Rep. Jones: Proposed constitutional amendment affirms true local control — parents
State Rep. Jan Jones
Among the most influential and dedicated supporters of charter schools is House Speaker Pro-Tempore Jan Jones of Milton, who represents District 46. She is the sponsor of the constitutional amendment that would resurrect the state’s ability to create charter schools, an ability lost in last year’s state Supreme Court decision.
She wrote this essay today to explain why she believes the amendment is vital.
By Jan Jones
Most people agree local school boards play a critical role in Georgia public education. Most people also agree, however, that local school boards should not have exclusive control over public education.
Businesses considering relocating to Georgia place a top priority on an overall educated workforce. Clearly, we have a state education brand to foster and protect in attracting jobs.
Our ability to do so was jeopardized in a controversial 4-3 Georgia Supreme Court decision last May striking down a 2008 state law.
The problem with the state supreme court’s decision is that it explicitly stated that school boards have exclusive control over general k-12 public education. The decision calls into question whether state government has any meaningful role, except, perhaps, for putting a check in the mail.
The broad court decision deviated sharply from the state’s historically significant role in public education, including funding half its costs, establishing graduation standards and providing a teacher pay scale.
Thanks primarily to these state policies, when adjusted for cost of living, Georgia ranks first nationally in teacher salary and benefits.
With that in mind, House Resolution 1162 would re-assert the state’s partnership role in public education through a constitutional amendment. The legislation says, “the General Assembly may…provide for the establishment of education policies for such public education.”
HR 1162 would clarify the Constitution in the way most people thought existed prior to the court’s action.
The headline-grabbing issue, though, is that the court decision also invalidated the state’s general ability to authorize public charter schools, a practice exercised prudently for over 10 years. Since 2008, only 12 state charter schools opened.
The legislation would allow existing charter schools approved and fully funded by the state to continue teaching students.
The state could also approve additional charter schools as do other states. Georgia would have another tool to give students learning opportunities, which sometimes cannot be offered within attendance lines.
For example, a technical college covering several counties, as is typically the case in rural Georgia, could partner with a charter school to offer vocational certification while students are still in high school.
Charter schools, in some instances, could place added focus on science and math, vocational or International Baccalaureate certification, or the arts. They could even offer a longer day and extra tutoring.
Parents, though, would choose whether their children attend optional public charter schools. If HR 1162 passes, the voters of the state can decide to put “local control” where it counts the most – with parents.
History has shown that charter schools are better performing and more apt to grow if school districts are not the sole authorizer allowed by law.
To find a middle ground, the Education Committee omitted from the resolution a narrow reference to charter school funding as lobbyists for school boards and superintendents requested. This allows the Legislature to reconsider a better method to fund charter schools.
HR 1162 recognizes public education policy has been and should be a shared effort by the state and school boards to deliver the best educational opportunities to students.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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123 comments Add your comment
Ed Advocate
February 7th, 2012
8:08 am
Another point to consider re: 1162 and Jones’ assertion that charter schools are in jeopardy is this–currently, both local boards of education and the state board of education can approve charter schools. The state board approved several charters last summer, considered several others since then, and has another charter lined up for approval later this spring. If the state can already approve charters that encounter resistance from local boards (and we should all remember that many charter petitions have been rejected by locals and the state b/c the petitions were poor and the petitioners had no business opening a school), then why does GA need HR 1162? Because it’s not about the charter approval, it’s about the money. Rep Jones says she took the funding mechanism to which ed orgs objected out of the current version of HR 1162, but she has yet to explain how she’s going to pay for state-approved charters while underfunding traditional public schools and the bulk of locally-approved charters.
Voice of Reason
February 7th, 2012
8:22 am
People that advocate this “movement of money” and allowing children to attend any school they want don’t take into account a few things:
1. What do we do when a prized school gets to capacity? Do those that live within its district suddenly get denied attendance to their neighborhood school?
2. What about those without children that pay education taxes? Do they have to just live with the fact they would have ZERO control of how THEIR tax dollars are allocated and spent? This is what you are proposing with a “money follows the child” rule. You are giving parents sole control of OTHER people’s tax dollars.
3. Do you not realize that society and culture are as much or more to blame for failing schools? Forcing those that do not value education and cause problems out of bad schools will just move them to OTHER schools and make them bad. Find a viable solution to fix bad schools instead of just shuffling the problem around.
Fled
February 7th, 2012
8:32 am
I just don’t “get” repukes. Anyone with any critical reading abilities at all realizes immediately that this so-called representative and those of her ilk are mere tools, unwitting or not, for putting public funds in the hands of for-profit corporate interests. If you want to get a close look at what such schools would be like, take a look at Mosaica, which is headquartered right there in Atlanta.
When the classroom becomes a profit center, who is dumb enough to believe that decisions will be made in the interests of the students? OK, I mean who is dumb enough other than repukes? Don’t think that this is about anything other than money, folks. Parents are being sold the idea that a charter school is just a private school, only with no tuition. Sorry, if you want a private school, you need to pay for a private school. The only other way is to have superior teaching skills yourself.
At the same time, I cannot defend the school system, as I know well it is rotten to the core, especially Fulton. What you need are schools that prepare students for the real-world challenges of the twenty-first century, but I don’t think that will happen in Georgia until the twenty-second century, especially not so long as republicans celebrate ignorance and hate learning.
Georgia teachers are the best-paid in the USA, Well, LMAO!
Teachers, it is never going to change. Had enough of this fraud yet, Beverly?
Give up. Throw in the towel. Flee.
Tony
February 7th, 2012
8:32 am
What lies beneath the surface of this bill and all other “school choice” legislation is the means to move money away from local schools. This means that these supporters are trying to make it legal for charter schools to receive some form of preferential treatment for funding. In a time when the state can not meet its commitment to public schools, it is disgusting that our leaders would also try to provide this kind of special treatment to a few schools.
