A second grader draws one person shooting another and labels them “me” and “you.” Cause for concern?
UPDATE: Folks, I closed comments on this at 10 p.m. Friday. Have a great holiday weekend. Maureen
A former-teacher-turned-advocate has been talking to me about an incident involving his second grader and a classmate. The classmate had handed his child a drawing of one figure shooting another. The boy labeled the shooter “me” and the victim “you.” In the primitive sketch, both the stick figure shooter and the victim are smiling.
Upset by the possible implications of the sketch, the former educator and his wife went to the school but were unhappy with how their concerns were addressed.
Here is a description he wrote about the entire experience. What do you think?
I am a former educator and most recently represented educators on various issues. One would be hard pressed to find a parent more understanding of the demands facing educators today. Schools often talk about their desire to have parental involvement in the education process. This has been the retort anytime challenges present themselves in the school system – “We need more parental involvement, more parents who care.”
So when parents seek open lines of communication and have questions about the learning environment of their child, one would expect the school to welcome collaboration rather than a seemingly ritualistic dance around the issue. My family recently experienced “the dance” from one of Georgia’s premier school systems at an award-winning school when our child was given a picture drawn by a second-grade classmate of a person shooting someone. Most disturbing were the captions; the artist labeled the shooter “me” and the victim “you.”
When our child told us about the picture, we were appalled that school officials had not contacted us immediately. Without knowing the severity of the threat, the school could have demonstrated some care and concern, if its administrators had been proactive, and at least informed us. Nothing.
We went to the school the next morning to inquire about the situation and were told that the administration was going to contact my family “after an investigation was complete.” We were told that the administration was going to ask the school resource officer to look at it and make a determination. To the school’s credit, they later involved the school counselor and the school psychologist.
When speaking with a direct report to the superintendent of the school system about why school psychologists were not automatically involved, we were told, “School psychologists can just say whatever you want them to say; you can pay them to say anything.” I have tremendous respect for school psychologists and was gravely disappointed to hear this from a central office official.
The investigation was deemed complete after two days, and the conclusion was that our child was not in any danger. We asked for the other child to be placed in another class. That was denied immediately. We are still struggling with questions.
–Why was this given to our child? We were told that this child had an entire notebook of pictures.
– Our child has never considered this classmate a friend. When we shared this info with the school along with the fact that our child had not had good interactions with this child, it did not change their perspective.
–Who are the people labeled “me” and “you?”
–Did they find this picture developmentally appropriate for a second grader?
– We were told the school determined that our child is not in any danger. What made them sure of this?
The school psychologist admitted that she was not given all of the information and indicated that the picture was concerning. When we met with the principal, she ended our meeting by saying, “I don’t think there is anything left to discuss.” She did not ask if our child felt safe or if we still had concerns.
When we asked to meet with the other parents so that we could figure this out, we were told that the school does not facilitate parental meetings. If our child had given this drawing to anyone, my wife and I would be crawling over each other to apologize to the family of the other child.
Neither the school nor the system did anything to make sure that our child or my wife and I were comfortable with how the situation was addressed. They were more concerned with protecting the rights of the child who gave the picture to my son.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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281 comments Add your comment
Ron Burgundy
December 29th, 2011
2:25 pm
“But but but I am an ex teacher so I know a lot and now I am also an advocate for….stuff. This kid drew a gun and said he would shoot my angel named Ethan or Carter or Dylan. I am scared to bring my son to this award winning world reknown school!”
soccermom
December 29th, 2011
2:33 pm
@ Beverly Fraud
Why don’t you take a break and quit trying to hijack this forum?
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
2:33 pm
Or the kid ALREADY shows signs of violent behavior, the school KNOWS it and the ex-teacher, who knows how the game is played, is getting the run around, and KNOWS it.
Which do you believe is more likely?
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
2:35 pm
I’m sorry soccermom, I didn’t realize their was LIMITED BANDWIDTH on this forum. And I thought the term “hijack” meant to post OFF topic.
