ALLMbecause some administrator tries to make THEMSELVES look good by cutting the budget with a “cure du jour” that chances are, will leave the profession in a couple of years?
Oh how HORRIBLE they should be upset!
Now is it ALSO possible someone has been a BANE to the existence of students for the better part of twenty years, (can’t be accused of “checking out mentally” because they never had the acumen to “check IN”) and is getting a little nervous the gravy train is coming to a halt?
Yes, that IS true, whether or not teachers like to admit it.
And finally, is it a DISTINCT possibility, due to the ever present specter of RETALIATION, that the dedicated, COMPETENT teacher is at a GREATER risk of losing their job than the “kiss up incompetent”?
THAT is unfortunately true, and that’s what MANY of the “let’s blame the teacher” crowd simply cannot comprehend.
For Bootney
February 27th, 2012
1:09 pm
@bootney — If you are going to criticize someone’s grammar and spelling in public, you really should run a spell check yourself. It’s grammar, not grammer. I hope you are not, as you state, speaking as one of our “professional educatators” (spell check that one, too). I fear that you are not just pretending to be a teacher to have a bit of fun but, instead, are really an example of the kind people we have teaching our kids!
jm
February 27th, 2012
1:17 pm
Many of the teachers comments on this blog strike me as the reason our education system is failing its customer, the student.
It confirms that the teachers are the problem. Not the students. We must empower our principals to have free reign to fire second rate teachers and then hold the principals accountable for the performance of the school and its teachers.
Why TFA Stinks
February 27th, 2012
1:21 pm
#1) As a professional teacher/educator, I find it denigrating to the Profession of Teaching to say that people can be prepared to teach in 5 to 6 weeks. Simply b/c people have attended Brown or Yale or wherever may mean they are intelligent, it does not mean they have some innate understanding of the complexity of teaching and learning that genuine teacher preparation programs instill in their candidates. It is offensive and pretentious to think otherwise.
#2) Equally denigrating to the profession is the notion that teaching is something you can “dabble in.” Oh, do it for a couple of years, assuage your (usually white/suburban/privileged) guilt and then get on with your “real life” in law school or business school or wherever. Teaching, you see, isn’t all that important and anybody can do it for a couple of years (which, by the way, their own statistics don’t particularly bear out — check out what their attrition rate is in the first year – and consider it’s their statistics, so adjust for reality). How do we feel about “Nurses for America?” Or, better, “Doctors for America?” The lack of respect for teaching as a profession is historic — based on seeing it as a “feminine” profession and one that does not pay what “real” jobs pay. Teach for America continues to support that historic disrespect for the profession by treating it as something one can do until something “better” (read high paying, more prestigious, etc.) comes along.
#3) TFA is patronizing, patriarchal, and colonialist. It continues a “wonderful” tradition of upper class noblesse oblige which says, essentially, “Well, we will take a little time out of our (important) lives to help you poor children of color (briefly) and then we’ll leave (because we can!).”
#4) Little or no decent support is supplied to the Novice Teachers who go out into some of the most difficult and stressful schools in our cities. Anyone who knows teaching will tell you that support and genuine mentoring are essential in the first few years of teaching.
#5) Many districts see TFA “volunteers” as fodder (there’s a wonderful piece in The Onion, online, about this) and shift them around willy-nilly to “fill in” gaps they have in staffing. How does that help anyone — and, particularly, how does it help the students these “volunteers” are supposed to be serving?
#6) TFA perpetuates the miserable conditions in urban schools. It allows politicians to claim, “Look, something’s being done” when, in fact, no significant change is occurring. In all its time in existence TFA has NEVER made a policy statement that their real goal is to improve urban schools to the point of making TFA unnecessary. Their motto, if they were sincere in improving schools, should be “Put us out of business.” But that’s not their goal. TFA has become a cottage industry, and a self-perpetuating one at that, which allows the mass of society to look the other way and essentially say, “See, there’s really no hope for those urban schools (and those children who are, clearly, “unteachable”). Teach for America keeps trying and there’s no progress.” TFA is, at best, a medicated band-aid but a band-aid nonetheless. Our urban schools are hemorrhaging and TFA is a band-aid — and that’s fine because in the world of Fox News, that looks as if an effort is being made. It’s clearly the fault of the children and their families if there’s no decrease in the “achievement gap.”
#7) For those who survive TFA and then join their ranks as recruiters or “Executive Directors” or whatever, their allegiance to the organization is cult-like. It is not a Learning Organization whose goal is to better the schools. Like some evangelical sect, their goal is to recruit more members, receive more recognition (usually from right-wing “do away with public schools” types), and continue to sing their own praises as saviors of some sort (“If we weren’t there, who would be?” Which begs the deeper questions about “How can we actually fix the system instead of putting our TFA finger in the dyke?”).
http://www.biljohnson.com/thoughts-on-tfa.html
irisheyes
February 27th, 2012
1:25 pm
@jm, that’s great. Now, tell me how you will determine who is 2nd rate and who is 1st rate. Are 1st rate teachers the ones will the lesson plans with all of the standards listed? Are 1st rate teachers the ones who stick to the curriculum calendar religiously and make no deviations? Are 1st rate teachers the ones who have brightly colored word walls and well written essential questions? Are 1st rate teachers the ones who have students who can parrot the answers back perfectly?
OR, are 1st rate teachers something a little different??
(BTW, before everyone gets their panties in a wad, it’s conference day. And, I have time to post, since the parent of a student who is currently working at least a year behind chose not to come.)
jm
February 27th, 2012
1:27 pm
irisheyes – the principal will determine that. And if the principal doesn’t perform, he / she will be fired.
Good principals know who the good teachers are and who the bad ones are.
get it?
To Tonya C from Good Mother
February 27th, 2012
1:30 pm
You ask a good question “Good Mother:
Just an FYI, APS is the LARGEST recipient/participant in the TFA program in the state of Georgia. Just so you know. How’s that been working out?”
Great! I love TFAs and wish we had more of them. What I don’t want is the teacher my child has who has an education degree. She can’t use common simple, standard English. Her spoken English is atrocious and her written English is an embarrassment to everyone. My child’s classroom has children from several differenet countries and each of those parents, who were born and educated in a foreign country in a foreign language speak better English than she does. My child has picked up the horrific speech of his/her teacher “If your child need to use the bathroom…” “I aksed him a quershun….” “My student have inform me…”
This, from an EDUCATION major. pffffft. some education. I’ll take a 22 year old smiling Georgia Tech math grad, offer to clean her classroom, provide her with every piece of office supply she needs and thank her and God every day for her.
Good Mother
Tonya C.
February 27th, 2012
1:36 pm
I wasn’t referencing the cheating scandal. That’s secondary. The fact is that while alternative programs are HEAVILY emphasized in APS (not only TFA, also TAPP and a foreign-teacher program) the results aren’t stunning. No better than the “friends and family” plan.
But I’m biased. I will no longer let my kids have teachers under the age of 25 if I can help it. Too many poor experiences too count.
Tonya C.
February 27th, 2012
1:44 pm
jm:
The problem…the system is full of poor principals. As a parent, I can attest to that. And standards? Teaching in a public school as a good or great teacher doesn’t necessairly mean squat. I’ve seen Teachers of the Year laid off before one with a MULTITUDE of parent complaints. Popularity contests didn’t end in high school. Too often poor or average teachers aren’t moved out of teaching; just out of the classroom.
To Hillbilld D
February 27th, 2012
1:46 pm
You write “however well meaning, people like me, 50+, really don’t like being lectured to by 20 somethings just out into the work force. That goes for just about any subject, not just education.”
It doesn’t matter what 50+ year olds “LIKE”. In the real world plenty of we old folks answer to, report to, are managed by young whipper snappers. Age has nothing to do with it.
If the 22 year old has an idea, listen to it. Just because we are older doesn’t make us smarter.
Good Mother
irisheyes
February 27th, 2012
1:54 pm
So, if my principal decides that they don’t like me because I don’t toe the party line and do what’s best for my students, I’m out of a job? What criteria should prinicpals use to determine 1st rate teachers? We wouldn’t want students to be graded on such vague guidelines as “the teacher will know who is smart or not”, so why are we OK with grading teachers like that?
BTW, yet another no-show!
NolaDawg
February 27th, 2012
1:56 pm
Quoting: Josh February 27th, 2012 12:20 pm “A Georgia Tech grad is much better prepared to teach than any education school graduate.”
