Why aren’t people more concerned about the impact on kids from CRCT cheating scandal?
Albany Herald columnist Carlton Fletcher talked to the mother of a child in the Dougherty County schools about the fallout from the erupting CRCT scandal there and wrote a good piece about the conversation.
As we discussed here six days ago, state investigators issued a scathing report on cheating in Dougherty County schools, writing that there was “an acceptance of wrongdoing and a pattern of incompetence that is a blight on the community that will feel its effects for generations to come. This is the Dougherty County School System. Hundreds of school children were harmed by extensive cheating in the Dougherty County School System. In 11 schools, 18 educators admitted to cheating. We found cheating on the 2009 CRCT in all of the schools we examined. A total of 49 educators were involved in some form of misconduct or failure to perform their duty with regard to this test.
The mother told Fletcher that she was frustrated with the people who see the scandal only through its impact on the adults named in the cheating report. She wanted someone to write about how the allegations of cheating affected the children.
Here is an excerpt from the column:
The mom told me a little about her son, about how he doesn’t quite know how to deal with the things he’s hearing about the scandal. Although the bright-eyed youngster was timid about talking with me, he did say one thing that stuck with me.
“People are saying (here, the youngster mentioned the name of one of his teachers) did wrong, that she cheated,” he said in a voice that was halting and quiet. “My mama always told me that cheating is wrong, but I don’t want (teacher) to get in trouble. She just wanted us to do good on our tests.”
Her son’s comments brought tears to the young mom’s eyes. “I think that’s the worst thing about all this,” she said. “The people whose names are in the newspaper and on the television, the people who we trusted to educate our children, they took a shortcut to try and make themselves look better. They were willing to do what they knew was wrong just so they could meet some quota.
“They didn’t think about the little children like my son who idolize them and look to them for guidance. I know it’s not their job to raise my child, but it is their job to reinforce what I’ve tried to teach him. And one of those main things I’ve tried to teach is what’s right and what’s wrong.”
I offered no meaningful response to the woman’s comments. Clearly, she wanted to vent. And, frankly, I didn’t know what to say. I’ve said for years that No Child Left Behind, while good-intentioned, is a flawed standard by which school systems are judged. Among its unintended byproducts is a tendency of teachers to “teach tests” and, apparently, of educators to seek shortcuts to meet what most agree are all but unattainable standards.
But blaming this piece of legislation for unethical and illegal behavior is an example of one of America’s favorite cop-outs and one of its people’s biggest failings: finding a way to point a finger at others for our own shortcomings.
The CRCT scandal has a face for me now. When I listen to some bureaucrat use mumbo-jumbo to try and explain away the action of people who should have known better, I’ll think of this mother and her son, innocents who are left to pay a steep price for others’ betrayal. And I’ll also think, sadly, about the words of a friend who teaches in the school system: They’re only beginning to scratch the surface.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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113 comments Add your comment
carlosgvv
December 26th, 2011
10:21 am
All out social expermintation started in the 60’s to try and improve minority test scores. I suspect those in the know quickly realized that cheating was the one and only way to guarantee that the “no child left behind” concept could ever be made to work. So, look for a lot of sighs, hand-wringing and more experimentation since to publicly tell the truth would be unimagimably politically incorrect.
Jennifer Falk
December 26th, 2011
10:25 am
Your story brings back one of my fondest memories over the past decade. Early into the public announcements regarding the cheating scandal in APS, I attended a state board of education meeting. While the board was engaged in a discussion about the schools involved and their concern about adults who cheated, there was one State Board member, Ms. Zechman who, with just one simple inquiry, stopped the discussion cold. She asked what resources the district or state would be prepared to provide for the students who were cheated out of their education. You could have heard a pin drop.
nelson
December 26th, 2011
10:30 am
Cheating is too harsh a term, it is used for so many ominous happenings like spouse cheating, income tax cheating. I would much rather say “misrepresenting academic skills”. Now, is not that better.? It can become a way of living sooooo the sooner a stop is put to it the better.
Tonya C.
December 26th, 2011
10:30 am
Because many of these kids, at least in my experience, were already doing poorly to begin with. That is the crux of the problem. NCLB was expected to magically overcome the social issues that surround failing schools instead of actually solving the problems themselves. Now that I have a child in both middle and elementary school, and I have seen both the great and the not-so-great of public schools—I get it. I don’t excuse the cheating, but the supposed gains these students would have made I’m afraid wouldn’t have really materialized either way.
Let’s not forget that social promotion is still alive and well. And that many of the students who did fail the CRCT were committee-promoted instead of being retained anyway.
drew (former teacher)
December 26th, 2011
10:44 am
Well boo-freakin-hoo! How will these poor students EVER overcome the trauma of discovering that people sometimes cheat! Oh the horror! Perhaps we should make extra counselors available to help these poor children work through this horrific experience!
Maureen…you started to get it right (”I’ve said for years that No Child Left Behind, while good-intentioned, is a flawed standard by which school systems are judged.”), but then you dismiss that reasoning as finger pointing. Your first instinct was correct…NCLB IS the culprit here. Schools cheat for one reason: to make AYP! And as long as NCLB provides schools with a reason to cheat, there will be cheaters.
And your “beginning to scratch the surface” comment is dead-on. Indeed, we’d have to be pretty naive to think that the cheating is limited to those already exposed. And now that other systems have seen how these schools got caught, you can bet they’ll be more careful from here on out.
Erica Long
December 26th, 2011
10:44 am
Thanks so much for this post. One of my biggest frustrations of this tragedy is that so much of the focus has been on the feelings or well-being of adults. Since Ralph initially called for Beverly Hall’s immediate termination from APS, entirely too much of the feedback he heard from people was over the outcomes for the implicated adults. The focus should have always been the generation of children who were robbed of their one best shot at a high quality public education. Until we create child-centered schools, we will fail.
Tony
December 26th, 2011
10:45 am
The larger concern is how all the children’s education is being shortchanged due to the strict test-prep curricula being implemented in our schools. This is where our outrage should be focused. This is not to say that the cheating scandals are not a problem, but there effects on kids is not as great as the narrowed instructional opportunities in so many classrooms today. Tests have been oversold as an important means for school improvement. These children are paying a double price: failed policies from Atlanta and Washington and cheating on the tests.
catlady
December 26th, 2011
10:57 am
In a sense, your friend has said it correctly. I think We (the BIG we–not just teachers and educators) have cheated the kids unilaterally in several ways:
1. The test cheating-enough said
2. And even worse, the institutional academic cheating, ie test retakes, no grade below 50, etc.
3. Governmental cheating (We will give you $2 billion less than last year, but we expect higher results) (All kids will be on grade level by 2014-which would work, by the way, if we kept kids back until they WERE on grade level), (Overweight kids…Hey, here is another job we can load off on the schools!)
4.Parental cheating (It’ s up to the school to make you learn; it’s not my job)
5. Corporate cheating (Why should we have to pay taxes?)
And a hundred other ways our students are cheated out of the chance to earn (see that word) a good education for the well-being of our country.
DCSS Teacher
December 26th, 2011
11:11 am
Dougherty County (Albany) has been rate the 4th poorest city in America for the past two years, I suspect it would be higher but they included Lee County. Lee County is a white flight bedroom community to the north of Albany.. Nothing will change in the DCSS, there is no drive to make it happen. A few will be allowed to retire, maybe one or two will be released and others will wait until the public angst to subside. I do not place all the blame on the teachers, (no I did not and will not cheat period), the school board (state and local) and the public have created this debacle and now refuse to own it! The past Superintendent touted her vast increase in the graduation rate, a 51% to near 85%, inprovements as great as that do not happen. It is the same idea as moving the USS Carl Vinson as if it was a bass boat, no way can that happen. No one questioned the dramatic increase, the same way the APS had drastic jumps in improvement. All the leaders wanted to believe the lies being presented and only a few questioned it, but they were drowned out by everyone patting themselves on the back for solving the education dilemma. Education is a combination of a vast array of influencing ingredients, social, ethnic, economical, religous and the list goes on. Change can come but it takes a long hard effort over time to make that happen. Until the public stops looking for a magic pill and understands it will take time, change in education will not happen. The cheating of these students had been occurring prior to this scandal and most likely will continue. The damage done to these student will never corrected no matter how much corrective instruction given the educational scars will remain with them all their lives.
