Being pagan in Georgia: Do schools promote some religions while denigrating others?
UPDATE: Folks, I closed comments on this at 10 p.m. Friday. Have a great holiday weekend. Maureen
A common plaint on this blog is that religion has been banished from our public schools. The usual comment is that we have kicked God out of the schools.
But some argue that not all religions are met with hostility in the classroom, only those far outside the mainstream.
That complaint was made this month via an Internet campaign on behalf of a pagan family in Carroll County. Stephanie Turner said her 11-year-old son was singled out and punished after he took off the neopagan holiday of Samhain. Once the boy returned to class, his teacher allegedly questioned him and said, “Paganism is not a religion.” Then, the teacher assigned a class essay on “How Christmas started,” according to the complaint.
(You can read more details on the “Turner Family Support” Facebook page.)
I exchanged e-mails with Turner seeking information about her son’s experience, but then received a call from Selena Fox, founder and executive director of the Lady Liberty League, an organization that advocates for religious freedom for Wiccans, Neopagans and other nature religion practitioners.
A Wisconsin resident, Fox explained to me in our telephone conversation that she was calling on Turner’s behalf to let me know that they were attempting to meet with the school district. In the meantime, websites and pagan organizations that took up the Turner family cause urged people to send e-mails of protest to the Carroll school chief, principal and teacher. And apparently they did.
When I contacted Carroll County two weeks ago, spokeswoman Elena Schulenburg told me: We are currently working with the parent to review this matter. The e-mail was circulated over the weekend ahead of our opportunity to meet with the parent to discuss any concerns. As always, our focus is on the safety and welfare of all students.
Accompanied by four advocates including an attorney, Turner met with Carroll school officials on Dec. 12. She and her advocates issued a statement later on the outcome of that meeting: First, a sincere apology for recent events and misunderstandings has been given by school administration and accepted by the family. Second, the Bowdon Elementary School guidance counselor will educate staff and students about honoring and accepting the differences that make us individuals. Third, procedures have been put in place to ensure classroom activities don’t alienate students.
In a Dec. 13 radio interview on Pagan Warrior Radio hosted by Selena Fox, Turner thanked the national pagan community for its support, saying, “It has helped my son so much knowing that he is not alone.”
The New York Times has a good piece about the encroachment of religion in public schools. Several of the examples of proselytizing occurred in Southern schools.
The New York Times story notes:
At a school assembly here in South Carolina on Sept. 1, a preacher described how Christ saved him from drugs, telling his rapt audience that “a relationship with Jesus is what you need more than anything else.” A rapper shouted the Lord’s praise to a light show and most of the audience stepped forward to pledge themselves to Christ while a few remained, uncomfortable, in their seats.
Such overt evangelizing would not be unusual at a prayer rally, but this was a daytime celebration in a public school gymnasium, arranged by the principal for sixth, seventh and eighth graders. When the rapper posted a video on YouTube, announcing that “324 kids at this school have made a decision for Jesus Christ,” he drew unwelcome public and legal scrutiny to the event. It was the kind of religious advocacy that is increasingly coming to light, legal experts say, as school populations become more diverse and as the objection of non-Christians — or, in this case, the rejoicing of evangelists — is broadcast on the Internet.
In landmark decisions in 1962 and 1963, the Supreme Court barred official promotion of religion in schools. That principle has remained solid, if pilloried by conservatives who blame it for what they see as the nation’s moral and social decline. At the same time, the courts and Congress have also reinforced the rights of students to pray on their own and to form after-school religious clubs.
But battles over the place of religion in schools continue. This month, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit demanding that the Chesterfield County, S.C., school district end what the suit describes as the continuing promotion of religion in several of its schools, including the middle school that held the prayer rally. The A.C.L.U. brought the suit on behalf of a seventh grader who said he was subjected to unwanted proselytizing and has been harassed for his avowals of atheism.
Christian legal advocates counter that such plain violations are far less common than the opposite problem: overzealous officials trying to cleanse the schools of religion, punishing students for protected speech like personal prayer or handing out devotional messages to their friends.
Watchdog groups like the A.C.L.U., Americans United for Separation of Church and State and the Freedom From Religion Foundation say that in the last few years, they have learned more often about what they call blatant violations like the South Carolina rally. It is unclear, they say, whether the number of such events is growing, or whether they are now more likely to come to light. But still, these advocates say, even when clear violations occur, concerned families are often reluctant to bring legal challenges because they fear social hostility.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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563 comments Add your comment
Fry
December 28th, 2011
11:14 am
Not sure if trolling, or just stupid.
