Study concluding teachers are overpaid designed “to denigrate teachers and chastise their unions”
I received this thoughtful response to the blog earlier this week on the American Enterprise Institute/Heritage Foundation study on teacher pay that concluded teachers, for their education levels and their job requirements, are overpaid when both salary and benefits are tallied.
Many of you said the researchers and their organizations represented an anti-public sector viewpoint and the results were clearly designed to support their politics. Researcher Jordan Solomon agrees.
Solomon is a graduate fellow at George Washington University and attended the presentation of the research. Solomon sent me this note after reading the blog. With Solomon’s permission, here is the response:
Yesterday I attended the Heritage Foundation and AEI’s presentation on their study on teacher pay that you have discussed on your blog over the past two days. I am currently a Graduate Fellow at GW researching measurement issues in education therefore I am well acquainted with measuring the value of teachers. After reading the report of the study it appeared to me that AEI had their desired results in mind before they looked at the data. I would like to point out some of the technical problems with the report as well as describe to you the atmosphere at the event.
First, the report attempted to determine the appropriate wage for teachers by running a regression on salaries and controlling for ability level among other facts. In Human Capital Theory, it is commonly recognized that wage is determined by a combination of cognitive factors and non-cognitive factors. Nobel Prize Winner and University of Chicago Economist James Heckman proved this through his work on the GED.
The Heritage/AEI study employed a human capital equation that only included a proxy for cognitive ability, but not non-cognitive ability. In essence, the report is claiming that the public should value teachers based on the scores they received on standardized tests such as the SAT, GRE and Armed Forces Qualifications test. According to Heckman and Rubinstein 2001 “Both types of skill (cognitive and non-cognitive) are valued in the market and affect schooling choices. Our finding challenges the conventional signaling literature, which assumes a single skill. It also demonstrates the folly of a psychometrically oriented educational evaluation policy that assumes cognitive skills to be all that matter.”
The public values teachers for their communication skills, their ability to control a classroom, the ability to connect, inspire and motivate students and ability to solve problems. None of these traits is captured by simple proxies for academic ability. As a result, if teachers’ non-cognitive abilities are highly valued in the workplace, then neglecting to control for non-cognitive ability could lead to results are biased and misleadingly suggest that teachers have lower levels of ability than the rest of the population.
Secondly, and most telling, when determining the value of education, or really any other investment, the general practice is to maximize the return on investment by investing up to the point where marginal benefit equals marginal cost. Reputable studies done by James Heckman, George Psacharopoulos and many others have shown a huge return from education, in some cases as high as 35 percent (Psacharopoulos 1994). The education and economic community generally agree that we are investing far too little in our teachers and our schools.
When I confronted the presenters on these issues, they said they were unconcerned with the social benefits of education. The Founding Fathers knew how important an education system is to creating a productive workforce and an educated voting population. As Thomas Jefferson said, “I think by far the most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, for the preservation of freedom and happiness…Preach, my dear Sir, a crusade against ignorance; establish & improve the law for educating the common people. Let our countrymen know that the people alone can protect us against these evils and that the tax which will be paid for this purpose is not more than the thousandth part of what will be paid to kings, priests and nobles who will rise up among us if we leave the people in ignorance.”
The argument boils down to the question of whether we should reward and incentivize teachers for the social benefit they provide to their community.
Finally, the mood in the room was very interesting. By the end of the discussion it became clear that the two opposing forces were 1. The authors who held the stage but had not spent much time teaching in a k-12 classroom and 2. A group of informed educators, union leaders and education policymakers in the audience who have devoted their lives to students.
To the surprise of many of the educators in the room, the presenters said it was appropriate to assume no difference between public schools and private schools. When confronted by an employee for an association representing retired teachers, the presenters admitted that their goal from the outset was to demonstrate that the benefits for teachers were too high. It would appear that Heritage and AEI set out to produce a paper that allowed conservative governors to denigrate teachers and chastise their unions for the “high” salaries and cushy benefits paid to teachers. I hope that lawmakers don’t use this study to take benefits away from teachers and marginalize public sector workers.