Hall's Driver
December 26th, 2011
11:20 am
When will you freaking parents get that a teacher’s job is still just a job. Like any other industry, except you want to force emotions that can’t be forced. Stop expecting teachers to save your kids…they may have their own to worry about.
Halftrack
December 26th, 2011
11:28 am
Social engineering by the Government is one issue of concern. Second is that “elite’s” think they know more than anyone else how to handle a problem. Third, is that the PTO’s of the local area has little or no influence on the Political, Bd’s of Ed, and School officials and hold some to accountability. No one is listening to the voting public anymore. In short it is hard to fight City Hall as we watch our children grow up and do not know how to think critically about anything and go through life like experimental mice.
bootney farnsworth
December 26th, 2011
11:32 am
where’s the outrage? simple.
people no longer care.
after the abomination of APS, the implosions of Clayton and DeKalb, social promotions, ect ect ect most people simply view the public ed system as something like taxes to be endured. most people just hope
we don’t screw up any worse than we already do.
atlmom
December 26th, 2011
11:59 am
the thing is the schools can’t do what they need to do to get kids to do what they need to do. They are so afraid of lawsuits, they do nothing.
So one kid can disrupt a class, and the rest of the class has to wait around to learn, if it ever happens. If kids aren’t behaving, or worse, they should be taken out of the classroom, period (and put into an institution that can help them learn how to behave). But kids are allowed to do whatever, the teacher has to deal with it, there’s little help from a principal and no help from the administration.
We should get rid of the dept of ed. at the federal level because it comes up with idiotic ideas like no child left behind. Get the feds out of the education business.
It would be hunky dory if the federal govt came around with standards for schools, and with recommendations, but they don’t – they have no idea what they are doing and we have spent billions (probably trillions) over the years, and have little to show for it.
another aps teacher
December 26th, 2011
12:00 pm
Want the kids to learn? Start with going back to basics-phonics, math facts, rote memorization of basic skills. everyone can do that regardless of income or SES status. We understand that students can learn to read if they don’t know the letters of the alphabet. Why can’t we accept that students will never be proficient in math if they don’t know math facts? Hiring teachers who can name the capitols of the 50 states AND locate the states on a map would help improve our social studies scores. When I was a little girl teachers were expected to know more than just their subjects, and all of my elementary school teachers knew more math than the students were expected to learn. In my hometown no one got a teaching certificate that covered grades k-12 just because they had a college degree, as was the practice in Atlanta a scant 30 years ago.
Get off of the social promotion high horse. Social promotion is not for the self esteem of the kid being promoted, it is for the safety of the kids he will be sitting next to if he is retained. I asked before and I will ask again: Do you want your nine year old little girl sitting next to a pubescent 12 year old who has repeated the 4th grade twice because he can’t pass the test? Think about it… And while you are thinking about that, think about this too. If Johnny failed the 5th grade math test twice, why would anyone think he is ready to do 6th grade math? That does not compute (pun intended).
atlmom
December 26th, 2011
12:02 pm
oh, and the cheating scandal is horrific. It’s that these kids really didn’t learn this material (that really isn’t that difficult, it shouldn’t take more than a month to teach) – and then their parents/etc thought that they knew it, and they all moved on to the next lesson…so they were cheated over and again, because the parents thought they were learning (however, really…um…I quiz my kids every day as to what they are learning, so what exactly were these teachers doing every day with these kids? really? It’s craziness, actually).
There was some school system that was ONLY teaching math and reading. That’s it – in preparation for these tests. Idiotic. But my question is: NOT ONE PARENT in the whole school system ever asked their kids what they were doing? REALLY? Weird strange and awful.
Sam
December 26th, 2011
12:05 pm
We have clear evidence that some teachers did not resist cheating when there was pressure on the outcome. It’s not evidence that all teachers cheat. I am sure they do not. At the same time, the scandal does create a set of questions about the moral commitment and courage of some of those teaching our children and those administering their education. This is the root of the problem. The fault is not in the temptation but in the cowardly choice of the people involved.
Cheating cheats the kids. Having kids taught by educators who would cheat is a bigger problem and we are not yet close to its root.
atlmom
December 26th, 2011
12:07 pm
hear hear aps teacher! Social promotion is idiotic, but the whole idea of the grades the way they are is idiotic to begin with. Putting kids together just because they are the same age is stupid. Why do we do that? then a teacher with 20 kids has to ‘teach to the kid’ for each of them. Rather than putting them together by ability (which I suppose we start to do in middle school). Why do we waste so much time in elem. school putting kids together by age? It’s dumb.
And in the end, many other schools in most of the world DO NOT have 7-8 hours of school a day. Many of them have four, and they are still ahead of us academically. Hmmm…how does that work.
I always say: outside of the US – those other school systems are homogeneous – all those kids pretty much are from the same culture/background/value system.
But that’s not the case with Israel. And they seem to be doing pretty well.
Maxine
December 26th, 2011
12:15 pm
By cheating, is that saying that the students cannot and / or will not be able to grasp the material on the test? If the students have not been exposed to the subject material on the test, then they most likely will not pass. For example, if there are fractions on the test and the student has been going to the same school since 1st grade and has never been exposed to fractions, they will fail. What I find is that a lot of the schools in the poor or minority neighborhoods have a curriculum that does not allow the students to compete with students in other schools. I attribute the problems to both parents and administrators. Parents need to get involved and demand better education for their children, and administrators need to provide the best education for the children. All of the poor performing schools need to revamp their curriculum starting with the 1st grade.
Tonya C.
December 26th, 2011
12:28 pm
atlmom:
Yes yes yes! Grouping kids by ability, the lack of real interaction between parents and their kids, non-homogeneous society with competing principles and values, and the inability of the public to accept reality that some kids will be left behind….leads us to where we are now. Let’s not even discuss the behavior issues in schools today, because no one wants to even look at that elephant in room.
Are We There Yet?
December 26th, 2011
12:30 pm
Why are all of my comments “Awaiting Moderation?” They are not ones that call others inappaopriate names, have inappropriate racial remarks, nor are they singling out persons who are not considered public officials. What gives Maureen???
a
December 26th, 2011
12:38 pm
How much of this “teacher cheating” is a direct result of diploma buying in colleges? You do remember the diploma buying scandal from the lesser accredited colleges that was quickly swept under the rug a few years ago. Right?
atlmom
December 26th, 2011
12:40 pm
tonya: the reality is that whatever we’re doing isn’t working.
But it’s not ONLY a school issue. It’s an issue of so many other things working together (when a parents just collects a check from the govt, they don’t really see a huge value in education, given that their kid can just collect same check in a few years. and…kid doesn’t know what it is to get a job because they’ve never seen parent getting a job, etc etc). There are so many issues, and then again, there are so many people who thing our govt has the answers, and they do clearly don’t. I know plenty of people who tell me what they think the govt *should* do and that we should keep throwing money at these programs (i.e., fed. dept of ed) – because it *could* be doing something else.
That’s all well and good, but really – it doesn’t and it has never. why are we throwing away so many dollars on programs that aren’t working at the fed level? Jobs program, I suppose.
Lisa B.
December 26th, 2011
12:40 pm
When will we accept that one educational shoe does not fit all kids? I’ve worked in elementary, middle and high schools. By 5th grade, or even earlier, some students have already disengaged themselves from academics. Despite repeated failure, schools continue to force-feed these students academic material they have no interest in learning. Students drop-out in droves because they don’t value what we teach them. Schools need to offer options beside the college track. Students must be given opportunities to learn marketable skills so they can graduate high school and get jobs. Retaining kids until they are 2 or 3 grade levels behind is not the answer. We need to shift those students into vocational areas. All students are not the same. Schools need to stop pretending they are.
