Do schools conceal violent incidents and threats to avoid negative press and parent outrage?
Among the extended family I saw over the holiday was a young relative who is working as a substitute teacher in the Northeast since he can’t find a full-time teaching post. He shared a story that surprised me, and I wanted to run it by folks here.
He was subbing at a low-performing high school that recently had a well-publicized stabbing. A student in his class pulled what he thought was a real gun on him, and they had a standoff for several minutes until the teen put the “gun” away and the teacher tackled him to the floor. It turned out the gun was a toy, and the student received a three-day suspension for the incident.
The substitute teacher was disappointed with the punishment, but said the school wanted to prevent another round of negative press.
Would such an incident be kept quiet in Georgia? Could it go so easily unreported under zero tolerance policies in which students can get suspended for Tweety Bird key chains?
And speaking of keeping things quiet, I heard about two Atlanta high schools being on lock down the week before Thanksgiving due to terrorist threats. Apparently, parents at Grady and the New Schools of Carver were not informed of the threats. The person who mentioned it to me felt the incidents spotlighted a troubling lack of coordination between APS and Atlanta Police.
I plan to ask APS about this Monday. Did anyone in either school community get formal notification of these threats?
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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139 comments Add your comment
drew (former teacher)
November 27th, 2011
9:03 am
Of course incidents like this are concealed. You have to remember, where schools are concerned, it’s ALL about “appearance”. Like a few years ago when a local county superintendent gathered all of her principals together at the beginning of the school year and told them she wanted to see a 10% reduction in office referrals. And just like that, discipline improved by 10%!
carlosgvv
November 27th, 2011
9:06 am
Maureen, we live in increasingly politically correct times. So, don’t look for any truthful explanatations for this from the authorities, and, do look for this kind of behavior to increase.
drew (former teacher)
November 27th, 2011
9:10 am
Just like the recent cheating scandals…had it not been exposed, the students would have “appeared” to have made significant gains. School systems don’t really care if legitimate gains were made….as long as it “appears” that gains were made.
D. Robinson
November 27th, 2011
9:12 am
Ms. Downey:
Tapp Middle School in Powder Springs is a perfect example of a low achieving school that routinely conceals incidents of violence from parents and the community. From my wife 9a former educator there), I have received eyewitness accounts of high achieving, well behaved students being bullied and attacked, a teacher being beaten while trying to intervene when four girls jumped one girl, and another educator required medical attention after she was assualted. We encourage you to bring this issue to light. It would be of great value and assistance to our community.
April
November 27th, 2011
9:14 am
There should be zero tolerance for schools that do not communicate potentially dangerous environments for our children. If the greater concern is negative press over the safety of schools we have another huge problem on our hands. What is the solution? Should school administration be vetted based on the academic performance and safety of previous school positions they’ve held? Do parents need to keep principals, AJC and school board leaders on speed dial to ensure there’s accountability?
Dr. John Trotter
November 27th, 2011
9:32 am
Of course this occurs, Maureen. Bless your heart. You still seem to want to view all things “educational” from rose-colored glasses. Atlanta and DeKalb in particular — systems, by the way, which MACE has publicly described as “gangsta school systems” for years — have swept under the proverbial rug all kinds of violent behaviors, including the wielding of weapons. If you don’t report the egregious conduct, then the public can be fooled into thinking that discipline has actually improved.
The Drew poster talked about a former superintendent who simply issued a fiat to the administrators to reduce the suspensions. It happened. Yes, it was Barbara Pulliam in Clayton County. It happened around the time that three or four students jumped on and beat up a teacher at Forest Park High School. I remember about time MACE picketing at Forest Park High School concerning this situation with the violence and the superintendent’s unconscionable edict. The AJC’s sister company, WSB-TV2, happened to be at the school that day and carried the picket on the evening news.
By the way, I see that Karen Waldon is on the front page of the AJC this morning. Hmm. Through the years, we have only picketed one time in Henry County…at Austin Road Middle School when Waldon was principal. Enough said?
Very Passionate About Our Schools
November 27th, 2011
9:33 am
It also happens on the school buses and the drivers do nothing – they don’t want to get involved and won’t unless a parent goes to the principal, school board and superintendent’s office – then the drivers are called on the carpet over it and keeping it quiet.
Hidden
November 27th, 2011
9:51 am
Yes, and this practice happens everywhere, so I disagree with those who say it’s about political correctness and/or underachieving schools. If anything, schools in wealthier/higher-performing areas are better at cover-ups and engage in them more often.
Last year at least one North Fulton school was on lock-down twice due to threats. Later, a couple of others experienced what may have been copy-cat events; all of it kept very quiet. They have also tried to squelch stories related to abuse of disabled kids the principal arrested for assault. And, why not? Many parents, especially in affluent areas, are more concerned about appearances. Their schools have their tacit approval and cooperation. What parents want is to receive personal, quiet notification without anyone outside of their community learning any details.
(Sshhhh! I can’t believe you asked!)
NW GA Math/Science Teacher
November 27th, 2011
9:57 am
Dr Trotter: The only reason I can’t be sure you’re right about where that was is that I’d bet it could be most places. Certainly happened in the systems I’ve seen, even the better system where I am now. Why is there such a reluctance from systems to correct behaviours? I hear from some administrators who are willing to talk to me that there’s such a culture of fear among boards and superintendents concerning lawsuits. Surely, lawmakers and judges have to be aware of the kinds of people in these schools – or is it that folks who don’t see it up close and personal figure “it’s just kids”? What do people want me, as a classroom teacher, to do about a disruptive and/or unstable kid in class with your kid? Now the harder question – what do you want me to do if YOUR kid is the disruptive one?
Another Math Teacher
November 27th, 2011
10:00 am
“Do schools conceal violent incidents and threats to avoid negative press and parent outrage?”
Is that a serious question? The school I was at concealed many things, even from teachers. They kept a beating from us for months – until a youtube video was publicized.
Another category: sex. There have been 6 instances of a teacher ‘dating’ a student in the last 5 years at the school I at which I worked. One has been made public by the news but not the school. Two teachers had their certificates suspended for two years and left without charges. One was non-renewed. Two left for other systems. One is under arrest. (The one that the news knows about.)
Want to improve discipline? Toss discipline notices in the trash. Teachers realize nothing will happen and stop writing them. Problem solved!
Concerned Citizen
November 27th, 2011
10:00 am
Maureen, If you want a real story, check out what’s going on in Bibb County. MACE can give you some of the story, their compiling a list of teacher concerns. Hiding violent behaviors is only the tip of the iceberg with their new superintendent. There is fighting, grade inflation, illegal hiring practices, etc. There’s a gold mine of a story just waiting to unfold for a journalist brave enough to make it happen. Unfortunately, there are no real journalists left in Macon (or they are too scared to do anything).
yes i am worried
November 27th, 2011
10:01 am
Yes — they do.
Concerned Citizen
November 27th, 2011
10:01 am
Sorry, they’re, not their. Holiday weekend got the grammar.
Dr. John Trotter
November 27th, 2011
10:05 am
Hey Guys: I know that it happens “all over.” I said that it happens “in particular” in Atlanta and DeKalb. I also know that systematic cheating happens “all over.” But, it happens “in particular” in Atlanta and DeKalb. I have never been one who worries “in particular” about being politcally correct.
Dr. John Trotter
November 27th, 2011
10:08 am
@ Concerned Citizen: If I am not mistaking, I think that Mr. Haynes & Crew at MACE are planning an up-coming trip to Macon. I think that I will be visiting too. We might even picket the superintendent on Mulberry Street. Ha! I wonder if the Macon Telegraph (located right around the corner) will cover the picket.
Ronin
November 27th, 2011
10:10 am
Be it violence or drug related activity. Many things happen that don’t make it to the front office or the newspaper. If an incident can be handled without a formal reprimand and the paperwork that goes along with it, so be it. There is no paper trail and everything looks better on on a monthly/yearly report.
