House ed passes charter school amendment. But what does it actually do?

Clearly, if state law already allows for the state to choose to approve, and thus fund, a charter school when local board disapproves, then the school should have funding from the state- independent funding that will not circumvent local decisions. The language seems vague and I worry about the “withholding” of funds that would otherwise go to local systems. It could make budgeting a nightmare for systems that end up with charters they don’t approve.

Charter schools can be a good alternative, but I think it’s imperative that the relationship with local public systems be a good one. This really seems like a step towards privatizing public education or at the very least forcing local systems to fully fund themselves- which would shut most down entirely..

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Another example of the “local control” of education that everyone seems to be so big on, huh?
NCLB, RTTT, CCSS… Local, indeed.

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“If the House and Senate approve this constitutional amendment by the necessary margins, the question may be one of the most important facing voters in November. It is likely many of them will not understand the full implications of what’s being sought. And it won’t be because they can’t read. It will be because they can’t read between the lines.”
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This statement is very true, and I thank Maureen Downey for writing it. I was present at the House Education Committee meeting today. I heard all of the discussion, and I took note of the vote.

I want to thank Representative Brian Thomas (D – Lilburn) for pursuing much needed, in-depth discussion about what HR 1162 the might mean to education in Georgia from a long-ranged perspective, and, also, for asking the simple question as to whether intent, ultimately, is to alter our present public school delivery through charter schools. His were vital questions that needed to be asked. Thank you, Rep. Thomas, for your impacting wisdom, as well as your impressive courage, in asking those questions, among other points of discussion you made.

I, also, want to thank Representative Rashad Taylor (D – Atlanta) who did an outstanding job in proposing two very important amendments to HR 1162, even with limited support. He pressed on, with good will toward all. At least, Rep. Taylor placed the two amendments on public record, and votes were recorded, accordingly. His first amendment would have removed the words “or local” (in that local school systems already have the right to establish charter schools). He wanted clarity in the language of the bill so that the public might fully understand the bill’s intent. His amendment stated for HR1162 to read “state” (only), and not “state or local” (right to establish charter schools). Again, local schools systems already have the right to establish charter schools, he said, and the heart of the issue is also to give the state jurisdiction regarding establishment of charter schools. Seven members voted for Rep. Taylor’s amendment, and the remaining committee members did not support it. There are 27 members on the Committee. A rough sight count informed me that at least 25 to 26 members were present. Perhaps all were.

The second amendment Rep. Taylor proposed would insure that local funds remain local. Only 4 members voted for that amendment.

HR 1162 passed by a vote of 15 for and 6 against. Some members did not vote, or were not in attendance.

Rep. Kathy Ashe (D – Atlanta) stated publicly that the process regarding charter schools may need to slow down. She cautioned all to let the “ink dry” so that reflection about what is happening regarding charter schools could be well-measured, long-ranged. (paraphrased)

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Kelly, you can’t guarantee anything except that you don’t have any facts to back up your claims. Charter schools don’t perform any better than regular schools (see the Sanford study) and there is no evidence that districts with charter schools eventually perform better because of competition. Indeed, if Florida is an indication, all schools begins to perform worse because public dollars are not wisely spent by unelected charter schools boards and everyone eventually is harmed…period. Charter schools need to be closely regulated, have a great deal of oversight, be held to financial standards (not just an audit once a year), and should be held to higher standards than regular schools because they have no elected oversight. Our state politicians are not capable of doing that (see the failure of the Commission schools) and the GADOE is not staffed to do that (see Peachtree Hope). We are going to be overrun by charter companies who will laugh all the way to the bank (read Mosaica or SABIS) or mismanaged incompetents who can’t handle the challenges, get into debt and lawsuits and then expect the taxpayer to pay for it (read FSA). That lack of oversight might be okay for Freddie Mac or Solyndra, but it isn’t a solution for the students of Georgia. We need to focus resources on students, not scatter them to the hype-driven, un-accountable winds of charter schools who have politicians in their back pockets. Best way to fix education? Get rid of the US DOE, allow the GADOE to go to a two year budget cycle and prevent the golden dome from playing political football with our students every January. The politicians need to get out of the way and let schools, elected and communities get back to the job of teaching our youth!

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should have been elected citizens and communities get back to the job…

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Tim Callahan hit the nail on the head. To paint this a little more clearly, it isn’t the big bad local school board these people want to circumvent – it is their neighbors. To see exactly how they operate, you need only look at Ivy Prep’s track record.

When Ivy Prep was approved as a State Special Charter School, Nina Gilbert could have requested a referendum on local funding and, if Gwinnett voters approved, Ivy Prep would have been fully funded from day one. But Nina Gilbert didn’t ask us, did she?

Instead, she re-filed Ivy Prep as a Commission Charter School. Just like HR 1162, the Commission wasn’t required to follow the local funding formula in O.C.G.A. § 20-2-2068.1, and they didn’t. The Commission gave Ivy Prep over $300,000 more than it would have received had we approved full local funding – and this money was deducted directly from the state QBE funding earned by kids enrolled in GCPS schools. Circumventing the will of voters has rewarded Nina Gilbert handsomely.

Now that the State Supreme Court pulled Ivy Prep’s hand out of our pocket, Nina Gilbert and her supporters are trying to change our constitution so we can’t stop them.

Even if you are willing to let an unelected board make decisions you should be making, you could at least make sure your own children’s education funding isn’t ripped away from them by some political appointee.

