State approves class size waivers again. Larger classes and fewer teachers reflect financial free fall.
The AJC is reporting that the state school board waived class size requirements yet again, expecting that next school year may be the worst yet for financially strapped local systems.
A combination of state cuts, $1 billion this year, and plummeting property taxes, ongoing fallout from the housing collapse, will add to the financial stresses facing systems next year.
According to the AJC: This is an excerpt. Please read entire story.
On Thursday, the state school board unanimously approved extending the waiver for larger classes through the next school year. For students and parents, this could mean more students in some classrooms and fewer teachers.
Maximum class size requirements vary. For instance, state law says a regular kindergarten class should have no more than 18 students, while a fine arts or foreign language class in grades 6-8 can have 33 students. In addition to the state waiver, school systems also have permission from lawmakers to establish class size averages, meaning they can take an English class with 30 students and one with 10 for an average class size of 20.
“They don’t want to do this. They don’t have a choice,” said Garry McGiboney, associate state school superintendent for policy and charter schools. “For some systems, their solvency is going to depend on things like this.”
Cobb County is adding two students per classroom at all grade levels, a move that will allow the school system to cut 250 teaching jobs. Studies and common sense suggest that classrooms with fewer students are better learning environments, said Cobb school district spokesman Jay Dillon.
“Unfortunately, the economic reality is that we are facing a $62 million deficit, and 90 percent of our operating budget is committed to payroll,” Dillon said.
The state has been giving school systems blanket waivers from mandatory class sizes since the 2009-2010 school year. Other requirements have been relaxed. Most notably, school systems have been allowed to abandon the traditional 180-day calendar, which two-thirds have done to save money, even though they’re required to maintain the same hours of instruction.
Metro area districts have seen property values and taxes drop significantly and have been told they’re not yet at the bottom. McGiboney said staff at the state Department of Education has been concerned about the potential impact on student achievement, but doesn’t have enough data yet to draw any firm conclusions.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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83 comments Add your comment
Fled
February 17th, 2012
9:37 am
More bad news for the teachers and students of Georgia. The steady stream of bad news never seems to end. I don’t know how 34 kids could fit into the classrooms I worked in. How anyone is going to give excellent instruction under such circumstances is beyond me. It simply is not possible to be effective when teaching kids has been replaced by managing kids.
If you choose to remain in a failing system in a failing state (thanks, republicans), then you must also accept you are participating in your own oppression. Teachers, there are many places that will welcome you with open arms. In fact, several international educational recruiters have told me that Georgia remains one of the best places for them. Georgia teachers have reputations for being hard workers and not complaining (too much, anyway). Teachers of Georgia, you have skills that are in demand. You don’t have to take it anymore unless you are so beaten down that you have given up on yourself.
Had enough yet, teachers?
Give up. Throw in the towel. Flee.
ByteMe
February 17th, 2012
9:43 am
Hey, I got a great idea! Why not siphon away more state money for Charter Schools!!!
Insert your own snark about “Go Fish!” here.
crankee_yankee
February 17th, 2012
9:48 am
Imagine my surprise. I thought the legislature was going to focus on important issues this year and stay away from hot-button items that would eat up time. I guess that is why they are floating bills like allowing guns to be carried in schools but are avoiding coming up with a better way of funding those same schools.
Oh, I see it now, over-max the classrooms, generate a rats-in-a-cage situation but give the teachers guns so they can control things. Brilliant.
question
February 17th, 2012
9:56 am
As I read the article, I wondered why the reporter(s) quoted everyone “associated” with education: parents, Tim Callahan, etc, but did not report any quotes from teachers – the true front line in this situation. Or, for that matter, any kids. What happened? Would no one quote on the record or was it an oversight? Wouldn’t teachers be able to best explain the impact on their daily professional requirements?
carlosgvv
February 17th, 2012
9:59 am
When I was in school, in the 40’s and 50’s, classes always had at least 30 students and often times more. No one ever complained. Why is it such a bad thing now?
cris
February 17th, 2012
10:00 am
@Crankee – with a max of 35 students in my room, the gun is for myself, not the students
cris
February 17th, 2012
10:01 am
@carlos….behavior was quite different in the 40’s and 50’s
Maureen Downey
February 17th, 2012
10:02 am
@Question, I assume the story was written out of the meeting yesterday, which the reporter attended. (Those meetings can go most of the day.) The folks quoted were likely at the meeting. (I give the reporter credit for getting parents’ comments in the piece, given that reporters have to turn these pieces around in less than a hour sometimes.)
What often happens is that the news story is written off the news — the board action at the board meeting Thursday — and then a follow is done that goes deeper.
Maureen
Mountain Man
February 17th, 2012
10:08 am
“Why is it such a bad thing now?”
I am sure that teachers will tell you that maintaining discipline in a class of forty is no different than with 25 students. Also, the level on one-on-one assistance for kids who need it is no different in a class of forty , either. In the 40s and 50s we didn’t have SPED students in the regular classrooms, students who failed attended summer school or were just “held back”, and discipline was not a problem, because a the “board of education” was ready.
Atlanta Mom
February 17th, 2012
10:12 am
I’d like to say I’m surprised, but that would be a lie.
ScienceTeacher671
February 17th, 2012
10:16 am
I wonder what the fire marshal has to say about 35 students in a room built for 25?
frustrated APS mom
February 17th, 2012
10:24 am
Yet another thing to be frustrated about. My kindergartner’s class has 24 students. My fifth grader’s class has 30. Don’t start with the whole “back in the day all our classes were that big” argument. I see a HUGE difference in the quality of their education since the class sizes have been rising. I think it is awful. The kids are stuffed into the classrooms and don’t even have anywhere to put their things. The teachers are overwhelmed and let discipline slide. The feedback from teachers is nearly nonexistent. So depressing.
Old timer
February 17th, 2012
10:26 am
In 1976 I had 42 in my reading class……guess what…they all did well on the ITBS…..they learned….big difference…they behaved!
TeacherMom4
February 17th, 2012
10:27 am
Great advice, Fled. Unless you own a home you can’t sell, have a spouse who will need a job, and children who will need to be fed, clothed and housed. My mother tells me stories of teaching 35-40 elementary kids in the the ’60s. The difference is discipline and parental expectations. She only paddles a child once, at the mother’s insistence. The kids behaved because it was a societal expectation. They worked hard because it was a societal expectation. If I work with an individual child or small group now, the rest of my students act like they are on an in-school vacation, even if they are supposed to be working on a clearly defined and “engaging” task. I can help the ones who need it only as long as I can count on the others to do what they’ve been told to do. Really, most will only work if they think I’m watching them, even if they know the work they are doing will be for a grade and “counts”. And yes, we talk a lot about how the goal for learning is not just for grades and tests but personal growth and foundational knowledge for later learning. The more kids there are, the less time on task there seems to be.
crankee_yankee
February 17th, 2012
10:27 am
@SciTeach
Probably not much. Too busy citing the building for having posters too close to the door, flammable airplane models hanging from the ceiling, & my favorite…”congested storage room.”
