Should the FAMU president go in wake of hazing death?
In a family photo, Robert Champion demonstrates the flair that earned him the prestigious drum major role in the FAMU band.
The Florida A&M University president keeps his job, despite a call by the governor last week for his suspension in the wake of the death of a member of the renowned Marching 100 band.
The university’s board of trustees decided today not to take action against FAMU president James Ammons. According to the news story: The university’s board of trustees on Monday rejected a call by Gov. Rick Scott that James Ammons be suspended. “We will stand firm against outside interference, no matter how well intended,” Solomon Badger, the FAMU board chairman, said during a board meeting that was held by conference call.
The parents of Robert Champion, the DeKalb drum major who died of alleged hazing at the hands of fellow band members, are disappointed in the decision.
Experts on hazing said it will not stop without dramatic action by colleges showing that such behaviors will not be tolerated. Certainly, suspending or firing a president is dramatic, but apparently the FAMU board is not yet ready for such a step.
“Everyone that’s involved,” Pam Champion said Monday of those responsible for Robert D. Champion’s death. “All the way from the administrator that knew that this culture existed at the school to the organizations, the band, each individual student … everybody that turned their back.”Robert D. Champion, a 26-year-old drum major for the FAMU Marching 100 band, died on Nov. 19 from hazing during a band trip to Orlando, authorities said. An Orange County medical examiner determined last week that his death was a homicide, while the university’s board of trustees on Monday morning decided not to take action against FAMU president James Ammons – at least until a criminal investigation was complete.
But Robert Champion’s parents, Pam and Robert G. Champion, of Decatur, believe the top is where the problem of hazing begins. “He should’ve had some type of control over the students, the faculty and all the people he put in place to keep those kids safe,” Robert G. Champion said of Ammons. “If he wasn’t on top of what was going on, I feel that appropriate action should be taken.”
“Ultimately, he’s responsible,” Pam Champion said of Ammons. “He’s the head.”
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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103 comments Add your comment
Disgusted.
December 19th, 2011
4:12 pm
Typical. They will work harder to cover his a$$ than they will to root out this vicious and brutal hazing. This school is about as trust worthy as a third world dictatorship.
Ben
December 19th, 2011
4:13 pm
So far it sounds like FAMU wants to whitewash this scandal and sweep it under the table instead of owning up to the fact that they have been too incompetent to keep things under control.
gray dog
December 19th, 2011
4:15 pm
Not until they investigate thoroughly. I get a hint that this might be a Georgia High School problem. If He knew nothing about it, why should he be punished?
Greg
December 19th, 2011
4:23 pm
Form everything I’ve read, hazing in the FAMU band was an open secret for many, many years. A student was hospitalized as a result of a hazing incidents in the weeks leading up to this death and yet the President took little or no action. Clearly, this situation was handled much like the Penn State scandal, cirle the wagons and stop all incoming fire. Rick Scott is correct this guy should have been suspended if not fired out right.
Byron
December 19th, 2011
4:31 pm
Ammons is a great administrator. I am sure if he does leave, North Carolina Central University would welcome him back. He help turn NCCU into the #1 Public HBCU with his leadership and initiatives that increased enrollment and modernization of the campus.
This culture of hazing has probably been there for ions but it appears the students from the ATL area took it to another level. It puzzles me how a Drum Major, the ALPHA DOG of the band, could possibly be the victim of hazing. Something really strange is going on with this ATL crew.
Why
December 19th, 2011
4:40 pm
If this was your job wouldn’t you want to be given a full investigation before your job is taken from you? If he is found guilty, then okay. Let the process work. Maureen, I’m so surprised you have focused some many days on the FAMU story when there is SO much going on locally within our own school systems. Your taking the easy route out. Everyday it seems that one of your diehard bloggers brings up some issue that is not the most “comfortable or easy” topic to be investigated, when will you address those bloggers?
TRUTH
December 19th, 2011
4:46 pm
When will you all get it? This young man was 26 years old. He got on that bus on his own. Face it his played a roll in his own death.
@Gray Dog from Good Mother
December 19th, 2011
4:59 pm
Gray dog says regarding the FAMU president “If He knew nothing about it, why should he be punished?”
Because if he didn’t know about it he ought to have known about it.
This is a typical behavior pattern with those higher ups who do not want to be held accountable.
Beverly Hall, the infamous APS superintendent didn’t want to know about the cheating scandal that she created so she built up a sytem that was meant to protect her. She put the issue down to her assistant’s level so that Beverl couldn’t be implicated in her own scandal she created.
This behavior is very very normal for greedy, unscrupulous persons in high places.
The higher ups in the Sandusky rape scandal at Penn State do the same thing “Huh? I didn’t know about it. Duh, not me either.”
Presidents must create a culture and an environment that seeks out information about hazing. The message must be clear from the President that hazing must be reported and that the President will quickly, with integrity and honesty, immediately rectify wrongs and prevent them from happening in the first place.
The old “I’m at the top and I didn’t know” excuse is lame, tired and completely transparent.
If he didn’t know, it’s because he didn’t WANT to know so that the finger could not be pointed at him.
See no evil. Hear no evil….get fired.
@TRUTH from Good Mother
December 19th, 2011
5:02 pm
Truth lies to us and says “Thiss young man was 26 years old. He got on that bus on his own. Face it his played a roll in his own death.”
He got on a bus therefore he deserved to die.
What terrifies me is that “Truth” is likely someone who will end up on a jury and make obscene conclusions like this one.
For every intelligent person in America, I am begging you, please do not get out of jury duty. When every employed, intelligent educated human being gets out of jury duty, we leave justice in the hands of the imbiciles like “TRUTH.”
Greg
December 19th, 2011
5:13 pm
@ Truth is one of the idiots doing the hazing.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
December 19th, 2011
5:27 pm
FL Governor Rick Scott should have learned a lesson from Gene Talmadge and kept his nose out of a controversy involving a state university.
That said, the FAMU prez, like the PSU prez before him, ought to go.
darattler
December 19th, 2011
5:45 pm
Absolutely NO!! FAMU’s president should not be suspended or terminated. Florida’s Gov. Rick Scott was in clear violation of SACS Rules & Regulations for calling for the suspension of FAMU’s Presiden http://www.famu.edu/OfficeofCommunications/Letter%20to%20Governor%20Rick%20Scott.pdf. One would think that a governor would be privy to the rules & regulations that govern the universities in his state. Rick Scott has decided to use the Robert Champion tragedy to promote a hidden political & racial agenda. This governor should be impeached for being stupid. No other university in the State of Florida has received this much scrutiny and sensational news reporting as a result of a hazing death. We’re all saddened by Robert Champion’s death and hope those responsible will be punished. However, the FAMU Community must fiercely reject Rick Scott and any other organization from applying double standards on their university. Whenever adult students choose to participate in hazing, they risk the chance of being injured or killed or better yet, they risk the chance of injuring or killing somebody else. These adult students chose to participate in hazing, OFF CAMPUS, UNDERGROUND. We cannot hold the president or the university responsible for that type of non-sanctioned behavior. Everybody should keep an open mind and not rush to judgment until the investigation is completed. Comparing FAMU to Penn State is just silly at best.