Contact your state legislators and tell them to kill this bill.

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Followthemoney is right about the boards of charters. In the end, there is no oversight for those boards as in publicly elected boards, so they will likely, over time, make some of the same budgetary mistakes or worse. Private schools often have to deal with less than stellar boards controlling them. A good charter school can be a very productive alternative for a struggling school system, but there isn’t enough data that I’ve seen to track their performance over more than just a few years.

Another, and perhaps as important issue is this: if charters become the “thing” to fix education, and we eventually have money following kids via vouchers, how is that going to really change anything? We’re still talking about the same pool of kids from the same homes and families. Some are great, some are average, and some are dysfunctional. How will charter schools, vouchers, and privatizing education in the state improve that? Will we just shut out the kids who can’t or won’t measure up?

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For once, I agree with Good Mother. The state needs to have more power to act when things go terribly wrong like they have in DeKalb and Atlanta. In addition, other states have taken over school systems when the academic outcomes are horrible.

I am not sure that the state DOE could do a better job, but I sure as h*ll know it couldn’t be worse.

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Speak the truth General Assembly. You want a way to bring back schools for white (or mostly white kids) and charter schools are the best you can do. I am surprised no one in the media has latched onto charter schools as a code word for segregated schools for whites. Or am I missing something?

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Sorry, “Race.” We just want better schools. The municipal employees who deliver public education to us now (and do no better a job than the somnolent folks at DMV) will only get a clue when faced with extinction–and steadily, that is where we’re headed (thank god). Parental control and school choice–it’s the way the wind is blowing, and the only thing howling louder is the screeching liberals who see their cheese being moved.

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@Rick in ATL: I agree 100% with your comments. I congratulate Jan Jones on this constitutional amendment.

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Race “You want a way to bring back schools for white (or mostly white kids) and charter schools are the best you can do.”

How is that possible? Charter schools are public schools with the same laws. No one can be denied because of their race or their income.

Please explain why you believe the way you do. How can what you say be true? Please use your best argumetn with some examples or facts.

Thanks,
GM

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@Maxine: I have been trying to “work” on my local school system for 8 years. The Educrats are stuck in their ways. It took a charter opening for ANYTHING to be done here. It is a shame.

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Maxine, you ask an honest question “I don’t consider Charter schools to be a panacea for the all of the problems associated with the public school system. Why not work on improving the current system?”

I have an honest answer for you. Working on improving the current system does work in many cases. Look at the improvements at Mary Lin elementary. Attendance and confidence was so low at that school they almost closed it but now it is a thriving, successful, school. An abundance of hard-working parents and an honest principal have turned that school around. The physical structure is nothing to brag about but the quality of the education in that school is one to be proud of and that is why it is overcrowded.

You see, where a public school is successful, there isn’t a clamor for a charter school.

But other communities don’t have the same situation and that is why communities like the East Lake community have charters schools such as Drew charter school. It is a remedy where the local school board has failed to provide a viable public school and the community created a working alternative.

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ROn F, you said it perfectly ” I worry about the “withholding” of funds that would otherwise go to local systems. It could make budgeting a nightmare for systems that end up with charters they don’t approve.”

Exactly. A nightmare. That’s the “teeth” that make this bill work. When a corrupt failing school has no money they will have to fire the incompetent people who made the school fail. When we continue to pour money into a corrupt system, the thieves will continue to do the same old thing. If they have less money or no money at all, they will be forced to either make positive changes or to fire the incompetent employees.

This is Darwinism at its best. Survival of the fittest. The BEST public schools will survive instead of the worst public schools.

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Mary E,
You say charter schools would create a homogeneous school filled with students who are too poor to go to charter schools.

I would like to hear your thoughts about Coan Middle School. Coan is a public school that is already a wretched dismal, failure filled with children who are served the very worst in education. THey were rated as a massive failure in learning and then became a complete scandalous debacle in the cheating scandal. There is no charter school that created this problem. Coan and APS created this problem.

So your prediction is true that public schools will become a homogeneous crowds of underserved poor people — it has already happened at Coan middle school. No one wants to go to school at Coan. No one has ever said a good thing about Coan yet we continue to pour money into that sunken ship. A charter school could definitely help that community and it certainly could do no worse.

Your thoughts? GM

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Yes, I am worried, you asked an intelligent question “I suspect that the demographic changes are primarily responsible for the gains at Lin. The question is, what caused the shift — was it destruction of public housing, redistricting, some combination of both?”

I was around in 2001. THere was no public housing closing then or now and there was no redistricting but demographic changes are involved. Allow me to explain.

I was around in 2001. There were some nice homes but a lot of bad ones and there were crack houses too. Drug addicts living and selling drugs on the street was common and the streets were in bad repair.

I was unmarried then and had no children and lived there. I worked to make my neighborhood livable. I continually called the police and patrolled the area showing them where the addicts and dealers lived and how they worked. We, as neighbors, cleared away debris and trash and places where these horrible people thrived. I kept on the city to get the roads repaired and you bet I bought every piece of wrapping paper and other item every little school child was selling. I helped to create a better neighborhood along with my neighbors and the school became successful by the efforts of other hard-working people like me.

When the school began to have a good reputation, more families moved in. It’s just exactly like that old saying “If you build it they will come.”

If you build a good public school, the families will come. Families look for a good public school, then buy the best house they can afford that is zoned for it.

The demographics change is two-fold. You have pioneers like me who made it good and then you had good families moving in to make it even better.