Michelle-Middle School
February 17th, 2012
10:28 am
@chris and @crankee-yankee, I totally agree. Any idiot who has never stepped into a classroom as a teacher can not make the decision regarding class size. Size DOES make a significant difference. One must also remember that schools built in recent years were not built with enough room to allow 30 or 40 students without stacking desks. In middle school, the closer the students are together, the more rambunctious they become. Believe it or not, socializing is a major issue and priority for almost all the students.
I am amazed that the State of Georgia cannot adequately fund schools, yet they consider moving funds from public school to charter and private schools. If public schools really want to improve, they need to make cuts in non-academic areas. Why in the world is there a basketball program in middle school when every county seems to have a recreation league basketball program. This is just one example where “priorities” are the issue. Is little Johnny better off if he can read or he can dribble?
Stand by your public school teachers and stop ignoring that many parents don’t give a hoot about disciplining their child, they never enforce any consequences for bad behavior, and they slam the teacher every time possible. Little Johnny’s attitude comes from home more than school. And, what about our lazy society? These children live in a land of “entitlement”, which is built into our current culture. How can a student on “free lunch” afford an $80 per month iPhone? Yes, our priorities are in the toilet.
world we live in, in cobb
February 17th, 2012
10:34 am
Well, if they can waiver to increase the class size – waiver to decrease the school year calendar from 180 days – then they need to waiver all the requirements students have to make on the standardized tests( that which they hold teachers accountable for).
At some point the ability to do more with considerably less reaches a saturation point…
Group By Ability
February 17th, 2012
10:43 am
Just wanted to add that not only could teachers enforce discipline in their classrooms back-in-the day, but students were evaluated for aptitude and ability grouped accordingly. This is an important concept. Research is clear that student cohorts should be maintained to a maximum of three different levels per class. This allowed teachers to teach larger groups b/c they were cohesive. Why don’t we do that now… particularly in elementary school? Well shucks, we don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. Meanwhile, education goes swirling around the bowl. BTW — my child’s elementary school parsed out kids per class based upon… wait for it… their last name. What a dumb approach.
crankee_yankee
February 17th, 2012
10:54 am
@Fled
My daughter is in a poor system. It was all that was available when she graduated 2 years ago. I told her to look outside this state for her own sanity. She now knows what I meant.
@Carlos
Discipline, or lack thereof, is a major contributing factor to increased class size problems. I have a kid in class currently who is misbehaving, had a conference w/mom & she blames the school for all his problems (academic as well as behavioral). He is failing & she has done nothing to support any change in his behavior, does not agree to his detentions or any of the other behavior mods we try to institute. We just “do not understand him.” Rubbish, he gets his cues from home & the rest of the kids in class suffer for it. But he cannot be removed to another class since they are all overcrowded and there just is nowhere to put him so all he sees is no consequences, backed up by mom. Did your mom make excuses for you back in the 40’s & 50’s?
crankee_yankee
February 17th, 2012
10:59 am
For all those who think class sizes do not matter, get approved to be a substitute teacher and step into our shoes for a day. Methinks you might change your perspective.
Brandy
February 17th, 2012
11:04 am
Right now, even in East Cobb, classrooms are so overcrowded you could not add another desk to the room! Two more students might save money on paper–but the school buildings were not built to house such large classes.
Of course, they are trying to keep the parents with power and voices (read: money) from finding out. The AC and Gifted classes, while slightly larger than ever before, trend well under the class size recommendations (obviously, that is all they are now). The on-level and below-level classes are taking up all of the slack, including many of the AC and Gifted kids who won’t fit in those classes. People need to speak up.
crankee_yankee
February 17th, 2012
11:05 am
Typo – should be “…nor any other…”
Beverly Fraud
February 17th, 2012
11:26 am
“They don’t want to do this. They don’t have a choice,” said Garry McGiboney, associate state school superintendent for policy and charter schools. “For some systems, their solvency is going to depend on things like this.”
But they DO have a choice…it’s called cut ADMINISTRATIVE BLOAT. But do you think the ADMINISTRATORS at DOE want to admit this is a problem, or do they want people to believe, “we’ve cut to the bone”?
V for Vendetta
February 17th, 2012
11:32 am
To all who say class sizes don’t matter if you have discipline . . .
You’re right.
But we don’t have ANY discipline. Sigh.
crankee_yankee
February 17th, 2012
11:35 am
@group by…
You are so right when it comes to grouping. Scheduling of any kind is now out of the teacher’s hands. I teach a MS connections class. In the past, my department would get together and review our upcoming classes. When we saw possible conflicts we adjusted our class roles amongst us to minimize them. Can’t do that anymore. With the advent of computer scheduling, we no longer have any input and the person doing the scheduling does not know the kids. She is a low paid clerk who just runs the numbers according to her training. What is easiest for her? Run the kids alphabetically. The kids are grouped the same way in class after class, year after year. They become overly familiar with each other, build close friendships within the class and work on thier socialization skills ad nauseum in class. When we ask to be able to give input to scheduling decisions, we are told nothing can be done, the computer can’t accomodate that kind of scheduling, hogwash.
catlady
February 17th, 2012
12:33 pm
“McGiboney said staff at the state Department of Education has been concerned about the potential impact on student achievement, but doesn’t have enough data yet to draw any firm conclusions.”
However, he said, they will fund 5-6 “advisory” positions at $100,000 for members of the governor’s family. The advisors are expecting to invent data to justify the move within the next 3 years. TIC
Ron F.
February 17th, 2012
1:17 pm
It’s definitely easier to teach to 20 than to 35, but I’ve done both and lived to tell about it. It’s not about the number of kids, it’s about the teacher’s attitude about it. I don’t like having 35 at one time in a high school class, but that just means I have to set and enforce the rules. I can do that.
cris
February 17th, 2012
1:35 pm
@Ron – I try to keep a positive attitude as well…but dang it, sometimes it’s difficult….I currently have a class with 32…..1/4 which are special ed/504 kids….I don’t feel that I’m doing a good job for any of them…..
Ole Guy
February 17th, 2012
1:38 pm
Carlosgvv, I believe you’ve struck a very good issue. The problems faced by the educational systems are certainly challenging. However, many of these issues have been perceived as insurmountable; terrible terrible awful awful problems simply because the HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO BECOME SO. These people have become so gd lazy…the mere thought of actually having to ADAPT to economic reality causes the organizational TILT mechanism to go full swing. Unfortunatly, these kids are going to become as rigid and as inflexible as their parents (the idiot 30/40 sometimes of the day) and leaders.
Lee
February 17th, 2012
1:45 pm
But wait, according to the resident AJC Obama schill, Jay Bookman, Barry Bailout saved GM and the US economy is back in the land of milk and honey.
Bookman lied. Knock me over with a feather….