There is this really neat feature on most computers called a SCROLL button. Let it be your friend and bypass Beverly Fraud if it’s really causing you discomfort.
BADA BING
December 29th, 2011
2:38 pm
They need to search all those 2nd graders. They are probably carrying weapons in their “Hello Kitty” lunchboxes.
soccermom
December 29th, 2011
2:43 pm
@Questions – 10:39am
Looks like you are the only one who has brought politics into this discussion.
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
2:44 pm
Hey look at me everyone!!! Imma smart person!
Man up
December 29th, 2011
2:47 pm
“. They need better oversight and customer service.”
This is why our schools are fading academically. Schools should not be about customer service. The foolish pursuit of this is short changing our students from a solid education.
Schools are not Starbucks. You should not get to order your custom education like you would an overpriced mocha latte. Your snowflakes should come to learn and you should be grateful they have the opportunity to do so on a free country no matter what your station in life. This doesn’t happen anywhere else in the world and all you entitlement wimps and whiners can do is biotch about it and tear it down
Pathetic.
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
2:51 pm
It’s REALLY pathetic when all you can do is hijack another blogger’s name, because you can’t stand on your OWN WORDS person who posted at 2:44 and 2:45
Ron Burgundy
December 29th, 2011
2:53 pm
Cat fight between Fraud and soccermom?? Meow!
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
2:54 pm
Like I would say something THAT pedestrian @ 2:52
Ron Burgundy
December 29th, 2011
2:55 pm
I agree Man up. I mean we have to watch what we pack our kids for lunch cause little Parker who is in his class is allergic to everything except rice cakes. I mean take these bad kids andstick them in a room and then take the kids with allergies and put them in a room and take the wuss kids who have “open minded humanist parents” and put them in a room and let the real americans get on with book learnin’!
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
2:56 pm
Nope Ron, catfight between a fraudulent poster and soccermom. If THEY don’t like what soccermom has to say then let them say it.
I merely pointed out she could use the scroll button if she didn’t like what I posted. “Stinky breath”? That’s just completely ignorant.
Observer
December 29th, 2011
2:58 pm
@the REAL Beverly Fraud.
Whatever else your failings, your posts always contain the correct grammar and spelling. That in itself is the giveaway that the BF at 2:44, 2:45, and I guess 2:52 is not you…from the last posting, I would guess the poster is about the age of the two 2nd-graders in question.
BADA BING
December 29th, 2011
3:00 pm
What about Little Johnny’s Constitutional Right to bear Crayons? Are they going to take the #12 (Blood Red) color out of the 144 Pak, just because of this incident?
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
3:02 pm
Thank you Observer for noting that!
Hey Dr. Proud Black Man. Perhaps I am a little obsessive at times about blogging. I MUST admit that LOL
Pizza
December 29th, 2011
3:05 pm
I’ve got to see the picture first, interview the children and consider the home environment of the “shooter.” Hard to make a correlation between a picture of a gun and a real weapon.
If the child and his parents feel threatened they might well move to somewhere safe, but this environment isn’t going to change for the better over how the picture is interpreted. (Doubt they will feel safe anywhere.)
(No, we don’t have guns in our home.)
bootney farnsworth
December 29th, 2011
3:09 pm
reason to be concerned? hell yes.
someone who knows what they are doing AND NOT PUSHING AN AGENDA needs to have a gentle conversation with the kid. find out what’s what.
reason to dramatically overreact? hell no.
not that that will stop anyone
Hillbilly D
December 29th, 2011
3:10 pm
When I was a kid, we threw pine cones and dirt clods at each other, for fun. Guess if it was today, we’d all be in the penetentiary.
To Katrina Lynn from Good Mother
December 29th, 2011
3:40 pm
Katrina Lynn says about this incident that “Both kids need to go see the social worker. The artist, because this should be looked into deeper, and the other boy because apparently he is being raised to believe only he is important. Move on…”
What evidence, Katrina Lynn, what facts do you have that we don’t know? You must know something we don’t because you say that the “the other boy because apparently he is being raised to believe only he is important.”