GM

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I absolutely agree, this resolution is long overdue. Competition will separate the good schools from the bad. Charter schools will make the local schools step up their game.

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I was never a cheerleader for charters (and still have serious reservations about those granted to “for profit” companies) but I have come around to the type of charter started by parents in the community. My system is going through this right now. A segment of about a third of the system’s parents are very dissatisfied with the decisions of the BOE, and would like to have a charter in a (now) unused, recently closed school, a school with 130+ year history. I have hopes that, one way or another, they are able to get this up and running, because it could provide a “laboratory” school where new ideas can be tried out–ideas that might be adopted for all the schools eventually. I think the new law is the only hope the charter parents have.

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@Skeeter, 7:15 am

“Charter Schools? An attempt to privatize public schools…with public funds. Even ole Skeeter can see this.”
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Skeeter, you are not the only one who can see this coming. The Legislature established this past week as ‘School Choice Week’, and if anyone cannot see the ideological agenda behind promoting “school choice” as a week of note, you need to look more closely at the ties some in Georgia’s Legislature have with those of national influence and wealth, who have an ideological agenda to promote in many states, as well as nationally.

If parents do not put some brakes on this “school choice” bandwagon, you may see yourself, in 10 years, having predominately privatized schools (not paid with public funds) in which you pay businesses yourself to manage your children’s development – for profit and for their own purposes, and that includes public charter schools that may well transition to private charter schools in the process. Furthermore, law could be changed for a state-ordained Commission of Charter Schools to be able to allow that to occur.

The public would be wise to look deeper than some are looking, presently. This is a bigger movement than just involving your individual children. Moreover, public taxes for education may get less and less as business interests take over educating children. You could end up paying more in the long run, as retired people and others, who have no children to educate, no longer pay taxes to educate all of Georgia’s children. This occurring would truly be “everyone for himself” even in education which was designed, and promoted by Jefferson, to serve the “common good” of all.
Is this what you really want long-ranged for yourself and for your nation? Better look deeper.

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Folks, Again I ask for the FACTS. If the primary purpose for charters is to provide competition to the system schools so they will improve, show me an instance where that has happened? APS has more charters than any other system in the state. Need I say more? Competition sounds good in theory, but it isn’t producing the desired results in this case. And school choice is a separate issue from charter schools. We could have school choice without giving our money to snake oil salesmen who are promising a better education for children when, FACTS don’t indicate that charters perform any better than regular schools. Charter parents aren’t getting involved in fixing their local schools, they are being duped into fleeing the problem and watering down the focus. I’m fine with innovated laboratory schools in a school system, but 1) that doesn’t require a charter school and 2) not when they are unregulated and not held accountable for excellence. Show me a charter that has ever been shut down because it is mediocre or it has failed to use the taxpayer dollar wisely(and, again FACTS show that is a majority of them.) The only one I know that has been shut down by a system recently is FSA and Fulton County had to take it in the teeth to get rid of that mess. Parents didn’t know or didn’t care if the business decisions of the school were horrible (and congrats to the AJC for reporting on it). The parents just didn’t want their precious child to have to attend the regular schools (some of which are Blue Ribbon school as well) with all “those other kids”. A state constitutional amendment giving authority to an appointed group of charter czars isn’t the way to improve the poorly performing schools districts in Georgia and it will certainly detract attention and money from the ones that are working to improve or are already doing well (and FACTS indicate we have some well performing public schools in Georgia.)

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I think I’ll read the study done that states Charters do no better than public schools. My personal observations say that often Charters work and accomplish the goals the parents established for their child(ren). Most charters are performing with less money – I would say if they are measuring performance then doing the same with less would be an improvement. In Cobb the school board seems to only approve charters they have a special interest in – David Morgan for one. I keep reading the slams on Florida. My sister teachers in a charter school in Leon County. The children came to them all under performing. Those same children are now passing the FCAT (similar to CRCT) and showing gains on the ITBS. The school does not do social promotion and each teacher teaches a subject to three grades. I see a lot of value in that approach. You already know which children need more direction, should not sit in certain places and other details you learn those first few weeks of school.

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East Cobb – the report was done by Sanford University. It is interesting reading. You can also look up all schools performance in Georgia on the state’s website gadoe.org under “data”. to see how every indivudal school is doing. As for what you mention your sister is doing, that can also being done in regular schools. It is called Looping and works well for schools that don’t have a lot of turnover in the student body. Finally, your comment that charter schools have less money – that is not true. Under Georgia law, charters have to be funded “no less favorably” than regular schools. I think the system get to keep some small percentage of the money to pay for the monitoring costs (like 2% or something), but Georgia charter get the same exact funding that other schools get. And they can even get their buildings for free if there is an unused building in a system. But again, it all is monitored by a school system – not the state government. This amendment is not a good idea.

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Republicans have pushed this thru in order to satisfy the demands of their far-right conservative supporters who want a State full of Christian Academys. The fact that these schools will teach, among other things, that Science is just full of unproven theories and result in graduating students who can’t possibly compete with those from non-charter schools does not faze them in the slightest. To them Scripture tops Science every time.

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“Full Charter Schools” do what public /converter charter schools can’t do! They have the flexibility to adjust staff and to meet the educational requirements of the children.
Many of these public and converted charter schools are top heavy in personnel head count in administration and high cost; just like many of the local boards. When a Full Charter gets a fixed dollar per student that it! They have to use this for staff, buildings, educational supplies, and class room materials However; local public schools have “other tax revenue streams such as SPLOST”.