Michael Moore
February 7th, 2012
8:39 am
Yesterday, in the news, a Pennsylvania school district filed suit against the state as the district is going bankrupt and can’t pay teacher salaries. The teachers (unionized) all voted to stay on the job. Initially, the court has ordered the state to give some money to the district but the money will run out in a couple of weeks. The big culprit is the charter school that the district has to pay for. I am not opposed to charter schools as experimental schools that districts can learn from and truly partner with. I do wish the research was more supportive of charter schools. However, forcing districts to have charters might bankrupt some Georgia counties too.
thomas
February 7th, 2012
8:45 am
So, what’s wrong with GA teachers’ pay is #1 in the country – if it is true. I don’t see anything wrong with that “fact.” Does she want GA teachers’s salary to be at the bottom? Why? Or 15th? Why? If you compare 50 states, someone is going to be #1 and someone will be #50. There is no way around it.
Voice of Reason
February 7th, 2012
9:02 am
Another thing to consider… Many people are growing weary of the state and federal government coming in and telling their local governments how to do things. I want LESS state and federal involvement… not MORE.
HS Public Teacher
February 7th, 2012
9:03 am
A few thoughts….
1. Why isn’t the school board representative of the parents and the community? They are elected officials, right? Shouldn’t we be electing the local representatives to make the best decisions for our children? And, if they are making the wrong decisions, we can not elect them next time or even start a campaign to oust them.
Why do we need another avenue other than the “good” or “right” school board?
2. For those continuing to spout the school choice/voucher option – please research this topic completely. Don’t just follow those that are in favor of it. Look at all sides. I beg you. The State of Florida jumped into this 100% a few years ago and has since been on a fast downward spiral. Does Georgia really want to follow in their footsteps?
3. Beware the hidden agenda of those wanting to change the status quo. I am not saying that status quo is right or is perfect. However, look to the motivation of those advocating this change. Most of them want the money (our tax dollars) to be diverted from public education to their pockets – and THAT is their motivation. I am only asking for you to become informed about it.
Rick in ATL
February 7th, 2012
9:06 am
Make me take ten parents at random from my neighborhood to form a Charter board. Give me no say in how they’re chosen. Make our new board adhere to higher financial and ethical standards than the desultory, mail-order-degreed municipal employees who run our neighborhood elementary school now. Give us less money to work with, and force us into a crappy facility. We’ll still outperform you by a factor of ten. Why? Because parents are working for their children, whereas APS employees are working for their Lexuses. : )
In many communities, you won’t be able to find ten parents who care and have the time and resources to do it. True enough. But that’s a separate problem, and cannot be used as an excuse to stop committed parents from taking on this very time-consuming and labor-intensive task if they want to do it.
Mary Elizabeth
February 7th, 2012
9:13 am
@ teacher and mom
“@Maureen – Perhaps the AJC should make an open records request into Rep. Jones’s political finances. I wonder how many lunches/dinners Students First, Gates Foundation, K12, Pearson etc. have been purchased on behalf of Rep. Jones.”
@Hey teacher
“Thanks to Mary Elizabeth for doing a little detective work — keep digging!”
———————————————————————
I do not understand how the AJC can do such an outstanding job of detective work in uncovering and exposing the cheating scandal of the APS, and yet let remain dormant and mute in the political connections that of some leaders in Georgia’s Legislature have to national movements to dismantle public “government” schools. One of our top leaders in Georgia’s Legislature sits on the national Board of Directors of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), which is said to be funded in part by the Koch Brothers, who have a very fervent ideological “anti-government” agenda for our nation, implemented in part through state legislatures.
Another member of ALEC from Georgia’s Legislature is a ranking member of Georgia’s House Appropriations Committee. Rep. Jones is also a member of Georgia’s House Appropriations Committee. Rep. Jones, from her biographical information, has no background experience in public education, other than as a parent, of course. Her background is in Marketing. I have heard her speak; she has a soft delivery but what she proposes is transformative. What will Georgia become “transformed” to, especially regarding public education? How much negative propaganda about public education is being circulated deliberately and by whom? What about sources from outside the state of Georgia? Is that not some possibility? Grover Norquist, for instance, met with top Legislators on Jan. 30th in Atlanta. National interests are at least possible here regarding charter schools, vouchers, taxes to religious organizations, etc. What will we be doing to Georgia’s public schools if this movement to transform “government” schools is not slowed down and looked into more closely?
I am paid by no one to “discover” what I discover. I am a private citizen who thinks for myself and who cares. I believe in public education. My father believed in public education. My father was a Vocational Director of Education who later became a City Manager in Georgia. He was a true public servant of the people, who did not get rich off of political connections. His father, my grandfather, had taught him to be an honest public servant. My father instilled those values in me. My father also belief in the greatness of this nation, and that one person can make a difference. I am my father’s daughter.
I believe in public education enough that I want to make it better for ALL of the children of Georgia. I do not want to dismantle it. Every American child has the right to a “free” public education of quality. That is why I have posted, without in monetary gain for myself, my educational knowledge on my personal blog on how to help children in Georgia succeed in public schools. I am a builder for public schools and for Georgia, like my father. I was not taught to tear down. My father taught me, as he said, to “bring light, not heat” into the world.