The Deal
February 17th, 2012
1:57 pm
There are other reasons why larger classes used to work and no longer work anymore in addition to discipline. Teachers in these days have very specific requirements of what they have to teach. Teachers in the “old” days could just go with the flow in their classes. Teachers are under tremendous pressure now to teach topics, test on them by a specific date, and all that jazz, much more difficult with more students.
crankee_yankee
February 17th, 2012
2:21 pm
@ OldGuy
I arive at school @7:30 for an 8:30 start time. Kids arrive @ 8:50. I teach 6 periods. My planning period is also my lunch period. Classes “end” at 4:00 but not really. Bus call goes ’til almost 4:30, can’t just throw the little darlings out the door before their bus arrives. I then finally have some time where I can plan the next day’s lessons (I need to plan for 4 different classes), update my website, write reports on any issues requiring it, all the additional paperwork I am now required to complete to “prove” I am doing my job, contact parents on any of a number of issues, deal with club issues or meetings (yes I sponsor a student after/before school club) and feel comfortable leaving around 6:00 pm. I’m paid a salary based on an 8 hour day but regularly put in 10 – 10 1/2 hours.
I won’t even count the additional time I spend attending staff development afetr school (without pay), conferences (on my own dime) & training (ditto) to keep my skills up to date “adapting” to the changes in educational philosophy, etc.
I guess you’re right, I’m just too “gd lazy”. I better set my alarm for an earlier wake-up. Probably should put in 12 hours for 8 hours pay I have been told by my administration I should be happy to be getting because “…after all, (I) have a job.”
Ole Guy
February 17th, 2012
2:28 pm
Deal, these are, unfortunately, the educational realities with which the teacher corps must grapple. In short…teachers of the late 20th/21st centurys are not allowed to do their jobs; they must, instead, appease the gods of pc and their “keepers”/the administrators and educational leaders who have miserably failed in their responsibilities of fostering generations in preparing for this crazy world.
While supposedly wise people, who dare to employ nom de plumes which suggest a base of knowledge (are you out there…PROF?) insist that any mere thought of teacher solidarity, by way of unionization, is simply to be considered a non-issue, simply because…OH, IT”S NOT ALLOWED…teachers remain, in sad fact of reality, handmaidens of educational fallacy. Teachers are/should be the ONLY source of the HOW TO TEACH bible…not parents, not administrators, not legislators and government “leaders” who, every now and then, come out with some half-baked notion of how teachers should be doing their jobs.
Deal, if teachers could do their jobs AS THEY PROFESSIONALLY SEE FIT, it wouldn’t matter if their classes had to be conducted in a theater using bullhorns and microphones. The problems you outline are, indeed, the reality du jour, however, they need not be.
C Jae of EAV
February 17th, 2012
2:36 pm
I’m no educator, but I’ve spent time as parent over the years observing classrooms and there is no doubt in my mind that class size MATTERS !!
In my experience even in a small class (of say 15-18), all it takes is 2-3 disruptive students to throw the balance of the class off. You double that size to 25-30 and the level of disruption increases to a point beyond the average teacher’s ability to maintain order.
This approach may save a buck, but will manifest unintended consequences!!
Ole Guy
February 17th, 2012
3:00 pm
Yankee, as one yankee to another…QUITCHERBITCHIN! The issues you outline are, indeed, the realities of education. Your job provides enough “hoops” for you to practice your multi-tasking skills. You, the teacher corps, have assumed these tasks by virtue of the fact that you have chosen the profession. As you dutifully go about the job of addressing these tasks, you ALLOW THE INFLUENCES OF THOSE WHO HAVE NO IDEA WHATSOEVER ON EDUCATIONAL MATTERS to rule the conduct of your job.
The lazy reference (perhaps SCARED, TIMID, or simply FREIGHTENED INTO FRUITLESS ACTION might be more appropos) is aimed at the fact that you “dance to the tune”…you dutifully accomplish these tasks which, while certainly appreciated, accomplish little in the way of actually turning out generations which are prepared to deal with, and conquor, the challenges presented by this crazy world.
While I’ve “suggested” the unionization of teachers many times as the only way you, the teacher corps, can be truly effective in your zeal to teach, no one, within the teacher corps, seems to want to rock the boat of status quo. You will describe, in great detail, the hoops which you daily must negotiate…attend meetings, work during so-called free times, work on furlough days, etc, etc, etc. All-too-often, these descriptions remind me of the “Joan of Arc” complex…those who are willing to sacrifice themselves in the interests of larger-than-self issues. While indeed admirable…SOLDIERS DON’T HAVE TO WANT TO DIE IN THE PERFORMANCE OF DUTY. A soldier, in wearing the uniform, always knows that death is a very real possibility, however, a good soldier will not needlessly place his head on the sacrificial altar. This is exactly what you do…every time you go on with the “woe is me” recounting of all the hoops which are shoved in your “duty paths”.
The day when I see someon, within the teacher corps, have the guts to lead the way toward effective teacher solidarity…not this MACE crap or other tea-and-crumpet organizations…that’s when I, the public, and more importantly, your students, will have respect for your efforts.
high school teacher
February 17th, 2012
3:24 pm
Fled, great idea. You wanna buy our house? We’re only about 40K upside down right now…
Just A Teacher
February 17th, 2012
3:31 pm
@ Ole Guy . . . I’m ready. Where and when is the organizational meeting? And just so you don’t doubt my sincerity, I should tell you that before I got into teaching, I tried to bring the United Steelworkers into a Georgia wire company. I lost my job over that one, but would do it again since I saw people getting injured and sometimes killed in an unsafe work environment for little more than minimum wage. I am also the son of a United Teamsters official, so I’m all for unionization. I say we organize, go on strike, and bring this state to its knees!
Brandy
February 17th, 2012
3:59 pm
@Just A Teacher & Ole Guy…Should we start a drive to post bail for you all, just in case?
JK
We might be on different radars ideologically most of the time, but, boy, am I with you on the union!
crankee_yankee
February 17th, 2012
4:05 pm
@Ole Guy
Must be nice sitting there telling us what we should do. I’ve been a member of NEA since my first year of teaching & am well aware of the power it wields in states where it is recognized as the collective bargaining agent. I have gone out on strike, up north.
But when a state legislates collective bargaining out of existence, you have to be willing to take a bullet (in this state, that might be literally) and never work again in the profession. I can’t do that, my ill wife needs my insurance. Will I cross a picket line if one gets set up? No. Will I set it up? Not at this time. I need to have nothing to lose. He/she who takes that stand will lose all he/she has worked for.
So I will continue to bitch, point out the fallacies others purport, and hope, someday, enough citizens see the fools the legislature is populated with and vote them out of office. Not likely here.
Dr. Monica Henson
February 17th, 2012
4:21 pm
I’m curious to know which “studies” Cobb district spokesman Jay Dillon is referencing that suggest, along with “common sense,” that “classrooms with fewer students are better learning environments.” As there are none, other than the studies that suggest, quite strongly, that in the primary grades and in classes composed of high-risk students at older grade levels, should be limited in order to create maximum impact on student achievement outcomes. Quite simply, the research base over the last several decades is clear that decreasing class size does NOT increase teacher effectiveness. Excellent teachers teach in an outstanding manner regardless of whether they have a large class or a small class. The same holds true for mediocre and poor teachers–teachers do not change THE WAY THEY TEACH when their class size is lowered.
