Being pagan in Georgia: Do schools promote some religions while denigrating others?
UPDATE: Folks, I closed comments on this at 10 p.m. Friday. Have a great holiday weekend. Maureen
A common plaint on this blog is that religion has been banished from our public schools. The usual comment is that we have kicked God out of the schools.
But some argue that not all religions are met with hostility in the classroom, only those far outside the mainstream.
That complaint was made this month via an Internet campaign on behalf of a pagan family in Carroll County. Stephanie Turner said her 11-year-old son was singled out and punished after he took off the neopagan holiday of Samhain. Once the boy returned to class, his teacher allegedly questioned him and said, “Paganism is not a religion.” Then, the teacher assigned a class essay on “How Christmas started,” according to the complaint.
(You can read more details on the “Turner Family Support” Facebook page.)
I exchanged e-mails with Turner seeking information about her son’s experience, but then received a call from Selena Fox, founder and executive director of the Lady Liberty League, an organization that advocates for religious freedom for Wiccans, Neopagans and other nature religion practitioners.
A Wisconsin resident, Fox explained to me in our telephone conversation that she was calling on Turner’s behalf to let me know that they were attempting to meet with the school district. In the meantime, websites and pagan organizations that took up the Turner family cause urged people to send e-mails of protest to the Carroll school chief, principal and teacher. And apparently they did.
When I contacted Carroll County two weeks ago, spokeswoman Elena Schulenburg told me: We are currently working with the parent to review this matter. The e-mail was circulated over the weekend ahead of our opportunity to meet with the parent to discuss any concerns. As always, our focus is on the safety and welfare of all students.
Accompanied by four advocates including an attorney, Turner met with Carroll school officials on Dec. 12. She and her advocates issued a statement later on the outcome of that meeting: First, a sincere apology for recent events and misunderstandings has been given by school administration and accepted by the family. Second, the Bowdon Elementary School guidance counselor will educate staff and students about honoring and accepting the differences that make us individuals. Third, procedures have been put in place to ensure classroom activities don’t alienate students.
In a Dec. 13 radio interview on Pagan Warrior Radio hosted by Selena Fox, Turner thanked the national pagan community for its support, saying, “It has helped my son so much knowing that he is not alone.”
The New York Times has a good piece about the encroachment of religion in public schools. Several of the examples of proselytizing occurred in Southern schools.
The New York Times story notes:
At a school assembly here in South Carolina on Sept. 1, a preacher described how Christ saved him from drugs, telling his rapt audience that “a relationship with Jesus is what you need more than anything else.” A rapper shouted the Lord’s praise to a light show and most of the audience stepped forward to pledge themselves to Christ while a few remained, uncomfortable, in their seats.
Such overt evangelizing would not be unusual at a prayer rally, but this was a daytime celebration in a public school gymnasium, arranged by the principal for sixth, seventh and eighth graders. When the rapper posted a video on YouTube, announcing that “324 kids at this school have made a decision for Jesus Christ,” he drew unwelcome public and legal scrutiny to the event. It was the kind of religious advocacy that is increasingly coming to light, legal experts say, as school populations become more diverse and as the objection of non-Christians — or, in this case, the rejoicing of evangelists — is broadcast on the Internet.
In landmark decisions in 1962 and 1963, the Supreme Court barred official promotion of religion in schools. That principle has remained solid, if pilloried by conservatives who blame it for what they see as the nation’s moral and social decline. At the same time, the courts and Congress have also reinforced the rights of students to pray on their own and to form after-school religious clubs.
But battles over the place of religion in schools continue. This month, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit demanding that the Chesterfield County, S.C., school district end what the suit describes as the continuing promotion of religion in several of its schools, including the middle school that held the prayer rally. The A.C.L.U. brought the suit on behalf of a seventh grader who said he was subjected to unwanted proselytizing and has been harassed for his avowals of atheism.
Christian legal advocates counter that such plain violations are far less common than the opposite problem: overzealous officials trying to cleanse the schools of religion, punishing students for protected speech like personal prayer or handing out devotional messages to their friends.
Watchdog groups like the A.C.L.U., Americans United for Separation of Church and State and the Freedom From Religion Foundation say that in the last few years, they have learned more often about what they call blatant violations like the South Carolina rally. It is unclear, they say, whether the number of such events is growing, or whether they are now more likely to come to light. But still, these advocates say, even when clear violations occur, concerned families are often reluctant to bring legal challenges because they fear social hostility.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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563 comments Add your comment
John K
December 28th, 2011
3:04 pm
Why are all these kids coming to your home after school and confessing to you?
