Principals in New York condemn teacher evaluation process as “education by humiliation”
Michael Winerip has a good online piece in The New York Times about the revolt of principals in New York against the use of student test data to evaluate educators in that state.
The principals are protesting a new evaluation system that the state Department of Education under Commissioner John B. King Jr. has put in place to meet the demands of New York’s federal Race to the Top grant.
As one principal in the story noted, the new evaluation system has accomplished one thing so far; it has united teachers, principals and administrators in their contempt for the state education department.
Also a Race to the Top winner, Georgia will begin to pilot its new teacher/school leadership evaluation tool in January. It, too, will include student performance as a measure of teacher and principal effectiveness. I suspect that we will see the same complaints here, although we have yet to see principals rise up in organized opposition.
In a recent meeting with the Georgia DOE staff charged with launching this system, it was clear to me that they wished they had more time to create, pilot and then review the new evaluation system before it goes statewide, but the Race to the Top pacing does not allow years of testing and tweaking.
It may well be the haste of putting these sweeping reforms in place that will end up undermining the success of Race to the Top. That haste is one of the chief concerns of the New York principals. (I have to note that Georgia is at least piloting its evaluation system for five months; New York had no real pilot, according to this story.)
Here is an excerpt of the Times piece, but please try to read the full piece and the letter itself:
As of last night, 658 principals around the state had signed a letter — 488 of them from Long Island, where the insurrection began — protesting the use of students’ test scores to evaluate teachers’ and principals’ performance.
Their complaints are many: the evaluation system was put together in slapdash fashion, with no pilot program; there are test scores to evaluate only fourth-through-eighth-grade English and math teachers; and New York tests are so unreliable that they had to be rescaled radically last year, with proficiency rates in math and English dropping 25 percentage points overnight.
Mr. Kaplan, who runs one of the highest-achieving schools in the state, has been evaluating teachers since the education commissioner was a teenager. No matter. He is required by Nassau County officials to attend 10 training sessions, as is Carol Burris, the principal of South Side High School here, who was named the 2010 Educator of the Year by the School Administrators Association of New York State.
“It’s education by humiliation,” Mr. Kaplan said. “I’ve never seen teachers and principals so degraded.”
The trainers at these sessions, which are paid for by state and federal grants, have explained that they’re figuring out the new evaluation system as they go. To make the point, they’ve been showing a YouTube video with a fictional crew of mechanics who are having the time of their lives building an airplane in midair. “It was supposed to be funny, but the room went silent,” Ms. Burris said. “These are people’s livelihoods we’re talking about.”
Last year New York was awarded $700 million as one of 11 states, along with the District of Columbia, to win a Race to the Top grant. The application process was chaotic, with Dr. King’s office making the deadline by just a few hours. To win a grant, states had to pledge to follow policy priorities of the Obama administration, like evaluating teachers by student test scores, even though there were no implementation plans yet.
New York committed to an evaluation process that is based 60 percent on principal observations and other subjective measures, and from 20 to 40 percent on state tests, depending on the local district. In written responses to questions, Dr. King said while there are bugs in the system, “we are confident that as the state law on teacher evaluations phases in over the next couple of years, those educators charged with ensuring its successful implementation will do so professionally.”
Asked if he was surprised by the number of principals who had signed, he wrote, “It’s not at all surprising” that the introduction of a new evaluation system “would produce anxiety.”
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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97 comments Add your comment
Beverly Fraud
November 28th, 2011
3:52 pm
Speaking of INTEGRITY aren’t the same people pushing this evaluation system, the same people who came to APS to prop up Beverly Hall politically AFTER the cheating scandal left NO DOUBT that it was systemic, widespread, at went all the way to the TOP?
Yep their actions CLEARLY show “integrity” is a guiding principle for them.
HS Public Teacher
November 28th, 2011
3:53 pm
@Dr. Monica Henson….
I don’t know you or your background. However, your post sounds very “ivory tower” like.
While, yes, what you say is true – it simply is not reality.
The reality is that classroom teachers in Georgia have been stripped of decision making with respect to education. We are labor workers. The reality is that we are not really “professionals” regardless of how we wish to be treated or how we SHOULD be treated.