This is a common fallacy. Being an expert in a subject does not mean you can teach it. Some people have a natural gift for being able to explain things in ways such that those with less understanding of the subject will be able to catch on. Others need instruction in how to do this. Some, no matter the preparation, just can’t do it. I’ve had the honor of working with many brilliant people–some of which couldn’t teach a kid to add 2 + 2 if their life depended on it.
jm
February 27th, 2012
2:13 pm
“So, if my principal decides that they don’t like me because I don’t toe the party line and do what’s best for my students, I’m out of a job?”
And if your principal fires good teachers, he’ll be out of a job because the principal will be held to the performance standard. You obviously don’t get it.
“the teacher will know who is smart or not”
Who does the grading? (answer: teachers using judgement) Irish eyes, you are a symptom of the problem in education.
jm
February 27th, 2012
2:14 pm
“I don’t toe the party line and do what’s best for my students, I’m out of a job?”
IF YOU DON’T DO WHAT’S BEST FOR YOUR STUDENTS, YOU SHOULD BE FIRED.
Good grief what a disaster this country is in because of teachers like you. Vouchers please…..
Batgirl
February 27th, 2012
2:17 pm
@9:12, “Good Mother” informed me that no on outside of education looks for teaching experience. Maybe, but they often look at former TFA teachers in the same way they look at Peace Corps volunteers.
Also, I did not in any way belittle Emily. I said that I was glad she was seeking alternative certification and looked forward to hearing from her in 10-15 years.
Yes, I am a teacher, but I am also the school librarian, so Emily will have to go back to college and get a master’s degree before I have to worry about protecting my turf from her. I’m more worried about my system’s central office deciding they don’t need certified librarians than I am about Emily and her friends at TFA.
jm
February 27th, 2012
2:17 pm
Tonya
“The problem…the system is full of poor principals.”
And bad principals should be fired. Charter schools would also help solve the problem of bad principals.
“Too often poor or average teachers aren’t moved out of teaching; just out of the classroom.”
Because there are crummy principals, which means the school system isn’t doing its job. Which is why all public schools should be converted to charter schools.
There are good principals available out there.
jm
February 27th, 2012
2:19 pm
“protecting my turf from her.”
You teachers have a silo win-lose mentality. It’s pathetic frankly. There are plenty of good teachers and staff out there, but clearly you are not among them.
Please do our kids a service and quit.
irisheyes
February 27th, 2012
2:21 pm
But, I asked, what standards are you going to use to determine whether a teacher is first rate or not, and all you gave me was “the principal knows who is good”. I use STANDARDS to determine whether my students are ready to move on to the next grade or not. I am given a grading scale to determine whether a student earns an A or a D. So far, the only STANDARDS that systems seem to be using are test scores of students. What other STANDARDS do you suggest? And stop using the tired adage “You’re just part of the problem”. That shows you don’t want dialogue, you just want someone to blame. Fine. Blame me. Or we could blame the parents who haven’t shown up for their children’s conferences, even though I bent over backward to give them the times that they said they wanted. But, if you’ll sleep better believing that I love the fact that there are poor teachers in my building, and that I only work 6 hours a day for 6 months out of the year, and that I only have to work for 10 years before I get a gold-plated pension plan that is funded completely by the taxpayers, then go for it.
BTW, you can have an awful principal and still have a school get excellent test scores. I know. I lived it for two years.
irisheyes
February 27th, 2012
2:24 pm
jm, you misunderstood me. What I meant was that I don’t toe the party line and instead do what’s best for my students. But, your inference shows me that you already have some preconceived notions of teachers.
BTW, would you like this charter school?
http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/controversy-over-scientology-influence-clouds-future-of-pinellas-charter/1217239
Beverly Fraud
February 27th, 2012
2:25 pm
“It confirms that the teachers are the problem. Not the students.”
Just waiting for jm to explain how, when a student PHYSICALLY ASSAULTS a teacher, and the principal allows him to return to class with MINIMAL consequences, it “confirms” the teachers are the problem.
Maybe you are not aware how NOT uncommon an occurrence that is.
And as far as students being “customers” Fine. As long as “businesses” (schools) are allowed to REMOVE them from the establishment when they violate if not outright OBLITERATE the established social order.
weetamoe
February 27th, 2012
2:25 pm
Several years ago the ajc carried a article about a group of brilliant young Spelman grads who had secured positions at TFA. They mentioned that a few of their classmates, education majors, had been turned down because TFA did not want to hire education majors. I would advise Emily to be very careful. We have seen in many news reports from NY, NJ, and WI how dangerous teachers can be when they feel threatened.
jm
February 27th, 2012
2:27 pm
irisheyes, since the teachers are against using student testing scores, we can’t very well use those to measure the results and quality of teachers can we.
Basically, teachers want to be unaccountable. That can’t happen. By making them accountable to principals, it allows flexibility and intelligence that student test scores can’t completely provide.
But if you want to rely solely on student test results, fine. I look forward to you singing the praises of hiring-firing based on test scores.
tim
February 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
Millions of employee arrive at 6 and will leave at 5 everyday. Don’t pat yourself on the back Emily.
BTW……….Did you write your letter on taxpayer time. If you did….shame on you.
jm
February 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
“when a student PHYSICALLY ASSAULTS a teacher, and the principal allows him to return to class with MINIMAL consequences”
If that happens, the principal should be fired. Disruptive students should be sent to remedial schools and handled by people specially trained to contend with students of that nature.
Tonya C.
February 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
jm:
I’m more than aware GREAT principals exist. But to look to charters as a solution for all this….delusion at its finest. I am am a advocate of charter schools and a former charter-school parent. Again, popularity contests don’t stop at the school level. Look at the competency of many of the school superintendents.
Irisheyes:
I feel for you. I am appalled by the number of parents who miss parent-teacher conferences. Even at the kindergarten level.
shaking my head
February 27th, 2012
2:31 pm
I’m saddened by a lot of the comments on this topic. It’s apparent that most of the naysayers are current or former teachers or administrators. If you accept or concede to the status quo, then IMO you should not be even remotely allowed to interact with students. There are tons of “education” majors in our school system now, and that still has not a boost. Just because you major in education (whether it be a dream or easy way out of college) that does not make you a good teacher. I would rather have someone that has an advanced degree in Math with a passion to teach than to have an “education” major teaching math to our students any day of the week.
Our entire education system is fundamentally flawed in that we entrust over 65% of our children’s time to individuals that may not have the skills or passion to teach and reach students effectively. There are some great teachers out there, but they are in the small, small minority. We need a system, similar to a doctor’s residency, in which potential teachers are trained and groomed into being teachers. Some made comments about the “summer institute” of TFA, but that’s more than a lot of these so-called teachers received.
My advice to current teachers that feel threatened is to embrace and be a part of the effective change that we need otherwise your “profession” as we know it will be replaced with something or someone more effective.
jm
February 27th, 2012
2:39 pm
Tonya 2:29 that is why the state should have the ability to shutdown underperforming charter schools
I don’t care if the principal plays favorites or not, if he/she gets results. Which is what matters.
The petty favoritism, territoriality, gossip sniping garbage doesn’t matter one iota at the end of the day. Get past the bickering, and produce good quality students. That is what matters.
The Deal
February 27th, 2012
2:43 pm
Not sure how Emily can be criticized for her age. Aren’t there education majors who begin teaching at age 22? Do they get the criticism and hate and “just wait 15 years” that Emily is getting? Or do teachers somehow have to magically drop from the sky with 15 years of experience in order to be good enough for some of the people in this discussion?
For the record, every profession deals with “outsiders” telling them how to do their job or programs or website that purport to do as good of a job. Doctors have “doc in the box”. Lawyers have legalzoom.com. Anyone who dedicates his or her life to any profession can feel marginalized by an “outsider” who either tries to tell them how to do it better or moves up the ladder quickly. It’s not just TFA and the teaching profession.
Still, just like really, really bad teachers can come out of an education doctoral program, really, really good teachers-to-be can come from TFA. The whole range is possible. If you’re going to stereotype TFA as young, useless kids, then you have to allow the bitter, old, jaded teacher stereotype, too. They both exist.
And just because someone doesn’t know they want to be a teacher when they declared a major their 2nd year in college doesn’t mean they won’t ever get the desire to do that later. TFA allows for that.
