True or false? Georgia teachers highest paid in country
When House speaker pro tem Jan Jones of Milton commented on the blog a few weeks ago that Georgia teachers were the highest paid in the country, many of you argued that it could not be true.
In her op-ed on the blog, Jones wrote, “…when adjusted for cost of living, Georgia ranks first nationally in teacher salary and benefits.”
Well, it’s half true — according to our AJC PolitiFact Georgia team.
Here is the finding of our team, which is dedicated to applying the Truth-O-Meter to comments by politicians: (Please, read the full piece here before commenting.)
Jones used a February 2009 study by the John Locke Foundation, a Raleigh, N.C.-based think tank that supports limited government, to help back up her claim. She also did some research on her own, looking at states that had higher average salaries and determining that there were other factors — such as differences in cost of living — to conclude that Georgia teachers lead the nation in total compensation.
“I couldn’t find any factors that led me to believe that anyone had jumped ahead of us,” she said.
The John Locke Foundation report focused on teacher compensation in the foundation’s home state, North Carolina. Although Georgia ranked 17th in average salaries, the Peach State finished first in overall annual compensation.
How did the foundation reach that conclusion? It used a formula that included the National Education Association’s average salaries ($53,270 for Georgia) in 2008, pension contribution rates and a cost-of-living formula to measure compensation. They concluded that the average Georgia teacher’s annual compensation was $72,393. The average years of experience for Georgia of 12.9 was slightly below the national average of 14.6.
Interestingly, the difference between average salary and total compensation was higher for Georgia than any other state, at $19,123. The percentage difference between average salary and total compensation for Georgia was 35.9 percent. The only other state with a higher percentage difference was Arkansas, at 36.7 percent.
Tax dollars contributed to Georgia teacher pension plans were 9.28 percent in 2009, which the Locke Foundation used to calculate Georgia’s pension contribution. The national average was 10.16 percent, Locke reported. The Georgia contribution rose to 9.74 percent in 2010, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported.
Georgia’s cost-of-living index was 0.909, which was lower than every state except Arkansas, Oklahoma and Tennessee. Georgia had the same cost-of-living index as Texas. Much of the research we found shows Georgia ranks in the lower half of the nation when it comes to cost of living. In late 2011, Georgia had the 16th lowest cost of living in the nation, according to the Missouri Economic Research and Information Center.
Jeff Humphreys, director of the University of Georgia’s Selig Center for Economic Growth, looked at the Locke Foundation’s study and thought the general approach it used to measure cost of living was “reasonable.” Humphreys noted the study used ACCRA, a well-known index that measures cost of living in the nation’s larger cities and metropolitan areas. The foundation apparently used the cost of living of each city in a state to calculate the entire state’s cost-of-living index. The company that runs ACCRA told PolitiFact Georgia it does not measure cost of living for the entire state.
In general, though, Humphreys said salaries are based on simple supply and demand. “To get enough teachers to move into those states, they have to pay more,” Humphreys said. “It’s really market economics at its best.”
The conservative-leaning Heritage Foundation did its own research on teacher salaries in 2011, but it did not include a state-by-state comparison. A senior policy analyst there, Jason Richwine, suggested other factors such as health insurance, life/disability insurance, retiree health care, and paid leave need to be included in any such comparisons.
As we mentioned, there is little research on total teacher compensation nationally. The independent experts we spoke to looked at the Locke study and found its methodology was sound, but they found some areas to quibble about. We also wonder about the cost-of-living calculation used since ACCRA doesn’t measure it for the entire state.
The statement is based in some solid methodology, but we believe there are too many variables to consider and not enough research in order to make a true apples-to-apples comparison here. Under our rating system, that’s a Half True.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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148 comments Add your comment
Jimmy
February 24th, 2012
8:02 am
This can’t be true because I want more money.
Sarah
February 24th, 2012
8:06 am
How do you figure out how much a teacher “ought” to mak?. There is an endless demand for more and outraged venom at any attempt at accountablity. Notice that the APS cheaters are still on the payroll. Endless teacher “protection” simply saps the public’s willingness to pony up ever more tax dollars to pay “more”.
