Being pagan in Georgia: Do schools promote some religions while denigrating others?
UPDATE: Folks, I closed comments on this at 10 p.m. Friday. Have a great holiday weekend. Maureen
A common plaint on this blog is that religion has been banished from our public schools. The usual comment is that we have kicked God out of the schools.
But some argue that not all religions are met with hostility in the classroom, only those far outside the mainstream.
That complaint was made this month via an Internet campaign on behalf of a pagan family in Carroll County. Stephanie Turner said her 11-year-old son was singled out and punished after he took off the neopagan holiday of Samhain. Once the boy returned to class, his teacher allegedly questioned him and said, “Paganism is not a religion.” Then, the teacher assigned a class essay on “How Christmas started,” according to the complaint.
(You can read more details on the “Turner Family Support” Facebook page.)
I exchanged e-mails with Turner seeking information about her son’s experience, but then received a call from Selena Fox, founder and executive director of the Lady Liberty League, an organization that advocates for religious freedom for Wiccans, Neopagans and other nature religion practitioners.
A Wisconsin resident, Fox explained to me in our telephone conversation that she was calling on Turner’s behalf to let me know that they were attempting to meet with the school district. In the meantime, websites and pagan organizations that took up the Turner family cause urged people to send e-mails of protest to the Carroll school chief, principal and teacher. And apparently they did.
When I contacted Carroll County two weeks ago, spokeswoman Elena Schulenburg told me: We are currently working with the parent to review this matter. The e-mail was circulated over the weekend ahead of our opportunity to meet with the parent to discuss any concerns. As always, our focus is on the safety and welfare of all students.
Accompanied by four advocates including an attorney, Turner met with Carroll school officials on Dec. 12. She and her advocates issued a statement later on the outcome of that meeting: First, a sincere apology for recent events and misunderstandings has been given by school administration and accepted by the family. Second, the Bowdon Elementary School guidance counselor will educate staff and students about honoring and accepting the differences that make us individuals. Third, procedures have been put in place to ensure classroom activities don’t alienate students.
In a Dec. 13 radio interview on Pagan Warrior Radio hosted by Selena Fox, Turner thanked the national pagan community for its support, saying, “It has helped my son so much knowing that he is not alone.”
The New York Times has a good piece about the encroachment of religion in public schools. Several of the examples of proselytizing occurred in Southern schools.
The New York Times story notes:
At a school assembly here in South Carolina on Sept. 1, a preacher described how Christ saved him from drugs, telling his rapt audience that “a relationship with Jesus is what you need more than anything else.” A rapper shouted the Lord’s praise to a light show and most of the audience stepped forward to pledge themselves to Christ while a few remained, uncomfortable, in their seats.
Such overt evangelizing would not be unusual at a prayer rally, but this was a daytime celebration in a public school gymnasium, arranged by the principal for sixth, seventh and eighth graders. When the rapper posted a video on YouTube, announcing that “324 kids at this school have made a decision for Jesus Christ,” he drew unwelcome public and legal scrutiny to the event. It was the kind of religious advocacy that is increasingly coming to light, legal experts say, as school populations become more diverse and as the objection of non-Christians — or, in this case, the rejoicing of evangelists — is broadcast on the Internet.
In landmark decisions in 1962 and 1963, the Supreme Court barred official promotion of religion in schools. That principle has remained solid, if pilloried by conservatives who blame it for what they see as the nation’s moral and social decline. At the same time, the courts and Congress have also reinforced the rights of students to pray on their own and to form after-school religious clubs.
But battles over the place of religion in schools continue. This month, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit demanding that the Chesterfield County, S.C., school district end what the suit describes as the continuing promotion of religion in several of its schools, including the middle school that held the prayer rally. The A.C.L.U. brought the suit on behalf of a seventh grader who said he was subjected to unwanted proselytizing and has been harassed for his avowals of atheism.
Christian legal advocates counter that such plain violations are far less common than the opposite problem: overzealous officials trying to cleanse the schools of religion, punishing students for protected speech like personal prayer or handing out devotional messages to their friends.
Watchdog groups like the A.C.L.U., Americans United for Separation of Church and State and the Freedom From Religion Foundation say that in the last few years, they have learned more often about what they call blatant violations like the South Carolina rally. It is unclear, they say, whether the number of such events is growing, or whether they are now more likely to come to light. But still, these advocates say, even when clear violations occur, concerned families are often reluctant to bring legal challenges because they fear social hostility.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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563 comments Add your comment
DC
December 28th, 2011
9:23 am
@Sandy D…uhhhhhhhhh…..
