Being pagan in Georgia: Do schools promote some religions while denigrating others?
UPDATE: Folks, I closed comments on this at 10 p.m. Friday. Have a great holiday weekend. Maureen
A common plaint on this blog is that religion has been banished from our public schools. The usual comment is that we have kicked God out of the schools.
But some argue that not all religions are met with hostility in the classroom, only those far outside the mainstream.
That complaint was made this month via an Internet campaign on behalf of a pagan family in Carroll County. Stephanie Turner said her 11-year-old son was singled out and punished after he took off the neopagan holiday of Samhain. Once the boy returned to class, his teacher allegedly questioned him and said, “Paganism is not a religion.” Then, the teacher assigned a class essay on “How Christmas started,” according to the complaint.
(You can read more details on the “Turner Family Support” Facebook page.)
I exchanged e-mails with Turner seeking information about her son’s experience, but then received a call from Selena Fox, founder and executive director of the Lady Liberty League, an organization that advocates for religious freedom for Wiccans, Neopagans and other nature religion practitioners.
A Wisconsin resident, Fox explained to me in our telephone conversation that she was calling on Turner’s behalf to let me know that they were attempting to meet with the school district. In the meantime, websites and pagan organizations that took up the Turner family cause urged people to send e-mails of protest to the Carroll school chief, principal and teacher. And apparently they did.
When I contacted Carroll County two weeks ago, spokeswoman Elena Schulenburg told me: We are currently working with the parent to review this matter. The e-mail was circulated over the weekend ahead of our opportunity to meet with the parent to discuss any concerns. As always, our focus is on the safety and welfare of all students.
Accompanied by four advocates including an attorney, Turner met with Carroll school officials on Dec. 12. She and her advocates issued a statement later on the outcome of that meeting: First, a sincere apology for recent events and misunderstandings has been given by school administration and accepted by the family. Second, the Bowdon Elementary School guidance counselor will educate staff and students about honoring and accepting the differences that make us individuals. Third, procedures have been put in place to ensure classroom activities don’t alienate students.
In a Dec. 13 radio interview on Pagan Warrior Radio hosted by Selena Fox, Turner thanked the national pagan community for its support, saying, “It has helped my son so much knowing that he is not alone.”
The New York Times has a good piece about the encroachment of religion in public schools. Several of the examples of proselytizing occurred in Southern schools.
The New York Times story notes:
At a school assembly here in South Carolina on Sept. 1, a preacher described how Christ saved him from drugs, telling his rapt audience that “a relationship with Jesus is what you need more than anything else.” A rapper shouted the Lord’s praise to a light show and most of the audience stepped forward to pledge themselves to Christ while a few remained, uncomfortable, in their seats.
Such overt evangelizing would not be unusual at a prayer rally, but this was a daytime celebration in a public school gymnasium, arranged by the principal for sixth, seventh and eighth graders. When the rapper posted a video on YouTube, announcing that “324 kids at this school have made a decision for Jesus Christ,” he drew unwelcome public and legal scrutiny to the event. It was the kind of religious advocacy that is increasingly coming to light, legal experts say, as school populations become more diverse and as the objection of non-Christians — or, in this case, the rejoicing of evangelists — is broadcast on the Internet.
In landmark decisions in 1962 and 1963, the Supreme Court barred official promotion of religion in schools. That principle has remained solid, if pilloried by conservatives who blame it for what they see as the nation’s moral and social decline. At the same time, the courts and Congress have also reinforced the rights of students to pray on their own and to form after-school religious clubs.
But battles over the place of religion in schools continue. This month, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit demanding that the Chesterfield County, S.C., school district end what the suit describes as the continuing promotion of religion in several of its schools, including the middle school that held the prayer rally. The A.C.L.U. brought the suit on behalf of a seventh grader who said he was subjected to unwanted proselytizing and has been harassed for his avowals of atheism.
Christian legal advocates counter that such plain violations are far less common than the opposite problem: overzealous officials trying to cleanse the schools of religion, punishing students for protected speech like personal prayer or handing out devotional messages to their friends.