Lee
December 26th, 2011
12:47 pm
Sorry, these kids were not cheated by teachers changing answers on a test. They were cheated when they were sitting in fifth grade and couldn’t read. They were cheated when teachers and administrators closed their eyes and held their noses and passed them along from grade to grade when they couldn’t do the work.
We’ve blogged about this extensively. These kids were cheated by teachers, administrators, parents, school board, and policy.
I’m not concerned about the impact on kids from CRCT cheating scandals. I’m concerned that my tax dollars are being flushed down the toilet by the politically correct “equal outcomes” idiots who are cheating these kids out of their futures.
Vinny
December 26th, 2011
12:53 pm
Because people will cry ‘raaaaaaaaaaciiiiiiisssssm
JT
December 26th, 2011
12:59 pm
Exactly what impact would that be? Don’t you realize that the majority of the time students are passed on to the next grade regardless of whether or not they passed portions of the CRCT? The whole thing’s a pathetic joke. Perhaps if teachers weren’t constantly harassed and made to live in fear for their jobs, the alleged cheating wouldn’t be an issue. Of course, we’re all overpaid, incompetent, lazy fools with no rights or feelings whatsoever, aren’t we Downey?
atlmom
December 26th, 2011
1:00 pm
and, really, after the crct in the spring, many teachers just stop doing anything. Except my son’s teacher at the end of last year. He was amazing! he was teaching how teaching should be done the whole year! using experiential learning. the kids had fun AND they were learning. But the teachers are not allowed to do that during the year because goodness knows, learning should be boring and terrible and the kids should hate being in school. Right?
Allow the teachers to teach. Get most of the administrators OUT.
Also, Lisa: You are correct. I grew up in a small town, with two high schools. But there were several different ways one could get a degree. There was a small learning environment inside the school, and many kids ‘joined’ that – they could sort of help to design their own curriculum.
But we also had an ‘alternative’ high school, where kids who really couldn’t stand the pressure of the ‘big’ high school went. You actually still got a diploma from the ‘regular’ high school, which indicated you were college ready, but those kids completely and totally designed their own curriculum, there were maybe 30 kids in the whole school, and the kids went on to many different colleges (including harvard).
There was also vocational, where the school system partnered with others to ensure the kids could get what they needed/wanted. (we also had car mechanics as well as other classes like that in the high school).
You can’t have one curriculum and then think it’s for everyone. Our ideas of that must change. If you don’t like the local school, and the ONE way they do things, you are out of luck.
Which is why the magnet program in the city of atlanta was fantastic and I have no idea why they changed it (from what I hear, it was working really well. Maybe that was it- we can’t have any wins for the kids).
Ponder
December 26th, 2011
1:10 pm
Pardon my not tracking this, but what has happened, if anything, to (2) Beverly Hall and others in “high” positions, and (2) the teachers who were responsible and/or implicated for cheating?
Ponder
December 26th, 2011
1:11 pm
Sorry, a typo — should be (1) Beverly Hall….
Lisa B.
December 26th, 2011
1:17 pm
Part of the problem is that lawmakers promised parents that all students would graduate high school on grade level, ready for college. When that didn’t happen, news media, movie producers, billionaire computer moguls, and the public blamed the teachers. Students are no longer held accountable.
That said, I still do not condone the cheating.
atlmom
December 26th, 2011
1:17 pm
ponder: nothing. and nothing probably will happen. seriously APS is obligated to pay all her attorney’s fees, so probably nothing technically will happen. Technically at this point she doesn’t have a job, but realistically someone will hire her to do something, I would suppose.
Nothing happens to these people…so you are correct…why not play the system for all it’s worth? I mean, other than that your rep will suffer. Many people don’t seem to care about that, though.
Lisa B.
December 26th, 2011
1:20 pm
Ponder, from what I’ve read, the few administrators who have had hearings with the Professional Standards Commission had their teaching certificates permently revoked. The teachers who have had hearings lost their certificates for a year. I would expect that caused them each to lose their jobs, since they are no longer certified. I don’t think many hearings have been held. This is going to take awhile. In Dougherty County, the teachers and adminstrators involved were mostly still at work as of the Christmas Break.
Mahopinion
December 26th, 2011
1:24 pm
Remember, these teachers and administrators who did the cheating are the same ones who wring their hands and complain about the abysmal lack of ethics on the part of the students and their parents.
I wonder if the can spell “hypocrisy” without having to look at someone else’s paper…
Mahopinion
December 26th, 2011
1:28 pm
One other point. Why did these teachers and administrators cheat? It had nothing to do with helping the kids and everything to do with covering up the fact that their methods of educating our children are FAILING.
Felicity
December 26th, 2011
1:32 pm
I CARE. As a parent of 2 students living on the south side, I noticed the inferior education my first child was receiving right away. It’s very disheartening when the admin isn’t responsive. I like NCLB, as it puts a spot-light on where the education problems are. We were able to escape through transfers for lower grades and magnet high school. The higher performing schools don’t over-stress the test, which I’ve always refused to have my kids study for. But it isn’t fair that inferior employess(Cobb had a campaign they named save the 60, who couldn’t pass the praxis) are allowed to keep these jobs and the school year ends and onlt the student is harmed.
Beverly Fraud
December 26th, 2011
1:33 pm
Since Ralph initially called for Beverly Hall’s immediate termination from APS, entirely too much of the feedback he heard from people was over the outcomes for the implicated adults.
And let us NOT forget in a sea of apologists, (Concerned Black Clergy, Andrew Young, Shirley Frankiln, members of the Chamber of Commerce, selected staff at the AJC, Arne Duncan etc.) Ralph Long virtually ALONE had the integrity to do the right thing.
I can JUST imagine (but FULLY understand if he or his wife don’t comment publicly on it) what some of the above mentioned names might have done, for the “good of the community” (read: IMAGE) to put pressure on Rep. Long to not make his stand.
atlmom
December 26th, 2011
1:47 pm
ralph long is awesome. enough said (this is not the only time he has stuck his neck out and been correct).
Bro
December 26th, 2011
1:53 pm
If you want to find out what kind of a job a teacher has done, then spot check their students using an unbias judge. A test such as the one given only serves to show that a student has not been taught. When a student fails the math, science or english graduation test the teacher’s or the ones that should be punished not the student. It is their failure for letting the uneducated get that far in the system. The failure here is not the student, but the system. Lool at the Dougherty County school system. What schools were involved in the cheating, what was the ethnic group involved, and what has been the education level of students that failed to graduate after leaving these schools. The system here is the true failure. There are way to many overpaid admin personnel in this system and all the others. Way too many so called educated rejects teaching in the system. A lot of the colleges that these educators graduated from need to be investigated for what they are-diploma factories. If you do not provide proper education of teachers then you get what you pay for-not much.
carlosgvv
December 26th, 2011
1:56 pm
Ponder
I would guess that little or nothing has or will happen to them. Those is charge are counting on the public’s short attention span and, unfortunately, they probably won’t be disapointed.
Lisa B.
December 26th, 2011
2:00 pm
Bro, I agree with you that the Dougherty County school system has failed many students entrusted to its care. When something does not work, it is insane to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different outcome. There are some good teachers in DCSS. Unfortunately, most folks around here seem to think all the teachers cheated, but only a few got caught. Even the newspaper reported that many more teachers were suspected, but there was not enough evidence to indict them.
Tamara Cotman
December 26th, 2011
2:01 pm
You want to know what’s happening with us? I’m sittin’ on the beach with Bev in Jamaica sippin’ some Pina Coladas. Thanks, suckers!
Laurie
December 26th, 2011
2:50 pm
atlmom wrote: “Putting kids together just because they are the same age is stupid.”
So true.
Sir Ken Robinson has argued that one harmful part of “production line teaching” is that we nonsensically “group students by date of manufacture.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U
He gets a laugh for that, but the thing is, it’s really true.
