Can we continue to provide less and less yet ask schools for more and more?
One of my questions to presenters at an education symposium Friday was what three things the Georgia Legislature had done in the last few years that helped education and what had hurt it.
Herb Garrett of Georgia School Superintendents Association paused for a moment before responding: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I think there have been some good intentions. But it’s easier to talk about the damage.”
And the greatest damage to schools has come from the ongoing “austerity cuts,” a phrase introduced into education parlance by Gov. Sonny Perdue in 2003.
Cumulatively, those cuts have reduced spending in Georgia k-12 schools by $1.1 billion per year, said Garrett, a former principal and superintendent.
“There are systems barely able to keep their heads above water,” he said, speaking at the Georgia Partnership for Excellence in Education’s annual session on top school issues in the state.
State Rep. Stacey Abrams, D-Atlanta, could only come up with two positives that she and her peers achieved for education — increased flexibility for systems that win charter status and House Bill 186, which broadened career and technical offerings in high schools.
That she could not come up with a third example bothered Abrams. The problem is that Georgia has disinvested in its schools, she said. Many of her General Assembly colleagues sidestep the damaging underfunding because they don’t want to be tarred as tax-and-spend types.
But a manufacturer faced with unskilled workers and broken-down machinery only has three choices, said Abrams: Go bankrupt, accept that it will produce an inferior product for a down-scale market or seek new investments to improve its workforce and its product.
With its schools, Georgia has opted to produce a mediocre product and peddle it to dollar stores, said Abrams.
Her Republican colleague at the podium, Brooks Coleman of Gwinnett, did not disagree.
“It’s a fact that we have had deep cuts in education,” said Rep. Coleman, a former teacher. “I thought about having a bake sale or an auction. If we could just put the money back in — but it is not going to happen.”
It’s not only lawmakers at fault, said Coleman. Voters contend they want all sorts of improved government services, including better schools, but balk at paying for them.
Jadun McCarthy, Georgia Teacher of the Year, talked about the impact of cuts on the classroom.
“We are being told, ‘You need to do more with less,’” he said. “That sounds like a great philosophy. But it presupposes you weren’t doing the most that you could with what you had in the first place.”
A Bibb teacher, McCarthy said his school is in the bottom 5 percent of Georgia high schools, although he and other teachers are committed to their students’ success.
“For whatever reason, we are not reaching them; they are not learning the way they should. Is that solely the responsibility of the teacher?” he asked.
McCarthy said he has students who live in homes with no electricity and who come to class hungry because their last meal was yesterday’s school lunch.
“People think my job is to get this child to read ‘Beowulf,’ to understand Shakespeare, the bard of Avon. This child doesn’t care,” said McCarthy. “This child wants to be in a room with heat. This child wants to be safe.”
“There is no test that measures that Mr. McCarthy made a difference in this child’s life because he kept him off the street,” he said. “Our job goes beyond giving information and knowledge. Our job involves the creation and building up of a human being.”
Traveling the state as Teacher of the Year, McCarthy said, “I found out that teachers are tired. They are tired of being put down and focused on as the sole problem in an education system that is quite frankly not where it should be.”
McCarthy said the classrooms of today differ little from the classrooms of 1985. “Children in rows of desks. A teacher in front of the room. You might have a white board instead of a blackboard, but fundamentally the classroom is the same, yet our children are different.”
Today’s children are growing up with iPads, iPhones and computers, he said. Yet, schools continue to treat technology as an add-on rather than an essential.
In the flush days of the Georgia Lottery, there was money to pay for technology in schools along with HOPE scholarships and pre-k. Local systems received so much lottery cash for hardware, said Garrett, that “we joked that we created a new state flower. Instead of the Cherokee Rose, we had the satellite dish because one of those ugly things sprang up in the yard of every school in the state.”
But the lottery now can’t even fully fund HOPE and pre-k, so districts pay for their own technology. Garrett says this exacerbates the gap between wealthy systems that can afford the latest innovations and the poor rural ones “that are probably still using Apple IIes.”
Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
159 comments Add your comment
Mountain Teacher
January 22nd, 2012
10:39 am
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I would love to see Pre-K become mainstreamed into the state DOE simply because we Pre-K teachers provide the foundation that ALL students need by the time they get to Kindergarten. They hit the ground running on the first day of Kindergarten, and those who have not had the advantage of the preliminary year of Pre-K often have to deal with additional issues that Pre-K kids don’t. These include separation anxiety (being away from mom or grandma for the first time), expectations for school behavior (walking in line, quiet in the halls, school schedules/rules, etc.), social interactions (work and play well with others), not to mention the foundations in literacy( how to hold a book/pencil, letters and letter sounds) and math (number recognition, patterns, sorting), to name just a few. These are all things we focus on in Pre-K, believe it or not. The students also work on large and small motor skills and begin to understand about science and social studies concepts. The only difference is that instead of dittos (which are expressly forbidden by Pre-K), our students learn by doing. In other words, what looks like “play” to you is actually learning to a 4-year-old, especially with guidance and support by a caring Pre-K teacher who is trained to identify such “play” as learning. We keep anecdotal notes, photographs, and work samples in an organized on-line system instead of endlessly testing our kids. Our approach in Pre-K is flexible, but structured at the same time. We also become the foundation for understanding and speaking English for many non-English speakers, and we also can identify possible speech and developmental delays and refer them as needed. Because we are more flexible, we can spend more time reassuring a child who is upset from being away from home, or who is having an issue of some kind (home, bus, etc.). My assistant and I are very protective of our 22 little charges and we take every child’s need very seriously. This is their first experience (and for many, their parents’ first) with school, and we want it to be as good as possible. Pre-K is a good transition from home to school — going from the relaxed atmosphere of home or day care to the regimen of Kindergarten — by learning in a flexible, structured environment where rules and routines are important, but we can also take time for other things.
Instead of only being provided to “X” number of students every year, Pre-K should be available for every 4-year-old.
Now & Then
January 22nd, 2012
10:51 am
Only students who qualify have the option of attending high school after 8th grade…remaining students attend vocational school. Eliminate all none essential courses…sports, band, foreign language etc, which will greatly reduce high school size, students who utilize school buses must pay something…..I realize all additional courses make for a “well-rounded” student…we can no longer fund the full deal. Eliminate all charter schools, parents wanting special training/education for their children can send them to private school, if they can afford it…not put the extra cost on tax payers. Greatly reduce the funding of special education, collectively we spend a fortune in this area. I’ll agree that all of these things I’ve suggested to eliminate are wonderful things to offer young people, however, when money is tight….
Pre K
January 22nd, 2012
11:01 am
I agree with Mountain Teacher concerning the importance of Pre K. Why couldn’t that age student be classified as a 1st grader…still offer 12 grades…but not require 13 years as now? Only offer the 12th-13th year to students wishing to attend college and needing those upper-level courses. Why can’t we streamline schools down to 11 or 12 years….that would save real money.
Nikole
January 22nd, 2012
11:20 am
Off Topic: I teach 1st grade and I LOVE! my promethean board. It has made life 10 times easier and definitely helps me work smarter. That being said, teachers should be asked if they want one. It is such a waste if it’s sitting in non-use.
yes i am worried
January 22nd, 2012
11:27 am
I had such high hopes for Stacy Abrams. However, she along with the majority of the rest of the DeKalb delegation has done nothing to improve education for the children of DeKalb. They had their chance, allow the citizens of DeKalb County to vote on the size of the school board. But she and the rest of her colleagues from S. DeKalb refused to stand up to Howard Mosby, chair of the delegation and boyfriend to Jay Cunningham’s sister, who refused to move forward.
It isn’t just about money in DeKalb. It is about a overly bloated central office full of incompetent friends and family. Throwing all the $$$ in the world at DeKalb schools won’t fix it until the attitudes changes about whether it is an educationprovider or a jobs provider.
bootney farnsworth
January 22nd, 2012
11:46 am
about 8 years ago I came to the (obvious) conclusion that our education system is fatally flawed. it was fixable, but no one wants it fixed.
education in this state -and much of the nation- is right where the electorate and the whores they vote into office want it to be.
we serve a very important socital role, but its not to educate. anybody who learns something is a side effect.
our role: professional whipping boys.
idiot politicans can yell about the mythical teachers unions, rampant PC, and waste of monies.
idiot parents can yell about the ism of the week, and why can’t Johnny read.
idiot business owners can whine about the stupidity of the average grad and how they can’t find good help.
when in fact we are providing them EXACTLY the situtation they want: blame us so they can avoid taking any responsibility for their own failings
bootney farnsworth
January 22nd, 2012
11:47 am
why am I in the filter?