Watchdog groups like the A.C.L.U., Americans United for Separation of Church and State and the Freedom From Religion Foundation say that in the last few years, they have learned more often about what they call blatant violations like the South Carolina rally. It is unclear, they say, whether the number of such events is growing, or whether they are now more likely to come to light. But still, these advocates say, even when clear violations occur, concerned families are often reluctant to bring legal challenges because they fear social hostility.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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563 comments Add your comment
kevin
December 28th, 2011
1:54 pm
Mahopinion,
“My own daughter was forced to sit and listen to her science teacher preach about how evolution is evil.”
Your daughters teacher should be fired immediately. That’s terrible.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
1:55 pm
I think Pagans should be outlawed in school cause their headdresses adorned with antlers can be used as weapons.
I think the basic principles set forth in Christian teachings if followed responsibly would make the world a better place. I mean look at Europe. Religion is dead there. Do we really want to be like Europe? Unbathed, armpit hair on woman? Rude and callous? Suckled to a govt teet? I personally would rather be a religous man, who beleives thta my actions should define my results and also I like my women clean shaven in certain places.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
1:58 pm
I think teachers should teach math and science and how to read, but I think its lame how people cry over prayer in school or whether we have God used in the pledge. Religious freedom and having a culture based on Christian-Jewish beleifs are two differnt things.
If someone wants to beleive in 72 virgins..by all means but dont go blwoing up my cities. If someone wants to not beleive in a God and go around with unshaved armpits, then do it, but dont cry about the culture this GREAT (or once great) country was founded on.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
2:00 pm
If people want to whine about religion being an intrusive subject on our future go over to the middle east where its REALLY intusive. They will put a veil over your head and cover your unshaven armpits up real quick.
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
2:01 pm
Thomas Jefferson
December 28th, 2011
7:28 am
Yep, I see you found one!
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
2:01 pm
To the pagan lawyer…I thought all lawyers were pagans. Isn’t it kind of implied in being a lwyer that you worship an idol?
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
2:02 pm
“I don’t want to shake your faith or your FAITH. I just don’t think people should be shaking their faith in other people’s faces using tax dollars to deny them their faith in public or private places!”
Tom Foolery
December 28th, 2011
2:02 pm
Ron Burgundy shaves his pits, good to know.
Patrick
December 28th, 2011
2:02 pm
The teacher should have never made the comment to the student. She may not understand or agree with his religion, but it’s not her place to denounce it. The belief system of Pagans may seem odd and far fetched to her, but as a Christian I would like to ask her how odd some od our religions beliefs must seem to them. We believe in a virgin birth that resulted in the son of God, a senior citizen gathered two of every animal on the Earth and rode out a flood on a boat with those animals, that a man was crucified and 3 days later rose from the dead. We believe in these “far fetched” occurences because of our faith and what we were raised to believe. A little compassion (which it what Christ taught) would go along way here. How would you feel if someone insulted your beliefs?
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
2:05 pm
No TOm Foolery….I am very proud of my mane of armpit hairs. I am speaking of course to the “enlightened” woman of Europe who are much to intelligent to fall for beleiving in a God and shaving their armpits or trimming there naughty parts.
Patrick
December 28th, 2011
2:07 pm
Just remember Adolf Hitler led Nazi Germany in the name of religion!
Atlanta Mom
December 28th, 2011
2:08 pm
Oh well, it would have been nice to discuss the topic at hand, which seemed to me to be schools and religions.
Instead it’s a blog about myths.
Too bad.
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
2:09 pm
“Jefferson was raised in the Church of England at a time when it was the established church in Virginia and only denomination funded by Virginia tax money. Before the Revolution, parishes were units of local government, and Jefferson served as a vestryman — a lay administrative position in his local parish. Office-holding qualifications at all levels—including the House of Burgesses, to which Jefferson was elected in 1769—required affiliation with the current state religion and an undertaking that one would neither express dissent nor do anything that did not conform to church doctrine. Jefferson counted clergy among his friends, and he supported some churches financially.”
He seemed to believe in parts of it but not all of it. Now how do you figure that?
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
2:09 pm
I just think this generation of people are too smart to fall for beleiving in God. Just like they are too smart to honor their debts they accrue, and too smart to be polite and courteous. they are too smart to stay married and beleive that love is more then just a feeling felt in the backseat of a car. They are too smart to beleive that discipline and structure helps mold children. They are too smart ti beleive that anyone other then govt can make life decisions.