John K
December 28th, 2011
11:16 am
@D, Ah yes, yet another who thinks our rights only extend to the majority.
xxtian
December 28th, 2011
11:19 am
Bill O’Reilly
now thats funny!!
LP
December 28th, 2011
11:23 am
SAMHAIN IS not a Pagan holiday per say, it is a Wiccan/Witch holiday,
Mike Hipp
December 28th, 2011
11:23 am
Why won’t anyone use their real name in their tirades? If you’re not willing to stand behind your comments, in the form of using your real name, then your comment should be 100% discounted.
If you don’t have the conviction to use your real name when you post, why should I pay attention to anything that you say?
xxtian
December 28th, 2011
11:25 am
Hmmmmmmm
you’re kidding right? disprove the bible? science has pretty much done that.
matt
December 28th, 2011
11:26 am
God is not real, that is why god should not be taught in school. The reason it seems like there is more violence in school has nothing to do with god, or lack thereof, it has to do with socio-economic inequality, school over crowding, teacher & parent apathy, proliferation of guns. All of which your favorite political party is responsible for.
Anon
December 28th, 2011
11:30 am
@Mike Hipp – Your bank account is now being cleaned out with the funds on their way to Nigeria. Welcome to the Internet.
Zeus is my Homeboy
December 28th, 2011
11:31 am
Christianity has its positives, but it’s every bit as mythical as all of the other religions. Paganism is no more ridiculous than Christianity, Islam, or worshiping the Giant Spaghetti Monster, so they should they should have the same rights as any one else. BTW, the Old Testament was influenced by common myths that were floating around the region at that time. Likewise, the story of Jesus was heavily influenced by the religion-Zoroastrianism- of the Persian Empire and various other myths floating around the Hellenistic World. With that said, I don’t think less of people for practicing their religion in their private lives.
BTW, I am perfectly ethical and honest person and I have no religious convictions. Moreover, most of the Judeo-Christian values that people are always blabbing about are just common sense that most cultures figured out on their own. Furthermore, our Constitution was largely based on the secular ideas of the Enlightenment and makes no mention of Christianity.
Mike Hipp
December 28th, 2011
11:31 am
@Anon – # 1 ridiculous, # 2 If you can’t stand the heat don’t go in the kitchen
xxtian
December 28th, 2011
11:34 am
Zeus is my Homeboy
well said
Bob
December 28th, 2011
11:37 am
When some of you Christians want to badger, coerce, or force people to “accept Jesus” or pretend that anyone in some mandatory school meeting “accepted Jesus” it makes you look like an ugly bigot and discredits your religion more than you can possibly know. When you do that you are actively driving people away from your “one and true Lord”. What do you think about that?
Wow
December 28th, 2011
11:40 am
If God doesn’t exist, then why is everybody getting worked up?
Wow
December 28th, 2011
11:41 am
I’ll give you a moment to think about that!
John K
December 28th, 2011
11:43 am
@Wow, don’t really need a moment for such an inane comment.
catlady
December 28th, 2011
11:44 am
Anyone else want to talk about the commonly used phrase, “I could care less.”? I mean, that means it is possible to care less than I do, but most use it to mean “I don’t care at all.” When did that get set on its head?
SouthGADawg
December 28th, 2011
11:44 am
OMG! A teacher made an observation about something! Let’s fire her for telling a kid that paganism is not a religon. Let me get this straight, that same teacher can tell kids that creationism – a Christian belief – is not real, but she can’t tell a kid that “paganism” is not a religon? Nothing incongruent with that view is there? Get a grip.
Nothing to see here people, move along. This is simply a case of a parent who 1) decided to make the ridiculous decision to subject their kid to a wierd religon and 2) feels the need to justify their “religon” through attention-seeking propoganda.
What did she expect when it was revealed that her kid was a “pagan?” Did she think everyone would act like it was the most normal thing in the world? I find it hilarious that its ok for a teacher to denouce the Christian belief of creationsim, but at the same time, she/he can’t state that a non-mainstream cult isn’t a religon.
Ridiculous. But hey, this story got plenty of traffic, so there you go AJC. Way to stir the pot.
Infinite
December 28th, 2011
11:44 am
The cannon of the Bible that we know today is a product of the Council of Nicea (and 6 subsequent councils), which was a collection of Christian Bishops convened for the purpose of definitively choosing ONE cannon to be recognized by all. If a representative of your cannon was not invited to the council, then your cannon would receive no voice, and thus no consideration for being included in the final cannon. This is a major gripe of the Eastern Orthodox Church. This council decided the relationship of Jesus to God, the calculation of Easter, etc. Basically, if your cannon had enough political clout, then your cannon was included. The Bible as we know it is a politically decided aggregation of different cannons.
