A second grader draws one person shooting another and labels them “me” and “you.” Cause for concern?

Plenty of concern should be involved. What if this kid shows up at school with a loaded gun and threatens another student or teacher? Safety should be the main priority. Did they talk to the parents of the student who drew the picture? The attitude of the principal and administrators are disgusting.

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“My family recently experienced “the dance” from one of Georgia’s premier school systems at an award-winning school when our child was given a picture drawn by a second-grade classmate of a person shooting someone”

It looks like they are trying to protect their reputation. You may just have to promise them you will SHATTER their reputation, by bring the media in to shine a spotlight on it.

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My first inclination after reading this post is that the other child is a Behavior Disordered (aka BD) student. I am repeatedly shocked at the wide variance given BD students. We have BD students that have threatened, choked other students, hit teachers and students, and completely disrupted classrooms. They are removed briefly, and occasionally given ISS, but return to the room the next day. When parents of the victims inquire about the other student, they are given very little information and administrators seem dismissive of the event. In reality, the administrators are restricted from sharing information and their hands are tied to invoke more significant consequences due to special education laws.

The above case may not be a BD case, but it definitely resembles some of the ones I’ve seen in the schools.

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Sounds to me like the parents have LEGITIMATE questions:

Who is “you’ and “me”? Why is that NOT a legitimate question?

Does the school find the picture developmentally appropriate for a second grader? Why is that NOT a legitimate question?

What criteria was used to determine why their child was not in any danger? Why is that NOT a legitimate question?

Why was the school psychologist not initially involved? Why is that NOT a legitimate question?

When the school psychologist admits to some concern about the picture, why is it NOT a legitimate question to ask what role he/she did or did not play in determining a student was not in danger?

You have a child who has drawn a violent image, and EXPLICITLY labeled it. You have a school that CANNOT explain the criteria it used to determine there is no danger from the photo, even as THEIR professional admits they weren’t fully in the involved in the process of making that determination.

And you want to claim the parents have NO legitimate concerns?

Really?

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Really!! Why react when you can over react? It boggles my mind that these parents have gotten their panties in a bunch over a stick figure drawing by a 2nd grader.

“The investigation was deemed complete after two days, and the conclusion was that our child was not in any danger. We asked for the other child to be placed in another class. That was denied immediately. We are still struggling with questions.”

Instead of demanding that the budding artist be removed from the class, perhaps they should have asked that THEIR child be moved to another class. Sounds like the school investigated and determined the child was not in danger. End of story. Here’s a suggestion…forget about it and move on.

And if you’re going to “read things” into the drawing, you need to consider that the stick figures were both smiling.

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“Sounds like the school investigated and determined the child was not in danger. End of story. Here’s a suggestion…forget about it and move on.”

If it is really THAT easy, then in should be THAT easy for the school to address their concerns.

Simply explain WHAT WAS THE CRITERIA they used to determine their child was in no danger?

What LEGITIMATE reason would a school system have for not answering that question?

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“They were more concerned with protecting the rights of the child who gave the picture to my son.”

As they should be. Witch hunts are inappropriate in schools, whether they be driven by administration… or parents.

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“They were more concerned with protecting the rights of the child who gave the picture to my son.”

Let’s see if we can get this straight: A child draws a violent image, with an IMPLICIT threat, and hands it to another child. And the school can offer NO PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION as to why they don’t consider that image a threat.

And we should be more concerned with THAT child’s rights, not the rights of the child who was threatened?

Really?

And the

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“And the school can offer NO PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION as to why they don’t consider that image a threat.”

Perhaps because it was drawn by a second grader, who has no legal access to guns?

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“And the school can offer NO PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION as to why they don’t consider that image a threat.”

Perhaps because it was drawn by a second grader, who has no legal access to guns?

Jeff did you just really say that, and by saying that somehow imply that because a child has no “legal access” to guns, he cannot bring a gun or other weapon to school, or in some other way act violently?

Did all the other kids who HAVE brought guns to school have “legal access” to them?

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You dont need to provide a plausible explanation for common sense. Its a child drawing a simple doodle. Not every person that wears a turban has a bomb strap to themselves, not every “child” that draws a silly picture is going to come to your school and shoot up everyone.

Silly and over the top. Only good thing I read about this story is the mother doesnt teach anymore, thank goodness.

Have to go now, I just saw that my daughter is drawing a rocket leaving the earth. This must mean she is planing an attack on China, anybody know the number to 911.

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Drew(former teacher) raises a valid point. If the school determined this was not a true threat, or a substantial disruption by the other child, then the parents need to request that THEIR child be removed from the classroom.

School officials probably know this second grader pretty well. If they have deemed it an innocent drawing by a seven-year-old, it may very well be true. If it is a drawing from a developmentally disabled child, they can’t disclose this to anyone. The bottom line is that noone is going to look after your child better than you are, so if he truly felt threatened and it means moving him to a new class, different school, or some other option, don’t abdicate your responsibility to your child. You certainly don’t need anyone’s permission to move him out of this school, and as parent’s, we sometimes have to make sacrifices to do this when it is in the best interest of our children.

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The parent said “I have tremendous respect for school psychologists “.
Interesting, the only school psychologists I’ve run into are much closer to the superindent’s description (“School psychologists can just say whatever you want them to say).

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Beverly, are you allowed to vote ?

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Beverly:

Because absent probable cause of a crime, the school (and especially the parent) has ZERO right to question that kid. And if there IS probable cause, the school shouldn’t handle it anyway – the cops should.

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Random things that 7 yr old KIDS can not do in school today:
1) Have Fun 2) Joke around with friends 3) Get out of their seats 4) Forget to take their Ritalin
5) Wear jeans with holes in them 6) ride a bike without a helmet and elbow pads
6) keep a dream journal (just ask the girl that was kicked out of Roswell HS)
7) Say, draw, or think the word “gun” – after all, it’s only something they see on the school bus, in gym lockers, read & see every day in the news and the main prop in 85% of modern movies… just don’t “threaten” anyone by drawing a picture of it.

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On Feb. 29, a 6-year-old boy shot and killed classmate Kayla Rolland at their elementary school outside Flint, Michigan.

Sure it’s NOT a common occurrence. But these parents are supposed to accept AT FACE VALUE that the school system is being COMPLETELY HONEST with them?

Really? Because school systems have EARNED that trust, perhaps?

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Beverly:

Because absent probable cause of a crime, the school (and especially the parent) has ZERO right to question that kid.

It’s not a crime to threaten somebody? Then why do we have “safe school” zones? Sorry that dog don’t hunt. A COMPETENT administration could have still addressed this parents concerns.

Even IF they couldn’t comment directly on the child, they could have explained the CRITERIA they use in accessing a threat. There is ZERO excuse not to have done that. ZERO.

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Its too bad the parents are so busy pointing fingers and blaming others… They are missing out on a prime opportunity for a valuable learning experience by talking with their child about guns and relationships with others.

And just what lesson is the child supposed to learn Dad? That if someone makes an implicit death threat toward you, you should trust the GOVERNMENT to decide whether it or not you need to be LEGALLY MANDATED to share space with that person on a daily basis?

