State Sen. Carter: Reinstitute cap on HOPE and base it on available lottery funds each year
State Sen. Jason Carter is sponsoring legislation to restore an income cap for HOPE that would be predicated on available lottery funds.
Jason Carter, D-Atlanta, is the state senator from the 42nd District, representing DeKalb. Carter is sponsoring legislation to restore an income cap on HOPE recipients, although his cap is higher than the one that Gov. Zell Miller put in place when he created HOPE.
In 1993, HOPE was limited to students from families earning less than $66,000 a year. The cap was raised to $100,000 in 1994. A year later, flush with lottery revenues, the state eliminated any cap on HOPE.
However, with the lottery failing to keep pace with the rising costs of HOPE, there is now discussion of restoring an income cap. I asked Sen. Carter to write an op-ed piece for the Monday AJC about his legislation. Here is a preview for blog readers:
By state Sen. Jason Carter
Last year, Governor Nathan Deal made his reform of the lottery-funded HOPE Scholarship programs his only “signature” legislation.
Today, based on his administration’s own reports, it is clear that his reform has failed.
First, the governor’s budget calls for the HOPE programs to pay out more that they take in — again.
In fact, the plan not only dips into the lottery reserves, but it spends HOPE’s “rainy-day” money until it cannot spend any more. Thus, despite the “reform” HOPE is still not living within its means.
In addition, the current plan fails the hard-working, high-achieving students who depend on HOPE, and the plan ultimately harms our state’s economy.
According to the Georgia Student Finance Commission, by 2016 — in just four years — HOPE will pay for less than half the cost of college. And, HOPE will continue to vanish over time. By the time my children are in college, HOPE will be an afterthought in the scheme of college costs.
Every year there will be more high-achieving students who cannot afford college. We need well-educated students to drive our economy, and any HOPE plan that reduces the number of students who can afford college can only be called a failure.
The administration’s badly miscalculated Zell Miller Scholars program makes the situation worse. Right now, more than 80 percent of the Miller recipients go to Georgia’s two most expensive colleges. And because it provides full tuition, the Miller program will get more expensive as tuition rises. The cost of the Miller program will balloon, while HOPE is vanishing.
We can do better. Senate Democrats filed legislation that will truly preserve HOPE for the future. Put simply, rather than destroy HOPE for everyone, we would restore the full HOPE scholarship for the maximum number of students every year. In addition to the current academic requirements, we would reinstitute HOPE’s original income cap. The cap will be set as high as possible each year based on lottery revenues, so that we maximize the number of students who get a full scholarship.
This year, if the cap is set at a family income of $140,000, then about 94 percent of Georgia families would be eligible for full HOPE. In many communities this would protect virtually all current HOPE scholars.
Our plan also reforms the Miller Scholarship to provide it to the top 3 percent of every high school, regardless of income. The best and brightest from every Georgia community would get a full scholarship, and the Miller Scholars would be spread throughout the University System, making it a truly statewide program.
This plan is more fiscally responsible. With a $140,000 cap, HOPE would run a surplus this year, instead of depleting the reserves. And in 2016, when the Governor’s plan pays less than half the cost of college, this plan could still provide the full scholarship for students whose families make less than $140,000. Unlike last year’s plan, the scholarship would serve its purpose and be financially sound.
I and others stand willing to discuss new and better ideas. But if we allow the failed HOPE reforms to stand, we risk the future of our children, our economy and we diminish HOPE for everyone.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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199 comments Add your comment
Janet
January 28th, 2012
7:39 pm
I also agree with Lee and as a parent of 2 future college students, I would support a Reimbersment program. Pulling back tuition costs and using a Reimbersment program is what makes the most financial sense. I realize it’sn ot ideal for some because many really great students will not be able to come up with the money. But the alternative is turning it into an entitlement program.
If they government wants to make it an entitlement program, they should just call it that and stop giving the rest of us false hope (punn intended). But even if they do make it an entitlement program, they still won’t see a return on their investment because of grade inflation causing so many of the disadvantaged kids to be unprepared for college leading to ridiculously high drop out rates. it seems a reimbursement program will work for the most amount.
Seriously?
January 28th, 2012
7:51 pm
To the “Phantom” – a $140k family income cap on a government tuition assistance program is hating “the middle class?” According to the Census, the median household income was Georgia is $49,347 in 2011. I would think being somewhere close to the median household income would be pretty much the definition of “middle class.” I don’t know where he got the numbers, but he says 94% of Georgia families would be under the $140k cap he’s proposing. Assuming that’s true, that’s not a proposal that punishes the “middle class.”
