Do schools conceal violent incidents and threats to avoid negative press and parent outrage?
Among the extended family I saw over the holiday was a young relative who is working as a substitute teacher in the Northeast since he can’t find a full-time teaching post. He shared a story that surprised me, and I wanted to run it by folks here.
He was subbing at a low-performing high school that recently had a well-publicized stabbing. A student in his class pulled what he thought was a real gun on him, and they had a standoff for several minutes until the teen put the “gun” away and the teacher tackled him to the floor. It turned out the gun was a toy, and the student received a three-day suspension for the incident.
The substitute teacher was disappointed with the punishment, but said the school wanted to prevent another round of negative press.
Would such an incident be kept quiet in Georgia? Could it go so easily unreported under zero tolerance policies in which students can get suspended for Tweety Bird key chains?
And speaking of keeping things quiet, I heard about two Atlanta high schools being on lock down the week before Thanksgiving due to terrorist threats. Apparently, parents at Grady and the New Schools of Carver were not informed of the threats. The person who mentioned it to me felt the incidents spotlighted a troubling lack of coordination between APS and Atlanta Police.
I plan to ask APS about this Monday. Did anyone in either school community get formal notification of these threats?
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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139 comments Add your comment
Fed up junior
November 27th, 2011
6:11 pm
I attend an affluent North Fulton school (previously mentioned in the comments reel) and it is one of the top ranking schools in the state. However, due to our status the fact that we are prone to have fights wishes to be obstructed by the administration. I’ll give you an example. Around October 25th, we had a series of fights within a single school day. One of them can be compared to the fight that we all have heard of at Westlake. The administration, namely the principal tried to downplay the fight, assumingly to make sure our school is still in the spotlight. I don’t believe the prinicipal has a good grasp of discipline in the school, but she does try to downgrade what we have.
Dr. John Trotter
November 27th, 2011
6:12 pm
I just returned from church, lunch, movie (”J. Edgar”), and a couple of stores. I see that I missed a fruitful discussion on discipline — or the lack thereof — in our schools. No improvement in our schools will ever occur until the firm hand is applied to discipline. Sweeping disciplinary infractions under the rug and then getting mad at teachers for lodging needed complaints about the impudent behavior of certain students are the typical responses to egregious disciplinary concerns.
When I was an administrator who was in charge of discipline at a high school and a middle school many years ago, you could hear a pin drop in the halls, and the teachers knew that all that they had to do if a student refused to behave or smarting off to them was to send the student to my office. I took care of the rest…with all due alacrity and then I would walk down to their classroom (usually at the change of classes) and let the teacher know the fate of the student (paddling and detention for minor offenses and suspension and/or expulsion for major offenses). The kids got the message very quickly. The teachers loved and appreciated the support. They could then teach without having to play cops & robbers or being a baby sitter. Initially, the students and their parents thought that I was “crazy” (which is good!) but eventually they learned the drill. The schools were learning institutions, not places where thugs could rule the roost.
http://www.georgiateachersspeakout.com
http://www.theteachersadvocate.com
Jimmy
November 27th, 2011
6:19 pm
Kudos Dr. Trotter. That’s the kind of administrator for whom I would LOVE to work. Anyone in any position, teaching or not, wants to know they are supported. It’s true of the private sector as well as teaching, If you are not supported you simply cannot do your job. It is absolutely demoralizing day in and day out knowing you have to go into a classroom where a 16-yr-old brat feels like he is in control because every attempt to discipline him has been undermined by your boss. It is one of the main reasons I am leaving my district at the end of this school year after 16 years of teaching.
Tired of the nonsense
November 27th, 2011
6:34 pm
@iteach
Several bloggers have asked Maureen to investigate the corruption in Fulton County Schools(on all levels), but it seems as if she’s hesitant about giving the public the truth about the scandalous Fulton County Board of Education.
Andre
November 27th, 2011
6:49 pm
A terrorist threat against an APS high school? That’s almost as believable as Car Bomb guy in Cherokee County.
Neil
November 27th, 2011
6:54 pm
If something embarrassing happens at the AJC, do they run a story about it? Does ANY institution seek out negative publicity? Of course schools cover up negative stories. Everybody does!