Where are you AJC? Why do you not do some detective work and find out why our educational process is becoming more and more politicized in Georgia, in part through this bandwagon interest in public charter schools which tomorrow can become private charter schools? Who else, if anyone, is behind this Constitutional Amendment (HR 1162) besides Rep. Jan Jones? And I am not referring to the other overt sponsors who are listed on the bill, HR 1162. Also, check out HR 425 which is in the House Judiciary today, which would allow public taxes to to go to religious institutions for education. Some say this is a first mvovement toward vouchers. Vouchers are due to be voted on in the Senate again soon, this session? Look at this snowball rapidly going down a hill in our Legislature, regarding the dismantlilng of public education. Why? Ask that question in depth. Why? and by Whom?
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/american-legislative-exchange
Connect the dots, AJC. Remember, it is the freedom of the press that keeps this nation free.
HS Public Teacher
February 7th, 2012
9:16 am
Regarding GA teacher pay….
Year ago, then Governor Roy Barnes decided that Georgia was losing too many good teachers to neighboring States. He increased teacher pay in Georgia to be slightly higher than South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee, and Florida.
Since then, teacher pay in Georgia has been stagnent. When the economy was good and everyone in the business world was making in the big bucks with large annual bonuses, Georgia teachers had no increase. In fact, with the republican politicans in Georgia, there were massive cuts to education during that time.
Since the downturn of the economy, Georgia teachers are not even seeing cost-of-living increases. Our “step pay” has been halted. In addition, most of us are seeing regular “furlough” days which really means that we work for NO PAY AT ALL. Last year, my school system gave us 7 furlough days. Does anyone else work for 7 days with no pay at all?
Please understand all facts before jumping to conclusions. I cannot believe that Georgia teachers are the “highest paid” in the nation without some funky manipulation of the facts and numbers. Especially considering that we have no real teacher union in Georgia to advocate for us.
Voice of Reason
February 7th, 2012
9:25 am
First of all, let me preface this with I’m not a teacher and I have no desire to be one. I also don’t run a school and have no desire to run one.
Rick,
If it were legal, I’d bet against you if…
You had to accept all the children that the local school does and you were subject to the same regulations that burden our local schools.
I’d bet you’d find you were about on an even par with your local school. This seems to be what a lot of the research about charter schools suggest.
I love how people assume that there aren’t teachers at their local schools care about children. The baseless accusations fly about “greedy employees” etc.
d
February 7th, 2012
10:00 am
GM says….”I vote for only one member on the APS board. That member cannot represent my interests because other board members can outvote my member, in effect, the APS board takes my money and I have [no] say so”
Yes, you do have a say so. That is why you elect a member to the board of education. If the other citizens around Atlanta have different values and elect members who will represent what they want, you were simply outvoted. That is how representative democracy works. You don’t always get your way. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I voted for Al Gore in 2000, John Kerry in 2004, and Bob Barr in 2008. I was outvoted and none of those candidates received one electoral vote from Georgia. Does that mean I had no say so? Absolutely not. I just was on the losing end of the vote. There is nothing saying that I can’t campaign for people who are not my representative. I’ve heard Paul Womack isn’t planning to run for reelection. I was looking forward to campaigning against him despite not living in his district. Nothing says you cannot convince your fellow Atlantans to vote for candidates that are more friendly towards your point of view.
Mary Elizabeth
February 7th, 2012
10:05 am
@ H S Teacher. 9:16 am
“Since the downturn of the economy, Georgia teachers are not even seeing cost-of-living increases. Our “step pay” has been halted. In addition, most of us are seeing regular “furlough” days which really means that we work for NO PAY AT ALL. Last year, my school system gave us 7 furlough days. Does anyone else work for 7 days with no pay at all?”
——————————————————————–
You must understand that what you have described is not simply because of a “downturn in the economy.” It is also part of a political ideological agenda, unfolding.
Business owner
February 7th, 2012
10:09 am
If she’s so worried about the state education brand, she might want to focus on HOPE. Keeping the brightest in state, without regard to ability to pay, attracts businesses and those employees willing to accept a transfer.
The charter movement is a play by the same group who brought us bundled mortgages, subprime lending and a broken economy. It is the dream of one political party, enacted by a second political party to do the will of corporations who fund their elections. Everyone has their hand out for corporate welfare and education is the next big thing.
Maureen Downey
February 7th, 2012
10:46 am
@To all, As one of our sharp posters noted, the No. 1 teacher pay ranking that Rep. Jones cites in her piece is from:
http://www.johnlocke.org/acrobat/spotlights/spotlight-367_teacherpay2009.
Maureen
HS Public Teacher
February 7th, 2012
10:56 am
Thanks Maureen!
If you read the article that Maureen provides, you can see that the true salary for Georgia teachers rank 16th in the nation. The only reason Georgia shows up as 1 is due to what they call ‘adjusted’ pay and could include things like suppliments for coaches, extra pay for assistant principals, and so on.
All I know is that I teach in Fulton and have over 10 years of experience and my pay is still not even up to what they call the “average teacher pay in Georgia”!!!
HS Public Teacher
February 7th, 2012
11:02 am
@Mary Elizabeth – Unfortunately, I do understand that part as well. And, I’m not happy about it!!! Thanks for the clarification.
Ed Johnson
February 7th, 2012
11:04 am
“One of our top leaders in Georgia’s Legislature sits on the national Board of Directors of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), which is said to be funded in part by the Koch Brothers, who have a very fervent ideological “anti-government” agenda for our nation, implemented in part through state legislatures.”
That would be Sen. Chip Rogers…
http://www.alec.org/about-alec/board-of-directors/
In addition, Rep. David Casas serves as ALEC’s Education Task Force Chair…
http://www.alec.org/task-forces/education/
Casas being a House Education Committee member…
http://www1.legis.ga.gov/legis/2011_12/house/bios/casasDavid.htm
Mary Elizabeth
February 7th, 2012
11:13 am
Here is a statement written on the website of the John Locke Foundation, the source of Rep. Jan Jones’ data regarding public school teachers’ pay and benefits.