By the way, what do you and others like you on this comment thread think about Republicans (and they’re just about all Republicans) who want to save money on Social Security and Medicare by “means testing” them. Democrats are the ones who resist that proposal. So are those Republicans engaging in “class warfare?”
Ronnie Raygun
January 28th, 2012
7:52 pm
I have to laugh at the people crying that they couldn’t afford to pay for their kids tuition if they put a $140,000 cap on HOPE. If you can’t afford tuition while making $140,000, you have SERIOUS spending issues.
Why should students from lower income families have to go into debt for college because some wealthier families are too dumb to manage their money? If they are that bad with money, their kids are probably too dumb to go to college in the first place.
Gerald
January 28th, 2012
7:56 pm
Janet:
See my diatribe. HOPE is already an entitlement program, just like MediCare and Social Security. Adding means testing does not change that. Also, if HOPE is means tested, they won’t hand out scholarships to everyone below the income limit. You will STILL need the “B” average to qualify. You folks just keep telling yourselves “it is not an entitlement program!” because you want to benefit from it, and want to have some justification for separating it from all the other government programs that you want to cut because they DON’T benefit you. But whether you acknowledge it or not or benefit from it or not, HOPE is an entitlement program. It is a big government program created by a liberal Democrat, Zell Miller. (Miller didn’t go conservative until after September 11th when he entered the U.S. Senate. Before then, he was basically indistinguishable from Bill Clinton policy wise, and he was the single most guy responsible for getting Clinton elected by moving up the Georgia primary to give him momentum.) And even if it wasn’t somehow an entitlement program, means testing it wouldn’t make it one, because you would still need the “B” average to qualify … it would still be based on merit. Just because “everybody” can’t benefit from it doesn’t change the fact that it is still based on merit. This whole “make it income based and it becomes an entitlement program that is a payoff to Democratic Party base” … it is just more evidence that government programs cause division, and need to be ended. Folks were paying for their kids’ college education before HOPE, and they can do so again. Also, you don’t need a college education to be a success and provide for yourself and your family anyway. Used to be that only like 5% of the population graduated from college, even now it is only 25%, and the other 75% are for the most part doing fine, even in this bad economy.
Instead of trying to fix HOPE, we should just end it. Folks should get the Gerber Grow Up Plan or one of the many other college savings plans that are VERY ACCESSIBLE to middle class people, and a lot of working class and low income people can afford it too if they but back in other areas. A lot of those plans are even tax-deductible, like those accounts that the late Paul Coverdell (an actual conservative) used to champion instead of more government, more spending, and more instances where the government gets the power to pick winners and losers like they do with HOPE.
What the heck?
January 28th, 2012
8:26 pm
I’ve got an idea. How about make it a semi-loan program where 50% of the cost is paid back over 10 years with no interest. If a college degree adds $1 million to a person’s earnings over a lifetime like the colleges tout, then that should be a drop in the bucket. If a person does not graduate, then they must pay back the full amount.
What the heck?
January 28th, 2012
8:29 pm
Nice comments, Ronnie. One the other hand if low income parents are “too dumb” to get a high paying job then, I guess their kids are probably too dumb to go to college anyway, right?
Guest
January 28th, 2012
8:38 pm
Why don’t we get rid of HOPE altogether and allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy to put downward pressure on the price of college?
Gwinnett Parent
January 28th, 2012
8:41 pm
Enter your comments here
Foghorn Leghorn
January 28th, 2012
8:46 pm
The problem is the ignorant masses are wising up to the probabilities of winning the lottery and they are choosing to spend what little money they have on things like food and housing. Either that or they have absolutely no money at all. What we need is to find another way to part the fools from their money.
Gwinnett Parent
January 28th, 2012
8:50 pm
When a person goes to college, they are an adult. When the student graduates, the loans belong to them, not their parents. Why are we considering a student’s parent’s income, when most times the student is the one paying the bills? I paid my way through college and so did most of my friends. Just because a parent has a higher income does not mean they will pay for their child’s college education.
BOB FROM ACCOUNT TEMPS
January 28th, 2012
8:51 pm
HEY SEN CARTER – HOW ABOUT A CAP ON RISING TUITION COSTS FOR HOPE RECIPIENTS!!
Sam
January 28th, 2012
9:11 pm
Jason Carter is irrelevant. His opinions and proposals are going no where so demogogery is easy for him and his fading democrat buddies.
Jason is so weak that his granddaddy had to temporarily renouce his anti semitic opinions to help get Jason elected.
Means testing hope will kill the political support for the lottery.