I have no right, authority, and am not given permission to teach the students in my classroom the best way for my kids. I must teach them the way that the State, the school system, and the school department tells me to teach them. I must give the exact same assessment, teach the exact same material/content on the exact same day, and I must maintain the exact same pace as I am told – regardless of the students in front of me.
I know excellent teachers leaving the profession because they feel that they no longer can help – they are handcuffed by these ridiculous rules.
Right now (and for the foreseeable future), the politicans and administrations are calling all of the shots. And, the classroom teacher is taking all of the blame. I just don’t see this changing in Georgia any time soon…
Note that I am not whinning or complaining. I am simply stating the reality.
Beverly Fraud
November 28th, 2011
4:15 pm
I wonder why no one advocates given teachers the AUTHORITY to hold students TRULY accountable for their actions and behavior doesn’t constitute “integrity”?
After all if you are going to claim “integrity” when you based teacher evals in part or whole on student performance, wouldn’t you want to give teachers ALL THE TOOLS NEEDED so they can perform?
Or do we prefer to make ourselves look foolish by claiming teacher have authority?
Veritas Vincit
November 28th, 2011
4:48 pm
Where to begin…
To those who have never taught and criticize teachers, please, take the GACE tests and join us. Then give us your educated opinion. I happen to work with several individuals who left industry for “summers off” so they could help students. Their worlds were rocked.
Constitutionally this should not be happening but it is. We will not solve that fight right now.
What is going to help the students? That should be asked at the beginning of every discussion concerning education no matter who it is between. Yes, teachers should be assessed and have been assessed. In days long gone a teacher could hide behind tenure and ruin kids education. Are we over reacting because of this? I tend to think so because we are not slowing the pace to find something that works, the federal, state, and local governments are throwing something together to go with populist demand amplified by politicians at every level who have not been in a classroom for decades. This will hopefully weed out the poorly performing teachers, something we need to admit as a profession has to happen before Georgia can climb out of the bottom. But will it cause undue stress for the teachers and the students? It already has. Think about the teacher, good or bad, that fears this component of evaluation. Students tell me that I am a difficult teacher because I make them work and actually learn the material. What will my reviews look like? If I just assigned a research project that requires content knowledge and the students are upset, my evaluations could go down. Perhaps my administration would recognize my rigor and praise me, or not. The cause of the stress is we have not seen how this is going to be pieced together and the effects it will have.
I have been teaching for 11 years in the metro area and worked in “industry” for a decade prior. If you had a toxic industry environment why did you not do anything about it?
NONPC
November 28th, 2011
5:02 pm
When have teachers (as a profession) ever whole-heartedly accepted/endorsed any teacher evaluation process that holds them accountable for performing the job that they are hired to do?
The bottom line, for schools, is that students have a goal of what they are supposed to learn. The measurement of this are (generally) standardized tests. Teachers condemn any process which evaluates them by their students scores on standardized tests…. a test of what they were supposed to have learned from the teacher. Thus, teachers refused to be judged on the very purpose for which they have been hired.
NONPC
November 28th, 2011
5:08 pm
And V makes my point for me:
If there were a way to measure my performance based solely on my effectiveness as a teacher, I wouldn’t mind a bit–but there’s not. No such evaluation exists because it is impossible. There are far too many variables that are beyond the teacher’s control to be able to somehow compile statistics which can determine the teacher’s effectiveness.
Teachers will never accept any evaluation of their performance… ever.
Good Mother
November 28th, 2011
5:38 pm
Listen carefully to this statement from the blog above”….the new evaluation system has accomplished one thing so far; it has united teachers, principals and administrators in their contempt for the state education department.”
Teachers. Principals. Administrators.
No where are parents and students even mentioned.
This is a severe problem with the school system. The system excludes the very people who matter the most — the students and their parents.
All involved on these blogs vehemently agree that parent involvement is the key to a child’s success in school, yet parents and their children are not even considered.
I am a parent and I absolutely want stuent performance as part of a teacher’s and a school’s performance appraisal. Learning is the product. It must be measured. That’s what schools and their employees are paid to do.
Responsibility. Accountability.
It must be a significant factor in the teacher’s, principal’s, administrator’s performance appraisal.
I’ve never had the misfortune of ALWAYS working in severe conditions as Carlosgvv but I can tell you I’ve had enough and carlosgvv is accurate when he says “let them work in the private sector, where they will learn a whole new meaning of the word “humilation”
It is rough out here in the private sector and if you don’t produce results, you are GONE.