———————————————————–
“JLF’s Vision
The John Locke Foundation envisions a North Carolina of responsible citizens, strong families, and successful communities committed to individual liberty and limited, constitutional government.”
————————————————————-
Let me highlight the words “limited. . .government.”
http://www.johnlocke.org/about/
HS Public Teacher
February 7th, 2012
11:18 am
@Rick in ATL -
From your post, it is clear that you are all for segregation. If you take the “concerned parents” apart and put their kids ANYWHERE apart, they will succeed. You will find no arguement from anyone about that.
However, there is this small tiny thing called the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and Federal Laws that kinda forbids that type of thing.
Public schools are required to take everyone and anyone. And, any institution that uses public money (our tax dollars) must play by the laws and rules.
To me, this is what makes people that are “pro choice” or “pro voucher” so very hypocritical. They don’t even realize that if the “bad parents” with the “bad kids” also have their little voucher in their hand, they can then go to your little slice of “heaven” that is segregated currently and INVADE!
Cannot you see that? These vouchers and choice are really not in your best interest at all.
The ONLY people that it would benefit are the education corporations that would then be able to make PROFITS from the public money (our tax dollars).
Mary Elizabeth
February 7th, 2012
11:44 am
@ Ed Johnson, 11:04 am
Thank you for the information in your post, of which the public should be aware. It should, also, be made public knowledge that Rep. Calvin Hill (R – Canton), who is Vice Chairman of Georgia’s House Appropriations Committee, is also a State Chairman from Georgia for the American Legislative Exchange Council, i.e. ALEC. (See the link below.)
Also, it should be made public knowledge that Rep. David Casas, whom you mention in your 11:04 am post as being on ALEC’s Education Task Force, is not only a member of Georgia’s House Education Committee, he is, in fact, the Vice Chairman of Georgia’s House Education Committee, and he is, also, a member of Georgia’s House Appropriations Committee.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=ALEC_State_Chairmen
Hey Teacher
February 7th, 2012
11:49 am
The salary report from John Locke is about as reliable as using evidence that claims “smoking is good for you” from R. J. Reynolds.
Jerry Eads
February 7th, 2012
11:52 am
Too bad her facts are wrong. FACT – from many, many studies: charter schools have no advantage whatsoever over public schools – in FACT, slightly more of them are worse, once you factor out the FACT that charter schools cherry pick (on the whole) – they only look better because they take the better students from the public schools which, of course, makes the regular publics look even worse, because all we do is look at test scores or, in the case of Georgia, pass rates on minimum competency tests. Hm-m-m – if the reason for charters is to get rid of regulations, perhaps then the way to improve publics is to simply abolish the regulations – -
Hm. State control over local governments. An interesting position for a “conservative” – - – -. Wonder what’s next?
Shar
February 7th, 2012
11:52 am
Had I turned in a high school essay as deeply flawed as Rep. Jones’ this morning, I would have gotten it back with red marks all over it and a big fat ‘F’ at the top.
She fails to identify the specific problem that her Resolution is supposed to address, and proceeds to skate over how the Resolution would do so. The bases given for her statement are, “Most people agree…”, “most people also agree..”, “most people thought…”, “history shows..” Not a single one of those assertions is factually supported — mostly because not a single one is true. “Most people” (and here I wonder if she was limiting herself to Georgians, or to the pool of people she knows through Republican party events or those at ALEC?) do not think about the role of local or state education boards at all, and those who do – as evidenced nearly daily on this blog – are deeply conflicted over the issue. If “most people” think about the clarity of Georgia’s Constitutional provisions regarding education, the primary focus seems to be on the first two sentences of Article 8, which lays out the state’s educational requirements:
“The provision of an adequate public education for the citizens shall be a primary obligation of the State of Georgia. Public education for the citizens prior to the college or postsecondary level shall be free and shall be provided for by taxation.”
Rep. Jones has spent her time in office currying favor with her anti-public school colleagues, and has done her level best to scrape the bottom of “adequate”, to the consternation of many, if not “most”, Georgians.
Her attention, it seems, has now turned to the “taxation” provision, and particularly that pesky mandate in Section 6, “School tax funds {previously defined as local property taxes} shall be expended only for the support and maintenance of public schools, public vocational-technical schools, public education, and activities necessary or incidental thereto, including school lunch purposes.” It tends to get in the way of the Legislature grabbing a share of the property tax pot.
There is absolutely nothing, not a single proposal or need, mentioned in her essay that is not currently addressable under the current system. However, a big hole opens up when she justifies further state intrusion with, “Clearly, we have a state education brand to foster and protect in attracting jobs.”
There is no such mandate in the Constitution, and “most people” – Georgia taxpayers and parents – would say that they pay taxes to educate students, not “foster a state brand.” Rep. Jones’ willingness to disregard the well being of Georgia’s students and the control over local schools exercised by local voters and parents to advance the cause of state marketing is truly breathtaking. Her callousness is matched only by her exposed mercenary motivations.
I am no fan of the monopoly that the local districts fiercely defend in their resistance to approve charters. APS categorically refused to approve any at all for years, primarily because they were afraid that a charter might outperform their basic curriculum and so threaten their hegemony over moneymaking activities like book and other program adoption, or call into doubt their system of hiring and promotion, which is crucial to maintaining their self-serving bureaucracy. I believe that meaningful market competition should be introduced, even required, within local schools as a means of forcing out poor performers, driving innovation and improving actual education delivery.
Rep. Jones’ Resolution doesn’t do any of those things. Instead, it opens the door to two cherished goals of Georgia’s Republican Party and their financial patrons: It will allow the substance of a school’s curriculum, its message, to be driven by the state regardless of the wishes and beliefs of local parents and taxpayers, and it will permit the Legislature to finally get its hands on a preliminary slice of the property taxes that the Constitution has kept so frustratingly out of their reach.
