Most kids could get less HOPE so a few can get more. Seems unfair to me.

The celebrating might  be less once high school grads see their HOPE amounts. (AJC/file photo)

The celebrating might be less once high school grads see their HOPE amounts. (AJC/file photo)

The luster of a HOPE Scholarship — once a full tuition ride to public colleges for Georgia high school graduates with a B average — may dim a bit more this year.

To recap how we came to this depressing situation: Faced with a money crunch, Gov. Nathan Deal last year reduced HOPE for all but top high school students, those who graduated with a 3.7 or higher GPA  combined with a minimum score of 1200 on the math and reading portions of the SAT test or a 26 composite score on the ACT.

And he dubbed that new elite scholarship the  Zell Miller Scholarship.

It turns out that more kids qualified for the Zell Miller Scholarship than had been expected, so the regular HOPE Scholars — which I call HOPE Lite –  could see their financial awards shrink even further than predicted over the next several years.

In stark terms, to fully fund the Miller-level scholars, the state could end up plundering the HOPE Lite coffers.

I still have the same complaint about the two tiers of HOPE that the governor and Legislature created.

The qualifications for the full HOPE/Zell Miller Scholarship rest solely on high school performance. So, teens who graduated from the state’s highest performing high schools and even achieved a perfect score on the SAT cannot get full HOPE if their grade point average was not 3.7.

Students who took 11 AP classes and attended highly competitive high schools but ended up with a 3.6 GPA because of their grueling course loads are out of luck. And that will not change even if those students are physics majors at Tech and maintain a 4.0 GPA there.

Seems unfair to me. What do you think?

According to the AJC:

The Georgia Student Finance Commission, which oversees both scholarships, already has seen thousands more students qualify this year for the Zell Miller Scholarship than it had anticipated. Commission President Tim Connell said the agency may have to borrow against future revenue from the Georgia Lottery to cover the cost. That, in turn, will only further exacerbate HOPE’s financial woes.

Additionally, despite conservative cost estimates from commission officials, Deal has asked lawmakers to allot millions of dollars less than what will likely be needed. Deal’s request comes as uncertainty lingers about how many students will be eligible for the money, and how much they will receive. It has some lawmakers questioning whether either program can survive without drastic changes and college freshmen wondering if the scholarships they receive will still exist by their senior year.

All are trying to understand the ramifications of last year’s reforms, when a reduced HOPE scholarship was put into place to prevent the program from going broke. At the same time, Deal unveiled the Zell Miller Scholarship, named for the former governor who created HOPE nearly 20 years ago.

The new program promised full tuition to the state’s most accomplished students. In contrast, HOPE students receive about $500 less each semester than Zell Miller scholars, depending on the campus they attend.

The gap between the payouts to students will widen in the next few years, because of other reforms lawmakers also passed last year. Among them, the HOPE program starting in two years will no longer be able to dip into reserves to supplement Georgia Lottery revenue, which pays for both scholarships as well as pre-kindergarten programs statewide. Those reserves have kept HOPE afloat.

“HOPE is going to get worse before it gets any better,” said Sen. Buddy Carter, R-Pooler, chairman of the state Senate’s higher education committee.

100 comments Add your comment

Shar

January 22nd, 2012
1:20 pm

Enormously unfair and utterly ill-advised, as usual.

Paul Murphy

January 22nd, 2012
1:26 pm

I completely agree with you Maureen, but we all know that these scholarships are not based on true merit. To do so would require us to confront the dirty little secret that some schools are “better” than others, and some students are “better” than others. To your point, a 3.7 GPA and top 3% class standing from “Cow County High School” may not equate to a 3.5 GPA, top 10% class standing from an elite private school. The easy way to normalize for the academic rigor of various schools would be utilization of standardized test scores. But we all know the common complaints associated with standardized tests. So the Communists will win this argument, and scores of academically inferior students will be awarded scholarships while many academically gifted students will be left to fend for themselves. But this is the easy way out – we won’t have to confront the inconvenient truth.

that's goofy

January 22nd, 2012
1:29 pm

smart students will take easier classes – skip the bid for valedictorian and receive full Hope. If college/Hope is the goal – play the game to win.