I hope that this has helped to enhance your understanding of some of the many issues at play in this debate. Please note that the views in this paper are solely the views of the author and not that of GWU or any other institution.
Sincerely,
Jordan Solomon
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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188 comments Add your comment
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
November 3rd, 2011
4:03 am
Good teachers are paid too little. Poor teachers are paid too much.
long time educator
November 3rd, 2011
4:50 am
I appreciate you publishing the other side of this issue. I think Mr. Soloman is right; the study was done with a political agenda against teacher’s benefits.
I also agree that teaching itself is an art beyond just subject matter knowledge. It does involve inspiring, crowd control, and people skills. However, these skills need to be in addition to content knowledge; they are not a substitute for it. I have commented before that we need to require all teachers to have a real major in a real subject and then do a long internship in a school learning the art of teaching from a veteran. It does not help our cause to defend the micky mouse colleges of education; we need to reform teacher preparation. It is a joke.
Chris
November 3rd, 2011
4:52 am
It was disappointing to see the Heritage Foundation not consider the future investment education can provide if properly done. Since Mr. Solomon quoted Jefferson I would like to add the following from President John Adams, “Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among the people.” Thank you for publishing Mr. Solomon’s well thought response.
teacher&mom
November 3rd, 2011
5:11 am
I read the report and the comments on this blog and others. It frightens me to consider we may be turning a corner on how we view compensation. Do we really want a economic system that ONLY rewards the high test scores? The Heritage report seems to indicate that less than stellar test scores taken in your late teen’s and early 20’s is an indicator of your job performance for the rest of you life. I personally chafe at that idea.
Even teachers contributed to the idea that a high school teacher is smarter than an elementary school teacher and, therefore, deserves more pay. I find that sad.
Dedication, willingness to improve, and professional growth should be more important that an SAT, ACT, or Armed Forces test you took in high school. IMHO.
Peter Smagorinsky
November 3rd, 2011
5:37 am
In case anyone’s interested, I wrote something at http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/the-latest-in-free-market-educational-solutions/2011/09/19/gIQAEd4rfK_blog.html that similarly makes the point that AEI “research” simply provides manufactured evidence for pre-ordained conclusions. It includes a response by the author whose work I question, and my response to his response.
Fled
November 3rd, 2011
5:43 am
Maureen, thanks for posting this thoughtful and intelligent reply. This study illustrates the way that republicans approach things: since they have no real facts to support their ideology, they simply make them up as they go along. In the end, we get “research” unworthy of the name, designed and intended only to support their pre-conceived ideological biases. Unfortunately for them, reality has a distinctly anti-republican bias. Unfortunately for everyone else, the only truly infinite force in the universe is republican stupidity.
The idea that teachers are overpaid in the USA is so laughably foolish and stupid that only a republican would claim such a thing. And only a republican could believe it.
In my current position, I make low six figures tax-free (take that, republicans), get free housing, get free insurance (including medical care, hospitalization, and medicine), free tuition for my children at a very good international school, a car allowance, and annual tickets home for me and my family. The work I am doing is very high-stress and difficult, but also incredibly rewarding. For all the benefits, the absolute best thing, however, is that I never see or talk to any republicans. I could almost forget republicans exist if I weren’t a rabid fan of Maureen’s blog.
So, teachers, here we go again. Now, republicans are down to conducting “research” to prove their ideology that you are overpaid. Like being the target of these jerks?
Give up. Throw in the towel. Flee.