At the heart of this blog’s argument is that Cobb’s administration was going to use TFA to displace experienced teachers, en masse, at a time when there are experienced teachers out of work. This doesn’t negate TFA’s mission or usefulness; it just means it wasn’t the time or place for Cobb right now.
Tonya C.
February 27th, 2012
2:50 pm
jm:
Then that leaves a whole in the education for those students. Look, it can work, but it is far from idealistic. I moved from FL, where all of this was trumpeted as the change that would re-make the school system. They are still struggling with lack of results and unintended consequences to this day. Producing good-quality students sounds like a great soundbite. The fact is, that is already happening. The problem is no one has figured out a successful way to do it on a large scale.
Beverly Fraud
February 27th, 2012
2:51 pm
All this wailing and gnashing of teeth. How much further along would we be if we even spent a TENTH of the effort we do on “fixing the teacher” on holding the STUDENT accountable for learning AND behavior?
Or are we not allowed to ask that question?
Tonya C.
February 27th, 2012
2:53 pm
I support TFA in areas where there is a true, documented, unmet need for teachers. That is sure as heck no the case in Cobb County. They have a school of ed next door (KSU). Why not just start a program students from there more hands-on experience in the classroom in return for a commitment to teach in Cobb Schools? A residency- like program?
Just A Teacher
February 27th, 2012
3:00 pm
Emily, when I first graduated from college, I couldn’t find a teaching position either. I became a substitute teacher for 3 nearby school systems so I could earn some money and get my foot in the door. After one semester, I took a job in a very low performing school in south Georgia. I had to uproot my family and move, but I was earning a living by teaching. After 1 1/2 years in that job, I found another school I liked better and went to work there. I wish you the best of luck and wanted to let you know that an intelligent motivated person like you can find work as a teacher. You might have to move, but if Cobb County doesn’t want you, you’ll be much better off going somewhere else.
just another parent
February 27th, 2012
3:07 pm
Three cheers for Emily! I wish you could teach my kids. Thank you for taking a stand, and assuming the risks doing so entails.
Reading these negative, defensive posts remind me of the biblical David and Goliath. A young free thinking kid right out of college taking on the big bad teacher machine. Are you guys afraid of a little competition from a 22 year old with a half year of teaching experience? What’s the matter? A degree from Ga. Tech isn’t good enough? Scoring in the 98% percentile of the GACE isn’t good enough? She takes the time and effort to convey to the public the characteristics and attitude of a typical TFA teacher, and the best you guys can do is belittle her because of her age, and supposed naivety? All you can muster are unsubstantiated premises about her values, intentions, aspirations, etc. then attack her on them? Is that the best you can do? Is that all you got? What’s the matter? The truth hurts?
Mom
February 27th, 2012
3:44 pm
I appreciate the input from Teacher at 12:20 on the true goal of Teach for America. It does not change my mind however, and if anything, makes me even more opposed to TFA. I cannot see how this program can be a long term solution to any of the problems with low performing schools. Sending enthusiastic, intelligent, 22 year olds into the inner city for two years at a time looks great, sure, but it is a gimmick–a stunt–its not a real solution to real problems.
Further, its simply insulting to the education profession to argue that TFA creates a pool of experienced future education “leaders.” We already have a pool of experienced education leaders and they already know what we need to do to fix our schools. They tell us all the time. They have been telling us for years. But we never accept those solutions because tax payers (like me) and politicians do not have the will to do so. We want the solution to be something easier, less expensive, and most of all, less politically terrifying.
The premise of TFA is flawed–and lets be honest here, the premise is that these young people are smarter, because they are not education majors (wow!) and more enthusiastic, because they are young, naive, and not invested in the system. They are just passing through–”giving up two years” to teach the poor. Like missionaries. And for some reason, that means parents are supposed to trust them to be better teachers and eventually, better leaders of teachers, than the experienced, highly trained professional force that we already have in place. How does that make any sense?
I have a better idea, lets forget about gimmicks and support the teachers, administrators, and education system we have now. Lets stop insulting them, berating them publicly, picking over the details of their compensation as if they were welfare recipients, and constantly questioning their judgment on matters we know little or nothing about. Lets stop pretending that the bad teachers we all know exist are representative of all teachers–thinking that way just gives and excuse to blame teachers for problems that we know have their roots elsewhere. Finally, lets praise our good teachers the way we do the TFA recruits. If those young people are “giving up two years” to teach–if their presence in the classroom is a sacrifice–what does that say about the good teachers who have “given up” 10, 20 or 30 years? How is their service not the same sacrifice? Why is Emily “giving up 2 years,” but other teachers on this board are just losers? I don’t get that.
As a parent I do not want gimmicks like this presented as solutions to failing schools and failing policies. I want my government to have the will to make real changes with real long lasting solutions using the resources and professionals that we already have in place. I simply do not understand the argument that the cure for education in our country is to reach out to noneducation professionals. Its insulting, arrogant, and ultimately, making things worse for our children as we all spin around and around in circles looking for solutions in all the wrong places.
jm
February 27th, 2012
3:48 pm
Tonya C
“The problem is no one has figured out a successful way to do it on a large scale.”
I agree its not easy. But Asia does it. We can too.
jm
February 27th, 2012
3:49 pm
just another parent – amen
To Mom from good Mom
February 27th, 2012
3:54 pm
Mom makes a comment and asks a fair question “And for some reason, that means parents are supposed to trust them to be better teachers and eventually, better leaders of teachers, than the experienced, highly trained professional force that we already have in place. How does that make any sense?”
The reason it makes sense is because the young, very bright, enthusiastic TFA teacher is not jaded. The TFA teacher doesn’t dwell on all the problems and doesn’t dwell on the past. The enthusiastic employee has a can-do attitude and attitude matters.
If you read these blogs enough, mom, you will feel all the burned-out Betty type teachers who say things like “I’ve given up. I don’t care. I’m just going to coast for the next four years until retirement.”
Surely, a mom like you and other moms like me value someone with a GA Tech degree in math who can and does work form 6 a.m. to 5 p.m. and cares and wants to work as a teacher rather than someone who wants to collect a paycheck until they retire.
Good Mother
Ronin
February 27th, 2012
3:56 pm
I applaud the actions of Emily. We need more young instructors who bring new ideas to the teaching profession. With all due respect to the teaching establishment; it’s painfully obvious that the current method of delivery is not working.
Don’t get me wrong, there are some fantastic public school teachers and some who should be escorted out the door. However, the political climate at many schools often involves power struggles between different teachers and groups. Group A has “always done it this way” and that should never change. Group B (TFA types) builds a better mousetrap but has trouble getting “their product” to market because it doesn’t conform to the established standards. It comes down to pure politics. What’s lacking is another option for parents who are stuck in a failing district.
If the other 49 TFA candidates are as motivated and energized as Emily, hire them all.
seen it all
February 27th, 2012
4:06 pm
Mountain man said it all for me. He is exactly right. I used to work for the Cobb County School District. People do things like this. Areas like South Cobb are considered “less desirable” when compared to West and East Cobb because of the racial and socioeconmic differences between the areas. Everybody wants to work in the East and West Cobb schools because East Cobb schools are “old money” white neighborhoods and West Cobb is composed of mostly white, upper class suburbanites. North Cobb is made up of mostly white, working class people. All of these areas are considered before South Cobb, an area of mostly minority students (20-60% black to 10-70% Hispanic, 10-20% white).
Many white new teachers take jobs in South Cobb because it is the only job they can get in the CCSD coming out of college. The other jobs are locked down by the veterans and there are few openings in those schools. After a year or two of experience, the newbies get out of South Cobb as soon as they can. The fact of the matter is that they never really wanted to work in those schools down south anyway. They don’t really like the children or the neighborhood. Hey, it’s their choice.
But most administrators nowadays, especially with the bad economy, will pass over these Teach for America, alternatively certified teachers. Why should they hire any of these people? There are plenty of decent, experienced, certified teachers out there they can choose from to fill one of the FEW openings they have.
Mountain Man
February 27th, 2012
4:08 pm
“I’ll take a 22 year old smiling Georgia Tech math grad, offer to clean her classroom, provide her with every piece of office supply she needs and thank her and God every day for her. ”
But you won’t vote to increase your taxes so we can permanently have teachers like that.
seen it all
February 27th, 2012
4:10 pm
Kim- another beautiful response that says it all. I need not say more.