Pretty pitiful all ’round
AJW
January 28th, 2012
9:12 pm
Be very careful about income caps for divorced families. Many parents are no longer responsible for their kids after 18, but that parent who is no longer responsible might make a large sum of money, and make it impossible for the child to go to college. No, you can not force a parent to pay for college. The same with defining a household income for blended families, it is not the step-parents responsibility to pay for a step child’s education, and that child should again not be penalized for a large household income. Finally, sure it might be the right thing to do, but the truth is that most financial adviser’s will tell you that you should save for retirement and not pay for your childs education, they are correct. WHy should you spend $150k for college, when that same money will be better invested, unless of course your children are going to promise to pay for your retirement.
Gerald
January 28th, 2012
9:25 pm
Gwinnett Parent:
Oh please. A person going to college isn’t an “adult”, especially when lots of folks go to college at 17 anyway. The drinking age is 21, and many states won’t even allow a female to get married without her parents’ permission until she turns 21. Also, parents have traditionally borne the cost of college education. The reason for this is that 17-18 year olds have not been in the workforce for 10-20 years earning income and saving money, and do not have the means to pay for college themselves. My goodness, parents cover their college student children under their medical insurance plans, and NOW you want to call them adults?
Look, HOPE is going bankrupt, and for all you partisans out there, it is doing so despite the GOP having run this state for over 10 years. There needs to be SOME WAY to limit the spending on the program. Reading the comments on the previous page, it seems like the most popular way among likely GOP voters is to find some way to stop HOPE from going to blacks. Sorry, but a little federal law called the Civil Rights Act makes that impossible. (I am not making this up, go and read all those racist comments on page 1). If not income caps, what other way to you propose (that doesn’t violate the civil rights act like the GOP commenters want)?
This is the truth: HOPE is just another divisive big government program that ends self-reliance. Middle class and upper class Georgians had no problem sending their kids to college before Hope. But after only 20 years of that government welfare program, folks have gotten lazy, addicted to the government cash with an entitlement mentality just like the Section 8 housing residents, folks on WIC and food stamps, and all the other welfare recipients. That is what it is, a welfare program, and folks who get it are welfare recipients. Period. Plus there are the negative effects that it has on education. Kids stopped taking challenging courses and started taking easy ones to get the ‘B’ average, even though taking challenging courses is the way to actually prepare for success in college and flunk out. And lots of schools – especially the ones in the suburbs – began inflating grades right and left to get all their kids free rides into UGA, KSU and what have you.
It is bad economic policy (relying on volatile lottery revenues), bad educational policy, bad social policy, and what is more it is a liberal big government welfare program. Folks used to set up college savings programs, education IRAs, trust frunds etc. Stuff like that helps the economy. Thanks to HOPE, middle and upper class (and poor) families are relying on the government, and using the money to buy an extra SUV, flat screen plasma TV, an I-Pad for every member of the family or other nonsense. No wonder our economy stinks and all the banks are going broke. All HOPE has done is extend the Great Society welfare state mentality and lifestyle from the poor to the middle and upper class.
HOPE being broke needs to be precisely the excuse that we need to end the program, and the lottery with it. And they aren’t even stopping with the lottery. Now they are talking about allowing slot machines and casinos. Once you open a door on letting the government use a social ill as a revenue source, it is very hard to shut it. Next thing you know, they’ll be legalizing cocaine, heroin and prostitution so we can tax it. Would you support that so long as the proceeds went to HOPE so you wouldn’t have to get an education IRA or trust fund? And to think that this is the Bible Belt … then again most Georgia GOPers support Newt Gingrich, so why am I not surprised.
HOPE, a divisive liberal big government program. It should be ended, not mended.
Gerald
January 28th, 2012
9:31 pm
AJW:
Now you are just making up stuff. HOPE relies on household income. A non-custodial divorced parent’s income is no more considered for HOPE than it is for filing tax returns. Blended families: ditto. You assume responsibility for the children along with the marriage contract. If you don’t want to assume financial responsibility for the children of someone else, then don’t marry someone who already has children.
College is a privilege, not a right. Low income people have always understood this. Thanks to HOPE, a generation of middle and upper income Georgians have grown up believing college to be an entitlement. That is what liberal big government does. If you can’t afford college, join the military or get a job. Don’t look for the government to come bail you out. End this “government is the solution, not the problem, except when I personally benefit” mentality. That is precisely the mentality that is bankrupting this country and ruining it culturally right now.
Sam:
If means-testing HOPE ruins political support for it, then PLEASE means-test HOPE, because that liberal big government Democrat welfare program needs to GO.
catlady
January 28th, 2012
10:12 pm
td, ya never know! I guess we are both right!
arff
January 28th, 2012
10:44 pm
You gotta love this crew. Most of the folks on here against the income cap probably don’t even play the lottery. Yet they don’t seem to have a problem with trying to exclude the very folks that make it possible for their kids to receive the Hope scholarship.