Example: Fulton Co + State pay a full charter about $7900 per student (That it the buck stops here, if the school needs more they have raise it on their own)
Where Local public school in State + Fulton it more like $9700 per student (Already a imbalance of higher cost tax dollars to public school)
Wait,, that Local public school also gets SPLOST (more tax pay money) to pay for buildings and other improvements wink wink. (Yet the Full Charter gets zero extra tax dollars!)
Therefore, when you hear someone say the state is taking away from local fund to fund a charter school. What really should be saying is that the State is saving taxes by doing so.

I love teachers and I think they are underpaid. Yet they get steady stream of misinformation from the local adminstration and lobbying groups that skew the truth. The teachers feel compelled or threatened thy must back the adminstrations and so called lobbiest/assocations. If the teachers will wake up to the fact that the adminstrators and board are the blood suckers of the tax dollars and cause of their low wages they would be more apt to pull for full charter schools to improve their lives. The charter teachers get the same benefit package under state law, the salary are based on preformance. So you reguar school puplic good teachers what work hard with little reward get discurrage over time and many then just cave in and not work as hard. Just think how you feel when you head of a local board making $400,0000!! to your what $35-65K? Or what about all those other adminstrators or tentune teachers (sittiing arroung not teaching at all collecting pay) while we have over crouded class rooms. A lot of that money could be better server to the teacher salarys, class room supplys, field trips .

I was privliage to get involved with a full charter school Fulton Science Academy (FSA) in N. Fulton just recently because of the chater renewal was denined by Fulton Country Board. Why you will hear all kind news and after I investiaged this found them to be full of negetive lies by mainly the school board. Examples ‘they approved a bond for new school building with out our approval and as tax payor steward we can not allow this’ Truth, The tax payors are not on the hook for this bond, as the bond was with a investment company and FSA would only lease to own the building. Then you hear some say this iCharter that gets to pick and choose students.. Truth, no they have standard enrolment and with in a geograhic zone just like all schools, parents can enroll their students their as long as they have space. FSA only problem they are limited by the Charter on number of students thus new applicats must apply and be placed on lottery system. This system is open and video taped for all you nay sayors to see the lottery drawing. After the lottery for open slots 30-65 or so they have about 200 student place on waitiing list. (This I found to be incredable the number of students wanting to go to this school by choice and they don’t have wining sports but winning acadmemic teams) Also after the charter was denined by the local board the school applied for state chater and funny of the 513 students all but 1 re-enrolled knowing next year will be a finanical tough scracrafic. This just show you how much the kids and parents love this school. Then I saw another post from a school boad adminstrator that the school was being investagte by the FBI and Attoreny Generals office for violation of imigraton laws and the FBI told Dr. Alvosa to not to renew the charter. Fact; this is a lie, the FBI does not investiage this not their juersdiction (Civic teachers you should know this), it is the INS and State Department and no such investigation exist according to you know this is true). I have heard so many lies from the board and its adminstrators that the teacher in reguar public school are starting to belive these lies I found out over the 10 years this school has operated with this fixed revene (much less than regular public schools) that they were able to save yes save in their bank account $750,000 which they have as an emergency fund. I ask what local public school has saved an emergency fund on their own? No they just ask the board for more and the board figures out a way to shift money arround and if they can’t then they just find a way to levy more taxes!

This is occuring not just with FSA but it is full attack on all Full Charter schools. Why? It all’s come down to simpley the adminstrators and board make big $$$ to control the teachers at expense of students and tax payors. The Full Charter schools system is a threat to the aminstration and board (only and not teachers) lively hood of minulapution of funds from teachers and tax payors so neither get more bang for the buck like in Full Charter schools system. A full charter shows that more Tax dollars do not equate a better education as the charters opperate with less with better results. (FSA) just became a National Blue Ribbon school for excelense in learning. This frankly scares the school board because it show their system is bad for the students, teachers and tax payors. So their answer to this threat was two fold “ apply for conversion charter” (PS: not same as full charter and they still maintain control over teachers salarys and hiring practices) and to get rid of high preforming Charter schools that make them look bad.

Now the State and voters see this and they want to support Charter schools and here come the spin masters from all the local boards and adminstrators trying to protect the statiou quo that has kept GA in the bottom of educations ranking for years.

I hope all teachers, parents, tax payor’s and voters get behind the Full Charter schools.

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Momto2 – Again, FACTS please. “my child didn’t feel safe” is not an assessment of whether the charter schools is a good investment for the taxpayer dollar. Is there any evidence that would indicate the charter school is safer than the regular school? Nope. As a matter of FACT, it seems this school had a student show up with a gun at the school last year. FACTS, please. If your child doesn’t know how to function in a public setting like white, rich, manicured North Fulton County, you’ve got problems that a school can’t solve.

As for CATRANS, your numbers don’t align with the number posted in the independently audited budget of the FCS system. Where did you get your numbers (let me guess – charter school leaders?). I looked up the audited report on line (I especially like the bar graphs of funding levels at each school – cool stuff). You have been given inacurate information. As to the quality of the school’s decision making, you propose that the AJC, the state department of education, the school system, and Fitch Rating company are all lying about the dealings of this school? And there is an FBI investigation too? I had missed that part, but since you brought it up, I googled it. FCS should have shut them down just based on that! So, apparently the New York Times and the Philly Inquirer are a part of the lies? According to you, the school wasn’t renewed because a 100,000 kids school system is worried about teacher salaries for about 500 kids? The system budget looks like it is $1B annually and has 12,000 or so teachers. You think all those parties in three different states made all this up and the system took all this heat from poorly informed parents in the little local blogs over about 30 teachers salaries? Interesting theory….no FACTS to support it, but interesting none the less.