I have posted at great length in other topics on this blog about the many ways that teachers can work smarter, not harder, to provide accomplished instruction that gets great results when they are faced with larger classes. I acknowledge that there may be some situations when administrative fiat dictates so much in terms of kill-and-drill and test prep that teacher creativity is stymied.
I taught English for several years in classes of 30 to 35, heterogeneously grouped middle schoolers, approximately 15% special education inclusion, many English Language Learners, in a Title I district with more than 50 languages spoken,in the late 1990s and early 2000s. The largest class I have ever taught, outside of college lecturing, had 37 kids. My students consistently scored at the top of the charts in the state on the Massachusetts Comprehensive Assessment System (MCAS) tests, which are not simple bubble-sheet tests. I assigned plenty of writing and used John Collins and Nancie Atwell, among others, as resources to learn methods by which to maximize my ability to provide meaningful feedback when marking essays. My kids wrote research papers (even in middle school) and many essays. I had five kids of my own at home to raise, and I was able to have a life.
When I became department chair of the comprehensive high school, many of my previous 8th graders signed up for my sophomore and senior English classes, so I was able to see that they scored well on SAT and AP exams, not just state tests, in small part as a result of being taught well in my high school English courses.
It’s not impossible to teach large classes. What it takes is excellent teaching, strong administrative leadership that supports such teaching, and the simple will and ability to do it and do it well. Is it easier to teach a class of 12 students than a class of 32? It’s a lot less paperwork. But the class discussions and projects are not nearly as lively and fun. And it’s like shooting fish in a barrel, in terms of challenge.
irisheyes
February 17th, 2012
4:27 pm
Where do I sign up for the union? I was just thinking yesterday as I sat next to one of my students for 20 minutes trying to get her to write two sentences that with 25, I can’t give each of them the attention they need and deserve.
frustrated APS mom
February 17th, 2012
4:57 pm
My 6 year old spends half his day sitting and waiting for the other kids to finish their work so he can move on to the next thing. There are 4 kids in the class (including mine) that are way ahead of the others. They have to sit quietly with their hands in their laps until the other kids are done, which is torture for him. They won’t even let him read a book while he waits. Lame! My 11 year old spends a good bit of his time at school being used as a free tutor for the stragglers. Lame! If they would group the kids according to ability, then I wouldn’t mind the class size being larger, but they just don’t. Why won’t they do this? How hard could it possibly be? And like I said before, there isn’t enough physical space for the kids that are stuffed into these rooms. You can throw every study under the sun at me and I still won’t buy the argument that class size doesn’t matter.
Dr. Monica Henson
February 17th, 2012
5:03 pm
@frustrated APS mom: What you are describing is not a class size problem–it’s a TEACHER problem. Making children sit and wait on others, or making them tutor the lesser skilled children, is educational malpractice. The reason why students are no longer grouped according to ability levels is because it has been demonstrated (1) the “best” teachers are assigned to the “best” kids, which increases the achievement gap between the highest- and lowest-performing kids and (2) effective differentiation of instruction plus research-based, effectively implemented cooperative learning has been shown to provide strong benefits to all levels of learners. The key is that the teacher must be able to teach well, and what you are describing, which is the opposite of good teaching, is sadly all too common.
I do agree that there has to be sufficient physical space in order to accommodate the numbers if class sizes are increased.
Anonmom
February 17th, 2012
8:47 pm
They need a rule that 75% or 80% of all funds must be spent in the classroom… then the adminsitrative bloat would have to be addressed. The fraud and corruption could maybe be minimized. We waste so much money and the state DOE just goes and gives “passes” like this and the kids suffer. The kids deserve small class sizes and attention from teachers… the problems get compounded becasue teachers lose their patience more easily in such crowded rooms… it’s no fun for the kids and they can’t learn and they hate school and it’s hard to get back once they lose it. My son lost it in 9th grade and as a college sophomore he still hasn’t really gotten it back. Teachers should have supported Barnes … you didn’t know how good you had it.
crankee_yankee
February 17th, 2012
11:06 pm
@ Dr MH
I agree with your assertion that having students sit & wait for others to catch up is poor teaching. Having students teach others, not necessarily, though, in the case mentioned, probably is.
There are studies that support peer coaching/tutoring/teaching. It solidifies understanding in the tutor and there is a large program utilizing it in my district.
Yet, I cannot agree with one of the assertions concerning why ability grouping should be avoided. If I follow you, 1) the “good” students will get the “good” teachers. Who is responsible for that? Maybe the administrators? Put the blame where it belongs. Don’t pan a legitimate question about a delivery modality by glossing over an administrative failure. Yes, 2) cooperative learning & differentiation are proven modalities. Just don’t try to bolster #2 with the administrative failure of #1.
I'm a teacher
February 18th, 2012
1:25 am
@ Dr. MH
I agree with you and crankee yankee about the sit and wait but also with CY about the rest of your post. I also want to point out that one of the benefits mentioned in studies that support multi-ability grouping is the peer coaching (which is similar to tutoring) where the higher level students “coach” or help the lower level students.
Also MH, you make a blanket statement class size is only an issue if the teacher is not good enough to handle it – I beg to differ. I teach high school science – try doing physics and chemistry labs with more than around 28 (which happens to be the state suggested limit – but is never adhered to) students – even with well behaved, on task students having more than 28-29 students is a safety concern.
Janet
February 18th, 2012
2:03 am
@frustrated APS mom — I feel you!! I am a frustrated Gwinnett mom whose kindergartener has 26 kids in her class…. and it is chaotic!
We are experiencing the same sort of things where my kid, while she may not be gifted, is one of the high achievers of the class and spends ALOT of time waiting around and/or helping the other kids do their work. I am a weekly volunteer in the classroom and I see how many of the other kids (especially the younger boys) come up to my daughter and ask her for help with reading and/or repeating the directions for them because they weren’t paying attenton or sometimes helping them clean up. It’s astonishing how much time she spends assisting or cleaning up after her classmates and it’s all because she always finishes her assignments so much earlier. She doesn’t seem to mind because she thinks she’s just being helpful and wants to please. But I do mind!!!!! I want her to actively be learning in school, not serve as the helper.
Let’s just say frustrated is not the right word for what I feel……
Beverly Fraud
February 18th, 2012
3:01 am
Much like self help gurus who reference each other in “support” of their positions, educators have been known to do the same. Check out the following for some enlightenment on one so called educational magic bullet
In a recent Education Week article, ASCD author Mike Schmoker took a bear claw swipe at the practice of using differentiated instruction in the classroom, calling it a “novelty” that unnecessarily complicates teachers’ work.