Cobb Family

January 22nd, 2012
1:32 pm

What happened to the deal with the lottery????? That was supposed to be strictly for funding the hope stuff and now that the normal political bull has started they all have a hand in taking the money from the kids that it was for to start with. HOW COME WE CANT GET AN HONEST PERSON IN OFFICE TO MAKE SURE OUR KIDS GET A FAIR CHANCE AT GOING TO SCHOOL????

nelson

January 22nd, 2012
1:36 pm

I do not see any state having to finance higher education for any student. That is the responsibility of the student and his family. Now I do see financial incentives for students who plan to go to work for the one giving the incentive. The Army will finance a 4 year education for a student who plans to serve his country. Let us find the initiative to succeed.

dre

January 22nd, 2012
2:45 pm

Darn, I was hoping for a few more days of coverage of the epoxy failure on the 17th street bridge. That was out on AJC.com for like three days, it was sooooo interesting.

College HOPE

January 22nd, 2012
2:45 pm

HOPE should be for college students not high school students. Therefore, award HOPE based on their FRESHMAN year performance. This will eliminate school and student inequalities.

Prof

January 22nd, 2012
2:45 pm

“Thousands more students qualify this year for the Zell Miller Scholarship than it had anticipated.” Why was this projected number set too low? Did those thousands game the system by taking easier courses, as “that’s goofy” suggests? Receive inflated high school grades? Are there simply larger numbers of students who wish to go to college?

And should we return to the earlier income cap for applicants’ families? Remove pre-K funding?

HOPE’s original rationale was that it would motivate our best high school graduates to go to college in Georgia. Maybe there weren’t enough preventative measures built into HOPE in the first place against possible ways to cheat…. ways that our ingenious youth have since devised, and that now could be forestalled through some legislative tinkering with the rules. But keep the requirement for a minimum SAT score as the first line of defense against possible inflation of high school grades!

gojackets

January 22nd, 2012
2:49 pm

nelson,

The point of HOPE isn’t welfare; it’s to keep bright students in Georgia so that they can contribute to the local economy. In a sense, many of these kids are “going to work” for Georgia. If you start chipping away at HOPE, schools in other states will be able to cherry pick the best kids here that much more easily, and Georgia will lose those kids forever.

Now, if HOPE is to stay in the black but also keep good kids instate, they should raise the requirements to get it, not cut the payout. No SAT requirement for HOPE is just ridiculous.

Craig

January 22nd, 2012
2:53 pm

None of these issues address the core problem of college financing – out of control costs. By infusing additional millions (hundreds of ‘em) of HOPE dollars into the collegiate “economy”, we have simply enabled schools to continue raising tuition with little or no accountability as to how effectively those dollars are being spent. These scholarships are doing as much to artificially inflate tuition as they are to help families pay those college bills. This phenomenon occurs again and again in financial transactions. When my daughter needed braces, the first thing they wanted to know is whether I had any available insurance coverage. I figured out why this was relevant when we took my second daughter a year later. Because they knew we had exhausted the limited coverage in our plan, they offered to discount the second daughter’s treatment by hundreds of dollars. How could they afford to do this? Because their initial pricing was adjusted simply to rake in whatever insurance dollars I had at my disposal. In other words, my insurance did nothing to save me money – the orthodontist simply put it into her pocket (probably to fund her kid’s Ivy League education). Car dealers do the same thing when they want to know how you are going to pay for the car before they talk about pricing. If you insist on getting $5,000 for your trade-in when the dealer knows it’s worth only $3,000, that $2,000 difference will be built into the price of your new vehicle.

Essentially, universities have simply tapped into the HOPE program as an additional source of revenue, allowing them to offer ridiculously obscure degrees and coursework in addition to building lavish student-life centers and recreational facilities, and other amenities that have nothing to do with preparing students for the future (other than to perpetuate a self-indulgent mindset). This problem is a microcosm of the larger debate we are having about our government. We have promised ourselves (and our students) benefits and amenities we simply can not afford. In short, we don’t have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.

