FAMU aftermath: DeKalb suspends all high school marching band activities
I have been talking to experts on hazing in the wake of the FAMU scandal, and one shared conclusion is that college hazing rituals have spread to high schools.
DeKalb County Schools apparently is concerned about that possibility, announcing today that the district is suspending all marching band activities pending an investigation of “possible inappropriate activities” among band members, alumni advisers, band directors and others.
Hazing has dominated the headlines because of the death last month of FAMU drum major Robert Champion. Metro Atlanta sends a lot of students to FAMU, so the death has been felt here, no where more acutely than Southwest DeKalb High school from which Champion graduated.
System spokesman Walter Woods said officials started asking questions at Southwest DeKalb High School because of connections to alleged hazing incidents at FAMU. Robert Champion, the FAMU band member who died, and another member, Bria Shante Hunter, who was injured, graduated from Southwest DeKalb. Two of three FAMU band members charged with injuring Hunter also hailed from the high school.
The system investigation unearthed some troubling finds, Woods said. He was not willing to disclose their nature yet.
Marching band activities countywide, except in special cases such as an upcoming Martin Luther King Day parade performance, will be suspended.
“Our concern is that student safety needs to be assured,” Woods said. “And we have a zero-tolerance policy for harassment or any other inappropriate behavior.”
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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216 comments Add your comment
mem
December 15th, 2011
12:00 pm
Hazing happens in both black and white schools, the difference is that it only makes major news if someone dies. In the white schools, making someone drink themselves to death isn’t unusual. The difference is that it’s considered more a case of the person making a bad choice and it being an accidental death. There is a lot of violence on college campuses (sexual assaults just one case in point) but the schools keep it very quiet.
It’s very unusual for these types of stories to get this much publicity for this long, not to mention reaching this far into a community outside of the college town.
Dr NO / Mr Sunshine
December 15th, 2011
12:09 pm
WOW!! From all this praise one would think the good “Doctor” has aleady made stellar changes to Dekalb. But those “in the know” understand this is the ole “bait and switch” routine. The ole “rose colored” glasses.
Nothing more here than a marketing scam. The good “Doctor” has created the need and now she intends to fill it. She is a great used car salesperson. Nothing more…nothing less.
OH WOW
December 15th, 2011
12:28 pm
Its irritating how the news is trying to spin it to make is seem like dekalb is hazing! DEKALB ISNT HAZING! Dekalb suspended bands because almost EVERY band director is from Famu and the students who were involved were GRADUATES of a dekalb school
band parent
December 15th, 2011
12:28 pm
I think Dekalb County made a wise move. If you think hazing does not go in in our high school bands you need to wake up. Its not all physical abuse, but its mental as well. I have spoken to the band director at my child’s school several times becuase my child was being metally abused. This is not what band is about. Stop bashing Dekalb County BOA and sit your children down and if they open up to you there may be some stories that will shock you. Why do you think Alumni come back to homecoming games. It’s not all about seeing your former classmates. All I am saying is do not be blind to the fact that hazing does occur in high school and it transferes to the college level.#just my opinion
Frankie
December 15th, 2011
12:30 pm
@ Miss Management…I saying that the events that he went through and knew he was going to go through if he dropped the baton, was going to happen…Yes his death is tragic and inexcusable…and the people who caused it should be punished to the fullest extent of the law…
I have a child in college and she is hoping to pledge a sorority….and i have told her under NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD ANY ONE LAY A VIOLENT HAND ON YOU FOR ANY REASON….if they do you leave call me and I will deal with it…
Miss management…if a ROTC cadet is forced to do pushups andother punishment(taking blows to the abdomin) for dropping his rifle and he dies as a result, those individuals also should be punished.
band parent
December 15th, 2011
12:31 pm
I think Dekalb County made a wise move. If you think hazing does not go on in our high school bands you need to wake up. Its not all physical abuse, but its mental as well. I have spoken to the band director at my child’s school several times becuase my child was being metally abused. This is not what band is about. Stop bashing Dekalb County BOE and sit your child(ren) down and if they open up to you there may be stories that will shock you. Why do you think Alumni come back to homecoming games. It’s not all about seeing your former classmates. All I am saying is do not be blind to the fact that hazing does occur in our high schools.#just my opinion
Miss Management
December 15th, 2011
12:32 pm
@ OH WOW – sororities and fraternities (regardless of color) do not beat each other up. They don’t break each others bones, put each other in comas or kill each other with their bare hands. These are cases of assault and homicide — calling it “hazing” makes it almost seem innocuous.