In reference to the religion vs science debate, I see the two as complementary. The genesis story of Christianity, and many other religions, aligns quite well with the Big Bang Theory. Creation stories basically say that in the beginning, there was nothing, only a void. God created the heavens and the earth. God said, “let there be light.” The Big Bang theory affirms this.
Additionally, the story of the immaculate conception of God, who lives, dies, and is resurrected is not specific to Christianity. This story has been recounted numerous times before Christianity.
Let’s also dispense with referring to Christianity as the first and only monotheistic religion, while demonizing all others as polytheistic. Christianity is about as monotheistic as the Egyptian deity system. Egyptians have one supreme omnipotent deity and several lesser ones who carry out his will. Christianity has one supreme deity and several angels who carry out his will. Angels certainly aren’t human, and would be considered by any account to be supernatural. Lesser deities maybe?
BigCheezie
December 28th, 2011
11:45 am
@Wow
Cause my imaginary friend can beat your imaginary friend! But, most people choose not to see the imaginary part.
Earl of Ft. Liquordale
December 28th, 2011
11:46 am
@ No Soup: The Mrs. and I have almost divorced many times over religion. She sometimes thinks that she is Moses and I don’t. The law comes by the Mrs. Moses, but grace and truth comes by Jesus. Ah, Sweet Jesus, Rest Unto My Liquordale Soul! Yeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Heedabeedahoohoo!
John K
December 28th, 2011
11:49 am
@SouthGADawg. Way to completely miss the point. You may do better over at Worldnutdaily.
Sandy Springs Parent
December 28th, 2011
11:50 am
I recently saw a Hispanic women tell the office at my daughter’s middle school that her child had been off the day before for a Catholic religious holiday. I could do all from restraining my self from laughing and saying that even the Catholic schools are not off for that. My child
Chuck Allison
December 28th, 2011
11:51 am
In the end, there is only one true God who answers prayers and gave His son for our salvation. It is no disservice to our kids to help them avoid the pitfalls of being led into the worship of false gods.
Wow
December 28th, 2011
11:54 am
Let’s see, do not steal, do not kill, do not lie, honor your mother and father, etc. Those are so 100 A. D.
John K
December 28th, 2011
11:55 am
@Chuck. Mithros?
BigCheezie
December 28th, 2011
11:56 am
@Chuck Allison
Does God really answer prayers? What happens when people pray for something that doesn’t happen? How do you rationalize that?
Dr. Pangloss
December 28th, 2011
11:57 am
Mike Hipp
December 28th, 2011
11:23 am
Why won’t anyone use their real name in their tirades? If you’re not willing to stand behind your comments, in the form of using your real name, then your comment should be 100% discounted.
If you don’t have the conviction to use your real name when you post, why should I pay attention to anything that you say?
——————–
We don’t use our real names because some of the people who post comments here sound like the next Timothy McVeigh. We don’t want bombs in our mailboxes.
God
December 28th, 2011
11:59 am
I put humans in completely isolated jungle tribes in the Amazon, then I send them to hell for not being Christian.
Dr. Pangloss
December 28th, 2011
12:00 pm
@Infinite: a cannon is a very big gun. A canon is a collection or list of sacred books accepted as genuine. But I get your point.
SouthGADawg
December 28th, 2011
12:01 pm
@JohnK – Making snippy little comments does nothing to invalidate my point. And my point is that this is much’a'do about nothing. People need to stop being so sensitive. Sure, under various Supreme Court precedents interpretating the 1st Amendment, you have a right to practice a “religon” like paganism. Just don’t be surprised when other people don’t “get it.”
Of course, we now live in a nation of wussies, so I’m not surprised that socially-inept people like this “pagan” mother would be so offended that she needed to hire advocates and an attorney over a statement made to her child. She needs to grow a much thicker skin if she’s going to be a “pagan.”
liberalefty
December 28th, 2011
12:01 pm
screw religions …the south is the most religious part of the country and its the most racist
liberalefty
December 28th, 2011
12:02 pm
christianity is just another cult
God
December 28th, 2011
12:02 pm
I gave you all free will so that you can use it exactly as I command you to.
liberalefty
December 28th, 2011
12:03 pm
the kkk is a christian organization
John K
December 28th, 2011
12:03 pm
BigCheezie,
I can explain the prayer thing.