Maureen Downey
November 27th, 2011
6:59 pm
@Neil, The AJC is not a public entity paid for by taxpayers and required by state law to accurately and completely report its discipline info.
Maureen
(That said, there was once a well known columnist who wished the paper would hide embarrassing details. His DUI arrest made the paper.)
Ernest
November 27th, 2011
7:03 pm
Neil has a point, as long as there are Non Disclosure Agreements (NDAs) and some who are willing to protect the name of an institution, the public will not hear of most embarrassing situations. Isn’t this what happened at Penn State until the public became aware of it?
Dr. John Trotter
November 27th, 2011
7:13 pm
Maureen is absolutely right about disclosure. The PUBLIC schools are not (or should not be) priviate fiefdoms. They are paid for by public monies. The AJC and its parent company, Cox Enterprises, are private companies. Mr. Cox was a good businessman and a pretty damn good politician. In fact, in the 1920s, he was the nominee of the Democrat Party for Vice President.
Dr. John Trotter
November 27th, 2011
7:18 pm
James Cox was an Ohio Congressman and also was elected Governor of Ohio on two occasions. Looks like Ohioans will be feeling much better next week, as it appears that there will be Urban (as in Meyer) Renewal taking place at Ohio State.
ScienceTeacher671
November 27th, 2011
7:44 pm
Is that kind of like the case a few years ago when a couple of kids brought a small home-made bomb to the most prestigious private school in Savannah, and the headmaster kept it for a day or two before contacting the police?
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November 27th, 2011
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[...] Posted by hostedpbxpricing on November 28, 2011 in Which Phones Have Video Calling · 0 Comments Do schools conceal violent incidents and threats to avoid negative press and … Parents have whispered for many years about students being caught with pictures or video on their phones related to fighting or nudity. Keeping in mind the prevalence of smart phones, students are often in possession of information and media … Read more on Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
ScienceTeacher671
November 27th, 2011
8:05 pm
An acquaintance did Troops-to-Teachers and became a teacher in New York state. He said discipline incidents that would get a child expelled at our school (and our system is by no means the strictest in the state) were routinely downplayed in NY, because state law there was that any student who was expelled was entitled to a personal tutor at taxpayer expense during school hours. The state and the districts did not want to pay for tutors!
Who Cares
November 27th, 2011
8:32 pm
Welcome to accountability! When pay and employment is based on the actions of kids and teens, then anything that negatively impacts pay and employment will be diminished. In today’s society, a school full of gun-toting, knife-weilding, fighting teens would be called a failing school, and the teachers and administrators would be blamed. Only radical change can fix the pathetic American education system.
beenaroundawhile
November 27th, 2011
10:46 pm
okay…let’s set the record straight on the tweety bird issue once and for all! DO NOT blame the administrators at the school for the handling of that issue….they simply made a phone call to the central office and the central office made the decision! And, of course, the school administrators took the heat for that call. Yes, I know this info first hand..I taught at that school when the event unfolded. I learned a valuable lesson during that mess….the press NEVER gets the entire story because parents can talk it up to the press but we (the education system) must protect the confidentiality of the student.
mountain man
November 27th, 2011
11:01 pm
Beenaroundawhile – maybe I don’t understand the situation you are talking about…but it sounds just like the Penn State affair.
Instead of calling the police, the administration calls the “central office” and they say to cover it up. Just exactly what JoePa did when he heard about the abuse by Sandusky.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
November 28th, 2011
2:45 am
In re: Title Question
ARE YOU KIDDING?
grady parent
November 28th, 2011
6:36 am
Terrorist threat- really? I worked as part of the safety and security parent/teacher counsel at Grady so was privy to more than just parent hear say. Anyone aware of the location of Grady is aware that being in midtown poses unique situations- that the street crime of breaking into cars can have the miscreant running from the cops and ducking into the parking lot of Grady to run through/get to the other major cross road.. Mid day, broad daylight and not the brightest bulb for a criminal. Because of that situation, not because of a terrorist threat, the school rightly went into security mode. It was handled by all staff and police in a quiet and calm manner, I happen to be there inside the school and outside when it happened. My middle school son was waiting in the car for me- nothing about the situation raised my concern, nothing inside the school raised concern. It was just that it happened to overflow into school territory and the school officials had to take precautions. I don’t know where you heard terrorist threat from but please stop making it sound as if Grady High School is anything but what it is- an urban high school.