Frankie
December 15th, 2011
12:36 pm
@OHWOW…..again…RDO or whatever you want to call them are not a FRATERNITY…and i agree if a fraternity is all about hazing in order to call members there own then yes they are no better than a gang, just like RDO.
probelm is OHWOW…you said RDO is “LIKE” a FRATERNITY…so they don’t have a orgaizational head that will be charged for this killing, just a bunch of individual.
If the QUE DOGs (OMEGA PSI PHI) were to do this and they have…they would face jail time all the way up the chain —national president…
Ask the KAPPA ALPHA PSI of FAMU who just went thru this very same issue afew years ago with akid from Decatur…and I think his dad was also a KAPPA…those who maimed that kid faced jail time…
Frankie
December 15th, 2011
12:39 pm
unfortunatley (ms. mgmnt)that is the real world….right wrong or indifferent that is what is going on and has been going on for decades since BEFORE the first blakc or white fraternity stepped on a college campus…
Been through it, but i had the courage to walk away if i felt like it was too mch for me…and not worry about beiing called out on the YARD..
Frankie
December 15th, 2011
12:44 pm
Hazing is what leads to these issues of injury and death. check the internet for how many fraternities get kicked off campus for this reason…again not say it is right, but you know what may happen when you join. you make the decision to stay and take it.
I have taken steps with my own Fraternity to make sure that they understand the consequences for their action if someone comes up hurt or worse…dead.
Flabberghasted4sure
December 15th, 2011
1:07 pm
@ Oh WOW: Battle of the Bands and Jamboree are not sponsored by the Dekalb County School System. Do your research.
Miss Management
December 15th, 2011
1:20 pm
Criminal acts people. Not hazing. Happens all around the country and people get put in JAIL.
Hazing scandal leads to sexual assault charges in Montana
http://rivals.yahoo.com/highschool/blog/prep_rally/post/Hazing-scandal-leads-to-sexual-assault-charges-i?urn=highschool-wp9938
As reported by KRTV.com, the Great Falls Tribune and other outlets in the Great Falls, Mont., area, the 2011 Great Falls (Mont.) High football team was rocked with a hazing scandal that revolved around an activity called “power gobbling,” in which upper class members of the football team picked up freshmen victims in the shower by their crotch. In the process of that hazing activity, Great Falls senior Alex Mauricio Botina-Roehm allegedly stuck his thumb up a freshman’s rectum.
That act led to a felony charge of sexual intercourse without consent and two felony charges of sexual assault against Roehm, who has pleaded not guilty to the charges against him. In the meantime, the teen has been expelled from Great Falls public schools for taking part in the hazing ritual.
crystal
December 15th, 2011
2:11 pm
Hazing is a criminal activity that often results in emotional abuse, assault, rape, suicide, accidental death, and murder. The need to belong and the belief that bullying is just something one has to deal with is so strong in our culture, even if there are injuries, criminal investigations and charges are usually not pursued until there is a death I have seen it happen repeatedly and have left groups because of this behavior. DeKalb is taking an unusual stand and I admire them for it. The question really is, will they actually do something about what they find strategically and longterm, or will they just let it go back to status quo? And will parents help put a stop to whatever is going on?
Brent Barker
December 15th, 2011
3:33 pm
PapaJ – You’ve hit on a topic I thought would be ignored and that is the innocent hazing that is considered permissible by adults in our society. I submit that these incidents in lower level schools give students a distorted view about what is acceptable to do to others and what is acceptable treatment by others. I see this all the time and think it is coaches, teachers and parents who are the root of hazing. Anytime someone allows or encourages a child to “lord it over” another child — whether because they are less athletic, new to a group, shorter, etc — we are teaching children it’s ok to be mean and it’s acceptable to be picked upon. Those children grow up and enter college with a misunderstanding of how they should treat others and how they should be treated.
OH WOW
December 15th, 2011
4:06 pm
@band parent – There is a huge diffrence between Mental abuse and discipline. I can personally say this new generation is so damn weak if you look at them wrong they will burst into tears. Its ridiculous. You wouldnt know the mouth alot of these kids have on them. They have that “I want respect” attitude but a disrespectful as all get out. So before shouting “hazing” check your child. Just because they may have told him to maybe do “push ups” or they yelled at him for doing soemthing wrong dosnet constitute as hazing. Football coaches yell at players ALL DAYY LONG and also put them through streneous activities.
