Are we setting students on a path to careers that may not even exist in 20 years?
I have never understood the focus on “career paths” in middle and high school as I don’t think a 14-year-old is ready to pick a career.
Often, when middle and high schools offer specific career training, they lag behind the industry because they can’t keep up with the rapid changes from afar. Nor can schools afford the new technology so they are sometimes teaching kids with yesterday’s standards, equipment and practices.
The ideal career path models place high schoolers in internships and apprenticeships in the actual industries where they see what current practices are and where the technology is up-to-date. That makes sense and is happening in some places in Georgia.
Speaking of up-to-date, I was talking to a Georgia Tech professor who suggested that computer coding become a standard course starting in elementary school. He said everyone will have to deal with coding in their jobs, so computer languages should be regarded as a basic skill set that every child should have.
Rather than teaching a career that may disappear in 20 years, schools ought to teach kids how to learn and how to adapt. In a New York Times column a while back, Thomas Friedman quoted Reid Garrett Hoffman, the founder of LinkedIn, on jobs of the future.
“The old paradigm of climb up a stable career ladder is dead and gone. No career is a sure thing anymore. The uncertain, rapidly changing conditions in which entrepreneurs start companies is what it’s now like for all of us fashioning a career. Therefore you should approach career strategy the same way an entrepreneur approaches starting a business.”
To begin with, Hoffman says, that means ditching a grand life plan. Entrepreneurs don’t write a 100-page business plan and execute it one time; they’re always experimenting and adapting based on what they learn.
But Georgia is now in the thrall of setting kids on career paths as early as middle school, as a new AJC.com story reveals.
Public school students will pick a potential job to pursue in one of 17 broad career categories, known as career pathway clusters. Teachers would start talking to students about potential career opportunities, starting as early as fifth grade.
State School Superintendent John Barge and key lawmakers say the state has to make this move, if students are to have hope of getting the jobs of the future – nearly half of which are forecast to go to people with an associate degree or occupational certificate.
“We must change how and what we do in K-12 education,” Barge said. The status quo isn’t working, given the remedial courses required of many Georgia college students and the business community’s complaint that many graduates entering the work force lack essential skills, he said.
But some parents wonder if focusing on careers will narrow their children’s educational experiences and put needless pressure on them. Teachers, who might be required to serve as career advisers, are concerned their roles in the program would take time away from other classroom duties.
Marc Hayes, an Internet company owner and father of a college student, high school senior and fourth grader, said the idea of trying to prepare students for a career is “generally good.” But suggesting that students pick a pathway at age 14 or 15 is probably unrealistic, he said.
“I don’t think kids at that age have any idea what they’ll ultimately want to do or can do,” Hayes said.
He also questions the focus on current jobs, when those 20 years out could be radically different. “Educators need to prepare kids for a lifetime of learning, not a specific vocational skill,” Hayes said.
–Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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91 comments Add your comment
WAR
December 12th, 2011
9:03 am
first?
WAR
December 12th, 2011
9:04 am
if newt has his way then most minority, poor, uneducated children will be janitors. guess career path wont be much under his leadership
Dr NO / Mr Sunshine
December 12th, 2011
9:25 am
Atleast under Newt there may be a career path. With Obama and his faltering economic plan it seems we have many career dead ends.
Attentive Parent
December 12th, 2011
9:26 am
Congrats Georgia. Being the first to go with basic skills plus vocation will drive employers from this state.
So is GEne Bottoms dancing in the street you have finally adopted his Techademics?
Planned economies NEVER work well unless you are the governemnt bureaucrat doing the planning.
☺☻
December 12th, 2011
9:32 am
“first?”
It’s not 1998 anymore. You can stop doing this.
carlosgvv
December 12th, 2011
9:32 am
This is just one more social experiment in a long line that extends back to the 60’s and is aimed at minority children in hopes of bringing them up to middle-class levels of income in the future. Naturally, those in charge of these programs will never admit this.
Amazing
December 12th, 2011
9:32 am
This is a very stupid idea. At 14, I clearly did not know what I wanted to do. At 18, I had not made much progress. After being exposed to a wide range of options, it became clear what I wanted to do. My oldest daugther wanted to be an engineer at 14. When she turned 18, she decided that she rather pursue a career in marketing. I use these as examples of the silliness of boxing 14 year old kids into career paths. I have a crazy idea. Why not focus of their mastery of the basic educational core competencies that they will need for any career?
business owner
December 12th, 2011
9:33 am
Oh yes, very much so, esp at these for-profit “colleges.” We own a software consulting firm, and the world is shifting to cloud hosted services, so “software as a service.” This was corporations think they can abolish the IT department, all those cables, having to upgrade software packages by sending someone around to each desk every year, etc etc etc. So we need to hire a true web programer; we put out an ad for a web developer – all we get are web site people thinking there’s money to be made in adding cartoons to web sites. Hah – sorry dude… Those who have actual computer skills are hardware/networking types – who’ve been headed for job obsolecense (sp) since the early 2000s. What are the jobs these colleges are preparing people for? Networking… no software programmers who need all those intangible skills of critical thinking in order to discern the best way to orchestrate a process. you can’t teach critical thinking via a slew of on-line classes. What classes are high school programs tracking their kids to? How to build a web site and social media, same time folks are realizing social media is rather limited and possibly rather damaging. Setting them up to meet a very flashy, appealing, no-money brick wall.
A reader
December 12th, 2011
9:37 am
High school should be a time for students to explore different subjects and careers. Picking a career at the age of 14 is ludicrous! In addition, asking already burdened teachers to become mentors or “career advisers” for these career paths is asking too much.
Georgia needs to focus on teaching children the basics and how to learn. If the state of Georgia really wants to help kids become prepared for careers, they should give incentives to business to create internships and apprenticeships for teenagers.
justjanny
December 12th, 2011
9:44 am
Let’s hear from John Barge, former Career Tech employee. I’ll bet his kids are college-bound! Barge is pushing his agenda now since he failed to do so under Kathy Cox. Hopefully, his plan will be balanced and students can lock in to a career or choose to go to college.