I have taught in schools that were violent, that metal detectors were a necessary part of running the school for the gang violence prevalent inside and outside the school. Grady is NOT that type of school and I trust the administration with the safety of my children there. I cannot speak for other schools in APS but Grady is not at all a sweep under the rug situation.
Joy in Teaching
November 28th, 2011
7:00 am
It depends upon who the kid is that is committing the violence.
Some special ed students actually have it written in their IEP that they cannot help being violent. These students can literally attack, bite and kick other students and teachers to their hearts content and nothing can be done about it because the IEP is a legal document. They can destroy the learning environment of others all they want to and to heck with the needs of others. For added joy, some even get their own para pro (at tax payer’s expense) to follow them around all day.
Joy in Teaching
November 28th, 2011
7:02 am
By the way….what will happen to those types of kids when they get out in the real world away from the protection of Special Ed laws?
They attack others and go to jail, of course.
Ronin
November 28th, 2011
9:28 am
@Joy, “By the way….what will happen to those types of kids when they get out in the real world away from the protection of Special Ed laws?
They attack others and go to jail, of course.”
Well maybe…
The students are only repeating what they have “learned” in school.
The very people that have allowed this behavior to continue because of a special behavioral rating are the same ones condemning these kids to failure in life.
As far as going to jail? Only if they are lucky. If they pull that kind of crap (pulling a gun or weapon) on an off duty police officer or someone with a concealed carry permit, jail could be the least of their worries.
Economics Teacher
November 28th, 2011
12:25 pm
Yes, I have witnessed it first hand on several occasions, the most serious of which happened in 1993. A male from off campus came looking for a male student on camups, when he found the student he shot at him twice in the hallway. The bullets missed their target and went through a window. This happened right outside my classroom. We never went in lockdown, there was never an intruder alert, nothing whatsoever was ever announced or discussed about it ever! I kept waiting for an administrator to get on the intercom and tell us something, anything! But, nothing ever came. I kept the door locked and the kids out of the hallway until the bell rang and then I let them go. I was a first year teacher and had never been told what to do if something like this happened (but neither had veteran teachers at that time.)
After school I asked the principal what happened and he wouldn’t say. I called WSB down the street on the payphone to let them know so that maybe they could get some answers, but I never heard anything about it.
That is just one example.
chaislip
November 28th, 2011
1:01 pm
My son was beginning his second week at Druid Hills High School when he was jumped in the cafeteria by another student and beaten in the face with a rock. When I arrived at school to see my bloody child laying in the floor, the principal didn’t/wouldn’t even speak to me. The school claimed no responsibility. I spent weeks making calls and visits to the administrators and to the “Dekalb School Police” precinct…which is also a joke. I pushed and pushed for a year at which time the child was given a minimal sentence…to which she did not serve. When I called the probation officer to report that the family had not paid the damages we were awarded for our medical expenses and that none of the other criteria for her sentence had been met, I was told they could not find the child. THERE WAS NO ACCOUNTABILITY and we wonder why our system is failing…if the adults won’t take responsibility, why do we expect the kids to?
Good Mother
November 28th, 2011
2:44 pm
This is most definitely something the AJC can investigate and it is also something to which can contribute and help monitor.
Every time a teacher sees an incident, make an official report, then make two copies. One for the teacher and one for the AJC reporter.
It will be simple to compare what is officially reported to what teachers report by comparing the official reports from the schools to the ones the teachers send to the AJC. Even if the administrators tear up the report the teacher gave them, the AJC and the teacher will have a copy.
It would also be easy for every teacher to carry her iPhone or camera with her to photograph the incidents. My childrens teachers always have their cameras ready — they routinely photograph children in the classroom.
Those photos are irrefutable evidence.
This would make it very easy to determine which schools are undereporting crime in the classroom and as another poster said, the teacher can always call the police.
To Chaislip from Good Mother
November 28th, 2011
2:46 pm
You should sue. THAT will get their attention.
Joy in Teaching
November 28th, 2011
3:34 pm
@ Good Mother
You obviously don’t have a clue about confidentiality laws and minors. Teachers would not only be fired for giving the AJC a copy of an incident report involving a minor, but they’d also lose their teaching license for good.