If this Resolution is passed, look for out of town or out of state groups to move in and use local public funds to set up schools with religious-based curricula, or to use the kind of biased and frankly false teaching materials that Texas keeps trying to adopt, emphasizing certain aspects of American history, literature and scientific doctrines while suppressing anything “off message”. If parents or taxpayers complain, Jones and her allies can override them without fear of electoral rebuke. Those schools will buy from state-approved vendors, use state-approved contractors and state-approved administration and faculty, all of whom will be generous donors to the Republican Party and who will be carefully exempt from tiresome requirements like competitive bidding.
And there is no “history” that tells us “charter schools are better performing and more apt to grow if school districts are not the sole authorizer allowed by law.” In fact, and very disappointingly, charter schools per se have not been found to perform better than traditional public schools. Rep. Jones does not quote a source for this claim as it is simply untrue.
Her essay is a combination of smoke and mirrors and distraction, carefully avoiding identifying either a problem or solution but instead attempting to mislead and cover the real purpose behind her efforts – to snatch locally-controlled money for the benefit of her politicized message and “the people” who have bought her allegiance.
North Fulton Parent
February 7th, 2012
11:56 am
Shame on Jan Jones for sponsoring this constitutional amendment. Public schools were good enough for her when her children were enrolled in Fulton County Schools. I understand that one of her children worked all the way through AP Calculus BC and Georgia Tech math in a PUBLIC north Fulton high school. But now she’s selling her influence to national groups and pandering to Christian conservatives.
The language of this resolution is so broad (see below) that it would allow money to be diverted to private institutions. And here’s my problem with that…. the playing field isn’t level. Private schools are not required to:
1. Accept all students — non-English speakers, special ed, behavioral problems
2. Publish their nationally normed test scores — SATs, ACTs, AP participation, AP results, ITBS
3. Meet the mandates of No Child Left Behind
Jan knows what I know…. the public schools in north Fulton (where I live so I can’t speak for other areas) are better and more rigorous than the private schools in north Fulton. That’s why she sent her kids to public schools. That’s why I send my kids to public schools.
I’m ashamed of Mrs. ones for sponsoring and promoting legislation that would threaten a very competitive and rigorous school system.
Take a look at these two sickening pieces of legislation and decide for yourself:
http://www.ciclt.net/sn/leg/l_detail.aspx?ClientCode=gapta&L_State=ga&L_Session=2011-2012&L_ID=457061
This one was sponsored by other legislators, but again threatens funding of public schools:
http://www.ciclt.net/sn/leg/l_detail.aspx?ClientCode=gapta&L_State=ga&L_Session=2011-2012&L_ID=402849
Just leave the funding for my kids’ schools alone. They are doing just fine without you!!!
WAR
February 7th, 2012
12:04 pm
charter schools, public schools, home schools are all the same if there are no supplies or support for teachers and students.
C Jae of EAV
February 7th, 2012
12:19 pm
Alot of good dialogue and save Rep Jones obvious mis-statements largely absent of wild mis-characterizations now for round 1 of my rebuttals:
@ Winnie 02/06/12 20:24pm – What you pose is truly the million dollar question. I’ve asked repeatedly in several blog threads why allowing locally collected tax receipts to follow a child as they move from one public institution to another within the same geographic area where the local taxes are collected is such a harmful act, yet I’ve not received one cogent rebuttal.
@Ed Johnson 02/06/12 20:39pm – All of those adjectives you describe fit the status quo. Local districts manifest all of those things toward any entity public or private that attempts to form a collaborative partnership unless said partnership has a check associated with it. So I guess, I’m trying to understand your position. Is it for us to accept more of the same form the “edu-crats” who have failed repeatedly over the last 10 years + ? Are we do take some action to shift the status quo or simply pray they will come to their senses?
@FollowTheMoney – Everything you’ve asked for a pre-requisite for consideration of a state-commission granting public charters is available now for your examination. What’s interesting is that you request a guarantee’s that qualify the investment of tax dollars in a public charter institution and that they will be “fired” (i.e. closed) for failing to meet its objectives, yet the traditional public institutions under the control of local boards across the state have failed, continue to fail & proceed with woeful mis-management of resources. Where is the outcry, where is the accountability. When you look at many of these local boards you find a small number of people entrenched in positions they have held for decades, to the point where they have become quite dismissive of the prevailing public demand. I accept that everything you mentioned makes sense and should be factors of consideration in the debate, I cringe in so much that you and others who share your position don’t seem inclined to hold local boards and the schools under their jurisdiction to the same standard. If that were the case the whole debate on the table now would be a mute point for discussion.
C Jae of EAV
February 7th, 2012
12:19 pm
Round 2 of rebuttal comments:
@ScienceTeacher671 02/07/12 05:59am – Current state law allows you in partnership with the parents of the students you serve to collaborate and petition to convert to the public charter designation. If your feeling is that the allowance to side-step certain provision of public education law/regulation in the state will give you the advantage you need to push forward with a more progressive approach, then bow up, develop the coalition and make it happen. I tend to agree that these allowances may provide a platform to manifest greater change. Obviously, Fulton County (one of the largest local districts in the state) sees something of value in the position as they are seriously considering converting the whole district to the charter designation, which heretofore has only been done by a few very small local districts that are no more than the equalivant to one high school cluster.