TheRog
November 3rd, 2011
6:12 am
So the report says based on cognitive factors, teacher aren’t really that smart compared to other professions. After 30 years of being a classroom teacher and now witnessing the attacks on our education system I must admit… becoming a teacher is the dumbest thing I’ve ever done and anyone else that wants to be a teacher under today’s conditions must be really dumb.
patrick crabtree
November 3rd, 2011
6:24 am
I can’t say it is all Republicans that believe this either. Dumb a** Democrats who don’t do their homework buy into the rhetoric, also. That is why we have the leadership problems in Education and they profess to be Democrats. They forget that they are talking about their salaries, too. They think because they are management that they are immuned and foster the bullsh*t. I am a well informed Democrat and have been fighting this fight for quite a while. EDUCATORS need to know EVERYTHING about their job is political and they need to be able to argue back IMMEDIATIATE, even be proactive before this crap is put out by the pundits who want to return to the 1950’s.
HadIt
November 3rd, 2011
6:25 am
It’s hard to take seriously anything from the Heritage Foundation. This is the same bunch that says that Barney Frank alone, with no help from Wallstreet or any Republican politician, caused the financial meltdown.
jeff
November 3rd, 2011
6:41 am
Wonderful work and well written by Jordan Solomon (and thank you Maureen Downey for sharing this info). Once again the CONservatives set out to prove their point instead of letting the facts speak for themselves. Should we ask teachers if they are paid to little for what they do? Perhaps CONservative researchers are being paid to much for shoddy work?
catlady
November 3rd, 2011
6:54 am
Thank you for publishing this. Ultimately, however, those who have never taught, or have taught briefly more than 5 years ago, or who even just went to first grade in their lives, believe they know everything about education/teaching today. And, like fools, they believe they should make decisions based on those “experiences.” We have this nationally, at the state level, and locally. Those of us actually DOING it should be free to call them for the fools they are.
James
November 3rd, 2011
6:56 am
Good teachers are paid too little; however, poor teachers are paid too much. We MUST address getting rid of the poor teachers.
Look at the FACTS, teachers have the lowest average SAT scores among all college graduates.
Sam
November 3rd, 2011
6:56 am
The Heritage Study confirms imperfectly what parents and taxpayers know intuititively. Teachers are overpaid more than they are underpaid.
We know our chidlren’s teachers. Some great. Some awful. Some pedestrian.
We remember the students that chose education as a major in college and we remember the “rigor” of thier studies.
We know that the sum of the compensation paid to teachers is much more than their pay and accross the country, we know that total compensation has escalated beyond all reason. As for the critique of the study: Can you imagine the howls of anger if the Heritage Study had included “non cognitive factors” in determining that teachers are overpaid? Notice that the reviewer did not suggest that including such factors (whatever they are) would have changed the outcome.
James
November 3rd, 2011
7:00 am
Right on Sam at 6:56!
Logic 88
November 3rd, 2011
7:03 am
This entire blog is just a sham in support of ineffective education. Teachers should want to clean up their ranks. Teaching 10 months a year and demanding higher salaries merely because of your degree is a joke. Salaries should be based on how well you do your job.
Karl Marx
November 3rd, 2011
7:21 am
teacher&mom is “scared that we are changing how we view compensation” Oh please. All you teachers better get your head out of the sand and look at what has happened in the private sector. Companies no longer provide a retirement plan. What is offered in a employee funded 401K type plan. Now they are dropping health coverage in favor of an HSA Savings plan and a high deductible insurance policy. Private companies no longer provide employee benefits to amount to anything.. Public employees are just a little bit behind the rest of us but it is coming. Welcome to your new world.
outsider
November 3rd, 2011
7:27 am
@Sam: Yes, Solomon did not “suggest that including such factors would have changed the outcome”. This is probably because, unlike the Heritage Foundation, Solomon prefers to not predetermine the outcome of research.
Dr NO / Mr Sunshine
November 3rd, 2011
7:30 am
Slice the pie anyway you like the bottom line is teachers are overpaid.
There, I said it!
GB
November 3rd, 2011
7:33 am
“The education and economic community generally agree that we are investing far too little in our teachers and our schools.”