Great lesson there!

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Beverly: This is a dangerous world, and nothing the schools can do can prevent it.

Agreed. It comes down to reasonable risk and making INFORMED decisions. Which is why again, there is ZERO excuse for a school not to tell a parent, how they assess the difference between a “doodle” and a “warning sign”.

Because if they have no way to EXPLAIN how they make that assessment, how can a parent trust that it is even an accurate assessment?

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Twenty years ago, I would have ignored it and moved on with school, but with today’s childrens’ lack of moral code, I would be concerned. Kids today have no sense of right or wrong. This has been taught to them by tolerance programs at school, their fun-loving church and their allowance to watch whatever they want since they were small.
Yeah, take it as a serious issue.

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Jeff – 8:36

So, I guess schools in Canada, England, Wales, Scotland, France and Germany also have these identical problems? And, of course, I’m sure schools in Japan, China and Russia also deal with these problems every day. Right boobie?

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Beverly: Who looks at a drawing from a 7 yr old and sees “threat”? I see… a drawing from a 7 yr old. Again, show probable cause that a crime has been committed…

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Carlos: Those nations have no 2nd Amendment…

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I guess Dad would have told Kayla Rolland (if she were ALIVE that is) that it’s HER fault for not being able to disarm her 6 year old classmate?

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What a bunch of pansies we’ve become. No wonder “educators” can’t handle their classes any more, they’re the biggest wimps of all. My school friends and I regularly joked about shooting each other–or more often than that, our teachers, and the last time I checked, none of us wound up as serial killers. I bet everybody reading this sang, “Glory glory hallelujah, teacher hit me with a ruler. Shot her out the door with a Magnum .44, and she ain’t my teacher any more!” when they were in single-digit grades.

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The school did not ignore this by any means. In fact, it seems like they did quite a lot of investigating – the most you’re going to get from a government educational agency, anyway. This parent seems to miss the point that a stick drawing does not equal murderous intent…even if it might look that way on first glance.
What more does this parent want? As a mom I might ask for my child to be moved to another class, maybe.

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Beverly: Prove that this kid was from a “VIOLENT, DYSFUNCTIONAL famil[y]“. Oh wait… you still haven’t shown probable cause to question anyone…

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What more does this parent want? As a mom I might ask for my child to be moved to another class, maybe.

Well for those who want the parent to be “proactive” one thing the parent could do is sit in on the class. There is certainly NO legitimate reason the parent cannot observe her child’s class is there?

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Beverly

You missed my point-

If the system is not doing whatever you deem is in your child’s best interests, then you as a parent need to take the steps and make the sacrifices to get your child out of the system.

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Drew @ 7:25, you are correct. Homeschooler @ 7:17, good points. You are wise to take the time to educate your child. It is time well spent. Two days is more than enough time to investigate the “threat” of a stick figure drawing incident. It amazes me that our Republic has lasted this long when we have become such a nation of whiners. I guess that they would have sent the seven year old to detention and called the police if he had used his thumb and finger and went “bang, bang” while pointing at the other child. They are definitely “helicopter” parents.

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I agree with “Teacher”. The parents were likely given an explanation but didn’t like what they heard. I’m sure they were not happy with. “Kids tend to draw and act out things that we think are violent but there is no harm…Johnny has no behavior problems and has never threatened your child or any other child verbally or otherwise. We simply were not concerned”. No, they want school officers, psychologists etc.. involved and the kid moved out of the class. I guess they would have been happy if he was transported to Scottish Rite and had a full mental health assessment or handcuffed and taken to be interviewed by the county police department. I agree that the school should openly address the parents concerns but they probably did blow them off a bit b/c the parents were overreacting.
No one hates the school system more than I do but, typically they are the ones who are over reacting which is why I think they were certain that there was no threat in this situation.

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Two days is more than enough time to investigate the “threat” of a stick figure drawing incident.

Yes Ronin, and THREE days is more than enough time to figure out if a student is willing to PHYSICALLY ASSAULT a school resource officer, he just MIGHT pose a threat to the safety of others.

But that didn’t stop Westlake from allowing him back to school, where he promptly assisted his classmates in BREAKING another student’s jaw, did it?

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SHe writes “IMO, there just aren’t enough facts for others to opine on matter. Yes, it could be absolutely nothing to lose sleep over. Yes, it could be something to be concerned about for myriad reasons. One just doesn’t know.”

I agree completely.

We really just don’t know enough here to judge the school, the counselor, the parents, the kids. Without a discussion, in depth, with all of them, there just isn’t enough information here. I could only guess to fill in the blanks.

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99.9% of the time, this kind of thing is going to be absolutely meaningless. It is by all means developmentally appropriate for a seven year old child to draw pictures that may contain “violent” images, such as the use of guns, bombs exploding, etc. The school may have not communicated with the concernedaremts as clearly and as efficiently as they could have. However, a simple conversation with the child who drew the picture, followed by a conversation with his parents, is all that was really necessary here. Assuming there were no extenuating circumstances found in those conversations, the school should then have a conversation with the parents of the child who received the drawing, explaining to them the steps taken, and why they feel there is no legitimate threat. Following that, the child who received the drawing should be brought into the conversation, with his parents present, to be reassured that he is safe.

If the parents of the child who received the drawing are not satisfied after these steps, then it is up to them to take steps for alternate education for their child. It is completely unreasonable for them to demand that the artist be removed from their child’s class, unless they would like the same standard to be applied to their child the next time he draws a picture that could be considered “violent” or offensive in any way.

If the school has taken reasonable steps to ensure the safety of its students, and has been transparent (within legal boundaries) regarding those steps, and if the school has communicated those steps clearly to all involved, it has handled the situation appropriately.

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Trust me SEE I know ALL about “helicopter parents” (even the point of accompanying their child to a job interview) But, knowing school systems and how they are I suspect the school DIDN’T tell them what they wanted to know. Review the original post

– Our child has never considered this classmate a friend. When we shared this info with the school along with the fact that our child had not had good interactions with this child, it did not change their perspective.

–Who are the people labeled “me” and “you?”

If the “you” was THEIR child, they have EVERY right to know.

–Did they find this picture developmentally appropriate for a second grader?

– We were told the school determined that our child is not in any danger. What made them sure of this?

Again, a SIMPLE, DIRECT, question that deserves a SIMPLE, DIRECT answer.

-The school psychologist admitted that she was not given all of the information and indicated that the picture was concerning

They had TWO days to investigate, yet the school psychologist admits she wasn’t privy to all the information. And we blame the parents for being concerned that the investigation/assessment may have been lacking?

Really?

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1. What was the content of the other pictures the child drew?
2. How does the “artist” interact with other students on a day to day basis?
3. Has the “artist” exhibited violent outbursts previously?
4. If the child had drawn a picture of himself committing suicide and the teacher saw it and didn’t report it in my school system, the teacher would be sitting in Internal Investigations and would be referred to the PSC. What is the difference?
5. Of course we can’t know if the artist a Student with Disabilities? Due to fears about IDEA these students are given latitude for outrageous behavior that regular students would never receive.
Opinion: The drawing in and of itself is not disturbing? It is the labels of me and you that are disconcerting. Who knows if the “artist” knows where to find his parents’ handgun and bring it to school? One only needs to look at where the minds and famtasies of the Columbine killers were prior to their murderous rampage to be concerned about this. The parents are right to be concerned and should ask to have their child moved out of the classroom. Others principals and other school systems would handle this differently.