Lynn
January 22nd, 2012
12:02 pm
This “Doing more with Less” is an excuse to justify chairborn leaders who used to do your job years ago their salary and jobs. It is so easy to sit at a desk and come up with what looks good on paper but does not fit the working classroom or any other school program. The programs in the schools wait for support, help and personnel yet I have failed to see a position stay open in the admistration levels. Stop reassigning job titles to get more money in your pockets and start putting your words in action that it is the children that matter. Anyone who does not put a full effort in to our education should be voted out or consider a career change.
abacus2
January 22nd, 2012
12:17 pm
Now & then – I’m with you 100% on moving kids out of school who have no use for it. Bring back vo-tech high schools and apprenticeships. As for special ed, what an enormous waste of money. The teachers spend half their time on paperwork to cover the schools’ backsides because IDEA makes it so easy to sue a school system. IEPs are often used as protection from expulsion due to bad behavior, rather than as an aid to the student. Yes, some students benefit from the extra help, but how can we justify having 2 parapros and a teacher for a child with an IQ of less than 50? (True example)
bootney farnsworth
January 22nd, 2012
12:25 pm
wanna fix education in Georgia?
simple, if you really want to do it-but it’ll hurt
Dr. Bootney’s RX for a healthy education system in Georgia
version 1: the classroom
1-beginning at middle school, end compulsory attendance. lets teach the ones who want to be taught/who’s parents value their education.
2-give us back to power to remove disruptive/dangerous students from school. had to learn when you’re scared for your safety.
3-reintroduce the 10 pt grading system while making them actually work for the grades. primary componant here is reintroducing the F to students who actually earn it.
4-reintroduce common sense to the systems rules. nail clippers should not buy a kid a weeks suspension, nor should the 5 time violent child be allowed back into mainstream education. most of our current policies
and procedures are totally devoid of common sense. let a kid carry cough drops without a doctor’s note.
5-create perks for high achieving students. REAL high achiving students.
give kids incentives to achieve, and not just coast.
6-accept that all kids are not college material, especially in rural counties. provide co op time for non college track students. partner with employers to give kids appropriate and practical real life experiences.
7-stop mainstreaming. it hurts far more than it helps in all directions. it a kid can’t speak english, they don’t need to be in class until they can. if a kid has a major disability which requires undue levels of support, they don’t need to be in regular class.
8-stop with the hypen-whatevers. its AMERICAN history, lit, whatever.
re-write the coursework to reflect it as much.
9-throttle back the technology. it’s important, but we don’t need the
latest and greatest in every classroom. and we’ve got enough to do without having to be constantly learning the latest version of software
10-dump CRCT, NCLB, and every other stupid gov’t mandated testing.
bootney farnsworth
January 22nd, 2012
12:28 pm
hit enter too soon.
10-dump any and all gov’t manditated program required to make the gov’t feel like it’s doing something. CRCT and NCLB are the tip of the iceberg.
Proud Teacher
January 22nd, 2012
12:34 pm
Oh, God, I’m so tired of all those who attempt to make such profound statements about the inability of today’s teachers! Not in touch with today’s youth and technology? Give me a break! What’s the most pitiful part of it all is that the families and parents and didactic punsters are the ones who have no clue what challenges today’s youth face.
If you have a teacher in any school who is not “in touch” with his students, then fire him!
Teachers have been cowed for so long they no longer know how to stand up to the bullies “in charge.”
And while the chaos spirals, the students suffer. That’s the real shame.
Well, maybe the Right Wing will get their way after all: Damn the public schools to hell and march onward to private and charters schools with magic vouchers, and to bloody hell with all those who cannot manage to enter the preferred choice of Republicans.
Pay-your-own-way regardless of the cost will certainly hurt our country in the end. Democracy needs strong public education.
teacher&mom
January 22nd, 2012
12:35 pm
@Good Mom…I chose private over public for several reasons. The main reason? I didn’t want her in full-time pre-K.
I’m a firm believer that parents who read to their children, limit TV time, provide puzzles, art supplies, and music… along with a stable emotional environment, will have a child ready for kindergarten. I’m also a believer in allowing lots of “unstructured play.”
My middle child did not attend any pre-K programs and he managed quite well in kindergarten and beyond. My youngest was very eager to start “school” like her big brothers. The part-time pre K program was a perfect fit for her. Just enough “school” with plenty of time to play and be a happy five year old.
Pre-K is a great program. The teachers work very hard. It just wasn’t necessary for my children.
btw: I also went against the current trend to send children to full-time school at an earlier age. I actually kept my summer birthday child home an extra year. He didn’t start kindergarten until he was 6. It was one of the smartest decisions I ever made as a parent.
teacher&mom
January 22nd, 2012
12:42 pm
@Bootney – “accept that all kids are not college material, especially in rural counties. provide co op time for non college track students”
Ouch… I’m from one of those rural counties and I’m curious as to why you believe “especially kids from rural counties are not college material?”
Does living in the suburbs make you automatically smarter?
bootney farnsworth
January 22nd, 2012
1:05 pm
Dr. Bootney’s RX for a healthy education system in Georgia
version 2: administration
1-require classroom experience before anyone can be in education. at least 5 years for vice principal, 8 years for principal, 10+ to be one of those idiots downtown. if this occasionally means the lords of education must occasionally step down and return to the classroom – gee, what a concept.