MB

January 22nd, 2012
3:19 pm

It is completely out of whack if the purpose is to keep the best and brightest in Georgia. WHY are they surprised most are at UGA and GT if that’s the intent; wouldn’t that be where those students would likely prefer to be – especially with transfers included?

Zell requirements are already punitive to students at the most rigorous high schools; eliminating the SAT requirement and having the top 3% of every school qualify is one of the most ridiculous ideas to come out of that group. If they want an assessment of the discrepancies in grading and rigor, I challenge them to give the same test to the student at the 3% cut line at say, Dougherty High, and to the student just below the 25% (even 50%) cut line at Northview High. My guess is the NHS student’s score would trample the DHS student on the test.

Leave the SAT requirement and add it to the valedictorian and salutatorian requirement – if there’s not grade inflation, why should the V and S of any school not meet that standard?

For that matter, why should the V or S of a school with 8 graduates qualify when Maureen’s student who took 11 APs and ended up with a 3.69 NOT qualify? As gojackets notes, that kid will likely qualify for an out-of-state education at the same expense as HOPE Lite and may never return to GA.

Bashing Hope from Good Mom

January 22nd, 2012
3:22 pm

Bashing Hope scholarship decisions is similar to blaming the victim. Few dollars mean cuts the real pervert in this debacled that needs to be addressed is to identify and solve and cause, not treat the symptoms.

The cause of the illness is that college costs have skyrocketed for no good reasons. They are being jacked up just because they can jack them up. That needs to stop, especially in State schools. The second culprit is the bad public schools. It shouldn’t matter from which high school you graduated, a B should mean a B should mean a B. No inflated grades.

Every public school should be a good one. Our democracy depends on it.

Make the schools better by hiring real, qualified teachers and reduce class size.
Make a public college affordable for everyone.

To Nelson from Good Mom

January 22nd, 2012
3:27 pm

Nelson says “The Army will finance a 4 year education for a student who plans to serve his country. Let us find the initiative to succeed.”

Nelson, It is a horrible day on planet earth when one’s only option to go to college is to literally put your life at risk.

The idea that America has an “all-volunteer” armed forces is a crock of you know what.

It is always a rich man’s war but it’s always a poor man’s fight.

Voice of Reason

January 22nd, 2012
3:30 pm

This isn’t rocket science either. The arguments being made regarding high school eligibility requirements, in addition to the requirements needed to maintain the HOPE should be raised. 3.0 GPA?……come on. Raise that minimum standard and lets see what happens.

Some good points made regarding the compare and contrast between high schools. The same could also be said about the state colleges/universities also. A 3.0 at XYZ university certainly isn’t the same at ALL schools (too many variables), but obviously the powers that be are clueless when it comes to seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

One hates to bring politics into this mess, but the smell coming out of the capitol is atrocious.

Truth in Moderation

January 22nd, 2012
3:44 pm

The article fails to mention that home schoolers will, once again, be shut out of the Hope Scholarship. They will require higher standards than the Zell Miller scholarship in order to qualify. And, they will have an SAT requirement. Home school organizations are currently fighting this. In my opinion, ONLY HOME SCHOOLERS SHOULD QUALIFY FOR HOPE. They have educated their children AT NO COST TO THE STATE! Plus, they have contributed tax dollars to educate other’s children. As a “thank you” for their positive contributions to the welfare of the State, their children should be rewarded with a scholarship based on academic achievement. Any leftover money could be used to provide public school teacher grants. A teacher would submit a grant application requesting funds for their class for specific projects/needs. The school board (elected officials) would select the most worthy applications and award grants according to availability.

On another topic……
Were you aware that a Georgia judge has subpoenaed President Obama to appear in court January 26, 1012 to prove or disprove his eligibility to appear on the Georgia ballot as a presidential candidate?????? Georgia has 16 electoral votes.