He begins:
“Several years ago, I had a courteous, if troubling, e-mail exchange with the architect of a hugely popular instructional innovation. She had heard that I had been criticizing this approach. (I had.) In a series of e-mails, I explained my reasons, starting with the fact that there was no research or strong evidence to support its widespread adoption. I asked, with increasing importunity, for any such evidence. Only after multiple requests did I finally receive an answer:
******There was no solid research or school evidence.*******
Beverly Fraud
February 18th, 2012
3:04 am
There are those who would imply that differentiated instruction should be accepted with the same degree of certainty as the law of gravity.
It shouldn’t; and let’s not make the mistake that the same level of irrefutable evidence is there for both.
Ron F.
February 18th, 2012
9:49 am
Beverly- we’re having to deal with the “differentiated instruction” wave of popularity in my district. I find that it sounds good to admins who haven’t taught in years or became admins because they couldn’t teach very well. As I told my instructional coach the other day, “differentiated instruction is a buzzword for what good teachers do all the time- teach different kids using different methods that work because you know the kids.” I do what I have to to appease the powers-that-be, and they regularly praise my teaching skills. I just smile and roll my eyes after they leave…
I'm a teacher
February 18th, 2012
10:04 am
Ron the difference is now we have to spend time documenting every little detail about how we are differentiating instead of spending the considerable time it takes to plan and prepare all the material it takes to provide the varied approaches.
Beverly Fraud
February 18th, 2012
10:31 am
I wonder what percentage of teachers out there have been to “differentiated instruction workshops” where the presenters THEMSELVES differentiated the instruction during the workshop ITSELF in order to “best meet the needs of the staff”?
I mean if it’s all THAT and a bag of chips…
Ron F.
February 18th, 2012
11:56 am
Beverly- LOLOL!! They’re only paid to tell US how to do it, not to do it themselves!
I’m a teacher- totally agree with you on the documentation. I spend more time just trying to make what I’m doing fit the paperwork requirement than I do actually teaching it. I’m to the point that I make the lesson plan look right and then teach what the kids need me to teach- funny, but I’ve never had an evaluator mention the difference.
I'm a teacher
February 18th, 2012
12:15 pm
Beverly – I totally agree – it is like when all the district office people kept spouting “Best Practices” at us but didn’t use any of those “best practices” in their presentations.
Ron – that’s because they never look at the lesson plans except to make sure they are on the correct form – then they are filed away never to see the light of day again. So much of what I have to do now days is just a waste of time – time I could be using to on my students
Ole Guy
February 18th, 2012
4:01 pm
Look folks, one needn’t have burned one’s hand to realize that placing hand on hot stove will surely result in burned hands. Many of you seem to feel that “pointed words”, from non-educators, are to be relegated to the dust bin of suggestions. However, judging from the “educational products”…hs/college grads (those who actually manage to graduate)…we, the non-educators out there see every day, it becomes painfully obvious that the job, for which you have contracted, is not being accomplished. This is either because you are not prepared; not qualified for the job…OR…maybe, just maybe the working conditions in which you find yourselves are not conducive to the job. I don’t know how simpler I can pose this question; this issue. If your employers, the states ed systems, are not providing the necessary materials (copy paper for example); if those employers are demanding too much in the way of extraneous taskings which place your teaching duties in jeapardy, etc, it is up to YOU to do something about it. Your complaints; your detailed descriptions of the time-consuming duties which are cast upon you while drowning out teaching time…these are things which…while the public is extremely sympathetic…YOU must tackle. I realize the very real job threats which are ever-present…been there/done that.
I don’t have the “procedures” in my hip pocket. All I can offer is…do what must be done.
cobbteacher
February 18th, 2012
5:34 pm
I had one of the county “specialists” come to my classroom last week to demonstrate a technique that is being hailed as the greatest innovation in education. It was a complete failure. She had no idea how to communicate with my students, she never smiled and her tone was foreboding, they were terrified of her. After the demonstration she actually said that I should teach it to the “higher” kids in my class and then have them teach it to the rest since they didn’t understand it. Of course they didn’t, over half my class receives special education services and she was asking them to do higher order thinking at the drop of a hat, she gave no explanation of what she was doing she just bombarded them with questions. Her tone indicated that they were wrong even when they were on the right track. BTW she is paid over $100,000 a year for this. I make less now than I did when I began teaching over a decade ago but she just received a payraise.
Anonmom
February 19th, 2012
12:14 am
I think the studies show that “high level 3s” can shut down level 1s and 2s when they are grouped together and they themselves are bored to tears (these are the ‘truly gifted kids’ — e.g. the ones who can shut down if they are bored or who will make the class really interesting for themselves if they are not kept “engaged” by the teacher) — if you have a 1st grader doing multiplication and division and writing in paragraphs with other children who can’t read and do basic math, there are going to be issues (I’ve been there… it’s painful). The level 2s can assist the level 1s and feel good about themselves and reinforce lessons without shutting down themselves….. I’ve had trouble with my “low level 3″ — not extraordinarily gifted but gifted — not able to keep up with the truly gifted but always in class with them — now that he’s in college I “replay” some of those decisions. It might have been better for him to have spent more time with level 2s so he could have had a chance to get a “reality” check on how smart he is instead of always trying to ‘catch up’ to the “high level 3s” so there’s more to this than just sticking them all in the same room and differentiating. In some of the situations it’s not fair to the child or their peers (knowing what I know now, I probably should have pulled my “high level 3″ out of public school much sooner than end of 8th grade).
I'm a teacher
February 19th, 2012
12:57 am
Ole Guy – you say it is up to us to change the situation we find ourselves in – anytime a teacher tries to point out these waste of time tactics we are accused of not wanting to be held accountable and not caring about providing a good education for children. I am a member of GAE (mainly for the liability insurance) and have tried to work within that organization in my district and got nowhere. I have been in education for over 20 years and I know ways of working smarter not harder and have shared some of these with newer teachers. The point is – to really change education so that children get what they need there needs to be a partnership between parents and teachers.
Group By Ability
February 19th, 2012
8:42 am
The new “reality” teachers are facing is more students per class. While that’s a shame and I totally disagree with it, it appears that reality is here to stay. So, what can we do to make it just a tad easier for the teachers to TEACH? I will say it again… researchers for many years have supported three or less academic cohorts per class. Students must be of similar levels in order to reduce the teachers workload and increase their comprehension. Differentiated instruction to a class of 4 or more cohorts does NOT work! I’ll even go so far to say that differentiated instruction is a stupid idea whose 15 minutes of fame should be up.
I believe it was Janet who was lamenting about her child becoming the parapro for the class. I’ve been there and this is what any parent in that situation needs to do. Get your kid evaluated for full-grade acceleration. All three of mine took the Iowa Acceleration Scale tests and went up a grade. They are now in classrooms more attuned to THEIR abilities, although my eldest could have probably jumped another grade. Be warned, however. I had to argue like crazy to make this happen, and in my eldest son’s case, threaten to sue the school system. When his IAS scores came back, they finally stopped arguing with me and his teacher became the biggest supporter of his acceleration. As a second grader, it showed that he was reading on the 6th grade level and doing 8th grade math.