Inman Park Boy
December 12th, 2011
9:45 am
This all goes to the question of the purpose of a “college education.” Historically, a four year college degree was limited to those either of economic means or high aptitude, and it was exepected from most that, after the four year degree was obtained, the bright young graduiate would opt for an appropriate professional school (business, law, medicine, etc.) A college education was unnecessary for most other “jobs” or “careers, as a liberal education was of no real use to a clerk, a cop, or a plumber, that is to say, MOST of us. But the “American Dream” (as it was redefined) was expanded from home ownership and a good job to a “college education for all!” Now we have the misguided idea that everyone must have a BA or better just to get an entry level position in almost any endeavor. So, colleges have adjusted and now offer basic lliteracy courses to those who were sick that day, and they are expected to turn out people “ready” for a job. Sounds more like vocational school, doesn’t it? More young people should opt for vocational school, for, as the name “vocation” implies, they prepare you for a job.Of what possible use is a BA for most people? NONE! Utter waste of time and money.
High School Teacher
December 12th, 2011
9:52 am
I ask my students the following questions each semester: “Do you want to go to college?” “What do you want to be when you grow-up?” Some of them are shocked to learn what they want to do does not require a 4 year college degree. Some of them are shocked to learn what they want to do requies education beyond a 4 year college degree. Some of them have no idea what they want to do when they grow-up. Some students are just going to college because it seems the next logical step in their education. For some students, college is the next logical step. However, spending time at a 4 year university is a very expensive way to find out what you want to be when you “grow-up”. I like the idea of having high school students focus on a career but it needs to include interships and exposure to various careers while they are in middle and high school.
Darren Crovitz
December 12th, 2011
9:59 am
How about a focus on developing skills that are useful in all careers? A short list might include the ability to communicate clearly, to write well for different purposes, to read critically, to work well with all kinds of people, and to respond to real problems with creative and realistic ideas. We could also emphasize the necessity to self educate through life, since adaptability seems to be pretty important.
What’s the point of school if kids leave hating the idea of learning things?
Career & Technical Education
December 12th, 2011
10:03 am
Maureen, Your view of high school career and technical education is based on the way things use to be. You should visit Decatur High School’s College and Career Academy and see first hand that their CTE programs are cutting edge. They dont suffer from old equipment and outdated practices. Call Duane Sprull the CTE Director to set up a tour. You have to see what is going on in modern day CTE. Its come a long way.
Struthers
December 12th, 2011
10:03 am
A good school doesn’t teach a set of skills, it teaches the ability to read, organize ideas, think your way through problems to solutions to those problems. The schools that turn out vocation school kids doesn’t necessarily do that. Also, a person has to be motivated to want to work and earn their own living. That seems to be the anti-Christ to the liberal party which would like to have its voters beholden to the government dole.
Me
December 12th, 2011
10:08 am
We don’t want the workers thinking!!
I swear Barge is turning out to be worse than Cox and Sherenko combined.
soccermom
December 12th, 2011
10:15 am
Why on earth would we require these very young children to commit to a narrow course of study? Even most college students have some time for exploration before declaring a major.
High school “electives”, no matter what you call them, should be made available for the purpose of broadening the horizons of the students, not to funnel the students down a “career pathway”. Many children have not been exposed to a large variety of possibilities. They simply choose a job from the categories they know about.
From one perspective, it would be useful to require that a student take an elective from each of those pathways just to see if it sparks a passion in the child. But, if this approach was used, you should not be allowed to grade on aptitude, only effort. It wouldn’t be fair to flunk a kid because he/she simply isn’t good at art, for example.
From another perspective, the approach I outlined above would be a waste of time and effort for the students who are already truly passionate about a certain post-high school path.
Attentive Parent
December 12th, 2011
10:24 am
Not to be mean Darren but you so encapsulated the ed school talking points I knew you had to be a prof. Good ol KSU. Tell the Dean you ably pushed the 21st century learning skills that are designed to create that global planned economy with minds designed to be submissive and manipulable.
So did you work with Ken and Yetta getting that PhD in English ed at ASU?
Whole Language heaven. Now apparently at Kennesaw State. Poor Cobb County. And you wonder why academics are in a tailspin and none of the manufactured stories make sense.
Darren Crovitz
Associate Professor of English and English Education
Contact Information
Office: English Building (EB 27), Room 117
Email: dcrovitz@kennesaw.edu
Phone: 770-423-6598
Fax: 770-423-6524
Profile
Coordinator of English Ed Graduate Programs
Teaching at Kennesaw State since 2005
Ph.D. English Education, 2005, Arizona State University
Specializations: Media/Visual Literacy Critical Thinking in English/Language Arts Writing Instruction and Assessment
Courses Regularly Taught: ENGL 7741/3241, Digital Media and Technology in ELA ENED 6414/6475, English Methodology I and II ENGL 7750, English Studies in the Schools
Most Recent or Most Important Publications: “Sudden Opportunities: Porpoises, Eggcorns, and Error.” English Journal 100(4) (March 2011). “21st-Century Commercial Texts in the Classroom: Exploring Online Selling, Manipulation, and Subterfuge.” Teachers as Avatars: English Studies and Technology. Hampton Press: 2011. Laura Davis and Linda Stewart, eds. “Wikipedia: Friend, Not Foe.” English Journal 98(3) (January 2009): 91-97.
Email: dcrovitz@kennesaw.edu
Beverly Fraud
December 12th, 2011
10:38 am
APS is already ahead of the curve here with their state of the art career advancement program.
Employing Resources Achieving Sustained Economic Results
Better known by its acronym ERASER.
teacher&mom
December 12th, 2011
10:40 am
Let’s not forget the Bridge Bill that was passed by the GA legislature.
Maureen…you may want to read the bill and talk with school systems that are having to meet the Bridge mandates….along with the DOE mandates.
Panthergirl
December 12th, 2011
10:49 am
As the parent of a rising 9th grader, I found the article in the AJC this morning very troubling. My son has no earthly idea what path way he wants to take. I don’t think he should be forced to choose at the age of 14. A high school education should be preparing children to analyze information and become critical thinkers. I may be missing something but I don’t understand the benefit of a 14 year old declaring himself to be on the “accounting track” or the “education track.”