Old timer
February 24th, 2012
8:09 am
When I first began teaching GA salaries ranked 48th, then 49th……so it has improved…
rascal
February 24th, 2012
8:25 am
The truth is that it would be easy for the actual compensation for teachers to be posted by school boards and the unions. The reality is that they do not want the facts out there because the excuse for bad teachers has always been how underpaid they all were. The truth being kept from us can mean only one thing, the average pay for teachers is outlandishly high when compared to their average performance. They are not getting it done in any form or fashion, same pay for different performances never works in any industry.
Ron F.
February 24th, 2012
8:31 am
When you factor in furloughs, my salary actually went down considerably that last two years, and might come back to where it was in ‘07 this year…maybe. My system is looking at a serious shortfall next year though, so I expect furloughs to continue. As the state has shifted the percentage of benefits I pay for (my insurance premiums have doubled over the last five years or so), my take home pay has, at best, remained the same since about ‘05. My last few step raises were basically offset by rising insurance premiums. The total they’re using for comparison may look good, but the real numbers on my paystub paint a very different picture.
I LOVE teaching, and will do my best to continue as long as I can. I can’t imagine doing anything else, but I’m not sure the financial benefit is as good as many think it is.
HS Public Teacher
February 24th, 2012
8:32 am
This is simply a conservative group fudging numbers to support whatever that they want to claim.
Is anyone shocked?
HS Public Teacher
February 24th, 2012
8:35 am
@Rascal – You make ridiculous claims almost as much as this group.
I have never ever heard anyone make, “the excuse for bad teachers has always been how underpaid they all were.” What? Are you kidding me? Please share where you have heard this!!!!
I would wager that this is in your imagination.
Also, you say, “The truth being kept from us …” Huh? Really?
Your imagination must really be running wild. Now, you have some conspiracy theory going on?
Please go take your medication, immediately!
dkt
February 24th, 2012
8:37 am
Maureen,
Can you answer these questions?
1. Wouldn’t a 2009 study pre-date furlough days, denial of step increases, the cessation of tsa contributions, and increases in insurance premiums (at least for teachers working in counties like Dekalb)?
2. Does this study include highly paid administrators who dont’ teach? Most administrators make double to triple what a 10+year teacher w/ a master’s earns.
3. Does this study also recognize the number of retired “educators” collecting pension benefits but also earning a salary?
NONPC
February 24th, 2012
8:42 am
It is amazing that even when Politifact finds this a half truth based on some apples to oranges comparisons, people poo poo this as some right wing doublespeak. Look at the study! If you disagree with the R legislator, point out where the study is wrong!.
The fact is , not only are the FACTS of the study correct (conclusions may be wrong, but facts are facts), this represents 9 months work out of the year…. another overlooked fact. Average teacher salary ~$53k. 9.28% taxpayer contribution to their pensions. Lowest cost of living in the country. These are FACTS that point to the conclusion that we are, in FACT, paying teachers enough, and paying comparable to other states, and paying teachers WAY more than student performance indicates that we should be paying them.
I'm a teacher
February 24th, 2012
9:09 am
Because public school teachers are public employees you can find out how much they make – just go online and it is there – also every school district posts its salary scale online as well, just go to the webpage of any school district and look for it.
As to accountability – several posters keep claiming that there is no accountability please explain what you mean. I have been teaching 6 (of my 21 years) here in Georgia and have been observed (formal classroom observations) at least 3 times a year by at least 2 different people (usually my department chair and an administrator) What you keep spouting as accountability, I assume is tied to test scores and you are right – teachers are fighting it and I will tell you why. Starting with NCLB, schools and teachers started being held “accountable” for a number of things – not just test scores. For instance, many schools did not make AYP because of student attendance – which it has no control over – the parents are responsible for making sure the student gets to school. the “new” teacher evaluation process for Race to the Top is just as bad. Teachers are still observed for specific “best practices” and those that are not evident in the lesson have to be proved at the end of the year by “artifacts” that teachers collect during the year to show they are jumping through the hoops. This process again is very subjective and vague and has the potential for “fudged” results. And before you begin accusing the teachers – like most things in this profession – this is coming down from the state DOE – people who have not been in a classroom in years.
I, nor most of the teachers I know, would not mind being held “accountable” for things I can control. Merit pay the way it has been proposed is a joke. It only looks at end of the year test scores. It does not take into account where the students were when you got them – just where they end up. For instance, you could get a student in your classroom (of up to 32-35 students) that is two to three years behind grade level and has been “placed” in the next grade and you are expected to catch them up by the end of the year?