2-give us a real advocate to represent us against the system. the recent APS debacle shows how desperately we need someone who can protect us from the abuses of power hungry, imcompetent, vindictive administrators.
3-create a oversight board which includes teachers and support staff to help chart and reign in the goals and abuses administration and politicians.
4-do not allow education administration to create new initatives without a full vetting by the system they report to
5-in lean budget times, funding cuts and freezes begin at the top.
6-if a principal stays at a school more than 5 years, they must teach at
least one course for the sixth year.
7-complaints of ethics violations must be investigated by an independant 3rd party.
8-provide real and worthwhile professional education opportunities for faculty and support staff of more than 5 years of service. even if it means allowing a week off during the school year.
9-no Saturday or evening meetings without a minimum of three weeks warning.
10-when parents complain, unless ample prior evidence to contrary, assume we’re innocent until proven guilty
Mountain Teacher
January 22nd, 2012
1:12 pm
Teacher&mom, I agree. I’m from a small, rural, mountain county myself, and I went to college (Bachelor’s in English, Early Childhood courses in Grad School). I come from a family of teachers, and my two boys are intelligent as well (the younger one taking 9th grade classes as an 8th grader). That said, I do use my mountain speech patterns, words, and phrases at home, but when I am in my professional sphere of influence at school, I use “proper” speech. In addition, I abhor incorrect written grammar and spelling, especially as it pertains to missives sent home by teachers. I am proud of my Appalachian heritage, my Southern accent, and my mountain twang to say the least, but I do also recognize the necessity of using “proper” speech in professional situations.
While I would agree that not all students are “college material,” this assertion is not exclusive to rural counties/areas. Those who are not “college material” may be gifted in different areas that are just as necessary. For instance, I can diagram a sentence with ease or find Biblical allegory in the works of Melville and Hawthorne, but I would have no idea how to repair a computer or a car engine, nor would I be able to install a heating system in my house. These require skills that are just as specialized as is teaching but which require a different skill set that is learned in a different kind of school than the “college” that is often seen as the bastion of intelligence. Just because some folks attend “tech school” and are good with their hands does not mean they are not “college material.”
bootney farnsworth
January 22nd, 2012
1:14 pm
@teacher & Mom,
has nothing to do with intelligence, more to do with interest.
its not possible to be a successful farmer (for example)and be dumb.
and have you seen the level of technology it takes to maintain a car?
most, not all to be sure, but most rural kids I know -I’ve got deep roots in SW Georgia & SE Alabama – have more interest in a non office life than becoming a banker or doctor.
plus, it also has to do with economic reality. in places like Dothan, Bainbridge, Fitzgerald, Irwin, ect there are more opportunites in blue collar occupations than white collar.
also, there is a major fuss these days that the only valid education is a college education. which just isn’t true.
bootney farnsworth
January 22nd, 2012
1:22 pm
@ Now & Then
in a global econcomy, dumping foriegn language would be somewhere between stupid and suicidal. cut back the offerings, sure. eliminate? no.
don’t know about sports, but my kid is in band. and believe me, it is NOT school funded. I pay the kids band expenses to the tune of somewhere around $700 a year.
CharterStarter, Too
January 22nd, 2012
1:26 pm
@ Proud Teacher,
I agree on many of your points re: teachers.
Please know that charters ARE public schools. They are a good choice for SOME children and educators, but the traditional public school setting is a good place for others. It does not have to be either/or…we can take the best of both and improve public education together. But we must respect the work and commitment of one another. We both have the same goals, and that is to provide the best education possible for students.
I’m glad to know you’re a proud public school teacher. I am, too.
bootney farnsworth
January 22nd, 2012
1:28 pm
repost for effect.
all kids are NOT college material.
rural, urban, suburban, inner city, polagimist mormon
compounds, where ever.
doesn’t mean they’re dumb, just not college material
for whatever reason.
accept it. live with it. deal with it.
and give them the best possible education to help them on their way.
Mary Elizabeth
January 22nd, 2012
1:38 pm
@ CharterStarter,Too, 2:57 pm, 1/21/12
“The charter sector is merely trying to be a change agent to encourage public school districts and their boards to meet the needs of their constituents and serve students.”
“And as legislators from BOTH parties contemplate how impact student achievement, I do hope they will carefully ponder how we can possibly increase achievement if everyone talks about reform but no one is willing to actually make tough decisions and put structures in place that support positive reform.”
=============================================
One of the main ways that public charter schools can serve the best interests of all of Georgia’s students and serve public education, in general, is to develop effective models for individualizing instruction.