Mountain Man
February 27th, 2012
4:10 pm
And you won’t vote in BOE members who will tell their principals to stand behind their teachers, stand up to those helicopter parents, solve the discipline problems, and hold back those that fail for the year!
Rick in ATL
February 27th, 2012
4:14 pm
The courageous Walter Williams, cast in the same mold as Bill Cosby and Spike Lee, says this:
“Students who have chosen education as their major have the lowest SAT scores of any other major. Students who have an education degree earn lower scores than any other major on graduate school admission tests such as the GRE, MCAT or LSAT. Schools of education, either graduate or undergraduate, represent the academic slums of most any university. They are home to the least able students and professors. Schools of education should be shut down.”
Now, you can quibble a little bit-some Business majors are equally bad students with equally bad college entrance exam scores. But I hope this shuts up the teachers who are whining about Emily’s lack of an education degree. That’s a feature, not a bug!
Mom
February 27th, 2012
4:18 pm
Ronin–I am asking sincerely–not to goad. In your thinking, how does TFA present a solution to the “current method of delivery,” the “political climate” at many schoosl, or offer “another option for parents who are stuck in a failing district.” I think all your points are valid. More than valid, in fact. I just don’t see how TFA is the answer to any of them. With the exception of mid-life career changers, every teacher in our schools was once 22 years old, enthusiastic, energetic, fresh out of school, and full of new ideas. Then time went by and they weren’t, and a new group of 22 year olds came through, and another, and still the same problems exist in public schools. I have met a lot of extremely intelligent, extremely enthusiastic young and old traditionally certified teachers. Are we to believe that Emily is more enthusiastic, more energetic, or simply smarter than the average traditionally certified teacher?
I ask because I think we need to question our assumptions about how and why we believe TFA is a solution, because our assumptions about the solution will guide us in our thinking about the probelm. If the argument is that we desire her over other enthusiastic 22 year olds because she is smarter, then we know the problem is that we need to do whatever is necessary to recruit smarter teachers. If the argument is that we seek her enthusiasm and motivation, then we know that our current policies that drain our teachers’ enthusiasm and motivation need to be changed. Do you see what I am thinking?
d
February 27th, 2012
4:29 pm
I’m going to start by saying that I am a proud member of NEA, GAE, and ODE….. I don’t care how a teacher comes to my profession if he or she can do the work. This does not mean that the student has the content knowledge alone – they actually have to be able to deliver the material in a way so that the students assigned to them can be successful. I have an undergraduate degree in field and a masters in Social Studies Education. I wouldn’t imagine being able to teach Economics without understanding the pedagogy behind it. Does this mean that I think it cannot be done? No, but I think that it does give an advantage to me over a potential alternatively certified teacher. Where I *do* have a problem with TFA is that it is such a short-term commitment to the profession. Yes, about half of teachers leave within the first 5 years, so we don’t need TFAs adding to that statistic. Come into the profession because you want to be in the profession, and not because you want to use the public schools and children as a stepping stone in a professional goal.
catlady
February 27th, 2012
4:40 pm
Well, we were all beginning teachers, and we all thought we could bring something new to the table. Emily, no doubt, feels the same. I am hopeful that she also brings a good attitude of willingness to learn. Her fellow teachers have MUCH to teach her. She would do well to pick their brains, and lose the “Great Me” attitude. Many, many teacher can claim similiar stellar records (not all teachers are bottom of the pile, as the AJC would have you believe).
Let’s follow her career. Maybe she will persist. Let’s do a follow-up every 2 years.
To Mom from Good Mother
February 27th, 2012
4:43 pm
Mom asks an honest question “Are we to believe that Emily is more enthusiastic, more energetic, or simply smarter than the average traditionally certified teacher?”
The answer is ….YES.
Especially the smarter part. She has a math degree from GA Tech. THAT is impressive. Any education degree at any university is a yawner at all universities except the Ivy Leagues. So when my sister in law graduated from Dartmouth, people were impressed…until she said she majored in education…and then everyone at the restaursant said…..”oh.”
No one is impressed by an education major.
Good Mother
KIM
February 27th, 2012
4:50 pm
@William Casey: I can’t even figure what you want to say in your comment to me. I could not care less where Emily graduated from. GT does not a math teacher make…any more than ANY univeristy does. But one thing I know: knowing content alone does NOT make a teacher. Oftentimes the native speaker of a foreign language is the worst taecher because he’/she cannot understand why a non speaker does not understand. And so it goes that way with all content areas. My point (and I thought this was what the article was about) had to do with why Cobb might not want to hire TFA candidates. They may actually not need to go with TFA if they have good candidates who know content and pedagogy. It costs less and you get greater value. Maybe a GT graduate IS a good teacher, but maybe not. TFA has a good reputation for sending out smart people…not smart teachers. Teachers need to be smart and talented, trained and ready to go. With all due respect to GT, it is arrogant to think being graduated from there makes one ready to teach. I know from experience with a MIT grad that is NOT the case. Saddest situation imaginable for the students. When I was a principal I could always tell when I got this call “I am a chemical engineer” or “I am a CPA” and “I have decided I’ve always wanted to teach.” Yeah. Right. I know ONE former chem. engineer who WENT BACK TO SCHOOL to get teaching credentials and has turned into a DEDICATED educator. He has not taken educating students as a stop gap until a better paying job came along. ONE. ONE.
To Mountain man from good Mother
February 27th, 2012
5:00 pm
you wrote about my post “But you won’t vote to increase your taxes so we can permanently have teachers like that.’
I have voted and voted and voted to raise taxes and it never got us anything. SPLOST was a joke. We never got the additions our overcrowded school desperately needed and my property taxes sure have increased too.
Why Hire TFAs? GM
February 27th, 2012
5:04 pm
“But most administrators nowadays, especially with the bad economy, will pass over these Teach for America, alternatively certified teachers. Why should they hire any of these people? There are plenty of decent, experienced, certified teachers out there they can choose from to fill one of the FEW openings they have.”
Because TFAs are not jaded and entrenched in turmoil. They are also a “try it before you buy it” type of commodity. To fire a traditional public school teacher is very difficutl and almsot impossible to get rid of a tenured one.
School systems use TFAs a lot like businesses use contractors. It allows the company or system to see what they are capable of before making a long term commitment that costs them a lot in pensions and benefits. If a TFA doesn’t work out after two years…buh bye…if a contractor doesn’t work out …buh bye…no paper trails, no reasons, just buh bye.
employees and traditional teachers take a lot of time to document and a great deal of effort to get rid of. In the long run, TFAs are much cheaper, just like contractors.
GM
FYI
February 27th, 2012
5:25 pm
@ Good Mother, 4:43: “So when my sister in law graduated from Dartmouth, people were impressed…until she said she majored in education…and then everyone at the restaursant said…..”oh.”
Lying again, Good Mother….Dartmouth College doesn’t HAVE a major in Education.
phones
February 27th, 2012
5:35 pm
gotta give that round to FYI
ouch facts hurt
phones
February 27th, 2012
5:41 pm
but on a more erudite note, education itself took a nose dive in the USA when they banned dunce caps from the classroom. I remember the meeting when the ban was proposed. I warned everyone but nobody would listen. I told them that teachers would have no effective remedy for truancy, illiteracy, and class clowns. A similar drop in discipline occured years before the dunce cap ban when they banned castor oil from the classroom. I mean, how much can the system rely on the school cafeteria’s Tuesday Shepherd’s Pie to maintain the standards that were set long ago by our ancestral curiculuum?
I don’t know, sometimes I just wanna blank it all and start my own school.
Ole Guy
February 27th, 2012
5:41 pm
When the kid even gives the teacher dirty looks, much less physical assualt, the kid needs to have his butt paddled until those cheeks glow. I know I know! It’s agin de law. Why…up to a certain point in time…this was considered routine practice in dealing with kids who have neither a sense of self-repect, self discipline, nor respect for authority. Generations…MY generation…as screwed up as any-and-all kids are prone to be, somehow grew up to become at least semi-productive. I do not care to repeat the litany of ever-increasing social ills, but does anyone detect some sort of possible correlation between corporal no-nonsense/no _ hit punishment and a reasonably safe and productive society vs the current do-as-you-damn-well-please environment and the fine mess of the circus which masquarades as 21st century education which is (politically, at least) supposed to get the younger gen prepared for bigger an’ better things? BULLFRIQUINPOOP!