Beverly Fraud
December 12th, 2011
10:50 am
APS has been a model for education reform. My record speaks for itself.
Tony
December 12th, 2011
10:53 am
God deliver us from the idiots running this state.
Beverly Fraud
December 12th, 2011
10:54 am
Well Panthergirl, if he declares to be on the “education track” at age 14, you can then get him the INTERVENTION he so obviously desperately needs!
Beverly Fraud
December 12th, 2011
11:01 am
My but someone is INDEED an attentive parent. Whole language…ah yes, if we just make the stories “interesting” the children will figure out the phonics all on their own.
Funny how all these “interesting” books weren’t but “See Spot Run” was…because the child could ACTUALLY READ “See Spot Run”.
Nothing like being able to ACTUALLY READ a book, to make it enjoyable for a young tyke to read.
Darren Crovitz
December 12th, 2011
11:02 am
@Attentive Parent,
I’d argue that the ability to read and write well are important in any century.
John Konop
December 12th, 2011
11:04 am
The problem is the one size fit all path that many of your promote. If a student decides to enter a math/science academy that merely fosters that ability relative to his or her aptitude. The same can be true for the arts, VO-TECH…… The key is not putting students into 4 year college bound or out path like we do now. Also not forcing all students to be this perfectly rounded student.
Currently today we have students dropping out at alarming rate, students graduating with a GED and no real skills and students forced into classes not aligned with their aptitude. The current system is a not working for too many students. Would not a student be better served with real skills and or more enhancement of aptitude over the current system? And if a student decides to change career path would they not have more options with job skills or advance subject knowledge than the current system?
This utopian few of education has left more children behind that is has helped. No matter what we do, nothing will be a 100% right, it is all about what serves the public best as a whole.
Dekalbite@Career and Technical Education&Maureen
December 12th, 2011
11:05 am
” Duane Sprull the CTE Director to set up a tour. ”
Duane was one of DCSS’s Career Tech coodinators before Decatur City hired him. What a loss for DeKalb students. Duane is a very bright, highly motivated individual with loads of classroom experience and an extensive technology and career ed background. I’ve heard that he has done an exceptional job in Decatur City Schools. A tour would be worth your while if for no other reason than to see what a really effective administrator can accomplish.
Jerry Eads
December 12th, 2011
11:09 am
Hey, I’m ancient and I still dont’ know what I want to be when I grow up. Although my training has served me well over the years, what has kept me (more or less) on my feet has been the philosophy minor in college that gave me some of my capacity to think through things and adapt.
Sounds like John is leaning us back toward (dast I say it) tracking, but in truth that’s NEVER been left. The upside of that is many kids get much that they need for where they’re headed. The downside is that we miss a lot. You can take a kid with an IQ of 160 and convince her she ought be a TV repair person, and one with an IQ of 115 and convince them they should be a college professor. You MIGHT be right, but chances are just as likely the data you had (most likely test scores) were wrong.
We can do both. We can help kids start on the path they want to try first, and give them some of the wherewithal to adapt when that path changes or disappears.
BW
December 12th, 2011
11:10 am
I think that you have to start focusing them into paths that we at least allow them to prepare for the future. The college track students will be just fine…this is more targeted to vocational track students. It is more or less doing what other countries do in funneling students into career tracks albeit much early than high school. It needs to be monitored and kept broad for those students who are currently having a difficult time but will mature and want viable options in his or her future.
Road Scholar
December 12th, 2011
11:10 am
Attentive Parent: His listing is a start. Add math and problem ANALYSIS and solving to the needed coursework. Reading these blogs daily, not many can disect an issue, identify alternatives, and select the best option based on results of an analysis!!! Oh, and add manners to the list!!
HS Public Teacher
December 12th, 2011
11:10 am
Setting career paths for children is a real dumb idea. But, this is Georgia after all, and we seem to jump on every dumb idea there is in the book!
So a high school is supposed to specialize in a career? And, this is supposed to help the student?
What if Sally in middle school thinks she wants medicine. She goes to the medical high school career track. Then, in her 2nd year she realizes that no way she can work with blood or any body fluids and suddenly has a high interest in law. Is she doomed for her life in terms of a career?
Why does GA need to spend the $28 million (this is what South Carolina spent on this idea) to do this? I just don’t get it.
How about spending the money to help reduce the over crowded class sizes we already have? Why do our Georgia legislators want to spend education dollars when the basic education requirements need the money so badly????
Me
December 12th, 2011
11:35 am
Can we recall these morons?
Goldfinger
December 12th, 2011
11:37 am
i’m teaching my young adults (and and learning for myself) you’ve got to pursue your passion in life. first understood must be a purpose for being here and how this existence was established. padardigms change but purpose will never change. consider all the markets and possibilities for tomorrows young adults… bleak outlook. if purpose can be ‘preached’ and instilled in their hearts and it is practiced, peace and prosperity will prevail. the money and material necessities for success will follow.
peace this Christmas (it’s about a purpose)
V for Vendetta
December 12th, 2011
11:43 am
Partisan politics leads to this kind of crap. We’ll get more of the same after next year’s election, regardless of who’s elected.
Consider this: I had to administer a test today that is a field test for a test that will not be given next year.
Did you get all that?
We are adminisitering the tests that were being developed before the Common Core Curriculum was handed down–i.e., they will be irrelevant next year if we move to a different curriculum. But we still had to administer them–at the cost of instructional time and taxpayer money. Why?
Who knows . . . .
Clueless
December 12th, 2011
11:56 am
Computer coding? I think we used to teach that back in the 1980s or 1990s…
Attentive Parent
December 12th, 2011
12:02 pm
Darren-
I wouldn’t disagree which is why I believe the tipping point is discovering there was a deliberate attempt not to teach reading or writing or math or science to the level of fluency that allows independent thinking.
Covering up that “how to prevent independent, analytical thinking” and why was a big part of the cheating scandal at APS and why the other urban school districts at Council for Great City Schools did not care that Beverly Hall was cheating when they elected her Pres in the midst of the scandal. She and her staff just got caught up implementing systemic reform before the new obscuring “assessments” could be put in place.
Someone who saw her interviewed recently asked me why she remained so cocky and I said she thinks the real story on what she was pushing and why will not come out. She is wrong.