The other bit of irony that you see with this kind of crowd is their willingness to exclude “minorities and the disadvantaged” from programs like the Hope scholarships but have their head in the sand when the state spends a ton of their tax dollar incarcerating those same students once they break the law. It’s my understanding that the states spend a whole lot more to lock someone up than to educate them. It would seem that the you guys on here clamoring for the “minorities and disadvantaged” to be left out of the equation would be 100% behind any effort to educate them and keep them out of jail.
This crowd also seems to be the same folks that go on and on about folks needing to work and to stop being lazy. Yet when they want to better themselves you find fault with that as well. There is just no way to please these narrow-minded complainers.
Gerald hit the nail on the head when he called you folks out!
AJW
January 28th, 2012
10:50 pm
-Gerald – I was responding directly to Sen. Carters income cap proposal above. You read to much into it. As for fiscal responsibility, I fully disagree with you. I put myself through college, and so have my children with HOPE, the loans they took for living expenses added up to approx $24k each, that is the cost of a decent car. I can tell you they look beleive that we did the right thing now that they are out of school. They took there studies very seriously and all have (in this economy) have finished school and all of them have full time jobs with benefits. Two schools of thought, the first is to “protect” you kids, the second is to “Prepare” your kids. I will always vote for Prepare your kids.
old school
January 28th, 2012
11:03 pm
The sad part of this whole thing about hope is the poor and the elderly put a great deal of the money into this program. If you don’t believe it go to a place that sells lottery tickets several days in a row buy a cup of coffee and just hang out and watch a sad sad thing take place. You see people so hooked and under the spell of this games believing that the next ticket that they buy will make them rich beyond their wildest dreams and at the same time the government telling these same people it’s just a game and to play responsibly. The thing is THEY CAN’T BECAUSE THEY ARE ADDICTED. What it amounts to is the people that send a lot of these kids to school is the one’s that can lest afford it. The ones on welfare,food stamps and fixed income. Wise up people if you put the money you spend everyday into a fund you would have no problem sending your sending your kids to school believe me i have witnessed the large amount of money people put into these games. If you don’t believe the government hasn’t created an addiction just put your eyes to work and see what goes on. People get in there car daily and go store to store buying tickets thinking this gives them a better chance of winning. People are being dumbed down daily by the government.
bob
January 28th, 2012
11:08 pm
Just another way for Democrats to screw over two parents working for a living. We are not rich by any standards, but make at the 140k mark. Both kids have worked hard to get hope. Daughter is at UGA finished 2nd in high school class. She has a brother who is in his 2nd year at high school and doing a decent job. To once again subsidize a selected few because of income, I am getting sick of it. Daughter was accepted at Yale and Dartmouth to play softball. Still would have costed us 30K/yr.If we made under 75k, she goes there for free. I am so sick of the welfare programs which penalize the middle income guy. This is the problem (one of many) in this country…rewarding failure.
William Casey
January 28th, 2012
11:26 pm
@GERALD: Your 9:26 post is largely a mean-spirited collection of random untruths. HOPE is not an “entitlement.” My son EARNED it by maintaining a 3.71 GPA at Northview HS, one of the best public schools in Georgia. No, he didn’t take easy courses, he EARNED 27 hours of college credit through AP courses. He’s a Zell Miller scholar doing dual degrees (Mathematics & Philosophy) while working as a tutor 16-20 hours per week. HOPE is NOT a “welfare” program. It is an investment in the future. Get serious!
PS: household income currently has nothing to do with HOPE as you state in your 9:31 post. Bizarre.
Lee
January 29th, 2012
12:07 am
@Janet, re “I also agree with Lee and as a parent of 2 future college students, I would support a Reimbersment program. Pulling back tuition costs and using a Reimbersment program is what makes the most financial sense. I realize it’s not ideal for some because many really great students will not be able to come up with the money.”
If a student is low income and could not afford the initial upfront tuition payment, they can easily get a student loan. If they make good grades, they get reimbursed and can apply the HOPE reimbursement to the next semester tuition and not have to take out a loan for subsequent semesters – just keep rolling it forward. They would maintain one semester’s worth of tuition as a loan balance and can pay it off upon receipt of the final HOPE reimbursement.
Now, I realize the timing might be off and the student might have to take out a loan for the second (and subsequent) semesters. In that case, when the student gets the HOPE reimbursement, they simply remit it to the student loans.