I again state – teachers do not mind being held “accountable” for what they can control – in my last observation, I was giving an “emerging” (basically a D) because three boys in a science lab (high school) were talking (not on task) while I was walking around and checking the progress of the 7 lab groups (each with 4 – 5 students in them) I was not given the D because I did not address the behavior (basically call them down and redirect them back to work) several times during the lesson – but because it happened in the first place. They were not, for the most part, causing a major disruption to anyone but their own group (who chose them to work in that group by the way) and again I repeatedly told them to stop talking and to get to work – I have notified the parents of these boys numerous times in the past about their behavior and their grades which are not surprisingly low, to no noticeable effect. And if merit pay were in place – these same boys would be determining my pay scale? I don’t think so.- yeah I’ll fight that kind of “accountability”
catlady
February 24th, 2012
9:13 am
I think a look at STARTING teacher salaries would be instructive. The ‘average” is bumped up by those of us who have stayed at it (39 years) and gotten advanced degrees (PhD) from those darned diploma mills (University of Georgia).
Sybill
February 24th, 2012
9:23 am
We need to make the criteria to become a teacher harder, then we can pay more. Most Schools of Education at any school is very easy to get in. This is why mostly women are in education. They want an easy degree, with a lot of time off, and good benefits.
Mikey D
February 24th, 2012
9:24 am
@rascal
Are you truly ignorant of the facts, do you have an ideological agenda, or are you simply an idiot? It can only be one of those three choices.
You do realize that there are no teacher unions in Georgia, right?
You do realize that those mythical unions don’t bully those in power to keep salaries a big secret, right?
You do realize that by simply doing an internet search for the open government website, you can view the salary of any teacher/administrator/school worker in the state, right?
If you didn’t realize these things, then perhaps you should educate yourself a bit more prior to coming onto an education blog and declaring yourself a moron.
teacher&mom
February 24th, 2012
9:29 am
Regarding the funding for her Charter School plan……
“Jones says that her plan will be funded through a separate QBE line item, using a formula calculated by averaging the funding in the poorest school systems in Georgia. Unfortunately, she had not yet indentified what state monies (that would otherwise be available to local school systems and local charter schools) will be used to fund the state schools. Ironically, her current funding plan is likely to make the very systems whose budgets are used to formulate the state charter funding formula even poorer.”
So when can we expect to see which state monies will be used to pay for Rep. Jones “plan”? What is Rep. Jones’ hiding? Why won’t she give a specific answer? I’m sure she has a plan. Right?
Perhaps…before revealing which state monies…she must first convince her constituents the budget item won’t be missed or the item is already “a bit too generous” and could be trimmed back.
Hey Teacher
February 24th, 2012
9:33 am
@Catlady — yes, and summer school and other extra pay should not be considered in that average. From what I can tell, supplements for extra duties are included in the data because they are using the published salaries reported to the state. I look pretty good on paper when you factor in my extra duties but I also work extra days for that pay (ie summer school) so it shouldn’t be included in a study of this sort. Many counties also have a lot of overpaid “teachers on special assignment” (ie coaches).
tax me more please
February 24th, 2012
9:37 am
People on here keep talking about the Pensions that teacher get. You do know that teachers pay in to their retirement system every month, and that money is then invested. So it’s not like teachers are getting free money after they retire. It’s not money that the state has just given them, it’s part of their salary that is used.
On another note, Teachers sign contracts that for for a certain number of days to be worked. All of this paid vacation stuff, is just not true. They are paid for the days they are contracted to work, the state just takes that pay and breaks it up over 12 months as oppose to 10. Oh, and teachers get paid for those contracted days and those days only, if they come in during the summer or weekends, they don’t get overtime for that.
AlreadySheared
February 24th, 2012
9:39 am
I dunno if it’s true.
However, if it IS true, it is also just bleepin pathetic.