This is vitally needed because students, throughout Georgia, within every grade level, within every curriculum area, are actually functioning on many different instructional (grade) levels within their assigned grade level. This wide dichotomy between students’ grade level placement and their actual instructional, functioning level is causing failure in public schools, and failure to show excellent statewide test results – even with excellent statewide, mandated standards.
See the following link to understand, more fully, the reasons for this dichotomy, and for effective suggestions for eliminating this major educational problem:
http://maryelizabethsings.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/about-education-essay-1-mastery-learning/
=====================================
In addition -
To improve public education in Georgia, rather than to dismantle it, we cannot support movements to exclude public school teachers from the Teacher Retirement System of Georgia.
The public should be aware that House Speaker Pro Tem Jan Jones’ HB 664, states, as its leading purpose, the following:
“(T)o provide that the Georgia Charter Schools Commission may elect to exclude all teachers in a commission charter school from membership in the Teachers Retirement System of Georgia.”
CharterStarter, Too
January 22nd, 2012
1:40 pm
Maureen, the legislature has a committee studying QBE. How much impact do you think this group will have on addressing issues such as adequacy, equity, etc.? I hear over and over the need for flexibility for districts with spending. I’m a big proponent of flexibility…coupled with accountability… Accountability for direct impact on student programming and instructional resources, fiscal stewardship, and academic outcomes. I have heard nothing about accountability in the conversations.
CharterStarter, Too
January 22nd, 2012
1:48 pm
@ Mary Elizabeth,
A great many charters focus heavily on differentiation and rigorous and relevant instruction. I encourage you to read some petitions – I think you’d be pleased. I do agree with your point.
I believe the point on retirement is not to deny public school teachers in charters retirement benefits, but rather to open up the options for retirement benefits. TRS is just fine, but there are other investment options. ALL teachers should have choice in how they plan for retirement is my view.
Mary Elizabeth
January 22nd, 2012
2:27 pm
@ CharterStarter, Too @ 11:48
I am glad that you agree with my emphasis on the need for individualizing instruction to address the actual functioning level of each student. However, the basic intent in my 1:38 pm post was to highlight the need of communication/coordination between public charter schools and other public schools, so that mainstream public schools can better incorporate some of the individualized, innovative approaches, as practiced in some public charter schools – presently as well as in the future.
In terms of your comment that “I believe the point on retirement is not to deny public school teachers in charters retirement benefits, but rather to open up the options for retirement benefits,” I would urge you to look more closely at the actual language in HB 664.
The word “exclude” is used in HB 664. That word, “exclude,” allows for the possibility that teacher choice (which you support) may be denied them. HB 664 assigns to the Georgia Charter School Commission, not to teachers, the right to exclude commission charter teachers from the TRS.
Here is the actual language of the HB 664, again, “. . .Georgia Charter Schools Commission may elect to exclude all teachers in a commission charter school from membership in the. . . (TRS)”
Mary Elizabeth
January 22nd, 2012
2:30 pm
Correction: My last post was addressed to CharterStarter,Too’s remarks at 1:48 pm, not 11:48.
HS Math Teacher
January 22nd, 2012
2:51 pm
The only politicians I’ve seen with the courage to raise taxes to get sufficient revenues are local county commissioners. In the conservative mindset, local governments know their needs best, and how to allocate resources; however, not all counties have the industrial base and collective wealth to ease the burdens that must be shouldered to raise revenue to keep schools operating properly. I do believe that we should cut waste before there’s any talk of increasing taxes; however, when that knife starts making that funny noise when it gets to the bone, put taxes on the table.
I don’t think that we can depend on the federal government to remedy our educational ills, monetarily or otherwise. The buck stops at the state level. State political leaders are quick to meddle with education and to come up with short-sighted proposals to hold teachers more accountable, and to hopefully make a name for themselves. With education being the largest slice of the budget pie, they are also quick to gut spending. As has been mentioned on here, Perdue was slashing education spending when the economy was relatively good. Now, schools and local governments are left to fend on their own, while expecting them to consistently get better at educating our kids. That is not going to happen over the long run as long as classrooms are overcrowded. Increasing class sizes is where I draw the line.
Cut my salary, cut my planning time, add to my duties, cut my classroom supplies allowances, but don’t go pouring more and more kids in my room, all at varying grade levels, and expect me to teach them the one-size-fits all curriculum.
gail
January 22nd, 2012
2:54 pm
I have been teaching for over 25 years. Yes, teaching is not an occupation to be in for the money. But I stay because I see students learning to read and loving to come to school. Their like my children because I teach the morals and respect along with education. I know education will never be perfect but someone has to love these children and try to make a difference in their lives. It is just what it is and I make the best of it each day for the kids. Proud to be a teacher!!!
teacher&mom
January 22nd, 2012
3:12 pm
Bootney – I agree a college degree isn’t for everyone but….there are too many rural students who do not go into ANY post secondary options. Half of the battle is getting the students to BELIEVE they are smart enough to swim in a bigger pond.