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@Greg Kaiser,

EXACTLY. If they had communicated, in the clear, effective manner that you laid out, they could have put the parents mind at ease. But instead, it looks like they went into “dance” mode, like the parents indicated.

And for some inexplicable reason, posters seem to support the school in doing this…

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My husband and Ihave raised two wonderful men who are married and have kids of their own. One son always drew weird pictures, some of which I framed because they are unique. Once a school teacher called us into a conference because, when this son was in the second grade, he drew pictures of people with one leg. The psychologist had a lot of concerns, but when we asked my son why he was doing this, he said it was too hard to draw two legs! Boys will always play with guns and pretend to shoot each other. For God’s sake, don’t you remember playing cowboys and indians? What has happened to this world? No wonder this young generation is a bunch of pantywaists!

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Boys will always play with guns and pretend to shoot each other. For God’s sake, don’t you remember playing cowboys and indians? What has happened to this world?

I’ll tell you what happened DeborahInAthens. Some boys, MANY boys stopped “playing” and started shooting for REAL. And many boys DIED, and are still DYING today.

That’s what happened DeborahInAthens. NOW do you understand?

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Making comments with the AJC is really difficult. I have to type extra slow so it can be read before posted. I do not see the seriousness of small children drawing a picture with them pointing a gunat therir best friend. It is play, and besides all the news is about violence. The old saying”if it bleeds it reads>” Maybe the media should soften their rhetoric about viloence.

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@Catlady, your comment: “Some of you who advocate ignoring this have NO IDEA what the school sees on a daily basis. It isn’t 1955 any more.” ***** I agree and respect your opinion, however, each case has to be judged on its on merit. If an investigation was required each time a second grader did something like this, there would be no time for teaching children.

Bev, your statement: “Yes Ronin, and THREE days is more than enough time to figure out if a student is willing to PHYSICALLY ASSAULT a school resource officer, he just MIGHT pose a threat to the safety of others.**** Your comparison of the two cases is ridiculous, a seven year old is not a threat. You better double up on the Xanax.

Going to the gym…

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The child in the picture, holding the gun, was probably contemplating the best way to obtain some Niki Air Jordans.

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“Beverly Fraud” sounds strikingly similar to the helicopter parent who made a big deal about a kid drawing a doodle. Regardless, she obviously has no idea that boys like to draw people shooting each other and also play with toy gun shooting each other. Furthermore, does she own a television? Kids shows regularly show the characters shooting each other…or gasp…fighting with each other. She better go out and sue the television networks for “harming” her child.

Over Christmas, I watched my little cousins run around the yard shooting each other with toy guns. I guess I should have called the cops and/or a mental institution so I could go ahead and stop this psychotic behaviour before these kids grow up to be murderers. Because their behaviour was “clearly” disturbing.

Uggghhh….its stories like this one, coupled with yesterday’s “Pagan” story, which really make we wonder why I even read this garbage.

I suggest that Maureen stop posting garbage like this and actually get back to real issues like cheating in schools.

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Beverly. If they did it was probably because they have dealt with this parent 100 times before this incident on even more trivial ” big deals”. I would bet their kid is an instigator who just hasn’t. Edn caught yet and these parents are playing offense as defense. Seen it 100 times.

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One of my kids is in kindergarten. There is a child in his class that repeatedly makes very odd comments to him like “I hope you drown and die” yet for some reason the teacher doesn’t think this is an issue because my kid is much bigger than this kid and is not at all afraid of him. My kid never says things like that back to the kid, but he does tell the teacher. He also tells us. After the 5th or 6th thing he told us about that involved the kid wishing my kid was somehow dead, my husband called the teacher and let her know that if it happens again we will demand a meeting with the principal and the other parents. The teacher’s answer? “But his mom is such a sweetheart.” Huh?

I am in the class regularly and I see the kid sneaking up to other kids with his fist balled up and talking in a low voice, making threats. I report what I see to the teacher and she will call him out and tell him to sit down. This is his second year in her kindergarten class. We have had it with this nonsense and the next time anything is said to my son that involves violence, I will just call that sweetheart of a mom myself. Don’t get me wrong – I don’t think this kid could hurt my kid – but that kind of behavior is just disturbing. And we are in a “top” northside elementary school and the parents live in a million dollar neighborhood. No thug upbringing here. Perhaps that is why the school doesn’t seem to be taking this seriously….

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If the kid wears a black trenchcoat and listens to Goth and is emotionally removed sure. if the kid saw a western movie or something then no.

I mean kids today are pu$$es. When I grew up we played cowboys and indian and war. I remember seeing Raiders of Lost Ark as a small small child at the theater. It affected me nill.Parents wont let their kids watch part of Disney now. Then their kids grow up unable to handle the inevitable stress of life…How payment behind…walk away. Wife complaining….walk away. Kids are sheltered from hardships so they grow up to walk away from them.

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Once class of 4th graders had a list on the wall before Christmas of what they wanted. I noticed one that seemed strange: Remington. I asked the boy why he wanted an electric razor–was it for his dad? It turns out his primary wish was for a gun! Why? So he could go out and kill things for fun!

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I am glad I am too young to play guns anymore. I use to smile too while paying guns with my brother. I might be committed to the psych ward if I plyed with the former educators child. The real tragedy is this person actually taught other children and there are many more educators like him.

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“The young boy who shot Kayla was a known trouble maker, had been suspended several times for using the f-word, his father is an ex-con, the gun used had been traded for with drugs.”

If the comparison is NOT valid, then why wouldn’t the office and the teacher simply say “There have been no threats of violence toward your child this year” (And yes you CAN say this without saying anything SPECIFIC about a particular child)

And where is the child’s TEACHER in all of this? No one finds it odd that the parent hasn’t mentioned what the teacher thinks? Is the teacher (who perhaps knows ALL TOO WELL the other child is a behavior problem) being silenced by administration?

Again go back to Greg Kaiser’s post. I ask myself, based on the QUESTIONS raised, what is MOST likely:

The school communicated OPENLY and HONESTLY?

The parents are out of control helicopter parents?

As much as I know FULL WELL the dangers of helicopter parents, I’m thinking the school has NOT been open and honest with the parents.

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Beverly has made excellent points… and those that demean the parents for questioning the school authorities are missing the point. My question… if the drawing had been the two “you” and “me” stick figures shooting the teacher/other school officials… would the school have taken it so lightly? The fact that the 7 yr old drew it is not remarkable… it is when he labeled the shooter and victim and then gave the picture to his classmate… definitely a communication of a threat. Considering the school psychologist was not fully informed before a decision of “no threat” was determined is indicative of trying to cover it up so it will go away.

The writers’ comments regarding schools is exactly on target… any time a school is charged with not providing something the answer is that they need parental involvement. Now a parent takes the responsible approach to come to them and inquire of possible remedies and they are blown off. Maybe the parents should have just done what everyone else seems to do… sue the administration for their incompetence. School administrations want all the authority, but think they can wield it without taking any responsibility.