The tea and crumpet approach toward education, much less toward instilling universal values within kids, IS A COMPLETE FAILURE.
mountain man
February 27th, 2012
5:43 pm
“Especially the smarter part. She has a math degree from GA Tech.”
I believe she said she had a business degree. Question is why would a business graduate from Ga Tech EVER want to be a teacher in South Cobb? Answer: she doesn’t (unless she just can’t find any other job), she just wants to pad her resume.
paulo977
February 27th, 2012
5:51 pm
OleGuy ….RESTORE THE CLASSROOM TEACHER TO FULL CLASSROOM AUTHORITY.
____________________________________________________
I agree ….Teachers , whatever critics keep hurling at them , have attended courses and programs that deal with the disciplines related to teaching …..philosophy, psychology , curriculum and sociology , for starters. But when ,for the last several years , they reach the school system they are confronted by a climate, engineered by bureaucrats who are not educators and comprising rewards and punishments , that is not conducive to what they know to be real education. Most of them valiantly struggle on and manage to really TEACH not only the tests but also the whole child!! Of course a few forget what they have learned and resort to methods more in keeping with rigid rules ‘memorization’!! On the whole , teachers are the backbone of the school system and need our support.
Ole Guy
February 27th, 2012
5:52 pm
All these wonderful programs…as sexy and promising as they may seem, achieve absolutely nothing. Any foolish expectations that these efforts will result in anything of a positive nature would be tantamount to the belief that playing classical music to the fetus will result in a concert pianist. Stop playing (games) with yourselves, acquire a few professional and political spheroids and do the right things. All this educational snake oil only guarantees the state of continuing mediocrity within education.
mountain man
February 27th, 2012
5:53 pm
I think the administrator should fire ALL the teachers and they should take over their classes. Then we would all see how they could fix the system.
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
February 27th, 2012
5:59 pm
Emily,
I could easily have been you. I didn’t decide on a teaching career till after I graduated cum laude with a BA. I too was a top student with excellent grades and high scores on various standardized tests, but I won’t bore anyone with details. I could have followed a multitude of career paths. I tried a year of graduate school in Psychology, before transferring to the Education program. The difference between us is that I chose education as a long term career goal – something I intended to do for my entire working career.
I too started out in a low SES urban school, being reminded daily, “that poverty, broken homes, working parents, etc., are added hurdles” that my students, and I, needed to overcome. In fact, I have spent most of my teaching career in just such schools, working with such students day in and day out for years, not just for the two year commitment that TFA students are required to fulfill. I chose to work in those type schools even after I could have moved on, because I felt I was making a real difference in the lives of my students. I too have a box full of notes and letters from children and parents who were grateful for my guidance and support. I would love to have stayed, but I had to make a choice to either quit teaching, or move to a school were I would no longer be at risk of injury. I had been physically attacked one to many times, and when a student literally tried to hit me over the head with a wooden chair and was back in my classroom the next day, I knew I needed to find a school where the principal would support me and not hide behind a locked door.
I don’t resent you. I welcome young enthusiastic teachers, and hope you will remain in the field. However, that does not mean that I don’t have issues with the whole TFA program, and with the assumption people seem compelled to make that I am not as “smart” or “enthusiastic” as a TFA teacher just because I came through a traditional program.
First, because I spent most of my career in low SES schools, I have worked with several TFA teachers. Some were wonderful. Many were completely overwhelmed but what they faced. Only one stayed past their two year commitment, and several left before the first year was over. I did all I could to support them, giving them tips and lessons plans and holding their hand when necessary. In those struggling schools, you have to stick together as teachers, because often the administration will not offer you any real support. However, it takes time and energy to help a new teacher get his or her feet under her, and I have to admit, it was disheartening to spend hours helping someone become a better teacher, only to have them walk out the door and be replaced within a couple years.
Plus, the TFA teachers received a lot of additional support that those of us who went through the “traditional” programs never received. I was tossed in it was basically “sink or swim”. The support TFA teachers get should be extended to ALL new teachers, and maybe we wouldn’t have such high turnover within the first few years.
For a system to accept TFA members, they have to commit to additional TFA teachers in the future. That means they have to place a certain number, even if it means laying off traditional teachers to make room. TFA teachers are also far cheaper than veteran teachers, so budget strapped districts might well see an advantage in dismissing more expensive teachers (like me) in favor of TFA teachers, even if the veteran teachers are doing a fine job.
Frankly, I suspect the TFA program as part of a nationwide attempt to restructure public education by shifting teaching away from a professional career field and more towards a short term commitment by cheaper, non-unionized employees, like TFA members, who can be paid low wages and offered no benefits or pensions because they won’t be staying long anyway. They are only in it for a couple years till they move on to their “real” careers. I have begun to see a particular “talking point” popping up in public discussions of educational reform that suggests teaching should not be a career, and that anyone who has taught for more than 10 years is obviously incapable of doing anything else and is a burned out loser. I am no loser just because I decided to dedicate my life to helping others and using my talents to teach.
Educational reformers talk about how TFA students are the cream of the crop, so why not work towards recruiting more “cream of the crop” teachers into the traditional field? Why not raise the standards for traditional educators? Why not require more of education majors? After all, if it is so beneficial for students to have those bright TFA teachers for a couple years, imagine what would happen if they had them their entire academic career! Oh, but that would mean making teaching a more attractive profession – attractive enough to entice those “high achieving” students into the traditional educational programs and away from more lucrative career choices. That would mean being willing promote smaller classes, better working conditions, and competitive pay! Can’t have that! This country consistently wants a Five-Star educational experience for their children at a Half-Star level of support.
You sound like an enthusiastic, dedicated young teacher. You sound like the type of teacher we need in the trenches, but you need to be aware that education these days (no matter how much I resent it) also involves a lot of behind the scenes politics – and TFA is right in the middle of it all.
Ole Guy
February 27th, 2012
6:09 pm
Paulo, in preparation for my teaching credential, I took all those nonesense courses in “how to”s…how to get little johnny to straighten up and fly right while tickling his belly. IT”S ALL HORSEDUNG!
Entering the teaching field after a career in the military, I had years of SUCCESSFULLY squaring away young folks, a mere months out of high school. There was/is absolutely no reason why those very same techniques…modulated, of course…cannot be employed in the classroom. Once kids fully understand that their behavioral options are restricted; the classroom teacher is lord and master of the “classroom universe”, they WILL repond favorably. Courses in the many flavors of psychology are fine, but the foo foo dust cannot simply be sprinkled upon the kid…NOTHING in education can be passive. EVERYTHING, from the delivery of subject matter to behavioral expectations, must come with ENFORCED performance goals. That’s the way it’s always been in the real world; that’s the way it has to be introduced at the earliest stages of the kids’ life. Any thoughts; any beliefs to the contrary only serve to guarantee future generational failure.
irisheyes
February 27th, 2012
6:10 pm
@I Love Teaching, I completely agree. What I don’t get is that when teachers express legitimate concerns about TFA (and I’ll admit I’ve never met one), we get told that we aren’t willing to change and are only there to collect a paycheck. That’s insulting. Did I miss the memo where we’re not allowed to express our concerns?
BTW, I had over half of my parents miss their scheduled conferences this afternoon. So now that means that I have to, on my own time, reschedule these conferences because most of the parents that missed have students who are working below grade level. And my own children will suffer because I have to be away from them longer while I try again meet with parents who can’t really be bothered to take 20 minutes out of their day to talk to me about their child’s education.
Old Physics Teacher
February 27th, 2012
6:18 pm
Never attribute to “enemy action” that which can be adequately explained by pure “human actions.”
Cobb pays one of the highest teacher supplements in the state – if not the top. The only first 4-year teachers that get jobs in Cobb are brand new education-degreed physics and chemistry teachers. Us old guys have seen them come and go. The newly minted physics-or chemistry-degreed individual who can’t get a job in-field then decides that “teaching is their life-calling.” They don’t last in the classroom any time at all. Emily MAY be the exception. I have no idea; however, the type of individual she is describing is rare indeed. When you pay top dollar – like Cobb dies – why risk it? They get tons of applications every day. I’m sure none of them say they couldn’t get a job in-field ,and they’re going to try teaching as a career.
Emily, Pay your “dues” first. Then ask for a transfer to the high-achieving schools when you’re got some experience under your belt. Other than that, apply to the schools in the rural areas. We’re always short of high content-knowledge individuals. Unfortunately, we don’t pay very well. Sometimes you’ve just got to “pay your dues” one way or the other.