Standard 7 of the Code of Ethics for Georgia teachers is about sharing confidential information.
“An educator shall comply with state and federal laws and state school board policies relating to the confidentiality of student and personnel records, standardized test material and other information. Unethical conduct includes but is not limited to sharing of confidential information concerning student academic and disciplinary records,…”
I can’t even take a picture of a really good project that my students have done without parent consent. Taking a picture or video of students misbehaving with my iPhone would land me in much more dire straits than the student wrong doer.
Joy in Teaching
November 28th, 2011
3:41 pm
Ronin stated at 9:38: The students are only repeating what they have “learned” in school.
The very people that have allowed this behavior to continue because of a special behavioral rating are the same ones condemning these kids to failure in life.
I must say that I agree with you on this. However, students didn’t suddenly misbehave once they started coming to school.
I’d say about 95% of teachers would agree with you as well. But we don’t make the rules about special ed law: the federal government does. We do have to enforce those laws or we can lose our jobs.
Several years ago, I was told that one of those violent lovelies would be in my class along with the parapro whose sole purpose was to watch that student. I told them that the child was welcome, but the exact nano second the child attacked me, I would sue the child’s parents and the school. I also told them that if the child attacked another student in my presence, I’d also sue. I was accused of not be Christian, not being professional, and being hard hearted. I was threatened with a write up and had administrators come down hard on me. But they backed off pretty quick because I wasn’t about to budge on the basic requirement of personal safety.
To Joy in Teaching from Good Mother
November 28th, 2011
5:46 pm
You just want to give up, don’t you joy?
Always an excuse, never an idea. Never a solution.
Just whine, whine, whine.
da truf
November 28th, 2011
7:16 pm
this reminded me of when a black kid beat up a white kid in a middle school in gwinnett county, and the administrators did absolutely nothing to punish the black kid
Good Memory
November 28th, 2011
7:21 pm
@ Good Mother. Still getting your kicks from being a troll, aren’t you?
@ Good Mother
November 28th, 2011
7:24 pm
You just whine, whine, whine. Look in the mirror.
vietnamviet
November 28th, 2011
7:40 pm
Sure it happens!! I taught in APS for over 30 years and I saw serious infractions that happened that were not reported.. I think state law now mandates that certrain incidents be made a matter of record. Yet incidents are still swept under the rug.
junkmonkey
November 28th, 2011
10:01 pm
Wake up everyone and smell the coffee. The superintendent hides alot of stuff from the Board members to preserve his appointed job. You would really be shocked to know how many things are covered up and put under the rug by principals and superintendents. Infact, the rug has gotten so high off the floor everything is ready to explode. You will find athletic players are not punished as harshly as other students. Even if they are involved in the same thing and at the same time as other students. All the discipline has gotten out of hand not only in our community but in the State of Georgia and the Nation. Administrator are evidently afraid to punish certain students. And, evidently afraid to punish any student. As a former administrator, I would say….read the rules and explain them to the students and if they do not want to abide by them send them home. And, I know some of you are saying Oh! that will miss up the AYP in attendance. Well so be it. As, a principal and a superintendent you have to guarantee the safety of your students. And, playing pattie cake with the trouble makers is wrong. Let them know that school is where you come to learn not to do drugs, drink alcohol, have sex, Oh, yes there have been those who have had sex on campus,
Wake up and smell the coffee. If things like this are going on, and they are! You need to ask your board of education to get rid of the superintendent and the principals, If you know of instances where things have happened call your Board of Education Member let them be aware of what is going on in the schools. Because, the Board Members are the last ones to know. Remember you have a right to call your Board of Education Member, they are elected to represent you and your district. So have at it.
junkmonkey
November 28th, 2011
10:17 pm
We could solve some our problems by having an ELECTED SCHOOL SUPERIMTENDENT and ELECTED BOARD MEMBERS. I am tired of people coming in and running the schools who really do not know the community and possibly do not care. They are just wanting the BIG BUCKS. By having all of them elected, you would have a superintendent who would be at REAL STAKE HOLDER in the school system and not just some fly by night person who is only going to stay on the average 4 years. AND, with an elected school superintendent you could vote him/her in or out in four years based on how you as a taxpayer feels they have done their job. And, their will be none of this money to pay them if they are asked to leave the way it is now. You see the screwups stay because counties cannot afford to get rid of them.