To HS Public Teacher from Good Mother
November 28th, 2011
5:43 pm
HS Public Teacher says
“I have no right, authority, and am not given permission to teach the students in my classroom the best way for my kids. I must teach them the way that the State, the school system, and the school department tells me to teach them.”
My experience is very different. I have more than one child. When they were in the same grade, one teacher gave zero homework, the other gave homework every night. Their lessons were also different.
I agree we should have standards and milestones and a daily curriculum. If all teachers were good we wouldn’t need them but we need to be able to weed out the ones who (as they did in my school) sit at their desk and just tell us to read silently to ourselves.
Get Real
November 28th, 2011
5:46 pm
d, you are right about the states writing the grants and going after the federal money. But, try to tell the feds what to do with their No Child Left Behind law and that you don’t want the money and you will be told that you have no choice. Utah and Connecticut both tried to sue the feds over NCLB for that very reason.
Get Real
November 28th, 2011
5:47 pm
So now our teachers are going to be evaluated on things that they have absolutely no control over, such as student attendance. What are they supposed to do? Go to their houses and pick them up on the way to work? Insane.
Tad Jackson
November 28th, 2011
6:04 pm
Here’s how to rate the performance of a teacher …
1. Come into my classroom and sit down and watch me teach for at least an hour … once a month
2. Look at my exams, tests, quizzes, and pop quizzes
3. Look at the sheets I design that explain assignments or essays or other projects
4. Talk to me personally over a cup of real good coffee about what I’m up to in the classroom and how I’m feeling about anything to do with kids and school and parents these days
5. Interview my students about me. Ask them if I make the topics interesting and relevant
6. Interview the parents of my students about me
7. Come along on a field trip and observe me in field trip teacher action
8. Ask other teachers to give you their impression of me as a teacher
http://www.adixiediary.com
NTLB
November 28th, 2011
6:12 pm
Maureen, sorry to call you out on it, but you spelled “humiliation” wrong on this blog’s headline.:)
ScienceTeacher671
November 28th, 2011
6:21 pm
I’ve noticed that in the honors classes, 100% of the students always pass the EOCT. Most of them “exceed expectations.” They do have a really good teacher, but I’d wager that most of those kids would pass the EOCT if it were given on the first day of class. They’re that smart, and the test is that easy.
On the other hand, I have a lot of “at-risk” and special needs students. Some of them haven’t ever passed the entire CRCT, and at least 15% of them have been absent more than 10% of the school year so far. My pass rates are usually pretty good, but they look pretty shabby compared to those of the honors teacher.
My students who fail either “Christmas-tree” the test because they don’t care, or they have been socially promoted with really, really low skill levels. But my pass rates aren’t nearly as good as those of the teacher with honors-level students. Does that mean my evaluations won’t be as good? I don’t know yet, but it worries me.
And some days I think I could do a lot better if people would quit telling me what I have to put on my walls and just let me TEACH!
Dekalbite@carlosgvv
November 28th, 2011
6:51 pm
“And, after working all day in that hostile envrionment, I came home to my CHILDREN, you moron.”
Did you feel this was good for your children? If you had a choice, wouldn’t you like to have a pleasant working environment for the sake of your family?
Children are always impacted by the significant other adults in their life – parents and/or teachers.
That’s not moronic. That’s neuroscience.
Dekalbite
November 28th, 2011
6:57 pm
“As I understand it, the entire state of Georgia did not have to participate in the Race to the Top program. Forsyth, Cobb, and I beleive a couple of other counties “opted out”. ”
Dekalb would not do that because they need the money to fund their non-teaching personnel – more numerous and higher paid than any system except APS.
FYI
November 28th, 2011
7:00 pm
@ NTLB. Those who write the headlines for newspaper articles are different from those who write the articles, as I remember well from working on my high school newspaper. Maureen didn’t write the headline.
(”Evaluation” is spelled wrong too.)
Maureen Downey
November 28th, 2011
7:06 pm
@To all, Thanks. Both evaluation and humiliation are fixed. The problem is a weird kink of late that makes the cursor jump from the text part of the blog as I am writing to the headline field. So, if I am writing the letter “l” in the text at the time, it also gets dropped out of the blue into the headline. I have been catching most of the stray letters, but not all of them.