28 year vet teacher
February 27th, 2012
7:06 pm
” What is more important when it comes to hiring educators: a teaching degree or an individual who believes that the achievement gap must be closed, and is willing to do anything necessary to make that a reality?”
Why on earth would you assume that those who have teaching degrees aren’t individuals who believe that the blah, blah, blah?
Your use of the word “or” shows your attitude towards those who have traveled the traditional route.
Dr. Monica Henson
February 27th, 2012
7:15 pm
First of all, thank you, Emily, for devoting your service via Teach for America, and for your heartfelt message!
@mountain man, who posted to Emily, “…as I imagine most Teach For America teachers do, are you going to do your very short stint in a low-SES school, then get a good job in East Cobb where the students are wonderful and they make you look like a great teacher no matter how you teach?”
Actually, what mountain man describes is what MOST traditionally-trained public school teachers in the United States do, not TFA teachers.
Dr. Monica Henson
February 27th, 2012
7:21 pm
Elizabeth posted about working with “‘fast track, boot camp’ teachers whose lack of knowledge of their subject is appalling. An English teacher who cannot speak or write correct English or teach grammar correctly. A math teacher who never took algebra in school and can’t explain fractions or spell correctly.A social studies teacher who does not understaand why Prince Philip is not King of England if his wife is Queen. A science teacher who cannot explain why hot water freezes faster than cold water.”
This is not the case with TFA teachers, who must demonstrate highly advanced subject-matter knowledge and academic excellent to be accepted into TFA. What you are describing sounds like folks who might have gotten into alternative certification programs that are far less rigorous. I used to train alternative certification candidates for The New Teacher Project in Massachusetts, and we used the TFA summer institute curriculum which was highly relevant and rigorous. Our participants were screened for subject-matter knowledge and skill and only the top applicants were accepted.
catlady
February 27th, 2012
7:45 pm
irisheyes, dontcha wish you could charge them $50 for a missed appointment, like the doctor does (as long as the parent chose the day and time for the meeting, that is) ? I would be a very wealthy woman!
Why is it the parents of kids doing well show up whenever you ask, but those parents whose children are years behind stand you up over and over (when they pick the day and time)? Apple fall far from the tree?
Hmmm
February 27th, 2012
7:58 pm
This has become a discussion about TFA versus education schools, and that debate will never cease.
A few things to point out:
1) Emily is a teacher in a suburban high school in Gwinnett. It is low income, but it is not in Atlanta as she states.
2) What is the purpose of her letter? She is gainfully employed, and the Cobb decision does not seem to directly affect her. The letter comes off as an attempt to gain praise under the guise of wanting to “speak out” about the Cobb decision. I say this because it does not appear that she did any research on the issue, but she does spend a great deal of time writing about herself.
3) Emily maybe a wonderful teacher. If she is, then kudos to her for the 6 months of work she’s put in so far, and may she keep it up for another 40!!! I sincerely mean that; however, her students have yet to take EOCTs or even finish a year with her. Why is everyone so convinced that she is an effective teacher? Beyond the Tech degree, she seems like a pretty run-of-the-mill teacher.
4) Her age is only an issue because she picked her major just 2 years ago, and she picked Business. If she is truly dedicated to the teaching profession, why not go get a Master’s degree in education? Many teachers have them, and she will need one if she is in it for the long haul.
5) There are so many unsung heroes in the classroom, it is a shame that this much attention is going to someone who has only been at it for a few months. I am lucky enough to be a teacher, and lucky enough to work with people who humble me constantly. Why won’t the AJC run stories about teachers who have dedicated their lives to teaching, and who have gone above and beyond for years? They exist. Find them. They aren’t going to come to you for recognition.
Fericita
February 27th, 2012
8:21 pm
To Emily Desprez –
Thank you for being such a dedicated and passionate teacher! I hope you continue to teach and change lives for many years. I tutored in a classroom with a TFA teacher in Harlem while getting my graduate degree, and saw first hand how wonderful and dedicated TFA teachers can be, despite minimal preparation.
My understanding is that TFA was designed to put smart, passionate, eager young adults in schools that were chronically understaffed – schools that sometimes even used subs to fill positions. The complaint from teachers in Cobb is not that TFA would be used to fill a void, it’s that they would be replacing teachers. If they were bad teachers, it would of course be cause for celebration. But in the last 3 or 4 years, Cobb has not renewed the contracts of limited contract employees (those hired after the start of the school year), part time employees, while those with less than 3 years experience have been let go or moved. That’s what’s bad for morale. Young, eager, new teachers are hearing that despite their degree and time in the classroom, they will be replaced by someone similar to them…who comes through TFA.
Nope John Paul II
February 27th, 2012
8:33 pm
It’s blogs like this one, an insignificant contention lost in the uncharted regions of reality, perpetuated by bored housewives and corpulent education tenures, that remind us why the world tends to collapse under its own mass. Very few of the responses actually reflect the content of Ms. Desprez’s petition. Nearly all of them avoid answering her question by pettily stabbing at insignificant aspects, like tone and grammar.
Although her voice does flirt somewhere between Miss America and Miss America’s to-bold-for-my-bad-self younger brother, something as shallow as that does not foil her efforts. Only a fool silences another on the sole presumption of youthful infidelity. Peel off the falsies and wipe off the gloss, and you find a strong-willed young women determined to make a difference. She has a true point to make, and if the only way to infiltrate the masses and spill the wisdom of her youth was to assume such a voice, then so be it. You can hardly blame her for caking on the rhetorical make-up while exposing herself to the likes of these bloggers. Forget what her article actually assesses. The AJC could have printed the same headline and written the lyrics to “Birthday Sex” ten times over, and these responses would be the exact same. Half would criticize the tone of the song, half would wet themselves over a trivial comma-splice, and nearly all would completely miss the content at hand. With that said, it’s too bad she did not assume a muckraker’s tone, and call out these teachers for their true nature: Middle-aged, small-town losers who were once young and idealistic like Ms. Desprez, but long ago gave up on their dreams, ending up as overweight abdicates who collect ransom money for the screwball youth they hold captive 8 hours a day, five days a week, 180 days a year.
All Ms. Desprez did was petition her workforce peers to see her side of the equation, to explain where SHE is coming from, and how it can serve to close the achievement gap. She did not claim to be the education-messiah; she only asserts herself and the rest of Teach for America as another effective tributary to our youth’s stream of consciousness. Yet all the opposition insists on damming, and the worst of you, damning, her, some taking it so far as to accuse her of claiming educational-divinity, and thus nail her to the cross (no less made from the rotting Board of Education) yourselves.
In the end, Ms. Desprez only did what all teachers, or all Americans for that matter, should encourage: She questioned the authority. And once again, we see the age old struggle plaguing the educational-universe in its entirety since the Romantic first lesson in Eden: The student raises their hand to question, and the teacher slaps it down.
To Mountain Man
February 27th, 2012
8:59 pm
YOu commented and asked “Answer: she doesn’t (unless she just can’t find any other job), she just wants to pad her resume.”
Nope.
Teaching won’t pad her resume. We in business .don’t give a hoot about teaching experience nor do we care about education degrees. In fact, they can be a liability in business. You don’t have to believe me jsut look at any job on any web site such as Monster.com or Dice.com. They all list required skills and highly desired skills and NONE of them list teaching and education degrees as a desired or required skill. Education degrees and teaching experience will only help you get an education job. EVen corporations which need corporate trainers do not want public k-12 school teachers. There is room in IT for physics majors, math majors, business majors. NONE for education majors.
The education degree is not respected and for good reasons. The crap that universities are turning out i their education departments and colleges is deplorable. My child’s tenured teacher who has an education degree cannot speak or write common, simple, everyday English “If your child need(sic) to use the bathroom….” and “Hier pencil go(sic) in the pencil box” and “she have inform(sic) me that….” There is no past tense, no subject and verb agreement and she uses words incorrectly, for example, instead of using the word “tentative” to describe a date that isn’t completely decided, he used the word “attentive.” IT is astounding and cringe-worthy and he is working on his MASTERS degree in EDUCATION. ROTC (rolling on the floor crying because this is the best we can do? Pitiful.