Christmas – celebration of the birth of Jesus
Easter – the death of Jesus that we may live
Halloween – not celebrated by most christian churches…you have “fall festivals” instead..you probably think Jesus was some tightwad too…the man turned water into wine…not apple cider hah..
your counter point….
Hmmmmmmm
December 28th, 2011
9:24 am
Kevin,
He has been kicked out of school….. That’s precisely why our schools are doing so well… I mean we have kids fighting, killing, committing all kinds of criminal acts…. What more could you want from your local school system… I mean it works so well without God… Good Grief…
Yankee Prof
December 28th, 2011
9:24 am
I place the following statement on every syllabus I create for class: An education at a public, non-denominational college or university serves to prepare an individual for successful engagement within the secular world, a place of diverse and often contradictory beliefs, where logos, or logic, is the primary arbiter of justification. References to and quotations from texts such as the Bible, Koran, I Ching or any other foundational religious text do not hold the authority of certainty, here, that they often carry within a community of like-minded believers. To be aware of this distinction is not to diminish the quality or character of any religious faith; rather, it is to be aware of one’s individual responsibility to function constructively within a diverse world.
Jason
December 28th, 2011
9:25 am
Religion is like a penis.
It’s fine to have one, and it’s fine to be proud of it.
But please don’t whip it out in public and start waving it around.
And PLEASE don’t try to shove it down my children’s throats.
-borrowed from a billboard
Grob Hahn
December 28th, 2011
9:26 am
You should see the way our neighbors gripe when we sacrifice a goat for Saturnalia. Some people, I swear.
Grobbbbbbbbb
Greg
December 28th, 2011
9:28 am
My Take: When Bedford Falls Becomes Pottersville – great read on CNN’s belief section on what happens when Christianity is removed from a culture–excerpt below:
According to the research of The Barna Group, Christians are the most charitable segment of the population by a substantial margin. Hence, any society that is liberally sprinkled with them has a greater concern for the poor, sick, orphaned and widowed – “the least of these,” as Jesus called them. (This is precisely what Nietzsche, and Hitler after him, hated about Christianity.)
John K
December 28th, 2011
9:29 am
@occupy my desk. Ahhh, teabaggerism, the belief that .0003% of the population does not fall under the same protections as the majority.
kool$kat
December 28th, 2011
9:29 am
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Many are called Christian, or call themselves Christian (even our President); but unless one accepts that Jesus was the sinless Son of God, come to earth in human form to live and die for our sins, resurrected to defeat death, and soon to return and reign forever as our Lord and Savior; and that He is the ONLY path to God, then one is not a Christian. And a true Christian will bear fruit, which means one will necessarily try to steer others toward Christ and away from eternal separation from God.
John K
December 28th, 2011
9:30 am
—#occupy my desk, Ahhh, teabaggerism, the belief that .0003% of the population do not get the same protections as the majority.
Bob
December 28th, 2011
9:31 am
You cannot train a child without inculcating religious values. It may be secular humanism (which the SCOTUS has acknowledged as a religion), but SOMEONE’s religion will be pressed upon the children. It is the nature of education.
So, it is best to teach the true religion, Christianity. Adopting Christianity as the framework from which we educate our children does not force anyone to convert or do anything they do not want to do. They are free to disagree, or free to educate their children by other means. But trying to educating children based on false religion is a bad idea, and, among other things, does indeed contribute significantly to the degradation and disintegration of our once-great nation.
John K
December 28th, 2011
9:31 am
@occupy my desk, tea partyism, the belief that .0003% of the population do not get the same protections as the majority. All while the majority claims victimization.
Mark
December 28th, 2011
9:32 am
This whole mess just shows the problems of a public school system that tries to meet the needs of everyone…….in the end, no one is really satisfied.
I used to be a teacher in the public schools, now I teach at a Christian school. I would really hate to think that I have to plan everything I do at school around which students will or will not be in class on any given day due to whatever holiday may be occurring on any given day. It’s just nuts.
I would much rather see parents be able to use their school tax money to send their children to the school of their choosing. That would solve a lot of these type problems.
Bryan in SouthGA
December 28th, 2011
9:33 am
Peace on earth and good will to some men.