Red Herring
February 24th, 2012
9:58 am
agree if administrators salaries are factored in this leads to misleading figures. most counties need far less administration and their staff and perhaps a few teachers more. still based on having summers and long breaks (christmas/spring/etc) off the georgia teachers are doing pretty well. they have done especially well versus state employees ever since Zell Miller took office. that process has continued to present day due to their representation by their unions (oops associations). no teacher should receive tenure after just 3 years (15 years maybe). you do need to factor in all variables in studies of overall salaries/benefits when doing such a study– (which is why the heritage foundation did not do a ranking because they did not take all of the variables into account).
Jerry Eads
February 24th, 2012
10:04 am
I did this when I was downtown a few years back, although I ONLY looked at absolute compensation without factoring cost of living, taxes, etc. I also looked at pay versus experience, which this study apparently ignored. Georgia teacher salaries were relatively competitive. However, as mentioned above, teachers have taken it on the ear for a number of years, and although that’s ALSO the case in other states, it’s not possible to know without current (rather than 4-5 year old) data where Georgia sits now.
Ron F.
February 24th, 2012
10:07 am
Red Herring: many school districts, mine included, have reworded contracts and local BOE policy to state that a variety of factors, not length of service or tenure solely, shall be used to make employment decisions. Our contracts even read that they can be revoked by the BOE as deemed necessary. All tenure means is that you will be offered a piece of paper they call a contract which doesn’t bind them to any guarantee of employment. I’ve been told such policies don’t jive with state law, but until someone files suit against them, they’ll get to stand. I have “tenure” but I know for certain the BOE can let me go at any point they decide to do so, and according to local policy and my contract, I have no grounds for redress.
Hadenough
February 24th, 2012
10:08 am
I believe the teachers are overpaid in Georgia and especially in the Fulton County School System. Approximately 60% of students in the Atlanta and Fulton County School Systems even graduate from high school and the AJC had an article yesterday that stated the Fulton County School System Board voted to give ALL their employees BONUSES this year totally $9.4 million after last year increasing property taxes by one full mileage point to home owners. That $9.4 million should have been returned to the tax payers!!!
carlosgvv
February 24th, 2012
10:14 am
And yet, we still rank near or at the bottom in scholastic achivement.
LeeH1
February 24th, 2012
10:17 am
Has anyone applied these calculations to see how Georgia politicians come into line with other state politians around the country. Now, that would be something ot see. Especially if you add in all the extra perks, unknown to most citizens, that come with elected office!
Grandmother's proverbial saying
February 24th, 2012
10:21 am
@ Cscoby: Actually babysitters make more than teachers. Do the math. 28 students x $7.15 per hour x 7.5 to 8 hours per day. Multiply that product times 5 days per week. Then multiply the final product times 4 weeks to calculate the monthly salary. That’s working for minimum wage.
catlady
February 24th, 2012
10:37 am
LeeH1: Well, for a part time job they make good money, they get a huge per diem which they don’t even have to prove, they can claim to work days for additional pay, and they get to count their few months of service per year as a “year” for retirement benefits! Howzabout that!? Then count staff, travel (”fact” finding), and lobbyist “assistance” and it makes for a sweet job. Not sure about their health plan benefits, however. I am guessing it mirrors the Georgia state employees’ plan. I think it would be great to look into their ranking on pay and perks as well!
Dekalbite@catlady
February 24th, 2012
10:56 am
“I think a look at STARTING teacher salaries would be instructive”
You can see the average length of service time for teachers on the state of Georgia DOE website is 12.86 years:
http://archives.gadoe.org/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=102&StateId=ALL&T=1&FY=2010
(click on Personnel and Fiscal tab)
oldtimer
February 24th, 2012
10:59 am
Even more interesting…look at the salries and perks retired college personnel get…that teachers and all other state employees do not get. I guess they work much harder than classroom teachers.
Brandy
February 24th, 2012
11:02 am
I’d love to see this same analysis done using current salary figures, only looking at teachers with bachelor degrees (the average), factoring in furlough days and rising insurance costs, and adjusting for the current COL. My guess is that Georgia would end up somewhere in the middle of all states for teacher compensation.
MiltonMan
February 24th, 2012
11:09 am
Poor, ‘ole poor teachers. They complain about reps being in charge but conveniently forget that it was their own chosen clown Barnes that initially went after teachers.
Also, complaining about their pensions don’t pay much??? Most of us in the private sector do not have a pension so go cry somewhere else on that one.
Education major – the major of many educators is perhaps one of the easisest majors in college.