Wise Man
December 26th, 2011
2:52 pm
instead of getting educated, the kids have learned from those who propagated the scandal is that:
they (kids) can get what they want out of life by cheating… so there will be no need to learn
wise man say: you can’t teach what you don’t know and can’t lead where you won’t go
Pb
December 26th, 2011
2:53 pm
I’m not a teacher – but how can so many of you assume that these children did not get an education because the teacher cheated? The teacher may have taught as best as she/he could and resorted to cheating to make sure they reached the administration’s goals.
d
December 26th, 2011
3:04 pm
@Bro…. I teach at the high school level. There is little I can do to prepare a student for a high-school level test if they are years behind academically when they get to me. That being said, there is also little I can do if there is not sufficient motivation for the students themselves to pass. Frankly, although retention in and of itself is a problem, placing students in grades that they are unprepared for is another problem. I will say no test is really a good indicator, but people are too lazy to use and evaluate authentic assessments to see if students are really ready.
D
December 26th, 2011
3:09 pm
The kids that benefited from the cheating were for the most part poor, minority students. The kids that get socially promoted are for the most part poor, minority students. The kids that benefit from federally funded breakfast and lunch programs are for the most part poor, minority students. Throw in Title 1 and myriad more programs and we end up here. All these resources thrown at them for the better part of a half century or more and still very little progress academically, relatively speaking. Why all the fuss? It’s not like minorities are getting special treatment in college admissions as well. Oh, wait…. I’m not minority bashing here, but lets put all the cards on the table and speak honestly about what all this is really about. The govt. has been trying one social experiment after another in the public schools and none of them have worked or even made a dent in the real problem. It’s easier to hold teachers accountable for the failings of others because we’re a sitting duck. They won’t hold the students responsible and they can hold the parents responsible, so that leaves teachers holding the bag. Oh well. Guess I’ll crawl back in my hole now and continue to make a difference while the”grown ups” try to decide what’s best.
D
December 26th, 2011
3:10 pm
Meant to say CAN’T hold the parents responsible.
Beverly Fraud
December 26th, 2011
3:19 pm
“It’s easier to hold teachers accountable for the failings of others because we’re a sitting duck. They won’t hold the students responsible and they can hold the parents responsible, so that leaves teachers holding the bag.”
Yet can you get a SINGLE Republican leader (you know, the “personal responsibility” crowd) to say that? And can you get a SINGLE Democratic leader who will call the Republicans on their silence?
bootney farnsworth
December 26th, 2011
3:22 pm
@ Beverly
this goes well beyond party politics, and you know that
Grob Hahn
December 26th, 2011
3:24 pm
The greatest portion of students targeted by all of this cheating are black. Cheating black children out of their education is absolute racism. This is being overlooked simply because the people who are doing the cheating are also black. If the black community isn’t willing to raise hell over this, how is anyone else expected to care? Any non-black people who do care will be called racists the moment they recognize the facts of these cases.
Grobbbbbbbbbbbbb
Erica Long
December 26th, 2011
3:25 pm
@Beverly Fraud, Andy Young was the one who said that “no one with any common sense wanted to see Beverly Hall kicked out of office.” LOL. I’m looking forward to the day when he’s no longer called on to speak for “the community.”
@atlmom, thank you.
I think that some of the reluctance to accept the facts that were presented about Hall and APS was based on traditional Black leadership having their pride hurt by what happened. We know how important image is and Hall was a master PR person if nothing else. Fortunately, Ralph is a master politician and knows his community. Keep in mind that the only negative comments he heard were from the type of folks you named, not from teachers, retired teachers or parents in the school system.
In my opinion, too many of our so-called leaders were overly concerned about WHO broke the story. To them, the entire tragedy was about a white media and Republican, white elected officials “picking on” this Black female Administrator. For them, Beverly Hall and the “Atlanta Way” were the victims, not the children.
Where the Concerned Black Clergy and traditional Black leadership should come in is encouraging and guiding our parents towards being their children’s first teachers. Parent participation is abysmal. Involved parents would have seen through Beverly Hall’s smoke and mirrors.
Beverly Fraud
December 26th, 2011
3:43 pm
“If the black community isn’t willing to raise hell over this, how is anyone else expected to care?”
This makes Ralph Long’s actions all the more impressive, as I have NO doubt (disclaimer: no “inside knowledge” just no doubt lol) that the Shirley Franklins and Andrew Youngs of Atlanta tried to dissuade him from taking the stand that NEEDED to be taken.
And no, don’t work for him, don’t know him personally!
Concerned Educator ATL
December 26th, 2011
3:50 pm
African American children have suffered inordinately because of so called testing reforms and effective teacher programs. And the reason it continues is because their parent(s), guardian(s), and/or other significant family members allow it. Children from families who care about education and who nurture their children fare better in school. They don’t have to spend half of their young lives preparing for tests.
School is a farce for half of the Black teenage population. On any given day, go to any high school in Atlanta and watch the number of children who discuss politics, who wonder about the economy’s effect on their future career choices, who actually know the name of a constellation or the names of the trees and flowers around them. School no longer teaches an appreciation of human values for African American children. Instead, we set the children up to fail in a test oriented society that is addicted to electronic gadgets disguised as necessities for life..
We will reap what we sow. Can you believe that there are high schools in the city that no longer have a chorus class for students? Is singing human? APS has a Saturday school set up to help Middle School children affected by the CRCT. Why are they being forced to give up their Saturdays.? Expose them to the arts. Have them write musicals and build set designs. This will increase their ability to think, create and solve problems. Let them learn to play an instrument and sight read. Then show them how to grow food in a garden and sell their produce for cash. Allow them to clean up their neighborhoods with adult supervision and learn to appreciate a cleaner place. Have them design better billboards that enhance community spirit and spend an hour of that Saturday learning about moral values and why it is not fine to have babies when you are 12, 13, 14, 15,16, and 17 years of age.
Have the police come out everyday and make sure that no drugs are being sold in their communities and that no gang activity is there. Oops, I forgot, this might mean making their baby mama and baby daddy accountable for their whereabouts at all time. It might even make them accountable for insuring that they learn at home as well as at school.
When the Black child starts school, they are as eager to learn as any child on earth. Loving and supportive teachers are an absolute necessity for them throughout elementary and Middle school. This is when they are neediest. Their parents must be held accountable also. Think about it, why doesn’t anyone want to go to school on the southside of Atlanta from the northside? duh!
It’s a perception thing. People think that children from poor backgrounds have poorer family values and no desire to go to Harvard or Yale when they grow up. They see the drooping pants, weave down to their ankles and cell phones stuck on their faces as symptomatic of what’s wrong with America.
Close the Beauty Supply stores, nail shops, liquor stores. $200 a pair shoe outlets and ban some of the reality crap from television and you may begin to see a change.. Stop letting thugs dictate human values to young children. There is a spirituality about humanity that I believe is being neglected. You have to want something badly to get it. Who is teaching our children to want an education? Who is teaching our children to value an education? What kind of education are we selling here? Maybe that is the true question. And until we can answer that, our children of all races will continue to suffer in some way, shape or form. We have to have the highest standards in America and our educational system and values should not be dictated by other countries.
Every African American child in CRCT scandaled systems in Georgia is being stignmatized by the cheating mess. Afterall, how many white schools were implicated? And, why are we still thinking in Black and White?
Maxine
December 26th, 2011
3:54 pm
Apparently the people involved with the cheating have an incentive to cheat, and it does not involve helping the students. Yes, the schools that have been caught cheating are majority black, but that is not to say that other schools have done the same things. They just have not been caught. However, I do applaud those schools that have taken steps to help the students by offering classes after school and on Saturday. It just hurts that it took a scandal for them to initiate it.