Yes, some kids are truly gifted and leaving them with their chronological-age peers should be a crime. And to the naysayers that will berate me by saying they can’t be mature enough to move up a grade, I say, “Hogwash!” In fact, I just subbed in my daughter’s 4th grade class. A group of 6 kids (my daughter included) had no problems focusing on the lesson and sitting quietly doing their own work. The other 15? Not so focused.
Janet: get your kid tested NOW before she learns it is acceptable to do the minimum and she tunes out. Researchers have also pointed out that kids disengage from school around 3rd grade. I know this b/c I did a lot of work with the gifted community. Do 8it now, or you will regret it.
Anonmom
February 19th, 2012
10:06 am
Beware of grade acceleration too far beyond age though (I agree with the necessity for academic purposes) — when they are elementary school aged (and younger) it makes beautiful sense — it gets dicey in middle and high school — which is why we did not consider this with our middle guy. My mother and mother-in-law both “accelerated” and both graduated high school at age 16 (they made my mother repeat 8th grade because she was too young for 9th…..) — one from NY and one from Miami and they started college at 16. I had a college roommate at 16. My son, with a June birthday (the oldest) was the 3rd youngest in his class — the one skipped up — was 6 months younger and my youngest, with an August birthday is the youngest in his class. It is hard when you get to high school and college and everyone is doing everything that you aren’t interested in and/or able to do (e.g. driving or dating). If you have the resources or are “poor enough” pull the high level 3 kids private as soon as you can… the programs are vastly different and there is aid available. There is a lot of unknown aid available for minorities particularly at the “strong” private schools. The opportunities for your child will be very different and you’ll be amazed. We had our heads in the sand; we were very committed to public school and wouldn’t consider it until our oldest was almost on a ledge and we were forced to wake up and really see what was happening and to stop making excuses. We waited too long. It’s been eye opening.
Anonmom
February 19th, 2012
10:08 am
FYI – the Goizetta foundation has put money out there for Latinos at some of the private schools and other funds exist for other minorities. Like college, don’t assume you won’t be able to afford it — it’s those in the middle and upper middle who struggle with it the most.
Dr. Monica Henson
February 19th, 2012
7:08 pm
@cranky_yankee and i’m a teacher: I have no problem with teachers implementing peer tutoring & coaching as part of a research-based instructional strategy in the classroom. What frustrated APS mom describes does not sound like anything of the sort, but rather a teacher who is abdicating responsibility for instruction. If a teacher is forcing advanced students to sit with hands folded and wait on slower peers to finish work, then I strongly doubt that any peer tutoring that is going on is part of a research-based design.
I have posted previously that class size linked to safety issues, such as lab-based science courses, is a legitimate reason for keeping the numbers lower. This is a marked distinction from the “lower class sizes = better teaching, more individualized attention, higher student achievement outcomes” argument that is trotted out so frequenty by CSR proponents, and which is not supported by the research base, except in cases of primary grades classrooms and high-risk classrooms for older students.
Dr. Monica Henson
February 19th, 2012
7:29 pm
@cranky_yankee, who posted, “If I follow you, 1) the “good” students will get the “good” teachers. Who is responsible for that? Maybe the administrators? Put the blame where it belongs. Don’t pan a legitimate question about a delivery modality by glossing over an administrative failure. Yes, 2) cooperative learning & differentiation are proven modalities. Just don’t try to bolster #2 with the administrative failure of #1.”
You are exactly correct, and the research base shows that administrators will generally place the “best” teachers with the “best” kids. I agree that this is a failure to provide instructional leadership as well as a failure of basic morality. Nevertheless, the squeaky wheels get the grease, and there is no squeakier wheel than the parent of the privileged high-achiever. If we could guarantee that ability-grouped classes would not result in ghettos of low-achievers consigned to the least accomplished teachers, I’d have no problem with it. Official state policy of the GaDOE now recommends that administrators place the most accomplished teachers with the children who need them the most.
Dr. Monica Henson
February 19th, 2012
7:37 pm
@Beverly Fraud & Ron F: I have actually attended some great differentiated instruction workshops where the presenters differentiated their presentations for the participants to model best practice. Elementary school teachers differentiate every day in very effective manners, and I learned a lot while teaching 7th and 8th grade in a K-8 school where I had the opportunity to visit K-2 classrooms during my planning time to observe how they used learning centers and other techniques. There is a substantial research base to support that differentiated instruction improves student achievement outcomes.
Dr. Monica Henson
February 19th, 2012
7:51 pm
@Group By Ability posted, “Yes, some kids are truly gifted and leaving them with their chronological-age peers should be a crime. And to the naysayers that will berate me by saying they can’t be mature enough to move up a grade, I say, ‘Hogwash!’”
I couldn’t agree more! The concept of an age-based cohort is ludicrous and is a construct designed for adults to be able to manage groups of children comfortably for the ADULTS, not because it is a sound educational practice. As a school principal, I encountered extreme resistance by teachers when I supported parents whose gifted children needed to be accelerated. The ridiculous argument that it is socially destructive to allow academically precocious children to move ahead is NOT supported in the least by any of the research base.
Another peeve I have is when children test into gifted programs, and their regular education teachers punish them by insisting that they have to complete every single assignment that they miss when they are with the gifted teacher. I did not permit this practice when I was a school principal. Regular ed teachers were required to collaborate with the gifted teacher, who advised whether assignments were appropriate & necessary. I did this in order to stem the desertion of many kids from the gifted program because they were inundated with busywork from their regular ed teachers and felt, rightfully so, that they were being punished for being bright enough to be pulled out for enrichment activities.
On the other hand, I also advocate strongly the approach of the Accelerate Schools Project at the University of Connecticut that teaching strategies ordinarily reserved for gifted children be made available in the regular education classroom for all students. I practiced this myself whenever I taught at-risk kids or heterogeneously grouped classes. It’s criminal to relegate the low-skilled kids to worksheets & kill-&-drill while the high-skilled kids are allowed to participate in fun, engaging, higher-order thinking activities.
This is actually the essence of differentiated instruction: “fair” does not necessarily mean that everyone does the same thing at the same time. And there are many ways to be gifted and talented. And all children deserve great teaching.
ScienceTeacher671
February 19th, 2012
8:13 pm
I’ll agree with the posts by I’m a Teacher and Beverly Fraud, and add that most of the people I’ve seen who say class size doesn’t matter taught large groups of higher SES, higher level kids in schools with well-behaved students and strong administrators, and/or have been out of the classroom for 10 years or more.
In my district, the county office administrators/trainers who are telling us “how to teach” have never used the strategies they are suggesting that we use, particularly not with large classes.
frustrated APS mom
February 19th, 2012
9:46 pm
Interesting to read all the posts from teachers that are against differentiated instruction. I will say that my 11 year old is very gifted and we have been dealing with the peer tutoring since he started school. Back then he would read the AR quizzes to the kids that couldn’t read well. Fine. The AR thing became a babysitter for him in first grade when his teacher didn’t really know what else to do with him. She would let him read and quiz and read and quiz. He got a trophy that year for earning more AR points than anyone in the elementary school had ever earned. He was 7.