Folks – These parents’ posts are indicators as to why we cannot allow the charter schools to continue unregulated. Even with all these FACTS from numerous sources about the poor decisions made at this particular charter, these parents want us to continue pay for this kind of school? At least with the systems, when some goes wrong, we have ways to address it, as APS and FCS have painfully learned. Again, I think this amendment is a bad idea.

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@ followthemoney 02/02/12 6:31 pm –If we’re being objective every point you attempted to make relative to the fiscal responsibility exercised by public charters could be and has been pointed back to the seemingly sanctified elected local school boards. The cronyism manifested those elected (& paid in some cases) to manage/oversee local districts has been well documented so there is no real need to re-hash the myriad of examples that could be sighted as counterpoints to your arguments. The point here is local districts have manifested no greater managerial capacity than that exercised by boards running public charters.

When you strip down the concern to its base, it would appear to me the question becomes is the governance structure of the public education status quo sufficiently meeting the needs of the population its purported to serve (meaning are traditional public institutions significantly better run fiscally and achieving higher academically) ? And if the answer to the aforementioned is no, then we need to ask ourselves are public charters a reasonable component to add to the mix in an effort spark progressive change in the status quo? Dispite the strong support of public charters in many communities the local board that represent them have overwhelming said NO ! Hense the passage of the original bill that formed the State Charter Commission in the first place.

No matter which side of this debate you stand on, I only wish is that those participating in the debate present a balanced view pro and con instead of emotionally charged rhetoric that propagates half-truths, outright lies and mostly serves just to perpetuate the status quo which I dare say the majority of us feel has failed to deliver the quality of outcomes we’re expecting.

Personally, I agree with those who call for strong fiscal and academic accountability measures for public charters no matter who authorizes them!! But what I think a lot of people who hold that view miss is that the power exists today to exercise the degree of accountability that’s desired and/or necessary! Recognizing that point you have to take as step back and ask why is it not happening for existing public charters where mis-management has manifested itself? Furthermore, Why is the fight to prevent the existence of START UP public charter institutions specifically so fierce? For it’s the existence of more start-up charters that rankle the ire of so much of the public education establishment.

Speaking to the often used argument in response to latter inquiry aforementioned, I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how dispersing local tax dollars to educate a child living within the local tax authority(i.e. local school district) being educated within the local tax authority at a public charter institution is any different than the same dollars being used by the local district to educate the same child at a traditional public institution with the same local tax authority. It’s the same money going to the benefit the same child in the same local area. The only difference I see who is maintaining operational control / fiscal accountability for the pool of funds in question. One detailed look at a lot of the budgets of the local districts most vocal in opposition to this proposed bill would reveal they are no more prudent with how funds are allocated/expended than a public charter board would be.

So someone please tell me, what am I missing here? Is the real answer simply that secretly we actually support the status quo that has so failed us despite all of our lip service to the contrary?

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Good Mom 02/02/12 6:37 pm – With the support of Mayor Reed, there has already been a bill passed (last year if my memory serves) which give the Governor the power to remove duly elected members of local boards of education. IMHO, that as a lot of discretionary power to have been surrendered. You asked for it, you got it.

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@ Follow The Money & @East Cobb – I’ve read the Stanford report in question and I would say given the timing of the data collection, the report at best gives us a snapshot of a moment in time (effectively 2003/2004 thru 2007/2008). Lets face it the charter movement was still very green in GA at that point and there has been some degree of improvements realized after the study concluded.

This school year would mark the 4 four year since that report concluded and in that time there has been CONSIDERABLE change in the quality of the public charter institutions operating across the state of GA. Personally, I think another study conducted in a simular fashion would give us a true longigtudial view of the performance of charters within GA as it would give us to compartive point in time with which to make a more informed judgement.

In the end we may find that the needle hasn’t moved much from the original report but I think more data to examine is better than making judgements based on what’s effectively at this point stale data at best.

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@ CATTRANS – Its important in expressing our positions that we’re careful with use of terms which often spin the conversation in directions that muddy the waters and prevent throughtful analysis/debate.

There is no such thing as a “FULL CHARTER” or a “Corporate Charter” as I’ve read the term used in this blog thread.

It appears what you’re describing is what in GA Law is referred to as a “Start-Up Charter” meaning a school created new from the ground up vs a “Conversion Charter” which represents a previously existing traditional public school (or district) that petitioned to change its status. There is no concept in GA law of a Start Up Charter District, although given how they have been allowed to operating within the APS , KIPP has essentially established a start up charter k-12 cluster mostly located on the west side of the city.

No matter the if charter institution was created via Start-Up or Conversion route both types are PUBLIC SCHOOLS funded primarily with PUBLIC FUNDS raised and dispersed by various taxing authorities (local,state,federal) with the juristiction to do so.

Further, not every Start-Up Charter is run by a corporate concern. Some are, in fact alot of them are. However, there are examples of local districts creating start-up charters of their own (Clayton I believe has done thus along with some others). In fact in the last round of RTTT state grants, there were multiple awards to local districts (of which Cobb was one) seeking to start up new charter institutions within their districts. Thus corporate concerns like Imagine, Edison, Mosaic et al don’t have a monopoly on the ability to petition create Start-Up Charters. Some are created by grass roots community groups who ultimately hire a corporate concern to help them manage operating the institution.