To break the cycle of poverty, these kids must remove themselves from their familiar surroundings and strike out on their own for a period of time. While the college degree or post secondary training may or may not lend itself to a specific job back home. it will help them break the cycle.
These kids need a broader perspective and deserve the challenge that post secondary options will provide.
Prof
January 22nd, 2012
3:30 pm
@ CharterStarter, Too, Jan. 22, 1:48 pm. HB 664 not only specifies that the Georgia Charter Schools Commission may elect to exclude charter school, teachers from TRS, but also “may make an irrevocable election to exclude public school employees from membership in the Public School Employees Retirement Fund.” In fact, this House Bill does not provide for employee/employer contributions to ANY retirement fund.
Its retirement program evidently is intended to be Social Security. I suppose one could consider that to be a “choice” of “retirement options.”
Mary Elizabeth, I wish to thank you for alerting us to this House Bill on the earlier blog-thread here of Jan. 17, “Education Finance Officer: ‘State is systematically starving our schools.’” And as you point out there, this issue may involve more than just the present charter schools, for the AJC has reported that some are thinking of making Fulton County schools into charter schools.
Read proposed HB 664 for yourselves:
http://www.legis.ga.gov/legislation/en-US/Display/20112012/HB/664
CharterStarter, Too
January 22nd, 2012
3:39 pm
@ ME, thanks for clarifying. And I agree.
As for the Commission deciding (or any other authorizer), that would be based on the request in the charter related to compensation package the charter would offer. Teachers desiring to work in the charter sector could have some decision making as they contemplate if the compensation package (including retirement) at a given charter is right for them.
I am enjoying the conversation.
Prof
January 22nd, 2012
4:00 pm
@ CharterStarter, Too, 3:39 pm. But doesn’t it seem to you that, if passed, this House Bill 664 could have a devastating effect on the ability of charter schools to recruit good teachers? Yes, the teachers would “have some decision making,” for they could decide not to teach in the charter school. As the Bill now reads, it would be the Commission that decides on the retirement program for charter school teachers, not the school and certainly not the teachers. There’s nothing in it requiring the Commission to follow the charter school’s request.
I suppose that it’s one way of cutting state educational costs—reduce its pension obligations to its public school teachers.
Mary Elizabeth
January 22nd, 2012
5:55 pm
Prof @ 4:00 pm
“I suppose that it’s one way of cutting state educational costs—reduce its pension obligations to its public school teachers.”
————————————————-
. . .as well as to reduce its pension obligations to retired public school employees, as you mentioned in your 3:30 pm post, Prof.
And, just as the state of Georgia may have reduced the cost of its healthcare delivery to all of Georgia’s retired state employees – including retired public school teachers – when it switched all retired state employees to Medicare Advantage from regular Medicare.
The public needs to be, especially, aware today that “You get what you pay for.” Education, and public services in general, may further erode in Georgia, with Georgia’s present political leadership.
CharterStarter, Too
January 22nd, 2012
6:07 pm
@ Prof,
I understand your point, but I am not sure there is any correlation between the retirement plan offered and the quality of a teacher. But to your point, attracting quality teachers is an issue that charters would need to contemplate. A good authorizer will look to ensure that a comprehensive compensation package has been considered in the HR section of the charter. The long and the short of it though is whatever the retirement plan, and whatever the teachers hired, the academic outcomes have to be there for the charter to stay open. Self checking mechanism.
Not a fan of ED
January 22nd, 2012
6:47 pm
Clayton’s board is at odds because of Ed Heatley. He needs to go immediately. According to him, we had no money, yet he hired his wife as a parent liaison at Lovejoy High School. He is making six figures. Why wasn’t that job “created” for someone who really needs it. Interesting that the chair and the vice chair are both… you get the picture.
Mary Elizabeth
January 22nd, 2012
7:03 pm
For Prof,
I thought you might be interested in the following post, which was posted today on Kyle Wingfield’s blog at 1:02 pm from a “Dennis.” I think Dennis gave a wise, cautionary warning to all public school teachers. Here is a cut and paste of Dennis’ remarks:
==============================================
Dennis
January 22nd, 2012
1:02 pm
You folks with Georgia Teacher Retirement and Georgia State Retirement systems better keep your eyes on this “Venture Capital’ thing.
It’s your retirement money (the source of that “Venture Capital”) that’s at risk.
And you won’t see a dime of any return on it.