The hazing investigation is still ongoing.
darattler
December 19th, 2011
5:54 pm
If I can offer any advice to the Champion Family, I would suggest they limit their media interviews until the investigation is completed. I’m not sure who’s advising them, but I don’t believe it’s going to help their case in the long run. That’s just my opinion.
catlady
December 19th, 2011
5:56 pm
Ammons knew about hazing in the band (or he was the most inept head they could have had). He did not see that it got stopped. The young man died. EVERYONE in the chain of command, including the VP of Student Affairs, the band director, and the president, should be fired.
And if the FAMU board does not want state interference, well, the state can withhold its money. To give the school money is interference of the worst kind!
I’m guessing NONE of the supervisory adults will be fired, and the race card will be played.
Understanding Atlanta
December 19th, 2011
6:04 pm
We should wait until the investigation is complete. Ultimately, as a student at FAMU I didn’t have to do what President told me. This isn’t high school. As long as you don’t violate the rules set forth by the Board of Trustees in the Student Code of Conduct there’s nothing that can be done.
Secondly, I’m still trying to understand how the university can control an illegal process for an illegal organization. The school cannot control nor punish students for what happens off-campus. Even if you report that something happens off-campus the school can’t officially do much without an investigation from the law enforcement agency that has jurisdiction where the incident happened. Take the Bria Hunter case, the school can’t open an investigation on off-campus activities without Tallahassee PD having started one themselves and suspecting incidents happened on-campus.
The Champion case happend while on a university-sponsored trip. This gives the school liability. Off-campus activities not as much.
Todd
December 19th, 2011
6:05 pm
Those who are hazed need to report it. it’s an acceptable ritual, just to be a part of group, be it Greek Pledging, Band or College Athletics. The best individuals to bring light on hazing is those who participate to join. Unfortunately the hazed students will NEVER report it because the desire and need to belong is greater that the hazing they receive.
That being said, hazing is not the issue, but abuse is. I had college insructors who hazed: It was said the only way I get my degree is through them, I had to dance to their tune. That was absolutely inappropiate as I was there to be educated not to play up to instructors. That behavior was hazing as well.
I am not sure that any University\College President who know about hazing woudl approve of it…
catlady
December 19th, 2011
6:08 pm
“One would think that a governor would be privy to the rules & regulations that govern the universities in his state.”
Rattler, believe it or not SACS does not make the rules and regulations that govern the universities unless the state ALLOWS it to.
It is really past high time to quit worrying about SACS, and send it packing when IT sticks its nose into state or local education.
Perhaps the parents should sue the trustees individually and personally, in addition to corporately.
And, by the way, Rattler, the incident happened DURING A SCHOOL FUNCTION. The students, no matter their ages, were under the supervision of university personnel. Or not.
barneyfife
December 19th, 2011
6:13 pm
Amen, darattler. I grieve for Mr. & Mrs. Champion. But they should not be speaking publicly so they don’t risk any interests in the criminal and civil proceedings to come.
That being said, I will step out on a limb here. Robert Champion’s horrible, tragic death is part of a huge problem in HBCUs nationally (and many college fraternities, black, white, etc.). Hazing was known to the school AND to the band members for years. Who knows- Champion knew of the culture and participated in it during his tenure at FAMU. Not necessarily by actively participating in the rituals (I don’t know- I wasn’t there), but as a 26-year old veteran and leadership member of the band HE KNEW. He was a participant because he knew and chose to walk the aisle of that bus that night and get beaten. He made that choice. I would never say he deserved it because of course, he didn’t. But he knew nonetheless and chose to participate in it, so while it sounds horrible to say it, he DID play a role in his beating. And I feel awful saying that. He payed the ultimate price for wanting so badly to be a part of something that meant so much to him.
So then the issue becomes how do you radically change a culture that is so ingrained in its very being? Until you do that, Mr. Champion’s death was for nothing, and the abhorrent behavior will continue. My heart go out to his family. But as a 26-year old, he was an adult and part of the organization for some time- he wasn’t ignorant of the band’s practices. He didn’t deserve to die, but come on- nobody forced him to walk that bus aisle. That’s the tragic part. He (and any other member of that band) should NEVER feel compelled to participate in something this stupid just to be a part of that band. It may take a wholesale housecleaning from the top on down to change that culture, sadly.
Mahopinion
December 19th, 2011
6:15 pm
Why is nobody talking about the fact that this young man was a willing participant in the hazing? No student is forced to undergo hazing at the schools’s behest. They participate because of peer pressure to fit in. In effect their own inability to say no or risk seeming “uncool” leads to the very behavior that has these parents now threatening to sue. Perhaps if the parents had done a better job with raising a self assured son, this wouldn’t have happened. Just a thought… But of course, parents would never, ever admit that their darling baby did anything wrong…
darattler
December 19th, 2011
6:25 pm
catlady – The incident DID NOT happen during a school function. The game was over, the band’s performance was over, the bus was back at the hotel and parked. During Robert Champion’s funeral services, Dr. Julian White said that Robert Champion and the other FAMU drum majors rode back to the hotel AFTER THE GAME, in a limosine. The question becomes; How did Robert Champion end up on a parked bus? Hazing is wrong, but I hope you at least have some common sense.
Oh My!!!
December 19th, 2011
6:46 pm
Mahopinon…while the young man knew of the hazing it certainly doesn’t mean we should jump up and say he deserved it. As a rite of “passage” he knew if he did not go through the rituals then he stood a chance of being ostracized. In this case his age had little to do with the situation. On serveral campuses there are black greek letter organizations that have either been suspended or they have been kicked off the yard for their hazing practices. We know it exists on many campuses. Many black greek letter organizations have adopted risk management policies to limit their liability. Obviously these rouge sub groups are not well organized so I doubt they thought that deeply. The question being raised here is does the president deserve to be let go? I would say yes because if I was FAMU and I wanted to limit my exposure it would be the prudent thing to do. For years PennState officials sat on a ticking time bomb for not doing what was right with their socio-path coach sandusky and now his enablers are going to pay for their lack of actions for many years to come. If the president really cared about the school he would step aside and let the litigation move forward. If he’s found clean then he can come back, if not I’m sure there is another fund raising president that wouldn’t mind living and working in Tallahassee.
Oh My!!!
December 19th, 2011
6:55 pm
da Rattler…you are obviously a proud band alum looking at the defensive stance you take. Hazing exists plain and simple and it happened under Ammons watch. He gets paid the big $$ to make sure his subordinates are not putting the school and it’s students in harms way. It doesn’t matter if Champion was 36, 46 or 106. It doesn’t matter if the incident happend on a plane flying over the campus before the game, during the game or after the game. IT HAPPENED. It doesn’t matter to me because I don’t have a dog or is it rattler?, in this but if iit were my school I would like the prez to sit down until at least the investigation was over thus limiting the school’s exposure.
