Lesson: Check all bags bought at yard sales for weapons. But Gwinnett student’s punishment seems harsh.
Updated Monday at 6:40 p.m.; Gwinnett has reduced the student’s suspension to two days. See story in the AJC.
Updated Saturday at 5:52 p.m.
One of the toughest issues for schools and parents is discipline – the nature of the infraction, what the punishment is, how it is administered and to whom.
I received this letter from the family of a Gwinnett middle school student who found a penknife in a yard sale bag bought by an aunt, who apparently never looked in the bag before giving it to her 13-year-old nephew. The boy immediately told his teacher but got in trouble anyway. (It happens; a friend of mine bought a brand new piggybank in a birthday bag at a church rummage sale and later discovered a crisp $50 in it. Some grandchild never bothered to see what grandmom had included in the bank, I bet.)
I asked Gwinnett schools for a comment and received this Friday from Jorge Quintana, director of media relations for Gwinnett:
Gwinnett County Public Schools does not have a zero-tolerance policy. We look at situations individually and take appropriate disciplinary action. While we are not at liberty to confirm or discuss the discipline this young man faces, we know our administrators followed procedures as stated in the Student Conduct Code.
The rules call for more severe action against those students who do not self-report weapons they have in their possession. It’s important to understand that these rules are in place, in part, to prevent future incidents and rule violations. Without these rules in place, others could easily claim they were not aware of what they had in their possession.
I was a bit puzzled by the statement — it seemed to suggest the boy did not self report the knife — but just got a clarification from Quintana Saturday: “This student did self-report. I was trying to explain that the consequences are more severe when others report it.”
I don’t know – a four-day suspension seems to be a pretty severe consequence to me.
Marc Ragin, the author of the letter to the Gwinnett system, is the middle student’s brother-in-law, a doctoral student in Wisconsin married to the boy’s older sister.
“I hope that if more than just our family gets involved, the administration will redact Jack’s ridiculous punishment,” Ragin told me in an e-mail.
Here is Ragin’s letter to Gwinnett:
My brother Jack had a disciplinary incident at school this morning that I find particularly disturbing. I would like you to please reevaluate the circumstances and reconsider the punishment given to him.
For Christmas this year, Jack’s aunt gave him a bag she found at a garage sale. He brought the bag to school today. While showing the bag to a friend this morning during Chess Club, he noticed that there was a small pocketknife in the bag. Neither Jack nor anyone else was aware of this item. As soon as Jack saw the pocketknife, he immediately turned it in to his teacher. His teacher brought him to the principal’s office, where he was disciplined with four days of in-school suspension.
I understand that Lanier Middle and all the other Gwinnett County public schools have a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to weapons, and that was the reason Jack was disciplined in such a manner. I have the utmost respect for such a rule, as it ensures the complete safety of all students and safety is (and should be) the number-one priority of the school system. However, I believe that Jack acted in the safest and most upstanding way possible given the situation and is being unjustly disciplined.
Jack was not aware of the pocketknife when he took the bag to school. Upon finding it on school grounds, what should he have done? What would you have wanted your own children to do? The safest and most rule-abiding thing to do was give it to a responsible adult, which Jack did. Now he is being punished – taken away from the classroom for four days – for doing the right thing.
One of the strategic goals of GCPS is to “ensure a safe, secure, and orderly environment for all.” Jack was doing exactly that, given unfortunate and accidental circumstances. At no point was any person’s safety in danger. The Mission of GCPS is “to pursue excellence in academic knowledge, skills, and behavior for each student.” Jack’s behavior was exemplary, and you are denying him four days of classroom education for such behavior.
The school’s action today sends the wrong message to Jack and other students. Jack did the right thing and he was punished for it. If a similar incident happened in the future, should he act differently? Should he hide the pocketknife, or throw it in the trash for someone else to find? Those appear to be the only ways he could go unpunished. Jack trusted his teacher and his principal, who promptly and severely punished him for doing the right thing. Does he have any reason to trust them in the future? I wouldn’t if I were him.
I am proud of Jack for doing what he did. He was given an ethical choice and made the best and safest decision possible. I am disappointed in the administration for their lack of judgment and perspective in such a situation. While the zero-tolerance policy has noble intentions, it cannot be followed blindly and there are certainly situations where judgment is necessary. Please reconsider Jack’s suspension and allow him to return to the classroom.
Regards, Marc Ragin
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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94 comments Add your comment
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
January 7th, 2012
2:24 pm
Hmmmm. Seems to me there is a distinct difference between a student who “self reports” they found a weapon in their possession, and a student who is caught with a weapon and then claims they did not know they had one with them. The student who deliberately brought a weapon to school is not likely to “self report” they have it, are they?
I can see the difference. Apparently, the Powers That Be cannot.
Lee
January 7th, 2012
2:38 pm
Once again, the idiocy of public school educrats is on display for all to see.