The President’s lawyers FILED A MOTION TO QUASH THE SUBPOENA, but the judge DENIED THE MOTION!
This is BIG NEWS! The MSM is giving it a blackout.
http://www.art2superpac.com/UserFiles/file/Farrar-Welden-Swensson-PowellvObama,OrderonMotiontoQuashSubpoenas,GeorgiaBallotChallenge.pdf

http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/judge-rejects-obama-demand-to-quash-subpoena/

Ashley

January 22nd, 2012
3:59 pm

In what realm of the universe does a student get a scholarship on just gpa alone? A 3.0/80 without an SAT or ACT score is ludricrous. We all know about grade-inflation and other manipulative ways to booster someones gpa. Extra-curriculum activities should be part of the process when awarding scholarships , along with the taking of accelerated or honor courses. That way only the best and the brightest would receive HOPE. Every child should have the right to attend college, but to get accepted, there needs to be a greater body of work and having a 80 average with no other merits is just unacceptable.

Fed Up

January 22nd, 2012
4:00 pm

I know, let’s inflate high school grades some more, so that more kids can qualify!

Lee

January 22nd, 2012
4:03 pm

Maureen laments about “most kids getting less HOPE so a few can get more”, but overlooks one of the reasons we are in this shape is that a large percentage of kids were going to school on inflated grades only to flunk out and lose HOPE within a year. If memory serves me correctly, the percentage of students that lost HOPE in the first year was around 45-50%.

Once again, make HOPE a REIMBURSEMENT program and watch those casual go-to-college-for-a-year-and-flunk-out students either get with the program or not attend.

The second issue with HOPE is that nobody had skin in the game. Colleges were free to raise tuition and nobody paid attention because HOPE was footing the bill. It was the same effect Medicare and Insurance had on healthcare costs.

Ian

January 22nd, 2012
4:10 pm

HOPE will fail if anything other than a standard measurement is used. Tie it to GPA and you get kids taking empty courses, making them unprepared for college. They then go on to fail and waste HOPE funds. TIE it to SAT only and you get students who will succeed in college and the funds won’t be poured down a sewer.

Gail

January 22nd, 2012
4:14 pm

With the HOPE scholarship apparently on a path to dwindle each year, we will definitely look at private and out of state colleges for my son who is a 9th grader. With my oldest two children I reasoned that financial aid offered by an out of state college wasn’t guaranteed for all four years so we chose for them to stay in-state. At that time the HOPE scholarship had usually “Grandfathered” current students when changes were made.
I also have a HS senior and wish we had looked at out of state colleges to see how their financial aid compared to the colleges she looked at in Georgia. Dumb on my part.
As Craig said, the root cause of this HOPE funding problem is out of control costs. This was all thanks to the BOR not controlling the USG spending. Thankfully Hank Huckaby seems to be trying to reign it in but it may be too little too late for the children who were born the year (1993) the HOPE scholarship was created by Zell Miller.

Two Cents

January 22nd, 2012
4:32 pm

Another great big thank you to the Repugnants for their determination that NO ONE but the elite and rich get any assistance because only those are entitled to a college degree ot assistance in being equipped to find a good job and making sure NO jobs are available except for college grads. Way to go Repugnants.

drew (former teacher)

January 22nd, 2012
4:39 pm

Craig: Your comments are dead on! How ironic that the biggest culprit in the increasing cost of a college education is………. the Hope scholarship!

+++++

College HOPE says: “HOPE should be for college students not high school students. Therefore, award HOPE based on their FRESHMAN year performance. This will eliminate school and student inequalities.”

That’s a great idea, and it WOULD eliminate grade inflation. But with college costs artificially inflated by Hope, it would also shut out many of those of limited means, as they might not be able to finance that freshman year. Hope should adopt a “needs based” component.

+++++

Truth in Moderation says: “In my opinion, ONLY HOME SCHOOLERS SHOULD QUALIFY FOR HOPE.”