How do you draw the conclusion that the other boy is being raised to believe only he is important?
The parents are getting involved. They saw a concern and they addressed it. Why does that make you believe that they are raising their child to be selfish?
Please enlighten us.
GM of IST @ CCDOE in GMU
December 29th, 2011
3:48 pm
Cause for concern? No. It’s a stupid drawing. These parents need to take an enema and calm down.
And Beverly Fraud obviously needs a job or something else to occupy her plentiful time.
GM of IST @ CCDOE in GMU
December 29th, 2011
3:56 pm
Enter your comments here
catlady
December 29th, 2011
3:59 pm
It’s the teachers’ fault.
Lee
December 29th, 2011
4:14 pm
_\____________________,,__
/ `–│││││││││————_]
/_==o ____________________/
),—.(_(__) /
// (\) ),—-/
//_____//
/`—-’ /
/______ /
Relax folks. It’s just a drawing. It can’t hurt you (unless you live if one of the politically correct Blue states…)
Lee
December 29th, 2011
4:15 pm
Well, that didn’t work as well as the drawing I copied it from, lol
Lee
December 29th, 2011
4:18 pm
. _\____________________,,__
. / `–│││││││││————_]
. /_==o ____________________/
. ),—.(_(__) /
. // (\) ),—-/
. //___//
. //—//
. //___//
Lee
December 29th, 2011
4:19 pm
Okay, I give up.
Man up
December 29th, 2011
4:23 pm
No Hillbilly D. It would be the administration’s fault for not making sure all the dirt and pine ones weren’t cleared away so the snowflakes can’t br tempted to pick them up and throw them.
Fire the principal!!
brother bill
December 29th, 2011
4:27 pm
Thank goodness that the child did not bring in a Tweety-Bird keychain.
That could have resulted in dozens of gruesome deaths.
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
4:34 pm
And of course people are missing the point. It’s not that the child in question was or was not held accountable for their actions.
It’s that the school (in the poster’s opinion) didn’t shoot straight with the parents.
No pun intended.
Go back and read Greg Kaiser’s post: I get the feeling if the school had the school hadn’t been “evasive” the parents wouldn’t have “overreacted”
bootney farnsworth
December 29th, 2011
4:38 pm
looking at the bulk of these comments, I am reminded why we have such losers in DC & under the gold dome.
they reflect the “quality” of our citizenry.
bootney farnsworth
December 29th, 2011
4:40 pm
@ Beverly
I suspect you and I both know if the school had no done something adn the kid had
the same parents who are outraged by by the action would be equally outraged by the inaction.
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
4:40 pm
Now let me ask you Lee. Do you think if you posted that drawing, named a specific poster, and said this is for YOU, do you think Maureen would allow you to post it?
Because THAT would be a more accurate analogy.
Maybe Maureen can answer that.
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
4:43 pm
You know bootney I’ve already admitted that is i distinct possibility. Which is why I ask, if you aren’t just trying to raise a stink, why didn’t you, as a former teacher of all things, go to the teacher FIRST?
But I also know that “duck and cover” has, for all practical purposes, become parts of many school systems’ DNA.
Man up
December 29th, 2011
4:45 pm
No. I believe they did shoot straight. The parents just didn’t like what they said and commenced to whining and crying about it. My guess is that this happened at the end of the day, the admin has had to deal with Mr Advocate before and wanted to talk to the teacher and kids to see what had actually happened before contacting the parents, in order to have the facts straight. Since they didn’t put the entire school on hold for Mr Advocate’s snowflake Immediatly he got his thong in a bunch. Who cares about all the other people at the school and their issues, MY kid needs his special superduper attention treatment RIGHT NOW! I demand my immediate customer is always right satisfaction NOOOW!
BADA BING
December 29th, 2011
5:07 pm
A Math problem for the Education Blog……
A pair of Air Jordans……$180
2 gallons of gas to drive to the store………..$6.50
Donuts and coffee while waiting in line…….$4.50
Ditching work and losing a day’s pay……..$100
What is the total cost of the shoes, including Bail?