Wait until parents discover there are word lists of the dribble of literacy to be allowed in the future. It is why media and digital literacy are being pushed as on par with print literacy. These charming parasites do not want future citizens able to think well.
So under the circumstances Darren that was quite the disingenuous response since that is the last thing Ken or Yetta have ever wanted. Probably why Ken was Goodlad’s first PhD student.
Pompano
December 12th, 2011
12:07 pm
If we all got to pick our career paths as kids, the world would be full of Cowboys and Astronauts
Tony
December 12th, 2011
12:16 pm
The very best thing we can do for students with regard to future careers is to give them a well-rounded, broad education. We should hold their feet to the fire with high expectations. Our communities and parents must help to create a culture that values learning. Many jobs of the future haven’t even been invented yet!
Maureen Downey
December 12th, 2011
12:21 pm
@Clueless, Don’t think so. I think the Tech professor is talking about the sophisticated digital programming/coding that kids are now getting in college-level classes. These college coding classes, while combining creativity with practicality, require a good deal of higher math skills.
Here is a link to a British college professor’s take on this issue:
http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/spannermans-edublog/2011/11/all-students-must-learn-to-code-star-trek-will-make-it-so/index.htm
BOB FROM ACCOUNT TEMPS
December 12th, 2011
12:27 pm
my guess is that in 20 yrs you will still need to flush a toilet!
Devil's Advocate
December 12th, 2011
12:33 pm
My wish list for kids graduating high school:
Understand cause and effect.
Be able to use math for the purposes of counting inventory, balancing a budget, estimating future trends based on historical data (doesn’t have to be perfect but in the ballpark), and general ability to measure given the appropriate tool.
Be able to understand “basic” science principles (why shouldn’t you randomly mix household goods or paint/clean without proper ventilation).
Be able to write legibly.
Be able to articulate a point in written and verbal form by presenting both facts and opinions, then effectively presenting the reasoning for the belief.
Be able to use a map, compass, and effectively use cardinal directions.
Be able to listen to a speaker and ascertain the message being delivered. Also able to ask questions for anything misunderstood or unaccounted for in the message.
Be able to both follow and draft instructions.
Be able to use reference materials to effectively research a topic on his/her own.
I’m sure there’s a few other basics that can be added to the list but if a person can generally do these things then they can learn to do any job they desire. I don’t care if a person is going to college, vocational school, the military, or directly into the workforce; the above skills will make that person better off for future success.
Grumpy Old Man
December 12th, 2011
12:35 pm
These are the same Republican politicians, including Newt, who think funding for Summer youth employment which offers inner city youth the opportunity to earn paychecks during the summer by working at parks, recreation centers, schools and pairing up with county and city employees in roads and drainage and other agencies should be eliminated. The hypocrisy is astounding.
Darren Crovitz
December 12th, 2011
12:38 pm
@Attentive Parent,
I think we’re on the same page on this one. While I believe there’s some merit in being able to critique media messages and use digital technology, that’s not a substitute for a rich background in old-fashioned reading and writing. Learning to read and write well is essentially a process of learning how to think. I’m not convinced that “digital literacy” gets us there alone.
(The Goodmans are at the University of Arizona. I didn’t work with them.)
Digger
December 12th, 2011
1:00 pm
Kids should learn Chinese. In order to be able to communicate with their masters.
☺☻
December 12th, 2011
1:00 pm
You don’t necessarily need great math skills to do “computer coding” (correct names are software development, software design, etc).
However you should be able to implement math/algebra algorithims when needed for solving a problem in a design, as well as solving the occassional equation to derive “x” or whatever.
Also software design is largely problem solving, LEARNING MORE, and being able to accomplish something methodically.
Of course it depends on the particulars of your field but I’m speaking generally.
A lot of it is abstract thinking in today’s world (object-oriented programming, abstraction, layers, etc).
Atlanta Native
December 12th, 2011
1:11 pm
Barge’s proposal is out and out SOCIAL ENGINEERING. Scary! High school is supposed to provide an education in the basics, while giving students a chance to explore various subject through elective courses. Choose a career path at this age? It’s hard enough just to choose a single COURSE!!! If the goal is to prepare kids for a career, why not simply provide a new elective course, that is OPTIONAL for all kids, called “Choosing a Career”? For those who are interested, it should prove at least as valuable as a typical PE class.
Newt G.
December 12th, 2011
1:17 pm
This is silly. I didn’t find my true passion–lobbying–until after I left Congress.
cris
December 12th, 2011
1:19 pm
True Story: I was awarded an art scholarship to a local college after high school…for many reasons, I ended up dropping out of college to find a full time job. On every job application, it asked about awards, honors, etc. and I always included my little scholarship (which I’m sure many laughed about). One fine day the president of a computer company called and asked about my art abilities “Art? You must have really good hand/eye coordination, right?” and I was hired that day to plug in components on computer boards (blue collar, but, hey, an honest living). Point being, you can’t always train directly for what you may end up doing! Stayed in that job for several years while I figured out what I really wanted to do….;and worked my way through college graduating cum laude. Secon point being, I didn’t know until I was 21 years old exactly what I wanted to do. A majority of non-college prep students are the same…believe this will be a mistake.
Hong Kong Career Model
December 12th, 2011
1:24 pm
I have a young Chinese friend who started university this year in Hong Kong. They have a similar, yet more structured policy now in this area that started years ago based on a British model. As has occurred in Hong Kong, the concern I have is that higher education will start looking at the classes a student has taken in high school and admitting them based into that area of study alone. My young friend decided he wanted to specialize in languages and thought it would be “neat” to be a translator at 14. When it came time to apply for university his senior year, he decided he wanted to go into education. He was informed that none of the universities would accept him without additional lower level training to switch career paths. He has reluctantly decided to continue with languages. Their program was established for the same reason that ours has been proposed, but has become a part of the education process and limits student’s aspirations.