Same effect, either way.
Lee
January 29th, 2012
12:23 am
Many companies offer tuition reimbursement as a benefit to their employees. My company did and that’s what I used to obtain both my undergrad and MBA degrees.
Very simple. You pay your tuition up front and when you get your grades, you submit them for reimbursement. My company had a scale, 100% for an A, 90% for a B, and 80% for a C.
A reimbursement program for the HOPE Scholarship has several advantages:
- As I said earlier, it forces the participants to “have skin in the game.”
- Eliminates grade inflation pressure at the high school level.
- Doesn’t penalize students who take A/P classes and make a B
- Very simple to administer. If you can get into college, you qualify for HOPE. No more of this high school GPA plus SAT/ACT score or “Zell Miller” hoops to jump through.
- Doesn’t penalize the students who enroll in a difficult course of study and make average grades. Yes folks, at one time, a C was considered average….
- And finally, it discourages the casual student who goes for a year, has bad grades, and drops out. They can still do it if they choose, but either they or mom and dad pay for it.
To me, making HOPE a reimbursment program makes the most sense – which is why the Legislature will never go for it….. Are you listening Jason Carter?
Foghorn Leghorn
January 29th, 2012
12:30 am
I think bob is a perfect example of why we should end the lottery. Po’ folks subsiding upper middle class folk. That’s just wrong. If you make over $100,000 a year and can’t afford to send your kids to college, maybe you should trade in the “Beamer” for a Ford and cancel your country club membership for a while. And if any other company had commercials that grossly over-estimated the results you could expect from their product, then they would be sued and cited for false advertisment. End state sponsored lottery now!
Paddy O
January 29th, 2012
12:34 am
GSU mom- if you are hauling that much $$ in, why is you son borrowing the dough? And why is it so expensive to go to GSU? Stop pretending you have a right to the gravy train – when the funds are low, they should go to those who NEED, not those who prefer not to spend their own money.
Paddy O
January 29th, 2012
12:36 am
Janet – please women. Get a grip, there is not adequate grant money, which is why the less well off need the assistance. What a delusion.
Paddy O
January 29th, 2012
12:37 am
another comment – you are utterly full of it.
Paddy O
January 29th, 2012
12:47 am
a lot of liberal pollyanna going on here. You can’t spend more than you take in. So, how do you divvy up what you take in? Provide it to those merit scholars who need it. Since education in GA is so immoral apparently, you must factor in objective evaluations – SAT/ACT. The 140 seems a little high, but it is a start. I think SS & medicare should be means tested. Far too many of you folks have entirely too high expectations, and seem to think that money grows on trees. GA MUST balance the budget.
Paddy O
January 29th, 2012
12:50 am
It would be nice if the legislature created a committee to study why STATE schools annual cost is so high. Perhaps too many folks in administration?
Really amazed
January 29th, 2012
3:04 am
This has gotten way out of control. I would have to agree with BOB, parents are being punished for working hard. Students are being punished for parents working hard. What does this teach our kids? This teaches them that you will be rewarded if you sit back, don’t challenge your self, don’t bother taking challenging classes. As far as the top 3% of each high school, all schools are NOT created equal. Some don’t even class rank! So, sick of this low income c—!!!!! Reward the best and the brightest my a–!! The gov’t wants to keep rewarding poor behavior and poor decisions. Welcome to the new AMERICA! This entitlement concept is about to start a revolution. People came to America because it was the land of opportunity. Now it is just going to be the land of mediocrity. The government has no place in the lottery program. This is not a gov’t progam!!!!!
AtlPh40
January 29th, 2012
4:17 am
Different proposal here – I’ll run for the State House against John Lewis if enough people like this:
If the recipient makes less than a C in a given course, then the HOPE money becomes a low interest loan for that course. Other courses where the recipient scored a C or higher remains scholarship money. At least there would be some penalty for going to college, taking the money and not working on a degree. This would also make people think twice about taking the HOPE if they were not serious and compel those that do to take advantage of this gift.
Concerned Teacher
January 29th, 2012
5:49 am
Here is an idea. If the students do drop out of college their first year or lose hope in the first semester, then they need to repay the scholarship money because they did not meet the expectation.
ScienceTeacher671
January 29th, 2012
6:18 am
Others have already said what I think, but I’ll reiterate anyway:
1) The lottery was enacted to fund education, not to enrich the Georgia Lottery Corporation. A certain percentage of the proceeds was supposed (but not mandated) to go for educational purposes, but the GLC has only paid the full percentage for a couple of years of its existence, and has paid huge bonuses even when it “couldn’t afford” to pay the full percentage to education, its stated purpose.