As I step down from my soap box today, I again state there is a serious need from some real foundational education about the structure of Charter laws as they presently exist as we contemplate the changes being proposed. Sometimes our discourse in these blogs don’t really inform accurately.

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HR1162 will almost certainly allow a successor to the Charter Schools Commission to be created, so once again state funds will “follow the child.” Why? Because local school boards do not (unlike the Supreme Court decision incorrectly says) have sole authority over public education. The state is pushing for better solutions for all children. The local boards, through their association and the superintendents’ association, seem to be more focused on money than children (as if money is all you need to help the children). The status quo seems to be ignoring the will of parents and taxpayers – or worse, assuming it is enough that parents and taxpayers are represented by local boards of education. This is a good struggle, and children will eventually benefit, once the voters speak as parents and taxpayers and force resolution. I only hope that 2/3 of the legislators are willing to give them that voice in November.

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“The status quo seems to be ignoring the will of parents and taxpayers – or worse, assuming it is enough that parents and taxpayers are represented by local boards of education”

You speak as if there is some large ignored majority. If so, why haven’t they been expressing their concern via the ballot box and electing those who would change things up to now? I get tired of hearing about all the horrible things public education is doing from those who have just as much right to vote as anyone else. Seems you have the legislators now, but we’ll have to see.

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May your comment is spot on. You wrote “I’m glad our reporter talked to “experts” on both sides of this debate.”

It’s a reference to Maureen Downey’s one-sided presentation of this debate.

Maureen, honestly, you often have me confused. You call yourself a reporter but you often offer your opinion and one side of a debate. Even a high school journalism student knows that a reporter must remain objective, present the facts and never-ever even give a hint of their own opinion.

If you want Get Schooled to be an op-ed piece you can offer your opinion but you have to also offer an opinion from someone on the other side.

Although I value any reporter holding any government entity accountable, overall I am disappointed in your lack of use of elementary journalism standards as is May.

Good Mom

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I wasn’t a fan of charter schools until recently. My child attends a “good” school in Dekalb County. After learning more and more about the waste within the county’s school system and observing adults caring more about themselves than their responsibility to educate students, I have come to support a charter system — one that would enable state and local tax dollars to follow my child into a school where the community has more input and ability to affect change. My local school is good but it could be great. And I would blame the lack of greatness on the county.

And for those of you who think this is about creating segregated schools, my public elementary school is 40/30/30 or so W/AA/H and I would want ALL of those kids to come to the charter school.

All people want is more control over how their education dollars are being spent. Counties like Dekalb have proven that the last thing money should be paid for is the students (and hey, we’d let our teacher participate in Social Security)

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Ron you make a good point you say “You speak as if there is some large ignored majority. If so, why haven’t they been expressing their concern via the ballot box and electing those who would change things up to now?”

We do get to vote on one representative on the school board but they don’t have total control over our schools. Other people on the school board get to decide what to do with our schools. Those people I did not elect have control over my school and that is how we are ignored.

What a charter school allows voters to do — is FIRE the school board. Sure, they’ll actually still have their job, but the corrupt board will have no more control over the school because they won’t have the money and that is what the monstrous school board beast cares about — money.

It’s time to castrate the corrupt school board beast !

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@followthemoney, according to those I spoke to the public schools in Leon refused to consider the looping concept, hence a charter school that does. As a parent, I’m tired of crappy textbooks full of errors, the lack of solid math, waste of money on electronic gadgets and school boards that treat our taxes as their personal spending. Not to mention the rubber stampers we have on the Cobb School Board. The funding for education is about as clear as mud, how about the money follows the child and be done with it. The teachers are trying to do with less, yet the super gets his raise. I try to attend or watch all the board meetings. From what I can tell very few seem to have the children’s best interest in mind. Everything comes down to the money. As soon as the children are in bed I plan to start the reading on charter schools.

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As a parent I have had my child in the public school system and recently made the change to a Charter school for numerous reasons. The public school system my children resided in was failing them. They were not being challenged, were not being properly looked after and the communication between the school and myself as a parent was terrible. I tried many times to address these issues and was told that the school was doing the best it could and that was that. In the Charter school I get an immense amount of communication from the teachers and staff, I am up to date daily on what is occurring with my child, the learning is interactive and exciting and the teachers there seem enthused about the day to day activities. I feel a great deal of that is do to the fact that the school answers to the parents and has to be held accountable. Public school systems no longer feel the need to have parents approval. The fear from school boards firing teachers, to teachers that are burnt out and administrations under power trips has caused public schools to go down hill. At our previous public school my son was suppose to stay in the ASP program. The teacher forgot to relay the message to him from the office. He was sent home on the bus. No one was at the home. Luckily we rented out a finished basement apartment we had and the tenant was there. he contact me as the school was unaware that he was missing. When I called the school very upset and asked to speak to the principle she was irritated that she was pulled from a meeting to “deal with this” and “if only a small percentage of students are sent to the wrong place after school they are doing pretty good!” She actually bragged about going to find children herself that were sent home incorrectly! Her response, if I was unhappy then I should find somewhere else to go with my kids, end of discussion. No apology, nothing. Why is this behavior considered good enough. And if it is I should have the option of “somewhere else”. Maybe Charter schools is what the public system needs to wake up and understand what their purpose is: providing a great education and chance for a great future.