@Flabberghasted4sure – Jamboree and BOTB is not sponsored by dekalb schools but a good bit of the proceeds go to the county. So do Your research.
@MissManagemnt- You clearly dont know what goes down in faternities. My brother pledge Omega Psi Phi and he went through the same crazy stuff. My brother line brother had to be rushed to the hospital while pledging..I wont say what exactly happened. But the point is the same stuff goes on In fraternities, sorrorities, FOOTBALL, Basketball EVERYTHING.
PEOPLE learn the diffrence between discipline and Hazing. No offense to anyones child but this new generation is VERY WEAK and demanding. They wont things handed to them on a silver platter. ALOT of kids have that “dont tell me what to do” attitude towards students maybe trying to help them, and even teachers ,and then when you make them do something simple as 5 push ups, they cry and whine. Sports teams do it all the time. What you people need to realize is band is a team effort. If you dont have discipline in the band it just wont work.
Note
December 15th, 2011
4:57 pm
My comments are not directed at the administrations’s response which I feel are justified – just your minimization of the power of music….
This isn't hazing from Good Mother
December 15th, 2011
5:24 pm
A “beat down” is something gang members do to initiate one another. That’s what these two young people received from the FAMU band — a gang-type “beat-down.”
This isn’t hazing.
To call it hazing is like calling Hitler’s murder of six million Jews, a “population shift.”
Champion was murdered by a gang who beat him down to “initiate” him into the gang.
This is what happens when fame and money is more important than anything else.
To be in the FAMU band to a young, black musician is similar to being a celebrity on a reality show. In that college, the band was more important than the football team – and we all know football is a religion in the United States.
What we have here is a university administered by greedy ADULTS with no morals, no values, and no common sense. Money and fame are the most important thing in their world.
The kids are innocent victims. They do what they are taught to do. Ms. Hunter wanted her $82,000 college scholarship. She wanted to be a musician in a famous band. Who could blame her for that?
What she got for wanting an education and for wanting to be a part of a prestigious institution — was a beat down by a bunch of thugs in a gang.
I’m delighted Dekalb is taking this so seriously. If we can stop it at the high school level, we can create a bunch of seniors who go off to college with a different set of morals and values — one that lets them know their parents won’t put up with these crimes and ones that know they can be safe enough to report the crimes when they happen.
Go Dekalb! You are doing the right thing!
Miss Management
December 15th, 2011
5:46 pm
Let me simplify it OH WOW: When bad behavior (you can call it hazing if you want) crosses the line and does real harm to someone it becomes a crime.
OH WOW
December 15th, 2011
5:49 pm
And this guy at a faternity in california died because of hazing….FROM FATERNITIES
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fySASaBXv0o
OH WOW
December 15th, 2011
5:50 pm
@MissManagment – Your right but to punish high school kids who had absolultley nothing to do with it is not right
Miss Management
December 15th, 2011
5:51 pm
Stupid is as stupid does. If some people are so stupid and value themselves so little that they are willing to endure abuse in order to be accepted into some group they deem attractive, then so be it. You don’t need to explain it. There’s really not much to understand about it. It’s banal. But like I said, when true harm occurs, then it becomes a criminal act and should be referred to as such, not as ‘hazing’ gone awry.
Miss Management
December 15th, 2011
5:55 pm
I agree. For example, Dunwoody’s band should not be punished due to the bad behavior of some former SouthWest DeKalb band members. I have to wonder, is SW one of the bands scheduled to play in the MLK parade? Particularly unfair if in the end they get to perform when others don’t simply because it is a “chosen” event.
Miss Management
December 15th, 2011
5:58 pm
Good point on the video WOW. I tried to say the same thing earlier. You’ll notice that they referred to these behaviors as crimes and these boys will go to prison. These are not pranks or jokes, these are crimes and should be treated as such.
Dekalbite@Oh Wow
December 15th, 2011
7:22 pm
I lived for band – first chair flute – so I OWNED the solos, went to state clinics, and in marching season was a majorette. We were a small, lower income school, but our band along with our basketball team was the pride of our school and community. We won competitions and went on trips to march in parades. My community and all of the band members were involved in the fundraising so we could have uniforms, compete, and go on those trips to represent our school.