First, the General Assembly needs to mandate, not suggest, the percentage that must be paid for education, and if GLC can’t do what it’s supposed to do, get someone who can.
2) We have a large percentage of students who lose HOPE after the first year, and a large number of HOPE scholars who can’t attend academic colleges without remedial courses. What percentage of students needing remedial courses actually (a) retain HOPE and (b) finish college?
I think SAT scores should be a factor in determining HOPE eligibility. Retention rate would be improved, or at least expenses cut, if HOPE were structured either as a reimbursement program, or as a student loan that would be forgiven as long as the required grades were maintained.
3) Yes, colleges have raised tuition, quite dramatically. In part that’s because the General Assembly has cut its allotments to higher education, probably assuming that HOPE would make up the difference and people wouldn’t complain because the higher costs weren’t coming from their pocketbooks. Don’t know about the rest of Georgia, but down here in the Coastal area, all the colleges have lots of nice new buildings, too.
Some sort of cap on tuition increases would be helpful, both in maintaining HOPE and in keeping students, undergraduate and graduate, who don’t have HOPE.
cheating the system
January 29th, 2012
7:15 am
I graduated high school with a 3.3 GPA and scored a 1300 out of 1600 on the SAT. I took around 16 AP classes; my high school was on a block schedule so I was able to take 8 AP classes my junior year and as well as my senior year. Did I want to take the AP classes? eh, didn’t matter. I just took the AP classes for the extra boost that went toward your GPA. Where a “C” would have been a 2.0, it showed a 3.0 instead. Where a “B” would have been a 3.0, it showed a 4.0 on my report card. Depending on my mood/teacher’s teaching style/amount of work required for the AP classes, I would either slack off big time or try my bestest knowing that I could never receive anything lower than a 3.0, but potentially get a 5.0 for any particular class. I didn’t take any of the AP exams at the end of semesters because I didn’t want to study for those AND for my finals at the same time; too much brain power usage. So, teachers, mothers and fathers, AP classes don’t mean $#@%. They no better prepare students for college than regular or honors classes. BTW, I’ve had a number of friends that were “too smart” for the regular classes and that cheated the system by getting “A”s in every class in high school. Many of those friends went to extraordinarily good public institutions and are now currently working for GE, Home Depot (Corporate), one is working on becoming a dentist, etc.. So, basically regular/honors/AP classes don’t really amount to anything. If students even put an iota of effort into actually opening a textbook, no matter if they are white/black/hispanic/asian, they should get decent grades.
Anyway, I ended up going to Ga. State and graduated with a Management and Accounting degree in 5 years. While I was attending, Hope covered my tuition in full, subsidized my books, AND, here’s the kicker, the pell grant paid me an average of $3,000 per semester. I just looked at this extra $6k a year as Ga. State paying me to attend their crappy school. Either way, my dad made around $40k a year and was able to pay for my last semester of college even when the economy hit the fan.
So to all of you “middle class” bigots that make over $100k, all of you “i make over $140k but still can’t afford to pay my children’s tuition, room and board, and textbooks because i also pay their credit card bills, car payments, insurance payments”, like some people have suggested, work on your finances. Maybe you can find me sometime in the future because i’ve taken some personal finance classes and can give you tips on how to better manage your money. To all of the po’ black folks out there hoping to strike it rich with the lotto, thank you for paying me to attend college and keep trying, y’all will win big one day. Or y’all can just “fight the power” and stop playing altogether and really put the bigots in a pickle. Whatever y’all decide to do, doesn’t concern me since i’ve got my degree already
I’m not here to only spew venom on everyone, if you’ve been able to sit through my finely written post, i’ll send you off with advice concerning a loophole in the HOPE system…. HOPE pays for about 129 hours worth of classes. You can actually use up 128 hours and use that 1 remaining hour to cover an entire semester’s worth of classes. That should save you anywhere between $5k to $20k
… price of tuition is seriously ridiculous, and getting worse…
nelson
January 29th, 2012
7:28 am
HOPE is sending the wrong message. The message is that education funding from a sinful activity[gambling]is ok, not good at all. Education should be from the hard work and effort of the student himself. I was aghast when I saw how much money had been used from the lottery[between 3 and 4 billion dollars] That money could have gone to buy food and clothes for the gamblers family. Bob Schiffer said[and if Bob said it, I believe it] that the populace has become coarse in their lack of sevility to the high office of President. Gambling does that, people become insensitive and uncivil to others.
College Dad
January 29th, 2012
8:54 am
•Our feeling is The Hope must continue to be performance based for each student and available to every Georgia family of those hard working students.