Venture Capital, as a way of increasing retirement funds, is dead.
If a lending institution will not take a risk on “investments”, why should your money be risked?
====================================
Also, Prof, I will be in further contact with you, if the issues we have discussed on this blog become more pressing. Thank you for your communication.
Prof
January 22nd, 2012
7:18 pm
@ CharterStarter, Too, 6:07 pm. “I understand your point, but I am not sure there is any correlation between the retirement plan offered and the quality of a teacher.”
A teacher most likely will not agree to work for a school that cannot offer some sort of matching funds for a retirement plan, whether with TRS, the Public School Employees Retirement Fund, or a private 401(k). What the charter school would have to offer in its compensation package would be far less than a regular public school could offer.
And by the way, this House Bill could also damage TRS and the Public School Employees Fund, since there would be fewer teachers/schools to contribute to them… as Mary Elizabeth has also pointed out on the Jan. 17 blog-thread.
Prof
January 22nd, 2012
8:03 pm
@ Mary Elizabeth, Jan. 22, 7:03 pm. I have just explored your earlier tip that House Bill 664 could affect more than just the present charter schools, since Fulton County has been considering the option of choosing to convert its present public schools to charter schools. Indeed, you were right. An AJC news article of Dec. 16, 2010 (”Fulton could become biggest charter school system”) reported that in that year Fulton County began examining this option, and that its local school board and the state BOE would decide in 2013.
So if H.B. 664 is approved, ALL of these schools could be affected. This in turn could substantially diminish the membership in the Teachers Retirement System and the Public School Employees Fund.
As a USG professor, I am a member of TRS. I think it time for me to notify colleagues, departments, and the Senate of my University, as well as colleagues I know at other USG schools, of the significance of this impending bill. Thank you for alerting us all.
teacher&mom
January 22nd, 2012
8:11 pm
@Prof and Mary Elizabeth: Wasn’t there a deadline set for every school system to declare charter status, IE4, or “status quo” by June 30, 2013?
The Gail from Good Mom
January 22nd, 2012
8:13 pm
Loved your comment. Thanks for posting. You and Mary Elizabeth just made my day:
“I know education will never be perfect but someone has to love these children and try to make a difference in their lives. It is just what it is and I make the best of it each day for the kids. Proud to be a teacher!!!”
GM
The Nikole from Good Mom
January 22nd, 2012
8:16 pm
I’m very interested in your comment “Off Topic: I teach 1st grade and I LOVE! my promethean board. It has made life 10 times easier and definitely helps me work smarter.”
Please share with me what you really like about your board. I would love to believe you need it.
The Mountain Teacher from Good Mom
January 22nd, 2012
8:18 pm
Your comment is fantastic. I agree with you 100% because that is exactly my experience with Pre-K.
I wish every Pre-K hater would read your post three times and sit in on a day of Pre-K.
Keep up the good work. I’m delighted.
GM
To Now and Then from Good Mom
January 22nd, 2012
8:22 pm
Dear Lord, you advocate throwing kids out of school at the tender age of 13. What, pray tell, do you think will happen to those undereducated children?
They will become criminals and a huge tax-payer burden or they will become very low wage earners, meaning, they cannot earn enough money to pay taxes or worse, they will have to rely on public assistance to survive.
All that adds up to a great big expense.
It’s simply cheaper to educate people than it is not to educate people…or are you one of those few people who think we should just let poor people starve to death or allow their children to die from the flu, polio, or any other number of commonly prevented and cured diseases because it’s their fault they cannot afford to see the doctor?
To Not so Much from Good Mom
January 22nd, 2012
8:37 pm
What you forget, not so much is that I pay school taxes even when my childen are not in school and for the twenty plus years before they were born. Million dollar house? Nope but with the taxes i pay you would think i would be — and you also forget, I pay an extra sales tax for teh schools and state and federal funds go into paying for those schools too…
…which is all moot when you know, not guess, but know that the money we have now is going to feed corrupt administrators and lying, thieving teachers who changed test scores.
we’re also paying a million dollars a month down here at APS in salaries for the cheating, lying theives who changed test scores. we pay their salaries while they do not work and they wait for a trial and get this…
We APS tax payers are paying for Beverly Hall’s legal fees. That’s right. She is a thief and used a full time policemen as her personal chaffeur…
So don’t come tsk tsk tsking to me about the great bargain I have in the APS school system. The APS board is like a bunch of junkies high on funds. The more we give them the more they stay addicted.
We need to get clean and get rid of those junkies and until you pay my tax bill and see how little I actually have left to live on…you can keep your little lectures to yourself.