Sadkay
December 26th, 2011
3:57 pm
Whoopie Doo! Why so much crying about teachers cheating on a test. Everyone of you that have gone to school have known that cheating on test has been going on since the 60’s. So, why now is everyone yelling. Then, the kids hasn’t really been cheated by the teacher. They were first cheated by their parents. The ones who knew they couldn’t read and the ones that know never looked at their child progress report from one six weeks to the next has cheated their child far more than the teacher. Then, we have the school systems that promotes kids anyway that fails the test twice. So, is that cheating because the child is still the one lost. What’s the difference in a system or schools that social promotes kids than a teacher giving them answers on a test? They both are wrong so Georgia entire Education System cheats and misguide students and parents every year. Teachers has know say in whether kids go on to the next grade or not. Then report cards are a joke. Teachers in Dekalb has to give grades every six weeks when kids fail and doesn’t do their work. The teachers has to give them a C if they can’t get them to take a deficiency home and have. Signed by their parent. If I was a student I wouldn’t take it home and bring it back knowing I can get a C without doing any work in Elementary School. So, again the entire system is cheating and destroying kids. So, what is the answer?
Sharon Pitts must Go
December 26th, 2011
4:02 pm
@Ponder…Former COS Sharon Pitts is now General Council for Errol Davis…go figure!!!
carlosgvv
December 26th, 2011
4:08 pm
Common sense will tell you we need an educated electorate to keep and maintain a strong, stable democracy. Election results from the last 10 years indicate a general dumbing down of the electorate. We can only wonder how much school cheating in the past has actually been happening.
Beverly Fraud
December 26th, 2011
4:10 pm
“They were first cheated by their parents”
Yes. How as a parent, do you NOT know your 5th grader doesn’t know how to read? You MIGHT not know if your child has never heard of the Articles of Confederation. You MIGHT not know if they know a parallel circuit from a series circuit. You MIGHT not know what they had for lunch on a field trip to the zoo.
But how do you NOT know YOUR child doesn’t know how to read?
Big Papi
December 26th, 2011
4:27 pm
Its Simple: If you want to raise test scores then cut the illegitimate birth rate. Dumb, unengaged parents who were poor students are usually going to spit out dumb kids. The teachers have been under undue pressure to produce educational “hail Marys” that aren’t possible.
atlmom
December 26th, 2011
4:28 pm
Truly Ms. Fraud.
It is definitely a crying shame for these children what has happened to them. They are the innocents and they are the ones who are completely affected. Why aren’t these parents suing the school system (oh, wait, they know that the school system has no money). Why aren’t they crying to high heaven? Why aren’t they allowed to send their kids to another school? Is it really that NONE of those parents care at all about their kids? So so sad.
You’re welcome Erica. What you say is so true.
in any event, the govt running schools enables the govt to ensure a stupid electorate – and that the parents (many of them, and no, not just poor ones – parents across the socioeconomic spectrum, believe me!) – think they just send their kids off to school, and their job is done. They are finished with what they need to do. It is a terrible way to think, but it’s what the govt has done to us – hey – ‘we’ll take care of you! don’t worry about it!’ – in that way, kids don’t even learn that we live in a republic *not* a democracy, and they certainly don’t learn about the constitution and what rights they do and do not have.
It’s the perfect thing. If the politicians just keep us stupid, hey, they get re-elected. I know, it’s not really true, our govt doesn’t quite have it together to create such a conspiracy (they can’t get much right…so…) – but in the end, it’s worked out well for the politicians, huh? Keep us stupid, they keep their jobs.
Kind of like what’s happening in APS with the redistricting right now. I mean – it’s the system that is totally broken. But in the end, now we have neighbors screaming at neighbors, just pointing to each other, fighting amongst themselves….and the people to blame – the bd of ed and really, in the end, just the way the system is set up – that gets nothing. So it works well for the politicians, why should they change anything?
atlmom
December 26th, 2011
4:32 pm
and, really, my grandmother came to this country when she was about 4. She went to school – and didn’t speak english when she got there. Her parents never did learn english. My grandmother started working when she was 8 after school.
Somehow – somehow, she raised two daughters (her husband died when the girls were young) – and never took a penny from the govt for welfare (this was back when they would try to get you to take it, someone came to her house to ’sell’ her on it, she told them to leave, she was never taking charity) – and she has 5 grandkids who all graduated from college (two of whom has graduate degrees).
It isn’t poverty that keeps people ‘down.’ It’s one’s values. My great great grandparents had values of coming here of getting educations of family togetherness, etc, etc. Those are the values that have lasted thru the family, all my grandmother’s grandkids got married before having kids, have houses, are expecting their kids to go to college, etc. It’s not rocket science. There are many communities where education isn’t valued. And where that is happening, people stay poor.
Concerned Educator ATL
December 26th, 2011
5:31 pm
As we speak of values…is a little cheating fine? Does it have to be blatant? Can it be victimless? No, the child always loses. But, it didn’t involve erasing answers. We just cut out everything that was irrelevant and just kept drilling them until they knew every possible question scenario for the test and the resulting answer. That way, they wouldn’t even have to think. What kind of education are we selling here?
ScienceTeacher671
December 26th, 2011
6:18 pm
The BIGGEST cheating scandal in the state hasn’t received any headlines yet, and that’s the one perpetrated by the GaDOE, in which students who are 2, 3, and 4 years below grade level are scored “proficient” on the CRCT and passed to the next grade.
The 2nd biggest cheating scandal was perpetrated by the Ga General Assembly, and allows students who can’t even pass the sub-minimal bar of the CRCT to be “committee promoted” so that they can get passed up to another grade they aren’t prepared to master and get even farther behind. That was has gotten a little bit of publicity.
This final one is a combination of the other two. When administrators and teachers cheat on the CRCT, parents and students are given a false picture of the student’s abilities, as in the first cheating scandal, and they are sent to a grade for which they are not prepared, as in the 2nd.
The only difference is that the first two methods are legal.
Mr. P
December 26th, 2011
6:27 pm
Teach to the test, teach to the test, and teach to the test…The 1st 3 rules of teaching in America! Not everyone excells at test taking, so what wrong with an erasure here and there?
atlmom
December 26th, 2011
8:01 pm
and in the end, because the kids learn to the test, they aren’t learning about anything they need to know. they’re not learning critical thinking skills, logic, etc, things you can’t easily test for. Eh, what does it matter, right?
catlady
December 26th, 2011
8:16 pm
Amen, SciTch, amen.
I am never invited to the “committee meetings” because most of the time I would advocate that the child be held back. So they quit asking me. We have even had parents DEMAND that their child be retained, and the administration has fought it. Really, if your child is already overplaced by two grade levels, WHY would you want them to be placed so that they are THREE years behind? Do you really think that child will graduate from high school (the usual arguement for not retaining is that the child will eventually drop out–guess what they do when they are in over their heads?! They make babies or get involved in crime or drugs, or disrupt their classrooms for years, and THEN they drop out!)?
ScienceTeacher671
December 26th, 2011
9:00 pm
catlady, exactly! Now they are considered “dropouts” if they take more than 4 years to complete high school. Guess what? Almost 100% of those who take more than 4 years to complete high school – or never finish at all – were committee promoted without the skills to do high school level work!
Dr. Monica Henson
December 26th, 2011
9:06 pm
Jennifer Falk’s post about Linda Zechmann rings so true, just like Linda’s statements ring. I have attended many meetings of the SBE Charter School Committee, which Linda used to chair. She has the courage and conviction to stand up, even if she is in the minority, and dissent when she believes it is in the best interest of children. We need more Linda Zechmanns in policymaking positions.
ANGELA
December 26th, 2011
9:09 pm
@Concerned Educator ATL,
The sad thing is that the lacking value of education begins at a very early age. When parents send their kindergarten children to school with hanging pants, earrings, dyed mohawks, skin tight clothes, braids longer than their legs, and the list goes on. What seems to be more important is the hip hop fashion rather than education.
My daughter and I were talking today that we wish that our students could appreciate classic movies such as Imitation of Life, Gone with the Wind, and many other classic movies. We also, wish that they would read books such as Moby Dick, Alex Haley books, etc. But we know if the movie is not filled with crime, etc. they are not interested and books and reading are very dirty words.
You mentioned their conversations well, that is a whole other topic for challenge. If their conversations does not consist of sex, crime, sports, and the use of unintelligent words there would be no conversation to be had.
Is it anyone out there that can honestly say that a positive change is “a comin?”
atlmom
December 26th, 2011
10:49 pm
change can’t come from outside sources, though. it has to come from inside the community. but when someone like cosby says something he is booed by other african americans.