Way back when, just about every boy I went to school with carried a pocketknife – all the way from first grade through high school. In all those years, we never had a case of a stabbing or knifing of another student. The same penknife today causes fits of hysteria among teachers and administrators. But yet, Google “stabbed with pencil” and see how many hits you get.
They should ban those dangerous writing instruments from school, roflmao.
If they [school officials] “look at every case individually”, then obviously, if the facts were presented correctly, Gwinnett has a complete moron administering discipline.
reality 2
January 7th, 2012
2:48 pm
So, who is more idiotic, the principal who punishes students who self-report weapons accidentally brought to school, or a teacher who will include math word problems about slaves and beatings? Is this the true reflection of the school system that won a major award last year? I suppose there could always be a couple of bad apples.
catlady
January 7th, 2012
2:55 pm
I had something similar happen at my school several years ago. A fifth grader who had never been in trouble brought something to school that had a knife in it. He self-reported, and was given 3 days of out of school suspension. I really hated that; I went to bat for him but to no avail.
It seems we have a disparity in the reporting of what happened. I wonder why?
IF the boy had never been in trouble for fighting, etc, and IF he self-reported, he should have been given a lesser sentence, I think. But if BOTH those things were not true, 3 days ISS does not seem harsh. We have too many kids who claim “an accident” for things which are quite obviously NOT accidents. (For example, one repeatedly previously violent student-whose father had also threatened the principal previously, leading her to leave the building and hide-”accidently” stabbed another student FIVE TIMES with a fork!)
catlady
January 7th, 2012
2:57 pm
“discovered during Chess Club”–yep, those kids are usually SOOOO dangerous! Win at all costs!
d
January 7th, 2012
3:20 pm
Knowing Gwinnett as I do, I’m surprised there wasn’t a referral to alternative school. I’ve seen them do it for lesser offenses.
Fred
January 7th, 2012
3:22 pm
@Lee: you are killing me dude. It’s a different time now. Yeah when I went to school we didn’t carry “pen knives” we all had sheath knives on our belts. At least a folding buck knife. Go out to the parking lot and you would find that most of the trucks had at least TWO weapons in them, a shotgun and a rifle in the back window rack.
And no one ever got stabbed or shot.
Two Cents
January 7th, 2012
3:45 pm
Me thinks the school is going overboard on this. Way overboard. This kid did something on his own once he realized the problem; most kids would do nothing and waited to see if anyone else spoke up. This kid was more of an adult than the adults were. How sad.
Ole Guy
January 7th, 2012
3:46 pm
OK, so the kid’s “punishment” seems harsh (as I recall, in-house suspension was/is really no big deal IF…repeat IF…the kid is semi-serious about his school work. He gets his assignments from teacher; has more than ample time to get the work done, etc, etc). Harsh, one upon a time, was getting your six ripped; being sent right back to class…no horse crap, no pissing around…but that’s another Ole Guy story.
Let’s try to look at this thing from a different (and possibly a constructive) perspective…WHO’S responsible for one’s self? Sure, Momma and Daddy ultimately hold that one, however (as I have repeatedly tried to elaborater), at SOME point in their young lives, these kids need to start understanding the concept of accountability…two socks, check…two shoes, check…head screwed on straight, check. I honestly see no big issue with teaching Little Johnny to become somewhat aware of his surroundings. If that means checking his bag (particularly in light of the fact that in-school security has become a serious matter which everyone…that’s EVERYONE…needs to be at least vaguely familiar with), your pockets, following that weekend fishing trip, etc, etc…SO BE IT.
This “punishment” is, in all reality, a “pop on the six with a rolled-up towel”, an activity which was all-too familiar among mid-school/high school jocks following a practice session; a locker room “custom” which probably disappeared with the on-set of the gods of pc.
Believe it or not, Ole Guy has had his share of “zingers”, both professional and personal. One can either go through life, following these zingers, despondent over the “harshness” of it all, OR employ every opportunity to view these zingers…deserved or not…as learning opportunities…regardless of the fairness/unfairness arguements, there will ALWAYS be a potential learning opportunity. Given my more-than ample familiarization with “zingerland” throughout my checkered careers, I have still managed to emerge (sometimes with the “scars” of life) all the better for it.
Maybe, just maybe, all this fuss is simply a reflection of YOUR fears…fears that (strike forehead with open palm) life, simply, IS NOT ALWAYS GOOD, NOR IS LIFE ALWAYS FAIR…something which we seem to want to sheild the wee little ones from.
GET OVER IT! Two days after the kid joins his class, he will…
mom3boys
January 7th, 2012
3:49 pm
He’s 13? Is he in 8th grade? The most disturbing part of this is the poor kid is sitting in ISS doing busy work, while missing out on valuable classroom instruction prior to the state writing test on January 18.
that's goofy
January 7th, 2012
4:25 pm
we have one side of the story. But, that is all that is required to bash the school system. Not saying they are right… but can’t say they are wrong because I don’t have all the facts.