Not sure why but hope that our new blog tool remedies the problem once it is launched.
Maureen
Public HS Teacher
November 28th, 2011
7:09 pm
@Good Mother -
First, I think your name is funny. Are you trying to convince YOURSELF that you are a “good” mother? Are you trying to tell others you are good? If you are really good, won’t everyone already know that?
Second, you are funny. You want teachers to be evaluated, but you also want each to do the same thing (because it seems that we are all “bad” teachers)? So then, if I simply read the script provided to me – does that make me a “good” teacher? And, if that is true, then why does there need to be any other evaluations for teachers? The administration can just check to see if the teachers are reading their provided scripts and be done – right?
Or, are you now going to change your mind? Are you going to flip-flop? Are you going to say, “well what about”?
I await your response!
Good Memory
November 28th, 2011
7:31 pm
@ Public HS Teacher. You must be pretty new to this blog. GM is a troll who’s been whining (over and over and over…….) about herself, or himself who knows, and bashing teachers as nastily as possible. Don’t feed it.
Eric
November 28th, 2011
7:57 pm
What is the purpose of Race to the Top? Money for state boards of education? Will the obsession and paranoia over student achievement and teacher accountability never end? Please read Jim Arnold’s latest article!
Elementary Teacher
November 28th, 2011
8:05 pm
@ Dr. John Trotter- I have a question off topic for you. PAGE and GAE have both tried to solve this problem and I would like to know what your organization do? The super and principles are making (forcing) the homeroom teachers to eat lunch with their students while the non-homeroom teachers have duty free lunch. Homeroom and non-homeroom teachers have some sort of duty each and every afternoon- well some non-homeroom teachers have duty. This is a problem in every elementary school in a certain system. We take the kids through the lunch line, put them in their seats, open containers, sit down and eat with them. Oh- at least one day (if not more) a week we are with kids from the time they walk in until the time they leave. Before I get flamed let me say I did sometimes eat lunch with my students. When I had the duty free lunch I would often prepare for afternoon activities. Just want to know what you would do!
@ Dont Feed the Good Mother Troll
November 28th, 2011
8:08 pm
It is back again.
Dr. Monica Henson
November 28th, 2011
10:09 pm
No ivory tower here…I started my teaching career in Georgia and spent 11 years in the classroom, earning National Board Certification before moving on to school administration. My teaching experience with high-stakes testing was in Massachusetts with the implementation of the MCAS testing program. I have worked in high-need Title I urban schools, including serving as principal of a 100% dropout recovery high school. My students in Massachusetts scored the highest in the state for three years’ running on the MCAS English tests in 8th grade. These kids were heterogeneously grouped, average 16% special needs, in a blue-collar K-8 school, average class size I taught was 35, in a district where more than 50 languages were spoken by students.
I worked with Dr. King as an administrative intern and consultant at Roxbury Preparatory Charter School in Boston, which he cofounded. As part of my responsibilities, I collaborated with his teachers to refine their English language arts curriculum. Roxbury Prep routinely places in the top 10% in Massachusetts in performance on the MCAS ELA tests. At the time that Dr. King was there, the school enrolled 100% Title I-eligible black and Hispanic middle schoolers.
While much of MCAS is machine-scorable, a substantial proportion of the tests are open-response and writing-based, requiring human scorers. I’d like to see more states move to this type of testing, which I think would be more in line with what Ron recommends. Machine-scorable bubble sheets are far less expensive, which should not be the driving factor in which type of test is administered.
BoyWonder
November 28th, 2011
10:25 pm
Maureen,
A good craftsman never blames his tools!
2nd career teacher
November 28th, 2011
11:50 pm
I can deal with student achievement as an partial assessment of my performance but it must be done correctly. The only tests that would accurate would be pre test and post test of the same material. I am concerned that the state and other lofty towers will use a comparision of easy data like CRCT which does not compare learning over the same set of information therefore it would not include any aspect of student improvement. Portfolios would of course be the best way to determine a child’s progress because so many kids feeeze up on tests, but it is impractical and the powers that be would not trust the source of evaluation – the teachers. That’s right, the teachers. The teachers are the ONLY ones in this whole process of educational improvement that are actually working and slaving to improve the outcome and learning for our future generations. We are the ONLY ones on the ground, but yet are despised because of what we do and not allowed a voice in the process. We are not allowed to voice our opinions and experiences except through anonymous forums like this. Yes, I have been evaluated in business for 20 years and in teaching for 10 years. Both are primarily political and are primarily based upon subjective views of the supervisor. I can tolerate a data based evaluation if it is correct data, but with our current leadership I doubt it would be valid.