9 months of work – must be nice to have the summer off
“We need a union” – this is of cource a “right-to-work” state so good luck on that one.
MiltonMan
February 24th, 2012
11:12 am
Teachers do seem to complain alot. Do teachers not realize that they will have to teach 25-30+ students per class???
Unbelievable
February 24th, 2012
11:14 am
Julian – Are you serious? “The limited hours”? I am at school at 6:00 AM every morning and never leave the school before 5:00 to 5:30 and then bring things home to do each night. You have no idea what you are talking about! Attitudes like yours are reason that teachers are treated the way they are today.
Hadenough – “I believe the teachers are overpaid in Georgia and especially in the Fulton County School System.” Really? I haven’t had a raise in six years! I make less money now than I did in 2006 – but I’m “overpaid”? Teachers have “had enough” of being treated like second class citizens. Get a clue before making such ignorant comments.
Dekalbite
February 24th, 2012
11:15 am
Another way to look at teacher compensation is to look at class sizes. If you are a teacher in a state where class sizes are raised to 35 or 37 (Georgia) versus a teacher in a state that has class sizes of no more than 25 or 28, then the state with the largest class sizes may pay equivalent average salaries, but their expenditure on teachers will be less.
Quite frankly, if you are being asked to take on 10 students more than the teacher in another state who teaches your same subject, the pay should be higher – IMO.
Compensation data analysis is rarely simple.
Homeschooler
February 24th, 2012
11:18 am
In comparison to other service oriented jobs, teachers get paid well. They get paid in line with what cops, fireman etc.. make. And, I know they are tired of hearing this…they DO work fewer hours. Even if you just count the time off in the summer. Many whine and complain and, yes, they probably should be paid more but so should cops, fireman etc…
I’ve said this before. I work for DFCS as a child abuse investigator, my W2 b/c of furloughs showed my income at 32,000 dollars a year. I work 40 hrs per week (or more) 52 weeks per year. My insurance premiums have doubled and I haven’t had a raise in 7 yrs. I have 18 yrs at the agency and a masters degree in psychology. Why do I do it? Why don’t I go find a higher paying job? Because I realize that I am good at what I do, I like going to work everyday (well, night), I get several holidays off and at age 52 I will get a pension. Personally, I think I’m taking the easy way out. I think a lot of teachers are too. They just don’t want to admit it.
I should say that I was an education major at Kennesaw in the early 1990’s. All my friends were too. They all had the same thoughts I did. Education is an “easy major” and we will get summers off. Maybe it didn’t turn out that way but it sure beats coming home at 6pm with one week vacation every year just for more money.
Dekalbite@Milton Man
February 24th, 2012
11:28 am
“Poor, ‘ole poor teachers. They complain about reps being in charge but conveniently forget that it was their own chosen clown Barnes that initially went after teachers.”
Barnes had it right.
Barnes was arrogant and did not include enough teachers on his planning team, however he reduced class sizes to historically low levels. He gave superintendents very little additional money. Rather he required them to ensure class sizes were low and then told them to work out the money. The superintendents did not like this because they had to cut the non teaching “bureaucracy” in order to fund the classroom. They had no choice but to cut in the non teaching side. Perdue gave them no “wiggle room”.
If you went into classrooms during the last 3 years of Barnes tenure, you would see low class sizes, teachers doing hands-on activities, and paying attention to individual student needs. Read the BOE minutes in some of the counties at that time, and you will see that administrative and support personnel positions were being eliminated because class sizes were small, and Barnes required them to stay that way. Too bad Barnes lost the election. Perdue came in and upped class sizes immediately. His theory was that the local school systems know best how to utilize their personnel – and how did that work out for students? The superintendents and bureaucracy had a field day hiring back their friends and family (not just in DeKalb).
Setting class sizes small and giving the superintendents no more money is a recipe for trimming the vast admin and support system that absorbs so much of our educational dollars. In 40 years in Georgia, that is the ONLY time I have seen the Central Office and non teaching Support personnel reduced.
Ramm
February 24th, 2012
11:44 am
@ Prof
“This means that for teachers who have been contributing for 24 years or less and then terminated, or terminated at 10 years vested who are age 59 or younger—their benefits are zilch, nada, kaput. And their years’ worth of contributions are just smoke.”