What if some of the letter writer’s “facts” are wrong?
ISS = no big deal. Teachers provide daily work.
Lee
January 7th, 2012
4:42 pm
@Fred, yes, it is a “different” time now, but I don’t think it is a “better” time.
————————————-
For those of you who think ISS is no big deal, I say if the facts are as presented in the letter, this child should have received NO punishment.
Lesson learned – you just can’t trust those in authority to do the right thing.
Mrs.B
January 7th, 2012
4:54 pm
If I were a kid in this situation, I’d keep my mouth shut and act surprised if the knife were found by someone else. It’s obvious that doing the right thing carries the same punishment as doing the wrong thing.
Pink
January 7th, 2012
5:34 pm
These are the kind of people who would tell Nazis where Jews are because, well it is the rule and so it must be the right thing. Right? Well, Jack, I guess next time you find a knife in your bag you’ll sell it to Julio down by the school yard. Won’t you?
Fred
January 7th, 2012
5:50 pm
Amen Lee.
CDJ
January 7th, 2012
6:48 pm
Assuming that one agrees with the facts presented in this particular school discipline incident, this looks to be a case in which personnel simply followed the dictates of a handbook rather than asking and addressing the right set of questions — which would likely have resulted in a different outcome. If we are to have heightened expectations of students, we should also heighten our expectations of adults.
@ Ole Guy
You simplifying this situation down to the “be more responsible and accountable” argument resembles that of the academic-lifer economists who simplify life down to theory-based empirical models — and are left scratching their heads when reality highlights the flaws of those nobel worthy models. The reality is that life requires a lot of context. Without proper context, you are simply left guessing throughout life.
Furthermore, your “take life as it’s presented” approach is not conducive to human or societal growth. Once upon a time man thought that the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth. These flawed ideas were ultimately corrected as a result of humans pushing against conventional wisdom and the status quo of their times. Humans have benefited greatly from this approach.
carlosgvv
January 7th, 2012
7:12 pm
When this student was asked if he would be honest with the teachers if he had to do it over, he said he would. I wish he had said “this incident has taught me never ever to trust any teacher again”.
William Casey
January 7th, 2012
7:13 pm
@CDJ: your “just following the handbook” comment is spot-on.” In all probability, that’s what happened. Schools have become “mindless” and it’s for a reason: no administrator ever got in trouble for EXACTLY following the letter of the law.
Jenny
January 7th, 2012
7:24 pm
It’s irresponsible blogs like this that stir emotions that lead to what happened at that school. The freak-out fall-out over the killings in Columbine – yes, your freak-out too Maureen – results in these very situations.
Jenny
January 7th, 2012
7:29 pm
So, the next time you get pulled over you should be able to tell the officer that a friend had borrowed the car earlier and that is not your bag of weed under the seat, that you had no idea it was there.
And I’m sure the officer will just walk away! LOL!
Hey, what if another middle-schooler had got into that bag, taken the knife and buried it into someone’s back?
Real shame you all want to teach this young man that ignorance is an excuse.
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
January 7th, 2012
7:38 pm
Jenny,
Your analogy does not work, unless the person borrowing the car FOUND the bag of weed and TURNED IT INTO THE POLICE.
Sam
January 7th, 2012
7:41 pm
Mindless bureaucreat principal who lacks the common sense to make a good decison. The responsible official should be fired for being stupid and take the slavery asking math teacher with him.
Jenny
January 7th, 2012
7:41 pm
Look up OWNERSHIP
CDJ
January 7th, 2012
7:42 pm
@ Jenny
Really! Pretty poor attempt to equate your concocted scenario (someone pulled over and contraband is subsequent discovered) to the facts presented in this case (kid proactively brings forth non-permitted device). Moreover, why even participate on such an irresponsible blog?!
Jenny
January 7th, 2012
7:43 pm
Seriously though, just another impossible win situation for the school, manifested by the emotion of an ignorant public.
Jenny
January 7th, 2012
7:44 pm
CDJ – your irresponsibility makes me laugh
Jenny
January 7th, 2012
7:50 pm
So, a 14-yr-old can bring a gun, show it off to his friends, with nothing to worry about. If anybody else sees it, he can just walk it up to the nearest teacher and say his aunt bought his bag at a yard sale and he didn’t know it was in there.
And we shouldn’t think he’s making it up because middle-schooler never lie? LOL!
You guys are bunch of suckers.
CDJ
January 7th, 2012
7:56 pm
@ Jenny
Laugh on, but please do aim to bring valuable insight to the public dialogue.
Atlanta Mom
January 7th, 2012
8:15 pm
Word does get around quickly in a school. You can bet no child self reports in that school for the next decade. What’s the benefit?