The behavior in schools is a microcosm of the dysfunction in our society as a whole. I just returned from Jamaica, which is a third world country, yet all the children attend school in uniforms and the general attitude to education is superior to many areas in the United States. Most Jamaican students appreciate the opportunity to learn and don’t feel that the education process inhibits their social time, or time on their i-pod or smart phone, as they don’t have one.
mountain man
November 27th, 2011
10:15 am
Three days suspension for pulling a “gun” on a teacher? That should have been expulsion from the school system – forever. Probably jail time, too. A student that would do that would pull a real gun, and pull the trigger,
Concerned Parent
November 27th, 2011
10:16 am
School safety and violations have long been swept under the rug. To have too many incidences would warrant a school being placed on the “Unsafe School” list with the state. (Which could ultimately allow for school choice and effect funding allocation) Also, all schools must have an Emergency Preparedness Plan, and practice those codes Red, Yellow, and so forth. This doesn’t happen, nor is communication sent home by school officials regarding code calls or lockdowns. I dare say there is one school in the entire state that is PROACTIVE in safety and are more REACTIVE in all knee jerk reactions to such.
We had a student bring a pistol (unloaded) to school and it was hidden under a piece of furniture for a week, until others came forward that knew. Our parents never got notices, the student was expelled, the gun belonged to the parent. When I found out and did some research, I attended the next school board meeting and told our elected officials and Superintendent exactly what I thought and reminded them that Justice is not Justice if you are dead. I wish I had videoed their reaction, they were speechless that someone knew a little more than they thought parents did. End of story. Thank God not another Columbine, as many other schools have escaped relatively the same instances.
Do we want to mention that the schools received funds from the Safe School and Drug Free Grants? How we spend thousands of dollars in tax money to install security camera and yet, no one monitors them or the images are captured in digital increments of 10-15 seconds? Then there is the DOJ COPS in School grant programs that we can utilize if approved. Usually these grants come with terms such as paying for an officers (entry level) salary for three years with the fourth year being paid by the school system. It reminds me of double taxation, and supplanting of funds, because when this is done, your schools system is “buying” a slice of the pie. Therefore things are KEPT QUIET.
CLM72
November 27th, 2011
10:17 am
Concerned Citizen…you are dead on about the troubles brewing in Macon – Bibb County Schools are sitting on a powder keg while playing with a flint stone. Their new superintendent is a doozie…
Lots and lots of crazy stuff is swept under the rug in the schools, from issues of violence to teacher concerns about educational decisions. Principals DO NOT WANT any negative attention, whether from the press, parents, or (especially) the COUNTY OFFICE………
chatarri
November 27th, 2011
10:18 am
This is what taking discipline out of the teachers hands has rendered. That, along with tying money to test scores. The final blow – parents who don’t parent or get involved with their kids education – who believe every thing the students say and do not support the teachers. Students need to be “ability grouped” – we’re creating mediocracy by lumping them all together. Why don’t you investigate the number of students who have IEP’s & what a drain that actually is on the system?
Of Course
November 27th, 2011
10:31 am
A kid brought a gun to Fulton Science Academy this past fall. It was kept very quiet, but it happened.
Ole Guy
November 27th, 2011
10:46 am
BRING BACK THE WOOD! It worked just fine for over 200 years; now that we have become obsessed with pleasing the pc gods, all hell, on all fronts, breaks loose. And don’t nobody start in with the “you’ve gotta educate yourself on today’s realities” crap. Every time I read that reply, I read the reply of a loser mentality…a society too damn scared…scared of eachother, themselves, their kids…to do the right thing. Far better to do the EASY things/the POPULAR things, than risk being the boogy man. You people who claim expertise in the education circus should be ashamed.
Ronin’s observations of that (so-called) 3rd world country spell out one truism which has all but ruined the Red White and Blue…WE GIVE THESE DAMN KIDS TOO DAMN MUCH AND WE EXPECT TOO DAMN LITTLE, IF ANYTHING, IN RETURN.
When people, WITH GUTS, DISCIPLINE AND FORTITUE, step up to the plate, we just might see the beginings of a slow recovery. Until then, we’ll continue to see more of the same crap: idiot kids, with idiot parents, who cannot count on their fingers without the motivation of instant reward, kids who don’t have the internal drive to educate themselves, kids, AND ADULTS, who can’t conduct themselves within a society.
IT ALL STARTS WITH THE WOOD!
Ole Guy
November 27th, 2011
10:53 am
Take a close look at that figure at the top right of this page…a (presumably) teacher hiding behind the desk. That sad figure spell the entire sorry picture. Keep on complaining, pontificating, and a few other things too foul for polite company.
Jimmy
November 27th, 2011
10:56 am
I have stories from a county east of Atlanta that would curl your toes. And what makes it worse is the principal of one of the high schools had a fling with the associate super and got pregnant and now they are married, so essentially she can get away with it easier now. She swept a lot of stuff under the rug and forced several teachers out who didn’t “follow the party line.” There were threats against teachers, teachers having affairs with students, cheating on standardized tests, gang violence, weapons and drugs rampant on campus….. all swept under the rug because of image.
Dunwoody Mom
November 27th, 2011
11:04 am
In this world of smartphones, twitter and Facebook, I would imaging it would be hard to conceal this. Students would certainly take pictures or film such incidents.
Jimmy
November 27th, 2011
11:13 am
Interesting that you bring that up, because that is one of the FIRST and only things administrators address. I have seen numerous brawls at school, and the only people who are punished are the ones who record it on their phones. I witnessed a huge fight between two students waiting for the buses and after the fight was broken up the two students were put on their buses but the students who recorded it were escorted by the cop to the office so they could seize the phones, view and delete the content, The word is out that if you record and/or post incidents your punishment is MUCH worse that someone who actually commits the major offenses.
@dunwoodymom
November 27th, 2011
11:13 am
I’ve heard stories from parents called to come pick up their child’s phone after these types of incidents, some occurring at school and some not. Even when things happen during private time/private property, some schools are bringing students into the office and demanding to read texts, see photos and video…of any incident where the child has knowledge or a friendship, having participated or not. I’ve also been told some administrators demand that students make a written statement (!) without parent or counsel available to them. Now, there’s a scandal in the making. Frightened and intimidated parents keep quiet so their students don’t suffer further retaliation or embarrassment.
iTeach
November 27th, 2011
11:38 am
Four out of six years I taught at a top North Fulton affluent high school, the following events occurred:
–A teacher resigned for having drugs in his car (he is currently teaching in another county)
–A teacher had inappropriate relations with another student (2 different teachers, two consecutive years)!
–A former principal had two formal complaints filed against her, only to “retire” the following year
–Another former principal “resigned” (cough)- was demoted – to an Assistant Principal somewhere else in the county after he realized he couldn’t handle his principalship for only 6 MONTHS!
– The current principal (a former Assistant Principal who was not recommended by the teachers and PTSA) is working very hard to boost low teacher morale – as she is the fifth principal in a school that has only been open for eight years.
I suspect when Cambridge HS will open next year, the remaining teachers will flock to charter the new school. Myself and other teachers have already left- willingly. Many more will follow.
Does anyone else see a problem here? Why hasn’t the AJC published a story about the inner corruption in the supposedly fabulous North Fulton Schools?
Lee
November 27th, 2011
11:38 am
“Would such an incident be kept quiet in Georgia? Could it under our zero tolerance policies where students get suspended for Tweety Bird key chains?”
Nice try, Maureen. Although, when we blog about the Tweety Bird incident, it is ususally in the context of poor judgement by administrators – not how they are getting tough on discipline.
Probably the most common form of violent incident cover-up occurs when one student is attacked by another and defends themself. School officials do not try to ascertain facts about the incident and just call it a “fight” and suspend both students for three days. Three day suspension falls below the requirements of a tribunal and the victim is railroaded into a punishment they didn’t deserve. But, the school avoided recording an incident that would count toward getting them classified as a “dangerous” school. Too many of those and administrators get moved.
In the end, the non-aggressor student get victimized twice. Once by the attacker and again by the school.
kitty
November 27th, 2011
11:46 am
Yep, I believe all of that. Worked in a school where young boy kept biting, spitting, kicking teacher/paraprofessionals. They had to continue to put up with it till the child committed these acts against the principal. That is when student got suspended. Allowed back to school — continued behavior by becoming violent towards teachers, you guessed it, lashed out at principal. Suspended again. Students & teachers need protection against these sociopaths. All of a sudden, they are older and the parents pretend they don’t know about previous misbehavior. Schools are not doing anyone any favors by turning their heads.
Maureen Downey
November 27th, 2011
11:50 am
@Dunwoody, Given the omnipresence of cell phones with cameras and video and the instant reach of Twitter, I am not surprised that schools don’t report incidents, but I am surprised that the students themselves don’t spread the word. It would seem nearly impossible for a school to conceal a hallway fight or classroom brawl if more than three students were present.