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@Questions

My statements show nothing about what knowledge I have about a classroom. Also, just because you disagree with my observations doesn’t make your OPINION correct. If you feel like a picture drawn by a child is cause for the blatant overreaction here then go ahead and feel that way. (And YES this was an overreaction on the parents part – this is a matter that at best should have illicited a phone call to a teacher, instead it turned into an investigation and has now spilled over into the media. In fact, I believe “overreaction” hardly even begins to describe the ridiculousness of this).

Regardless, just because you feel like this is a “serious” issue doesn’t mean that I won’t feel that you, Beverly Fraud, and the mother who started this ridiculousness, should find better things to do with their time than worry about a picture. You do realize that there are more important things in the world like oh I don’t know, Genocide in Africa, starvation, totalitarian governments ruling people, the very real danger that Obama will be re-elected. You know serious issues.

Ugghhh…I have real work to do now.

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Ok, now another LEGITIMATE question to ask the “advocate parents” if they really are NOT being helicopter parents:

Maureen, can you ask if they went to the TEACHER first? You know, the one who is with BOTH children, EVERY day?

Now if they went STRAIGHT to the office, WITHOUT involving the teacher, I’ll start to side with the rest of you. Of course an EFFECTIVE principal would say “Please go talk to the teacher FIRST. If you still aren’t satisfied, please come see me”

But then again, that would require PEOPLE skills, something in perilously short supply in education, if not the world these days.

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Ty. You seriously have no idea what a school administrator deals with day in and day out. What an ignorant statement. Again this sue em entitlement crap is what is killing the school systems in this country. No one owes these people anything. If they don’t like the way the school handled it they have other options but they merely want to control everything in this school. Someone has to be in charge and it simply cannot be each and every parent.

They need to get over themselves.

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Questions, I have a Question for you:

Would you be the LEAST bit surprised if the principal DIDN’T involve the teacher, out of fear the teacher would admit the “artist” in question has been a HUGE behavior problem?

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SouthGADawg…. the situations you mention at the end of your post are definitely more important on a world stage… and to the rest of us. But to that parent whose child received what COULD be a threat, their child is their world. Why is it an overreaction for them to have gone to the school administrators to inquire if there was any risk? The manner in which events unfolded did not ease their concern so they pressed for more information… and now that is considered “overreaction”? You mention totalitarian governments… but give a pass to a school administration who says that they will tell you what they want and you just have to accept it.

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“Beverly, schools cannot to everything!!! A

@William Casey, I’m not expecting them to do, “everything”?

But if a parent came to you and said “You say Jimmy the Artist (no I’m not trying to paint the boy as a Mafia thug wearing a wife-beater LOL) is not a threat to my child. Can you explain, so I can be AT EASE, why you feel this way?”

Wouldn’t you have an answer?

And if the school counselor was in the same meeting, and let it slip words to the effect of “Oh, I didn’t know about THAT” wouldn’t you say that’s an example of administration NOT communicating effectively?

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Man Up… why the insults? I know quite a bit about school administrations. My comment about suing the school was tongue in cheek sarcasm… obviously above your head. I think the number of lawsuits in general, and specifically towards school administrations is ludicrous. How about the administrator who suspended a middle school boy for giving a friend a hug? It has gotten absolutely silly out there. Drawing or doodling what the boy did is not an issue… passing it on, specifically identifying that he was thinking of causing harm to the recipient is what is the concern. Bullying comes in many shades… and needs to be stopped if it is evident. Does a drawing of violence automatically mean a danger … of course not… but then again, it at least indicates that the drawer/doodler should be counseled. His need to communicate his desires of violence needs to be addressed, not just blown off as vivid imagination.

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I think parents should stop being kids friends and stop playing golf, watching TV or whatever and start mentoring these kids into how to be men and women who have a work ethic and a code fo honor and values.

If my kid drew a picture of him killing someone it would be the last one he drew. Homie don’t play dat!

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@Beverly. I would be very surprised and disappointed if the principal was unaware of the child being a behavior problem. Children with behavior problems exhibit them in gym, in the hall, in the cafeteria, on the bus, etc. But then there are still some principals out there who are more interested in putting on a show than in maintaining discipline in their schools. Let me qualify this-the size of the school would make a difference. But if the principal didn’t know? The AP or Counselor would know in any well run elementary school. On the other hand, maybe the principal has been repeatedly second guessed by central office administrators who have repeatedly sided with the parents of children with behavior problems.

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I have just read all the posts to this article and many are clearly overreacting – I teach high school but in the past few years have taught as low as 5th grade – their are clear differences in ages and what is appropriate – the same drawing from a high schooler would get much more attention but it is age appropriate for a 2nd grader (I am a former art teacher so I do know what is age appropriate). I agree with the others who post that a one time drawing is not something to get up in arms about – the fact that the “victim” did not consider the other kid a friend doesn’t mean much – that designation changes constantly.
Beverly, you do not know the whole story and what you post is part of the problem – over-reaction without knowing all the facts and with a CLEAR bias – you do not know what school is being talked about but you have jumped to the assumption that the school is not trustworthy – lumping all schools with a few that have problems.
One thing that was mentioned early on but not paid much attention to is the fact that the school is legally bound to protect both children. That means investigating the incident on behalf of the “victim” and protecting the other child’s identity and rights (this protection is even more strict and all encompassing if the child is special ed in any way). It doesn’t matter if you think the school system should answer all the questions of the parents – in many cases they can’t legally.

The thing I find most interesting in the original story is that the parents did not talk to the teacher – it said that they inquired about the incident – not who they talked to – if they talked to the teacher I think that they would have said that so this means they went straight to the administrators – who do not know the kids in question as well as the teacher – which means part of their investigation was talking to the teacher and getting her opinion. Why didn’t the parents take this first step???

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Beverly… You ask why I stated that this “could” be a threat – and not assume it is? Because boys are known to do stupid things. I happen to agree with you that the drawing, labelled as it was, and thrust into the recipients hands, is most likely a threat. However, there is always the possibility that the artist is so enamored with his artistic ability that he thinks that the recipient should pay homage to him for featuring him! Unless you truly know the artist and donor’s everything is speculation. Which is probably why the parents were concerned to find out that the school psychologist was not fully consulted or that they were at least given an explanation by the administration of what was behind the picture in question.

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It doesn’t matter if you think the school system should answer all the questions of the parents – in many cases they can’t legally.

Yes @I’m a teacher, but that wouldn’t prevent the administration from saying “I am legally bound not to disclose certain specifics but…these are the GENERAL procedures we use…”

The BIGGEST thing at this point for me is this: Did the parents go to the TEACHER first?

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@Homeschooler: I am very relieved your child is at home, and not in my child’s classroom. My son also has those interests, and is not stifled. However, if he ever felt the need to draw anyone “hanging”, he would very quickly be taught the difference between a personal interest and an outward threat. The first lesson is of respect for others; a child (boy or other) needs to be taught that it is not acceptable to intimidate or cause a classmate to be fearful, regardless of one’s “intentions.” This is where you come in. Since, as you know, boys will be boys.