And I do think, I would advise my children to zip it up, try to make it through the day and come home to self report to me.
Jenny
January 7th, 2012
8:19 pm
CDJ – both the school and the kid were right. Sometimes being right has a cost. And sometime adherence to this cost is simply the best option, even if someone gets screwed.
Like when the wife finally blows off the head of the alcoholic husband who has beaten her for years. She still does a little time.
Waving the cost of doing the right thing opens a pandora’s box whose contents cost infinitely more.
Mahopinion
January 7th, 2012
8:21 pm
More proof that the teachers and administrators in Georgia don’t have the common sense they were born with.
Jenny
January 7th, 2012
8:24 pm
Atlanta Mom – don’t ya think it’s just a little pathetic that you, the MOTHER, wave all irresponsibility for what your kid brings to school?
And should you choose to preface this issue with your child – the only way he’ll know what to do when it happens – you will become responsible for the fall-out of his friends actions after your son shares your ‘irresponsible card’ with them.
geez…
Mahopinion
January 7th, 2012
8:25 pm
@Jenny,
So a child who has done nothing wrong should just accept the punishment of ISS because adherence to rules is more important than finding out the truth.
You must be an administrator.
Jenny
January 7th, 2012
8:26 pm
‘More proof that the teachers and administrators in Georgia don’t have the common sense they were born with.’
No, more proof you never listened or did you homework and are now left not knowing your butt from a hole in the ground
Mahopinion
January 7th, 2012
8:28 pm
Kindergartners being suspended for kissing a girl on the play ground. Students being punished for doing the right thing.
More proof that common sense is not common in the good ole USA.
Mahopinion
January 7th, 2012
8:29 pm
Thanks Jenny for proving you are a troll.
Jenny
January 7th, 2012
8:32 pm
Mahopinion – this rabbit hole of fantasy of which you speak doesn’t fly for people in positions of responsibility and accountability.
So, if someone had stolen that knife from the bag and killed a classmate – before the middle-school Boy Scout knew about it, you would just shrug it off even though there would not have been such a killing had the knife not been in the bag.
Maybe you could get Superman to fly around the earth backwards real fast and undo the whole thing! LOL!
Jenny
January 7th, 2012
8:35 pm
Oh, of course, brain overload equals somebody else trolling. More irresponsibility…geez…
Mahopinion
January 7th, 2012
8:36 pm
Yawn at Jennys typical bureaucratic over reaction. Perhaps we should ban the use of all paper in classrooms because someone might get a paper cut that becomes infected with flesh eating bacteria. Wouldn’t that be the prudent thing to do for someone in a position of responsibility and accountability?
honested
January 7th, 2012
8:42 pm
Someday, we will realize we have outgrown the notion of ‘zero tolerance’ policies and will return to trusting the judgement of the professionals entrusted to govern our schools.
Jenny
January 7th, 2012
8:50 pm
Mahopinion – Brilliant. A knife and a paper cut are the same thing.
You’re embarrassing yourself. Go sleep it off
Mahopinion
January 7th, 2012
8:56 pm
Perhaps we should ban chairs, too. After all, not only could a student fall off one and injure themselves, they could also pick it up and use it as a weapon against another student. And don’t even get me started on the potential dangers of pens and pencils!!!
Mahopinion
January 7th, 2012
9:01 pm
Oh! And scissors! How could I have forgotten about those weapons of mass detruction that can be found in every single classroom. Come on prudent responsible administrators. Get those dangerous things out of our classes before some rogue student goes nuts and steals one out of his neighbors desk and stabs another student!
Jenny
January 7th, 2012
9:02 pm
Mahopinion – Yes, chairs and pens and pencils are the same as a knife.
You’re embarrassing yourself. Go sleep it off
Tony
January 7th, 2012
9:10 pm
I’m speaking as a school principal with this response – a four day in-school suspension for this student in these circumstances is NOT appropriate and the school disciplinary response is an overreaction. It is unfortunate that I have colleagues in the profession who can not think for themselves.
Larry Major
January 7th, 2012
9:19 pm
The four days ISS mean the self-reporting was taken into consideration, since this is the minimum punishment for a Level II offense. Lacking the self-report, this is a Level III offense which involves a disciplinary hearing on long term suspension (state law requires a one year minimum) or other long term action. When Mr. Quintana mentioned the more severe actions, he was using Jack as an example of minimum action, since there is no lighter punishment for a weapons violation.
You may be right that this could dissuade others from self-reporting, but hopefully the effect will be heightened awareness and an increased effort to prevent others from making the same mistake.
If you think the punishment is harsh, consider this: had this kid been a few years older and someone else reported his possession of a weapon, he would be facing a one year minimum prison term.
Mahopinion
January 7th, 2012
9:21 pm
What ever happened to letting the punishment fit the crime?
Jenny
January 7th, 2012
9:39 pm
Larry Major wins.