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
5:08 pm
You is all ignorant. EVERY ONE OF YALL IS!! My spelling on point!
Lynn
December 29th, 2011
5:13 pm
My 7th grader was grabbed by an 8th grader on the bus and choked until other students could pull the older and much bigger child off of him. When I talked with the school administration about the issue and asked to view the school bus tape, it mysteriously disappeared and they blamed my son for refusing to move from the seat he was in (his assigned bus seat by the way). Eventually the 8th grader was suspended from the bus for 2 weeks. His mother was so upset. She had to leave a couple of tennis matches early to pick him up.
The school also wanted to give my child detention. They stated that was because the school no tolerance policy administers a punishment to both students involved in a fight or incident.
I told them my child would only receive detention if I was permitted to choke the administrator to the point of leaving large bruises and then the administrator was suspended without pay for the “fight”. Needless to say my son did not receive detention.
Ron Burgundy
December 29th, 2011
5:15 pm
Lynn it is obvious from your post that your son did nothing wrong and was a “victim” of an out of the blue attack in which he nearly died. Only the love of his mother gave him the strength to survive.
Hillbilly D
December 29th, 2011
5:19 pm
They stated that was because the school no tolerance policy administers a punishment to both students involved in a fight or incident.
I know that is the policy at most schools but it’s the dumbest damn thing I’ve ever heard of. In my opinion, if somebody is choking you or hitting you, pushing you, etc. you not only have the right to strike back, it’s your obligation. There’s a lot of talk about bullying in schools, these days, but yet they don’t see the correlation between bullying and a no tolerance policy. It’s like giving the bullies a license to bully. They know another kid will be hesitant to fight back because he’ll get in trouble, too. A bloody nose is the best way to curtail a bully.
Mike Vick
December 29th, 2011
5:21 pm
Fight dogs…not kids.
Lynn
December 29th, 2011
5:30 pm
Ron, your sarcasm is heartwarming. I asked to see the bus tape to determine exactly what happened. Strangely enough it disappeared. The statements from other students on the bus and the attacker confirmed that it was all over wanting my son to give him his seat.
And Hillbilly, I have told me children that they will never be in trouble with me for a suspension that is in self defense. Schools even with cameras take this stance as the easy out. They don’t have to figure out who is at fault, just suspend them all.
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
5:45 pm
Man Up thinks
“No. I believe they did shoot straight.”
As much as some parents have a well deserved reputation for whining, what school has a reputation for “shooting straight” on discipline issues?
It would REALLY be interesting for the parents in question to come on here and answer some questions.
Lee
December 29th, 2011
5:45 pm
Hey @Beverly, this drawing is for you:
. _\____________________,,__
. / `–│││││││││————_]
. /_==o ____________________/
. ),—.(_(__) /
. // (\) ),—-/
. //___//
. //—//
. //___//
:::Theme from Jeopardy:::
Oh well, nothing happened. I guess your analogy was incorrect.
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
5:52 pm
We’ve yet to hear from Maureen, Lee.
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
5:54 pm
You know, if the parents DID want to make a a big deal about it, you’d think they’d come on this blog and comment.
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
5:58 pm
Lee my mother will be visiting the AJC offices tomorrow, and asking for clarification from Maureen personally.
But it does NOT mean she is a “helicopter parent”.
Lee
December 29th, 2011
6:00 pm
BTW, the @Beverly meter is up to 78 posts, just for today. Keep going and you might break 100.
Beverly Fraud
December 29th, 2011
6:03 pm
I’m just practicing my typing skills Lee. asdf jkl;
Barbeesha
December 29th, 2011
6:09 pm
“Upset by the possible implications of the sketch, the former educator…”
I am relieved that your buddy is a ‘former’ educator. He clearly lacks the temperament and maturity to deal with young children. Little boys draw pictures of guns and shooting, always have and always will. Your ex-teacher apparently would turn them into little gelding liberals.