????? We are spending a fortune on schools. More “investment” is not the answer.
verdi73
November 3rd, 2011
7:39 am
Mr. Karl Marx,
Money is automatically deducted from our paychecks to fund the Teacher Retirement Plan, and this deduction has increased in recent years, plus many of us take additional money out and invest in a private retirement plan. Also, we have the HRA plan, and high deductable plan for insurance, many other “perks” are gone, or we have to pay for them too. This is all on top of 10 furlough days AND insurance premiums hikes. And before some you say it, yes, I and my wife(both teachers) are glad we have jobs, but we still have bills to pay on less and less money each year, and we now work additional jobs to make up the difference. I am not complaining, but just felt compelled to inform. Now I have to go to work. Have a great day everyone.
wow
November 3rd, 2011
7:42 am
Let’s put pay in perspective……… teachers pay for their advanced degrees to get a raise and now that has been taken away. The steps for years of experience stop at 22+ years so what are teachers supposed to do after that with the cost of living and furlough days?
I just get tired of everyone resenting teachers. When did this rhetoric start? I think you need to realize that the teachers in Georgia still do not make what starting teachers in NY or other northern states make. The people making serious money are superintendents and assistant superintendents and titled jobs that superintendents make up so their retired buddies can have another source of income.
Why don’t we scrutinize the salaries of other state employees who get most of their retirement unlike teachers who only get 2% of what they paid in? Other state employees do not have to go to college and still bank on the state’s monies.
Who decides what is reasonable salary for people?
John K
November 3rd, 2011
7:52 am
This is just more of many on the right who want to demonize education.
Progressive Humanist
November 3rd, 2011
7:54 am
Actually, GB, we are spending the exact same amount of money on regular education students as we were spending 40 years ago, when adjusted for inflation. Any increases in money spent per student have come solely through a huge increase in the amount of money spent on special education students. It’s a myth that we spend more now on education (with the exception of special education students). Do you suggest we spend even LESS on regular education students? Or that special education students be deprived of services they may need? What’s your solution? What we’re spending a fortune on is defense (against an enemy that doesn’t even have tanks, much less aircraft or missiles) and on giving corporations and “job creators” tax break after tax break, which only seem to result in fewer and fewer jobs.
East Cobb Parent
November 3rd, 2011
8:08 am
I think both sides bring up valid points. I’ve heard many times on this blog, from teachers, that if we paid more we could recruit better educated teachers. It seems the Heritage foundation makes that statement in a different way. As for compensation, you must look beyond the amount in your paycheck. Recently, a teacher was complaining about pay and compensation. I then gave her the numbers that we pay for health care, no dental, no vision, 401K, no other pension etc. She had a 1000/savings compared to our contributions and she received both vision and dental in her plan. This teacher had been working a similar number of years with a masters degree. The question may be where do you want the compensation in benefits or salary. When we finished the calculations, there was not a significant difference in overall pay. We decided to call the number of hours even since both professions worked many hours from home.
As to what we spend on education, we all know that the central offices are heavy. Many of these middle management positions should be eliminated. Do you really need all the Area Supervisors?
Mom of 2
November 3rd, 2011
8:08 am
It is ridiculous to say that teachers are overpaid. It is one of those professions that does not attract workers for the awesome pay & tangible benefits, it is one that attracts those most interested in helping shape our future by making a difference in children’s lives. One could take a 27K entry-level position at any corporation and look at the opportunities to advance up the corporate ladder. Those opportunities aren’t there for teachers. Hopping from system to system isn’t going to advance your pedigree. There are modest raises & tenure systems, but those seem to be tempered with furloughs & cutbacks in benefits. Sure, there are teachers in the classroom who probably shouldn’t be, as there are people in all professions who are just not good at their jobs. But the majority put in so many extra hours to ensure the success of the students. My older son’s 1st grade teacher, who is amazing, tells me she is at the school until 7 or 8 almost every night making sure that each student in her class of 22 gets the individualized attention he or she needs. I can’t imagine putting in 12+ hour days for a job where I am constantly scrutinized by hundreds of parents, having to manage 22 individuals with unique needs and having to start over again every year with a new set of charges. We should be looking at ways to pay more to the people who make a real difference in our lives.