Maureen
(I am interested in the comments here that schools are confiscating phones to prevent video from airing — but I wonder if part of that is the desire not to see the stuff on YouTube where kids could make cruel and idiotic comments, such as the kids did earlier this month from Westlake High. I will talk to the news folks about this issue.)
Maureen Downey
November 27th, 2011
11:56 am
@jimmy, Which system?
Maureen
NW GA Math/Science Teacher
November 27th, 2011
12:02 pm
After these posts I went to try to find stuff. Before Thanksgiving break, we had 29 fights (I know, that’s a lot). Searched youtube, google, twitter, and facebook. Found one video from two years ago that might be from our HS (similar name in another state). So, they are successfully keeping it off – but how? I certainly may not be the best at navigating FB and Twitter, but I was surprised to find nothing.
Larry Major
November 27th, 2011
12:04 pm
It doesn’t matter that the gun wasn’t real; it is still a weapon if it is used to make a threat, and THAT is a felony.
So, how did this school hush up the police report?
Maureen Downey
November 27th, 2011
12:12 pm
@Larry, It was not reported to the police.
Maureen
Digger
November 27th, 2011
12:17 pm
Administrators are scared to death of appearing racist so they want no paper trail documenting certain groups’ disruptive behavior. Teachers are left to deal with it in the classrooms, which drags achievement down for everyone. And here we are! Dumb and dumber!
K
November 27th, 2011
12:20 pm
From what I’ve heard at the elementary level part of the problem is that when these kids get suspended they end up at home having fun(video games all day – sleeping, etc.) The problem really is with the parents – or lack of parenting in general. If the teachers and administration could “Fire” these students then maybe things would change. When did the administration lose this control ? I remember students getting expelled for much less than what is put up with today.
Ateacher
November 27th, 2011
12:23 pm
As a teacher, I’ve actually had administrators destroy original discipline referrals and rewrite and recode the infraction in order to avoid reporting the truth. One, in particular, was hit in the face with a plastic tray in the cafeteria this year during a food fight – I’d call that karma. You can’t ignore discipline problems and expect them to simply go away. Of course, this same principal turned around and held a mandatory faculty meeting and basically blamed the teachers for failing to support the administration in helping to maintain order and discipline in the school.
Prof
November 27th, 2011
12:30 pm
@ Maureen.
I smell another excellent series of news stories by AJC’s investigative reporters.
Andre
November 27th, 2011
12:47 pm
Please don’t be naive when it comes to troubling issues in our public schools. They’re getting money from the taxpayers. The slightest piece of negative publicy can ruin a school system in the media. Hence APS. I’m sure most people wouldn’t even think about enrolling their kids into Atlanta schools. Bomb threats, fights, shooting, weapons brought to schools. I graduated from Fayette County schools and there were plenty of things that went on that did not make the news. Sometimes a letter may have been sent home, other times, it was just kept quiet.
Digger
November 27th, 2011
12:54 pm
Take a walk in the halls between classes in some of these schools. Feel the change in your heart rate as your body subconsciously goes into ‘fight or flight’ response.
___
November 27th, 2011
12:55 pm
You’re not going to find those videos on youtube; they’re on facebook where you have to have permission to access them.
Insider
November 27th, 2011
12:56 pm
Where have you been? This also happens a lot in high performing schools!! Many things are hidden by schools. Check how athletes stay on the field! Ever wonder why some top athletes never go to top colleges or to college at all… Its all about perception.
@Dekalbite@Maureen
November 27th, 2011
1:01 pm
Why didn’t your young relative press charges? If the administration did not call the police, the teacher should have. A teacher is not just responsible for his/her safety. Rather, a teacher is ultimately responsible for the safety of every one of his/her students. The students’ safety is more important than their academic progress. If the administration does not act responsibly, the teacher must do whatever is necessary in order to ensure students are safe.
Jimmy
November 27th, 2011
1:09 pm
@Maureen- Newton County. Dozens of discipline issues have gone unreported or filed because of image issues. Also, several issues with GHSGT and EOCT improper procedures being followed that the admin and the county officials knew about but teachers were bullied into resigning or threatened with firing if they said anything and all just disappeared. It even went all the way up to the state office and an investigation was supposedly opened but it quickly went away too. I can’t tell you how many discipline referrals ended up in the trash can, and I’m not talking about minor things- I’m talking major offenses.
Response to Maureen
November 27th, 2011
1:13 pm
Regarding the fights & video, students are very aware and do talk. They don’t always share with parents. If I recall correctly, when my children attended a local school, the rule was that if a fight started, any nearby students were required to disperse immediately or be considered part of the problem. If they were caught watching a fight, they were suspended along with the two kids fighting.
Parents have whispered for many years about students being caught with pictures or video on their phones related to fighting or nudity. Keeping in mind the prevalence of smart phones, students are often in possession of information and media originating in email, on facebook or text messages; some of it un-requested. In one instance, a student claimed to have been punished for video of a fight that happened off campus and on the weekend.
I suppose you could conceivably text an inappropriate photo to a student and then go report it to an administrator, resulting in their punishment? Even if a student is caught with something on their phone that shouldn’t be there, it seems highly irresponsible (not sure about the legality) for the schools to ask students (usually minors) to make a written statement prior to parents arriving, even if only to “straighten things out” or “gain a better understanding”
Parents will always keep this kind of thing quiet in order to protect their children’s reputation, so school administrators know they will rarely, if ever, be challenged.
Jenny
November 27th, 2011
1:14 pm
Being that this column has a net sub-zero effect on education, I’d say bury it.
There is no greater drain on education than the power given the community by an entertainment driven media. In the days of ‘journalism’ – long gone for sure – the is space, this blog, at best might have seen life with The Enquirer.
1. Using a substitute teacher as the driving force of your ‘article’ underscores my point.
2. The ‘tweetie-bird’ chain was 12″ long, thus violating the very demands made by the communities following the media’s fanning of the Columbine murders. This case merely gave the public what it had demanded and then they dumped it on the school when they saw the idiocy of their own wishes.
Ever wonder why the media and the community fervor it stirs for entertainment purposes are left out of the decisions made by the surgeons in our operating rooms?
Ever wonder why NFL teams don’t base their game decisions on what the community and the local writers think they ought to do?
Because when you want/need it done right, you ask the people who are qualified to make decisions. It’s called ‘credibility.’
The ills of education stem from a lack of such filter.
Arlen
November 27th, 2011
1:17 pm
There is a Language Arts teacher at a high school in the *SOUTH*ern part of *GWINNETT* county who recently was arrested for his second DUI (marijuana)! This wasn’t publicized either, but everyone knew about it the very next morning.
Jimmy
November 27th, 2011
1:20 pm
@Jenny, Are you really that dense? First of all it is a blog entry, not a news article. Second of all, does it matter that it was a sub? The sub witnessed something, and it doesn’t matter if it was a parent, a sub, a janitor, etc. Third, plenty of current and former teachers are on here backing up what we all pretty much know happens. And finally, it DOES have an effect on education. A child can’t receive a decent education if real problems are being swept under the rug in favor of image. I have always maintained, if you deal with the problems then the rest takes care of itself. Our schools and our schools will improve if we simply get tough on some of these problems, big or small. When you ignore the small issues they eventually become big ones in schools. You may not like relying on the media to bring attention to the ills in our education system but I can tell you from experience that if you wait for the administrators and suits making six figures to make change then that change will NEVER come.
Digger
November 27th, 2011
1:20 pm
He wanted to be on the same level as his students.
Central Office staffer
November 27th, 2011
1:24 pm
@Jenny, If you don’t believe school administrators are influenced by blogs, you’re out of touch with reality. I work in a large system and they are very, very attentive to what is written here. See how quickly DeKalb responded;
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2011/11/11/now-it-appears-dekalb-is-not-filling-high-paid-secretarys-slot-after-edict-from-new-school-chief/
cris
November 27th, 2011
1:27 pm
I’m of two minds about this subject…should these things be swept under the rug? No, but remember, for the most part, we are dealing with juveniles…and like it or not there are legal privacy issues that have to be followed. It’s frustrating as a teacher to be told that fights, drugs,etc. have happened, been found and not know who needs to be kept “under thumb”. (Not that you can’t find out from the students most of the time.) And the school I’m at constantly has to deal with large hispanic population=lots of gang activity…which is simply untrue. Yes, we have gang members, but they are usually kept under close eye by the school resource officer and are dealt with swiftly and quietly to avoid “free advertising” to interested students. Of course, if a student has made threats or shown violence in the past, it would be much more practical to let the teachers know ahead of time so at least situations that might escalate more of the same behavior can be avoided and/or prepared for.