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I should also comment to some comments made above about charter schools being able to remove students whose parents don’t attend parent-teacher conferences – I can’t honestly speak for other charter schools, but I know that isn’t the practice at FSA, and frankly, I don’t think it could be possible in others either. From what I’ve been told, the only way to remove a child is through the same process other schools do – through a tribunal. And in reference to the gun incident mentioned above – if you weren’t there you don’t know the details, and although it may seem cut-and-dry, things aren’t always that way, and weren’t in that particular case. Besides, 1 incident of that “severity” in 10 years at a school, I’d say, is pretty darn good compared to what I hear goes on daily at other neighboring schools…

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To TC – your defense of FSA’s actions have NO basis in fact. The lies are well documented, conflict of interest is well-documented. They wrote in their charter petition to on Nov. 21st 2011, pg. 72 that site approval by the state was REQUIRED but had not been granted yet. They started construction anyway. The admin then posted on their website that charter schools did not need state approval prior to construction. This is called lying. They stated in the petition correspondence that the reports of conflict of interest with Grace Institute were inaccurate. Oh – it’s not conflict of interest when Ali Ozer and ALL the principals sit on the Grace board of directors and pay Grace for “services rendered.” This is called paying yourself twice with my tax dollars or sending the money to a place that I have don’t know about. Check out the 990’s for Grace – its free on Guidestar. Oh and how come a middle school is spending $40k per year on legal fees? and $16K for PR – to spread misinformation to the media? Oh, and why on earth is FSA High School ranked 45 out of 50 if this teaching method is so great? Where do all those blue ribbon kids go? Why am I paying $2.2m per year for this substandard school right down the road from high schools in top ten??? Dr. Avossa finally had the guts to say NO. Oh, then Oppenhiemer, who bought some of the bonds for building this yet unapproved new school wrote a THREATENING letter to the entire school board because they could be facing issues and investor angst. The school board did the right thing and our legislators expect them to turn their backs to salvage investors?? Wake up folks – charter schools can be great but they can also be a magnet for hidden interests and corruption! !

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The question here ultimately is oversight, or lack of. If our local school boards and State education department are lacking in oversight of both Charter and the non-Charter school system why would we want to expand Charters without proof that there will be proper oversight? And will they be as successful without blanket waivers and appropriate oversight? Is it really fair to compare the non-Charter local school system that does not have a waiver from state rules and regulations to Charter schools that have enjoyed exemptions from rules that can “tie the hands” of local public schools? Again, maybe if our elected officials could create legislation to correct some of the problems in our public schools, or would correct the problems using already existing regulations then we wouldn’t need Charter schools. As far as apparent inequities in funding (not enough facilities money for the Charter schools) the state has a facilities fund, why aren’t the Charters aiming their media frenzy towards getting the education department to actually release some of that money? And as far as FSA is concerned they have managed well enough to amass almost $1 million in assets between the 3 schools.

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To Elizabeth – Well said!! Thank you. Investors buying school bonds should have done their homework. Caveat emptor.

To HS Public Teacher – Your assessment that legislators are attempting to push this bill through for wealthy parents is spot on.

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I keep hearing about this so-called “lack of accountability” – in what way exactly?

Academically? No, the charter for a charter school has very specific goals that are to be reached, and those goals are specifically set higher than those of the other public schools – they have to prove they are better – and to this point FSA MS has met their charter goals.

Financially? Every year FCS audits the finances of the school to make sure they are using funds appropriately, and they have the right to do it more often if they choose to do so. Nothing has ever been found in these audits or the independent one the school initiated recently. The bond issued for the new building wasn’t taxpayer funding, so there isn’t an issue of taxpayer money being spent unwisely there either.

In regards to the new building? Again, as stated above, SITE APPROVAL isn’t required by Fulton County policy at the time of construction, only before students enroll, and FCSS representatives were present at the August 30th meeting regarding the building of the new campus. Yes, they were aware, and yes procedures were followed based on what they gave the school at the time.

Waivers? It has only recently been changed that FCSS has begun to require charter schools to ask for specific waivers for EVERYTHING they want exemption from. This was only the case in the last couple of years and was never required of FSA MS until this go around. THIS GOES AGAINST THE TYPICAL WAY CHARTERS ARE RUN. The State has told us that (ok, yes, I can’t provide “proof” for you, but I know it was said), and frankly, that is what the purpose of charter schools is all about – getting out from the beaurocratic, red-tape, micro-management of an inept system and allowing the charter school to run itself in the ways it deems necessary for the best interests of its students. Why should a charter school have to ask the County for permission for each out-of-state field it chooses to do? What, a Model UN team going on to Nationals in NY has to be approved? We have to ask the County for permission on every educational opportunity we want to offer our students? We can’t figure out for ourselves as educators what would be a good educational opportunity? Only the arrogance of a County that thinks too highly of itself truly believes no one else can do it better than them, and that no one else can figure out what might be best for THEIR students.
And YES it is fair to compare the schools “without their hands tied” to the ones whose are – that’s exactly how one would know that not being micromanaged is actually better for education… Obviously, FCSS knows that this is true, that’s precisely why they are applying to the State to be a charter system…

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One last thing in regards to waivers I didn’t mention above – charter schools still must follow specific rules and regulations in regards to specific things regarding student safety, reporting, testing, etc. It’s not like there are NO rules for charter schools to follow, there’s just more flexibility on the ones that could potentially enhance the students’ educational experience.