BWAHHHHHHHH! Truth…you’re a hoot! And by the way, please, take your political blather back over to Jay’s blog!

teacher&mom

January 22nd, 2012
4:42 pm

“ONLY HOME SCHOOLERS SHOULD QUALIFY FOR HOPE. They have educated their children AT NO COST TO THE STATE! ”

If we were to go along with that line of thinking, then only those who purchase lottery tickets should be eligible for HOPE.

MB

January 22nd, 2012
4:42 pm

@Gail It was already too late for the majority of students born in 1993. Those who graduated, like my son, in 2011 had the rules changed in the spring of their senior year – too late to consider what an out-of-state college might offer compared to HOPE Lite at UGA or Tech, to work a bit harder senior year for the 90 rather than 89, or decide not to take the class that was very rigorous (but for which there were few As).

Also of note is the fact that students who qualify for HOPE Lite are required to take a minimum of 15 credit hours at UGA and Tech to get the “full 90%.” My son’s advisor recommended that, with two science classes with labs in his spring schedule and a busy club sport calendar and volunteer requirements, he consider only taking 12 or 13 hours. His tuition is still $3641 but HOPE Lite pays only $2757 – NOT 90%! (Plus the $450 “institutional fee” for UGA, in addition to the many other fees and mandatory freshman housing and meal plan, means his cost per semester paid to UGA is $8684. That’s 31% of expenses covered for a freshman on HOPE Lite, not including books, laptop, etc.

My older son’s class (2008) had guaranteed four-year tuition, full fee coverage and a book stipend. There were governor’s scholarships for STAR students and valedictorians. (Of course, he chose to go out of state so we didn’t realize those benefits.) How precipitously the support of scholars in Georgia has fallen…

William Casey

January 22nd, 2012
4:50 pm

I agree with LEE’s 4:03 post that HOPE should be a reimbursement program for the freshman year. The amount of HOPE money squandered on subsidized partying in the past twenty years could easily fund “Full HOPE” for all real students today.

MannyT

January 22nd, 2012
5:06 pm

Which unfair do we choose?

When HOPE started, it had an income cap. Now it does not. Ultimately less resources for poorer students.

At one point, there was no SAT requirement. There is a strong correllation between income and SAT scores.

Some school districts push out a lot more high grades than others. Is there a HOPE reward for grade inflation? See GPA by district pdf OR GPA by school pdf

Is there a penalty for poor stewardship of the program? Who pays it? Not the adults that make the rules.
(176K students on HOPE in 2011-12, which is the smallest number since 2000-01)

If you want to make the awards more equitable to all of the better students in the state, you award a HOPE scholarship to the top X% of HS seniors at each school. Each year the X% is based on what the state can afford. Even if my school has grade inflation, it should cancel itself out within a school. If my rural HS doesn’t do well on the SAT, we still get our X%…because if we are honest, the best student in a rural area is more likely to go back home and help the community & economy than a metro Atlanta student is to move to a rural GA town.

catlady

January 22nd, 2012
5:07 pm

I’d like to see ALL “scholars” be required to have a 1200 math and reading SAT for any HOPE in 4 year public colleges. After all, if you are poorly prepared, you have little “hope” of graduating. Let’s say 1000 SAT for 2 year schools and vo-techs (since they are trying to become COC SACS accredited, instead of COE). Those without the grades and scores would be eligible for a HOPE loan to cover the first 30 hours, to be forgiven if the grade is reached.

It is patently stupid to have kids with a 4.0 who can only muster an 800 on the math/rdg portion of the SAT. Yet, you can be sure that happens. These kids are NOT AT ALL ready for the rigors of college. No sense in wasting money (both lottery funded as well as taxpayer funded) on people who are not ready to do the work.