Dr. John Trotter
November 29th, 2011
12:03 am
@ Elementary Teacher: If you are a member of MACE, just call the office. We take care of this refusal to honor OCGA 20-2-218 (Duty Free Lunch Law) all the time. I don’t understand why PAGE and or GAE would allow their members to have their rights tramped upon.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
November 29th, 2011
2:32 am
DMH, TJ, ST671, and DJT,
Your insightful comments make me proud to be a teacher- evan an old, washed-up one like me. Ha, ha, ha- I borrowed this. Please forgive me, Doc.
Jezel
November 29th, 2011
7:01 am
Our country for several decades HAD the best public education system in the world. We ranked #1 in student achievement…in math and.in science. During that period the state and Federal department of education was streamline. Schools had maybe a principal and one secretary. There were no formal teacher evaluations.
As the number of administrators increased…student achievement declined. As more paper work for teachers increased..test scores dropped. As class size grew…standardized test scores fell.
Reduce the size and budget of the state dept. of education, put the administrators to work teaching students….reduce class size by 50%…and then see what happens to test scores, graduation rates, discipline problems and all the other ills of our system.
Dr NO / Mr Sunshine
November 29th, 2011
7:41 am
“What you say is total bull and CLEARLY shows that you know NOTHING of the teaching profession.”
Nor do you. Suits me fine if you prefer continuing to be a non-performer, just be equally prepared to get your pink slip.
Here a hint. Get in or get out of the way.
Maureen Downey
November 29th, 2011
8:06 am
@BoyWonder, Good point, although I have to tell you after 25 years in this business, the tools matter more and more as we get beyond the typewriter and ribbon. And when the tools don’t work and you are in a muddle, there is this mysterious and unseen IT help desk that you have to rely on to pull you out of the muck.
Maureen
Ronin
November 29th, 2011
8:35 am
@ Jezel, 7:01, that’s pretty much the tip of the iceberg. The politics of education inhibit teachers from being effective. As with any profession you have those who excel and those who do enough to get by. However, “the process” of delivery needs to be changed.
From reading posts on this blog, it appears that the majority of teachers are fed up with “the process”. Le’ts see, pressure from management (administrators) who are driven by state and federal rules to achieve an outcome based on an opinion from and “expert” in education. It’s a recipe for failure.
@Monica 1:16, your comment: “The whining and complaining about the “quality” of students and parents has got to stop, and we have to face the fact that we must educate them all, and educate them well, if we are going to maintain the middle class in this country. It is insane to assume that 95%+ of all teachers perform at competent levels when so many students are unable to demonstrate minimum levels of skills in reading and mathematics.” ****** I would agree with that statement. You can’t choose your students anymore than you can choose a plaintiff while defending a lawsuit. You work with what is at hand and make the best of it. However, I do believe that the “problem student” theory has become a crutch to many educators, when the real issue is the multiple layers of process and procedure that have no real value in education children.
Streamline the process and eliminate the majority of the process masters/ administrators.
We would be better served by a benevolent dictator in charge of education vs. the current political process used to educate the masses.
Veritas Vincit
November 29th, 2011
9:19 am
For those that continue to comment about teachers but have never taught in a public school go teach or substitute to get a better understanding of teachers. I agree that some teachers use crutches and complain, however their are systemic issues that need to be addressed and open forums like this one are the only avenues for most educators to vent.
Dr. Monica Henson
November 29th, 2011
9:51 am
@Ronin: “Portfolios would of course be the best way to determine a child’s progress because so many kids feeeze up on tests, but it is impractical and the powers that be would not trust the source of evaluation – the teachers.”
I agree that portfolios containing a variety of evidence of student achievement are the best way to determine individual children’s academic progress, but the costs involved to have human judges review and assess them for every student in a state is so prohibitive that I don’t think we’ll ever see that sort of assessment take the place of high-stakes testing. What I do think is doable is what Massachusetts has done: incorporate a substantial percentage of open-response and writing items, requiring human scorers, combined with machine-scored items. It’s more expensive, but it’s more reliable and far less cheatable.