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
2:11 pm
“My own daughter was forced to sit and listen to her science teacher preach about how evolution is evil.”
“Your daughters teacher should be fired immediately. That’s terrible.”
Now that is a perfect drive-by with an emotional response by someone who would believe what is said without knowing if it is true or not.
God was never in schools in the South
December 28th, 2011
2:12 pm
@Atlanta Mom. You can’t talk about religion without talking about myths. They go hand in hand!
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
2:13 pm
Patrick
December 28th, 2011
2:07 pm
That is a lie! Religion was a small part of Hilter’s propaganda scheme.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
2:13 pm
No WillieBKind….we need to fire this teacher immediately cause she said an opinion. LETS BE INTOLERANT AND FIRE ANYONE FOR SEEMING INTOLERANT!!!! LETS GROW THIN SKINS….DOWN WITH IMUS, DOWN WITH KOZMO KRAMER….DOWN WITH SHARPTON….oh wait…Sharpton is black so its okay.
DLink
December 28th, 2011
2:21 pm
OH wait, got caught up in the whole religious catfight over a church and state argument.
Here’s the thing people. In GA if a kid misses 10 days of unexcused absences in high school, the state revokes the child’s drivers license, aka the state punishing a religion for the religious absence of a person’s child from school. Now… should the absence of a child in school due to their religious beliefs be considered excused, or unexcused – by the state. It’s state law, and if everyone quit proselytizing for a moment, you’d see that. Well??
Is it an excused, or unexcused absence? Choose. And who’s doing the choosing, while we’re at it?
I knew I’d find the real question if I looked at the situation long enough.
Outside the Perimeter
December 28th, 2011
2:22 pm
Well, what about the Church of Scientology? Is this a “mainstream” church? Rather, I should say, is this even a CHURCH? If so, most churches are made up of persons who share some type of religious thought, or that they may wish to pray to or believe in, or even want to worship a higher being.
With the COS, that “higher” entity would be none other than ol’ L. Ron Himself. I can’t believe even those dumb enough to adhere to Scientology would entertain worshiping L. Ron. but, with today’s world, anything is possible I guess.
Tom Foolery
December 28th, 2011
2:22 pm
@Ron
Sweden, Denmark, and Norway are the least religious countries in Europe. I guess Swedish girls should be known for being hairy and unkept more than others, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Europe#Religiosity
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
2:27 pm
I omit Nordic people from any rational conversation. Though very hot, nordic people are also insane due to long period of night and cold. I mean you would have to be insane to furnish your home with the junk from Ikea. I like my house to feel warm and comfy…only an insane person would want there house to seem boxy and sterile.
Progressive Humanist
December 28th, 2011
2:27 pm
If a science teacher says that natural selection (evolution) is false or evil, then they should not be in a classroom. It’s not a matter of opinion; it’s that making a statement like that is clear evidence that the teacher does not understand his or her subject area. If you don’t understand science then you shouldn’t be in a position to teach science. Have whatever religious beliefs you want outside the context of the science classroom, but creationism is not science, nor is intelligent design. As a professor who trains and certifies teachers, if you show me you do not understand your content area, then I am obligated not to allow you to become a teacher until you have shown you have mastered the subject matter.
Dana D. Eilers
December 28th, 2011
2:28 pm
The governing document of our nation is the Constitution. It mentions *God* in exactly ONE place: at the end to establish the date. That is all. There is my argument for WHY our government is NOT predicated on religion. Big newsflash, folks. We do not live in a theocracy. If that is what you want, you will have to go live somewhere else.
Incredulous
December 28th, 2011
2:30 pm
@williebkind. Not a lie at all. Hitler’s faith was likely more devout than your own. He held that a christian responsibility was the persecution of Jews. Toland wrote “the” book on Hitler. If you have the time available, you should read it.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
2:30 pm
Progressive….I highly doubt that this little girl heard a teacher say “If you beleive in evolution you are evil”. I think this little girl may have a history of framing people. I am sure her uncle Jimmy is in prison right now cause the little girl cried rape cause she was upset her Uncle Jimmy did not get her a toy for CHristmas.