YES LET THE PEOPLE HAVE A CHOICE IN WHO WILL BE THEIR SUPERINTENDENT!!! LET US HAVE ELECTED SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENTS AND ELECTED SCHOOL BOARDS.
The local board members need to realize that the superintendent works for you not the other way around.
Joy in Teaching
November 29th, 2011
6:53 am
@ Good Mother So stating state law that protects minors is considered whining? Your troll status is secure.
Ole Guy
November 30th, 2011
3:18 pm
Regarding the issue of violence within the schools, today’s topic du jour, rates of prego, and the myriad “problems” which are thrashed over daily with no apparent solutions…parents; teachers…START SWINGING! I realize, all too well, that the general consensus toward any thought of returning to the (tried and proven) old ways is one of disdain and total rejection. Well, let’s take a brief look at the “modern” methodologies in dealing with kids…THEY DON’T FREQUIN WORK!! As evidenced by the recurring themes we see; as evidenced by the objective results all around us in what passes as modern contemporary society: rotten college performances, piss poor public education, a Country whose “booming industries” lie in the penal/corrections” sectors, etc, etc, etc…isn’t it about time we start considering the fact that there is simply no other way to deal with kids, particularly kids who insist on bucking all means of growing up NORMALY.
Don’t misunderstand my words…I, and thousands of my generation, got into all sorts of poo poo; we also had our sixes tanned up quite a lot; we also has ALL, and I mean ALL privileges, associated with teen life outside the confines of home and school, revoked for long long periods of time. WE LEARNED, FROM THE EARLIEST DAYS, THE MEANING OF REAL…REPEAT, REAL…CONSEQUENCES WERE. Somehow, despite all this terrible treatment, we grew up, fought a few wars, learned that life contains both good stuff and not so good stuff, and that we just gotta deal with it. All-too-many of us learned…still in our teens and early 20’s…by direct experience, not because we wanted to, but because we were called upon to do so…that WE, AND WE ALONE, had to take life’s high roads, or die tryin..
We insist on pissing around so damn much with these kids; all we’re doing is producing generations of softies who will never learn to fight their ways out of the proverbial paper bag; who will always be reliant of someone else doing their dirty work while they continue to insist on exercising rights which were never earned.
Keep it up, people…social promotions/promotions by (what was it, Prof?) some sort of idiotic “committee”, college kids majoring in remedials, etc, etc, etc. You’re doin just great, people. Piss an’ moan over those who knowingly abuse our tax monies, over those who have neither the spine nor the spheroids to simply do what’s right. Stay scared, people…scared of your kids, scared of eachother; scared of your very selves…too scared that you just might make the wrong decisions in dealing with these kids who are, in not too many years, going to grow up to be just like YOU.
Should schools tell parents when there are lock-downs? | Get Schooled
November 30th, 2011
3:54 pm
[...] I asked a few days ago whether schools are under reporting violence or threats of violence. I cited a note that I had received from a knowledgeable source that Atlanta Public Schools had failed to alert parents to lock-downs at Grady High School and the New Schools of Carver, and that the incidents exposed a troubling lack of coordination between APS and Atlanta Police. [...]
Should schools tell parents when there are lock-downs? | Atlanta-ON.us
November 30th, 2011
5:23 pm
[...] I asked a few days ago whether schools are under reporting violence or threats of violence. I cited a note that I had received from a knowledgeable source that Atlanta Public Schools had failed to alert parents to lockdowns at Grady High School and the New Schools of Carver, and that the incidents exposed a troubling lack of coordination between APS and Atlanta Police. [...]
Should schools tell parents when there are lockdowns? | Atlanta-ON.us
November 30th, 2011
7:37 pm
[...] I asked a few days ago whether schools are under reporting violence or threats of violence. I cited a note that I had received from a knowledgeable source that Atlanta Public Schools had failed to alert parents to lockdowns at Grady High School and the New Schools of Carver, and that the incidents exposed a troubling lack of coordination between APS and Atlanta Police. [...]