@Ed Advocate 02/07/12 08:08 am – What Rep Jan Jones did was quite crafty. She stripped her bill of the funding provision and said provision was simply dropped into another bill. It was the old bait and switch. I agree with you that this whole circumstances has little to do with who authorizes a public charter as much as it centers around who controls the pool of public education funds (state, local & federal) that flow down presumably to finance a child citizen’s public education. If the dollars are raised to educate child X in local district Y, then what does it matter what public school child X attends within the geographical boundary of local district Y? Answer, nothing as long as the cabal of local district “edu-crats” continue to manage & control the money.
C Jae of EAV
February 7th, 2012
12:24 pm
Voice of Reason 02/07/12 08:22am – Your question #2 as raised is a mute point. If we change the discussion from public education to some other aspect of local or state government funding by tax dollars your basic argument remains the same and the degree of CONTROL allowed to any one tax payer to direct how dollars are expended remains the same (virtually zero). Thus in my view this argument falls flat on its face when you attempt to focus it exclusively on conversation around public education policy. Unless of course the position you advocate is that only the tax reciepts from families with children the public education system go to fund K-12 public education. At which point the whole conversation shifts.
As for your question #1 the same would happen as happens today. Either local board or public charter board would evaluate the population trend and decide how best to manifest facilities changes to accommodate the growing need. If it requires additional funding that part of the problem will have to be sufficiently solved for.
As for your question/observation #3, the only difficulty I have with the argument is that it seems to come from the position that what’s suggested isn’t happening or hasn’t been attempted. Many have grown weary of the fight for reform in their local districts and are at this stage and believe that only by altering the landscape from a public policy perspective can the desired change be made manifest.
Mary Elizabeth
February 7th, 2012
1:02 pm
@Shar, 11:52 am
“If this Resolution (HR 1162) is passed, look for out of town or out of state groups to move in and use local public funds to set up schools with religious-based curricula, or to use the kind of biased and frankly false teaching materials that Texas keeps trying to adopt, emphasizing certain aspects of American history, literature and scientific doctrines while suppressing anything ‘off message’. If parents or taxpayers complain, Jones and her allies can override them without fear of electoral rebuke. Those schools will buy from state-approved vendors, use state-approved contractors and state-approved administration and faculty, all of whom will be generous donors to the Republican Party and who will be carefully exempt from tiresome requirements like competitive bidding.”
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Thank you for your very astute post. Moreover, I compliment you for highlighting the cursory (to be generous) manner in which Rep. Jones’ article appears to have written.
The paragraph above – which I have lifted from your post – explains why professional educators must be in charge of curriculum and public education for the state of Georgia instead of relinquishing that responsibility and power to parents and politicians. Georgians must be wary of giving too much educational power to isolated charter schools, which may have their own ideological agendas to uphold. We must keep education as free from politics as possible. This is precisely why Thomas Jefferson was such a strong proponent of public education. He believed that an educated populace would recognize propaganda. Believing propaganda never enlightens thinking. Jefferson, above all, valued enlightened thinking. It is quite ironic that some organizations, which have adopted Jefferson as their named mentor, do not reveal Jefferson’s abhorrence to private, business models controlling government. (See my following post.)
Georgia’s statewide curriculum standards have been praised nationally. We must, now, be about the business of improving our public schools so that all of our students are able to meet success while they advance on Georgia’s excellent curriculum continuum. Attempting to dismantling public education into many small charter schools, many of which may not have educational knowledge of curriculum continuums nor of child development, is a diversion from what we must be about as citizens in Georgia. What we must be about is supporting our public schools and helping to improve them, not to dismantle them. I do not disapprove of charter schools per se, but this overwhelming charter school movement and “bandwagon” mentality, even among politicians, in Georgia is neither prudent nor wise.
Mary Elizabeth
February 7th, 2012
1:13 pm
These are Thomas Jefferson’s words on the value of public education to society, from his “Notes on Virginia” as written in Saul Padover book, “Jefferson” page 109:
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“Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves there are its only safe depositories. And to render even them safe, their minds must be improved to a certain degree. . . . And amendment of our consitution (Virginia’s) must here come in aid of the public education. The influence over government must be shared among all the people. If every individual. . .participates of the ultlimate authority, the government will be safe.”
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Also, regarding Jefferson’s views on capitalism and men of business, the following words are from Saul Padover’s book, “Jefferson,” page 194:
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“The incipient American capitalism, particularly of the Massachusetts and New York variety, filled Jefferson with dismay. The men of business were not interested in liberty or equality. They were interested in profits. What they wanted was the help of the Government in making money. That implied the control of the state. It also meant a reluctance to share political power with others, particularly with those who did not enjoy the blessings of property. And though the country was still overwhelmingly rural, the business interests, led by Hamilton, were getting what they wanted.”
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I hardly think Jefferson would have been in favor of private, “for-profit’ schools. See below, also.
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From Padover’s book, p. 212:
“Hamilton. . .was deliberately creating a privileged class of financiers and rentiers. Members of Congress and of the Administration, encouraged by Hamilton, were being tempted to make money in stocks and in speculation. That put an end to their independence. Such behavior on the part of representatives of the people shocked Jefferson. When he was approached with a proposition to make money in a financial enterprise, he (Jefferson) replied:
‘When I first entered on the stage of public life (now twenty-four years ago), I came to a resolution never to engage while in public office in any kind of enterprise for the improvement of my fortune, nor to wear any other character than of a farmer. I have never departed from it in a single instance; and I have in multiplied instances found myself happy in being able to decide and to act as a public servant, clear of all interest, in the multiform questions that have arisen, wherein I have seen others embarrassed and biased by having got themselves into a more interested situation. Thus I have thought myself richer in contentment than I should have been with any increase of fortune.’
“Jefferson saw no stability and no security in any other government but a democratic republic, where speculators and financiers did not rule. There was thus no common line on which both he and Hamilton could walk.”