John K
December 28th, 2011
9:33 am
LOL @ people who think God has been kicked out of school. The anti-government crowd wanting government subsidized religion. Obviously because they are incapable of teaching faith to their own children, they need to have the state to do it.
Big Al
December 28th, 2011
9:34 am
Josh, so basically your argument is as follows:
1) The Bible affirms that it is inerrant.
2) Whatever the Bible says is true.
Therefore:
3) The Bible is inerrant.
That’s called a circular argument becausue your conclusion is amoung your premises. That’s how all Christians attempt to prove their arguments and that’s why educated people do not take them seriously.
GM of IST @ CCDOE in GMU
December 28th, 2011
9:35 am
Paganism is to religion as Taco Bell is to Mexican food.
Being pagan in Georgia: Do schools promote some religions while denigrating … – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Tanzania - iWooho.com
December 28th, 2011
9:35 am
[...] Being pagan in Georgia: Do schools promote some religions while denigrating …Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)A common plaint on this blog is that religion has been banished from our public schools. The usual comment is that we have kicked God out of the schools. But some argue that not all religions are met with hostility in the classroom, only those far …Christians give Atheists ammunitionNews24Fellowhip rather than religionMuncie Star PressBattling Anew Over the Place of Religion in Public SchoolsNew York TimesJamaica Gleaner -Times of India -Isle of Man Todayall 39 news articles » // [...]
kevin
December 28th, 2011
9:36 am
Hmmm and #occupy on my desk,
I would love to see any credible statistical data that supports a rise in crime being attributed to God being a part or not a part of schools. Crime and violence almost exclusively stems from economic and sociological issues.
And, it’s worth noting, historically, there has been unrivaled violence perpetrated in the name of God.
Religion was used to explain the world before we had science. It’s mind-blowing that any grown, sane person continues to believe such utter nonsense.
John K
December 28th, 2011
9:38 am
So when God was in Georgia’s schools, they were segregated?
Edward
December 28th, 2011
9:39 am
I wish christians really were being persecuted. Bring on the lions!
Tammy
December 28th, 2011
9:40 am
Big Al – Exactly the point…..My Jesus conquered death, sin, hell, and the grave by rising on the third day. No other “god” can claim that VICTORY! Thank you, Jesus!
People – It’s about a RELATIONSHIP with a Savior who chose (He didn’t have to!) to come down to this dust ball planet because He loves you that much! If you were the only person ever born, He would’ve still come to cleanse you of unrighteousness so that you can live eternally in His presence. It’s NOT about one specific religion or ANY religion.
Jesus chose to take my place and suffer for me than ever live without me. What an awesome thing! I AM A DAUGHTER OF THE MOST HIGH KING!
thomas
December 28th, 2011
9:41 am
Wow, Bob. You started off so sane and open minded then went all fundamentalist in the remaining paragraph(s). All religions state that they are true. Have you been able to disprove other faiths any more or less than you’ve been able to establish solid footing for yours?
Because if it is truly a leap of faith for any belief system, then no one else is any more wrong in their fervent following of a dogma than you are right in yours.
Tom
December 28th, 2011
9:41 am
“….the true religion….”
Translation: MY religion is the true one, because it’s mine. YOUR religion is a false one, because it is not mine.
*facepalm*
FSM
December 28th, 2011
9:42 am
All Hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster! I only say this because if the Christians insist on being in schools, indoctrinating our children, I have every right, as an American, to ensure the teachings of the Flying Spaghetti Monster religion equally and without obstruction. Perhaps if we left church in the churches and homes, and the schools with teaching our children the stuff on the SAT, ACT and what they’ll need for college, it would all work just a little better.
December 28th, 2011
9:42 am
“Religion was used to explain the world before we had science. It’s mind-blowing that any grown, sane person continues to believe such utter nonsense.”
Science still hasn’t explained the world. Only a small part, and simply cannot explain the origin of our world.
You can sit down now.
Tad Jackson
December 28th, 2011
9:43 am
WHEN RELIGION AND SCHOOL COLLIDED IN GOOD FUN AND GIGGLES …
One of the greatest academic accomplishments of my life was in sixth grade when I led my team of classmates in running off a substitute teacher. Her name was Miss Anderson. Wanda Lynn Anderson. She sang for money at a lot of local churches, too. I know this because my parents made me go to church every damn Sunday.