Goodnight ladies and gents
CDJ
January 7th, 2012
9:54 pm
The scary thing in this case is the fact that adults have been trained and mandated to allow a handbook to think for them. From a “cover your butt” and risk mitigation standpoint, this abdication of critical thinking (a true metric of responsibility) is rational behavior — nevertheless scary.
Recognizing that institutions (e.g. the public school system in this case) will strive to sustain themselves at the expense of the individual when push comes to shove … to what degree do you allow/accept the humanity of the individual to erode in order to soothe the conscious of some, but at the expense of a many.
Mahopinion
January 7th, 2012
9:54 pm
Ah, but Larry, there in lies the crux of the problem. The punishment for self reporting doesn’t fit the crime. It’s a knee jerk reaction with absolutely no room for common sense.
Sam
January 7th, 2012
10:10 pm
Public schools are doomed with stupid adminstrators punishing the innocent and dimwitted teachers offering slavery math. The real problem is not even the awful educators but the public who is willing to support this insanity.
Pink
January 7th, 2012
11:12 pm
Atlanta Mom, you are on the right track but you’re not taking it far enough. What if he should be found with the contraband? He won’t be able to self-report then and he’ll get the maximum. No, no, no, it’s better that he dump it in the trash when no one is looking. Of course, this may lead to some miscreant finding said knife and then assaulting someone but you can’t worry about that when your want your child to get into Harvard or Cambridge. You know getting ISS because of a weapons violation doesn’t look too good on the record. Take my word for it, get rid of the contraband ASAP.
just a MOM
January 8th, 2012
12:01 am
Now i’m just a mom and i don’t live in gwinnett,but i would like to say i would tell my kid just to hide it and try to make the rest of the day and tell me when he gets home…..
@jenny i’m not getting in a huge conversation with you but HOW DAMN OLD ARE YOU????
Hillbilly D
January 8th, 2012
12:07 am
When I was a boy, every boy toted a pocket knife. I still tote one everywhere I go. Seems to me adults are abdicating their judgemental responsibilities. Just suspend everybody for everything and you’ll never have to use your common sense to make a decision.
William Casey
January 8th, 2012
12:28 am
CDJ’s 9:54 post is entirely accurate. Schools long ago began letting “policy” think for them.
Janet
January 8th, 2012
12:38 am
In this case, I agree that the punishment seems too harsh. But I think the school probably stuck to the handbook to protect themselves from future offenses. If that same boy were to get in trouble, hurt someone, or probably even just get into a fight 1, 2, or 3 years down the road… they would look back at his “brought a knife to school” offense and have to answer for why nothing was done at that time. Fair??? No… but still something I bet the school keeps in the back of their mind.
Sage
January 8th, 2012
8:06 am
Would we still be having this debate if instead of a knife the students accidentally brought a loaded handgun? I have been a teacher for 35 years and this is what we’ve come to because of incidents of violence in public schools by students. Because these parents went public over this, it’s become a bigger issue than it should have. Take a deep breath people, the young man will be fine.
Madison
January 8th, 2012
8:55 am
Why don’t you publish the names of the teacher and principal and the tribunal that wouldn’t take responsibility and use THEIR judgment. Why do administrators get paid any more than teachers if they are unwilling to exercise discretion for the benefit of children.
Excellent letter by Mr. Ragin.
Lesson: Check all bags bought at yard sales for weapons. But Gwinnett … | STL Sell Saint Louis Buying and Selling
January 8th, 2012
9:24 am
[...] Lesson: Check all bags bought at yard sales for weapons. But Gwinnett … I received this letter from the family of a Gwinnett middle school student who found a penknife in a yard sale bag bought by an aunt, who apparently never looked in the bag before giving it to her 13-year-old nephew. The boy immediately told his … Read more on Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Annette Rogers
January 8th, 2012
9:30 am
Doesn’t punishment for turning in “GCPS contraband” violate the spirit of the policy? I understand that GCPS doesn’t want to set a “precedent” that could decrease safety in the schools, but TURNING IN a pocket knife, drugs, etc. does not decrease safety. I wonder if the issue for the teacher was that she/he couldn’t have unsecured possession of the item either? In most cases, it seems like the item, if not likely to cause danger (not going to explode, etc.), could be treated much like a $100 bill. An administrator, etc. could deliver a simple form and collect the item and information such as who turned it in, who witnessed it, where the item will be secured, and if/how the item can be claimed by the owner (with appropriate consequences), etc. Shouldn’t be any more paperwork than for ISS, but more appropriate? If I was the teacher or administrator, I probably would have just put it in a lock box in my desk and called the parent to come pick it up. But, I’m from a generation where you could count on any “real” man having a pocket knife, a handkerchief, a tube of chapstick, and an “emergency” $20 (or $50) bill.
catlady
January 8th, 2012
10:54 am
Folks, the reason we have no tolerance policies is because of parents! When administrators were allowed to follow their common sense, parents complained because (even though they did not know all the facts) they were SURE “the other kid” was getting a better deal than their kid. So, I have little patience with folks who complain about the policies that were put in place because of people like them!