We also need to put the brakes on dropping classes. It is a waste of money to allow kids to bail out of classes they have determined to be detrimental to their GPA. Perhaps a limit of 2 drops per student per degree, or something.

mountain man

January 22nd, 2012
5:08 pm

“It turns out that more kids qualified for the Zell Miller Scholarship than had been expected”

Most likely as a result of grade inflation in high school to qualify everyone for hope. They should add a minimum SAT complonent to the HOPE scholarship to balance the budget. HOPE was intended to pay for the best students to attend college, regardless of financial conditions of the parents. There are plenty of “need-based” scholarships out there.

catlady

January 22nd, 2012
5:10 pm

Manny, did you know there was a NEGATIVE income cap in the beginning? A cap that persisted after the top cap was extended and then taken off? In the beginning, if you got Pell, you did not get HOPE. It was NOT designed for poor kids at all.

catlady

January 22nd, 2012
5:14 pm

(Poor kids’ families don’t vote as much as middle and upper income parents.)

graysonmom

January 22nd, 2012
5:16 pm

On a trip to a well known out of state university just across the border, ALL of the potential students in our group were from metro Atlanta. Why risk not knowing what little, if any, HOPE is in your future?
I would like to see a SAT/ACT requirement to counteract the grade inflation we all know exists. Also, why not drop the 3.0 in college requirement to 2.5 or so for the students at Ga Tech majoring in the degrees that are difficult and are in fields where there will be jobs in the future?

mountain man

January 22nd, 2012
5:18 pm

“(Poor kids’ families don’t vote as much as middle and upper income parents.)”

IF that is true, then they deserve what they get. If you don’t vote, don’t complain about the people who get elected.

mountain man

January 22nd, 2012
5:23 pm

Another thing to consider making the HOPE scholarship a fixed dollar amount. That would keep the universities from recklessly increasing their tuitions since it is paid by HOPE. Then the student can decide if they want to supplement to go to UGA or choose a cheaper school.

MB

January 22nd, 2012
5:44 pm

@ MannyT An even more interesting document would be the HOPE retention rate – specifically, what percentage of students (by high school AND by college) retain HOPE? When you see that x% of students from HS A keep HOPE at GT but y % of students from HS B lose HOPE at GT, you get a feel for the rate of grade inflation. You couldn’t compare with just HOPE retention rates – sorry, but comparing students from Dougherty High who maintain grades at Albany State to Brookwood students at GT would not be a valid point of reference.

Also, do you not want students from rural areas to get a rigorous education? Catlady suggestion – having students who don’t demonstrate college readiness with SAT scores go to junior colleges first – could lead to better results for rural students. (BTW, I am a product of a southern rural GA school system who moved to metro ATL 33 years ago.) Discouraging grade inflation would hopefully improve the rigor of all high schools and therefore improve the quality of our college students.

MB

January 22nd, 2012
5:53 pm

@Maureen Exactly how do they want to change the way technical college HOPE is administered? That isn’t clear at all in the (print) article – are they trying to make more students eligible for technical college HOPE? If 4200 students lost HOPE trying to maintain a 3.0 in technical college, do we really want them subsidized to graduate to work as LPNs, repair our cars, or wire our houses? The allusion to the fact that they may be older and supporting their own families – how is that germane? (That they may be more likely to vote?)

Janet

January 22nd, 2012
5:56 pm

Growing up in a small applachian town, I know from experience that not all high schools and their respective “honors/ap courses” are created equal. My husband and I have this conversation all the time about our 4 and 6 year olds and whether we think it’s better to be an okay student in a top notch challenging school or Top of the class in a mediocre school. Big Fish in little pond vs Little Fish in big pond scenario.

I have always contended that as far as life skills and overall life success, you are much better off to be an okay student in a top notch high school. I have always thought it better to surround yourself with smart people rather then be the smartest person in the room. But as for getting into college and the hope of having any help paying for it, you would be wiser to be enrolled and do well in a mediocre, middle of the road school with less challenges. This idea is so unbelievably sad to me. The fact that best option we have as Non Wealthy parents is to encourage less challenging curriculum.

Not sure how true this is… but a friend of mine’s daughter has a 4.1 GPA with high AP courses, but due to the high number of kids from her particular school (John’s Creek) with even higher GPAs, she will likely not get the Hope. I have to wonder, if your kid is better than average but not an amazing student, does it even make sense to even try to get into a top notch public school? This weighs heavily on my mind as our home is currently on the market as we prepare to move to South Forsyth County (Big Creek area) for better schools.