HS Public Teacher
November 3rd, 2011
8:10 am
Dr. NO – Your superficial summation is exactly why the public opinion is swayed incorrectly. I pity your children and grandchildren.
MiltonMan
November 3rd, 2011
8:10 am
Solomon complains about using tests like SAT & GRE to evaluate teachers yet teachers evaluate students based on test scores. Oh my the contradiction!
Also, the statement by the loon about union leaders dedicating their lives to students??? Union leaders are only concerned about their little monopoly known as a union.
Anyone who has attended college knows that an education degree is perhaps the easiest degree to obtain.
commoncents
November 3rd, 2011
8:11 am
teacher&mom: “Even teachers contributed to the idea that a high school teacher is smarter than an elementary school teacher and, therefore, deserves more pay. I find that sad.”
I didn’t have a single teacher growing up who could not teach me how to count to 10, but I only had a few that understood calculus. Some subject material is more challenging and requires more education and a higher level of understanding than others.
catlady
November 3rd, 2011
8:16 am
Before you say anyone is overpaid, do their job for a month, and see if you earn the salary they get. Of course, you have to do as good a job as they do.
EVERY SINGLE parent I have had sub or spend the day, or even part of a day, with us has come away saying, “I had no IDEA!”
MiltonMan
November 3rd, 2011
8:17 am
Techers are entitled to a very cushy pension plan & a 401(k) plan. How many private companies offer a pension plan anymore? Very few.
BehindEnemyLines
November 3rd, 2011
8:17 am
Thomas Jefferson didn’t anticipate the vast number of leeches feeding at the public trough.
Sam
November 3rd, 2011
8:19 am
They only work nine months a year
Sparky
November 3rd, 2011
8:19 am
This rejoinder is as helpful as the original study.
You get the teachers you pay for (on avg) and we don’t pay.
“The paper doesn’t really show that we pay teachers enough. It shows that the skill level of the teaching workforce is, on average, commensurate with the pay level. Pay teachers badly, and you’ll get a lot of bad teachers. (Again, plenty of exceptions can be found.) If we paid teachers more, we’d get better teachers.” -Jonathan Chait
commoncents
November 3rd, 2011
8:20 am
catlady, can I choose which month to come in? July is usually nice
Ole Guy
November 3rd, 2011
8:22 am
I do not see where teachers’ pay can possibly be a point of contention. The total remuneration package appears to be more than adequate. The issues, in my view, center on the environment in which these folks are expected to do a job, and the extraeous conditions over which they wield little (if any) control. Routine layoffs and potentially career-altering evals, conducted more under the influence of political expediency than actual job performance combine to create stresses which are not the result of the job for which they were hired. Adding to this…the fact that they must be able to manage a generation(s) of kids which know absolutely nothing of consequences for ones’ actions and behavior…and you have the perfect recipie for ocupational disaster.
Teachers are being called upon to be far far more than (simply) teachers. They must be parents, mediators, advisors, paper pushers, and assume half a dozen roles for which the traditional job of teacher was never intended. To amplify these issues, they toil under a managerial cloud which places their welfare dead last if not completely off the radar of managerial responsibility.
Teacher salary and remuneration is probably one to be quite proud of. The problem, as with any job of responsibility, is CONTROL over the conduct of the job.
MiltonMan
November 3rd, 2011
8:22 am
catlady, I will be more than happy to swap jobs with a teacher for a week. I am an engineer whose work could have life/death consequences on other human beings. Can a teacher say that? Does any teacher have the required skills to do my job?
Teacher complain more than any other professional group that I know. We spend alot of money at the federal, state & local levels for education yet teachers complain about how rough it is? Do you think any other group has suffered layoffs, plant foreclosures, etc.