YOu see, it’s always a MUCH lesser offense when MY kid does it than when YOUR kid does it!
decaturparent
January 8th, 2012
11:14 am
Maureen, our own City Schools of Decatur suspended a first grader who accidentally brought his Boy Scout pocket knife in his backpack (It was left over from a weekend Boy Scout camping trip). He saw the knife and told the teacher about it but was still suspended.
Batgirl
January 8th, 2012
11:17 am
If the facts presented here are correct, then I don’t believe the boy should have received any punishment, but I do agree that the school probably had to cover its butt in case he gets in more trouble somewhere down the line. Still, four days of ISS seems too much if he’s never been in trouble before. In my opinion, an essay on the dangers of weapons in schools would have been sufficient.
I am, however, really irked by the fact that this letter was written not by the boy’s parents but by his doctoral candidate brother-in-law in Wisconsin. My guess is that they think they can scare the school system by bringing in someone who is as well or better educated than most of the school system’s employees, but I think that if they create too much of a stink they’ll end up looking even more asinine than the teacher and principal.
Also, there have been times when I’ve had to discipline students that I really did not want to. For example, I had an eighth grade girl to screamed at a boy to “shut the ‘eff’ up” while she slapped the crap out of him. I really didn’t blame her because he was generally a pain in the rear, and he would not leave her alone. So, I gave her my sincerest apologies when I handed her a detention slip. I think that if the teacher and principal explained school policy to Jack and apologized for the punishment, it would go a long way toward making things better. And who knows, maybe they did!
Batgirl
January 8th, 2012
11:19 am
@catlady, you’re absolutely right.
Ashley
January 8th, 2012
11:22 am
Pen-knife as a weapon let me see……You have scissors , compasses and forks all use by students all a lot more dangerous . I’m all for punishment but it would appear common sense is in short supply. A simple No.2 pencil can be turn into a weapon. So I guess my jr. high and high-school wouldn’t have been considered part of the zero-policy mantra they have going on today. So much for the kid trying to be honest. Parents hide your child swiss-army knife …..the idiot patrol is on the loose.
3schoolkids
January 8th, 2012
11:44 am
Unfortunately there is a zero tolerance policy for a reason. It is to make sure everyone unequivocally knows the rules and the punishment for breaking them and to protect against claims of “preferential treatment” and possible lawsuits that come about when the rules are not applied to everyone in the same way. This poor kid didn’t have a choice and is to be commended for doing the right thing even though it meant punishment for him in the end.
Digger
January 8th, 2012
12:07 pm
A principal will jump on the chance to report anything resembling a weapon. It covers their large butt and gives the impression that they actually do something.
Mahopinion
January 8th, 2012
12:15 pm
@ cat lady
But it WASN’T a gun, it was a pen knife. And it wasn’t found, it was turned in by the student. So what lesson has been learned about doing tne “right thing”? Quite simply, it’s “keep your mouth shut” or you’ll be suspended and have a black mark on your record. Is that really what we want our kids to learn from this?
Confused
January 8th, 2012
12:41 pm
Most all on here claim to be “conservative”, right?
However, when it comes to any punishment for a kid in school that has done wrong or has broken a rule, suddenly you become more liberal than anyone. Why is that?
To exagerate my point, if a man with gun “accidentally” shot a woman to death, would you have as much passion? I don’t think so.
So while you become a liberal with kids, what are the kids learning? Have you even thought of that? A kid might honestly not know that he broke a rule. But, when given a “free pass” what does that teach the kid? “Hey, I can just claim ignorance for anything and get off free!”
You so-called conservatives need to decide what you are – a liberal or not!
Paulo977
January 8th, 2012
1:33 pm
Two Cents
January 7th, 2012
3:45 pm
Me thinks the school is going overboard on this. Way overboard
__________________
I am afraid almost all schools have gone “overboard”…..Unfortunately ,the climate in schools now no longer ‘nurtures’ the young growing human being . The whole system resembles a prison , from top to bottom ,where administrators , teachers and other personnel are ‘under the gun’…. Personnel in schools are scared to use their own initiatives in dealing with kids. They feel they must adhere to all rules, irrespective of the conditions surrounding acts of kids !!
bootney farnsworth
January 8th, 2012
3:44 pm
so what have we learned here ….
1-once again, the system punishes someone for trying to do the right thing.
2-once again, the system has shown a kid the smart thing to do is to enforce the code of silence, which is far more dangerous than the so called weapon itself.
3-once again, idiots are determined to turn a common sense issue into some stupid “I’m more conservative than you are” contest.