When?
December 19th, 2011
7:07 pm
If James Ammons had a shred of professional ethics, he would have offered his resignation.
A young man died…unnecessarily. When the civil and criminal trials come, and they will, hopefully James Ammons will be held accountable in a court of law.
darattler
December 19th, 2011
7:12 pm
Oh My (or Oh You)!! I’m neither a band alum nor taking a defensive stance. I’m taking a sensible stance. I don’t know about you, but once I entered college, I was expected to make adult decisions and not expect the president of the university to watch over me and control my sex life OFF CAMPUS. University presidents do not get paid to babysit college students. If you cut the fool OFF CAMPUS, that’s between you and the local law enforcement. FAMU is undergoing several political investigations right now. Several news sources mentioned that the band was being investigated for “financial fraud”. Don’t believe that crap. Google Florida’s governor and you will learn that this person has more baggage that a major airline. The last thing the university needs right now is to be without a president during this hazing investigation. Besides, the investigation is incomplete so I think it is silly of us to jump to any conclusions until we get the final results. The majority of FAMU’s stakeholders support Dr. James Ammons and will reject any attempt by the governor or anybody else to use “undue influence” to remove him. Did I make myself clear?
Right Thing to Do
December 19th, 2011
7:15 pm
It is in the best interest of the family and the university for the president
to step down,but the governor of Florida should not make the decision.
I know that the Atlanta Journal Constitution covered a death from hazing
“prank” at the University of Georgia (4/10/2000). Mr. Benjamin Grantham III
unfortunately died from a frivolous fraternity activity, but I don’t know if the
governor of Georgia requested the removal of the president of the University
of Georgia at the time. The issue is not whether the young man was a
“willing participant”,but that the activities are wrong and illegal under Florida
law.
darattler
December 19th, 2011
7:15 pm
@ When? – Please keep in mind that during court precedings, all of the evidence (good & bad) is laid out on the table. That includes text messages, witnesses who were hazed, etc. Let’s not jump to any conclusions until we get ALL of the facts in this case. Actually, we think Dr. James Ammons is doing a wonderful job at FAMU.
yellowdog
December 19th, 2011
7:19 pm
yes, the president shouild step down; it is a criminal act and there is no time like NOW for him to man up; its a disgrace that hazing continues anywhere franily; young people have been dying for years from inciedents like these and no one seems to care since it continues. what have we come to sit by and watch this indecent behavior go on just to prove a young person worthty of what? the intetions of cretins? those who haze are indeed cretins; and criminals. go ahead, leave while you are ahead, sir. the buck stops inside your office door. shame on you
FAMU95
December 19th, 2011
8:07 pm
No…
Feed UP
December 19th, 2011
8:10 pm
No, president should not set down. No civil suits either. Did he sign a oontract that he would not participate in the hazing. Was he hanging around just to become head drum major. His death is tragic. He was an adult and made the wrong choice to belong. When are the people who choose to be hazed, gonna be held responsible (Bria Hunter)for their decisions?
Random Thought
December 19th, 2011
8:14 pm
Saying the president of FAMU didn’t know about hazing is like saying Beverly Hall didn’t know there was cheating.
Proud Rattler
December 19th, 2011
8:51 pm
Okay, a little inside information. For years high ranking state officials have made it very clear that FAMU was no longer needed. What do I mean? FAMU was founded under the premise of providing African Americans an opportunity to go to college. Well, now that times have changed (not going to go there) there is no need for FAMU, students can simply go toFSU. Research the constant battles of the FAMU Law school etc. etc. The governor imposing his “opinion” is a set up to what he and many of the “good ol’ boys” wants to happen. Finally, I do grieve for Champion’s family, however I’m not naive in the regard that he was a 26 year old grown man who should have said no. We send 18 year old men and women to war to make life altering decisions, he could have said NO!
Side note: I’m SO sick of hearing about Beverly Hall, I’m not upholding her, she was DEAD wrong however, every interaction that involves an African American does not have to be compared to her.
Buster clown
December 19th, 2011
8:52 pm
This is typical of HBCU’s. There is a public and well known secret of hazing nobody wants to challenge until a death. This has been going on for years with frats, soro’s and other social groups. Some say I won’t haze like I was hazed but end up doing the same thing. Now this trash has filtered down to the high schools. This culture has to change.
Proud Rattler
December 19th, 2011
9:05 pm
This is right on point!
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/matt-dixon/2011-12-17/corrine-brown-slams-rick-scott-recommending-famus
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/documents/75930829/download?secret_password=228yz8nd08yfe14q0s77
Inman Park Boy
December 19th, 2011
9:15 pm
First, what should happen is that the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Second, if there has been a tolerance of physical hazing, then leadership changes are in order.
Atlanta Mom
December 19th, 2011
9:20 pm
Firing the President will have no effect on the students at all. Firing the Band Director might.
Brian
December 19th, 2011
9:47 pm
Get real! Everyone involved knew initiations like this take/took place. From the poor individual who passed away, to his parents, to the band officials, to university officials. Sadly, someone passed away.
Spurning Governor, Florida A&M Declines to Suspend President in Student’s Death – New York Times | headlinenewsreport.org
December 19th, 2011
10:14 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution [...]
SOMEONE.IS.DEAD.
December 19th, 2011
10:28 pm
I cannot fathom any excuses being made for anyone involved in this case. SOMEONE.IS.DEAD. D-E-A-D. NEVER coming back. Six feet underground, forever. This is repulsive and inexcusable. I hope other HBCU bands are taking note and paying attention.
I agree with whomever state that the band director should be axed.
If they fired the president it wouldn’t change a thing. Sororities and fraternities continue to haze despite deaths within their organizations. As long as there are willing participants who think that it can’t happen to them this ugly cycle will continue.
If (when) the Champion family files suit, guess who is going to have to pay? I feel sorry for any future Rattlers, their tuition will be much more ridiculous than it already is.
bootney farnsworth
December 20th, 2011
12:59 am
nice to see the FAMU supporters giving so much defacto support to black on black crime. good work, guys. fight for the bands right to kill.
seems dropping the band is a good idea. with these attitudes, FAMU will be better suited with a gangsta rap group
instead of a homecoming parade, they can have a homecoming drive by.
bootney farnsworth
December 20th, 2011
1:04 am
up next:
band members didn’t kill Champion, “the man” set it up.
just a thought
December 20th, 2011
2:06 am
This is how the situation at FAMU can be cleaned up immediately. First, you place the band on a 4 year ban from performing. This allows the current band members to complete their studies and move on from the school. Bring in a new director that will build the program from the ground up…stressing excellence while having a zero tolerance for hazing. Most importantly, hire a president that understands his number one goal is providing a safe environment to which students can receive a top notch education. The schools top priority is educating students…anything else (sports, band, etc.) is secondary. FAMU, ignore those who say Champion(or others who allowed themselves to be hazed) played a role in his death. This type of reasoning iswhy hazing still exists.