Your latter point, that teachers ought to be the ones entrusted with assessing student progress and the public should take teachers at their word, raises the issue of why they currently are not so entrusted. For decades in this country, teachers were in fact the arbiters. As the student population began to diversify, the nuclear family began to break down as a societal institution, generational poverty took root, inner cities decayed, and all the other external factors began to impact public schools, it became clear that an “A” in one state was nowhere near an “A” in another state. Even within states, within regions, even within school districts and individual schools, passing students along who could not perform at grade level, or even near grade level, was accepted practice. Any teacher in any classroom was allowed to deem any student ready to move on. The private sector and higher education (which has historically reported substantial remediation required of high school graduates when they come to college) have long attested that many students who are awarded high school diplomas do not in fact demonstrate high school-level skills.
If we ever return to teachers being entrusted with the responsibility and authority to decide who will pass and who will graduate, I can’t imagine a return to allowing anyone with a teaching certificate to make those decisions absent any comparison of the teacher’s claim to some objective evidence obtained externally, in order to validate the teacher’s ability to make the claim. The College Board has long provided external testing for Advanced Placement courses. Any AP teacher who routinely awards As and Bs in class but whose students cannot score 3s, 4s, and 5s on the AP exams will not be an AP teacher for very long. I don’t see a problem with requiring a similar type of “quality control” measure in reading and math through the grades. It’s the type of assessment that I see as problematic, not the assessment itself.
HS Public Teacher
November 29th, 2011
11:20 am
Dr NO/Mr. Sunshine….
To continue with the theme – You know absolutely nothing about the topic of education. You call me a “non-performer” and you could not be further from the truth.
You make jabs and stabs and you shoot in the dark. You are completely ignorant and are a fool ranting about things you know nothing about.
Sure, I could list my accomplishments, awards, etc. I could even list my students awards, accomplishments, etc. However, why should I? It would fall you your deaf ears.
If you have any interest in education at all (and you post so often it seems that you do), you really need to get your butt into a classroom and see what it is all about!
To 2nd Career Teacher
November 29th, 2011
11:57 am
Good point. I agree that comparison of per- and post-test results would show student improvement (or lack thereof) and that would be a good measurement for teacher evaluations. In the old days, we called that tracking. Now, for some reason, it’s a dirty word. Anyway, I just wanted to bring up one potential issue with your beautiful plan:
How can you remove the unfair advantage of schools that (as a habit) dispense a practice test right before the exam that looks dang-close to the actual exam? This is not fiction. There is a HS close by that we know does this as a general rule. Their idea of a pre-test is to give the test first as a peek-a-boo and then give it again for real. Grade inflation anyone?
To show how much a disservice this practice is, let me recount what happened to a recent graduate of this HS in my hubby’s college class. Apparently, this “child” was incensed that the TA’s for my husband would not tell the pre-exam study group what was going to be on the exam. The student was so upset that he blogged on the ratemyprofessor site about this “injustice” and down-graded his rating of the class. Normally, my hubby is even-tempered and lets these things wash right over him. This time was different. He blogged back that he, as a general rule, does not show the TA’s the exam before it is given in case they let it slip what it on it. He also stated that everything that was on the exam was discussed over the semester and was “fair game.” Welcome to college!
Ronin
November 29th, 2011
12:28 pm
@Monica 9:51, your comment: “Your latter point, that teachers ought to be the ones entrusted with assessing student progress and the public should take teachers at their word, raises the issue of why they currently are not so entrusted”**** The easiest answer to that is that funding can be affected by a teacher’s professional opinion to pass or fail a child. Those in power will not allow the flow of funding to be determined outside their scope of authority, which, leads to your second point:
” As the student population began to diversify, the nuclear family began to break down as a societal institution, generational poverty took root, inner cities decayed, and all the other external factors began to impact public schools”**** A well meaning but flawed social experiment turned the government into the final arbiter for public/government education, which is directly related to party platforms. To admit that the current education system is a failure is a direct threat to those who champion the cause to maintain the current delivery system.