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:04 pm
Here is my mental picture of progressive….
Ponytail with receding haairline
Divorced or parents divorced
Picked on as child
Wears a jacket with patched elbows even in summer
Shops at Ikea
Rub them out to Steve Jobs pics
Am I right??!!
xxtian
December 28th, 2011
3:04 pm
@Progressive Humanist
well said
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:05 pm
John…I actually talk have friends with kids in school. You see I am a social person who likes to conversate outside of tweets and text.
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
3:05 pm
Progressive Humanist
December 28th, 2011
2:53 pm
They profess to be wise thus became fools!
Heather Scott
December 28th, 2011
3:05 pm
This should help clear up a few things. Those of us that are not Christian are not ignorant of the religion. We have grown up in it or around it and it did not fulfill us spiritually so we found something that did. We don’t try to convert others because of the very reason that we don’t want you to try and convert us. It does not make me uncomfortable to be around Christians, on the contrary I live in a family that supports many different religions. I also am paying for my brother to go to college to be a baptist preacher. With that being said, if I wanted my kids to learn religion in school, I would send them to a private school that was based on the denomination of my choice. That is every parents right. I don’t send my kids to school to learn about god/s, I was raised to believe that was why people went to church. It is idiocy to think that if kids don’t kearn about religion in school that they will not learn about religion. That makes you sound like you or your pastor is incapable of properly teaching them about your god. Our choice IS an educated one and all we ask is that you follow your own messiah’s teachings and treat others the way you want to be treated. As I often say to those who get all huffy about me being Pagan, I promise not to hold it against you that you are Christian if you promise not to hold it against me that I’m not.
BS Aplenty
December 28th, 2011
3:06 pm
John K,
Yes, I’ve been in several other countries, however, not one visit I ever made informed me better of the need for ethical behavior than a visit my son recently made to Greece. He was on leave from college and travelled with a companion to Athens, among other stops, where he described a particular incident with a local merchant. It seems he wanted to buy a gift for Mom & Dad but needed to use his credit card. However, the local merchant, fearing the paper trail & the TAX MAN, demanded payment in cash (euros). My son ultimately bought the gift elsewhere.
But you see one of the results of lax ethics within that country (and not just them) and the subsequent fiscal & societal calamity that follows (btw, the Greeks defaulted on their sovereign debt, if you weren’t aware). I don’t want a country like that.
that with the Greek fiscal problemsthan a well-written text I could have read in my living room.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:08 pm
Listen…I think people can bring a pagan antler hat, a jewish hat, a muslim veil or whatever to school. I just think its funny that this article is claiming that schools are more biased ot Christianity. I mean schools are so afraid of lawsuits today that its hilarious to think that. I mean this pagan group mentioned has probably already hired the pagan lawyer who posted earlier to sue for mental distress.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:10 pm
I went to public schools and yes Progressive…even a public funded college (though my MBA was from a private) and I never once felt religion being taught or indoctinated oin any form.
Myabe I was asleep when they covered the touchy subject of evolution, or maybe I just was not thin skinned and looking to sue. its just me though.
Patrick
December 28th, 2011
3:12 pm
Willie,
I agree with you on Jefferson and the Church of England. Where my problem comes in with this debate is the manner in which the teacher treated the student. I think that it was extremely poor judgement on her part and a lack of respect. I can see where you are coming from when you stated “His separation of church and state could never be interpreted as the progressives have espoused on the entire republic.” I just hope that you can see my point in that so many people look down on those who don’t subscribe to main stream religion and that by not attenting a certain church or going along with ascribed rolls that they are lesser people or anti-american or anti-religion. I believe in love, dignity, and mutual respect and if someone uses God or religion to promote these things, I’m all for it. My problem is when they use God or The Bible to justify their own hate and bigotry. There is so much of that today that it saddens me. If you scroll back though this, you and I have had a respectful debate and difference in opinion, but we have not resorted to hateful words and behavior like so many (on both sides) have done.
John K
December 28th, 2011
3:12 pm
BS, and this has what to do with your “Christian only” ethics?
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:16 pm
I think its funny how “progressive” look at Christians as closed minded people yet they are the ones on the attack. Its like people crying racist. Both are examples of people not comfortable in their own skins or they just are looking to sue…or make people as miserbale as they are.