Each year we have had to deal with this in varying degrees and some teachers have handled it better than others. His third and fourth grade teachers were wonderful and we finally started to relax. His teacher this year makes me angriest of all – they have had 3 big group projects already and she paired him with the 3 lowest achieving kids in the class. Guess who did ALL the work. It was such a joke. They just started their IB Exhibition work and she paired him with 2 of these kids again, plus the kid with major behavior disorders that spends most of the day pulled out of class. They don’t even try! My son says it is easier to just do it himself than it is to try to get them involved. We are pulling him after this year and he will be going to private school. Enough is enough. I just hate that my little one seems to be headed down the same path. Hopefully we will be able to afford to get him out sooner than later, but the older one has to take priority. I am a former teacher and I know what is going on. I’m not just some mom that thinks her kids are geniuses.
Anonmom
February 19th, 2012
10:26 pm
On the bright side, leaving the level 3s in the classrooms as “peer tutors” so long as they can cope does give them the “advantage” of learning coping skills and learning about kids from all sorts of backgrounds…. You just don’t want to lose them. It’s a tough road to walk. They really will have a hard time staying out of trouble if they are bored.
Beverly Fraud
February 20th, 2012
5:05 am
More from Schmoker, whose ideas are also supported by a substantial research base.
Research on the effectiveness of differentiation is difficult to do because it involves the use of many different strategies at once (click here to see “Differentiation Model,”). Because of such uncertainties, Schmoker, a former school administrator, believes teachers should forget creating different versions of lessons and plan just one—a really, really good one. “Good lessons start with a clear, curriculum-based objective and assessment, followed by multiple cycles of instruction, guided practice, checks for understanding (the soul of a good lesson), and ongoing adjustments to instruction,” Schmoker wrote in Education Week.
What Schmoker’s approach also seems to appreciate is that teachers are FINITE beings with FINITE time constraints.
And do we dare ponder, as Dr. John Trotter has, how much farther along we would be if developed policies that supported the teacher to put the ONUS of learning on the STUDENT, and not the teacher to find which of an INFINITE number of psychological buttons to push to get Johnny to read?
Maybe what we need more of is CONSISTENT consequences for non performing, rather than expecting teachers whose authority has been consistently cut off at the knees, to continue to perform miracles.
But then again, if we made education that simple, “experts” couldn’t GET PAID to tell teachers what to do, could they? (Not that ALL “experts” are useless, mind you)
Beverly Fraud
February 20th, 2012
6:13 am
“It’s criminal to relegate the low-skilled kids to worksheets & kill-&-drill while the high-skilled kids are allowed to participate in fun, engaging, higher-order thinking activities.”
Agreed it is “criminal” to relegate or limit a child to SOLELY working in that way.
Having said that…
I pose the question, is this one of the ways that education, in its rush to be “innovative” is actually MYOPIC and being myopic actually does a disservice to children?
Meaning, does the possibility NOT exists that some children at times, actually ENJOY worksheets?
Because they are a TANGIBLE task, with a CLEAR expectation, and can offer IMMEDIATE feedback? And that some students might actually be TOTALLY FRUSTRATED with a self-perceived “vagueness” of some “higher ordered activities”?
Oh my God, did I just commit educational heresy for DARING to not follow in lockstep with EDUCATIONAL dogma?
Don’t get me wrong-I am NOT arguing for worksheets to be the SOLE ORDER OF THE DAY. And not arguing against giving EVERY child a chance to engage in ALL manner and levels of thinking.
But is it not true that educrats have a tendency to DEMONIZE some methods, if for no other apparent reason that they are SIMPLE to implement, actually are more cost effective, in terms of time for the teacher and the students and…don’t rely on PAYING someone from the educational industrial complex HUGE sums of money on “expert training”
Beverly Fraud
February 20th, 2012
6:34 am
“Interesting to read all the posts from teachers that are against differentiated instruction.”
Frustrated APS mom not so much a matter of being “against” as it is not accepting it as IMMUTABLE DOGMA, and recognizing that there are some very respected people out there who are asking FAIR and LEGITIMATE questions about it.
“His teacher this year makes me angriest of all – they have had 3 big group projects already and she paired him with the 3 lowest achieving kids in the class.”
“Group projects” Another thing that has been accepted as EDUCATIONAL DOGMA. Not that there CAN’T be benefits, but again there can be DETRIMENTS which many administrators are loathe to admit because it’s become DOGMA.
What can one say to Frustrated APS mom-giving your son a chance to work with TOTALLY DYSFUNCTIONAL students is some sort of “life-lesson”? What about giving the TOTALLY DYSFUNCTIONAL student the “life-lesson” as in “if you ACT in totally dysfunctional ways, you’ll get REMOVED from the learning environment”? Sounds like a MUCH better life lesson to learn than “I can ACT in a disruptive manner, and someone ELSE will pick up my slack.” Is that REALLY the lesson we want to teach?
I feel your pain Frustrated APS mom. Not sure Errol Davis and the rest of APS brass do, so you MAY have to do what Fled did to Georgia. FLEE APS. Which, since APS likes to be so “data driven” begs the question, what percentage of parents who pull their children out of APS schools feel happier for doing so?
Bet you don’t need any ERASERS to make that a high number LOL
ScienceTeacher671
February 20th, 2012
8:11 am
Beverly Fraud, I also take exception to the phrase “drill and kill,” especially as used in the elementary school environment. The idea is that drilling to mastery will kill the joy of learning.
I would suggest that this mentality is part of the reason education is lagging in Georgia. Students actually need some of that drilling in order to be successful later on – for instance, math facts should be automatic in the upper grades, and students should not need to have calculators to add, subtract, multiply and divide single digits.
Also, students (and people in general) need to learn that not everything we need to do is “fun”, and they needn’t expect to be entertained 24/7.
Beverly Fraud
February 20th, 2012
9:09 am
Beverly Fraud, I also take exception to the phrase “drill and kill,” especially as used in the elementary school environment. The idea is that drilling to mastery will kill the joy of learning.
Good point. I imagine the child who EXPERIENCES SUCCESS doesn’t call it “drill and kill”.
Joanne Taylor
February 20th, 2012
11:12 am
This is to carlosgvvv, back in the 40’s and 50’s the children were respectful to other children and adults. I am in an elementary school and I have no problems, but once they get to middle and high school that respect goes out the window. I can’t imagine that many children in one classroom. It is sad, always goes back to money.