Hope in trouble again. - City-Data Forum

January 22nd, 2012
6:37 pm

[...] More on this… Most kids could get less HOPE so a few can get more. Seems unfair to me. | Get Schooled [...]

MannyT

January 22nd, 2012
6:48 pm

The point of my January 22nd 5:06 pm post was to highlight there are several ways to look at “unfair”

I believe the top X% within a school is the closest to fair across the board.

MannyT

January 22nd, 2012
6:53 pm

@catlady

I STRONGLY disagree with I’d like to see ALL “scholars” be required to have a 1200 math and reading SAT for any HOPE in 4 year public colleges. See below

But I do agree that It is patently stupid to have kids with a 4.0 who can only muster an 800 on the math/rdg portion of the SAT. This is a problem that we must address within our schools. However, college admissions offices do filter these students. I doubt they get into the better schools even with HOPE.

You can be in the top 25% of GA SAT scores and be just below a 1200 (Math + Critical Reading) in GA. Notice in Table 5 that GA top 25% is exactly 50 points behind the national top 25% (which would still be 30 points below the 1200 SAT score.)

Over 38% of diploma students were HOPE eligible in 2010 (same link in prior post. Go to last line of pdf) Are you trying to put more value on the SAT than the education? Many schools have the majority of their diploma students eligible for HOPE. You offset the grade inflation with a percentage instead of penalizing a school that grades tougher.

I want the best students you have in an area (rural or urban) to get opportunity. If the top X% in a school don’t meet the SAT requirement, I’d rather take a chance on a kid with better grades over 4 years of high school than another kids in the same school that has a GPA 0.5 points lower but 50 more points on the SAT. The high stakes testing message in the top levels of HOPE has a very different sound than the one I see when we talk about teacher pay & student performance (which is a conversation for a separate blog topic.) Which test has a higher risk/reward profile, the SAT or the CRCT? If you need to include SAT, which I am against, use a sliding scale–so better grades allow you a lower SAT score to be HOPE eligible.

Note–The top X% should have a minimum requirement of a B average, but that percentage is more likely to raise the GPA requirement for HOPE.

MannyT

January 22nd, 2012
7:30 pm

@Catlady
On the poor kid comment, my point is that the absence of any income cap makes more people eligible. More eligible means the money runs out faster so fewer get it. Newer requirements (like SAT requirements) tend to work against the economically disadvantaged.

@MB
Because of funding, we DO compare “students from Dougherty High who maintain grades at Albany State to Brookwood students at GT ” Not saying they are the same educationally, but the money gets allocated to both if HOPE eligible. The money goes out regardless of which GA high school the student attended…even if the Brookwood kid goes to Albany State & the Dougherty kid goes to Tech ;-)

On the HOPE retention issue, I think it’s very messy. In a state business perspective, I would want to make HOPE a one shot deal. If you lose it, it doesn’t come back. Personally, I would like people to have another chance, but if you cannot afford the current numbers, it seems problematic to give students extra opportunities to get it back.

That said, I would allow HOPE to pay for remediation at the start of college. There would be some details to limit the total HOPE cost to the state and flag the K-12 system. Too many remedial HOPE scholars will cost the system in the future.

The College Hope from Good Mom

January 22nd, 2012
7:52 pm

College Hope, do you ever just listen to yourself talk? Do you ever listen to what anyone else has to say and think about it for a nanosecond?

You wrote “HOPE should be for college students not high school students. Therefore, award HOPE based on their FRESHMAN year performance. This will eliminate school and student inequalities.”

Eliminate student inequalities? It will CAUSE student inequalities. The Hope Scholarship was created so that students had a better chance of going to college because they could better afford college. If you wait until AFTER they get there to determine who makes the grade, then those students who most need the scholarship won’t get it? You see?

Now the best way for the elite and the privileged to hold down wages and keep everyone poor to the benefit of the elite is to prevent poor people from getting an education.