Fed Up!
November 27th, 2011
1:33 pm
Maureen…PLEASE stop acting so oblivious!!!! You definitely live in a ’sheltered’ box! ‘Bad’ things happen in ALL types of school. OH by the way…said school in your blog graduate students from very well to do families and receive scholarships to Ivy League schools!!! Stop stereotyping…oh wait – that is your norm.
let teachers teach
November 27th, 2011
1:39 pm
Ed Heatley does and says things to principals that should be reported. Blast him on you tube.
Ernest
November 27th, 2011
1:40 pm
To directly answer the question from this blog, the answer is yes. Back in 2003 the AJC reported that Gwinnett County under-reported over 40,000 disciplinary incidents to the state. As a reminder, there is a state-mandated discipline report that can determine AYP status on the ‘danger’ level of a school and district. This can impact the perception level of a community and negatively impact economic development opportunities. Make no mistake, all school districts have their ’skeletons’ however at different levels. Sometimes it comes down to how those in power influence public reporting of any negative stories.
In Gwinnett’s case, it opened everyone’s eyes to the inconsistent manner in how various incidents are counted. Not sure if this has been corrected but at the same time, I question if anyone has done any analysis to see.
I got below from Dr. Trotter’s website on the Gwinnett incident:
http://www.theteachersadvocate.com/id34.html
BibbTeacher
November 27th, 2011
1:46 pm
Yes it does happen all too often, the reason, numbers. For some reason, those higher up in education see student discipline such as out-of-school, and in-school suspensions as a negative reflection on a school. The thought (while deceptively correct) is that students cannot learn out of the classroom. The truth is that students in a disruptive class learn less. So administrators are picking and choosing when, who and what to report.
Ie. the overage student I sent to the office for “Wait lil’ man I’m capin your —” was sent back to the room after administrative counseling – two weeks later he was arrested for a fatal shooting. The student that threatend a teacher in September, was moved to another class with no other action taken – in jail for armed robbery. The five empty seats in my class are all due to real police work outside.
Do we really need that Federal money for students that endlessly disrupt classes or consistantly assault others? Why are we playing Russan Roulette with other peoples children? Answer- administrators are being graded on how many seats they keep bodies (not students) in and how little is brought to light.
Maureen Downey
November 27th, 2011
1:50 pm
@Fed, The issue isn’t bad things happening; the issue is whether parents are alerted to those “bad things.” Not sure why you see stereotyping of any sort in asking whether parents at two APS high schools were notified of recent terroristic threats received by the schools.
Maureen
mountain man
November 27th, 2011
1:52 pm
And as I have said repeatedly, discipline (or lack thereof) is one of the major unaddressed problems in education today. Especially at low-SES schools.
?
November 27th, 2011
1:54 pm
@BibbTeacher: What federal money and to which students are you referring? Is there something you know about funding that the rest of us should understand?
Ole Guy
November 27th, 2011
1:57 pm
Fed Up, don’t be so hard on the lady…she’s simply bringing, to light, some very serious issues which need both public attention AND public action.
Graduating from high school and receiving scholarships to the Ivy Leagues is, in and of itself, not a big deal. The big deal lies in GRADUATING…ON TIME. Given the propensity of dumbed down educations, the handing out of academic accolades like candy at a Christmas Party, and the degree to which the educational power elite has allowed parental pressure to enter into the equation, the school system has apparently done a magnificent job in bamboozeling STUPID PEOPLE, LIKE YOU, into thinking that all is well.
Contrary to your “HEAD-IN-THE-SAND, DON’T-BOTHER-ME-WITH-DETAILS” outlook, Maureen is simply exposing some of the shameful practices, within the educational circus, which a highly mis-informed and ignorant public…EXEMPLIFIED BY YOU…should be made aware of.
It would seem that YOU, Fed Up, are the oblivious party. Unfortunately, you seem to be accompanied by far too many whose goals seem to lie along the lines of complaining, pontificating, and blaming the bearor of bad news.
Marietta Boomer
November 27th, 2011
2:00 pm
Thanks for this article, Maureen, but anybody who can read knows that public schools are trash today.
A friend’s child was strangled until he passed out by a group of bullies (Marietta public school). No punishment or publicity. The child was permanent scarred, needed continuous therapy (who wouldn’t!) and had to move to another school.
It’s been clear for sometime (like decades) that either you send your metro Atlanta child to public schools (particularly middle and high school) or you are endangering them now and in the future (no education). If you can’t afford private school, then why are you having kids, Georgia?
BAD PARENTS = major part of all of today’s problems in the U.S. If you can’t bring them up properly or pay to educate and feed them, then it is IMMORAL to have children in the first place.
Prof
November 27th, 2011
2:05 pm
“Jenny” sounds like a principal at a school that has buried such discipline problems. What is remarkable here is that so many teachers and parents from so many school districts have their own similar stories to tell: first-hand witnesses who could contact the AJC later (and be promised anonymity).
Somehow, this culture of concealed student violence by schools seems related to the schools’ cheating scandal also concealed for so long.
Maureen Downey
November 27th, 2011
2:06 pm
@marietta, Did the parents call police?
Maureen
Joan
November 27th, 2011
2:11 pm
Most of the cover-up’s I hear about are special needs children being restrained and put in seclusion. This seems to be a well hidden secret that school districts do not want to be out in the open.
Maureen Downey
November 27th, 2011
2:12 pm
@Prof, There is a story here, but it will take whistleblowers as the common theme here is that records are not kept. I have looked at discipline reports in the past — those collected by DOE from districts but not verified due to lack of staff — and there are wide disparities. But even within schools, there are vast differences in how many discipline referrals teachers make.
The teachers who are better at defusing problems and handling challenging kids tell me that they end up getting more of these kids placed in their classes. So, they end up being punished for being better at handling disruptive kids.
Maureen
Shiloh Parent
November 27th, 2011
2:16 pm
Maureen, gun confiscated at Shiloh HS. Not public. Fights everyday. Gang activity. Now the principal looking for a promotion. Teachers having an affair with a student. Kids hang around the school till 6-7 pm without any supervision. Drug deals happening. Shiloh is a joke. Admin is a joke except for one white asst principal and AP C.Doug. They hire a 4′10 AP. what fight can he stop? Answer none. Someone said they shut down school sponsored activities because of an outside sports activity. Someone rented the gym. Don’t know how true but it came from someone I know.
Maureen Downey
November 27th, 2011
2:20 pm
@Joan, Certainly, the recent Fulton case in which at six children were reportedly abused by a special ed teacher was chilling. (Thanks to all the folks who sent me links to this story.)
I think that is why this issue is complicated. The cover-ups go both ways.
CBS Atlanta did extensive reporting on this. You can watch some of it here. I will also put up an AJC link, but am on vacation today and cannot access our archives from where I am to pull up the news story.
http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/15286066/exclusive-parents-say-fulton-covered-up-student-abuse.
Maureen
Professor Fate
November 27th, 2011
2:20 pm
The problems is GIGO (”Garbage in / garbage out”), pure and simple. Garbage parents maintain garbage home environments, that produce garbage kids, that turn their schools into garbage institutions. If a kid sees the adults in their lives constantly fighting (or worse, shooting at someone) every time they feel “disrespected” (and why these people should be respected in the first place is beyond me), how else are they going to act? Is that the kids’ faults? No, it’s the parents’. We can spend millions and millions more on the kids, and have little to no impact — its the parents (or, rather, lack thereof) who have ruined them, often beyond repair.
Prof
November 27th, 2011
2:21 pm
@ Maureen. Must such whistleblowers have their names publicly revealed? Some of the bloggers here are teachers who have direct knowledge of the violent incidents.
Maureen Downey
November 27th, 2011
2:29 pm
@Prof, No, people can speak to reporters off the record.
Maureen
Lee
November 27th, 2011
2:30 pm
@Maureen, re: “Did the parents call the police?”
That’s another dirty secret that most parents do not discover until their child gets caught up in the backwash.