•Our children and all of the states students should understand that through achievement, there’s reward. The reward for our high school achievers is participation in the Hope. They strive to obtain eligibility and want to assist their parents with funding of their college education.
•Some families like ours have three children and we count on the Hope.
•We have two in our state universities today. On top of the Hope, we still spend about $12K per child into the state system. If the Hope is pulled for families who’ve worked hard and find themselves positioned above the proposed bar, then we’ll have to spend about another $11K annually (current HOPE funding). So for two kids in the state university system we’re looking at $24K + $11K or $35K annually for the two. Our third child will begin college in 2013. Then the number will jump by almost another $20K for a total spend of $55K annually for our three children in the state educational system.
•336 could drive many of our students to Out of State Universities. Our children and many of our friend’s children did qualify for scholarships out of state that virtually equaled the Hope funding. But, they chose to stay in state and support the educational system in Georgia.
•I’ve heard several of our state officials mention the Hope in the same sentence as “entitlement”. The Hope has never been a handout or is guaranteed for every student. You have to work.
•When the HOPE Scholarship changed last year, many high school students who worked hard to attain the required 3.0 GPA lost the scholarship when the requirement jumped to 3.7 and college students were affected by their requirement jumping from 3.0 to 3.3.
•As parents, we should all strive to find a way to fund our children’s education and not allow them to start their professional lives with massive loans strapped to their back. That’s immense pressure on a 22 year old who’s trying to build a future for their selves.
•It’s about goals and hard work and that prepares them for the future in a very competitive world.
MiltonMan
January 29th, 2012
8:55 am
Jason Carter = will be a failure just like his grandfather & it is starting to sound like he is more moronic.
“First, the governor’s budget calls for the HOPE programs to pay out more that they take in — again”
Is Jason’s Deli really this stupid??? He is a democrat – the tax & spend party
“In addition, the current plan fails the hard-working, high-achieving students who depend on HOPE, and the plan ultimately harms our state’s economy.”
Fails hard working students??? Why don’t you come up here to North Fulton/East Cobb & tell that to the evil rich students who comprise the best high schools in this state. Please tell that to our rich little son who is according to your stupidity “not hard working” yet was able to get into dental school at MCOG.
This might fly well in the dump known as DeKalb (remind us how great the schools there are Jason)
joeybiten
January 29th, 2012
9:00 am
Enter your comments here
a reader
January 29th, 2012
9:01 am
Probably too far down in the comments to be seen but ….
If you keep changing the rules will you at least start grandfathering the program? Current seniors / college students should at least be playing by the rules as passed last year – don’t change the game mid-way, again. Please.
WRT private schools and GPA: my daughter’s class GPA has 56% with a 3.5 or over, but this needs to be qualified: a) this is note a HOPE GPA, in that it includes all classes, academic and non-academic, and b) this is not a HOPE GPA, in that AP “A” grades are given the 0.5 bump (which HOPE doesn’t do). So honestly, I doubt that this school is bumping grades up for HOPE. Given the average ACT and SAT scores, I just think the kids work hard and study hard.
And most of the students in her school don’t stay in GA. Looking at the list of colleges from last year’s graduating class, while a fair number go to GA Tech or UGA, most of the class appear to go out of state. But if you want to reward the best and brightest so they stay, don’t exclude the best and brightest who come froms high schools with track records of good college performance.
MannyT
January 29th, 2012
9:04 am
The senator said Our plan also reforms the Miller Scholarship to provide it to the top 3 percent of every high school, regardless of income. The best and brightest from every Georgia community would get a full scholarship, and the Miller Scholars would be spread throughout the University System, making it a truly statewide program
Take this basic concept and make it the HOPE program. Adjust the percentage based on what the state can afford. (Top 3% for class of 2012. If economy gets better, it’s top 5% for class of 2013.) If you lose it in college due to low grades, you don’t get it back.
All this blog chatter is on things to protect your interests. HOPE is rapidly running out of money. We come up with a way to help across constituencies or HOPE will go away for ALL.
joeybiten
January 29th, 2012
9:05 am
all them rich people got thems money illegally…and everyone making over $60K is real rich. thats why all of them should be exempted from hope…i also think their gas and electric and water and trash and just everything should cost them more cause ther rich not like us poor people.
obama and the democrats will give us everything we need…
D in ATL
January 29th, 2012
9:16 am
Why don’t the numbers 5-2-9 appear anywhere in the blog posting or comments? You respond to your positive pregnancy test (shock, glee, horror, whatever), you coo over the ultrasound, you struggle through labor (or provide support), and IF you aspire for this child to go to college, go to http://www.path2college529.com and contribute a little bit every month for the next 196 months.