Hazings, HBCUs and others
December 20th, 2011
2:09 am
Yes, the FAMU president should go. As someone wrote earlier, these higher-ups know what their school’s culture is–hazing, cheating, sexual abuse, etc. No more excuses from Penn State, from Bev Hall, from FAMU, from others. This guy should not be dead. Murder at the hands of his bandmates.
Hazing occurs in other institutions, too, but it is very popular in black schools, the HBCUs. which are in trouble. Take Morehouse for instance: enrollment is way down. the ‘men’ had to be told not to dress as women on campus, our provost was recently demoted, our CFO recently fired, we had to settle a lawsuit with the feds recently. All under current administration. Why isn’t the AJC writing about all that? protecting the prez? Protecting the AU Center? Why? Don’t let me get started on how we feel about the FL here. It’s a mess here at “The House.” Pres. Mays must be rolling in his grave.
Stoned Mountain
December 20th, 2011
2:27 am
You fire the FAMU administration on whose watch this terror occurred, you clean house as proof you value life and order over jobs, and make way for new leadership to assure the university community and future generations of students you mean business — ad that it is a new day. BOTH COACH PATERNO AND PENN STATE PRESIDENT GRAHAM SPANIER WERE FIRED AT THE SAME TIME..
American
December 20th, 2011
6:10 am
Let me tell you something and I really don’t care who I offend. The HBCU Fraternities and Sororities need to stop following you know WHO!!! You need to RESPECT and REPRESENT the history of these societies and what they meant to our communities. There was no hazing in the Fraternities or Sororities 1919. You plead to get good grades and help by providing service to your communities. Wake UP!! I just told a young person who is planning to plead to look up the history of the group see what they have accomplished in our communities, see if they have reached back to help other receive an education, see basically WHAT DO THEY STAND FOR IN THE 21st CENTURY!!! Enough with getting rid of the University President, it is time for our future leaders to take the responsibility for their action and STOP! This is NOT what formed our respected and envied Fraternities and Sororities!!!
HS English Teacher
December 20th, 2011
6:35 am
Why do ANY students submit to hazing? Until students themselves refuse to participate in such practices, no administrator is going to be able to stop it from above.
darattler
December 20th, 2011
7:25 am
@HS English Teacher – Thank you! The only people that can stop hazing are the students. The only people that can stop crime are the criminals. It doesn’t matter who occupy the president’s seat or the chief of police seat. Dr. James Ammons should remain president of FAMU unless the investigation proves otherwise. The investigation is ongoing.
Students, stop the damn hazing (hazees & hazers).!
catlady
December 20th, 2011
8:28 am
rattler, until the students were returned to the University campus, it was a trip under the auspices of the University. Yeah, students signed waivers, but any law prof will tell you those won’t hold up. So the supervisors and the University are liable. Higher ed law class would tell you this.
Now, reading bout this, I wonder if it was really hazing or if he was being punished, and got a beat down for that. Not that it matters now. It seems it was thugs looking for an excuse to beat someone up–a sad commentary on the band members. I have to wonder about their ties back to the Dekalb bands. Glad Dekalb is looking into it; I hope they have someone credible doing the investigation.
As to hazing, I cannot think of any rational person who would be willing to be beat up to be part of a group. My three kids would have told someone to go jump if they had been required to do that to be a member of a group. There is this thing called Personal Pride.
I do think the band should be disbanded, the band director and his subordinates fired, the VPSA fired, and the president fired. In 5-6 years, start all over again, making sure every single person knows that if there is another incident of hazing with injuries, the band will be shut down forever, and those in the chain of command fired. The current president and band director have proven themselves to be ineffectual, at best, and do not need to continue.
And, no, I don’t think anyone is out to close down FAMU. For one simple reason: do you really think FSU would be willing to take on all those African American students? While FSU has been aggressive in recruiting black students who can walk and chew gum (I worked in admissions and I know the different standards applied to black applicants vs. white applicants), they would NEVER want thousands more black students on the FSU campus. Period.
Stoned Mountain
December 20th, 2011
8:29 am
You can ban from the campus any student organization guilty of hazing offenses, as universities have done many times over the last 100 years. Very simple. Control of dangers to students is the job and responsibility of the school president.
Richard
December 20th, 2011
8:33 am
Hazing has been going on forever. When i was in high school in the sixties you had to grit your teeth and go through a pyramid of getting beat with a paddle till you bled,eating raw eggs, dropped off in the middle of nowhere blind folded and freezing temps. All of this to join the m club or the key club which was made up of straight A students and our leaders of tommorrow. My point is hazing is
nothing new it is part of ecucation. Get over it!
Frankie
December 20th, 2011
8:39 am
@darattler….I was in agreement with some of the things you said, but you lost me when yuo said that hazing OFF CAMPUS is not the responsibility of FAMU administration…
Champion was killed on A CAMPUS, (albeit not FAMU’s) so the fact that assault/hazing took place on that campus makes it the Presidents issue.
Accounability rests with our young adults…they are the ones who can stop hazing (assault if you will). I am not sure when hazing was established, but having gone through it Iunderstood some aspect of the mental challenges, but not the assault portions. I was smart enough to know if it got to much to walk away at age 20.
do we hold gang members to a different standard..If a 26 year old joins a street gang and in order to become the “Alpha Dog” and he does not survive the process and he dies, is there a difference in the situations..other than this Street GANG were seeking a college degree. There are criminals in jail with college degrees….
Whether it is a Fraternity or Not hazing at this stage of the game should be abolished..
I do not thing the presdient should be fired because of a ROGUE organization that did everything underground..If you look at the presidents responisbilities, he watches over and works with the FRaternities and Sororities in order to eliminate hazing. Had this been one of those groups that this had happened to then YES he should have been fred. But this group (GANG if you will) is just like a street gang that “beat in” or “beat out” one of its members.
If he does not weed out the menbers of this group and remove them from campous then yes….FIRE him, FIRE him, FIRE him….
HS English Teacher
December 20th, 2011
8:39 am
Hazing is not part of education. There are plenty of straight A students who would never submit to beatings that cause bleeding.
Frankie
December 20th, 2011
8:48 am
@HS English Teacher…you are correct that hazing is not a part of education, but for every Straight A student that won’t submit themselves to hazing, there is one that will.
We as parents have to drill it into our young adults that physical hazing is not acceptable and continue to pressure the school administration to enforce the laws of the unitversity and the state.
Frankie
December 20th, 2011
8:56 am
@ Good Mother…I believe that every young adult has to be held accountable for their actions. No one deserves to get hurt or die, but like i said before if you choose to walk in a building that is on fire know that there is a chance that you could get hurt or die….