Everyone knew our success was due to a dynamic and exceptionally demanding band director. It was a bit like joining the army. It was his way or the highway. My behavior may have been lacking in the classroom, but in the band room, it was perfect. So I understand the importance and effect being a committed member of the band has on the self discipline of students. The director of our band was the absolute ruler in the band room, in concerts and when we marched in the streets and on the field. He was the “discipline in the band”, not us. He would never have expected band members to discipline each other. That would have taken away from his authority.
We competed furiously for “chairs” – first, second, third, and everyone else was in the rest of the section hoping to be a first, second or third chair one day. Try-outs produced students coming away crying because they lost their positions, but how well you could play that instrument was the ultimate judge, and how you could add to the entire performance is why you subjugated yourself to the rest of the group.
Band, like athletics, is not just about a social group. It is also about individual excellence and creating entertainment, involvement and performance for others who remain on the sidelines.
Excellence in music and athletics is not predicated on physical or verbal abuse from others. No one is with you when you arise at 5:00 am to run 6 miles or when you practice 4 hours in the afternoon on your musical instrument. Supporting your teammates is not about how bad you can make them feel about themselves.
I don’t know what is happening with band “hazing”, but it is not about excellence in music or performance.
OH WOW
December 15th, 2011
10:12 pm
@Dekalbite- When I say discipline from other students. I meant like Section leaders and drum majors. Section leaders are to help their particular section with music. Section leaders have the power to make someone in their section do a few pushups with band director consent. Nothing serious. Some bands split off into sections to work on the music and during that time section leaders are suppose to keep their section in order. (NEVER by hazing) but by helping them figure out difficult fingerings, If they are being rude and nasty them tell them to do a few push ups. Just stuff like that. Some parents think that if the band director yells at their students he is hazing. And that mentality is why this generation is so WEAK. And im apart of this generation…..
OH WOW
December 15th, 2011
10:34 pm
@This isn’t hazing from Good Mother : NO disrespect but you really don’t know wat you are talking about. HAZING is a nationwide epeidemic. Hazing is in EVERYTHING, From band to football to faternities and sorrorities, the NBA the NFL. EVERYTHING! And those students Robert Champion and Bria hunter were both in the wrong also. They are not these innocent “victims” as you are making them out to be. They were both adults who made a bad decision and they a unfortunatley suffering, Robert (R.I.P) sadly lost his life. But what you need to understand is both of these adults KNEW what were happening. Bria went to the hotel room so she could be initiated into this organization. She made a bad decision and every and decision follows consequences. They are both going to be charged under Florida law for putting them selves into that situation. They both willingly did it to feel “apart”. Bria said it in her interview. And another thing the organazation both bria and robert were crossing is not school affiliated. It is held off of school grounds for that purpose. Famu before all this happened has sat down with the band and done numerous workshops on anti-hazing to let the students know they have a zero tolerance for such ignorance. But at the end of the day you can set the laws in place but you cant stop anyone from breaking the law. Not only did the university do that, but when the famu band director got word of what was going on , he immediatley kicked out about 60 students right before the biggest game of the year. They took it serious. Its not the schools fault for the poor judgement of the students, ecspecially when they did all they could including kicking people out. And as far as the dekalb thing goes. You think its good that some Stephenson and SWD missed out on a 21,000 schlorship to Alabama State because of this silly suspension? Do you think its right that over 1,000 students in the dekalb music programs have to suffer because of the actions of dekalb ALUMNI? Do you think its right that Stephenson has to put aside one of the most prestigious events a band can get invited to “Bands of America” because of something they didnt even do? Do you think its right over 1,000 students may lose their high school bands over something that dosent even have to do with currents students? Maybe you dont understand the tradition and the HARD WORK these students have put into these programs. DeKalb does not have a logical reason to go as far to suspend the bands. Yea the students at Famu were from dekalb but they were being intiated into a COLLEGE organzation. It has NOTHING to do with high school, Ecspecially high schools in Georgia.
Dekalbite@Oh Wow
December 15th, 2011
11:23 pm
“Do you think its right that over 1,000 students in the dekalb music programs have to suffer because of the actions of dekalb ALUMNI?”
But this is not what Dr. Atkinson is saying. She is saying that there were some incidents this summer with the bands in the DeKalb System that she feels need to be investigated, and policies need to be updated to ensure those incidents don’t happen again. I don’t know what those incidents were about, but I’m willing to give Dr. Atkinson the benefit of the doubt. Do you know the incidents referred to involving DeKalb students?
say what?