For three hours, beginning while we were mangling the Pledge of Allegiance, we delivered a highly coordinated psychological attack on Miss Anderson … and then she ran off. Before lunch, too.
After Miss Anderson sort of had a nervous breakdown she trotted right on out of the classroom with her purse and her coffee mug. She had come to the belief, which she verbalized a number of times to us, that we were all possessed by Satan.
We all ran to the windows at the back of the classroom and watched her get into her car and drive off. Miss Anderson had put her coffee mug on the roof of her Corvette while she fiddled with her keys and when she peeled out of her parking spot the mug tumbled down the back of her car and busted apart on the asphalt.
After we stopped cheering, I strongly suggested to my team that we draw and color and read books and play our educational board games while we kept real, real quiet. I walked up to the front of the classroom and eased the door shut.
Forty-five minutes after Mrs. Anderson took herself off of the substitute teacher list, the assistant principal, the real cheerful Mrs. Nix, bopped by to see how Miss Anderson was doing. Mrs. Nix found out, after looking around the classroom and then by asking us a number of questions that she demanded we answer, that Miss Anderson had left the building. I told Mrs. Nix that we all felt Miss Anderson would not be returning. Ever.
http://www.adixiediary.com
December 28th, 2011
9:43 am
“All Hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster! ”
Nominated for dumb-as$ comment of the day.
Congratulations.
catlady
December 28th, 2011
9:43 am
As a teacher of young children, I am frequently asked about Jesus, what I believe, etc. My area is 99% Christian (at least 85% rabid Southern/primitive/hardshell Baptist, and a few Methodists and Catholics), with a very few Jews, Hindis, and wiccans. I tell the child that I appreciate their question; it is important; that they should go home and talk to their parents about what THEY believe.
I am very uncomfortable, still, with the Christian Learning Center on “private property” that somehow is 100% surrounded by the public school property. It was built about 25 years ago. Students can opt to take classes there as electives, and a bus is run 10 yards down the hill to it. Not surprisingly, it has been run the entire time by Southern Baptist men as the teacher/leader. As far as I can tell, there is only one version of Christian spoken there. I don’t think it should be allowed during the school day; as a Christian I am uncomfortable with anyone setting up shop on school grounds.
As a Christian, I can celebrate my faith without sticking it in the face of others, particularly during school time with young, impressionable kids. Now, if one of them asks me, “Do you believe in Jesus?” I absolutely tell them yes. But I tell them that talking to their parents about what they believe is very important, and now that they are starting to think about that, it would be good to ask mom and dad their questions.
border dweller
December 28th, 2011
9:45 am
I was in the fourth grade when they took Jesus out of our school, but few of us missed him a whole lot. Over the summer, those clever demonic school board members had removed the Jesus hand fans and put in central heat and air. During these sweltering south Georgia September afternoons, coming in all hot and sweaty from recess, we worshiped the cooling blast arising from the air vent in the floor; and this quickly displaced the Nazarene as the one true miracle in our lives. Unaware, we swapped a few years of climatic bliss for an eternity of brimstone.
John K
December 28th, 2011
9:46 am
“Science still hasn’t explained the world. Only a small part, and simply cannot explain the origin of our world.
You can sit down now.”
Unlike religion, science freely admits it does not know everything. That’s why there’s the scientific method, trial and error, and the understanding that hypotheses can indeed be proved false.
Religion goes on the basis of “it’s true because I believe it to be true.”
Hmmmmmmm
December 28th, 2011
9:47 am
Kevin,
Read your bible…. All the statistics and examples are there… It’s really not that complicated…
kevin
December 28th, 2011
9:47 am
December 28th, 2011
9:42 am,
Oh yes, and the Bible with all that God created the world in 6 days and woman from the rib of man stuff is pretty convincing!
Actually, science has explained quite a bit. And, some version of the big bang theory, even if not fully understood, is almost universally scientifically accepted.
Good Mother
December 28th, 2011
9:48 am
I am a Christian and I am uncomfortable with the moment of silence at the beginning of the day. It’s a way to force “every head to bow and eye to close” as we used to say, in church.
Although my children “study” all religions in school, Christianity is certainly preferrred. Face it, we get a two-week break from school because of Christmas. You can call it “winter break” but we all know what is going on. No one is fooled.
The school attendance policy is discriminatory because it does not recognize other religions. It doesn’t accomodate them with a two week break. It would be impossible. We’d never be in school. However, this teacher’s overt admonishment to the student that “paganism” is not a religion needs to get that teacher thrown out.