By the way i will be on jury duty the first of next year…
How can you try and wear a moniker called “good mother” and call people imbiciles because they express an idea different from yours…
By the way name calling is juvenile and is part of hazing and bullying…of which you have said you are against…I’m just sayin’
carlosgvv
December 20th, 2011
9:03 am
Whenever I see large groups of FAMU students and faculity on TV they are all black. I thought segeration was outlawed years ago. When was it reinstated? And, what colleges now are all white?
Frankie
December 20th, 2011
9:08 am
No colleges are all white just like FAMU is NOT all black….Your implication and arguement are tired and weak….
ALL HBCU’s accept any person holding GREEN DOLLAR BILLS….just the IVORY LEAGUE schools….
Cosby
December 20th, 2011
9:14 am
Hazing or just another reflection of our deteriorating society? this is the question, my bet, all stems from society’s ills and perhaps those nasty rap – so called music.
WAR
December 20th, 2011
10:21 am
pledging is a necessary process. hazing is one component of the process. both are critical to the success of an organization.
WAR
December 20th, 2011
10:26 am
school daze (movie) has examples of pledging/hazing in it. animal house (movie) has examples of pledging/hazing in it. old school (movie) has examples of pledging/hazing in it. pledging/hazing reaches across lines in different facets of society. granted these are movies, but these movies do reflect a pattern that pledging/hazing is an extension of who/what we are. some should endure the tests and others should not. under no circumstance however should the process lead to death.
WAR
December 20th, 2011
10:30 am
carlosgvv
whenever I see large groups of PENN STATE students and faculity on TV they are all WHITE. I thought PEDOPHILIA was outlawed years ago. When was it reinstated…..
Good Mother
December 20th, 2011
10:46 am
Frankie, I can call myself a good mother and call you an imbicile because you are an imbicile.
You are also dangerous. I am terrified that my child might grow up in a classroom and be influenced by the child you raised to think as you do.
You refer to our disagreement as a “difference of opinion.”
That’s quite an understatement you are making, Frankie.
What you are advocating is criminal and against the law.
Of course, it’s obvious that the law means nothing to you.
@darattler from Good Mother
December 20th, 2011
10:50 am
Darattler rears his ugly fangs and says “If I can offer any advice to the Champion Family, I would suggest they limit their media interviews until the investigation is completed. I’m not sure who’s advising them, but I don’t believe it’s going to help their case in the long run. That’s just my opinion.”
Well, of course you don’t want the Champion family in the media because every time they do they communicate the culture of violence FAMU embraces. They are exposing the dirty secrets of FAMU and darattler is worried he might be implicated.
Daratter, attacking the family of a victim is cowardly.
You, ratter, are a coward.
darattler
December 20th, 2011
11:03 am
@ WAR – My thoughts exactly. Everytime I see Gov. Deal on TV, everybody standing around him is WHITE. I didn’t know the State of Georgia Government was still segregated.
@catlady – You’ve got to be the most narrow minded bigot in America. Let’s get one thing straight; FAMU is not interested in taking over FSU for obvious reasons. No. 1, that has to be one of the most criminal colleges in America. Students have been raped in their library, students have ignited fire bombs on campus, students have been caught cheating on MUSIC EXAMS, professors have been caught with porn on their computers, students have been shot and killed on campus, they have been charged with academic fraud, their athletes have been arrested and charged with assault on police officers and other students, black athletes are being exploited and the list goes on. Just this week, 3 (THREE) of FSU’s athletes were arrested. Don’t take my word, Google it. Several of FSU students transferred from FAMU because they could not handle FAMU’s rigorous curriculum. Just so you know, life is good at FAMU and our students are the best and the brightest. You can keep your garbage at FSU and we’ll keep our jewels at FAMU.
Critical Thinking
December 20th, 2011
11:04 am
The University does have strong anti-hazing policies. Students who are willing participants and those who haze can lose scholarships and be expelled per the student handbook, The FANG. Additionally, band members (and other student organizations) are required to attend Anti-Hazing workshops. Band members signed contract to not participate in hazing or to be hazed. Hazing complaints are forwarded to the police. The band is suspended. There is no indication the school is not cooperating in the investigation. What more from an administrative perspective can be done? I do not think the school should risk accreditation to make people calling for blood happy.
darattler
December 20th, 2011
11:21 am
@ Good Mother – Lets be clear on my position. We (FAMU Community) stand united with the Champion Family in their call for the indictments of those who caused the death of their son. We also stand united with the Champion Family in their efforts to end hazing, once and for all. If the Champion Family wants to sue FAMU for the death of their son, that’s fine to. My position is this: going on a media frenzy to attack FAMU can be counterproductive. I really don’t thing it helps the Champion’s case. The hazing at FAMU is under investigation. I think it is premature for us to jump to any conclusions until the investigation is completed. My personal opinion is that
Robert Champion (God bless his soul) was deeply involved in hazing himself. FAMU has 13,000 students. It is wrong to paint all of FAMU’s students with the same hazing brush. FAMU’s students are some of the Best & Brightest in the country. If you believe that hazing only happens at FAMU, then you are a bigger fool than I thought you were. We stand FAMUNITED for justice for Robert Champion. We stand FAMUNITED agains undue influence and unwarranted attacks against our university by ANYONE!
Critical Thinking
December 20th, 2011
11:33 am
The difference between Penn State and FAMU is that in the Penn State case the grand jury investigation and documents indicated that administrators knew of wrongdoing and FAILED to act. In the FAMU cases when the school learned of wrongdoing, the University ACTED. The band director alerted the police in the Bria Hunter case. There is no evidence of a coverup in the Champion case or Bria Hunter Case. The police have been involved since the Sunday after the incident; students called the ambulance soon as Champion collapsed. The University has been instructed not to take any further actions by the FDLE.
another teacher
December 20th, 2011
11:38 am
These are grown people, not children. FAMU president should step aside because he is the head.
Unfortunately, a young man was murdered. We should call it what it is and that is murder. We don’t like that word. Crimininally those who did the act should be held accountable. Those who allowed this to happen, FAMU school should be held accountable financially. I have no idea why anyone needs to beat another man to death for a frat, a group, or a symbol.
Celia
December 20th, 2011
11:43 am
It is not good enough for FAMU board of Directors, President and Band President to say that they did everything to stop hazing.
The point is that FAMU University did not take any “action” to stop hazing on their campus, property, buses and at its events.
I would have expected FAMU to take action such as have a bus count of everyone getting on and off that bus. They should have a bus captain, who is trained in security control and they should be centered front, middle, back of the bus during an event.
FAMU could have taken “action” to make sure everyone was off the bus and the bus was locked and guarded with no one able to access it.
FAMU should have had a medic on that bus, who should have been the last off the bus. Every seat should have been checked.