Compassion Fatigue
November 3rd, 2011
8:24 am
So, what you teachers are saying is that you are all underpaid and if your pay and benefits increase the end result (students performing above and beyond the current level) will magically be awesome?
There is nothing like sitting in P-T conferences with the expectation to talk about how well your child is doing and how to get even better results and the teacher(s) consistently complaing about their current dismal state. Nevermind that they know many of their parents have lost jobs and are suffering right along with them. It is ALWAYS all about them and how they are so much better and deserve so much more than they are getting.
All government employees are in for a huge awakening and don’t expect the sympathy you think you deserve. The pity party has gone on long enough!
Elaine
November 3rd, 2011
8:24 am
This gentleman’s response is what’s missing in our news media toay–in-depth, detailed analysis. So much of what we get are glossed-over, generalized, sensationalized “drive-bys” that don’t really dig into the meat of a story or study or bill or whatever. Thank you, Maureen for publishing this. Whether we agree with it or not, we are all smarter for having read it. (Unlike much of what this rag publishes…)
Dr NO / Mr Sunshine
November 3rd, 2011
8:24 am
HS Public Teacher
November 3rd, 2011
8:10 am
LOL. Like you know anything, teacher.
Those who can, do.
Those who cant, teach.
Fits like a glove now doesnt it….AHH AHHAHAAA HAHA H AHAHAA!!!
Rich Panarese
November 3rd, 2011
8:26 am
America’s spending on education, in real dollar terms, has tripled over the last 40 years with no appreciable change in outcomes. This doesn’t include capital spending which is often considered off books. Public school employment has increased 10 times faster than public school enrollment since 1970. We’ve moved to barely middle of the pack in reading, math and science. Slovakia’s total per-student cost is less than York City’s current per-student deficit — and the Slovak kids beat the United States at mathematics, which may explain why the budget arithmetic of most of the education systems lobby and labor unions still have a passing acquaintanceship with reality
Rural Georgia
November 3rd, 2011
8:26 am
Having worked in post-secondary education for 17 years, the problem is the same. There are a handful of people called to teach who do it for the love of teaching and investing in people and then there are the vast majority who teach because of the perks and pay, who have never put in 40 hours teaching (on campus or at home). The former are underpaid and the latter are ruining the quality of education.
HS Public Teacher
November 3rd, 2011
8:27 am
My school is a “high performing” school in North Fulton. For a couple of years there has been a core of tremendous teachers by any measure. The students of these core teachers excel. Their scores on all standardized tests are well above any local, State, or National average and are usually in the upper 90 percentile. These students score perfect or near perfect on the SAT. These students get into the top colleges (Harvard, MIT, etc.).
However, the job requirements at my school for teachers are changing to conform. We are beginning to be required to produce calandars, daily documents of essential quesitons and daily GPS, copy and store student work samples, PLC meetings, etc. None of this work required by teachers helps the teacher with students. All of this is to conform to the school system requirements of documentation. All of this DOES consume time by the teacher and subtracts time the teacher COULD use to create/improve lessons for the student.
Every grading period, each teach must create a file for each period. We must print out the grades for each student. We must print out the attendance for each student. We must print out the assignments given during that grading period. And, so on. This is just more useless work piled onto the teacher every 6 weeks. By the way, all of this information that teachers must print out and place in a file is already in the computer system!
What does this mean?
For the student, it means not-as-good lessons. If the teacher must spend their time doing this required documentation, then there is less time for the teacher to teach and prepare.
For the teacher, it means a miserable job. The core teachers that are there for the students are getting frustrated because they (and everyone) can clearly see what is happening. These core teachers are already grumbling and looking for other work. A couple of them have already left in the middle of the year. This is the “brain drain” for education.