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It should be noted that Thomas Jefferson lost money while serving his country, for most of his life. The wages he was paid, for his public service to America, were low, and he had to leave the care of his farm while serving our nation – for years in France – but also in being away from Monticello while serving this nation as its Secretary-of-State, Vice-President, and two terms as its President.
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Voice of Reason
February 7th, 2012
1:36 pm
C Jae of EAV:
Your argument that I virtually have zero control of most of my tax dollars now does not justify your argument to take what little control that I have away. I don’t like the fact that I don’t have more control of my tax dollars now. I’m certainly not going to willingly cede any more control.
I know for a fact that my local board of education has their home phone numbers prominently displayed on my county’s school website. I can call each of them up and personally have a discussion about where and how my tax dollars are spent.
While I certainly will admit that I don’t have a lot of control over them, at least my LOCAL representation is a lot easier to communicate with. Furthermore, if I don’t like their decision, I can pick a new candidate come election time.
The further up the chain the money goes, the less they care what people think. I want the control of MY tax dollars controlled locally by representatives that I help elect.
My public school system may not be perfect… but I think they can do a lot better creating a system based on what my community needs as opposed to a higher level of government.
Jeff in Roswell
February 7th, 2012
1:48 pm
@echo, from last night. The current Charter school that my child attends has a lottery system. They are barred from “choosing” who will attend. If there is an opening in the middle of the school year, it’s first come first serve but during the enrollment period it’s lottery and then waiting list. There was no testing of my child to determine entrance or worthiness. One stipulation is holding residency in Fulton County. The parents that are sending their children to this particular school are “choosing” to do so because of the style of teaching, the interaction with the board and the agreeance with the charter. Most everything is transparent and we receive daily emails detailing what is going on at the school. The test scores at the school are slightly better than most in our area. For us, it wasn’t the test scores that swayed us but the dedication the school has to the students. Students are learning beyond what is covered on the standardized tests AND they are doing so with less $$ per student. That’s why we’re happy.
Parents need to have choices. I was a huge advocate of neighborhood schools but we found we needed something different. Charter schools can provide that. I’m not sure what will happen with the possiblity of a mass charter system but I can tell you that our current BOE does not serve all. With districts choosing just one board member – that does not bode well.
d
February 7th, 2012
1:58 pm
Jeff – Your argument is actually part of why we do not need this amendment…. your child is in a charter school already. Why do we need the state coming in and taking money from local districts to create more? The ruling last year shut down 8 schools. Just 8. There are over 100 charters that are operating just fine without regard to that ruling. If you have a problem with a board of education voting against a charter you believe is worth while – do the democratic thing and vote those members out in favor of people who will support a charter. I did that for Dr. McClure over the Ivy Prep deal. I may have lost, but I exercised my rights as an American to say if you don’t do what I want, I don’t have to give you my support.
Jeff in Roswell
February 7th, 2012
2:06 pm
Good points d. I have to come to see that it doesn’t need to be all or nothing. Why can’t we have the mixture as we do now?
With regards to voting out our representatives on our boards – I agree with you. The problem that I have is that I want instant gratification! Ha! How long do these people hold their elected office? Sometimes the damage is done and when you have a child exposed to the repercussions of a boards decision you want something done immediately – not years down the road.
Larry Major
February 7th, 2012
3:58 pm
Jeff and d, the situation you are discussing is exactly why I think nothing should change. As soon as Ivy Prep received approval from the state, Nina Gilbert could have requested a referendum on local funding. Had we approved it, the BOE’s denial would have been effectively nullified without waiting for any board member’s reelection and Ivy Prep would have had full local funding from day one. I think this is one of the best checks the public could ever have in a democracy.
The problem, as I see it, is that Nina Gilbert didn’t bother to ask us. She waited out the first year, then re-filed as a Commission Charter School and took our money without asking.
The deleted “narrow reference to charter school funding” Rep. Jones mentioned was actually what would remove our right to vote on local funding and place it in the hands of an unelected board.
C Jae of EAV
February 7th, 2012
4:03 pm
It would seem most cannot seperate the issue of who has ability to authorize public charter institutions to operate from the question of how they are funding (although we should regonize they are being addressed in two seperate bill within the legislature, which is crafty approach but I digress)
Therefore, on the funding question again I ask if a public charter is located in district as and educating kids within district A, then why is it so horrible or outragous to expect that equal amount of local tax receipts allocated to educate that child in a traditional public institution be allocated to educated that child in the public charter institution.
I mean really, I stuggling for someone to answer that question plainly and not veer off into the land of esoteric discussing other things not german to my question. What is it that I’m failing to take account for ?? Help please.
Voice of Reason
February 7th, 2012
4:59 pm
C Jae of EAV:
Your question has been answered. You just have chosen to ignore or dismiss it. Whether you like it or not, I do have some control and there is local accountability on how my money is spent by a local BoE. I don’t with a charter school regardless of its location. As a taxpayer and voter, this is unacceptable to me.
North Fulton Parent
February 7th, 2012
5:07 pm
To C Jae of EAV,
To your question, “why is it so horrible or outragous to expect that equal amount of local tax receipts allocated to educate that child in a traditional public institution be allocated to educated that child in the public charter institution?” there are two answers. First, the local school board, elected by citizens in the area would have no oversight over the types of issue that torpedo charter schools…. funding, administration, land use, etc…. And second, please read the amendment. The language is so broad it could be argued that it allows local tax dollars to be diverted to local PRIVATE schools. Private schools are not beholden to citizens in any way. I have no problem with parents who want to send their kids to private schools, but they must pay for it themselves. Not with my tax money!
MAY
February 7th, 2012
5:15 pm
It’s very frustrating for me to come back to these discussions about charter schools only to hear the same incorrect information. Even if you the hate them, please stop saying they can pick and choose their students. That’s not correct. They also can’t grow tired of a disruptive student and just kick him out. Most charter schools use the same code of discipline as the district they reside in. The difference? They really enforce it. That’s it.