Progressive humanist…classy handle. Sounds like a handle someone would use to make themselves seem “above the fray” only it really only means you have a small duggan and are insecure.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
2:33 pm
Dana…again…no right minded Christian beleive the US should be a CHristian State. We only beleive that its a little lame for people to whine about the US culture that WAS founded on Christianity.
If a pagan goes to Mecca, they will make you put a veil over your headdress and antlers. But you want to seem wordly so you will gladly doit. then you come back home and whine because Christmas has to much jesus in it.
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
2:33 pm
Thomas Jefferson:
“RICHMOND, Va. — When Thomas Jefferson died, scores of slaves were sold from his Monticello plantation to settle his debts. Peter Fossett, 11, was among them, recalling that he was “born and reared as free, not knowing that I was a slave, then suddenly, at the death of Jefferson, put on an auction block and sold to strangers.”
Today’s AJC
Now you want to quote Jefferson some more?
drew (former teacher)
December 28th, 2011
2:35 pm
I suspect very few public “schools” promote a religion. But I’m sure there are some extremely devout teachers who can’t NOT promote their religion. Some probably see it as a duty.
And then there’s the smug, self-satisfied, believers (like East Repeat) that turn more people FROM religion than TOWARDS it. Just because “your” myth is more popular doesn’t make it any more believable. Can’t we all just get along?
Patrick
December 28th, 2011
2:36 pm
Willie
You contradict yourself. First you tell me it’s a lie, then you say it’s was a small part. If it’s a lie that would mean religion had nothing to do with it. Even if it were only a small part, it still played a role. We have enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love. 9/11 was carried out in the name of religion, as was the holocaust, as were the Jim Crow Laws in the US during the 60’s.. If you like religion so much, fine I think you should say a prayer when ever you feel like it. My point is that no one has a right to tell me or anyone else when to do, say, or think anything. It’s called freedom and that’s what being an American is all about!
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
2:37 pm
I would imagine that for every one conservative teacher that occasionaly lets their faith show during the scholl day there are five atheist libtard teachers telling kids that if they dont recylce a polar bear is going to die.
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
2:38 pm
Dana D. Eilers
December 28th, 2011
2:28 pm
You are wrong the governing of the US is the supreme court and activist judges! Roe vs Wade, did congress pass that law?
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
2:41 pm
Patrick
December 28th, 2011
2:36 pm
To tell someone to do something is not he same as making them do it. The Christains morality advises you but progressive ideology demands you do it.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
2:43 pm
Agree Willie…its amzing how Christians are deomonzied yet you dont see people being focred to be Christians on a broad scale…yet America is forced to be indoctrinated in the church of Al gore.
How is Al Gore these days? Has Larry David forgave him for stooping his wife?
Incredulous
December 28th, 2011
2:43 pm
@Ron Burgundy/PollyO…So much so that Coca Cola is attempting to redeem itself by sponsoring conservation aimed at that very topic. If corporations want it in the classroom, chances are it will be there. Fortunately, everyone has a say in this. Which is what deeply angers the rightwing wackos. Their power and influence is being usurped.
Fry
December 28th, 2011
2:43 pm
@Ron http://i.imgur.com/4hN14.png
BS Aplenty
December 28th, 2011
2:47 pm
Ms. Turner and her family are well within their right to seek the protection of the First Amendment dictum that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; (emphasis mine). Religious proselytizing by a public school should be off-limits for the protection of ALL of us. I am a Christian and rarely feel the effects of such situations on myself or my family, nevertheless, I can understand the Turner family position.
HOWEVER, advocates for other religions, “alternative religions”, or no religions, like Ms. Turner also overlook a far more important service that JUDEO-CHRISTIAN ethics play in preserving the quality of life in her son’s public school and in this country. And I would go further to state that what is strongly needed in MANY public schools is just that “personal discipline” – honesty, concern for others, and brotherhood – that is so much a part of the Christian ethic.
While the Constitution deems all “religions” equally prohibited from the public sphere, it is also true that not all religions, and importantly their religious ethics, are equal. The more important question is: which genuine religious ethics do I most admire and want represented in my society, community, city, country? We may disagree on some specifics, but I think if you look around the world the answer to that question is obvious.