Enlightened
December 27th, 2011
12:07 am
Because it’s the parents fault (we’re blamed for everything else) or it’s the students fault (for not learning the test). But it will NEVER be the teacher’s or administrator’s fault because they’re just the over-educated victims of dumb parents and students!!
Digger
December 27th, 2011
1:12 am
Why is everyone so worried? Most of these kids will end up in the NBA anyway.
Truth in Moderation
December 27th, 2011
2:09 am
The reason I am not concerned about the CRCT “scandal” is because while American citizens were asleep and the MSM was looking the other way, our traitorous Congress voted to “NDAA” the Constitution! Do you get it? OUR BILLOF RIGHTS HAVE BEEN THROWN IN THE TRASH! ANY American citizen can be arrested and detained indefinitely without trial! There are some brave patriots in Montana. THEY ARE IN THE PROCESS OF RECALLING THEIR SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVE OVER THIS! Nine states have the power to recall Federal officials. Georgia currently is not one of them. But if citizens petition their state representatives, legislation could be passed to do so. Please read about what Montana is doing:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/25/1048711/-Montanans-Launch-Recalls-of-Senators-Who-Approved-NDAA-Military-Detention-Merry-Christmas-US-Senate
“Two time Medal of Honor winner Marine General Smedley Butler once said “There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights.” Time to fight. “
Tonya C.
December 27th, 2011
8:39 am
atlmom:
You hit the nail on the head. The reason so much of this goes back to the family environment and the community is because before these children ever enter school, that is who is instilling values in them. Their parents and the people who surround them are their first teachers. And if the foundation is bad, anything built on it will always be shaky.
Teachers, for the most part, have long accepted their piece of this pie. They have differentiated instruction, gone along with the new cure de jours, become entertainers, and come out of their own pocket when no one else is willing to step up to the plate. They have joined PTA when the parents wouldn’t, adjusted schedules for PT conferences, and offered up additional resources whenever they can.
What now? What more does the public want? The expectation that teachers shoudl be pseudo parents seems to becoming more and more accepted. And people want to know why the best an brightest don’t become teachers? Really?
Bryan in SouthGA
December 27th, 2011
8:57 am
A teacher cheats on the CRCT because the teacher knows the students did not learn.
C Jae of EAV
December 27th, 2011
9:10 am
@Sharon Pitts must Go: It speaks volumes about the situation that considering how central a figure Ms. Pitts was to the APS cheating scandel that she would be re-hired absent a full accounting for the actions she was directly responsible for during her tenture of chief of staff under Dr Hall. How are the citzens of Atlanta expected to take the APS board and its appointed leadership seriously about anything. They fire the teachers, the fire the area supertindants involves but allow the very person directing their actions and accountable for their actions to remain an employee?? I’m confused. Then again I’m not the least bit surprised to here its gone down like that and with VERY LITTLE fanfare !!! This fact should have been front page above the fold the day the made the announcement of such foolishness.
Ray
December 27th, 2011
9:46 am
Wow, it is amazing to read all these comments. I’m a teacher. I love my job and if you talk to most of the parents of my students they would probably say that I’m a really great teacher. Not based upon test scores…but based upon the fact that I love my students and their well being is Job #1 no matter what the Admin. says. So let’s check the score:
Blamed: Teachers, Students, Parents, Admin, Govt., Society.
Let’s throw in some Racism, Prejudice, an Elitist attitudes. Is there anything missing from this stone throwing festival?
We have all the information we need about education. We know what best practices are. We know that kids need a great beginning that includes time before they are even school-age. We know that educated and successful parents lead to educated and successful kids. Why then aren’t these a priority? Really take a minute and ask yourself..why don’t we just do those things instead of all this other crap? Our country has a horrible history based upon one group holding back another for their own gains. Does anyone out there really believe it’s a level playing field? Do you actually believe that we will move forward as long as we separate ourselves? We can play the blame game all day from now until eternity but until we are ready to actually stand together and make a change..it’s just a lot of noise.
Dr NO / Mr Sunshine
December 27th, 2011
10:08 am
Because that would be discriminatory. Thats why people are willing to “let it slide.”
Remember we should address the symptom and NOT the cause.
WATCH AND LEARN.
skipper
December 27th, 2011
10:13 am
Elephant in the room….has anyone looked closely at the elected school-board officials? Many of them could not pour p*ss out of a boot (with heel-inscribed directions.) You have to,, however, be politically correct and elect one of your own. I know we cannot abandon the school system, but until drastic measures are taken nothing is going to change. Voting for your “own” as a board member does not ensure a good education for kids, just as social engineering does not. I am not sure how to break the cycle, but putting folks in charge who have NO BUSINESS there is not helping!
mountain man
December 27th, 2011
10:18 am
What resources would have been available if the teachers did not cheat? Very little. And you cannot make me believe that a little extra tutoring is going to turn around the lives of these hardcore anti-studying students. The reasons the teachers had to cheat was that the STUDENTS and PARENTS were so poor. If the students had actually ATTENDED class and WORKED HARD and DONE THEIR HOMEWORK, the teachers would not have had to cheat. If the administrators had allowed teachers to HOLD BACK students who were not at grade level, maybe they would not have had to cheat. This cheating scandal did not hurt any students who had not already determined they were not going to succeed in school. If they did, they might have looked “too white”.
mountain man
December 27th, 2011
10:21 am
If you really want to solve the cheating scandall, then call it like it is – hold back students who ae not doing work at grade level. And throw those parents in jail that allow their kids to miss 5% of their classes.
Linda
December 27th, 2011
10:33 am
“Children from families who care about education and who nurture their children fare better in school. They don’t have to spend half of their young lives preparing for tests.”
Sadly, it seems children from these families ARE spending more time learning the basics. Have you noticed the proliferation of tutoring businesses in North Fulton? There are many children who have to learn after school because they cannot learn in during the clusterfk that is the school day. And these are the “good” schools! These children do not have learning disabilities, they have average intelligence but our curriculum is so convoluted that they need a traditional place to learn. Why can schools not do this during the day? They should be out playing in the afternoon, NOT learning what they should have during the school day. But yes, at least their parents recognize that they do not know what they should and do seek help. What I do not understand is why they put up with it. I suppose they don’t understand how horrible the curriculum/classroom discipline is. Guess who does? TEACHERS! Listen to them!
mountain man
December 27th, 2011
10:43 am
Everyone here has good, reasonable solutions to the education problem – it is just that the schools won’t implement them! There is too much political pressure to do otherwise. Holding back the kids is a good solution, although it may just delay the inevitable drop-out at 16. If STUDENTS and their PARENTS don’t want to succeed, then you can’t make them. As someone mentioned, Dr. Bill Cosby talked about the need to change education, but nobody wanted to hear. They accused him of being a “whitey”. Bring back summer school and anyone who is not at grade level by the end of summer school gets automatically held back. No exceptions! Do away with social promotion “committees”. Teaching to the test? If the test is for basic skills, than by all means teach to the test! If they learn the basic skills, then they will pass the test.
mountain man
December 27th, 2011
10:50 am
“We know that kids need a great beginning that includes time before they are even school-age. We know that educated and successful parents lead to educated and successful kids. Why then aren’t these a priority? ”
Because government does not have control before school age – that is the PARENT’S job. We are trying to grow educated and successful parents, but the STUDENTS are fighting us every step of the way. “I don’t need no education! Ax anyone. My using the work AX instead of ASK won’t keep me out of a good job (yes, it will). My mother got by just fine with her six kids and welfare check ( I don’t know who the baby daddies were). I goona be just like her! I start when I am 14, I got my first kid. Now we can get more SNAP. Momma’s EITC went up, too.
atlmom
December 27th, 2011
10:55 am
really the problem is the system. let’s say we get some good people on the school board (um, go with me here). What’s to say in 4 or 8 or whatever many years we get people who aren’t good? the system is set up to fail, that’s the problem. and while the teachers and parents and administrators are bickering, the politicians keep saying how they value education.