Are you rich, College Hope? are you trying to make it impossible for poor folks to have a chance at a decent life or are you so blind that you believe in shooting yourself in the foot?

I understand why vulgar rich people want to maintain their greed but what I can never fathom is why the middle class and the poor want to help the rich get richer.

In our university we had to register in the huge arena. Everyone who had a student loan had to stand in this looooong student loan deferment line. I went to a State school and tuition was absolutely cheap compared to today but yet here were thousands of students waiting in a two hour line to get their $1,000 per semester tuition cost deferred….and then they would walk out to their ten year old beat up Toyota…with a Reagan sticker on it.

*sigh*

The Prof from Good Mom

January 22nd, 2012
7:59 pm

Prof you ask “Are there simply larger numbers of students who wish to go to college?”

Of course there are more students wanting to go to college…because when they get out of high school there are no jobs to have to earn a living and the few jobs that are available are being sought after by those with college degrees.

catlady

January 22nd, 2012
8:02 pm

Manny, I certainly agree with you (and so does the research). In fact, something like 75 percent of those getting HOPE are from the highest income levels. I wish I could rememer the exact percentages and percentiles of parental income.

The Craig from Good Mom

January 22nd, 2012
8:03 pm

Craig, did someone slip a stupid pill in your bowl of cereal this morning?

You are blaming the Hope scholarship for rising college costs. Dear Craig, let me give you the 411. The Hope Scholarship is in Georgia, not other states.

The cost of college in other states has risen dramatically — it’s out of control.

So if your theory is correct, that Hope raised the cost of tuition, then the tuition would only be more expensive in Georgia and of course that is not the case.

College tuition is out of control because our government is corrupt and is allowing it to be out of control. If we can put a salary cap on football players, surely we can put a tuition cap on college tuition at State funded schools.

catlady

January 22nd, 2012
8:15 pm

And an even higher percentage of those who KEEP HOPE are from those highest income levels.

bilbo799

January 22nd, 2012
8:17 pm

HOPE is far too easy to get. Having someone else pay for college is a privilege and should be earned with high grades and high standardized test scores.

catlady

January 22nd, 2012
8:18 pm

Once again, I have “already said that” yet the supposed first cut of the “duplicate post” has not posted.

Truth in Moderation

January 22nd, 2012
8:26 pm

Let’s get rid of the lottery. The people that run them always get their guaranteed share of the profits; it is the money for the scholarships that shrinks if lottery business falls off. We should be firing any lottery corp. that isn’t producing enough scholarship money. WHY KEEP THEM IN BUSINESS? At the very least, there should be a new round of bids for a better cut of the profits. WHY ISN’T THERE?

Another reason to get rid of the lottery is that they are the reason for tuition inflation. IN A RECESSION/DEPRESSION, PRICES SHOULD BE GOING DOWN. Aren’t foreclosed houses selling for %50 off right now? The lottery money creates a false economy for tuition. If it went away, school applications would dramatically drop. Colleges would have to lower tuition or go out of business. Also, prior to the lottery, most schools had 501c3 scholarships funded by donations to the schools themselves. WHERE HAS THAT MONEY GONE? In the old system, colleges picked the best students and funded the talent that needed it. There was less wasted money on students who really didn’t qualify. The lottery isn’t free. Taxpayers pick up the tab on running it and filling in the shortfalls.

Atlanta Mom

January 22nd, 2012
8:33 pm

“It turns out that more kids qualified for the Zell Miller Scholarship than had been expected”
No kidding. About 83% more. How can anyone make any intelligent changes if those are the best estimates the governor can come up with?

Atlanta Mom

January 22nd, 2012
8:37 pm

HOPE as intially envisioned was not for all the best and brightest. It was for bright kids from families with incomes less than $60,000.
Seems like we should revisit that proposal. I have a “Zell Miller Scholar”. I would be disappointed to have to come up with another 10 grand a year, but I certainly could do it. And there are plenty of people like me, with students in the University Systemt.