So, no, Emily isn’t padding her resume. We in business look down on education degrees because they are worthless. and…
So let’s pretend Emily wants to teach just to be able to be employed. That should tell you alot about her character — she has one. I didn’t work in my field either when I graduated from college because those were the Reagan years and I took the job that I could get — you can’t ault her for that. What would you prefer? That she apply for welfare and be a parasite on society?
Good Mother
Maureen Downey
February 27th, 2012
9:03 pm
@Hmmm.
Have to disagree about your characterization of her school as suburban. And her high school is metro Atlanta.
From GOSA
80 percent of the students qualify for free and reduced lunches
46 percent Hispanic, 34 African-American, 7 percent white
I also think that as a TFA teacher, she had good reason to address the decision in Cobb.
Maureen
Dr. Monica Henson
February 27th, 2012
9:14 pm
William Casey posts that Emily seems to be an exception to the candidates from “quickie teacher preparation programs.” I can speak to two issues from experience: (1) Teach for America is not a “quickie” program, and (2) Emily is an example of the rule, not the exception, for TFA. TFA only takes the cream of the collegiate crop.
To FYI from GM
February 27th, 2012
9:20 pm
You wrote that Dartmouth doesn’t have an Ecucation major. You’re right. They don’t call it that. For the 50K a year price tag one doesn’t calll it an “education major” as state “public” (ew) colleges do. My sister in law has a degree from Dartmouth known as a Masters in Liberal Arts and she taugh early childhood education at a public school until the kids came along and her Dartmouth-educated banker husband doesn’t need the income. What a life indeed…but yeah, I didn’t expect you’d understand all that and neither would I ( Iwent to a “ew” public university too).
GM
just another parent
February 27th, 2012
9:22 pm
To Hmmm
You state that “Beyond the Tech degree, she seems like a pretty run-of-the-mill teacher.” What about scoring in the 98 percentile of the math section of the GACE. Typical? How close did you come to a perfect score on the math portion of the GACE? Give the 22 year old kid a break. You come across as being a little jealous.
Baltimore loves Emily
February 27th, 2012
9:30 pm
Emily, When you get tired of the negativity in Georgia, please consider moving to Maryland. We would love to have a teacher with your passion and commitment in our schools. You are an inspiration to me as a parent and teacher.
Ronin
February 27th, 2012
9:31 pm
@Mom: TFA are just one option, they may bring a different style or method to deliver material vs. traditional teacher training. Another option is utilizing charter schools with TFA staffing.
While you don’t have to reinvent the wheel, our public education system does have a flat. I’ve heard the longtime educators say that “we need more funding” or “more parent involvement” to deliver a better product. Well, public education in Georgia definitely needs to better serve it’s customers (students and families).
There is not enough transparency in the district school and there is too much management and too few teachers. We need fewer assistant principals, learning coaches and specialists and more subject literate expert teachers, certified or not, TFA, fine too. However, many young teachers start out ultra motivated like Emily, but few start with that level of intelligence. You can take a closet full of Master, Specialist and Ph D degrees in education or leadership education and they would not rank near a math or physics degree from Georgia Tech in terms of the difficulty of the curriculum. While that comment may ruffle a few feathers, in my opinion, it’s true.
So to use a 90’s expression and “think outside the box” for alternative education options that best serve the customer and not the establishment.
If the school system can attract and retain experts in various fields of science it may pay dividends for our students.
Dr. Monica Henson
February 27th, 2012
9:33 pm
Parent’s corner posted, “Here is the difference between parents and teachers on this blog: Parents wish there were more teachers like Emily. Teachers wish there were less.”
Not this National Board Certified Teacher, who started out as an idealistic 22-year-old alternative certification teacher, way before the days of Teach for America! I wish every student in the United States had a teacher with the passion and excitement and academic knowledge of Emily. As a principal and district administrator, I can vouch for the effectiveness of teachers like her. If we provide the Emilys with appropriate support and ongoing training/staff development, we’ll entice many more of them to stay beyond the two-year TFA commitment. I’ve been around since 1985!
just another parent
February 27th, 2012
9:34 pm
To: Nope John Paul II
what an outstanding post! (and screen name). You certainly know the power of words and how to use them in a clever fashion. A good (non-TFA teacher of course) probably couldn’t even come close to your writing skills. Maybe teaming you as a creative writing teacher with Emily as a math teacher in south Cobb would help move those schools from last to first. your writing is so refreshing. Emily’s attitude is so refreshing. The negative Cobb teachers and their cohorts are so yesterday.
Tiff
February 27th, 2012
9:44 pm
The GACE exam is a pass or fail test. How did Emily determine that she scored within the 98th percentile? The results do not state your score even if you pass.
Tamara
February 27th, 2012
9:45 pm
I work with a group of several TFA teachers and they are very high quality and highly motivated individuals who are MUCH BETTER PREPARED for the rigors of teaching in a high poverty middle school than other traditionally educated teachers. Don’t knock TFA folks until you have worked with them. They are absolutely over qualified and under paid. I love them.
Hmmm
February 27th, 2012
9:54 pm
Thank you for the reply Maureen! I consider Lilburn a suburb; it is certainly not within Atlanta city limits. When the author of the letter stated she obtained a teaching job on Atlanta, I think the mistakenly lead people to believe she is an APS teacher.
irisheyes
February 27th, 2012
10:00 pm
@Good Mother, I’m not sure why I’m doing this, but here goes. I went on Monster.com and looked for a job in Atlanta. Here’s one I found and the qualifications they want:
Requirements Education and/or Experience:
• Bachelor’s Degree – Got that
• 4+ years of related outsidesales/service experience – Don’t have that, but neither would a nurse
• Knowledge of OR/SPD processes – Don’t have that, but I could learn it
• Microsoft Office competence – Got that! I use MS Office everyday
• Ability to travel – Guess I have that
Key Competencies: Knowledge, Skills, & Abilities Required
To perform this job successfully, an individual must be able to perform each essential duty satisfactorily. The requirements listed below are representative of the knowledge, skill, and/or ability required. Reasonable accommodations may be made to enable individuals with disabilities to perform the essential functions.
• Proven track record of successfully leading teams – I lead a team of children every day, plus I work on a grade level team
• Demonstrated leadership ability – Guess who the leader in my classroom is?
• Collaborative problem resolution skills – Yeah, I do that every, single day with the other teachers on my grade level
• Strong relationship management bias – I’ll be honest, not sure what this is
• Communication and interpersonal skills at a high level to include verbal and written proficiency – Got that!
• Ability to deliver excellent results within the established timeframes while managing multiple priorities – That’s every day for a teacher
• Ability to develop and implement strategic plans and process improvements – That’s what they call lesson planning
• Flexible and adaptable – Can you teach school and not be flexible and adaptable?
• Confident, assertive, driven and resilient with strong commitment to customer service – I think all of the e-mails and phone calls I make to parents show that I an committed to customer service.
• Excellent analytical and problem solving skills
• Must be detail oriented in a multi-tasking, fast paced, customer focused environment – I’d say 25+ seven year olds qualifies as fast paced.
• High level of responsiveness – Have you ever tried to respond to an angry parent on the phone?
• Ego Free – What teacher has an ego??
Now, while I don’t have the industry specific qualifications, neither do TFA teachers until they go through their “boot camp”. However, I think just about any teacher here has the flexibility, adaptability, and leadership that would allow them to succeed in business. Of course, you are going to use your child’s teacher as an example of how we’re all worthless. I’ll make you a deal. If you don’t judge all teachers based on one example, I won’t judge all parents based on the one in my classroom who hasn’t returned a single thing I’ve sent home all year, and stood me up for her conference for the third time this year. (She’s really nice when I call her on the phone, though!)
S.B.
February 27th, 2012
10:33 pm
I think Mountain Man said it well. It’s one thing to go into a program knowing that it’s only for two years, and that at the end of those two years if you don’t want to continue teaching you can apply to graduate school or jobs in the education sector. It’s a whole other thing to go to school intending to teach either as a career or until you burn out. I honestly believe that the intentions of TFA members are good, but the only real solution to the achievement gap is the eradication of poverty and all of the problems that go with it. A good teacher is a good teacher, but time and time again it has been shown that the best teachers are those who have been thoroughly trained, have taught for years, and still love the profession–not bright young graduates.