4-once again, the system shows why no sane person should endorse state run health care. if the system can screw this up so badly, God only knows what will happen with your heart bypass
5-once again we have a shining example of why we need to completely overhaul the education system
6-once again, the system demonstrates education is in the business of control, not education
7-once again, they system compells parents and students to break the rules instead of respecting them
bootney farnsworth
January 8th, 2012
3:46 pm
what do you do with a kid who knows ti-quan-do? his/er feet and hands are weapons. make them quads?
bootney farnsworth
January 8th, 2012
3:47 pm
what do you do with a kid who is that much smarter than the average and can see the stupid system for what it is.
his/her brain is the most dangerous weapon at all.
lobotimize them?
bootney farnsworth
January 8th, 2012
3:50 pm
@ confused
don’t be such a raging moron. there is a MASSIVE difference between an honest mistake and the attempt to rectify it and an accidental shooting.
even a “conservative” brain ought to be able to understand that.
assuming it wants to.
bootney farnsworth
January 8th, 2012
3:51 pm
isn’t it funny how a system which is supposed to promote education is patently unable to do simple logic
David Sims
January 8th, 2012
5:24 pm
It is a fool’s rule whereby someone is punished for a transgression made unknowingly. More so, when the victim of the punishment had been the judges’ only informant.
BC
January 8th, 2012
8:16 pm
Another case of no common sense in our schools!!
Jack Persyn, Georgia Middle School Student, Suspended For Reporting He … | Atlanta-ON.us
January 8th, 2012
11:01 pm
[...] aunt had bought the bag from a yard sale, and gave the purchase to the teen without checking inside first, the Atlanta-Journal Constitution reports. After Persyn told his Lanier Middle School teacher that [...]
Truth in Moderation
January 9th, 2012
12:07 am
Coincidentally, my middle schooler’s friend found $5.00 in the pocket of a camo jacket his mom had picked up for him at Goodwill. He is home schooled, so he did not have to turn it in.
It seems the government has weapons issues among its own ranks….they can’t KEEP them!
Read this shocking article…
‘Sensitive’ Military Equipment Missing From Washington Military Base
“One can go to most pawn shops outside of Army bases and find Kevlars, complete ECWS cold weather clothing sets, E-Tools, ….. Pretty much whatever you want…. The bayonets, the mil-spec snowshoes and Arctic sleeping bags are big sellers…”
Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/missing-weapons/2012/01/08/sensitive-military-equipment-missing-washington-military-base#ixzz1iw0MpvEa
Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/missing-weapons/2012/01/08/sensitive-military-equipment-missing-washington-military-base#ixzz1iw07E0RS
Old Administrator
January 9th, 2012
7:48 am
This is a slippery slope. Two sides of the story are needed before any of us can comment. When the media calls requesting a comment on a situation, I have now started asking the media to get me a release from the family of the “child” in trouble so I can tell the school’s side of the story. So far, none of the parents involved want to do this.
R. Smith
January 9th, 2012
11:10 am
I had an experience with Lanier Middle also. This happened several years ago. My daughter was also an eighth grader at the time. She was alone with a boy after school. He was trying to persuade her to perform a sexual act. She said no several times. He persisted and she unwillingly agreed. The next day she went to the counselor to talk about what happened. She was confused, scared, and upset. The counselor reported her to the principal. She was immediately suspended and we had to attend a hearing at the county offices. She was given a year at the alternative school which we declined. She had never been in any trouble before and did not feel this would be the best environment. We home schooled her. They said this was a lesser punishment because she had reported this herself. They could have suspended her the rest of her school career. She was charged with “committing a lewd act on school grounds”. We were not told what happened to the boy in this situation. I was not happy with her placing herself in the situation that she did, but I also do not feel that talking to a counselor about what had happened should have ended up with her suspended from school entirely. She didn’t get caught she voluntarily went to the counselor for advice and support. Like this other situation sometime people of authority need to think.
thomas
January 9th, 2012
11:17 am
@catlady,
No, the reason for a zero-tolerance policy is because administrators do not want to fight those parents. They just want to make their jobs easier. Parents may be in the equation, but at the end, administrators decided that they would rather spend their time on other matters.
The logic of the school system is laughable. What does punishing this child do to prevent any future incidence of unknowingly bringing prohibited materials to schools? NOTHING. The only thing it does is for other kids (and their parents) to not self-report and hope they can go without any punishment.
thomas
January 9th, 2012
12:06 pm
@ R. Smith,
“… sometime people of authority need to think.”
Well, this is something people at school aren’t really good at – to think…
Good Mother
January 9th, 2012
1:43 pm
Maureen, please tell me how I can send money to the kid and his parents so they can enjoy themselves on their four day vacation from IDIOTland?
The kid did EXACTLY the right thing. The so-called teacher and the so-called administrator need to be FIRED for such a travesty. They just taught the kid NOT to be honest because if you are honest and do the right thing you will be punished.