December 15th, 2011
11:41 pm
I commend someone finally taking action in DCSS over improper rituals and routines. Some people do not understand what is occurring in schools. CAse in point, a child at the high school comes down to the middle school to assist with the new step team. Because she is older and knows what to do, the step team sponsor leaves her in the room with the new step members. As I walk down the hall way, I hear cursing, name calling, taking about people’s sorry-arse parents. It is the older high school girl getting the younger kids in line. When I chastised her, she looked as if I did something wrong.
Visiting the high school, I hear the older kids and the college students who return to “help” the band name calling, talking about pushing students and breaking them in.
How many parents realize that this exist and would confront the problem? It is systemic and starts in middle school. These kids go on to college believing these verbal, emotional, and physical tirades are how things are suppose to go.
Kudos to Dr. atkinson for attempting to correct this non-sense. She has not suspended kids practices- the band directors have to get permission, and some are not use to asking for approval and explaining their actions. The parents claiming their kids cannot get into college with this countywide suspension, if that is your reality and we know fruit does not fall far from the tree, then your kid is not college ready. LA Times visited today and spoke to students and parents who were using feeling and not rationality.
catlady
December 16th, 2011
6:58 am
These same parents who are up in arms over this would be the FIRST to sue if it was their child being touched inappropriately! I hope the super will hold to her decision until the investigation is complete (so many times they fold) and be sure that students are not being abused, and that money is not being used inappropriately. That has been an issue before in Dekalb–adults enriching themselves at the expense of students.
This isn't hazing from Good Mother
December 16th, 2011
7:52 am
Some of the comments on this board say somethning like “you know what you are getting into before you join.” In other words, “tough luck.”
That’s just wrong.
No kid (and 26 years old is a kid) understands death. We see it everyday when we drive — when we are young we feel invincible — bad stuff happens to other people, not us.
We adults do it when we text and drive or talk on the phone and drive — it won’t happen to us, we’re the careful ones. Those tragic deaths from people talking and texting on their cell phones never happen to us.
I admit it. I did some darn foolish things in college — as a 22 year old. I had a very small car. I drove 110 miles an hour home from college. Imagine that. 110 miles an hour without a seat belt until…..
In that same tiny car, while driving without a seat belt, at a slow speed (50 mph) some other college student who felt as indestructible as I felt, ran a red light and plowed into me.
I got out alive but spent several months in a wheel chair that I couldn’t even operate because I had broken arms and legs and it delayed my college graduation by six months. I also still have medical issues with those limbs today..
Which is to say — now I drive at a reasonable speed and I always wear my seat belt but it took a huge wake up call to make it happen. I’m a normal, rational person.
To blame the victims in these cases is to live in denial. We want to believe that the victim had it coming to them because that would mean we can protect ourselves — we would never be thqt “stupid” so nothing bad can happen to us right?
Wrong.
We adults need to protect our children. Victims are victims and nothing — not football, not money, not fame is worth a rape, a death, an injury.
I am delighted in Dr. Atkinson’s decision to investigate. More power to her.
To O Wow From Good Mother
December 16th, 2011
7:55 am
O WOW — you said “Bands are a culture in dekalb.”
That’s right.
A gang culture. A culture of violence.
..and the fact that you bring up money in this conversation, as in look how much money the band brings in….says it all.
You value money more than life.
Just like a gang.
OH WOW
December 16th, 2011
8:36 am
@say what – Your partially wrong. Stephenson and SWD both had to pull out of an event hosted by alabama state. Dekalb officials made them pull out and this event which was for schlorship money. 21,000 to be exact. So because of that SHS and SWD student wont have that band schlorship money that would also pay for the students room and board. So that persmission thing is CRAP, they really dont want anyone to do anything. And not to mention Stephenson has a HUGE event in febuary called Bands of America. Its a REALLY hard thing to get into. Stepenson is the 3rd predomintley african american band to be accepted to go since WORLD WAR 2! It is a HUGE honor, but the officials wont let them practice. This will probally not come around again. Which is highly unfair to those students. SWD has students who made the NATIONL honor band which is rare and extrmely hard chance and opportunity. But these kids cant go to any of the rehearseals or practice. Its highly unfair.