But the reality is that there is no ultimate accountability, and that people are stuck with what they have. the system is set up to not work. How can it? You have politicians passing laws without any regard for whether it would work or not, then you need more administrators to implement it.
We are all well aware of where the good schools are…i mean, really, why do you think housing prices in certain areas are so high?
skipper
December 27th, 2011
11:00 am
Right-on atlmom. Nobody will tell the truth. I realize past injustices, etc. always being brought up. However, you do not right them by putting incompetant people in charge! The TERRIBLE behavior and upbringing of some of these folks ensures that the future is not too bright! This has to start on the grass roots level. How about, for one, Quintavious qut braggin’ ’bout his outside chillun and be a real dad?
KIM
December 27th, 2011
11:11 am
With all due respect, I think the AJC and Ms. Downey have exhausted this topic. While the importance of the cheating is no less, until there is new “news” I hope the writers will look at other topics.
mountain man
December 27th, 2011
11:25 am
” If the students have not been exposed to the subject material on the test, then they most likely will not pass”
Can’t be exposed to the material if they aren’t there.
catlady
December 27th, 2011
11:30 am
Ms. Downey, let me be frank. The kids who were “cheated for” don’t tend to have parents that vote. They don’t tend to come from homes where parents would go to a school board meeting or make calls to the board members. They tend to come from single parent, uneducated, poor homes where there is a disconnect between work and achievement.
These are homes where there is little accountability, either of the parent or the child. The parents don’t hold themselves or their children or their school board or their government accountable for poor outcomes. So, it is convenient to ignore them, to cheat for them as though they are mindless pawns.
Until there is accountability from the bottom up, with each and every participant held to answer or suffer the consequences, someone will believe cheating is okay.
Here is a car analogy. It takes most of the parts of a car to make it work correctly. You can’t just focus on the culpability of the steering (teachers). There has to be emphasis on the ignition (parents), the accelerator (child), the brakes (school administraton), the tires (legislators and leaders). Even having a safe road (federal policy) is important to the smooth running of the car, and its ability to get where it is going. Absent any part, and you have a pile of junk beside the road, ready to be hauled off, possibly with others hurt in its wake (other kids in the class, taxpayers).
It is convenient to “cheat for” those kinds of kids, because that is easier to do than to hold the rest of the pieces responsible for their parts. Parents have to be held responsible, and they in turn have to hold the government responsible for providing the opportunities for the children. Right now neither is taking place among the kids who were cheated for. Legislators know that; they have no reason to worry about their jobs because “those people” don’t vote or show up to clearly explain their grievances on the 6 o’clock news, so they can continue to cut funding for public education with impunity.
Harp
December 27th, 2011
11:35 am
Education should begin at home, but for some students the only place that receive any kind of education is school. Even kids from the most dysfunctional background have a desire to learn. School provides a safe haven for some of them. All it takes is one person to encourage them to want to succeed.
mountain man
December 27th, 2011
11:39 am
“Even kids from the most dysfunctional background have a desire to learn. School provides a safe haven for some of them.”
You ARE kidding, right? Maybe in first grade. After that their peers make sure they do not like school. What part of reality do you live in?
mountain man
December 27th, 2011
11:42 am
A person who takes an inner-city child, inspires a love of learning, navigates them away from bad influences, guides them to graduate from high school and on to college – that is not a teacher, that is a miracle worker.
nikole
December 27th, 2011
11:43 am
I am more concerned wwith the fact that I have to go through 12 weeks of data for a student I received the last week of first semester in order to prove he is struggling in first grade. His previous teacher had concerns, but it starts all over with me. That means 2 professionals believe he should be retained, but the chances of that happening are slim. These are the students that make it to 3rd grade without being helped, and then you tell the third grade teachet she is not a good teacher if he does nit pass the test.
Harp
December 27th, 2011
11:56 am
@ mountain man – No, I am not kidding. I take it that you have not been around kids from less than desirable backgrounds? I have. Some, not all, are looking for someone to show that they care, believe in them, and hold them accountable for their actions no matter what grade they are in.
bootney farnsworth
December 27th, 2011
12:34 pm
the more I think about it, the more convinced I am its just basic apathy. institutionally we’ve been doing such a bad job for so long people no longer care what we do
provided the football team is competitive
To bootney farnsworth from Good Mother
December 27th, 2011
1:40 pm
Bootney you asked “where’s the outrage? simple.
people no longer care.”
Wrong.
I AM OUTRAGED AND I SURE DO CARE!!!
Tonya C.
December 27th, 2011
1:43 pm
nootney farnsworth:
Yes, yes it is. No other word does the situation as much justice as that. Simple and to the point. The ones that do care will do what is needed for their children on their own and pray for the others. Tell me I’m wrong.
Digger
December 27th, 2011
2:28 pm
A teacher cheats because some students can not or will not learn.
Mahopinion
December 27th, 2011
2:53 pm
A teacher cheats be ause their paycheck depends on it.
atlmom
December 27th, 2011
3:22 pm
bootney: realistically, we have been selling to people for years (okay, many decades) that the govt is there to ‘take care’ of them. So why does it surprise ANYONE that parents want to drop their kids off at the door of the school and do nothing to ensure the kid is getting a good education?
Make no mistake, this happens everywhere, no matter what the socioeconomic background. It is not surprising at all. And, well, we’ve seen it doesn’t work. we’ve seen the govt model is failing back and forth, up and down and every which way.
and it seems utterly insurmountable, honestly. I see the system and I just want to cry.
freelunch
December 27th, 2011
5:21 pm
It is a shame when teachers feel they have to cheat to please corrupt principals and board members who wrongfully enrolled their children in the free lunch program. Dougherty school system is full of people who feel entitled to anything they can get for nothing.
To Digger Good Mother
December 28th, 2011
10:38 am
You say “A teacher cheats because some students can not or will not learn.”
Hogwash.
A teacher cheats because he or she has no integrity and no honesty and has the morals of an alley cat.
Digger
December 28th, 2011
3:34 pm
What would you know about honesty?
Digger
December 28th, 2011
3:44 pm
And stop insulting alley cats.
Ole Guy
December 28th, 2011
4:07 pm
This question goes in line with the predominant attitudes that kids are “made of glass”, and must be treated with the utmost in delicacy. While it is true that the cheating…promarily intended for monetary gain at the “leadership” levels, as well as an attempt to put a “smiley face” on an otherwise less-than steller educational system…hurts all concerned, kids are (presumably) resiliant and have the capacity to “bounce back” from this sort of thing…IF THEY ARE ALLOWED TO.
As with the “at risk” label, kids will perform poorly ONLY if they receive the message that they are expected to/allowed to/given “considerations” of all sorts if and when they do.
Only if…that’s ONLY if schools AND parents follow MY adhearance to standards; to my insistance that kids meet established standards of both deportment and academic performance, can kids rise above the wake of recent cheating scandals. If the education community insists on perpetuating unearned accolades, passing-to-outstanding grades in the face of mediocrity, and the insistance of labeling kids “at risk”, for no other reason than the fact that they were born into less-than-ideal circumstances…sure, kids will be adversley impacted by the scandal…only if WE, and the kids, allow and accept it.
To Ole Guy from Good Mother
December 28th, 2011
7:27 pm
You’re blaming the victimes, Ole Guy. The kids are innocent in all of this. It is the adults who have failed and lied and cheated. Please put the responsibility and accountability where it belongs, at the hands, the feet and the minds and hearts of those adults who cheated, lied and stole.
To Concerned Educator from Good Mother
December 28th, 2011
7:37 pm
CE laments :”We will reap what we sow. Can you believe that there are high schools in the city that no longer have a chorus class for students? Is singing human?”
I never ever had a chorus class, CE. I never had an art class either. All we had was football and some semblance of academic classes.
We don’t need chorus and art to succeed. I am a proponent of art for art’s sake. I think music heals and enriches the soul but it isn’t a necessity for learning.