Truth in Moderation
February 28th, 2012
1:34 am
To teach math, one MUST teach math facts to mastery by third grade. Students with dyscalcula (3%-6% of the population) must be identified. These students need MUCH more drill and repetition than most students. They also need more one-on-one instruction and untimed tests. In addition, many work better when concepts are visualized. I have found Math-U-See great for the lower grades, and Discovering Algebra : An Investigative Approach is a good series for high school students when combined with review of traditional practice problems. Teachers, here’s a website with dyscalcula info : http://dyscalculiaforum.com/viewpage.php?page_id=1 If these students are not helped early, they will HATE math and be on the road to failure.
The “one size fits all” way of teaching math does NOT work, especially for students with dyscalcula. Home educators excel in providing customized education. If one method does not work, others are tried until the child succeeds. Hands-on opportunities to apply what the student has learned are invaluable and can greatly increase a child’s interest level. More and more, children who don’t fit in the public school box are being home schooled with great success.
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
February 28th, 2012
6:14 am
@just another parent “A good (non-TFA teacher of course) probably couldn’t even come close to your writing skills. ”
Why, oh why, do people feel compelled to make comments like this… ? Belittling merely for the sake of belittling?
just another parent
February 28th, 2012
8:16 am
to: I love teaching. I hate…
You are correct. The belittling statement i made was immature on my part. I know there are a lot of outstanding teachers and for me to cast a demeaning statement toward them was petty. Thank you for calling me on it. Going forward i make an effort to be more thoughtful toward others.
rascal
February 28th, 2012
8:35 am
Just a few facts for you HS Government Teacher
Georgia teachers get tenure after 3 years, not exactly a NON-Union attitude toward job security. Not many professions get tenure ever. What is so special about teaching that it deserves tenure over performance based job security
In Georgia, teachers with 3 years experience teacher are fired at a rate of 1.36%
Under 3 years teachers are fired at a rate of 0.25%
Do you really believe the honest judgment of education administrators is that 98.6+% of teachers in Georgia are doing an adequate job, adequate enough to retain their position? Georgia government run education is just barely better than “street smarts”. You’d learn more working in a Vietnamese shoe factory than in Ga schools. Most kids in poor neighborhoods are going backwards in their education. The damage done to these kids is for a LIFETIME, yet you defend the status quo and just want to maintain teacher security as a priority over families choosing the type of education they give their children. What are government run schools scared of? If they can do an adequate job and convince parents to come to their schools, school choice should be no problem for you.
SBinF
February 28th, 2012
10:30 am
If she cares so much about teaching, she could apply through the normal protocol and see where the chips fall.
irisheyes
February 28th, 2012
10:57 am
I just noticed that Maureen used the adjective “heartfelt” to describe the essay. Why is it that there are people who love this author’s passion and love for children, but when a teacher writes their own “heartfelt” essay about how much they love teaching and how they want to improve schools, they get called a “whiner” and someone “who just wants to continue the status quo.” I’m thinking specifically of the time Jordan Kohaniam (sorry if I misspelled it!) wrote her own wonderful, hearfelt essay. The names she got called here on this blog were embarrassing.
Maureen Downey
February 28th, 2012
11:11 am
@Irish, Just went back and read over the response to that great piece that Jordan and her colleagues Larken McCord and Cathy Rumfelt wrote, which I also ran in the print edition. Most of the responses were positive. I also know that the piece was linked from sites all over the country. There were the usual naysayers, the late Dr. No, for one, but most of the comments were quite positive.
Maureen
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2011/08/11/dear-parents-we-wont-give-up-on-your-kids-not-now-not-ever/
Prof
February 28th, 2012
1:24 pm
@ rascal, February 28th, 8:35 am: “Just a few facts for you HS Government Teacher. Georgia teachers get tenure after 3 years, not exactly a NON-Union attitude toward job security. …”
Sigh. As a University professor who’s had “tenure” for more than 20 years, I can assure you that it’s not at all the same as what is called “tenure” in Georgia’s K-12 education; and you seem to mix them up.
“Tenure” for my sort of educator comes after 7 years of teaching apprenticeship, if your department, college, and University decide they want to give it to you, after a year-long rigorous process of consideration. It means that the professor can only be terminated for a few specific reasons, such as “moral turpitude” (very serious shenanigans such as dealing drugs or having sex on the floor of your office with a student), criminal guilt as found by court, or “financial exigency” by the school (programs are closed for financial reasons).
But “tenure” for K-12 educators comes automatically with their third-year contract, and simply means that the school must observe due process when firing them….as is true for all state employees in this state. Absolutely different sort of “tenure.”
B. Killebrew
February 28th, 2012
2:53 pm
http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/living-in-dialogue/2012/02/hyper-accountability_burnout_a.html
Long time educator
February 28th, 2012
5:51 pm
If a math major from Georgia Tech has a passion for helping kids, I say let her teach! Place her in a low SES high school in urban Atlanta, or in any school with low achievement in math. What could it hurt? It is hard to get people to stay in these tough areas, so here is someone wanting to make a difference, GREAT! That is absolutely no threat to anyone. Even if they only last a few years, think of it as the Peace Corps, where most folks volunteer for a time and move on to something else. They still make a difference during the time they are there. Someone who needs a good math teacher offer this girl a job! If I were still hiring, I would.
Note
February 28th, 2012
6:10 pm
Dear Emily,
We’d love to have you in Cobb. However, at this time there are no vacancies. Please reapply next year. Thank you. CCSD
If there were vacant positions, why not? But, there are no vacancies. Just ask all the teachers laid off from the last RFT who demonstrated less than 2 years teaching experience as the only reason their positions were eliminated.
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
February 28th, 2012
6:39 pm
@just another parent,
Thank you for being willing to rethink your comment. That is an all too rare quality. You have gained my respect.
notastatistic
February 29th, 2012
10:51 pm
Emily…
Please keep your head up and continue to work hard. Do not listen at the negative comments. I am appalled at the way these teachers have been so ugly to you. They make me ashamed to be classified with them. I too started out as a non-traditional teacher and have experienced the same things you are going through. Keep up the great work and do not become a statistic.
TimeOut
March 2nd, 2012
1:05 pm
It’s always a good thing to share the workplace with enthusiastic, motivated colleagues. It’s not uncommon for those new to the workforce to form opinions or take positions that reflect their inexperience in their chosen field. If this young woman chooses to remain in the classroom, she will experience much that will inform her world view. Most teachers with whom I’ve worked spend ten hour days on the job and then take work home, or participate in unpaid after-school events. Many have degrees that were earned separately from their teaching credentials. Many manage to do a good job in a difficult situation, while raising families and contributing in other ways to their community. Martyrs we do not need. We could use some folks who are proficient in content and delivery. It would be nice if teaching as a profession in the United States carried the same caché that it does in Finland and other locations. In many other places in the world, parents view their children’s teachers as professionals who hold hard-won positions for which they are both well-compensated and well-respected. There are not enough potential teachers in the world who want to be the recipient of taxpayers’ resentment, systems’ low pay and poor working conditions, parents’ and students’ disregard and disrespect, all while trying to be all things to all people at all times and in every way. It’s true that some colleges of education are not of the quality that they should be. It’s true that some workers in our schools are over compensated, given the quality of their work. Such conditions do not justify the suspicion, contempt, and hostility that so many heap upon those who work with K-12 students daily in our public schools. So many comments on this site reflect a limited understanding of the work world of teachers. So many comments are based on so little knowledge. It’s depressing.
Supportive Teacher
March 2nd, 2012
8:10 pm
Every teacher – no matter which certification process he or she completes – should possess the same level of concern and devotion to students’ success as Emily clearly does. Critics (and overly-defensive teachers) are missing her message: School districts should embrace educators who wish to promote student engagement, learning, and performance, regardless of whether they are TFA teachers or teachers (like myself) who completed a degree in education. If a school needs passionate, innovative educators who are trained on implementing best practices, teachers like Emily should not be snubbed just because some veteran teachers might get their feelings hurt. She made it clear in her piece that she is constantly seeking professional support and advice from her experienced colleagues and continues to learn strategies to improve herself; she did not claim to be the Messiah for her school, so why are people so afraid of what she has to offer?
By the way, I work with Emily, and she is truly an inspiration. Her students love and respect her, and she is beyond effective at teaching them the skills they need to be successful.
Bill Betzen
March 3rd, 2012
12:06 am
I think the newly published article by Dr. Diane Ravitch may help add facts to this issue. See http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/mar/22/how-and-how-not-improve-schools/ Dr. Ravitch used to work with the US Secretary of Education. What she says comes from decades of work within the US Educational System.