Bama Girl
February 20th, 2012
10:04 pm
I was accelerated as a child by one grade, when the school asked to accelerate me an additional two grades my parents said no because of the age difference. Socially it would have been a nightmare, it was bad enough being a year behind my classmates with dating and driving, being three years behind and I never would have left home. I had very understanding elementary teachers, I only spent half the day in my classes, the other half I was a library volunteer or I went into the lower grade levels and worked with students teaching them to read. Unfortunately peer tutors aren’t utilized this way now. I fear it is due to the different social approaches. My mother would have spanked me and washed my mouth out with soap if I had said anything about another student having difficulties. Today it is standard practice for students to denigrate the struggling students. Parents encourage this behavior and pat their children on the back for doing it. Both my children are well above average and both have been taught to help people in need, they are harassed for this but stand their ground. If other students would follow suit perhaps the larger class size wouldn’t be such an issue.
Entitlement Society
February 21st, 2012
10:39 am
25 in my child’s APS Kindergarten classroom last year was enough for us to pull him out and send him to private school. If you child is at the top of the class, trust me, s/he is the one that suffers from a large class size. One behavior problem in the class ruins it for everyone, not even taking into account the “slow” learners. This was at one of the “very good” Buckhead elementary schools, so don’t think that you’re fine just because you’re in a good school district. These APS teachers aren’t trained to handle the varied personalities and learning abilities of 25+ different children. If you care about your children, you’ll find an alternative to keep them challenged and engaged in learning, rather than serving as a peer tutor. Speaking from experience, class size IS an issue. Why do you think private school have much smaller student/teacher ratios? If it wasn’t effective why would they allocate budget dollars to teacher salaries?
Group By Ability
February 21st, 2012
12:32 pm
@ ScienceTeacher671: very well said. The current differentiation model plus spiraling concepts from grade to grade drive me absolutely nuts. I have noticed that a concept is introduced, worked on for a couple days, and then shelved for a couple weeks until it rears its head again. Because of this, I work extra hard in the afternoon to ensure that my ES student has “mastered” a skill. I’m even going beyond the curriculum and teaching her to diagram sentences now. I think that half-way through 4th grade is long enough for my kid to be able to identify the parts of speech. What I have found is that she can do this with any consistency.
Group By Ability
February 21st, 2012
1:52 pm
Oops… should have said she can NOT do this with any consistency. Then, I should add the word YET.
DeKalbite@Dr. Monica Henson
February 21st, 2012
4:39 pm
“the studies that suggest, quite strongly, that in the primary grades and in classes composed of high-risk students at older grade levels, should be limited in order to create maximum impact on student achievement outcomes”
I would imagine that that is the case for most Title 1 low income schools. They have a disproportionate amount of high risk students. Can you cite any affluent schools with a high risk population? Affluent schools generally send students to school with skills that are necessary for school success, volunteer for clerical duties to offset many paperwork and non teaching activities teachers are engaged in, buy the extra supplies needed for larger class sizes, and in certain instances simply hire extra teachers. Their scores are generally good no matter what the teaching conditions. It’s in the high risk schools that student achievement is MOST impacted by the students’ environment and of course the quality of the teacher as you pointed out.
Do you know how many low income Title 1 schools there are in Georgia? Most of the metro area school systems are either mainly Title 1 or are entirely Title 1. It is in those situations that high quality teaching and class size matters. Aren’t those the very ones in which we are having such difficulty getting most students to master content? The student achievement data says that the low income Title 1 schools master content at a lower rate than the non Title 1 more affluent schools in Georgia.
How do you propose to attract and retain excellent teachers to low income schools that have a large percentage of their student population achieving below grade level? Do you suppose you will attract these wonderful teachers by larger class sizes, increased paperwork, longer hours, more difficult classroom management challenges, and greater stress? Having five children, iI’m sure you realize that most excellent teachers have personal lives with friends, spouses, and children. They even like being involved in some volunteer work for their churches, synagogues or community organizations.
I see you taught English. Did you have safety issues? Did you know that lab accidents for students rise sharply in excess of 24 students iabstinence lab? is it appropriate for science teachers to run labs with this data at hand? Research studies have shown students master more science content at a deeper level with laboratory experiments and observations that closely mimic the scientific method. Science and math are two of the weakest subject for our nation as we compete in a world where the jobs are moving into those very areas. Here is a link to the NSTA (National Science Teachers Association) educational research studies with the data regarding student lab safety in relation to class sizes and the importance of laboratory experiences for students:
http://www.nsta.org/about/positions/liability.aspx
Excellent teachers are like top notch professionals in every field. They can get jobs relatively easily. Most of them evaluate if the school will allow them to teach to high standards, give them an environment that contributes to the maximum chance of success with students, and in addition allows them to give abundant time to their own children. If anyone knows the importance of a good education for their own children, it’s excellent teachers.
This is the reality of the job market anywhere for high quality employees. Why would you think it is different for teachers? While I applaud your ability to raise children and be an outstanding teacher, not every excellent teacher has that stamina. I’ve know quite a few excellent teachers who left their jobs to raise their children and then came back to the field. It did not make them less excellent teachers. They felt it made them better parents.
Please state your ideas for how you would attract and retain excellent teachers to the hundreds of low income public schools in Georgia that are having such difficulty ensuring students are achieving on grade level? Since teacher attrition is such a detriment to these students, how would you retain these excellent teachers in the regular education classroom for 15 or 20 years?
ScienceTeacher671
February 21st, 2012
7:12 pm
Dekalbite, excellent post.
Anonmom
February 21st, 2012
10:35 pm
Bama Girl — our DCSS Elementary School “entertained” our middle son similarly — in 1st-3rd grade he was the “monitor” for his diabetic friend — every day, same hour he and his friend would go to check his friend’s blood sugar levels; each year he was “assigned downwards” to help another child with math or reading for tutoring (even at his high-end private high school he was asked to tutor math as a sophomore when that’s usually just for juniors and seniors); Then there was an assistant principal who worked with some of the kids as “special projects” some hours during the week in 4th-6th grade and they did research work and built things –he was amazing with him and his friend. The built things from scratch and research everything that went into it. In the meantime, he learned 2 or 3 different languages (just cursory, as none were part of the curriculum). So they supplemented well — and they still had “discovery” pull out with a good teacher. Even so, he had 2 years with teachers who could not handle him — he butted heads with them. He began 1st grade reading and comprehending on a 5th grade level and finished in the same place — no progress made — zero – zip (my oldest did very well with this same teacher — it was a bust for the other child). I think I lost him as a reader that year… she had the whole class of 6 year olds listening to Potter … they were too young for it and it scared him. He butted heads again with a 5th grade teacher and he was very bored in her English/Language Arts class. He would take these opportunities to make things interesting for himself. He entertained himself and those around him. This is the child who just got the 800 on math on the SAT…. I’m not sure private elementary would have been better but it might have been. But, this was at a time of smaller class sizes under Gov. Barnes….
Anonmom
February 21st, 2012
10:36 pm
Ooops — special projects was 3rd-5th grade — 6th grade was a different school — really bad year for him… perpetual butting of heads (great math teacher though!).
ScienceTeacher671
February 23rd, 2012
6:10 am
@Group by Ability – she’ll get it! We used to spend a lot of commute time practicing multiplication tables.