SBinF
November 3rd, 2011
8:28 am
I’ll make about 38k this year as a teacher. If that’s overpaid, Herman Cain is a viable GOP presidential candidate. I don’t have a pension (a 401k, like everyone else in the private sector). I graduated from a top tier research university in Atlanta. I scored in the 90th percentile on the GRE…..so yeah, all you folks complaining about teacher pay should sign up as teachers if you think the job is so cushy. Unfortunately, many folks can barely parent their own children, much less take charge of a classroom full of kids.
It’s amazing that so many people who’ve never set foot inside a classroom have the prescription for improving teacher quality.
Dr NO / Mr Sunshine
November 3rd, 2011
8:31 am
HS Public Teacher
November 3rd, 2011
8:10 am
PS…my son graduated and no thanks to most of his teachers. I had to constantly go to his school and ride their asses and embarrass them in front of one another. Which BTW I thoroughly enjoyed. Like the teacher who never lectured only would show films in class or give assignments then sit in the back of the room playing on the internet. What a joy it was to discuss his actions and assist him in seeing what a fool he truly was.
You holier than thou teachers with your pius, haughty attitudes are part of the problem. Most schools are just a henhouse run amuck full of overweight diet coke drinking biscuit eaters.
Dr NO / Mr Sunshine
November 3rd, 2011
8:33 am
HS Public Teacher
November 3rd, 2011
8:27 am
Oh!! We are so blessed to have you. Take $20 out of petty cash.
SBinF
November 3rd, 2011
8:34 am
Dr. No,
You should try spell check before you post, if you don’t know how to spell words.
There, now don’t say a teacher’s never taught you anything.
The words are “pious” and “amok.”
You’re welcome.
HS Public Teacher
November 3rd, 2011
8:34 am
Dr. NO – You are such a perfect example of the problem. Thank you for continuing to display that with every post of yours.
Teacher of 30 years
November 3rd, 2011
8:37 am
To MiltonMan: Solomon was not complaining about standardized tests scores for evaluating teachers. He pointed to the fact that the standardized tests scores were the only criteria used to determine the salary. If you read the article carefully, he was trying to make the point that there is much more to teaching than just the result of a standardized test score.
My education degree was not easily earned. It is members of society like you that do not understand the true art of teaching. If someone earns a degree in Applied Physics, that is no indication that the degree was difficult to earn. That person could have been quite good at physics therefore the degree was easy to earn. Teaching involves so much. If it is so easy to teach and earn a degree in education, let’s see those who say this go into a classroom for one week and then tell me how easy it is. With your view on education, I hope you home school your children because you definitely don’t think the teachers are capable. Or let me guess, you don’t have any children…………….. Come walk a week in my shoes and then tell me what I earn is too much or that my degree was so easy to earn because what I do does not require much skill…………..
Dr NO / Mr Sunshine
November 3rd, 2011
8:38 am
No public sector employee. You and your entitlement attitudes is the perfect example. I dont feel any sympathy for you teachers. You chose your profession then found out teaching actually involved a little work, summers off werent as grand and now believe your compensation is to low. OH!! and you all “care” for THE CHILDREN.
You are a joke.
Progressive Humanist
November 3rd, 2011
8:38 am
MiltonMan,
We judge students on SAT and GRE scores because they are moving on to another level of education, as students, and that’s exactly what those tests were designed to measure. Those tests were never meant to be job performance evaluations, and they’re not. Sure, it would be nice if teachers on average had higher test scores, but if the pay was better the occupation would probably attract those with higher scores. But it’s also worth noting that high school teachers have higher GRE scores than those in most other professions, including school administrators and business majors (who have among the lowest- not so high in verbal or quant) and are usually about the same level as engineers. My GRE was a 1250, which at the time was about the average for any graduate student getting into an Ivy league college.
As for retirement plans, when I was in a public school I paid for both my 403b plan and the teachers’ retirement plan, and the school paid some into them as well, but they also paid no money into social security, none, so when it’s all said and done I will only have my own private retirement funds. And I will have paid the bulk of that myself.