They should have found out “why” a group of students went to get Robert champion off the bus he was on and “force” him on Bus C.
FAMU failed to take action to back up their claim that they tried to stop hazing.
FAMU band director should be investigated to find out where the money was spent when he would report and gets money for so many people going to an event; yet, less than that really went to the event. They owe the state and taxpayers money back. They are embezzling money for their own benefit at taxpayer expense. They should be closed down or loose accreditation.
Action means room checks and guards at the door on road trips. These students represent the school and even if they are at school or in their own apartment and something happens to another band member, they and the school is accountable.
The bus should have cameras, which I am sure they did. We need to see what happened on that bus.
ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS!
Frankie
December 20th, 2011
11:50 am
@good mother…so you think that NO ONE SHOULD BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS….and you call me dangerous..
You obviously can not read and I can also tell you that your child will not have to worry about sitting next to my child, because my child will be in the higher learning classes while yor child is stuck trying to get out of remedial english and math.
Lesson No. 1…When You “quote” someone the words between the quote symbols should be the verbatim words used. not a paraphase.
And what is it exaclty that I am “advocating”…see i used the word you used in my quote…..here endth the lesson…
Maybe the problem here “Good Mother” is that your education level did not afford you to experience the life of a college student, hence the reason why yuo are so inept about the activities that go on at a college campus….now I understand the comments you made and the lack of sense they make….
Frankie
December 20th, 2011
11:54 am
And you see “Good Mother” I did all of that and did not have to resort to name calling…
darattler
December 20th, 2011
12:59 pm
Celia said : “They should have found out “why” a group of students went to get Robert champion off the bus he was on and “force” him on Bus C.”
@ Celia – During Robert Champion’s funeral, FAMU’s Band Director stood at the podium and said “Robert Champion rode back from the game in the LIMOSINE with the rest of the Drum Majors & me & sat directly across from me”.Now, that doesn’t sound like Robert Champion was taken from one bus and forced into Bus C. We really need to await the results of the hazing investigation, pray for the Champion Family and pray for FAMU. The Marching 100 will dedicate the 2012 Season to Robert Champion and march in his memory.
Critical Thinking
December 20th, 2011
1:00 pm
@Celia The bus was a charter bus. The bus company is responsible for locking the bus. Champion left the game in a limo. There is no evidence the band director embezzled any money; the FDLE hasn’t released any reports.
These individuals are over 18. There were no “C Bus” hazing complaints provided to the University prior to this incident. It is only being publicized now because someone made an anonymous comment to one newspaper and other papers ran with it. I actually read a paper that may have named the source; the student was not even at the game in question and was no longer a FAMU student. So given this information why would guards and medics be riding on the bus? Room checks for college students during the early evening (i.e. 7-8 PM)? I came and went as I pleased as a college student even on University trips.
Schools are not generally liable for things that happen in private residences. Schools are generally not liable if they have policies, enforce them, and do not act in a negligent manner. They do not have physical custody of students; schools are not prisons. If that were the case, colleges and K-12 instuitutions would be sued for allowing students to drink and drive, text and drive, students being rapped, doing drugs, students under the age of consent having sex at schools, parents who commit child abuse, students fighting, etc. Colleges cannot make students do anything; students decide if they want to comply with policies and rules.
Warrior Woman
December 20th, 2011
1:10 pm
No. Firing anyone before the investigation is complete is both wrong and unfair.
Mahopinion
December 20th, 2011
2:05 pm
@oh My- Where in my post did I say he “deserved” to die?what I did say was that he was a willing participant in the hazing process and therefore deservesas much of the blame for the outcome as the other students. At 26 years old, he was not a child. He was an adult who made the adult choice to participate in risky behavior. Each of the students involved made the adult choice to participate. Blaming an institution or it’s leaders completely negates the idea of free will. Everyday in every way we all have the choice to either do the right thing or not. I’m so tired of the “boo hoo, he made me do it” attitude displayed by those who don’t have the gonads to own up to their own choices.
Frankie
December 20th, 2011
2:35 pm
@Mahopinion….you have to excuse some “people” on this blog, they not only can not read, their comprehension level falls below the national average….
I agree with you that accountability is definitely being over looked. For every choice you make there is a consequence that will result, albeit good or bad.
I have been accused for advocating something, the only thing I advocate is that our young adults use good judgement in the decisions they make, and be accountable for their own actions.
Seems like some of these bloggers are upset because they now realize that they raised children that will never grow up, they will always be children in the eyes of their parents….and not young adults who should be developing the skill to take care of themselves in this world.
Proud Rattler
December 20th, 2011
2:38 pm
@ cat lady, I read this blog quite a bit, you never came off as the bigot that you now show yourself to be. I believe you have claimed you were a former educator, God bless those black children you came in contact with. And I’m glad I can walk a chew gum at the same time. The governor wants the MONEY for FSU, so CLOSING FAMU is the option.
catlady
December 20th, 2011
3:05 pm
darattler and Proud Rattler: Not sure how I sound like a bigot. I stated a fact: When I worked at FSU the minority students were judged for admission by a whole different scale. That is a FACT. And this was years after the SC Michigan Law school decision. I had to send out denial letters to white kids with 1200 SATs (un-recentered–without the 100 extra points–and when 1600 was the top score) and yet black kids with 900 were routinely admitted. That is a fact. In fact, virtually all black kid’s files were taken before a committee to individually be examined for admission.
I was responding to someone earlier (Proud Rattler, was it you?) who said this mess was an attempt by the governor to shut down FAMU, and I stated why it would not happen. Did I agree with this reasoning? No, but the mamas of Tri Delts and Sigma Nus would not stand for FSU being 50% minority. Simple politics, and the way folks in Tallahassee, many of whom, both black and white, have long-held views of “the other,” and bitter racial animosity (I think you both know that). I expressed, earlier, what their thoughts would be on putting FAMU students on the FSU campus. Apparently so clearly that two of you thought I was speaking for MYSELF. Well, you don’t know me so you perhaps could not tell the tone with which I was writing. Please reread.
I can tell you some things about dicey decisions/actions at FSU while I was there. They certainly have their share of scandals as well. However, the young man who died, who we are talking about here, was a FAMU student. The focus right now should be on bringing his killers, and those who enabled them, to justice.
He deserved better than to be killed on a band excursion, FOR ANY REASON. And those who had the ability to intervene, and did not, should be held responsible.
Critical Thinking
December 20th, 2011
4:20 pm
@catlady The graduation rate for African-American students at FSU is higher than it is for white students.
Ole Guy
December 20th, 2011
5:35 pm
The prez has absolutely nothing to do with this travesty…no more so than if these thugs had pulled a gun on a fellow band member. As I have indicated in previous comments, this entire generation, being inculcated from birth, with the “no one’s responsible for nuthin’” mentality, needs to go through, what we refer to in the military, as an operational standown. Kids, AT ALL LEVELS OF THE EDUCATIONAL CIRCUS, need to be advised, IN THE HARSHEST MEANS CONCEIVABLE, that, FROM HERE ON OUT…NO _ H _ T will be tolerated, under pain of IMMEDIATE and UNDENIABLE CONSEQUENCE…MEANINGFUL and PAINFUL CONSEQUENCE.