OH WOW
December 16th, 2011
8:43 am
@catlady – if that is the case then they need to suspend EVERYTHING. Hazing is not in just one thing, Its in EVERYTHING. It bad on the football team at my university. So if they go suspend the bands they also need to suspend the football team, basketball team, cheerleading teams. Its a nation wide thing. They dont have any proof of any hazing in dekalb, they are only suspending the bands because swd has alot of people who go to Famu, they have strong ties, but what you need to realize is that what goes on in famu is not the concern of dekalb. The rituals and practices of Famu are all college related organizations. It has nothing to do with dekalb. A few Stephenson and SWD students had to pull out of an event that would AUTOMATICALLY give them a 21,000 band schlorship to Alabama State. These kids are losing band schlorships over nonsense. These band schlorships is the only way alot of these kids will be able to even go to college. Its a big mess. And this is only the beginning….
Dekalbite@Oh Wow
December 16th, 2011
9:17 am
“. They dont have any proof of any hazing in dekalb, they are only suspending the bands because swd has alot of people who go to Famu, ”
You don’t know what proof DeKalb has because you are not part of the investigation. This is your opinion. I don’t any of the particulars either so all I can go on is my opinion. My opinion is to let the administration investigate allegations of hazing in DeKalb.
Dunwoody Mom
December 16th, 2011
9:22 am
Apparently, the school system has received more complaints since this story broke. Dr. Atkinson is right to suspend marching band programs until a thorough, complete investigation is done. I would hope that parents everywhere would want to insure the safety of students in this school district. Can you imagine what would happen if DCSS failed to follow up on these complaints? It would be worse than 50 or so parents making fools of themselves in front of television cameras.
Flash
December 16th, 2011
9:38 am
You people a child is dead another broken up wow I forgot it is not yours I , I , I ,this needs to be looked at fools for more than for two deadly reasons if your child is good as you think they are they will make it .please have a heart and some dam common sense.
mem
December 16th, 2011
9:54 am
@This isn’t hazing from Good Mother, Ms. Hunter didn’t get hazed in the FAMU band because she wanted to get an education. She attended the same high school as the people who hazed her, so she undoubtedly knew about the RED DAWGS long before she got to FAMU, and chose to be a part of that group and participate in their “rituals”. She consciously decided she wanted to become a RED DAWG and has subjected herself to the abuse on more than one occasion.
Personal responsibility has to come into play. She knew that her scholarship was at risk, just as much as the other participants did. It cuts both ways. If she thought she was in over her head, she should have called home…..she didn’t. I don’t believe for one minute any of the participants (at least 12 initiates with her as the leader) thought it would come to this. As someone pointed out, if she had not needed hospital attention, this young lady would have been doing the same thing to some freshman next year, because that’s the process. I’m a band parent and I’m sorry for what happened to Ms. Hunter, but not wanting to be looked at as “lame”, she chose to go the male student’s apartment more than once, so again, there’s plenty of blame to go around.
The bigger question is what’s wrong with our children that they willingly do this type of thing to get into and remain in an organization? Watch the reaction at say one of the high schoool band events when a group of these college kids stut through the crowd wearing the jackets of these “organizations”. It’s a “WOW!!!” reaction.
Dunwoody Mom
December 16th, 2011
9:58 am
@mem – I can only have pity for your “blame the victim” attitude. Bria is a freshman in college – still someone’s child. Our children often times find themselves in situations for which they do not have the skills to retreat from. If you have children, I hope they never have to face the type of life situations that Robert and Bria faced, and also know that you, as their parent, may not have their back.
Frankie
December 16th, 2011
10:12 am
SO at what point do you expect your child to grow up..Champion was 26. The message we all need to take away from this is the traditions (if yuo will) of back in the day are not the same as they are now…every class is trying to out do the one before it..the whole issue of hazing needs to stop…as we see it leads to assault, and death…
No one is blaming the victim, but they have to be accoutable for themselves..Champion nor Bria were mugged or jumped by someone hiding in the bushes…they knew wahat was about to happen, (maybe not the extentof it) but they had already been through hazing incidents (or assault incidents) before..
Frankie
December 16th, 2011
10:17 am
No flash ….a young man at the age of 26 is dead…lets not act like these young adults don’t have a brain to think with..and you are right…parents have to do a better job of asking questions about what is going on in these organization (your young adult) has to be a member of…
Dunwoody Mom
December 16th, 2011
10:18 am
I just am speechless at these individuals who continue to make excuses for the death and beat-down of these 2 young people. Frankie, you ARE blaming the victims. Your attitude is shameful.