Ed Johnson
February 7th, 2012
5:44 pm
@CJ at EAV 02/07/2012 12:19 pm
Although my post you call out has the timestamp February 6, 2012 8:39 pm (20:39), I actually posted it in response to @Charter Parent’s post that has the timestamp February 6, 2012 8:42 pm (20:42). I have no idea why my post has the earlier timestamp. Maybe @Maureen can explain it.
Now, about “status quo.” Slinging that expression around phases me not at all. In fact, I wear it as a red badge of courage, especially given that the Atlanta Board of Education soon must choose to operate Atlanta Public Schools as an IE2 district, Charter System district, or Status Quo district. There is but one moral and ethical choice the ABE can make: Status Quo.
Let’s say that gain: There is but one moral and ethical choice the Atlanta Board of Education can make, and that is Status Quo. STATUS QUO! STATUS QUO! STATUS QUO!
Get the picture?
ScienceTeacher671
February 7th, 2012
7:08 pm
@Misty Fyed 7:55 a.m. School Choice is where we need to go. Every student is given X amount of dollars to cover education costs. They simply tell the State where to send the check. All students will have the same opportunity to attend any successful school; not just those selected by politicians to be eligible for a charter school.
The problem with that is that some children cost more than average to educate. What’s going to happen to them when their check won’t cover the tuition they need?
Rural lawmakers: Charter school amendment is Atlanta battle. We don’t want to get caught in crossfire. | Get Schooled
February 7th, 2012
8:20 pm
[...] While leading Atlanta area Republicans are supporting the amendment to allow the state to create charter schools and fund them, rural lawmakers worry that their already struggling schools will pay a price. Of course, there may be pressure exerted to get these rural GOP legislators to fall in line on this issue. We may see tomorrow. [...]
ScienceTeacher671
February 7th, 2012
8:34 pm
@C Jae of EAV: You missed my point entirely. It is the view of Rep. Jones and others that charters can do a better job because they are free of government regulations.
If regulations are the problem, they should free all schools.
DH
February 7th, 2012
9:06 pm
There has been a lot of rhetoric slung today.
I am a charter school parent. I had my children in private preschool, then in their neighborhood schools. I quickly noticed in the neighborhood schools that although I was invited to share comments about my child’s learning style, that when I actually did, teachers’ eyes glazed over. I knew exactly why that was: I didn’t sign their paychecks. Those paychecks came from an oligopoly based down in south Atlanta. I can vote for only one-seventh of the governing board of this oligopoly.
In the charter school my children now attend, the teachers solicit my comments with intent. They understand that I have an easily available and free alternative, and that they must meet my expectations and educate my children to my standards or I will leave. I can elect twice the representation that I can elect to the county school board, but unlike the county school board, my charter school board puts the education and welfare of my children first.
When my duly elected state representatives want to support that choice for me, I say, “Right on!” I know I should attempt to debate the issue on the principle, as many of you have tried to do, and I appreciate that, but what I know is that there is a need for this legislation, based upon abuses of power at the local levels. There has to be recourse, and I, like Jeff in Roswell, want immediate gratification. To paraphrase Jerry Clower, I will give the legislature its due for attempting to “shoot up here amongst us, because one of us has got to get some relief!” Thank you to Mrs. Jones and to each and every legislator who votes in favor of HR 1162.
3schoolkids
February 7th, 2012
9:23 pm
To MAY: You are not 100% correct, if a Charter student is found to need services (special needs, behavioral disability) that the Charter school says it cannot provide due to cost or availability of those services, they can petition the local board to take that student out and place them in an appropriate local school program. It happens often in Fulton County. Also, I have a problem with believing it is just coincidence that 34% of FSAMS population is gifted. Just my opinion, but I think that in that instance it would be statistically improbable given the lottery method of admission.
To Mary Elizabeth: Thank you for being so informed. We are already paying for private school tuition at religiously affilitiated schools with the Special Needs Scholarship-check out the list of schools on the state approved list (some of which will tell you on their website that they don’t provide any services for special needs students). Several of these schools and also Georgia Cyber Academy as well utilize K12, Inc.’s curriculum, which at this time does not match up with Georgia’s grade curriculum standards. K12, Inc. is currently under investigation by several law firms for alleged fraud (possible false information in forward looking statements for investors in relation to inflated test scores, student success and student and teacher retention).
I agree with ScienceTeacher671, if regulations are the problem, they should free all schools. I can think of a lot of ways my kids schools could improve if they had blanket waivers.
ScienceTeacher671
February 7th, 2012
9:30 pm
DH, pray tell what is “your child’s learning style” and how does it differ from that of other children?
And do your really think that the “regular” public school teachers gave your short shrift because you “didn’t sign their paychecks”?
I’m really glad that your child’s charter school gives you the VIP treatment you so obviously deserve.
Jeff in Roswell
February 7th, 2012
9:54 pm
ScienceTeacher671 – why the mocking?
If you have two plates, one with Hamburger Helper and one with Filet Mignon and Lobster… which one are you going to choose?
If it’s put right in front of your face, you’re going for QUALITY.
3schoolkids
February 7th, 2012
9:55 pm
I can tell you from volunteering in several schools at the elementary, middle and high school level that I have met many parents that I would never want to have any real influence over the governing of a school. These are often the same parents that find a “better fit” for their child at a charter school. Then several months later you will see them in the counseling office, re-enrolling their student because the “better fit” didn’t work out. Sadly, it is the student that suffers. What is wrong with implementing measures that have PROVEN successful at a charter school in the local district school rather than continuing to open new charters?