Janet
December 12th, 2011
1:28 pm
@ Business Owner — I completely agree with your statement… especially the need for critical thinkers. My husband is a critical thinker who was mislabeld and misplaced in high school. If he had continued to believe what they told him, he would probably be an out of work steel worker living in the Applachian belt where we grew up. Instead he is working for a Fortune 500 company here in Atlanta as a “problem solver”. And he is is doing it all WITHOUT a college degree of any kind… thanks to his critical thinking skills. His most recent sucess is figuring out a problem that was initially outsourced to IBM for MILLIONS. When they couldn’t figure it out, they gave it to my husband as a last ditch effort and he came up with a workable solution in a matter of weeks. He is worried that someone is going to realize his lack of a college degree and fire him. But I know that you can’t get his type of skill just anywhere, so I’m not worried.
Some times public school totally gets it wrong! My husbnad was was placed on a vocational path in high school and when he graduated, he became a Machinist at Wheeling Pittsburgh Steel (3 years). I convinced him that he needed to be in college. He relunctantly enrolled at the age of 21… but unfortunately did not do so well. His history of bad study habits proved too much. School was always easy for him. He never ever studied… ever! He sort of fell into the weed smoking, school ditching crowd and was placed on a vocational path. He eventually entered a community college and that is where he found his calling in computers (coding, networking, general problem solving etc). He has been able to advance very quickly because he is known as “The guy who get stuff Done”.
As a side note: My husband’s identical †win brother is just as intelligent but also not “book smart” ended up in special education classes because he didn’t fit inside the public school box. Very sad.
td
December 12th, 2011
1:32 pm
A little fact to all of you. ALL STUDENTS are not college material. We have a huge HS dropout rate because of this fact and we are not giving these children a fair chance to succeed in life. The vocational education path that Dr. Barge is talking about is not the same path as 30 years ago. This path will provide students with a technical path and a skill set while at the same time incorporate the core skills of math and English. Believe it or not some students may not be able to understand Geometry in theory but can lay out a perfectly square building.
Dr Barge is also asking industry leaders to advise on what skills are needed. I know for a fact that Microsoft has committed to working with the BOE to have a curriculum that will allow our students to become Microsoft certified by the time they graduate. Is this not a better solution for someone that might have dropped out of school and had no skill set?
Devil's Advocate
December 12th, 2011
1:49 pm
Someone remind what was wrong with the old General/Vocational/College Prep seals that used to go on GA diplomas…
Dave
December 12th, 2011
1:55 pm
Under Obama’s plan the top 10% of students will have a career and the other 90% will sit on thier butts and let the working 10% “spread the wealth”!
Old Educator
December 12th, 2011
2:00 pm
In 25 years of working with high school students, I can count on one hand the students who knew at 14 what they wanted to do in the future and then actually went on to do that thing as a career. As others have noted adolescence is a time of exploration, a time to test drive various things without penalty. This is not a move in the right direction for public education, but nothing mandated lately has been.
Also, while there are in fact 17 pathways a student can look into, his/her high school will only have about 5 offered if they are lucky. So, students will be forced into a series of 3 or 4 years of classes they have no interest in studying. One consequence of this is students will continue to see little or no connection with their course work to their life and the real world. A more serious consequence will be the classroom management issues that arise because the students are placed into classes where they do not want to be, which will affect all involved.
Grumps
December 12th, 2011
2:20 pm
I’ve about had it with the educational establishment and their teaching career paths is one of the main reasons.
Reading “Great books of the western world” is on my bucket list. Mortimer Adler, the president of the University of Chicago, was the editor in chief. In the first volume, “The Conversation”, the author(s) absolutely rip the current educational environment for teaching jobs. In their view, the purpose of a liberal education was to teach the student how to learn and adapt. Great stuff, and it was written in 1952!!
I design computer software. I started in 1979. I’ll guarantee you I’ve had to learn and change throughout my career. Almost none of the technical education I learned then is applicable now. I expect this is true in a lot of occupations. If you can’t continually learn how to do the “new” (technologically changed) job, the employer will find someone who can.
Don’t get me wrong. A good electrician or carpenter or diesel mechanic is at least as important (maybe more so) as a good software designer. The job is safer from outsourcing – they have to touch their work, while a software designer in Tasmania can work almost as effectively as one in Atlanta. But I think electricians and carpenters and diesel mechanics will still need to learn new skills throughout their careers. And we need to insure that everyone learns how to learn as part of their basic education.
oldtimer
December 12th, 2011
2:39 pm
I tsught recently for two years in a large consolidated High School in rural TN. They had a state ofk the art Career and Technical Education Program. Many of my students were learning basic electricity, construction, agricultural principles, animal science, computers, drafting, childcare, computer graphics, cosmotology, green house management among things I cannot even remember. Many of these teen-agers will never go to college. But, they will know how to do something and in fields where, at least in this rural community, were employees are needed. Several in my homeroom who had taken some childcare classes and worked in the speial needs daycare are now at MTSU majoring in Speical Education….a couple of low IQ males are working in local green houses or helping manage animals.
Yes, we need to rethink education, but choices do need to be made. Unfortuately some choices will be made by ability. We need to help lower functioning students find out what they are good at and prepare them for it. I wish every one could be a chemist or engineer…Actually, I wish I could have, I might have made more money.
OneFreeMan
December 12th, 2011
3:12 pm
14 years old is not too young to know your career, if you know your “life path”. In case you haven’t heard of “life path” then search the web for numerology life path and enjoy learning about you and your loved ones. BTW – I’m a 9.
LMAO
December 12th, 2011
3:24 pm
Fulton Schools have been throwing this around for a while. I’m not sure it’s working – at least my sons school. The state should follow up on Fulton before comitting too many resources. Hey Katie, how’s the Pathway thing working out for ya?
BTW how well will it work with a charter system?
Flibbity
December 12th, 2011
3:25 pm
Stupid idea. When I was 14 there was no way I was ready to choose a career path. I wasn’t even ready when I graduated high school. I changed my major four times in college. I’m now working a decently steady job and making enough money to have bought a house and pay my bills. If I had been pushed on a carrer path when I was 14 (that was 1996), I’m pretty sure that career would be dead now, because business models change. Sadly, our governing leaders seem to think we live in a static world.