The Deal
December 16th, 2011
10:57 am
Dunwoody Mom, I am with you on the ridiculous assertions that these victims somehow “asked for it”. What kind of sick person beats up people for fun? Think about beating up someone you work with every day. How does that even make sense? There is obviously something emotionally and psychologically wrong with the kids who are doing the beating. Period.
As for Dr. Atkinson’s actions, I wholeheartedly support her. She has not shut down the band programs permanently, nor has a timeline been placed on the suspension. Bands are able to ask for permission to practice and perform, and there’s very little chance this suspension will last very long. In addition, the bands ARE allowed to practice during school hours, so those bands with upcoming competitions are not just sitting around twiddling their thumbs. I have to think that the connections between FAMU and some DeKalb County high school are not coincidental, and if the hazing starts in our high schools, Dr. A has a responsibility to investigate it. What would parents say if they knew the administration had evidence of hazing and didn’t do anything about it and, heaven forbid, a high school student died? As for making the suspension county-wide, who’s to say that hazing doesn’t go on at Chamblee or Druid Hills? They might as well investigate the county program since the head of the county program is also suspect.
As for this happening in all sorts of activities, I would expect that if the administration receives credible information that hazing is taking place in another activity, say, football, Dr. A would take a similar path and suspend those, too. You can’t use the excuse that “it happens everywhere” as an excuse to not do anything.
OH WOW
December 16th, 2011
11:02 am
@FRANKIE and @MEM – You two are hitting the nail on the head!!! PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILTY! These are not babies, these are adults who chose to do this! No one forced them! They willingly participated which makes them just as guilty.
@Dunwoody Mom- Your attitude concerns me. These “victims” are just as responsible. They were both ADULTS. These are not children. These “victims” are just as much in the wrong as the people doing the hazing because they willingly participated so they could be cool. Its against florida law to Haze, to willingly partake in hazing and to know of hazing and not report ASAP. Personal accountablity has to come into action. her wanting to “fit in” is not a good excuse. And her being a freshman, FAMU made freshams do workshops and attend seminars and sign contracts about the Anti-hazing policy. She was fully aware of EVERYTHING. She will be charged for hazing also for willingly being involved in it. Thats like you saying if a 18 year old does drugs then the only person who should be charged is the drug dealer… You know you shouldnt do drugs but you chose to do them anyway which makes you just as much responsible. Its the same logic. They are not babies, they know right from wrong and it dosnet matter about the fitting in crap she said because before the school year started she (along with every other freshman) were informed of the STRICT anti hazing laws. SHE IS JUST AS MUCH TO BLAME, stop making excuses for their bad judgments
Really amazed
December 16th, 2011
11:06 am
I have a feeling that their is much more to this story then any of us will ever know!!!! Some how covering up something!
OH WOW
December 16th, 2011
11:15 am
@DR A- Please do your research. Both STEPEHENSON AND SOUTHWEST DEKALB students are being denied to go to an event that would automatically give those selected students 21,000 band schlorship to Alabama State. And like I said before. These victims KNEW what was happening and what was going to happen. Bria went to an off campus apartment to take place in it. She said in her interview she knew what was going to happen but she only did it because she didnt want to be considered “lame”. Her excuse is unexcusiable. She broke Florida law by willingly partaking in hazing and by not reporting it ASAP. She is an adult who is just as much apart of this as the hazees. SHE IS BEING CHARGED WITH HAZING FOR A REASON. She broke the law. She willingly did all of this. It was no secret to her so stop trying to make it seem as if people “jumped” her. And the same with robert. He willingly chose to let those people Hit him because he wanted to show his “pride” and so he could feel apart. I am def not condoning Hazing AT ALL but what you need to realize is PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY has to come into play. These are not children, Robert was 26 years old for crying out loud! He knew the ends and outs of the progam. He has done some hazing himself , he was not a blind sheepgoat to any of this. And neither was bria. Your logic makes no sense. Your basically saying for example, If an adult did drugs, then the police should just charge the drug dealers for supplying the drugs. You cant supply it, if someone isnt buying it. The point is these adults made adult decision whether good or bad they have to have accountability for their actions. They are not victims..The real victims are people who a suffering because of something beyond their control. Like those SHS and SWD band students who are missing out on a 21,000 band schlorship because of the foolish actions of famu students.
mem
December 16th, 2011
11:29 am
@Dunwoody Mom, This isn’t blaming the victim, but if this were my child, she would know that I’d be down there in a second to take care of her healthcare needs, I’d be making a ruckus, AND afterwards, I ask her, “Child, what were you thinking?” “Didn’t you tell me before you came her that you wouldn’t let anyone put their hands on you?”