Not true. If they leave before being vested, they collect a check for every dollar they have paid in, plus interest.
Batgirl
February 24th, 2012
11:46 am
Yes, many of us are complaining because we chose an appealing profession. Most of us like children and want to be able to help them grow into productive adults. Some of the benefits of this profession included 190 day work years, a pension upon retirement and relative job security and were also very appealing. Now those things and the salaries we are supposed to receive are being taken away. I would also add that we receive very little parental support and most of the public thinks we are lazy idiots.
Is it not complaining when those of you in the “real world” opine that you do not have a pension, that you have to work fifty weeks a year, that job security is limited? Did you not know before you took those “real world” jobs that this was the case? Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Oh, and before you tell me that you have to be marvelous at your job to hold on to it, let me say that I’ve been in the “real world” and I’ve seen plenty of screw-ups and idiots hang on to their jobs and even move up the corporate ladder using means that had nothing to do with job performance.
Jerry Eads
February 24th, 2012
11:49 am
I always “enjoy” the comments – “Teachers complain a lot” – THIS IS AN EDUCATION BLOG!!!! – This is the forum for people who actually have some clue what they’re talking about to counter those who think they know everything about school because they were in one once. In schools, which are highly authoritarian systems (an interesting place to teach kids about democracy – - -), teachers must keep their mouths shut or all too often they’re shown the exit door. Witness the cheating scandals. MANY teachers knew it was wrong but also knew if they blew the whistle they’d be on welfare in short order.
While we’re at it, indeed, there has been no state salary adjustment in years to compensate for inflation or the radical increase in personal contributions to health care costs (etc.). Just like the rest of us.
And finally, while we’re at it for those who still see only that the school day is less than 8 hours and the year is 180 days: The research I did – granted, five years ago – indicated that teachers AVERAGE 50 hours a week. High school English teachers reportedly AVERAGE 60 hours a week. Anecdotally, I know many who average 80 a week. I know of no profession on earth except perhaps that of soldier in combat that requires an individual to stay on focus so many hours out of a day. The research numbers show that even IF a teacher only has a 190 day contract and doesn’t work outside that, they put in more hours that those who have the classic 40-hour job for 50 weeks.
Prof
February 24th, 2012
11:50 am
@ Homeschooler. You say that you have worked for DFCS 18 years and will get a pension at age 52. If you were a teacher who’s a member of TRS (which all teachers are required to join), you’d have to wait until you were 60 to get any pension at all…and then it would be partial benefits. (And no supplementary Social Security till you’re 62.) If you were a teacher and retired at age 52, you wouldn’t get anything.
Prof
February 24th, 2012
11:57 am
@Ramm, February 24th, 1:44 am. “If they [teachers] leave before being vested, they collect a check for every dollar they have paid in, plus interest.”
They don’t collect anything from TRS. They may have individual perks from their schools. But that’s not true across the board for all schools.
Homeschooler
February 24th, 2012
12:04 pm
@Prof. I’m not sure that is correct. Under my current retirement plan, If I put in 30 yrs. I can retire with a pension. (about 64percent of my salary) at any age. I can retire at 60 with a portion of that if I have worked over 10 yrs. I know of many caseworkers who have gone to work for the school system because the retirement is the same. Maybe they were misinformed. I have considered going to work for the school system in the future (for the summers off.
) but will not do so if I can’t keep my age 52 retirement. Some days it is the only thing that gets me through.
Still, my husband runs a small business. (talk about a lot of WORK) My friends work in the private sector. There IS something to be said for job security, decent (if expensive) benefits and occasional days (or summers) off. I have seen both sides and am not willing to trade what I have. The other way just seems harder to me. All I’m saying is, it’s a trade off and I just don’t buy that all these teachers just suffer through out of the goodness of their hearts. They are getting their own rewards (whatever that may be) or they wouldn’t be doing it.
Prof
February 24th, 2012
12:53 pm
@ Homeschooler. Retirement rules for state employees are very similar to those for TRS, but if you’re not an educator or related school employee then you’re not a member of TRS. I’ve always thought that the TRS plan is a good one because it’s based on the one that the state politicians created for themselves. They sure weren’t thinking about schoolteachers!