AgTeacher
December 12th, 2011
3:25 pm
If you haven’t visited a current Career, Technical and Agriculture Education (CTAE) program, you should. Several have mentioned preparing students for any job. That is exactly what most CTAE programs do. I have stated many times that I am not teaching kids agriculture, but rather, I am teaching kids life skills using Agriculture as my “carrot”. I teach being on time, responsibility, dedication, see a job through, self motivation, etc., but I use courses such as Wildlife Management, Veterinary Science and Floriculture Production. While some students go to college and get degrees in Wildlife, Forestry, Veterinary Medicine and Golf Course Management to name a few, not all of them do so. I do help provide them with other skills that can be used to secure and keep a job. I have just as many who teach school and work in medicine as go into the Agriculture field. As I mentioned before, if you haven’t visited a program recently, please do so. Only approximately 20% of careers require a 4 year college degree. Over 70% of all careers though require some sort of post secondary training though. It is not always about what is being taught curriculum wise, but rather those other things that go along with what we do in class. Kids are being prepared for careers and most of the time those careers are not specific to the class they are in.
Flibbity
December 12th, 2011
3:33 pm
I think one thing we need to do as a country is reinstitute apprenticeships. Let’s be honest, not everyone is college material. Even if they get in to a college, chances are they’ll burn out. But if we direct these people towards apprenticeships in some form of trade or service skillset, they can at least have a good life making a decent wage. or am I off topic on that one?
Big Al
December 12th, 2011
3:35 pm
It would be wonderful if educators were able to teach students useful, practical skills and give them knoiwledge that they can use throughout their lives. Sadly, our absent-minded Georgia politicians are more concerned about ensuring that stupid crap like creationism and other Bible-based fantasy stories are taught instead. The result is that our students leave graduate from school borderline illiterate and without the skills and knowledge needed to enter the college, the military, or the working world.
Melinda
December 12th, 2011
3:36 pm
It is just stupid to expect a young teen to pick what they want to do in life, look at how many times college students change their majors. It is not that they do not have an idea, it’s that they are experiencing new things and discovering what they enjoy and love to do. A middle schooler has no ability to do that.
Truth
December 12th, 2011
3:45 pm
It’s ridiculous to think that a KID should commit to a career path. Most people don’t decide that kind of thing until they go to college, and often not even until after they get out/graduate.
Looks like education levels are going to deteriorate even further.
I think the intent is to give them a starting point based on the assumption/realization that many won’t go to college, and many of those may not finish High School either. This way the state has given them some general “training” to get them their first job and keep them from become another democrat.
Katz P. Ajamas
December 12th, 2011
3:50 pm
I have worked and earned in 10 of the “path” areas. I’ve recently begun an 11th. Instead of choosing a career “path”, choose to learn what you can and do what you enjoy. You can be a physicist, a farmer and a nurse!
honested
December 12th, 2011
4:04 pm
So Superintendent Barge has shown us the latest plan which follows all GA education plans since 2003:
“Do everything possible to avoid appropriate finance for small classes and well trained/well paid educators. Purchase all the whiz-bang gimmicks provided by companies owned by friends, family members and party hacks (think Jeb Bush and the godawful expensive computer carts). When it fails, blame ‘the liberals’ and proceed to the next faulty iteration”
A recall is definitely in order.
Unemployed for 14 Months
December 12th, 2011
4:04 pm
Please don’t do this to our children and our state. If I were a parent researching different areas to move to due to job changes I’d avoid Georgia like the plague if this gets puts into place!
honested
December 12th, 2011
4:09 pm
I forgot to mention, this harebrained plan will no doubt increase the artificial importance of the educational arm of the chamber of commerce, SACS.
Are we setting students on a path to careers that may not even exist in 20 years? | International Education News | Renascence School International | Panama City | private preschool, elementary school, middle school
December 12th, 2011
4:37 pm
[...] that may disappear in 20 years, schools ought to teach kids how to learn and how to adapt.”(more) Comments (0) Go to main news [...]
Teacher Reader
December 12th, 2011
4:38 pm
Did the Secretary of Education ever teach? I am listening to him right now and he sounds like a bumbling idiot. He stated that secondary schools are saying students are unprepared. Yes because the schools have dumbed down the curriculum and have no idea on how to work, critically think, and problem solve.
This is idea is so stupid, and yet another idea why my son cannot go to a public school.
Cammi317
December 12th, 2011
4:42 pm
This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard and that says alot, because afterall we are talking about the education system here in Georgia. If a 14 y/o’s brain were mature enough to pick a job path, it would not be illegal for him to drive, vote, join the military, drink alchol, etc…
And another thing: It is true that ultimately every child may not be college material, but who are we to deny them the opportunity to find out? EVERY child should have the opportunity to receive an education geared towards college beginning from Pre-K. If they graduate from high school and decide they would rather take the vocational path then they can go to a vocational college. I don’t understand the thinking of some of the people on this blog. I am African American and the oldest 6 children and it was always understood that (1) when we finished elementary school we would go to high school (there were no “middle schools” in Chicago nor when we moved to Georgia were there any here) and (2) when we graduated high school we would go to college. There was never any discussion of “alternative options” and we never looked for any. I am raising my child the same way. She is almost 14 and she discusses colleges and career options, but never once has the idea of not going been expressed by her. She is looking forward to going. I think it is all in the way that you raise your children.
Jimmyonjuice
December 12th, 2011
4:49 pm
Why not start with the basics? Like Reading, or simple math. (I could not tell you the last time I went to a fast food joint and got correct change back.)
The lack of basic skills in students only shows how putting testing and future (out of reach) agendas from government is just not the way to go for public education. There is a reason why over 25% of GA students attend charter and private schools.
Once Again
December 12th, 2011
4:53 pm
Its all about providing well-trained and compliant worker bees for industry and hardworking taxpayers for the government parasites. This was the original basis for public schooling in its present form that came to the fore around the turn of the last century. It has never had anything to do with education, but rather it has always been about conformity (destroying the culture and customs of the huge waves of Catholic immigrants) and teaching the needed skills to fill the factories of industrialists riding the wave of corporatism that fueled the industrial revolution.
At one time education was about becoming a well-rounded human being, learning the arts, literature, and the like and also the needed skills and specialized training for specific careers. All that died when public education became just another tool of government oppression.