Patrick
December 28th, 2011
2:50 pm
Ron
There is nothing wrong with a teacher letting her faith show. There is a problem with her treating the child with indifference. As a Christian I have to make sure that people understand that I don’t preach hate and bigotry and respect everyone’s view and opinion. The way one goes about it will determine if the response is negative or positive even if there is a difference in opinion. Slowly but surely Christianity is coming to be recognized as a hateful group. People have a back lash toward Christianity because they are tired of hateful mean spirited words like “libtard” for example. There are ways to convey your message and still treat those with different opinions with respect. Given that you are a Christian I assume that you know that is what Jesus would do.
John K
December 28th, 2011
2:52 pm
““personal discipline” – honesty, concern for others, and brotherhood”
So these are purely Christian ethics? No other belief in the world hold these? Have you even left your county in your lifetime?
Progressive Humanist
December 28th, 2011
2:53 pm
I think Ron may need to go back to get his GED. He uses words like libtard but can’t spell “believe” (over and over) or even “school” for that matter. No wonder he believes in a 2,000 year old fairy tale written by whacked out barbarians about a magical primate who willed the universe into existence before having a snake talk to beings he created from dirt and a rib bone. And then the primate came down later as the son of himself only to become a zombie. That’s a pretty impressive monkey you worship. If Ron had a little education he’d know that his myth was actually cobbled together from other ancient religious myths that existed prior to Christianity. I just love how the least educated Americans, like Ron, love to spew their asinine opinions, particularly about education. No, we’re not going back to your 14th century worldview. Soon your foolish beliefs about fictitious events will become extinct just like the dinosaurs which you probably don’t think existed.
williebkind
December 28th, 2011
2:53 pm
Patrick.
Jefferson did not like the church of England but held offices in it. He learned from experience that the church should not dictate to the state and the state should not dictate to the church. His writings reflected he believed in a deity or GOD but not institutions. His separation of church and state could never be interpreted as the progressives have espoused on the entire republic.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
2:53 pm
If people want to make a difference in humanity then why not focus on the root cause. I mean we waste so much time whining about a school having God in the pledge or mcDonalds putting a toy in a happy meal. If you think McDonalds is bad then dont let your kids go there. If you think that the pledge is bad then dont say God. Worry about yourself and quite trying to make the world this socialist place where the govt thinks for you.
Honor and righteousness, Christian values, are evaporating because its not needed. If you cant pay for something, just file bankrupcy. If your child is getting fat just sue McDonalds. If your child is a dumb arse, buy some ritalin from Obamacare. See how easy life is without Christian values? Its just a simpler time today.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
2:53 pm
I think Progressive is too hung up on spelling cause he has a small duggan.
Progressive Humanist
December 28th, 2011
2:56 pm
And Ron clearly doesn’t know the meaning of indoctrination, yet uses it to attack others. That’s why this country has gone downhill- the sheer ignorance of the populace.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
2:57 pm
I do agree with Progressive on the fact that religion is becoming extint. We will soon be like Europe. Hoping that the govt can wipe our fannies and crying and throwing things when they do not.
God was never in schools in the South
December 28th, 2011
2:57 pm
@Ron. Now you are truly showing how intolerant and stupid your opinions are. Atheist teachers are a minuscule percentage of overall teachers. Just keep twisting the facts to suit your own intolerant opinions.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
2:58 pm
Is it not indoctrination to say that your coke canshould be recycled or a polar bear is going to be raped by a seal cause of the heat?
Progressive Humanist
December 28th, 2011
2:59 pm
So, Ron, do you suggest giving Ritalin to children because that’s the strategy your parents used with you when they realized you weren’t “up to par” intellectually?
Progressive Humanist
December 28th, 2011
3:01 pm
Once again, Ron shows he has no idea what indoctrination means. Keep talking and I’ll keep recommending that you go back to get your high school diploma so you can actually go to college one day.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
3:02 pm
I have never done a religious survey on teachers…I merely state that a lot of kids come home complaining more about teachers telling them that if Obama had not spent a trillion on the stimulus we would be throwing human waste out onto the streets like the dark ages. Rarely do I hear a kid coming home saying that the teacher was saying that if you dont repent there is a lake of fire waiting on ya.