The teacher and the administrator need a four HUNDRED year suspension from society.
To Sage from Good Mother
January 9th, 2012
1:51 pm
“Sage” you just say let the boy get suspended unfairly. I doubt very seriously, “unSAGE” that if you were unfairly disciplined at your job that you would just tell yourself to take a deep breath and endure it. No, you would be running and screaming for justice.
Your advice is not sage and neither are your thoughts. You need a new monniker — one that fits.
To Confused from Good Mother
January 9th, 2012
1:57 pm
Confused, you are indeed, Confused. You said “A kid might honestly not know that he broke a rule.”
He DID NOT BREAK THE RULE. He followed the rule all the way to the letter. He did EXACTLY what he should have done yet he is being punished. Get the facts through your thick skull. He followed the rule exactly. He reported a knife he found. He did not bring a knife to school. He brought a bag to school. That’s it. THen when he found a knife he told the adult. He did exactly what he should have and now is suffering the consequences of doing the right thing.
Something exactly like this already happened in a school. A girl and her mom had identical lunch boxes. THe mom gave the girl the mom’s lunch box, which had a knife in it. WHen the girl opened the lunch box she saw the knife and gave it to the teacher and got suspended from schoool. Morea and more idiots in the school system. The grow like tribbles.
NewsReader
January 9th, 2012
1:57 pm
Stupidity comes in all forms. Especially when it involves carrying weapons to school, intentional or not, which resulted in the suspension of a 7th grader at Lanier Middle School. I have a picture of one of those box cutters (you know – the same kind used in the 911 high-jackings) lying out in plain sight inside the classroom for every student in the class to see. In fact, I can walk into the classroom and put my hands on it right now. If this is indeed a zero tolerance policy, then why in the hell are there any exceptions to the zero tolerance? After all, zero does mean zero does it not? It appears that it’s not really a rule. It’s only a rule enforceable at the discretion of administration should they want to utilize it to make an example out of someone to remind the rest of the students who is in charge. Oh, and did I mention that it was a Gwinnett County School?
NewsReader
January 9th, 2012
2:03 pm
Laughing@Confused! I’m definitely not a liberal. I’d have to be entitled, irresponsible, and hypocritical to be a liberal, and I’m none of those. But what’s in a name, right? I guess “Confused” really does say all we need to know about you!
Ole Guy
January 9th, 2012
3:30 pm
CDJ (and, perhaps, others), this is not a question of common sense, a departure from reality, or anything else other than a lesson, pure and simple, that life presents many many situations which leave us with a “damn if you do; damn if you don’t” decision point. We’ve all been there…”you can’t please everyone, ya gotta please yourself” scenarios pop up every day. In the ideal world, we follow de rules; never deviate from de law. However, we are often called upon to “USE OUR OWN BEST JUDGEMENT”, even though our decisions may not be viewed with universal favor.
As “unjust” as the kid’s situation may be, he has the POTENTIAL opportunity of using this experience as a learning tool/a stepping stone, if you will, to the realization that RESPONSIBLE ADULTHOOD will often require him to make decisions which are completely out of the box, yet, in the long run, are the best possible decisions for all concerned.
The kid has one of two choices: go through a life of self-doubt and frustration over the often-insane occurances of life, OR suck it up, do the time (as “harsh” as ISS has been cranked out to be), and LEARN from the experience. LIFE IS NEITHER ALWAYS FAIR NOR, FOR THAT MATTER, ALWAYS VERY PALLATIBLE.
Not to insult anyone, but if this very valuable concept requires further explanation, you must lead an extremely dull life.
reality 2
January 9th, 2012
6:44 pm
@ Ole Guy,
So, this kid LEARN that next time he broke a rule, he will keep quiet or hide it so that he won’t be punished. Is that what you want him to learn?
Maureen Downey
January 9th, 2012
6:46 pm
@reality, I just updated that Gwinnett has rolled back the suspension to two days. Calmer heads are prevailing. At this point, the kid returns to class tomorrow. It was still an overreaction but at least someone reconsidered.
Maureen
Gwinnett rethinks youth’s suspension over knife in backpack « « AtlantaRecruiters AtlantaRecruiters
January 9th, 2012
7:25 pm
[...] an email to AJC education blogger Maureen Downey, Quintana said, “Gwinnett County Public Schools does not have a zero-tolerance policy. We [...]
KIM
January 10th, 2012
5:14 pm
How and why is this topic in the news?
Georgia School Suspends Student for Volunteering that He Accidentally Brought a Knife to School | The Lone Republic | News, Politics and Opinion from a Liberty perspective
January 13th, 2012
10:29 am
[...] aunt had bought the bag from a yard sale, and gave the purchase to the teen without checking inside first, the Atlanta-Journal Constitution reports. After Persyn told his Lanier Middle School teacher that [...]