What is a necessity is a dedicated teacher, one who is educated and honest. One doesn’t even need a good parent in order to learn. School is a safe haven for many. It certainly was for me. I had two lousy, disengaged, cruel parents who didn’t give a rip about me but I had a few caring teachers that made all the difference in my life. I graduated high school, earned an academic scholarship to college and earned my degree. I am now a productive, educated tax-payer and am raising my children to be the same.
Some argue school shouldn’t be in the business of running a society. I disagree. Without the few caring individuals called teachers, I would have been a goner.
Children are born wanting to learn and wanting to help and wanting to succeed. It’s in our nature. To do otherwise is a learned behavior we inherit from adults.
W need good schools. We need to hire honest and caring individuals to work with them. Everything else can be learned and taught (both for teachers and students.)
Ole Guy
December 29th, 2011
3:44 pm
Right on, good Mom! Parents hold full and complete accountability for their kids’ behavior. However, at some point in their young lives, these very same kids have to/MUST start assuming a share of that accountability; at some point…generally around the time kids become part of a society outside the home (SCHOOL), they need to start realizing that they share a degree of responsibility toward that “society”. That means appropriate deportment, and, for their own sake, a gradual realization that school work…as seemingly distasteful as it may seem to be…demands a degree of time and application.
Exactly at what point in time, Mom, would you suggest that these “kids”, who, as young adults, stop blaming THEIR folks, and start assuming command of their own destinys? The adult world gushes over the fact that their young ones are able to master such technological mysteries as programing VCRs and the like, yet the very same adults will deny that their kids must start assuming responsibilities outside showing up at the dinner table on time. Quite frankly, Mom, I do not think the adult world even WANTS their kids to grow up and start facing the travails of life. You seem to feel that kids…of ALL ages…must remain completely innocent of every-and-all ills which this life imposes upon them.
I’ve expressed these thought before, and they hold true to this very moment: parents/adults, LIKE YOU, PROF, and MANY MANY MORE, will be responsible for rearing generations completely and uterly incapable of assuming adult responsibilities. You, AND Prof, AND many many more good people out there shold be ashamed of your fear and trepidation. Perhaps you, yourselves, lack a degree of perspective; of self-assuredness. By allowing this cloud of self-doubt to influence your outlook on those future gens’ development, you cheat, not only yourselves and your offspring but also the direction of this Great Country. Perhaps many of YOUR gen have not been tested; have not felt the fires of life at it’s very worse; consequently, your perspectives on life tend to take on an “Alice In Wonderland” persona. When life’s “Big Bad Wolf” enters your kids’ domains (as it surely will), it will always be someone elses problem and, consequently, someone elses’ responsibility to address and overcome.
Congratulations: Mom, Prof, and many many more out there who seem to disapprove of even considering a departure from educational dogma which (painfully) obviously is a dismal failure. Incidentially, Prof, I DO NOT livein Florida. I spend a lotoftime their, both on business and “shux n’ grins”. I reside in the ATL area, HAVE spent considerable time within Georgia education, and, therefore, am fully aware of the “warts and all” within Ga ed; my remarks, therefore, come from a position of factual knowledge, as well as plain and simple truth.
Observer
December 29th, 2011
4:07 pm
@ Ole Guy. What on earth do you mean exactly by this cloud of vague generalities? What specifically are you proposing should be done about the problems of:
*social promotion when the student is several grade-levels behind?
*disruptive students in the classroom that the administration will not remove?
*dismissal of teachers who refuse to cheat?
Remember now, social promotion is allowed BY LAW; physical punishment of students is prohibited BY LAW; this is by BY LAW a “right to work” state (no unions permitted to represent teachers’ rights).
“Congratulations: Mom, Prof, and many many more out there who seem to disapprove of even considering a departure from educational dogma which (painfully) obviously is a dismal failure.” Words, words, words. High falutin words.
To Ole Guy from Good Mother
December 29th, 2011
4:18 pm
Ole Guy, you write “Perhaps many of YOUR gen have not been tested; have not felt the fires of life at it’s very worse; consequently, your perspectives on life tend to take on an “Alice In Wonderland” persona. When life’s “Big Bad Wolf” enters your kids’ domains (as it surely will), it will always be someone elses problem and, consequently, someone elses’ responsibility to address and overcome.”
I’ve overcome a great deal and I’m also a veteran. I grew up with hard knocks and two parents that beat the hell out of me. Your constant “beat them into submission” mantra doesn’t bode well with me because I’ve been there and done that and it doesn’t help.
I’m also tough. After college I enlisted in the military, as an enlisted soldier and am a veteran of the Gulf War. (The first one.).
So your assumptions that I’m some candy-ass, lightweight is wrong. I have succeeded and I will teach my children to succeed the right way, through discipline, not beatings and through love, not neglect.
You’ve asked what age are children able to be responsible for their own actions? Well, of course it depends on the matter at hand. I expect them to do their own homework when they are able to read fluently and can understand the directions the teacher gives them. I will, as a good mother, of course, provide them with a consistent homework time ritual. For example, after school at X o’clock, their butts are at the kitchen table doing homework while I am cooking dinner, handy and available for any questions.
When homework is complete and accurate and teeth are brushed and bodies are bathed and chores are done, yes, you can watch a 30 minute TV program and so on.
Children want and need boundaries. We adults are responsible for creating and enforcing those boundaries and most of them are learned in the eight hours a day they are at school. It’s my job to ensure they get to school on time and prepared. Once they enter those doors and I wave goodbye and am off to work earning tax dollars to pay the teacher, I expect the school to do their job.
Ole Guy
December 29th, 2011
4:58 pm
Now we’re hiding behind the law…”Gee, I’d go 75 to 80 mph but, alas, that would be “agin’de law”…”Shux, ah caint’ vote…oh, ah can? You mean ta tell me de law was changed? Ah didn’t know dat! Well, glory be, ah spose de law, when PEOPLE REALLY CARE, can be changed. Opps, ah don’t wanna be quesed’ o issuing (what did you call it, Observer) high falluten words. I spose it’s a lot easier, an safer, to simply watch the edication house burn to the ground. If ah jus comment n’ complain, ah’ll prolly feel a lot better. Ma kids? Their kids, an THEIR kids…oh well! Les jus not have no ha falutin words.
Ole Guy
December 29th, 2011
5:37 pm
Let’s get one more thing straight, folks…bumping up on 66, I remain highly competitive. Both as a “yout” and as an adult, I received GOOD EDUCATIONS, not necessarily because I wanted it, but because the adults in my life were tough, unyielding in their demands, and “not always nice in their approach to dealing with a knucklehead”. Because these adults were not always “nice” in their demeanors, I learned, early on, to attack life’s challenges; when those challenges knocked me on my six, I got up, shook my head, and continued the march. Were there periods of self-doubt, fear and trepidation? YOU BET THERE WAS!
Now before I upset Observer with “vague generalities and high faluten words”, I will leave with but one…suggestion: STOP PISSING AROUND WITH THESE KIDS. The difficultie which they face may be the work of others, and completely out of their realm of responsibilities…BUT…it is they, and THEY ALONE, who have to get on the stick and deal with these issues…NOT the Easter Bunny, Santa, or any of a number of people we popularly hold as responsible. STOP rubbing the fannys of these kids.
If that’s too general and high faluten…GO TO HECK!
Observer
December 31st, 2011
2:25 pm
@ Ole Guy, Dec. 29, 3:44 pm: “I HAVE spent considerable time within Georgia education, and, therefore, am fully aware of the “warts and all” within Ga. ed; my remarks, therefore, come from a position of factual knowledge.”
And on the earlier “Cyberbaiting” blog thread, you also claimed considerable teaching experience.
I guess you’ve forgotten that on the earlier Aug. 11 blog, “What does it mean to be a proficient 8th grader?” you wrote, on Aug. 13, 3:54 pm: “…my public education experience is somewhat limited. As a career switch, following a Military career, I entered the field with certain expectations (of discipline and focus) gleaned from my flying days. I suspected that there would be a certain amount of “re-evaluation”, on my part, as to my expectations. However, at an early point in my soujourn, I realized that my personal “chemistry” and that of the educational community would not be compatible.”
An armchair general.