If an incident happens at school and the school administration did not call the police, they will rarely (if ever) do anything. They will “defer to school administration” and if the parent pushes the issue, they often find themselves fighting the administration on the issue.
Atlanta mom
November 27th, 2011
2:44 pm
“I heard about two Atlanta high schools being on lock down the week before Thanksgiving due to terrorist threats. Apparently, parents at Grady and the New Schools of Carver were not informed of the threats. ”
Exactly what where the parents supposed to be informed about? Presumably the threats were checked out and found to be a prank. As usual. Do you know how many fire alarms are pulled in the springtime? Either because a student has a test, or it’s a beautiful day and some child wants some outside time?
Maureen Downey
November 27th, 2011
2:47 pm
@Atlanta, I think these incidents rose to a more menacing level. And, while the threats were proven to be unfounded, I think the concern is the response before that was ascertained.
Maureen
Do schools conceal violent incidents and threats to avoid negative press and … – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Driver Safety Courses
November 27th, 2011
2:48 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Ole Guy
November 27th, 2011
2:50 pm
Prof Fate, like many, you have most-eloquently stated the problem, but faded away at suggesting anything resembling a solution…WHY?! Because any-and-all EFFECTIVE solutions would be both non-pc and unpopular within a society which has, effectively painted self into a corner created by years of ignoring issues.
Are these issues kids’ faults? You say no…at some point in time, these kids will grow, chronologically, at least, into adults and, more than likely, parents who, like THEIR folks, don’t give a crap. So just exactly where/when does the adult world start preparing kids for the adult responsibilities which they will surely encounter? Are kids simply to have no responsibilities/no consequences imposed upon them simply because they have yet to reach a certain age?
While it is certainly the easiest course of (in)action to simply write off the problems to causes over which the schools have absolutely no control, the HARDEST…the MOST UN-PC…the MOST POTENTIALLY CAREER-THREATENING courses of action remain untouched…placed in the closet of “If-I-ignore-the-problem-maybe-it-will-go-away”.
You can blame parents…AND YOU ARE 100% correct…but that, alone, will accomplish absolutely nothing. HOLD KIDS FULLY ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS, PERFORMANCE, and BEHAVIOR. Otherwise, we can all expect the same ole _ hit well into the future.
@KSUDorm
November 27th, 2011
2:50 pm
When I was Lassiter, administrators did a good job of letting students know what was happening. Announcements were made over the P.A. system. E-mails were sent as warranted. As a student, I never felt like things were hidden – and neither did my parents. Now that I’m at Kennesaw State (http://bit.ly/tuXpX8), I feel very much the same. Incidents are posted as e-mails to the general student population. I guess it varies from place to place, often dictated by the adults in charge and their motivations. Are they pushed by the desire for promotions over the well-being of kids? Are they inspired doing what is right, no matter the reflection on their careers?
Atlanta mom
November 27th, 2011
3:03 pm
Maureen,
I don’t understand what is to be gained by informing the parents of a non-existent threat. 500 parents descending upon a school while a threat is being investigated is not an optimal situation. And, evacuating the building for hours on end, while every classroom is checked, it a formula for more prank calls.
Teacher Reader
November 27th, 2011
3:06 pm
How can we stop this from happening? Do we need a Georgia State Wide Blog like the Dekalb County Blog to make incidents out in the open and the public aware? I am not sure that even parents really realize the magnitude of problems and how they are swept under the rug, and only begin to realize when their child is effected in some way.
As a former teacher, the discipline in our schools is lacking. However, the discipline in many homes is also lacking. Ole Guy is right, until the children at all levels are held accountable for their actions, nothing will change and our society will continue to go down hill. Very few kids have little idea of how to work for what they want and have found that demanding what they want will get it for them.
Our schools are a mess, and I am not sure how they can be cleaned up. I know that my child cannot attend our local public school and realize that moving will bring other issues at a new school. Our public schools are to me magnify the problems of society, and too many are with blinders on. I do hope that this sparks some investigating by the media, but sadly I have a feeling that it will fizzle.
Teacher Reader
November 27th, 2011
3:09 pm
@ Atlanta Mom, My child is my responsibility 24 hours a day. I want to know if a bomb threat took place and what happened while the threat was being investigated. Maybe it’s just me, but as I parent, I don’t think that my responsibility ends when my child is in school. I have a right to determine if the school is a place where I want my child and if my child is being educated for the hours that he is in school.
RJ
November 27th, 2011
3:10 pm
Maureen,
Schools don’t want to be on the unsafe schools list, so they hide lots of incidents. In my school, it’s so rare that a child is disciplined by administration that most teachers just don’t bother to write kids up anymore. Kids can curse at their teachers, bully other students, fight, etc and nothing is ever done. This is an elementary school! It’s absolutely ridiculous!
Woody
November 27th, 2011
3:18 pm
I’m curious, because I don’t know, do teachers typically receive training at ed school on how to maintain order in a random group of 30 people? What sort of training is that? Or are they thrown to the wolves in the coliseum, the better to provide entertainment? How about principals? Do they get training in how to control 1000+ people confined to a building? Honest, just asking.
One parents inside perspective
November 27th, 2011
3:22 pm
A few years ago a Gwinnett teacher was having a very open relationship with a boy in my neighborhood. A few neighbors contacted the principal. The relationship continued. Last year my child’s Latin teach “quit” in the middle of the year divorce/relationship with student. Those students were without a qualified teacher that rest of the school year. Students that waste days of learning with unqualified sub. teachers. It is basically a free for all in the classrooms and hallways. The students are bullied and the teachers have their own little social clicks. As if they are reliving their high school days except now they have power. Bottom line not in my neighborhood property values would drop but, now with the economy and foreclosure rate who cares let it all spill out.
NTLB
November 27th, 2011
3:23 pm
@Maureen—YES, they do hide violent and unsafe incidents ALL THE TIME due to ramifications of not making AYP and negative publicity. I found out about students trying to commit suicide in our school’s (a North Fulton county high school) restrooms via the school custodians. Maureen, if you really want to the details on how unsafe a school is, just go ask any school custodian in that building.
oldtimer
November 27th, 2011
3:27 pm
Things are covered up all the time. I once worked for an administrator who wanted NO one sent to the office. We were to write the referral and they would get to it when they could. We were never to call the police officer. If needed office staff would do that. So even if we had fights etc. We called the office and “they” handled it. One year latter, I retired.
oldtimer
November 27th, 2011
3:28 pm
NTLB is sure correct…or the school secretary.
Jenny
November 27th, 2011
3:44 pm
Central Office staffer
November 27th, 2011
1:24 pm
‘@Jenny, If you don’t believe school administrators are influenced by blogs, you’re out of touch with reality.’
It was exactly my point that schools DO sway to the breeze of uninformed blogs like this – that’s the problem.
That you are part of this blog and have a reading comprehension level of an ant further proves my point.
Leadership is paramount to the success of any enterprise. That the spineless drivel on here can influence decision making is devastating to the education of our children.
Call in the experts.
Merry Christmas
Teacher Reader
November 27th, 2011
3:50 pm
@ Woody Students are taught psychology and how to “use it” to run their classroom. Most classroom discipline is learned while student teaching, or at least that was my experience. There are things that as a teacher I could handle on my own, but when there is violence teachers should not have to deal with that.
As a pregnant classroom teacher, I was threatened by a student to punch my stomach in the hopes of killing my unborn child, because she did not like that I did not allow her to run my classroom. I was told that I was the problem and that she needed more responsibility. Something that still baffles me. I don’t think that students who make threats because they don’t get what they want when they want it deserve to have responsibility and certainly students shouldn’t be running the classroom. This is just one incident that happened my first year in DeKalb-but my 12th year as a teacher.
Colonel Jack
November 27th, 2011
3:56 pm
Jenny … unless I am reading you incorrectly (and my reading comprehension is light-years ahead of that of an ant), the so-called “experts” you say we should call in are the very people who’ve caused the problems in schools in the first place. They’re the ones jumping on any bandwagon that comes along, hoping that this will be the “program-in-a-box” that will make their schools succeed.
The last person I’d ever call in would be an “expert.”
Esther Panitch
November 27th, 2011
4:10 pm
Maureen,
I am the attorney for the child whose jaw and nose was broken at Westlake HS 3 weeks ago. My eyes have been opened about violence in schools which has been concealed by administrators. I would be happy to speak with you about what I am finding in my own investigation.