BS Aplenty
December 28th, 2011
3:17 pm
John K,
Greece called, you need to go home now.
John K
December 28th, 2011
3:18 pm
Good one Ron, it’s been a few pages since we’ve had the Christian cry of victim-hood. Keep that idea going, it guarantees loyalty among the flock.
John K
December 28th, 2011
3:19 pm
Nah, I’ll stay here and use the rights you feel are just for the majority.
Jack
December 28th, 2011
3:21 pm
Religion belongs in the church.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:21 pm
I think that there are some great things society has done in terms of growing up since the “olden days”. The worst thing about today versus then was back then people did what they had to do to survive and prosper. People were more likely to work to pay their bills because if they did not they did without. Today people cry poor and yet they have a smart phone and HBO. There is a certain deterioration of honor that has left our society. I guess we are just to forward thinking and progressive for such olden values.
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
3:22 pm
Heather Scott
December 28th, 2011
3:05 pm
Heather are you a pagan everywhere you go! Well from now on you can not be pagan in a restaurant because that restaurant borrowed money from the feds to get established–and so on. I am a believer everywhere I go and if my friends are around and we want to pray together you are there to shame us or prevent us from public display of our beliefs. I own just as much of the public property as the pagans do.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:23 pm
I am no victim John. Sorry. I beleive that most victims are just weak people. Most mind you not all. Kind like those poor victims from the housing crash. Or the victims who ate the big bad mcdonalds. Or the victims who had to say GOD in the pledge.
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
3:26 pm
Jack
December 28th, 2011
3:21 pm
You and the lawyer should read the declaration of independence!
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”
So man gave you and the lawyer rights? It says here the Creator gave them to you.
Mahopinion
December 28th, 2011
3:26 pm
“My own daughter was forced to sit and listen to her science teacher preach about how evolution is evil.”
“Your daughters teacher should be fired immediately. That’s terrible.”
Now that is a perfect drive-by with an emotional response by someone who would believe what is said without knowing if it is true or not.
——————–
Which part, Williebkind? My daughter was forced to sit in class while her teacher extolled the virtues of those who believed in creationism and told them that anyone who followed the theory of evolution was doomed to hell. The public school system is not the forum for preaching your misinformed religious beliefs. If you want that sort of thing, either homeschool or go to a parochial school.
I did complain, along with several other parents. Needless to say, because this is Georgia, the teacher is still there. She just now prefaces her evolution lectures with a statenent about how it’s only a theory and science has not proven that the earth is more than 5000 years old like the bible says. Good grief. And we wonder why our educational system is in the toilet.
John K
December 28th, 2011
3:26 pm
Ron, that’s funny to hear you say you’re not a victim with all the whining you’ve been doing here. Did a liberal girl in HS turn you down for prom?
Mahopinion
December 28th, 2011
3:27 pm
Umm, Willie…it says THEIR creator. Not YOUR creator.
John K
December 28th, 2011
3:27 pm
Willie, explain how you think the Declaration of Independence trumps The Constitution.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:28 pm
Whining? Ummmm….no. I am merely stoppong by to voice my thoughts. Whining would be saying that mean ole Tommy was praying next to me at school.
I did not like hairy legs so I stuck with no libtards in school. Sorry. LOL!
God was never in schools in the South
December 28th, 2011
3:29 pm
@Ron. You have an outdated picture of a Progressive. For every person camping out with Occupy, there are another 100 or so Progressives going to work in suits every day. When you were talking about Christians you forgot to talk about some of the deacons and elders in some the Protestant churches wearing their white robes going lynching andyrdering on Saturday, then showing up in the church pews on Sunday. Speaking as a church going, practicing Christian, the South has never been a Christian place judging by the actions of the churches and their mbers over the last several hundred years.
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
3:29 pm
I hope the conservatives win the majority in the senate, get the executive office, appoint new conservative SC justices. Of course I believe education should be voluntary. It was doing really good until the government got involved.
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
3:30 pm
John K
December 28th, 2011
3:27 pm
It does not trump the constitution! Only the activist judges trump the constitution.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:31 pm
Mahopinion…the point Willie is saying is that our foiunding fathers were Christians and so where the early Americans and thus they set up a culture based on Jewish-Christian type teachings. No one is saying be a Christian but when you whine about the Christian culture, its like me going to live in Eygpt and complaing about the prayer horns being to loud.