Dee
January 29th, 2012
9:22 am
Based on the comments regarding HOPE, is Warren Buffet the only rich person who wants to pay his fair share in this country? Because the folks in Georgia don’t believe they should pay for anything if there is no benefit to them…Two thousand years ago Jesus said, “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:25 NIV)
Justwondering
January 29th, 2012
9:24 am
College Dad and others
Did you save for college or did you presume HOPE would be there? Did you even plan for the contigency that your child might need or want better than a Ga state school? In more than 40 other states, there is no Hope type program and kids still go to college.
I believe that GA families have used the existence of Hope as an excuse not to save.
apm
January 29th, 2012
9:24 am
Let me see if I understand this, if a student from a government designated “wealthy” family takes care of their responsibility to study hard and make good enough grades to qualify for HOPE they will be punished because their parents worked hard to make enough to be government designated “wealty”? Is not this another example of our governments punishing hard work?
Also, do not these same government designated “wealthy” people already pay more in state taxes that fund these state institutions of “higher learning”?
bootney farnsworth
January 29th, 2012
9:32 am
when, oh when, will this ongoing nightmare called the Carters go away?
please stick to the many good humanitarian works you do, but leave the thinking to responsible adults.
bootney farnsworth
January 29th, 2012
9:37 am
@ just
not sure where you’ve been the last four years, but this little thing called the economy tanked. many people lost jobs, had incomes cut, and had expenses blow through the roof.
note: gas is up nearly .50 in the last month alone.
more people than you probably realise have had to make choices
like food or the kid’s college savings.
real life is messy. and 8 years of Bush and 3+ of Obama have
created the worst mess since the depression
Traci
January 29th, 2012
9:39 am
If the income cap and the change in the Zell Miller requirements are passed, when would they go into effect? Fall Semester 2012? Any change that is instituted immediately and effective in the upcoming school year is absolutely cruel. You’ve got to give parents and students a chance to figure out how they are going to make up any loss in benefits. Plus, the Lottery Board and the Universities can’t institute changes that quickly.
Re. the comment that those who exceed the income cap don’t know how to manage their money, that’s the flaw with an income cap. The assumption is that you’ve always been making that level of income. I was laid off in 2008, started my own business in 2009. My income was $12,000 in 2009, $66,000 in 2010, and will probably exceed the cap in 2011 (although what’s the cap based on? Gross income, adjustable gross? Is it just salary or does it include investment income (think Mitt Romney)?) My point is the cap is arbitrary and doesn’t mean that people can pull $7-8,000 out of the air. That is why people need more than a few months to make up the loss of benefits. Or there needs to be a graduated decline in benefits or students currently in college should be exempt from these changes,
It appears this is going to become an annual ritual…what bandaid can we put on HOPE this legislative session?. Parents and students will have to pray the merit requirements don’t become more demanding or the income cap doesn’t drop (dream on). And if their benefits do drop or disappear, they’ll have about 7 months to scramble to make up the difference.
We need a real leader who will take on the overhaul of the HOPE scholarship program so that it is a long-running, viable program. Someone who will take a good hard look at the program, define its purpose (merit-, income-based, or both), determine how to fund it for the long-haul, and set out guidelines that parents can depend on whether their child is 7 or 17.
bootney farnsworth
January 29th, 2012
9:41 am
if we’re really gonna go all Darwin about this, the we should be
putting a priority on educating the children of $200,000 households
and above.
they’re the ones most likely to actually graduate, get jobs, and
maybe someday create jobs for somebody else
South Ga Administrator
January 29th, 2012
9:43 am
Between @Lee, @FCS, @William Casey, @Bootney Farneworth, @em, and a few others here I think we could develop a working solution for HOPE. I have long touted the benefits of a semester-by-semester reimbursement for a student earning above a 3.0. Reimbursement, first must be a capped amount. This would hopefully move students into selecting one of the other 35 University of Georgia system colleges located around the state. Students could still earn a degree at a cost which in most incidences would be cheaper than UGA or GT. A student could still attend UGA, however they would be responsible for the cost over the capped amount. After all, when someone else is paying for your education…. Second, the reimbursement would be scaled to the 3.0 – 4.0 GPA per each semester. A student earning a 4.0 at the end of a semester would receive 100% reimbursement (up to the cap). Earn a 3.9…student receives a slightly smaller percentage, down to a student earning a 3.0 receiving the smallest reimbursement. No reimbursement(s) would be paid out for remedial courses. this plan would end the concerns of inflated high school grades, SAT scores, and even the students partying on the states dime.