Good day,
Good Mom
Prof
January 22nd, 2012
8:58 pm
@ teacher&mom, January 22nd, 8:11 pm. I checked on this, and I also went back to the original blog-dialogue about this on Jan. 17, with a link to the Fulton County Charter option. I don’t know about the other school systems, but yes, Fulton’s is to decide by June, 2013. And I found also a statement by Angela Palm, Director of Legislative Services for the Georgia School Boards Association, informing us that HB 664 would only apply to charters approved by the Commission, but not Fulton’s (if it does choose to convert to charter schools) since their charter schools are approved by its Board of Education.
So I will not rouse the troops quite yet. However, “CharterStarter, Too,” it seems that you should rouse yours in the charter school movement. Ms. Palm also noted that this House Bill was introduced near the end of last year’s legislative session so it got an automatic second reading at the start of this year’s session, and is now before the House Education Committee.
Remember Paul Revere………
To Drake from Good Mom
January 22nd, 2012
8:59 pm
So you called the parents of studens who are apathetic during your planning period and ONE parent said “Oh.” did it occur to you that she was surprised to get your call or that you didn’t offer any solutions or guidance ? If you came up with a plan and asked her to participate maybe that would be better than just “informing” the parent. Offer a solution and come up with a plan together — ask your school counselor for guidance instead of just dialing up a parent and complaining…
What about the other parents? Are you having to call ALL the parents because ALL the kids are apathetic losers?
Your attitude is abundantly clear and maybe it’s time for you to hang it up and find a new profession.
To Drake from Good Mom
January 22nd, 2012
8:59 pm
So you called the parents of studens who are apathetic during your planning period and ONE parent said “Oh.” did it occur to you that she was surprised to get your call or that you didn’t offer any solutions or guidance ? If you came up with a plan and asked her to participate maybe that would be better than just “informing” the parent. Offer a solution and come up with a plan together — ask your school counselor for guidance instead of just dialing up a parent and complaining…
What about the other parents? Are you having to call ALL the parents because ALL the kids are apathetic losers?
Your attitude is abundantly clear and maybe it’s time for you to hang it up and find a new profession.
Mary Elizabeth
January 22nd, 2012
9:09 pm
@Prof, 8:03 pm
I wanted to alert you to what Angela Palm had said on the earlier thread regarding HB 664, before you start to alert others about it. Below is what Angela had said:
“Angela Palm
January 17th, 2012
3:12 pm
@Mary Elizabeth and others concerned about HB 664
“This (bill) would only have applied to Commission charters not to the charters approved by the local board, as Fulton’s are.”
====================================
Nevertheless, possibly excluding even Commission charter school teachers from being members of the TRS could be a first step in later “excluding” many more charter school teachers, and other public school employees, from the TRS and the Public School Employee Retirement Plan. For instance, if later, the langage in a subsequent bill to HB 664 were to include more than Commission charter schools, and included all charter schools, even more teachers of these public charter schools could be “excluded” from TRS, and that could conceivably be all of Fulton County’s Schools, if FCPS converted to charter schools throughout its system.
The more interested parties we alert, now, to what is happening, the better we protect public teachers’ interests from the doings of legislators, who may not be committed supporters of public education.
I have already been asked to attend another teacher’s organization this coming week to inform others of the information that has been shared on this blog. Thank you, again.
Prof
January 22nd, 2012
9:34 pm
@ Mary Elizabeth, 9:09 pm. Well, I have already alerted a colleague whose child attends a charter school so she is on its Board of Directors, and she is notifying her charter school network. Perhaps it WOULD be a good idea for me to notify the chair of my University’s committee on benefits about this……….and also the President of the Staff Council, since the staff at USG schools are members of TRS as well as the educators.
Roberta
January 22nd, 2012
9:48 pm
Maureen, I would suggest the issue isn’t “don’t more for less”. I see the issue as money MISUSED. Take Rome Georgia. The South Rome Redevelopment Corp plans to build a ‘high quality early leaning center to ‘fill a need in this community’. Corporations have pledged money to this project (over $25,000 so far), and tax dollars will soon follow. However, is there a REAL NEED? I say NO. ROME ALREADY HAS THESE EXISTING PROGRAMS in the area:
1) government-subsidized day care
2) day care with Georgia PreK program
3) public school Georgia PreK program
4) Head Start
Yes, there are FOUR PROGRAMS in the AREA. At least the public school preK and Head Start should be offering high quality care. Just one more program takes kids out of the home, and drains more tax dollars away.
Let's get ready to rumble
January 22nd, 2012
10:34 pm
Okay teachers and all educators. Time to walk out en masse. We must let the Georgial legislature and governor know that we are not taking any more of their harsh treatment. Remember to vote… The Republican government is spreading propaganda like flies on trash.