Read the wonderfully researched books by John Taylor Gatto, former NY State teacher of the year if you really want to find out about the history of government run education.
jarvis
December 12th, 2011
4:55 pm
My interests at 14: girls, food, football, school in that order
What exactly would I have been able to choose as my career path in life? My decision would have been based on which girls had selected which paths.
Glad mine is graduating soon
December 12th, 2011
5:03 pm
I had a friend from Germany who got tracked vocational. She was almost thirty before she was allowed to enter college because of her tracking at the high school age. It was her dream finally come true! Do be aware that eventually it won’t be the child and parents deciding on which career path.
Did you notice that there is no career track for the arts?
TallaDawg
December 12th, 2011
5:18 pm
In my opinion, at 14 a kid should pick what field he/she thinks he/she wants to enter, and then be encouraged to learn things and try things that are NOT in that field.
As an analogy, can most people imagine dating only one person before you marry, especially if you had to choose that date at age 14? I know that it happens, but it is not highly unusual and rarely successful.
tekgirrl
December 12th, 2011
5:20 pm
The Career Clusters are a guide to preparing students early for the workforce, based on a career pathway of their choosing. Students can’t wait until they are tenth graders to begin thinking about entering college or some other pathway. Employers have partnered with CTE programs nationally to help prepare students for work. I applaud Supt. Barge for stepping up and adopting the model. To the readers of this column, please remove “vocational” from your vocabulary, instead insert “career pathways”, “college ready,” “apprenticeships”…..well you get my point. Visit the following web sites to educate yourselves about the new model. http://www.careertech.org and http://www.thefischbowl.com (video) Did You Know?
Rigor and Relevance
December 12th, 2011
5:27 pm
Career pathways allows a student through course electives to find their passion! If a student who is taking AP Calculus and AP Chemistry and wants to be a mechanical engineer shouldn’t he or she take robotics and/or CAD to see if they would like that particular field of study? We had a student last year who was in the pre-vet class and changed her mind after dissecting a cat. Now, she wants to become a teacher. She is a bright student but learned early in life that veterinary medicine was not her passion. Her next step after the pathway could have been an internship or apprenticeship experience which would have been invaluable. Career Academies across the state are state-of-the art facilities that meet industry standards. Our business community expects us to teach soft skills as well. Majority of the student’s grade will be skills based but the grading scale also include soft skills such as communication, punctuality, working within a team and dress. Why shouldn’t students interested in becoming journalists take AP Lit but also the Broadcast Video Class? Why shouldn’t a student who wants to be a physical therapist, nurse or doctor take the healthcare science class and medical terminology? Wouldn’t an internship at the hospital or in the physical therapist office help the student decide their career path? I don’t think Superintendent Barge wants to force kids to pick a career at the age of 14 but the expectation will be to explore your interests so you can focus on your future! Please follow the link to a recent publication from the Harvard Graduate School of Education: Pathways to Prosperity— http://www.gse.harvard.edu/news_events/features/2011/Pathways_to_Prosperity_Feb2011.pdf
long time educator
December 12th, 2011
5:43 pm
Many students do not have the ability to master the science and math GPS in high school. Others may struggle to read and write on grade level. Rather than dumb down all the classes so these students can pass and get a diploma, we need another track of classes that will meet the ability level of these non-college bound kids who are still able to learn skills and get jobs. One track means dumbing down the curriculum and more drop outs. Allowing another track is good for kids who need the hard classes to get into college and it is good for those who do not have the interest or ability to go to college.
Attentive Parent
December 12th, 2011
5:59 pm
rigor and relevance-
That Pathways to Prosperity document was either written by so-called professionals that did not know what was going on in ed over the last 20 years or they were deliberately misrepresenting to get the desired policies sought.
It’s like Carnevale’s work out of Georgetown. All assertions without backup to get vocational as what all students are doing in high school. There’s also an NGA report that’s as silly and then a McKinsey report that uses the 3 previous reports of erroneous assumptions as backup. It’s called carrying out each other’s laundry.
I have to run out or I would deal with the other assertions.
This is just School to Work and SCANS all over again just as Common Core is Goals 2000 with a new name.
Ole Guy
December 12th, 2011
6:31 pm
Howbout we concentrate on crossing one bridge at a time. While we seem intent on worrying about the “step #9’s” in the educational progression, we seem to ignore the sad fact that the “step 1’s and 2’s remain woefully unmet. While we worry about such burning concerns as the gradual decline and disappearance of 20th Century career paths, we insist on overlooking the sad travesty that all-too-many kids aren’t yet ready to meet the “demands” of “horse-and-buggy” technology.
A pilot may receive initial training in “old technology” equipment. As the kid MATURES in his profession; in his career path, he undergoes (what we refer to in the military as…) sustained training; as transition training. Things change, technology changes, requirements and demands change…a component of professionalism is KEEPING UP WITH CHANGE.
While there are many who have, over time, suggested that the Ole Guy may be remiss on keeping up with change, perhaps the “popular” pop education du jour, in a panic-induced move to keep up with change, has forgotten that a major ingredient of change remains in the firm understanding of the basic building blocks. The “crawl/walk/run” concept of learning has never rang so true, yet many wish only to forgo the first two elements and “hit the ground running”. This is a perfectly fine concept for those already steeped in the disciplines demanded of one’s career path, however, kids, barely old enough to shave, MUST learn the basic of the basics…just as so many generations have done; there simply are no short cuts.
Everybody, that’s EVERYBODY…needs four years of academic challenge…no GEDs, no “gentlemens’ fingerpainting”, no college-vs-non-college paths.
GD…it, let’s howbout we stop trying to reinvent the wheel!