John K
December 28th, 2011
3:32 pm
Willie, than why are you bringing up the Declaration of Independence? Just because it says “Creator” does not establish religion in this nation. The only document that could do that is The Constitution, and it does not.
Patrick
December 28th, 2011
3:32 pm
Ron,
If you’ll look back through this blog, you’ll see a lot of your words are attacks. You described how you thought progressives looked, you insinuated that they masturbated to a picture of Steve Jobs, you seem extremely pre-occupied with sex and the appearance which YOU think women should have. You’ve constantly used pejoratives when talking about someone that doesn’t share your thoughts or views. So let me clear up some misconceptions that you have. I am a progressive, but I’m also a Christian. I was not picked on in high school or college, I was actually quite popular. I don’t shop at Ikea, the last furniture I purchased came from Haverty’s. My parents have been happily married for 48 years, and I don’t wear jackets with patches on the elbows, I’m actually wearing a pair of Levi’s, a t-shirt and cowboy boots.. Sorry, to debunk your theory but stereotypes are never a good thing!
John K
December 28th, 2011
3:33 pm
Yeah Ron, you’ve been whining. Apparently you’re entire life you’ve been victimized by progressives. I guess if you find this forum cathartic, then go ahead and let out your frustrations here.
Alan Keyes
December 28th, 2011
3:33 pm
http://i.imgur.com/tu8WN.jpg
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
3:33 pm
“When you were talking about Christians you forgot to talk about some of the deacons and elders in some the Protestant churches wearing their white robes going lynching andyrdering on Saturday, then showing up in the church pews on Sunday”
What time period are you living in? We have moved onto homosexuals now and how sex has nothing to do with who they love. And of course it is not a choice it is a brain tumor that makes them that way.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:33 pm
Take you pills Patrick and take a deep breath.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:35 pm
Okay john I am whining. You have successfully indoctrinated it into me. LOL!
John K
December 28th, 2011
3:36 pm
Feels good to admit, doesn’t it?
Patrick
December 28th, 2011
3:37 pm
Ron,
The correct spelling is “your.”
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
3:37 pm
John K
December 28th, 2011
3:32 pm
You are right and that is why we call you John K. But the progressives use the justice system to circumvent the constitution to make their agendas law. They first must rid the country of religion–especially christains that they fear the most.
God was never in schools in the South
December 28th, 2011
3:38 pm
Talking about the historical hoax of the South being Christian.
Mahopinion
December 28th, 2011
3:38 pm
Wrong, Ron. The founding fathers were Christian, but they realized that establishing a government on the basis of any religion was wrong. While we are at it, the early Americans weren’t Christian at all. Native Americans had their own forms of worship until the good Christian folk decided to “civilize” them all.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:40 pm
Its does john. I feel “enlightened”. Almost like I know more then anyone else and should force people to think like me. To force climate change onto people, to ban guns, to make talk radio be 50/50 on convserativeand liberal topics, to force rich people to turn over more of their money that they obviously did not earn . I feel smart john.
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
3:40 pm
An oxymoron!
“I am a progressive, but I’m also a Christian.”
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
3:42 pm
Mahopinion
December 28th, 2011
3:38 pm
It’s a b*tch to be conquered! We southners know it well.
God was never in schools in the South
December 28th, 2011
3:42 pm
And don’t forget to mention how the good Christians stole their land. And what about those smallpox infected blankets. Good little Christians weren’t they?
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:43 pm
Mah…would you not agree that when all those Europeans came over it was almost inevitable to have a Christian culture? No one is saying that Christianity should be astate religion but I think its funny when people cry about certain aspects of American culture for being to “churchy” when its been intertwined for many generations as most people in America for generations beleived in Christianity. Again, its like me moving to Mecca and complaining about my kid having his studies interrupted by the teacher turning to pray.
Patrick
December 28th, 2011
3:43 pm
It’s not an oxymoron. There are many progressive Christians. As a matter of fact my church is made up of them!
John K
December 28th, 2011
3:44 pm
No Willie, it’s obvious you don’t understand how our government is set up. The judicial branch is to determine the Constitutionality of laws that are passed. If a state law does not hold up to The Constitution, it can be overturned. I know it sucks, since that prevents you from forcing your beliefs on others, but there you go.
God was never in schools in the South
December 28th, 2011
3:45 pm
True Oxymoron: I am a Christian and a Tea Party member/activist. Williebkind, when is the last time you read the teachings of Jesus the Christ in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John?
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
3:45 pm
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:40 pm
Did you take the red or blue pill–I must know!