Esther Panitch
dekalbed
November 27th, 2011
4:11 pm
At the DCSS school where I work such threats have been communicated to parents.
But the opportunity to break rules and go unpunished or inconvenienced is also comunicated to students and parents.
And I would argue that the school and out of school administrators’ unwillingness to enforce school/county rules and the lack of any real punishment (a 3-day suspension for a student who usually doesn’t want to be in class anyway?) are why students continue breaking rules until these transgressions manifest themselves in more serious law-breaking disturbances like taking school communicative devices, bringing or dealing drugs in school, or threatening or attacking students or teachers.
Courtney
November 27th, 2011
4:15 pm
What happens in Gwinnett Schools stays in Gwinnett schools. They pressure teachers with their jobs not to report anything.
catlady
November 27th, 2011
4:17 pm
We were put through a series of nonsense staff development on how to “difuse” a student about to explode. We were told to get someone to cover our class (hahahahhahahahhaha) while we invite the student into the hall to walk and talk for a while.
Okay, now this was the stupidest thing I had ever heard (and after 39 years in education that is saying a LOT). First, there is NO ONE available to take your class. Administration is busy, and your fellow teachers, at the elementary level, are all teaching! Second, you are giving positive reinforcement to the student who soon sees that when he gets “in crisis” it is a get out of class free card. Not only does that kid’s behavior get reinforced, but soon you have several kids playing that card.
I am held to a high standard to teach these kids, no matter how far behind, how disruptive, how disinterested, or unable. I cannot be “walking the hall” to difuse a kid with serious behavior problems and still meet my obligations to the other 26 in the class–nor should I be expected to!
We even have some teachers with “additional training” in this nonsense. What we need is to have the cajones to remove the kid from the classroom until such time as he can conform his behavior!
And, as to the topic, I am sure things are covered up or “coded down.” Parents are informed about lice, but not about acts of violence or threats at the elementary level!
Maureen Downey
November 27th, 2011
4:21 pm
Ms. Panitch, Thanks. I will call you tomorrow.
Maureen
Ernest
November 27th, 2011
4:31 pm
Since a few posts have mentioned AYP and schools being labeled as ‘persistently dangerous’, I took the liberty of finding how that works in GA. If interested, go to:
http://www.gadoe.org/aypnclb.aspx?PageReq=AboutUSCO
I recall back in 2003, DeKalb had some of the highest rates of incidents in the state. Gary McGiboney, who oversaw that at the time indicated one could look at the DeKalb report and know that it reflected a more stringent reporting mechanism. Think about it, would you be more afraid of a DeKalb school with how it handled reporting or a school in another district that may not be as aggressive with its reporting? What could hurt you and your child more, what you do know or what you don’t?
Marie
November 27th, 2011
4:40 pm
My child goes to a pretty affluant high school in north Fulton and there are drug deals in the parking lots before and after school. We have a resource officer at the school, but the school is so large he can’t possibly police the entire school. I am fairly certain that the school administrators know about the drugs at the school. Our students are very well behaved – even those who use drugs – so sometimes I think that the school tolerates the drug activity because we don’t have many disciplinary problems, and we have rather high test scores. There are times that I think that the administrators sweep our drug issues under the rug because they don’t want to call any negative attention to our seemingly idyllic school.
Observer
November 27th, 2011
4:49 pm
“Jenny” at 1:14 pm and 3:44 pm sounds very like a troll…in fact, quite a familiar Good Parent troll to the regular readers of this blog. Nasty insults in a string of 1-sentence paragraphs… I’m surprised that “Jenny” hasn’t accused you teachers yet of whining.
K-12 needs change
November 27th, 2011
4:52 pm
Yes, schools and districts are VERY dangerous. Every child is at great risk of never receiving a quality educatio0n.
Jennifer Falk
November 27th, 2011
5:08 pm
When it comes to student discipline (or lack thereof) transparency to a community is non existent – end of story. When information or data is released to the community it is riddled with spin depending on the audience.
I have been a student of discipline reporting in Georgia since 2003 and would venture to say that I continue to be amazed at the lack of transparency at the local level provided to parents, supporting business and civic stakeholders.
Larry Major
November 27th, 2011
5:33 pm
@Maureen, Sit your young relative down and smack him upside the head (or whatever action you feel is appropriate) to get his undivided attention. He needs to call the local police dispatch desk at the standard phone number – not 911, the standard number – and tell them he wants to report an assault. They will send a peace officer to his location to complete a report of this incident. When the report is filed, it is public record and can be forwarded to the local newspaper, where it will hopefully get some ink.
If you think this is somehow harsh, please consider the consequences of inaction.
This kid needs to learn RIGHT NOW, before it’s too late, that his actions are intolerable. Otherwise, he will someday pull a gun on a peace officer, armed courier or any number of us who don’t have the luxury of living in the Happy World. The outcome of this is very predictable.
No parent should ever have to endure the heartbreak of planning their child’s funeral. Maybe some light time and probation will straighten this kid out, maybe it won’t. We can’t know what will happen, but we can at least try for the best outcome.
Woody
November 27th, 2011
5:55 pm
We moved out of a school district because the middle school was too rough for one of my children. Occasionally I would visit, and there were toughs in the stairwells and bends of the hallways, shaking down other children for money. It was a standard day at school, with no standards for order. The principal, who liked sitting in her office, had the attitude that the children needed to work this out for themselves. Eventually my child just refused to go into the building. So, we put him in a private school for six months and then moved out of district. A safe, secure environment has to be absolutely the first order of business for a school. But I would say that it begins with the principal, even though the assistant principal often takes the role of school disciplinarian. The principal has to be out there roaming the halls, visiting the classrooms, listening, watching, enforcing order, controlling the school with their presence. The principal has the power, and people respond to that.
Fed up junior
November 27th, 2011
6:11 pm
I attend an affluent North Fulton school (previously mentioned in the comments reel) and it is one of the top ranking schools in the state. However, due to our status the fact that we are prone to have fights wishes to be obstructed by the administration. I’ll give you an example. Around October 25th, we had a series of fights within a single school day. One of them can be compared to the fight that we all have heard of at Westlake. The administration, namely the principal tried to downplay the fight, assumingly to make sure our school is still in the spotlight. I don’t believe the prinicipal has a good grasp of discipline in the school, but she does try to downgrade what we have.
Dr. John Trotter
November 27th, 2011
6:12 pm
I just returned from church, lunch, movie (”J. Edgar”), and a couple of stores. I see that I missed a fruitful discussion on discipline — or the lack thereof — in our schools. No improvement in our schools will ever occur until the firm hand is applied to discipline. Sweeping disciplinary infractions under the rug and then getting mad at teachers for lodging needed complaints about the impudent behavior of certain students are the typical responses to egregious disciplinary concerns.
When I was an administrator who was in charge of discipline at a high school and a middle school many years ago, you could hear a pin drop in the halls, and the teachers knew that all that they had to do if a student refused to behave or smarting off to them was to send the student to my office. I took care of the rest…with all due alacrity and then I would walk down to their classroom (usually at the change of classes) and let the teacher know the fate of the student (paddling and detention for minor offenses and suspension and/or expulsion for major offenses). The kids got the message very quickly. The teachers loved and appreciated the support. They could then teach without having to play cops & robbers or being a baby sitter. Initially, the students and their parents thought that I was “crazy” (which is good!) but eventually they learned the drill. The schools were learning institutions, not places where thugs could rule the roost.
http://www.georgiateachersspeakout.com
http://www.theteachersadvocate.com
Jimmy
November 27th, 2011
6:19 pm
Kudos Dr. Trotter. That’s the kind of administrator for whom I would LOVE to work. Anyone in any position, teaching or not, wants to know they are supported. It’s true of the private sector as well as teaching, If you are not supported you simply cannot do your job. It is absolutely demoralizing day in and day out knowing you have to go into a classroom where a 16-yr-old brat feels like he is in control because every attempt to discipline him has been undermined by your boss. It is one of the main reasons I am leaving my district at the end of this school year after 16 years of teaching.
Tired of the nonsense
November 27th, 2011
6:34 pm
@iteach
Several bloggers have asked Maureen to investigate the corruption in Fulton County Schools(on all levels), but it seems as if she’s hesitant about giving the public the truth about the scandalous Fulton County Board of Education.