Freedom of religion is a core American value. It is a cornerstone of Democracy, which we claim to hold dear and we claim we must protect. That means ALL religions get protection, not just the religion we believe in.
For all you Wiccans, pagans, and atheists and others…I value you and trust you and I will uphold your rights. I am raising my children to do the same. All we Christians aren’t the same as “East Repeat” and others like him/her.
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
9:48 am
Pagans are smelly pirate hookers…only they wear antler adourned head dresses.
Jesus told his disciples that his return would be when few people loved him….looks like that is beooming more and more apparent by the day. When America….a country founded on Christian principles…..turns its back on Jesus and villifys people for wanted Jesus mentioned in Christmas or villifys kids for praying in school its a shame.
the most shameful part is in the middle East where they are having their “Arab spring” christians are being shut out by the new radical govts being installed and yet none of the these leftist atheist say one word about it. they care more about little Johnny saying a prayer or using God in the pledge.
Smokey
December 28th, 2011
9:49 am
And, some version of the big bang theory, even if not fully understood, is almost universally scientifically accepted.
So, something that is not fully understood is universally accepted. Sounds like a religion to me.
catlady
December 28th, 2011
9:49 am
Oops-that is 100 yards down the hill, not 10.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster Lives!
December 28th, 2011
9:50 am
Well, the only true god is the one that brings you hookers and beer volcanoes in the afterlife! We should all feel blessed to have been created from His noodley appendage. Existence is perfection, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster is perfect, therefore, the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists!
He boiled for your sins matey!
R’Amen!
Hmmmmmmm
December 28th, 2011
9:50 am
John K,
Faith is like the air… You can’t see it, but you can feel it… You can find all the proof you need in the bible….. Like it or not, it’s the only road map you need….
Ron Burgundy
December 28th, 2011
9:50 am
Its funny how religion has become less important in todays society and society has progressively gone downhill….hmmmm.
Kevin Stewart
December 28th, 2011
9:52 am
People who can deny facts and deceive themselves with religion, should keep their delusions to themselves. I want freedom from all religions. Religion is nothing more than blind faith in rantings of those that have fooled themselves. Religious beliefs are now, and have been throughout history, the cause of prejudice, conflict, and alienation. When will speaking the truth not get one burned at the stake?
dawgfan
December 28th, 2011
9:52 am
Religion and science are not mutually exclusive concepts. They actually compliment one another. Just as religion can’t explain how humans evolved from apes, science can’t explain why it happened. I’m tired of morons pitting them against one another. Science is very useful to tell us HOW the world works but there is one question it can never answer: WHY? That’s where religion comes in. So you think there is no purpose to all this and we’re just flecks of dust on a rock spinning through space? Okay, great. You’re entitled to that opinion and I could care less. I’m entitled to believe that there is more to it than that. Science cannot prove me wrong. Its arrogant and ignorant to suggest that it can.
Thanks.
kevin
December 28th, 2011
9:54 am
Hmmmm,
Having read the bible, I can confirm that there is no statistical evidence regarding the behavior of students in schools with or without God. There is some fun stuff about a guy living in a fish and sacrificing goats to please God though.
John K
December 28th, 2011
9:55 am
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Wow, amazingly convincing argument there! What’s next, you going to say I need to listen to my “still, small voice?”
Name (required)
December 28th, 2011
9:55 am
The bible is a great read, when not taken as 100% truth and more of a book of lessons using relateable (but fictional) characters, even though some of them are incredibly outdated. I think some people take it way too seriously and think it is word-for-word true. That may have been the intent of the authors, but to say something is 100% true only “because it’s in the bible” is short-sighted. Use your brains, people…..a worldwide flood? A man surviving a one-way ticket into a whale’s stomach? A woman turning into salt? Come on!
Think!
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
December 28th, 2011
9:55 am
Oh wow. Religion in schools. Always such a lively discussion – and generally marked by a great deal of erroneous information and misunderstandings of what is allowed in schools and what is not permissible in terms of religion. When it comes to religion and public education most folks really do not know where the line is drawn – and unfortunately, this includes many teachers who will avoid ANY mention of religion or non-religious beliefs of ANY kind to avoid accidentally crossing that line.