As you well know, the establishment will do whatever is required to maintain the current program.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: The district school system is a jobs program. Education of children is a secondary function. If anyone wants to make a compelling argument to show otherwise, I’d love to hear it.
All the while, the teacher is left “holding the bag” as the scapegoat.
Observer
November 29th, 2011
12:34 pm
@ HS Public Teacher, 11:20 am.
You comment to Dr.No/Mr. Sunshine, “If you have any interest in education at all (and you post so often it seems that you do)…” But this blog for earnest and dedicated teachers who work their butts off for their students is an irresistible lure for unemployed/retired, cynical trolls who don’t give a flip about education …and not just Dr. No.
HS Math Teacher
November 29th, 2011
5:48 pm
I don’t mind being evaluated partially by standardized test scores so much as I do having them aired out in the press, listing every teacher’s record in the local papers.
If we’re going to jump whole-hog into this type of evaluation process, then in all fairness, students should be treated like products on an assembly line, and teachers should be treated like the assemblers working on the line. Each teacher is responsible for passing forward a quality product. If the “product” is faulty, or doesn’t pass inspection, then it should be sent back.
The private industry folks on here who think teachers should be held accountable are right, and so should students and their parents. Parents will not be able to cajole or bargain to get their kid promoted. Either the kid passes, or he doesn’t.
When upper grade teachers get grade-level students, I don’t think any would mind being evaluated by standardized tests. In fact, I think they would welcome it.
How bout it?
Ronin
November 29th, 2011
7:18 pm
@ HS Math Teacher: your comment: “The private industry folks on here who think teachers should be held accountable are right, and so should students and their parents. Parents will not be able to cajole or bargain to get their kid promoted. Either the kid passes, or he doesn’t.”**** passes or fails works for me. The problem is then how the school is then evaluated.
also: “When upper grade teachers get grade-level students, I don’t think any would mind being evaluated by standardized tests. In fact, I think they would welcome it.********** When a 9th grade teacher gets the leftover baggage from a kid that has been doing substandard work since 2nd grade, it’s too late to solve the problem and then hold that teacher accountable in 9th grade.
ScienceTeacher671
November 29th, 2011
7:34 pm
@Ronin: When a 9th grade teacher gets the leftover baggage from a kid that has been doing substandard work since 2nd grade, it’s too late to solve the problem and then hold that teacher accountable in 9th grade.
Exactly. When I get a student who’s reading and doing math at a 3rd grade level, and hasn’t ever passed the CRCT but has been committee promoted for years and years, it’s highly unlikely that student will pass the EOCT, no matter what efforts I’ve put forth in class.
Mahopinion
November 29th, 2011
7:41 pm
@ HS Teacher-
What astounds ME is how teachers are actually shocked when they themselves are held to standards. How DARE the general public actually expect them to perform their job! It’s so much easier to blame everyone but themselves that they are failing their students. “It’s the parents, it’s the misbehaving student, it’s the administration….”.
I truly hope that the teachers who post on this blog are the minority and not a true representation of the mentality of the teachers in our public schools. Heaven help our students if they are.
HS Math Teacher
November 29th, 2011
8:37 pm
Mahopinion:
I think there are many teachers out there who work very hard, and are truly talented; however, in recent years, policy makers, legislators, pundits, and all kind of experts are trying to affix blame squarely on poor teaching. It’s really not poor teaching that is the problem. Kids with any smarts at all can survive a sub-standard secondary education, and go off to a university and do well.
Anyone with any sense should be able to see what the problem has been for years. The problem is social promotion, and it is a huge problem in schools in the poorer areas of the state. When I went to school, back in the dark ages, we had three tracks: General, Commercial/Technical, & College Preparatory. The knuckleheads, dumb jocks, hot rod hearts, etc. would not go near a college prep class, and wouldn’t slow down progress made by the more serious students. In the 90’s, the general track was taken out. That didn’t present a big problem, in that we still had a track for kids who got “pushed on up through the grades”, and made a pathway for them to graduate without interfering with progress made in college prep classes. Now, vocational/technical track has been done away with, and we’re expected to perform magic and get all these kids on a proficient level. Well, we still have social promotion in the lower grades, and now we have to deal with all these kids who are on various grade levels. There are kids in the 9th grade who have NEVER passed a math course since the 5th grade, but get passed on to us.