However–under TRS rules at least– unless you’re 30 years vested at age 52, you’re not going to get any retirement benefits. Also, for TRS members, employment after retirement is only allowed if it is 49% or less and is in the field in which you were working at retirement. Better check the state’s rules!
Lee
February 24th, 2012
2:06 pm
FYI, if you leave teaching before your pension is vested, you get nothing from the state. The money you paid in does accrue a return for five years. After that, it sits there.
Bottom line, if you leave teaching before getting vested, you need to roll your investments into a Roth IRA or other 403b/401k plan.
Teacher Reader
February 24th, 2012
2:09 pm
As a former teacher, I have always hated teachers who complain about what they make or don’t make. If one gets into teaching for the money, than they chose the wrong profession. That being said, teachers in Georgia do not have it as bad as they want you to believe. The cost of living is much less here in Georgia, especially that in the metro Atlanta area. I know that my home would be untouchable to me in DC, NY, NJ, MD, Boston, CT, the Philadelphia area, Chicago, Houston, and many other metropolitan areas in our country. I don’t live in a huge or even a new home. We bought a fixer upper and would have had to pay well over $400,000 for a home we paid $250,000 for here.
Teachers, need to stop complaining. I realize that Teachers usually work longer than the normal work day, but so do many other professionals who work year round and make about the same amount, often without the benefits that teachers receive.
Teachers wonder why they get such a bad wrap, and it’s because they are so ungrateful for what they do have and complain constantly and loudly about what they don’t.
NWGA Teacher
February 24th, 2012
2:13 pm
@ Batgirl: All true.
What good is a study without CURRENT information? What a waste of time and money.
Lee
February 24th, 2012
2:14 pm
Outside the Atlanta metropolitan area, schools are often one of the largest employers and the highest paid professions in the county. I’ve also exported our school district’s salaries to a spreadsheet and conducted some analysis. That $53k average is in line with what I observed.
For what its worth, I’ve met very few people who didn’t want to make more money… (Okay, okay, I’ve never met anyone who didn’t want to make more money, but I hear they’re out there. Somewhere….)
Ramm
February 24th, 2012
2:20 pm
@Prof
“They don’t collect anything from TRS. They may have individual perks from their schools. But that’s not true across the board for all schools.”
They collect from TRS. See:http://www.trsga.com/media/168591/cover%20+%20text%2011-11.pdf
“If you terminate your TRS covered employment you may apply for a refund of contributions and interest; however, you are not eligible for a refund after you accept other TRS covered employment. Members who are not actively working in their TRS covered positions during the summer months because the school year has ended are not considered terminated from TRS covered employment and therefore are not eligible for a refund.
Your refund payment from TRS is a lump-sum distribution of your contributions and interest in your TRS membership account. Partial withdrawals and loans are not allowed.”
Liz Gaston
February 24th, 2012
3:06 pm
The “mumbo jumbo” terminology concerning teachers’ salaries should be revised. It should be concerned with the classroom teachers’ average take home compensation from which they pay all of their bills. And this should not include management and administration personnel in calculating the average classroom teacher’s compensation. A teacher does not get any compensation from pension benefits (that they pay for each month of their teaching career) until they retire. During the course of their teaching career, pension benefits do not pay for theirs and/or their families’ food, housing, clothing, etc. To add retiree benefits, paid usually after age 65, to calculate teachers’ take home compensation is ludicrous. Actual take home compensation for most classroom teachers in the state is probably more like $40,000 annually.
redweather
February 24th, 2012
3:38 pm
@Liz, I know what you mean but employers routinely factor everything into their “compensation packages.” That’s the way the game is played these days.
Prof
February 24th, 2012
3:38 pm
@ Ramm. This is what you originally stated: “If [teachers] leave before being vested, they collect a check for every dollar they have paid in, plus interest.”
After scrolling through to the very end of your link, I see the paragraph you’ve quoted here. However, that check cannot be collected before the teacher is vested as you state, because the teacher is only “TRS covered” AFTER being vested; and vesting comes after 10 years of service (making contributions).
However, I see that my original post was inaccurate. It’s only those first 9 years before vesting that are zilch, nada, kaput. Unfortunate for that 40% of K-12 teachers who reportedly leave the field within their first 5 years. But thank you for correcting my error.
Prof
February 24th, 2012
3:42 pm
P.S. to Ramm. Please see Lee’s 2:06 pm post.