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There are all types of guns. Perhaps the gun in the drawing was a water-gun? Just another storm in a teacup.

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“Again, the assumption is that the school is evil and the parents are right…”

Well I’m a teacher, when you are EVASIVE you kind of bring THAT on yourself.

“Why trust a school psychologist who may have never met these two boys over the teacher’s opinion who deals with these students on a daily basis.”

I bet the parents in question (PLEASE come on this blog!) would say that’s not the point. The point is, after TWO days of full “investigation” why (if true) is the school psychologist saying words to the effect of “I didn’t know THAT about the drawing; that is a concern”

Kind of makes one think that this “full investigation” didn’t even including the psychologist looking at the drawing in question, doesn’t it?

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Thanks I’m a Teacher for reminding us how the incident could fit into the current focus on bullying. That is why I know some principals would have handled thus differently, particularly a school that has had ongoing problems with bullying. And to all of you who just dismiss everyone concerned about the drawing as pansies, etc., I assume you would have no concerns if your 2d grader drew a picture of him shooting you, his parent.

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@ I’m a teacher, you say

“I can guarantee that they will be watched from now on to insure that it does not turn into a bullying case…”

-Yet Gwinnett FALSIFIES over 40 THOUSAND discipline reports. And this FALSIFIED report is signed off on at the highest levels.

-Yet APS says there were ZERO discipline incidents in FORTY schools and Kathy Augustine says “our reforms are working so well, there are no discipline problems to report”

Yet you can “guarantee” that this school will act with INTEGRITY and protect the child from any threats in the future?

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@frustrated APS Mom. Most schools would have notified you if your child had been punched, and would have suspended the puncher. And all of this is happening in a Buckhead school? The school can’t be as good as you think it is if this kind of stuff goes on unchecked.

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no physical contact was made – if the “victim” did not show the picture to anyone at the school – how was the school supposed to know about it? Again there are a lot of holes in this story and a lot of assumptions being made based on the reporting by the one set of parents – who have one clearly defined perspective.

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Oh yes, smack in the middle of Buckhead. I get the distinct impression from our school that they don’t want anyone to know about any discipline problems there, so they are swept under the rug. And the kid that hit mine is at Lovett this year. I wonder if he would have been accepted if there had been anything on his record about that incident….

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@APS Mom. That is why I said some principals are still more interested in putting on a show and Keeping Up Appearances. Sounds like the principal has created an unhealthy culture at he school. Things can only be swept under the rug for so long before there is a dust storm.

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BF, do you have a child in school today?

You might not be aware of this policy, teachers are not allowed to discuss anything that may be a privacy issue. So, the teacher in my child’s class cannot divulge who hit my child nor divulge who my child hit.

I got a report from the teacher that my child pushed another child while they were waiting in line…so I went to the teacher to ask who my child pushed so that I could ensure, with me witnessing, that my child properly apologized. The teacher said she could not divulge the name of the child my child pushed for privacy issues. It is a school policy.

So, in answer to your comments and other comments like yours…the teacher is not allowed to comment. A parent going to the school counselor IS the right thing to do because the counselor is trained to handle these type of situations, teachers aren’t and teachers cannot comment specifically on actions like these anyway.

A teacher cannot be expected to know how to teach academics, administer discipline, be a psychoanalyst and a nurse to boot. We recognize this and that’s why we have laws in Georgia requiring every school to have a counselor and a nurse (even when the nurse and counselor have to cover two schools.)

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But we don’t know how the teacher reacted or what protocols are in place at this school for addressing parental concerns.

I’m a Teacher-What would happen in your school system if you did not report a child drawing a picture killing himself to the counselor, and the parent complained?

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Again Good Mother that is a RED HERRING.

An EFFECTIVE school administrator can say “While I can’t discuss SPECIFIC children’s names, I can say this is how, in GENERAL terms, we determine if a child is a threat”

But many schools can’t say that, because their “strategy” is to ignore the waring signs until something TRULY bad happens. (See Westlake High)

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I agree with good mother – but also understand that in covering two schools their are other children they must see and the incident with your child may be low on the priority list. In this age of blame (and most of the previous posts bear evidence to that) Schools have to be ultra careful to protect everyone – have most of the bloggers switch the victim with the artist – that same parent would be complaining that their child’s innocent drawing was blown out of proportion in that case.

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Let’s also not forget that in the same way teachers were pressured to cheat on the CRCT tests, teachers are also (by their own admission) pressured to undereport violence, bullying and crime in schools.

As parents, knowing these facts, and knowing that teachers lied and cheated on CRCT tests, we cannot trust the teacher to tell us what is happening in school nor can we trust them to handle the situation with complete integrity.

Every parent has a right to be concerned about violence and bullying in school. Every parent has the right to address his or her concerns with whomever they deem it is appropriate to discuss it with and no one has a right to beat up on a parent for being involved and concerned about the possibility of bullying and violence. When a teacher lies and cheats on a CRCT test, they will also lie and cheat and underreport bullying and violence.

Once a teacher goes down that slippery slope of dishonesty and distrust, one cannot return.

It is interesting to note; however, that the same teacher-bloggers who criticize the parent for getting involved in this incident are the same teacher-bloggers who complain, at great length, ad nauseum, that they are not involved in their child’s education.

Duplicity, thy name is teacher-blogger.

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In response to Questions – about how this is handled in our school – a child hanging themselves is reported to counselors and administrators – something that is deemed a threat is also reported – again some of these are judgement calls on the teacher’s part – being trained in art – I have more training in what is an age appropriate drawing than most teachers – just the fact that the stick figures are smiling is less important to the colors used to draw them. Again – are there times when teachers get it wrong? yes. Are there times when administrators get it wrong? yes. Are there times when parent get it wrong? yes – over-reacting does not solve the problems – we do not live in a perfect world – things are going to happen and you need to teach kids how to deal with those time. And maybe the schools don’t report every single incident is because when they do they get hammered with criticism and it is used as an excuse to blast the public school system.

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HRPufnstuf @8:55: We got our cowboys and indians from the likes of Roy Rogers, Gene Autry and company. Even though they shot the bad guys 40 times with a six-shooter, we saw no blood, no sex, no drugs, no profanity; none of the trash that passes for entertainment these days. Even though I only watch news programs and sports on TV, I still am bombarded with promotions of stuff that children shouldn’t see.

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“And maybe the schools don’t report every single incident is because when they do they get hammered with criticism and it is used as an excuse to blast the public school system.”

FORTY SCHOOLS reporting ZERO discipline incidents is a FAR cry from saying “schools don’t report every single incident” (In fact when the AJC ran the story I think the figure cited statewide was that oven one MILLION incidents weren’t reported-maybe Maureen can confirm that)

Now as an art teacher, do you not find it at least a BIT more disconcerting that A) the child was given the drawing and B) the drawing was labeled?

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Beverly – the discipline reporting issue is a district level problem – show up to your school board meeting and demand explanations and action – that is a top level problem – the schools could have been reporting it to the district and the district not reporting it (you know – kind of like misrepresenting test scores?) But this specific incident is a minor example of the discipline issues that schools are faced with and if this is blown out of proportion – don’t you think that is cause for schools not to be so “open” about other problems for fear of the back-lash?