Andre
November 27th, 2011
6:49 pm
A terrorist threat against an APS high school? That’s almost as believable as Car Bomb guy in Cherokee County.
Neil
November 27th, 2011
6:54 pm
If something embarrassing happens at the AJC, do they run a story about it? Does ANY institution seek out negative publicity? Of course schools cover up negative stories. Everybody does!
Maureen Downey
November 27th, 2011
6:59 pm
@Neil, The AJC is not a public entity paid for by taxpayers and required by state law to accurately and completely report its discipline info.
Maureen
(That said, there was once a well known columnist who wished the paper would hide embarrassing details. His DUI arrest made the paper.)
Ernest
November 27th, 2011
7:03 pm
Neil has a point, as long as there are Non Disclosure Agreements (NDAs) and some who are willing to protect the name of an institution, the public will not hear of most embarrassing situations. Isn’t this what happened at Penn State until the public became aware of it?
Dr. John Trotter
November 27th, 2011
7:13 pm
Maureen is absolutely right about disclosure. The PUBLIC schools are not (or should not be) priviate fiefdoms. They are paid for by public monies. The AJC and its parent company, Cox Enterprises, are private companies. Mr. Cox was a good businessman and a pretty damn good politician. In fact, in the 1920s, he was the nominee of the Democrat Party for Vice President.
Dr. John Trotter
November 27th, 2011
7:18 pm
James Cox was an Ohio Congressman and also was elected Governor of Ohio on two occasions. Looks like Ohioans will be feeling much better next week, as it appears that there will be Urban (as in Meyer) Renewal taking place at Ohio State.
ScienceTeacher671
November 27th, 2011
7:44 pm
Is that kind of like the case a few years ago when a couple of kids brought a small home-made bomb to the most prestigious private school in Savannah, and the headmaster kept it for a day or two before contacting the police?
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November 27th, 2011
7:58 pm
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ScienceTeacher671
November 27th, 2011
8:05 pm
An acquaintance did Troops-to-Teachers and became a teacher in New York state. He said discipline incidents that would get a child expelled at our school (and our system is by no means the strictest in the state) were routinely downplayed in NY, because state law there was that any student who was expelled was entitled to a personal tutor at taxpayer expense during school hours. The state and the districts did not want to pay for tutors!
Who Cares
November 27th, 2011
8:32 pm
Welcome to accountability! When pay and employment is based on the actions of kids and teens, then anything that negatively impacts pay and employment will be diminished. In today’s society, a school full of gun-toting, knife-weilding, fighting teens would be called a failing school, and the teachers and administrators would be blamed. Only radical change can fix the pathetic American education system.
beenaroundawhile
November 27th, 2011
10:46 pm
okay…let’s set the record straight on the tweety bird issue once and for all! DO NOT blame the administrators at the school for the handling of that issue….they simply made a phone call to the central office and the central office made the decision! And, of course, the school administrators took the heat for that call. Yes, I know this info first hand..I taught at that school when the event unfolded. I learned a valuable lesson during that mess….the press NEVER gets the entire story because parents can talk it up to the press but we (the education system) must protect the confidentiality of the student.
mountain man
November 27th, 2011
11:01 pm
Beenaroundawhile – maybe I don’t understand the situation you are talking about…but it sounds just like the Penn State affair.
Instead of calling the police, the administration calls the “central office” and they say to cover it up. Just exactly what JoePa did when he heard about the abuse by Sandusky.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
November 28th, 2011
2:45 am
In re: Title Question
ARE YOU KIDDING?
grady parent
November 28th, 2011
6:36 am
Terrorist threat- really? I worked as part of the safety and security parent/teacher counsel at Grady so was privy to more than just parent hear say. Anyone aware of the location of Grady is aware that being in midtown poses unique situations- that the street crime of breaking into cars can have the miscreant running from the cops and ducking into the parking lot of Grady to run through/get to the other major cross road.. Mid day, broad daylight and not the brightest bulb for a criminal. Because of that situation, not because of a terrorist threat, the school rightly went into security mode. It was handled by all staff and police in a quiet and calm manner, I happen to be there inside the school and outside when it happened. My middle school son was waiting in the car for me- nothing about the situation raised my concern, nothing inside the school raised concern. It was just that it happened to overflow into school territory and the school officials had to take precautions. I don’t know where you heard terrorist threat from but please stop making it sound as if Grady High School is anything but what it is- an urban high school.
I have taught in schools that were violent, that metal detectors were a necessary part of running the school for the gang violence prevalent inside and outside the school. Grady is NOT that type of school and I trust the administration with the safety of my children there. I cannot speak for other schools in APS but Grady is not at all a sweep under the rug situation.
Joy in Teaching
November 28th, 2011
7:00 am
It depends upon who the kid is that is committing the violence.
Some special ed students actually have it written in their IEP that they cannot help being violent. These students can literally attack, bite and kick other students and teachers to their hearts content and nothing can be done about it because the IEP is a legal document. They can destroy the learning environment of others all they want to and to heck with the needs of others. For added joy, some even get their own para pro (at tax payer’s expense) to follow them around all day.
Joy in Teaching
November 28th, 2011
7:02 am
By the way….what will happen to those types of kids when they get out in the real world away from the protection of Special Ed laws?
They attack others and go to jail, of course.
Ronin
November 28th, 2011
9:28 am
@Joy, “By the way….what will happen to those types of kids when they get out in the real world away from the protection of Special Ed laws?
They attack others and go to jail, of course.”
Well maybe…
The students are only repeating what they have “learned” in school.
The very people that have allowed this behavior to continue because of a special behavioral rating are the same ones condemning these kids to failure in life.
As far as going to jail? Only if they are lucky. If they pull that kind of crap (pulling a gun or weapon) on an off duty police officer or someone with a concealed carry permit, jail could be the least of their worries.
Economics Teacher
November 28th, 2011
12:25 pm
Yes, I have witnessed it first hand on several occasions, the most serious of which happened in 1993. A male from off campus came looking for a male student on camups, when he found the student he shot at him twice in the hallway. The bullets missed their target and went through a window. This happened right outside my classroom. We never went in lockdown, there was never an intruder alert, nothing whatsoever was ever announced or discussed about it ever! I kept waiting for an administrator to get on the intercom and tell us something, anything! But, nothing ever came. I kept the door locked and the kids out of the hallway until the bell rang and then I let them go. I was a first year teacher and had never been told what to do if something like this happened (but neither had veteran teachers at that time.)
After school I asked the principal what happened and he wouldn’t say. I called WSB down the street on the payphone to let them know so that maybe they could get some answers, but I never heard anything about it.
That is just one example.
chaislip
November 28th, 2011
1:01 pm
My son was beginning his second week at Druid Hills High School when he was jumped in the cafeteria by another student and beaten in the face with a rock. When I arrived at school to see my bloody child laying in the floor, the principal didn’t/wouldn’t even speak to me. The school claimed no responsibility. I spent weeks making calls and visits to the administrators and to the “Dekalb School Police” precinct…which is also a joke. I pushed and pushed for a year at which time the child was given a minimal sentence…to which she did not serve. When I called the probation officer to report that the family had not paid the damages we were awarded for our medical expenses and that none of the other criteria for her sentence had been met, I was told they could not find the child. THERE WAS NO ACCOUNTABILITY and we wonder why our system is failing…if the adults won’t take responsibility, why do we expect the kids to?
Good Mother
November 28th, 2011
2:44 pm
This is most definitely something the AJC can investigate and it is also something to which can contribute and help monitor.
Every time a teacher sees an incident, make an official report, then make two copies. One for the teacher and one for the AJC reporter.
It will be simple to compare what is officially reported to what teachers report by comparing the official reports from the schools to the ones the teachers send to the AJC. Even if the administrators tear up the report the teacher gave them, the AJC and the teacher will have a copy.
It would also be easy for every teacher to carry her iPhone or camera with her to photograph the incidents. My childrens teachers always have their cameras ready — they routinely photograph children in the classroom.
Those photos are irrefutable evidence.
This would make it very easy to determine which schools are undereporting crime in the classroom and as another poster said, the teacher can always call the police.
To Chaislip from Good Mother
November 28th, 2011
2:46 pm
You should sue. THAT will get their attention.