I am a parent, and I am also a band parent whose child got an HBCU band scholarship, and I know kids in many of the HBCU bands, so this is personal for me. I also know that there’s hazing of some sort within HBCU bands and have had discussions with my kids about it. We’ve discussed what I expect them to do if someone puts their hands on them to cause them harm. I’ve told them there’s no shame in calling home if they feel they’re in over their heads. We’ve discussed, and discussed this topic, because I know how dumb young people can be. I now how much peer pressure takes hold when they are with their peers.
I hurt for Mr. Champion’s parents because I can’t imagine my child coming home to me for Thanksgiving in a casket. His situation doesn’t even come into this particular conversation as far as I’m concerned. With blood clots in her body, Ms. Hunter came have died had those clots gone to her heart. Those young people who were arrested may never have the future their parents thought they would have. The whole idea is that you go through your “initiation”, then you get to do it to do the same thing to the next crop of students. It’s a requirement. At the end of the day, they are all victims of something they all thought they could handle.
Frankie
December 16th, 2011
11:42 am
Dunwoody mom and the deal…no disrepect but you obviously never pledged to be in any organization, fraternity or sorority…I have and I knew exactly what I was getting into…
My attitude is REAL…you can call me shameful or whatever…I have a daughter incollege and she knows the ramifications of her actions…
People need to understand that this has been going on long before you or I were even born….
I live in the REAL world and I prepare my children for the REAL world…
Just as my Parents told me…I tell my daughter….if the situation get to much for your to handle GET OUT..do not allow someone to beat you with anything…
This whole thing with FAMU is MUCH DEEPER than hazing.. other than the death of Mr. Champion, FAMU will be under investigation for a host of other issues and will be loosing its accreditation for several of is degreed programs…
I have experienced pledging for a Fraternity…stop being Naive..Educate yourself and your children/young adults..
To Mem From Good Mother
December 16th, 2011
11:44 am
You write “I’d be making a ruckus, AND afterwards, I ask her, “Child, what were you thinking?” “Didn’t you tell me before you came her that you wouldn’t let anyone put their hands on you?”
The key word is afterwards….AFTERwards..
There is no afterwards for Mr. Champion. He is dead.
There is no afterwards for a rape victim. Time and medicine cannot heal those wounds.
The damage is done. The death is permanent. The rape hurts forever.
A GOOD PARENT would not let this happen because they would DEMAND that the place they send their child to get an education would be a safe place.
You have your priorities all messed up.
Your attitude is all wrong. Your method is “you’ll be in a fight so let me show you how to say no when a gang jumps on you and beats on you.
One person cannot stop a gang of thugs from putting a beat down on you. Do you really think that gang is gonna let your child pull out her cell phone and call home in the middle of a beat down?
Mercy, you are stupid.
The Deal
December 16th, 2011
11:47 am
Two things:
1) There are only 2 scholarships given at the drumline competition, and that’s to one school – Alabama State. Those 2 are not guaranteed to DeKalb county students – there are hundreds of eligible students. So, you can stop making it sound like a guaranteed scholarship has been ripped away from hundreds of kids. What about the lives of the kids who have been hazed? Why are they not at the top of the list for sympathy?
2) Do those of you who are blaming the victims blame a beaten wife for staying with her abusive husband? There are numerous psychological and social factors at play in an abusive relationship, which is what is going on in these groups within the bands. I do know that they were not begging to be killed or go to the hospital. Stop blaming the victim. It’s obvious you are either friends or family of bullies, hazers, or people directly implicated in these hazing situations.
Frankie
December 16th, 2011
11:48 am
luckily i survived…as a young adult we thuogh we were invincible as do the young adults do today…I am not blaming anyone. But you don’t walk into a burning building thinking you won’t get burned..
I was not forced to do anything i did not want to do…if i did not want to do it or be there i would have left…quick fast and in a hurry…even if i had to fight my way out.
If I had died during the hazing i went through I aswell as those who hazed/assalted me would be responsible…not blamed but responsible.
We have to teach our young adults accountability and self worth…I though that being a part of my organization was the best thing for me at the time…I has provided me with life long friends and people I can count on for ANYTHING…
Youu can’t get that at your job…