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If anything, this discussion illustrates the myriad of issues facing teachers every day, all of which impact the results of the far too many standardized tests we have to administer. People who spend little or no time in classrooms always seem to have overly simplistic solutions for meeting the challenges 21st century schools face every day. Maureen, these discussions are as important, and possibly more important than continually beating the tar out of the CRCT cheating scandal. And to go back to Ron Burgundy’s post, parents should be held accountable for their children’s behavior in school. This is one of the underpinnings of improving schools that seems to be left out of all reform efforts.

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Beverly – I guess we are perfect examples of this problem – your perspective is to that the administrators didn’t handle it perfectly (taking the time to answer all the parent’s concerns in a way that satisfied the parents) and mine that the parents are blowing this out of proportion (based on the evidence presented – that the parents are over-reacting – asking for the other child to be moved, not theirs) But I think we have come to a middle ground as to what the problems are and while we may never agree with the other – the communication has helped clear up some of the assumptions.

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But I think we have come to a middle ground as to what the problems are and while we may never agree with the other – the communication has helped clear up some of the assumptions.

And I would guess, @I’m a teacher, that THAT, more than anything, is what the parents were looking for.

I do think two things undermine their credibility (if true)

1) Why not go to the TEACHER first?

2) Why ask for the other child to be removed? (But again, if you think administration isn’t being OPEN and HONEST with you, and you want to protect your child…)

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I’m a teacher-you might be the first person to ever call me a teacher basher LOL

Just look at the moniker (but I say for the record, any resemblance to any real persons is PURELY coincidental)

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My only qualm with this is that the school is unable to facilitate a meeting between the parents. In all likelihood, the drawing is harmless…even if the child meant it as a threat it was more likely a hollow one like many threats made by children…but it’s certainly something worth bringing to the other parents attention and rationally discussing with them.

Unfortunately, it’s probably not wrong of the schools to assume that in most cases such conversations don’t go rationally. Still, the school should at least be able to pass the concerned parents contact information to the the other kids parents so that they can contact them directly if they’re willing to discuss the matter.

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Excuse the typos. Autocorrect and fat fingers are a horror.

If the parent really wants to talk to the other child’s parents I’m sure they can figure out a way to do so without school involvement. This isn’t what they want. They want to force the school to do what THEY want them to do. Why else send this to the paper? Crybaby didn’t get his way so he whines to Maureen, hoping it will put pressure on the school to do things the way he wants.

Baby.

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The way I figure it, the parents in this case were from New Jersey and wanted the student suspended, just like they do “up nawth”. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303796,00.html

Sounds to me the school exercised the proper amount of due diligence, investigated the incident, and concluded that a seven year old drawing pictures does not constitute an immediate threat that warranted further action.

Back when I was in school, they wouldn’t have given this a second thought. Of course, we toted pocket knives in first grade and played cowboys and indians during recess.

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Beverly; LEGITIMATE…INFORMED…CRITERIA…WE GOT IT!!!!!

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Decatur Parent, Your last post on December 29th at 1:33 was outstanding. I appreciate your comments.
GM

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Looking back through all these comments, I see where @Beverly Fraud posted 55 times this morning. Slow day down at MACE, I suppose….

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The kid used the wrong media. This is ATL, if he had written a song about it with a strong bass line, he would have made millions of $.

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LOL Bada…I know. The child was merely celebrating Atlanta culture…where the playas play.

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Looking back through all these comments, I see where @Beverly Fraud posted 55 times this morning. Slow day down at MACE, I suppose….

Lee if I were anywhere the MACE office, I would agree with you.

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Yesterday Maureen was talking about fair treatment to allow pagans to wear animal pelts and antler headdresses and carry sankara stones and now this??? SHEEESH!

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If they outlaw Crayons, only outlaws will have Crayons! And they will probably color outside the lines.

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“Georgia’s premier school systems”–OXYMORON

“at an award-winning school”–Simply means this is school is one of “the least worst” schools.

Want an environment where your kid actually learns something in GA? Try a private school…

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But who amongst us possesses the wisdom and intelligence to best determine what is a “reasonable risk” and what constitutes an “informed” decision? Obviously, the answer could only be…….Beverly Fraud.

Well drew, (former teacher) I think if you give parents INFORMATION then they can make an INFORMED decision.

But here’s what I think drew. (Could be wrong I admit) The school KNOWS they have a major behavior problem on their hands, and that’s why they are in “duck and cover” mode with the parents.

The teacher KNOWS the other child (again, ONLY a guess) is a major behavior problem, but doesn’t get administrative support.

So the administration DELIBERATELY keeps the teacher “out of the loop” (meeting) so they can “spin it”

The parents aren’t buying it, so they are complaining to Maureen.

Given the SYSTEMIC DYSFUNCTION of schools, I’d place a wager that this is what is happening, even knowing FULL WELL the “helicopter parent” syndrome.

Not sure why others here, also knowing FULL WELL the systemic dysfunction of the schools, find it difficult to believe this a likely scenario.

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@aps parent if you have enough money and either the parents or the grandparents are partners in the right firm any child can get into Lovett initially.

Enough money gets them all into Woodward, Whitefield and Holy Innocence. The donations keep them their until they actually get arrested or are found on property with drugs.

Then they are back in public school with 3-5 day a week tutors doing all their homework, projects, etc.
Those of us who struggled to buy at the low end of the housing market still about $400,000 for a fixer upper, that is 45 years old, are then forced to try to afford private tutors. Surprise, surprise the award winning school has even more incompetent teacher’s (coaches) then the average school or the school who just make AYP. Then you are dealing with the Boosters and the pay for play. That is a whole different story.

It is the great indifference or incompetence called Georgia schools and that is why they remain at the bottom of the pile.

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Is it just me or does Beverly Fraud sound like an anal retentive?

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@ Beverly Fraud
Why don’t you take a break and quit trying to hijack this forum?

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I’m sorry soccermom, I didn’t realize their was LIMITED BANDWIDTH on this forum. And I thought the term “hijack” meant to post OFF topic.

There is this really neat feature on most computers called a SCROLL button. Let it be your friend and bypass Beverly Fraud if it’s really causing you discomfort.

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@Questions – 10:39am
Looks like you are the only one who has brought politics into this discussion.

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“. They need better oversight and customer service.”
This is why our schools are fading academically. Schools should not be about customer service. The foolish pursuit of this is short changing our students from a solid education.

Schools are not Starbucks. You should not get to order your custom education like you would an overpriced mocha latte. Your snowflakes should come to learn and you should be grateful they have the opportunity to do so on a free country no matter what your station in life. This doesn’t happen anywhere else in the world and all you entitlement wimps and whiners can do is biotch about it and tear it down

Pathetic.

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Cat fight between Fraud and soccermom?? Meow!

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I agree Man up. I mean we have to watch what we pack our kids for lunch cause little Parker who is in his class is allergic to everything except rice cakes. I mean take these bad kids andstick them in a room and then take the kids with allergies and put them in a room and take the wuss kids who have “open minded humanist parents” and put them in a room and let the real americans get on with book learnin’!