I blame in part, the school systems themselves, for rather than providing training for teachers on what is lawful in terms of religion, they too try to sidestep the entire issues by ignoring it and hoping it never arises – and then you get incidents like the one mentioned here. For you see, no matter how much teachers and administration would like to skirt the issue, children do not always adhere to that policy.
Every teacher should have a familiarity with what is and is not allowed in the classroom with regards to religion. They should have a prepared response to religious questions and commentary – because children are going to ask questions and raise issues, whether the teacher would like to ignore the whole quagmire! As society as a whole gets more confrontational and outspoken on issues, so too do the children. It is not unusual for me to have my religious and non-religious students get into a confrontation over belief systems these days. It is not my place to declare one belief system superior to another, or one “right” and another “wrong.” It IS, however, my job to insure that ALL my students feel comfortable in my classroom, and that they treat each other in a respectful manner, whether they agree with each other or not – a lesson many adults would benefit from learning as well.
Hmmmmmmm
December 28th, 2011
9:56 am
Great Idea John K
Lynn
December 28th, 2011
9:57 am
Christians in the U.S. are not persecuted. On the contrary, they are catered to. Witness how hard Presidential candidates must work to convince people they are “Christian.” I just wish more Christians would strive to live according to Jesus’s teachings via the Sermon on the Mount. We’d hear a lot less about “people need to get a job and help themselves…oh, and accept Jesus as their savior and quit whining.” We’d see people actually loving their neighbors as themselves. Jesus said the entire teachings of the faith were summed up in two admonishments: “Love the Lord will all your strength, and Love your Neighbor as yourself.” If more Christians tried to live like this, they wouldn’t have to proselytize. People would be knocking down their doors begging to know their God. Instead, most Christians whine about their rights, mock the poor, clean their guns, and moan about evil liberals. I’m over it.
dawgfan
December 28th, 2011
9:57 am
“Unlike religion, science freely admits it does not know everything.”
That’s not true. If you have ever read the Bible, which you obviously haven’t, you would know that it contains agnostic philosophies about how there are things that humans simply cannot understand. Hence the word FAITH. So you choose not to have that faith? Great. Its a free country. I choose to have that faith. I choose to believe that there is meaning to this life beyond the natural world that we can see in front of us. You are right about one thing. Science doesn’t pretend it can even address that issue so why are you trying to?
Good grief.
Jim Tavegia
December 28th, 2011
9:58 am
You and only you are accountable for what you believe. And you will be held accountable. If you choose to believe nothing, that is also a choice you make every day. The majority of the founding fathers were God fearing men and this country has succeeded for the most part as a God fearing nation up until recently. The problem now is parents would rather work that raise their children as STUFF is their new god. Now if your child doesn’t have the latest phone or IPod, or now the IPad, life for that child is over as we know it. I just read where parents of children all under 8 were given IPads for Christmas. What might have been better was a TI-84+ they could actually use in school, not something for them to waste more time on FaceBook. I have seen lazy reach epidemic heights in public school with a lack of respect follow right behind. Neglectful parents falling right in line to take their child’s side in every instance of failure to follow school rules because parents feel guilty for not being with them more. But, mostly it is just that there is the attitude that “you aren’t telling me or my child what to do, rules or not. Or maybe not. All you have to do is listen to the BillBoard top 100 to know where this nation is headed. What people buy, watch, wear, and listen is who they are. Your religion is what you spend your money on. May you be happy with the life you have chosen and how Christianity scares you so that you really don’t want to be around believers. You can tell Christians by what the do, not what they say. Deceivers are even in pulpits as we have seen in the news locally. Say one thing, but do another. You can walk with the devil, millions do it every day. Turn the new on it is there. Washington is full of it. More self-serving people taking $4 million Christmas vacations and others spending it in $10,000 a day suites. Now that is some leadership for you in these tough economic times.
Doug Stanhope
December 28th, 2011
9:59 am
I don’t think they should be able to teach religion until you’re 18 years old, and you know what? It would be a whole different world. Because if they weren’t pushing that sh-t into your head while it was still soft, you’d never buy it, not for a minute. If you’d never heard about the Bible and none of your friends had ever heard about Christianity and you just found a Bible in a used book store, oh, you’d jump right on that, wouldn’t you? ‘Oh, this sounds so logical, yes! The cave, and the ark, an oh, yeah! Hey Donny, I think I found the meaning of life here.’ No! You’d f—ing chuck it in the waste basket, you would.