I’m not concerned with performance evaluations that are based on things I have some control over. I worked in industrial sales for over ten years, and if I didn’t sell, I didn’t eat. I didn’t have a cushy little administrative job with coffee breaks and 2-hour lunches with a martini-drinking boss. The only two days of the year I ever took off were Christmas & New Year’s Day. I did well for myself; however, I got tired of living up north, and I had always wanted to teach, and thought I could make a difference in the lives of young people. Now, I can’t wait until retirement.
ScienceTeacher671
November 29th, 2011
8:38 pm
@Mahopinion, assuming you are seriously concerned about education and not just here to bash, let me try to explain to you. I teach 9th grade Physical Science. In addition to learning the science content, students have to be able to read and understand the questions on the test, as well as perform basic algebraic calculations to pass the EOCT for this course.
The reading level of the test is approximately 9th grade level, as best I can ascertain. I’m not allowed to look at the test booklet, and the GaDOE will only tell me that it is “appropriate for the grade level and subject matter.” Since 9th grade science textbooks are written at a 9th grade reading level, I conclude that the test must be as well.
The problem is that students who just barely pass the 8th grade reading CRCT are only reading at a 4th or 5th grade level. Students who are committee-promoted may be reading at a 2nd or 3rd grade level, or worse. They may know the concepts if you ask them, but they’ll have trouble reading the test and answering the questions.
Students who just barely pass the 8th grade math CRCT are only able to do math at a 4th or 5th grade level. Students who are committee promoted, again are much lower. Again, they will really struggle with the basic algebra required to solve many of the problems on the test.
I can teach them the concepts if they come to school and give me some effort. Whether or not they’ll be able to read the test questions, do the math, and show they know the concepts is another question altogether.
A Parent's Perspective
November 30th, 2011
10:12 am
I’m not here to bash teachers… even though I’ve met some real losers over the years. My main concern with the evaluation methodology is three-fold:
1. Teachers are set-up to fail by having too many cohorts in the class. Differentiation does not work. Ability grouping would allow teachers to go from 6-7 ability cohorts down to 2-3, which research shows is the maximum number for effective learning.
2. I believe that teacher evaluations should be based on tracking. If the state/counties would allow individual tracking of students, then we could fairly assess whether that teacher was able to have an impact (positive/negative) on the student.
3. Social promotion is definitely a problem. My kids work above grade-level. Nobody benefits when kids working below grade-level are placed in a heterogeneous classroom, most of all those kids who aren’t prepared for that class. Learning, real learning, requires a solid foundation. Passing kids along like a hot potato is NOT the answer. In fact, they should put a feedback loop into the evaluation process whereby the next grade could rate the previous grade’s teachers based on how many hot potatoes where tossed up.
BTW — I’m a parent who actually gives a dang. I not only supplement my kids education, I’m correcting errors/omissions by teachers when I see it. That said, I also support them when they need additional help. Most see the benefit of the relationship. The losers I spoke of earlier… they’re beyond help. And guess what, most parent-grapevines can list these teachers by name and subject area. We don’t need an evaluation tool.
NTLB
December 1st, 2011
7:05 pm
@Parent’s Perspective: Beware of “parent-grapevienes”–they are biased and non objective views and comments. Numerous teachers have been denigrated by the professional defamation of bitter parents.
@ NTLB
December 2nd, 2011
2:22 pm
I understand what you’re saying, but give me some credit here. I’ve been involved with the schools for many years. I’ve even talked with reps on the county and state level. I’ve met with many other involved parents to discuss a multitude of issues. We research EVERYTHING! Our group is well aware of which parents deserve respect for their opinion and which parents needs to be given a deaf-ear to vent into.
My point is that administrators are very fond of supporting their “pets” both to the higher-ups and PTA’s of the world. We’re not fooled. Parents chat with each other and no chat moves faster than the discovery of a nincompoop running a classroom.
NTLB
December 2nd, 2011
8:17 pm
@Parent’s Perspective: I understand your point, however, are the “nincompoops” the administrators or the teachers? From my experience, “nincompoop” teachers exist because “nicompoop” administrators avail. Trust me, if you do your research well, you will find that there are more ineffective administrators than teachers in the world. The ineffectiveness in our schools starts at the top and trickles down to the bottom of the totem pole.