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@the REAL Beverly Fraud.

Whatever else your failings, your posts always contain the correct grammar and spelling. That in itself is the giveaway that the BF at 2:44, 2:45, and I guess 2:52 is not you…from the last posting, I would guess the poster is about the age of the two 2nd-graders in question.

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Thank you Observer for noting that!

Hey Dr. Proud Black Man. Perhaps I am a little obsessive at times about blogging. I MUST admit that LOL

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reason to be concerned? hell yes.

someone who knows what they are doing AND NOT PUSHING AN AGENDA needs to have a gentle conversation with the kid. find out what’s what.

reason to dramatically overreact? hell no.

not that that will stop anyone

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Katrina Lynn says about this incident that “Both kids need to go see the social worker. The artist, because this should be looked into deeper, and the other boy because apparently he is being raised to believe only he is important. Move on…”

What evidence, Katrina Lynn, what facts do you have that we don’t know? You must know something we don’t because you say that the “the other boy because apparently he is being raised to believe only he is important.”

How do you draw the conclusion that the other boy is being raised to believe only he is important?

The parents are getting involved. They saw a concern and they addressed it. Why does that make you believe that they are raising their child to be selfish?

Please enlighten us.

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Enter your comments here

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_\____________________,,__
/ `–│││││││││————_]
/_==o ____________________/
),—.(_(__) /
// (\) ),—-/
//_____//
/`—-’ /
/______ /

Relax folks. It’s just a drawing. It can’t hurt you (unless you live if one of the politically correct Blue states…)

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. _\____________________,,__
. / `–│││││││││————_]
. /_==o ____________________/
. ),—.(_(__) /
. // (\) ),—-/
. //___//
. //—//
. //___//

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No Hillbilly D. It would be the administration’s fault for not making sure all the dirt and pine ones weren’t cleared away so the snowflakes can’t br tempted to pick them up and throw them.

Fire the principal!!

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And of course people are missing the point. It’s not that the child in question was or was not held accountable for their actions.

It’s that the school (in the poster’s opinion) didn’t shoot straight with the parents.

No pun intended.

Go back and read Greg Kaiser’s post: I get the feeling if the school had the school hadn’t been “evasive” the parents wouldn’t have “overreacted”

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@ Beverly

I suspect you and I both know if the school had no done something adn the kid had

the same parents who are outraged by by the action would be equally outraged by the inaction.

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You know bootney I’ve already admitted that is i distinct possibility. Which is why I ask, if you aren’t just trying to raise a stink, why didn’t you, as a former teacher of all things, go to the teacher FIRST?

But I also know that “duck and cover” has, for all practical purposes, become parts of many school systems’ DNA.

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A Math problem for the Education Blog……
A pair of Air Jordans……$180
2 gallons of gas to drive to the store………..$6.50
Donuts and coffee while waiting in line…….$4.50
Ditching work and losing a day’s pay……..$100
What is the total cost of the shoes, including Bail?

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My 7th grader was grabbed by an 8th grader on the bus and choked until other students could pull the older and much bigger child off of him. When I talked with the school administration about the issue and asked to view the school bus tape, it mysteriously disappeared and they blamed my son for refusing to move from the seat he was in (his assigned bus seat by the way). Eventually the 8th grader was suspended from the bus for 2 weeks. His mother was so upset. She had to leave a couple of tennis matches early to pick him up.

The school also wanted to give my child detention. They stated that was because the school no tolerance policy administers a punishment to both students involved in a fight or incident.
I told them my child would only receive detention if I was permitted to choke the administrator to the point of leaving large bruises and then the administrator was suspended without pay for the “fight”. Needless to say my son did not receive detention.

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They stated that was because the school no tolerance policy administers a punishment to both students involved in a fight or incident.

I know that is the policy at most schools but it’s the dumbest damn thing I’ve ever heard of. In my opinion, if somebody is choking you or hitting you, pushing you, etc. you not only have the right to strike back, it’s your obligation. There’s a lot of talk about bullying in schools, these days, but yet they don’t see the correlation between bullying and a no tolerance policy. It’s like giving the bullies a license to bully. They know another kid will be hesitant to fight back because he’ll get in trouble, too. A bloody nose is the best way to curtail a bully.

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Ron, your sarcasm is heartwarming. I asked to see the bus tape to determine exactly what happened. Strangely enough it disappeared. The statements from other students on the bus and the attacker confirmed that it was all over wanting my son to give him his seat.
And Hillbilly, I have told me children that they will never be in trouble with me for a suspension that is in self defense. Schools even with cameras take this stance as the easy out. They don’t have to figure out who is at fault, just suspend them all.

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Hey @Beverly, this drawing is for you:

. _\____________________,,__
. / `–│││││││││————_]
. /_==o ____________________/
. ),—.(_(__) /
. // (\) ),—-/
. //___//
. //—//
. //___//

:::Theme from Jeopardy:::

Oh well, nothing happened. I guess your analogy was incorrect.

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You know, if the parents DID want to make a a big deal about it, you’d think they’d come on this blog and comment.

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BTW, the @Beverly meter is up to 78 posts, just for today. Keep going and you might break 100.

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“Upset by the possible implications of the sketch, the former educator…”

I am relieved that your buddy is a ‘former’ educator. He clearly lacks the temperament and maturity to deal with young children. Little boys draw pictures of guns and shooting, always have and always will. Your ex-teacher apparently would turn them into little gelding liberals.

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Speaking of kids and drawings….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1qQBOYAPN0

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And Beverly is absolutely right. “Situations” will occur in any system, the problem is the evasiveness with which DCSS handles them. When administration looks parents in the eye, acknowledges that they have a valid complaint, that the complaint is taken seriously, and that the administration actually cares about doing the right thing instead of trying to duck and cover… THEN they deserve to be trusted, and Beverly won’t have to spend her day defending her very valid points against people who don’t “get it”.

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@Really. Based on the original post from Maireen, it is obvious that these parents are not in DeKalb. They are somewhere west of Atlanta. And after all the second guessing and ridiculous I’ll informed postings, why would they open themselves up to this insanity by posting on this blog? I also have a difficult time believing that after all that has transpired in DCSS that an Area Superintendent would covet up any type of legitimate bullying. I wpoukd have taken it tonthe Superintendent or filed a police report if my daughter had been subjected to that type of treatment, what parts of this story have been left out?

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And it sounds as if either Dunson or Bradshaw was the Area Superimtendent. And @Lee, you need to get a life if your excitement comes from counting Beverly’s posts.