Those of you who seem to delight in lambasting the Ole Guy’s antiquated views, and similar liberal use of salty lingo can only look at results: Besides the dismal (at best) academic performances of kids who are (ostensibly) top scholars in high school, we are seeing more and more kids, at extremely tender ages, commiting crimes unheard of in past gens. Courts are quickly becoming Juvenile Courts in absentia…kids/adults seeing no problem is killing one in order to lay claim to a GD cell phone, a pair of sneaks, or some other damn whatever. WHAT MORE EVIDENCE IS REQUIRED IN ORDER TO COME TO THE REALIZATION THAT WE MUST, REPEAT…MUST STOP PISSING AROUND WITH THESE KIDS; WE CANNOT ALLOW THEM THE “SLACK” WHICH WE HAVE SO “GRACIOUSLY” ALLOWED.
We read of these calamities…Columbine, Virginia, etc, etc, etc, and we view them as far-removed, as “not in my back yard”. Perhaps when these kids’ faces become the faces of those we (once) loved, miss terribly, and possibly identify as those to whom we brought into this world gone nuts, we just might start doing the unimaginable…EXERCISE A LITTLE RESPONSIBILITY.
Proud Rattler
December 20th, 2011
5:59 pm
@ cat lady, just because they shut FAMU down doesn’t mean all black students would end up at FSU. It is purely money driven. Those FAMU students could be siphoned off to Bethune and various other small and large FL campuses. Please believe I know of the element of which you speak that doesn’t want a 50 percent enrollment hike at FSU (well of course if it is in athletics and could make the university a ton of money) however I digress. This to me is what it boils down to, Dr. Ammons deserves a hearing and a full investigation and if he didn’t practice due diligence then he should be dismissed.
Ivan Cohen
December 20th, 2011
7:01 pm
The University Trustee’s may “hang tough” or “ride it out” but FAMU will never get back its good name. The publicity surrounding these hazing won’t bring any new students to your campus. Parents may choose to steer their children away from FAMU.
bu2
December 20th, 2011
7:58 pm
The FAMU board, talking about stopping outside interference, needs to be removed. Its that sick circle the wagons mentality that allows this type of behavior to continue. I’m presuming the supporters of this activity on this board are not all the same person. Their support indicates that there needs to be dramatic action to end this activity. The state of Florida has an obligation to stop this and protect their students and they need to start with the FAMU board.
It amazes me that these college students want to beat people like this. These are kids who can afford to go to an out of state school. Its a sick culture when male college students want to beat a 110 pound female as they did with the other student. Its a sick culture when people defend this or blame the victim.
The people doing the beating need to be arrested. And the death penalty is the appropriate penalty for the FAMU band. This has happened repeatedly over the years and just last month 26 got removed for previous hazing.
darattler
December 20th, 2011
9:57 pm
@ Ivan Cohen – FAMU’s good name never left. That’s wishful thinking on your part. You obviously don’t know FAMU. Several parents have told me in recent weeks that THEY CAN’T WAIT for their children to enter FAMU in Fall 2012 and become Rattlers. If Virginia Tech can survive a massacre of 35 students ON THEIR CAMPUS in one day, then certainly FAMU can survive undergroud hazing OFF THEIR CAMPUS. There were several serial killings on two college campuses in the State of Florida & it didn’t seem to affect their image. This one’s for you:
http://famunited.tumblr.com/#3
Oh My!!!
December 21st, 2011
12:44 am
daRattler…you’re right in everything you said. good luck with the pending law suits. just make sure FAM doesn’t lose it’s good name.
maopinon…you’re right too. no one in administration should step up and take responsibility for the actions of the marquee group of the school. when another kid gets hurt or killed just to get a rep then hey, it’s on them. after all, FAMU is centered around the 100. pennstate is centered around the football program and these instituions must be prtected at all times. I get it now. what was I thinking?? stay small and when FSU swallows up FAMU I guess it’ll be Robert Champions fault too.
darattler
December 21st, 2011
7:51 am
Oh My!! Take two cups of Metamucil and go sit. FAMU will NEVER lose its good name. When all of this sensational unwarranted media attention settles down, FAMU will be stronger than ever. I don’t know about you, but it amazes me how a person was shot and killed on Va. Tech’s campus a week ago and you hear absolutely NOTHING about it on any news outlet. Hmmmm, makes you wonder. FAMU is MORE THAN the Marching 100. If you knew ANYTHING about FAMU, then you would know that. We worry about FSU “swallowing” us up about as much as we worry a dog climbing a tree backwards. “It ain’t gonna happen”. Besides, we don’t want their systemic problems.
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2011
8:42 am
nice to know a price can be put on FAMU’s “good name”.
one dead black man.
based on some of what I’ve read here, I’m actually glad its
just one.
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2011
8:45 am
@ catlady
you “sound like a bigot” for daring to point out things which can’t
be easily repudiated. in short, pesky facts.
ergo, time for the race card. can disprove the point – discredit the person.
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2011
8:46 am
how many black men have to die before the band and its culture of abuse and violence is examined?
2? 10? a whole busload?
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2011
8:49 am
hazing only becomes “necessary” when weak, little people with no leadership skills are involved.
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2011
8:53 am
the reason the President should take a hit is simple.
he’s the President. accountability comes with the position.
had he spent more time actually dealing with this, I’d be
happy he’s being accountable and responsible. but since his
focus has been to circle the wagons and deflect -
time to go.
Frankie
December 21st, 2011
9:19 am
How many people at VA Tech had to die, the president of VA Tech is still in place. Wasn’t security supposed to be on campus, where were they, your arguement doesn’t wash….
Frankie
December 21st, 2011
9:21 am
The president has made strides to require organizations to take responsibility and provided them with contracts that they had to sign in order to be a part of that organization (whether it was band, fraternities, sororities, etc…) the contracts stated that hazing is prohibited and will result in disciplinary actions even expulsion if they participate in hazing (giving or receiving)
The gang that perpetuated this was just that a gang and like most gangs they did not follow the rules..hence breaking the law.
darattler
December 21st, 2011
11:12 am
FAMU Named One of Most Affordable Colleges by JET Magazine.
by Florida A&M University on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 at 9:39am
.
Florida A&M Universitycontinues to receive national recognition for its outstanding achievements. This year alone the historically black university has been named one of the top 100 national universities by Washington Monthly Magazine, one of the Best Colleges in the nation by Forbes Magazine, a Top Green College in America by The Princeton Review and ranked the No. 1 public historically black college or university by U.S. News and World Report.
What is FAMU’s latest feat? FAMU was named one of Jet Magazine’s most affordable colleges in the nation.