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Enter your comments here

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Carlos, you claim that “Republicans have pushed this thru in order to satisfy the demands of their far-right conservative supporters who want a State full of Christian Academys.”

That’s an interesting comment and I am going to assume for a moment that the Republicans have that as their agenda.

So, they want a lot of Christian Academies that teach religion rather than science. I understand that, my cousins go to an academy just like the one you describe.

I’ll even agree with you further that fundamentalist Christians will pull their kids out of a local school and open a charter school for the sole purpose of indoctrinating their own children in their view of what religion is.

Ok, so how does that affect you and me? I am not a fundamentalist and you say you are neither. Those parents cannot force us to go to the Christian academy. We can stay in our own public school or our own private school — so why the beef?

If your argument is that those christian academy kids will pull away money from other public schools that’s right but it still won’t impact us because when they pull out the kid, they pull away the need for the money.

We won’t have to pay to educate that child because that child is not in the classroom. As a matter of fact, the charter schools may have a benefit to a public school – it might relieve some overcrowding in areas.

….are you a teacher, Carlos? Are you afraid that if public schools become smaller then people lik eyou will lose their jobs?

I would disagree with that for one reason – people are still having children. That’s something we do very consistently. There will always be a need for teachers. Some public school teachers may even decided they want to teach in a charter school because they may also be a fundamentalist Christian. Those teachers are charter schools will also enjoy the same pay and benefits as those in other public schools.

I am trying hard to undertand the negative response of teachers regarding opening charter schools. Teachers on this blog consistently complain about local school board administrators threatening them and bullying them. If that is the case (and I believe it) then it seems teachers would welcome an opportunity to stay in the profession they love while getting away from the administrators they claim to hate.

Your thoughts? Would enjoy reading them,
Thanks, GM

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You say “Now…can we talk about elementary school instrumental music programs?”

yes, please! Share your thoughts. I don’t know much about instruments but my child is very interested and i would love to know more please !

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Charters follow due process related to expulsion of students. Charters do often have a more strictly enforced discipline code. The districts COULD do this if they chose to do so – I’m sure parents would appreciate if they would. Charters, like districts can expel students based on the discipline code. Students who are expelled from charter should go through the discipline tribunal at the district before entering back into the the regular classroom setting, alternative school, etc….it is entirely up to the district to accept the child back into the system.

Charters can’t by law have eligiblity criteria (i.e., a requirement for parent involvement), Parents are often asked to commit time (parent compact) – it’s a big part of the culture of many of the charters, but it’s not a criteria for enrollment. The state can verify this if you need confirmation.

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What is it with you charter people and conspriacy theories? The FACTS are clear. FSA made some poor decisions (and apparently continues to do so according to the state construction people). When the time came to renew their school, FCS said it wanted to keep a closer eye on the school because of the history of poor decisions and asked for a tighter rein by having a shorter contract and more legal language in the contract. The school didn’t want those contract terms and refused to send in an agreement that met the county’s terms. FCS said, “it’s been nice knowing ya. Good luck in the future.” Seems pretty simple to me. And don’t bother to come back with more conspiracy theory stuff. Everything is on line and documented. Dark shadows and hidden intentions are simply your speculations as to the motivations of FCS, the NYT, the Philly Inquirer, the FBI, the state construction department and Fitch Rating who apparently all conspired to prevent this school from turning in a contract that met the county’s reasonable (in my opinion) demand to have more monitoring over the actions of this school. Whatever…moving on to bigger topics.

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The Fulton County School System even in good schools serves the lowest common denominator. The administration at these schools is completely and totally reluctant to deal with disruptive kids in class due to legal and regulatory concerns. I have seen first hand how FCS schools inaction allows the learning environment to be compromised for all other students in a class. High achieving motivated students as well as developmently challenged students are being short changed by FCS due to policies such as main streaming children that can’t function in a regular classroom. This is why parents who value education are seeking alternatives to the traditional public school environment.

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@ Proud Teacher,

I agree with many of your points. There are 2 that I would like to address:

1. Flexibility – the districts have ALWAYS been able to ask for waivers/flexibility. Check out the state website – it has a list of all of the waivers granted to systems.

2. I am really trying to understand your perspective on charters. First, charter founders, parents and students didn’t “cut and run.” It’s not like managing and even being a parent in a charter school is easy. It’s not. It’s a ton of work. Everybody makes sacrifices, but they are worth it because parents have a voice, everybody is working towards the same mission, teachers have a voice, discipline is highly valued, as is innovation, character, work ethic, and achievement.

As far as charters “causing many problems to the public school that is left behind,” how is that so? How would you be any better or worse off? Start up charter schools account for about 2% of the state’s population – how you you even feel a blip in your classroom? If you are referring to charters “skimming” the “good” kids, that is unsubstantiated. Again, look at the demographics of charters in the state (someone already provided the annual report link.) They serve a HIGHER population of at risk kids, which should HELP. I want to understand, really I do, but your claim doesn’t make sense to me – can you please explain?

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And, Proud Teacher, you could not be more accurate. Our new Charter here in Cherokee refused multiple special needs children last year because ‘they couldn’t afford to educate them.’ Can you IMAGINE the lawsuit that would follow this type of behavior from your local school district!!?!!!? If these schools get PUBLIC, tax payer dollars, they need to have the SAME level of accountability that all public schools have. Must be nice to get a blank check and make up your own rules! No wonder politicians back these schools over our gov’t run public schools. Just one more way to circumvent ACCOUNTABILITY!

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