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@Questions: As I mentioned, there was a police report, actually there were several – one for each victim. Iif you can get DCSS police to give you a copy of the police reports, please let me know how. Even the victims’ parents can’t get a copy. Everyone got the runaround for months. They won’t give you a report without knowing the claim number. Yet there seems to be no one who actually “knows” the claim number. As for the superintendent, I wouldn’t say he “covered it up”, but I think he definitely wanted it kept quiet because before the “s” hit the fan with the community, one of the victim’s parents went to his office with a 2-page handwritten letter about her daughter’s ordeal, and stood outside his office for an hour waiting for him to come talk to her. Not only did he not come out, he never called her or emailed her to acknolwedge the letter. When 6 community members and parents came to his office, including that same parent (and representing an additional 40 community members), he admitted vaguely recalling her letter and said he called the principal and the principal said it was taken care of, and since the principal had a clean record, he never followed up. It is my opinion that the area super just wanted the whole thing to go away without much attention, so he delayed and delayed the resolutions, offered to transfer victims to other schools, and did “just enough” to show that it would appear on paper that he took it seriously. Over 20 community families left our school over this – most left DCSS all together. We have a 50 page binder documenting the ordeal, but no time or energy to put it into a book. Most folks who were involved were so completely overwhelmed and exhausted by the ordeal (DCSS’s delay tactics turned this into a 6 month nightmare until most of us finally decided not to return to the school) that we just want it behind us. By the time press members and DCSS internal affairs started interviewing us about it, we just wanted to move on, focus on positive futures for our families, and hope that the incoming new super would be able to work miracles. I’m embarrassed to say their stalling and deflecting tactics won, but happy to report that everyone who left has well-adjusted children who are thriving in their new environments. We are an entire community watching and waiting for Dr. Atkinson to do her thing!

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“Boys will be boys” was a descriptive term used in more innocent time when boys were allowed to be boys and grow up playing sports, learned to shoot weapons and use weapons appropriately, and do all the activities males are naturally programmed to do. The simplicity of the mores and morals dictated how far someone could “act out” without being considered a “violent” threat to society, including children. Fist fights and playing “chicken” on the playground using pocket knives rarely ended in someone getting hurt. Playing with toy guns, bows and arrows that shot real arrows was not a major concern, unless the child did actually have behavior problems. Schools addressed those issues swiftly, especially in affluent areas. Did children ever hurt each other in pure carelessness of childish reasoning? Naturally. The difference between the the mores, ethics and morals of today is the words, “shame”, “embarrassment”, “accountability”, etc., have become four-letter words. There is little regret over committing criminal acts or threatening someone. Children from across the socio-economic system are taught hardly anything about morals: its about breaking rules and not getting caught. The violent images on television, in music, etc., were not as prevalent in earlier decades. Violence is condoned. Violence is caused now by drugs that are supposed to “control”, “subdue”, and make naturally active children so docile and drugged that they no longer know what natural play is all about and that the natural play is a normal precursor to normal adulthood. Religious instruction is virtually absent, thus rendering the human mind without an authoritative foundation for any level of INTERNALIZED morality and subsequent ethics. Again, its don’t break the “rules”. But not the same consequences apply as in earlier decades. We can no longer accept the rationalizations that “boys will be boys”. They are not allowed to be healthy boys. Drugs are causing violence against schoolmates. Absentee parents are causing children not to have a balanced upbringing whereof they are taught appropriate social behavior and MORALITY. If in today’s lack of balanced moral economy, another child would playfully threaten my child, I would have concerns: is the child on drugs? is the child coming from a violent homelife, where there might be child neglect and abuse? why is he threatening another child even playfully? If indeed the child is just pretending and the other child is laughing, we can maybe assume the children are just being children. But I don’t think we can across the board in this socially confused paradigm assume that someone, child or adult, is just expressing a playful attitude. However, instead of immediately labeling someone, it would be healthier for everyong concerned if the child/parents were questioned in an atmosphere of privacy, safety, and respect. When the questioning has satisfactorily established the truth, then we may assume that “boys will be boys’. On that note, I would not allow my child to express any form of unacceptable aggression towards others, even playfully. There is a time for aggressive expression, which should receive adult guidance from day one, instead of waiting until the child has reached an age where he has received no instruction for discernment of when and where to express various forms of aggression.

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Your friend is long-winded if nothing else.

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Dekalb County School System is not “premiere”. That can’t be where this incidence took place….or have I missed a side-discussion in the comments?

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Two separate incidents are being discussed at this point, jarvis. The DCSS one is not the one originally posted about. We don’t know where that took place unless I have missed something.

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With the hectic pace of the Holiday Season, I haven’t had much time to post anything, although I do see that my cousin Earl jumped on here a couple or three times. He better watch out! The Mrs. doesn’t take too kindly to him spending any time on the blogs.

As usual, Beverly Fraud brings home the reality of what goes on in our public schools, especially the urban systems where discipline is virtually a foreign concept. I just looked at some pickets that we did against Crawford Lewis back in 2009. One was in the driving, pouring down rain. It was flooding and we were picketing. In fact, we left that picket, and we picketed the Clayton County Board of Education that evening before the school board took the fateful vote on hiring Edmond Heatley as superintendent. I guess MACE was right on both of these guys, right?

Back to the stormy picket in front of the DeKalb Central Office… One of our signs read: “DeKalb Discipline: An Oxymoron!” Posters Really??? and Beverly Fraud are right…the administrators just duck and roll and try to avoid taking a stand on any disciplinary situation. It is really pitiful. The kids in these systems don’t have much of a chance when they have such weak-kneed administrators who will not keep order in the schools. Safety is a real issue. Just look at what has taken place at Fulton’s Westlake High School in recent months.

I see that the DeKalb Grand Jury just voted to investigate the school board, especially about the hiring of the new superintendent. Apparently, the grand jury will look at the process, the leaks, etc. Hmm.

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I don’t know the definition of ‘gansta’ but I do know that our school system WASTES more money (and I consider much of the legal fees waste) than most school systems across the US total annual budgets. King & Spalding are certainly quite grateful to have the account, and most likely use their windfall from DCSS to send their own children to nice private schools.

I agree that school systems have become nothing but big bloated bureaucracies full of educrats with inflated salaries and the accompanying inflated egos. The task of actually educating children is an aside and occurs on a hit or miss schedule, depending on a few qualified, dedicated teachers and/or students from households that work very hard to embellish at home what is missing in the school curriculum. So yes, in spite of a very poor overall system, which serves first and foremost to create jobs for adults and transfer wealth to adults, we do have occasional student success stories to hold up as examples and excuses to continue with the ‘plan’.

A large number of students however, do not receive the most basic of life skills and left functionally illiterate and innumerate, certainly are ill-prepared for success in society, therefore most likely creating a generation of what some may refer to as ‘gangstas’. Sadly, to that point, the latest news is that in addition to a $19 million or so school system police force (jobs program for adults), we will now be treated to parole officers in our schools – for convenience. Wow.

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When my son was in 3rd grade he drew a picture of a gun during the school day. We were given the choice by the school to either go to professional counseling, or they would press charges. We went to a therapist, of course, who was genuinely perplexed about why we needed him. My take on it: my son was probably disruptive, probably bored, but was not going to shoot anyone and did not pose a terroristic threat. I am sorry if the child in the above situation was scared by the picture, but I agree with others who have said that schools will not let boys be boys.

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@RV, re: “When my son was in 3rd grade he drew a picture of a gun during the school day. We were given the choice by the school to either go to professional counseling, or they would press charges.”

I’m just curious what charges the school could bring against a child who drew a picture? I think I would have called their bluff…

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Nana, you want to crucify a child for drawing a picture?

I’m glad you were never my ‘nana.’

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