Anonmom
December 12th, 2011
6:58 pm
We are losing kids left, right and center. The best of our High Schools only graduate about half of the kids who start as freshman. If this program can get half of the rest of them interested in something to keep them in school thorugh graduation and give them some skills with which to make a liviing we should be applauding the program… Right now, Georgia has had a “college or bust” mentality — you make it through math 1, 2 and 3 or you don’t graduate… not much by way of alternatives…. we desperately need alternatives for the non-college bound. Really terrific livings can be made as carpenters, electricians, plumbers, etc. (who really knows what we need like that in 20 yeasrs but we sure don’t need them on the street or in jail). I’m sorry if some kids who should be college bound aren’t tracked that way and get lost but hopefully many more who would drop out find careers that keep them off the public dole and out of jail and maybe that trade off is worth while. With parental involvement, all kids would be on the right track. I did know what I wanted to do at age 13 and that’s where I wound up…. so some kids do actually know which way to go……
pragmatic
December 12th, 2011
8:37 pm
As parents and teachers we want the best for our kids, but yet get upset when students are not ready for admittance into a field of study or do not have required courses to help them into their chosen program of study. Politicians love to blame the school system for not preparing students for life. When actuality it really is all within the parents’ control to set the path for their child. Many if not most parents actually work with their child when the child is 6th, 7th, 8th grade to help their child see areas of personal strength and then show them wide options within their areas of strength. I think many of those students who are 13 and currently unmotivated have parents or important adults who, for whatever reasons, just have not related to their child enough to praise the child on work in certain areas, skills or unique abilities. The adults just allow their child to drift…
Bottom line through: by age 14 a child knows what he/ she is good at, by age 14 a child knows their general interest areas (such as science or literature), and by age 14 a child knows their fundamental skills and talents (like fine arts or technology). Unfortunately though I wager 85% of the boys will say they will be basketball stars or video game designers (like playing the game through controls even does NOT gve them a clue on programming or graphics). That’s the problem with our obession with pop culture and entertainment. Beyond that – Of course students at this age should not point to a specific job or career, but certainly they can look at industries and get an idea on what is important to them and their families. (Examples: Agriculture, Engineering & Technology, Health Care, Retail, etc.) Exposing 7th and 8th graders to this knowledge and assessment is a good thing and might just motivate some of these young people to get more out of their learning and to study harder in areas where they are weak so they can be better prepared.
The problem though: too many of the legislative mandates are driven by politicians with advice from their favorite lobbyist without consulations from those who are in the trenches and those who know what currently works.
ScienceTeacher671
December 12th, 2011
8:41 pm
When I first started teaching, students could joint enroll at a tech school, and graduate HS with a tech school degree — ready to work as soon as they got that diploma. They can do that again now, but have to provide their own transportation to the tech school. The district used to bus them over there.
It would be nice to have some students do that, and let the college preparatory classes really be rigorous college prep.
Katz P. Ajamas
December 12th, 2011
10:14 pm
Elementary and high school is not relevant to anything. If you want kids to learn, you have to do it in a way that addresses their interests and needs. My middle school had a wood shop. It was not a vocational thing, just a class for students who wanted to learn how to make things from wood. We also had a metal shop. Same idea. These ‘tech’ classes taught us the value of math and science if we wanted to make things. In high school, we had a math team. It was great for kids who liked to think about efficient ways to solve problems. I wish my high school had offered automobile mechanics and metal working. I had to learn these on my own. I’m not interested in a career in either area, I just like to fix and make things. It’s stimulating and relaxing at the same time. Back to education. Learning is about filling in a framework, modifying that framework based on what’s been learned, filling it in some more…it’s iterative. The experiential and pleasurable component is what keeps people interested in learning. This is now missing from most formal education. There’s no fun in it. Kids don’t blow things up in chemistry class. They don’t build rockets or make aspirin and then taste it. No. At best, they are allowed to watch videos or play with the equivalent of a two year old’s big soft plastic hammer. It’s boring. This is why our young adults are not producing. Careers? Industry BS designed to enslave. Get a job, get in debt, you’re stuck. Small raises, 30 years, boring job cranking out or selling widgets you don’t understand. Can’t change, can’t afford to. This is where industry and education wants you.
Rural Education
December 13th, 2011
6:06 am
Two things: first no none will have a group of 14 or 15 students, try 26 or 27. Secondly while I can yeah history I have no desire to be a guidance counselor. What will they be doing. As apparent this idea is just stupid. This is why people send their children to private schools.
ScienceTeacher671
December 13th, 2011
6:21 am
We keep tinkering at the high school end when what we really need to do is make sure they have some reading and math skills by the time they leave elementary school. If we could do that, the rest would fall into place.
It would be really nice if scoring “proficient” on the CRCT or whatever we’re going to use meant they were actually at or near grade level.
Mountain Man
December 13th, 2011
7:21 am
We don’t need students to pick a career path by the time they enter high school, but they should have an idea of whether they want to go to college or not. If they are having trouble in basic courses like English and math, they should probably not choose the college route. High school students should then be tracked into college prep or vocational tracks (the way we used to do it). A high school diploma should guarantee only a good basic education – i.e. that you know how to read, how to write, how to do basic math functions, and you know enough history and political science that you know how to function in the real world. Stop trying to make every high school student learn Math 1, 2, and 3. They don’t need it. The ones who are headed to college can take those classes to beef up their college application. The others should concentrate on learning Math 1 and being proficient in it. Bring back the High School graduation test to assure that every student who has a diploma at least knows the basics. Then employers will know that a high school diploma is more than just an attendance record. You should be worrying more about the 50% who drop out of high school rather than trying to make everyone an “elite”.
yep
December 13th, 2011
8:24 am
Dear Dr. Barge.
if I wanted to live in China or Singapore I would move there – please stop trying to emulate other countries’ educational process and focus on the educational system that made this country the greatest. This social engineering process isn’t it.
long time educator
December 13th, 2011
8:29 am
One other thing: tracking should be voluntary. If a student is really poor in math, but insists on enrolling in the college prep math classes, let him. Do not change the class for this student; let him fail OR allow him to work hard, apply himself and catch up. Some kids who are capable will choose the easier track, but that should be their choice. Adults should advise the student and her parents that they feel she is capable of the more challenging track, but it should be her, and her parents, choice. I taught high school English when we still had two tracks, and some lazy, capable students stayed in the general ed track when I thought they should be in college prep. Motivation really does matter and if you force these unmotivated students to take the harder courses they just cause disruption and slow down the students who want to learn. At some point after high school, they may choose to go on to college, but until they are motivated or their parents are determined, it is futile. Giving a choice would definitely help the drop out rate and would also help with discipline.