There are two families. In each family there is a child who is stricken with the same horrible, horrible disease. Both families are praying for a miracle. In one family, the child is cured and goes home. There is much praise about how God works wonderful miracles. In the other family, the child passes away. That is explained that God has called the child home. (at the cost of the most devastatingly painful event a parent could ever imagine) and that God answers all prayers, even if the answer is “no.”
See, isn’t that wonderful?
liberalefty
December 28th, 2011
12:04 pm
@GOD
if u know my future then how do i have free will?
John K
December 28th, 2011
12:05 pm
@SouthGADAwg, your comment “Of course, we now live in a nation of wussies, so I’m not surprised that socially-inept people like this “pagan” mother would be so offended that she needed to hire advocates and an attorney over a statement made to her child. She needs to grow a much thicker skin if she’s going to be a “pagan.””
Is especially hilarious in light of the Christian cult of victim-hood we’ve seen in this thread.
D
December 28th, 2011
12:10 pm
Hey John K, when govt. starts to cater to every individual group this is the mess that we get. We get a watered down set of rules in order to accommodate all the little sub-groups. It’s too bad that you want to capitulate to all the minority groups because this mess is your fault. When these minority and fringe groups started demanding that the majority start to change they’re beliefs in order to make everyone feel good is when this country started to go down the drain.
I’m in one of those minority religions by the way and I have never expected the majority to bend over for me. It’s called respect for the differences not demanding that everyone else change.
Aquagirl
December 28th, 2011
12:11 pm
She needs to grow a much thicker skin if she’s going to be a “pagan.”
Or maybe others could quit behaving like d!ckheads. But I can see how you’d find that completely incomprehensible.
John K
December 28th, 2011
12:11 pm
Ok D, tell us who gets rights and who doesn’t?
Right handers get more than lefties? Blondes more than redheads? Those who watch American Idol over Brady Bunch reruns?
John K
December 28th, 2011
12:12 pm
Oh and D, tell me where in the article they asked the majority to “change their belief?” I’m real curious about that.
orthotox
December 28th, 2011
12:12 pm
We’re all pagans at heart – and at history. Solstice and equinox will eventually resume their place in the world as the central universal holidays, shucking off the semitic confusions which have encrusted them for far too long. I celebrated New Year’s at 9:30 PM PST, drank a toast and felt the earth move in harmony with me and all living things, while the rest of America awaits the commemoration of a Jewish baby’s circumcision on January 1. Who’s got the real Sun on his side?
Tom
December 28th, 2011
12:13 pm
How cool would it have been to have the internet around back when Christianity was still just a ‘cult’?
liberalefty
December 28th, 2011
12:16 pm
if god is real, why doesnt he ever talk
carlosgvv
December 28th, 2011
12:17 pm
Hmmmmmmmmm – 11:12
This post shows your lack of any scientific knowledge and just plain ignorance better than I ever could. All you are doing here is just embarassing yourself by displaying what a dirt common person you are. Please go somewhere else and stop bothering intelligent people here.
BigCheezie
December 28th, 2011
12:19 pm
@ John K
Very insightful!! I knew a girl who got molested by her uncle when she was young. This was an ongoing event over several years. Every time it happened, she would pray for it to stop and never happen again. Her prayers, I guess you can say, were answered only after years and years of abuse. Today, she is still emotionally scared and sees a shrink on an ongoing basis.
So, if one chooses to worship a being than can stop this horrendous act and chooses not to, then why pray to such a being? If this being let it happen to strengthen this little girl’s soul, then why worship such a being? If this being didn’t answer her prayers because he felt she didn’t say it “in Jesus’ name” or pray long enough or her heart wasn’t in it, then why worship such a being who bases his decisions on meaningless technicalities? Why worship a being, who in the fictitious stories in the bible, has killed thousands of people and children, all because of …… oh, the people did not worship him correctly. Millions of people killed by disease, hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes, etc… But, yeah … its God’s will and we should worship him. GTFOH!
John K
December 28th, 2011
12:23 pm
@SouthGADawg, or in other words, you have nothing to say. Sorry, you just lost the internet.
BigCheezie
December 28th, 2011
12:23 pm
@SouthGADawg
Such a very nice thing to say! WWJD?? I see you take that saying to heart.
Digger
December 28th, 2011
12:24 pm
I STILL can’t find one of them talkin’ snakes.
DLink
December 28th, 2011
12:27 pm
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
- Mohandas Gandhi