Joy in Teaching
November 28th, 2011
3:34 pm
@ Good Mother
You obviously don’t have a clue about confidentiality laws and minors. Teachers would not only be fired for giving the AJC a copy of an incident report involving a minor, but they’d also lose their teaching license for good.
Standard 7 of the Code of Ethics for Georgia teachers is about sharing confidential information.
“An educator shall comply with state and federal laws and state school board policies relating to the confidentiality of student and personnel records, standardized test material and other information. Unethical conduct includes but is not limited to sharing of confidential information concerning student academic and disciplinary records,…”
I can’t even take a picture of a really good project that my students have done without parent consent. Taking a picture or video of students misbehaving with my iPhone would land me in much more dire straits than the student wrong doer.
Joy in Teaching
November 28th, 2011
3:41 pm
Ronin stated at 9:38: The students are only repeating what they have “learned” in school.
The very people that have allowed this behavior to continue because of a special behavioral rating are the same ones condemning these kids to failure in life.
I must say that I agree with you on this. However, students didn’t suddenly misbehave once they started coming to school.
I’d say about 95% of teachers would agree with you as well. But we don’t make the rules about special ed law: the federal government does. We do have to enforce those laws or we can lose our jobs.
Several years ago, I was told that one of those violent lovelies would be in my class along with the parapro whose sole purpose was to watch that student. I told them that the child was welcome, but the exact nano second the child attacked me, I would sue the child’s parents and the school. I also told them that if the child attacked another student in my presence, I’d also sue. I was accused of not be Christian, not being professional, and being hard hearted. I was threatened with a write up and had administrators come down hard on me. But they backed off pretty quick because I wasn’t about to budge on the basic requirement of personal safety.
To Joy in Teaching from Good Mother
November 28th, 2011
5:46 pm
You just want to give up, don’t you joy?
Always an excuse, never an idea. Never a solution.
Just whine, whine, whine.
da truf
November 28th, 2011
7:16 pm
this reminded me of when a black kid beat up a white kid in a middle school in gwinnett county, and the administrators did absolutely nothing to punish the black kid
Good Memory
November 28th, 2011
7:21 pm
@ Good Mother. Still getting your kicks from being a troll, aren’t you?
@ Good Mother
November 28th, 2011
7:24 pm
You just whine, whine, whine. Look in the mirror.
vietnamviet
November 28th, 2011
7:40 pm
Sure it happens!! I taught in APS for over 30 years and I saw serious infractions that happened that were not reported.. I think state law now mandates that certrain incidents be made a matter of record. Yet incidents are still swept under the rug.
junkmonkey
November 28th, 2011
10:01 pm
Wake up everyone and smell the coffee. The superintendent hides alot of stuff from the Board members to preserve his appointed job. You would really be shocked to know how many things are covered up and put under the rug by principals and superintendents. Infact, the rug has gotten so high off the floor everything is ready to explode. You will find athletic players are not punished as harshly as other students. Even if they are involved in the same thing and at the same time as other students. All the discipline has gotten out of hand not only in our community but in the State of Georgia and the Nation. Administrator are evidently afraid to punish certain students. And, evidently afraid to punish any student. As a former administrator, I would say….read the rules and explain them to the students and if they do not want to abide by them send them home. And, I know some of you are saying Oh! that will miss up the AYP in attendance. Well so be it. As, a principal and a superintendent you have to guarantee the safety of your students. And, playing pattie cake with the trouble makers is wrong. Let them know that school is where you come to learn not to do drugs, drink alcohol, have sex, Oh, yes there have been those who have had sex on campus,
Wake up and smell the coffee. If things like this are going on, and they are! You need to ask your board of education to get rid of the superintendent and the principals, If you know of instances where things have happened call your Board of Education Member let them be aware of what is going on in the schools. Because, the Board Members are the last ones to know. Remember you have a right to call your Board of Education Member, they are elected to represent you and your district. So have at it.
junkmonkey
November 28th, 2011
10:17 pm
We could solve some our problems by having an ELECTED SCHOOL SUPERIMTENDENT and ELECTED BOARD MEMBERS. I am tired of people coming in and running the schools who really do not know the community and possibly do not care. They are just wanting the BIG BUCKS. By having all of them elected, you would have a superintendent who would be at REAL STAKE HOLDER in the school system and not just some fly by night person who is only going to stay on the average 4 years. AND, with an elected school superintendent you could vote him/her in or out in four years based on how you as a taxpayer feels they have done their job. And, their will be none of this money to pay them if they are asked to leave the way it is now. You see the screwups stay because counties cannot afford to get rid of them.
YES LET THE PEOPLE HAVE A CHOICE IN WHO WILL BE THEIR SUPERINTENDENT!!! LET US HAVE ELECTED SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENTS AND ELECTED SCHOOL BOARDS.
The local board members need to realize that the superintendent works for you not the other way around.
Joy in Teaching
November 29th, 2011
6:53 am
@ Good Mother So stating state law that protects minors is considered whining? Your troll status is secure.
Ole Guy
November 30th, 2011
3:18 pm
Regarding the issue of violence within the schools, today’s topic du jour, rates of prego, and the myriad “problems” which are thrashed over daily with no apparent solutions…parents; teachers…START SWINGING! I realize, all too well, that the general consensus toward any thought of returning to the (tried and proven) old ways is one of disdain and total rejection. Well, let’s take a brief look at the “modern” methodologies in dealing with kids…THEY DON’T FREQUIN WORK!! As evidenced by the recurring themes we see; as evidenced by the objective results all around us in what passes as modern contemporary society: rotten college performances, piss poor public education, a Country whose “booming industries” lie in the penal/corrections” sectors, etc, etc, etc…isn’t it about time we start considering the fact that there is simply no other way to deal with kids, particularly kids who insist on bucking all means of growing up NORMALY.
Don’t misunderstand my words…I, and thousands of my generation, got into all sorts of poo poo; we also had our sixes tanned up quite a lot; we also has ALL, and I mean ALL privileges, associated with teen life outside the confines of home and school, revoked for long long periods of time. WE LEARNED, FROM THE EARLIEST DAYS, THE MEANING OF REAL…REPEAT, REAL…CONSEQUENCES WERE. Somehow, despite all this terrible treatment, we grew up, fought a few wars, learned that life contains both good stuff and not so good stuff, and that we just gotta deal with it. All-too-many of us learned…still in our teens and early 20’s…by direct experience, not because we wanted to, but because we were called upon to do so…that WE, AND WE ALONE, had to take life’s high roads, or die tryin..
We insist on pissing around so damn much with these kids; all we’re doing is producing generations of softies who will never learn to fight their ways out of the proverbial paper bag; who will always be reliant of someone else doing their dirty work while they continue to insist on exercising rights which were never earned.
Keep it up, people…social promotions/promotions by (what was it, Prof?) some sort of idiotic “committee”, college kids majoring in remedials, etc, etc, etc. You’re doin just great, people. Piss an’ moan over those who knowingly abuse our tax monies, over those who have neither the spine nor the spheroids to simply do what’s right. Stay scared, people…scared of your kids, scared of eachother; scared of your very selves…too scared that you just might make the wrong decisions in dealing with these kids who are, in not too many years, going to grow up to be just like YOU.
Should schools tell parents when there are lock-downs? | Get Schooled
November 30th, 2011
3:54 pm
[...] I asked a few days ago whether schools are under reporting violence or threats of violence. I cited a note that I had received from a knowledgeable source that Atlanta Public Schools had failed to alert parents to lock-downs at Grady High School and the New Schools of Carver, and that the incidents exposed a troubling lack of coordination between APS and Atlanta Police. [...]
Should schools tell parents when there are lock-downs? | Atlanta-ON.us
November 30th, 2011
5:23 pm
[...] I asked a few days ago whether schools are under reporting violence or threats of violence. I cited a note that I had received from a knowledgeable source that Atlanta Public Schools had failed to alert parents to lockdowns at Grady High School and the New Schools of Carver, and that the incidents exposed a troubling lack of coordination between APS and Atlanta Police. [...]
Should schools tell parents when there are lockdowns? | Atlanta-ON.us
November 30th, 2011
7:37 pm
[...] I asked a few days ago whether schools are under reporting violence or threats of violence. I cited a note that I had received from a knowledgeable source that Atlanta Public Schools had failed to alert parents to lockdowns at Grady High School and the New Schools of Carver, and that the incidents exposed a troubling lack of coordination between APS and Atlanta Police. [...]