“An education is the key to changing one’s socioeconomic status,” said Vice President for Student Affairs William Hudson Jr. “It is important that we do not price out students who want a quality education. An education is truly something that no one can take from you.”
With the rise of college tuition all around the nation, students often cannot afford the fees associated with attending college. Other public schools highlighted in the magazine included the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, the University of Florida and the University of Virginia.
“It’s beneficial to students that FAMU be affordable because we hope to earn our degree without a lot of debt to go with it,” said Markia Butler, a senior journalism student from Jacksonville, Fla. “Being more affordable is really ‘Excellence with Caring.’”
@ darattler
December 21st, 2011
12:05 pm
“FAMU Named One of Most Affordable Colleges by JET Magazine”
LMAO – really – JET Magazine? Do you also like to see a seal of approval from BET or Tyler Perry before going to a HBCU?
darattler is really the worst possible (self-appointed) spokesperson in this given catastrophe. His/her ad naseum moronic drivel is really comical.
By the way, FAMU could be shut down today and no one of real importance would care.
Keeping vomiting up your stupicity, darattler – your only making FAMU look worse with your constant cheerleading. You are kind of your own worst enemy!
...and we wonder why
December 21st, 2011
3:20 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/21/justice/soldiers-charged/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
Should the United States General resign in the wake of this hazing death?
Oh My!!!
December 21st, 2011
4:58 pm
darattler…I’ve had my metamuceil cocktail to go along with FAMU Kool-aid you’ve been drinking. No one is going to dispute the importance of the HBCU in our community. FAM has been there when other educational avenues were cut off or not accessible. However, FAM had and still has a chance to set a serious precedent not only to the rogue band groups that poorly mimic the black greek letter organizations rituals but to all organizations. They have the world looking at them. I can’t speak for the VaTech incident because you and I both know HBCUs are looked at in another light when compared to other non HBCUs. If affordability and a green campus is something you want to hang your hat on go right ahead. But it seems to me if you have an instituion as great as FAM is, then you should have another Ammons ready to step up and take over. Good luck dealing with the intense media scrutiny in the coming weeks. Ssssssssss!!!
darattler
December 21st, 2011
6:08 pm
Yes, we should fire the U. S. General, shut down the military for 5 years and charge these soldiers with murder.
catlady
December 21st, 2011
6:39 pm
Critical Thinking: I am glad to hear that. Source? I guess I can call the IR office.
Proud Rattler: You are right. Not every student would go to FSU. The private colleges, however, like Bethune-Cookman are a good bit more expensive. Perhaps you are right about Dr. Ammons. My reaction is, he should be treated like the Penn State pres. It happened on his watch; he takes the hit. In the Penn State case, we have allegations of rape. In the FAMU case we definitely have a dead student. I think that fact merits dismissal of the president immediately–this waffling does not look good. However, on that we can disagree without me being a bigot. If you have followed this blog for any length of time I think you know I am pro-minority; in fact, sometimes some on this blog get mad at me about that.
I hope all this gets sorted out soon and good comes out of it somehow.
darattler
December 21st, 2011
7:27 pm
@ catlady – After it was reported to university administrators that Penn State’s coach was seen sexually molesting a little boy, the university still allowed this pervert to roam the campus and have access to its facilities for the next 10 YEARS! As soon as some of FAMU’s band members were identified as hazers, they were suspended from the band. FAMU’s President could not have prevented the death of Robert Champion. We cannot compare Penn State’s situation with FAMU’s. Nor can we compare Va. Tech’s with FAMU’s. I don’t know about you, but it seems to me that FAMU is getting more sensational media coverage than Va. Tech did when 35 students were murdered on campus. Why is that? I’m happy to hear thay you’re not a bigot. Yeah right! Some of my best friends are white.
Ole Guy
December 22nd, 2011
11:42 pm
Darat: Jet Mag…is that the fine periodical, I hear about so much, renouned for concise; insightful reporting? I hear that Jet is running, neck-to-neck, with Aviation Week and Space Technology in factually reporting THINGS THAT REALLY MATTER.
Proud Teacher
December 23rd, 2011
9:44 am
FAMU needs to assess the situation more rationally. Many good programs exist at FAMU and many more students of integrity attend this school. This hazing incident is abominable and must be dealt with appropriately, but don’t punish everyone in some kind of blanket reprimand. Go to the source and start the repair from there. Knee-jerk reaction to a horrific incident is not usually the best reaction in the long run. Think is through. This is sound-byte time for the politicians.
Redene
December 26th, 2011
11:21 am
My heart truly goes out to Robert & Pam Champion for the loss of their child. The pain they are enduring is unimaginable. However, has anyone asked what and why was Robert Champion, the 26 year old student thinking? Doesn’t some of the responsibility lie with Robert Champion, the 26 year old student. How much control does parents have over their 19 year old, the normal age of a college freshman, let alone a 26 year old? I, as a parent of three boys, the youngest a senior in college, don’t know what my 22 year old is doing away from me. When he is away, just as his older brothers were when in college, I have very limited control over their behavior away from me. I must trust that how we have raised them and what we have taught them will guide them in their decision making. When our children engage in such inhuman activities, is it our fault as parents? Are we as parents responsible and liable? If not, how in the world can you, Ms. Downey, Pam & Robert Champion, or anyone else say that President Ammons is responsible and liable? Robert Champion was 26 years old, fully grown by anyone’s definition. How many times we thought we had control over them when they did just as they pleased? How many times have our children did not listen to our suggestions? How many times have our children chosen friends and acquaintances, that we did not think best for them? How many times have our children engaged in activites when we have asked them not to? Ms. Downey, what about an article on the role the student who is being hazed play in the whole hazing atmosphere?
darattler
December 26th, 2011
1:22 pm
@ Redene – Thank you very much for your very eloquent comments. I agree with you 100%.
Chandler
December 26th, 2011
1:34 pm
CEO’s are typically held responsible for the actions of their employees, a failed policy, the company or organization not responding within its jursidiction, etc. The FEMA director during Katrina had to resign, The CEO of Jetblue, Airways, Inc. had to resign when passengers were left on the runway during a major snow storm, The CEO of BP resigned after the explosion in the gulf, the CEO of CL & P resigned after the company’s power restoration policies failed to restore power to CT residents after an October snowstorm, and lastly the PSU President was terminated along with the head coach. Why should Ammons be treated any different. His is ultimately responsible for putting students at risk, so is Dr. White. regardless of the numerous resports submitted to the president’s office, he should have gone before the The Florida State Department of HIgher Education Board to plead his case when there was no action from school admininstration. Unfortunately a student died becuase of the lack of policy enforcement and failure to protect the student during academic activity. I believe that Ammons should resign and drastic change be made immediately — an overhaul is needed, new adminstration with zero tolerance for hazing and any student found guilty of hazing to be expelled without hesitation.