College employees must agree to no premarital or gay sex. No drinking where students might see them.

Tony

October 29th, 2011
4:10 pm

Jesus sent a harsh rebuke to the legalists, pharisees and saducees or His day. This action is a sad commentary of the legalism run amok among today’s Baptists. Actions like this do not work to “transform lives through Christ,” but harm the message of the divine Gospel.

catlady

October 29th, 2011
4:34 pm

And students are free to leave (and should) if this is the way this “institution of higher learning” wants to operate.

I don’t buy the arguement that Shorter COLLEGE can do whatever it wants because it serves as a “pass through” for federal aid. That financial aid is SPENT at that college, to pay tuition, room and board, etc. SO, it goes to the college. The students would not get the aid if they were not going to college (it’s not like an auto loan). IF Shorter College (how many PhDs do they offer?) wants to fund its students all by itself, with no federal or state aid for students, fine, then they can require anything they want, but they will have to pay the piper themselves. I think the law prof is full of it. See the Oral Roberts U case.

J sebastian

October 29th, 2011
4:39 pm

I would run as fast as I can from such an institution. Blinded children becoming blinded adults,,,,, Face the music, this world, God made is filled with diversity. Wake Up!

CJ

October 29th, 2011
5:14 pm

a Christian University with Christian standards makes the news now? What in the world…
I suppose they would have been better off if they had said they were now gay-friendly and ‘tolerant’…the Bible doesn’t change, Tony and others.

BTW, Tony: what ‘church’ do you beloing to that would see allowing unrepentant, immoral professors as aiding transformation of lives through Christ? Jesus said “Go and sin no more”….Jesus also preached on hell over 16 times, and in Revelations 2:18-29, He rebuked the church at Thyatira as follows:”Misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols”….God’s Word never changes…you can love the sinner, and bring the sinner to Jesus as we all came from sin, but don’t change what God’s Word has clearly spelled out.

CJ

October 29th, 2011
5:18 pm

if y’all picked on a Muslim school for doing the same thing, the outrage and lawsuits would be from coast to coast…what hypocrisy.

crystal

October 29th, 2011
5:19 pm

In Salem, all you had to do to be accepted back into the community was sign a confession of consorting with the Devil. If you refused to sign, you were obviously evil and sentenced to imprisonment and death.

CJ

October 29th, 2011
5:25 pm

Crystal, that’s an apples versus oranges analogy, as an institution of higher learning is a choice.
This is not about the students, it is about those in power/influence over the students.

If you can’t behave yourself or choose another ‘lifestyle’ incompatible with the school’s philosophy, then you should teach somewhere else. Choice is a wonderful thing. Teach elsewhere where your values are more clearly represented.

CJ

October 29th, 2011
5:28 pm

crystal–in this country, at least for now, you can choose where you want to work, go to college, etc.
In Salem, Mass. (I lived there as a small child, BTW), there was no freedom of religion, just hysteria in the community. A private Christian college can teach the doctrines of the Bible in America without harrassment (well, until recently)…

crystal

October 29th, 2011
5:34 pm

It’s all in the Biblical interpretation, CJ…..Yes, Jesus would say “render under Caesar,” but I think he would consider this also about Man and Man’s needs, rather than honoring God and building the good relationships with each other Jesus required of us.

CJ

October 29th, 2011
5:38 pm

that school has freedom of religion in a free country to uphold Biblical standards in whom they hire to influence the students. I think it is really interesting that the students are free, where in most conservative colleges, the student must also sign a pledge of some sort. Sounds like they are showing a lot of grace, as the professors are not told they cannot drink alcohol, but to only be careful as to how their behavior influences others.

CJ

October 29th, 2011
5:42 pm

the hippies of the 60’s always had a saying, “live and let live”…funny how that same generation has taught their kids and grandkids to sue anyone who disagrees with you religiously, instead of just walking away, and going to another school.

catlady

October 29th, 2011
5:55 pm

So, can the staffers have heterosexual, married sex IN FRONT of the students?

I don’t think a school can “profit” with taxpayer monies and “rules” like this. I sure don’t want MY money going to a school like this, and if the students are allowed to get federal aid, that is yours and my tax dollars.

TrishaDishaWarEagle

October 29th, 2011
6:05 pm

I am an atheist and I support this policy choice by Shorter college 100%. The most precious right of al is the right of association. I get to choose WHO I will associate or do business with, and so do they. It is nobody else s business..including the vile collective’s !

reebok

October 29th, 2011
6:06 pm

i hope students respond to this by transferring out and staying away from shorter in droves.

CJ

October 29th, 2011
6:10 pm

Catlady–they’re not profitting from your taxes, the loans follow the students…funny how you take up for public schools, yet they have crazy rules, step on my religion and others’ all day long, yet I have to pay for it!
http://aclj.org/ContentSearch?q=christian+colleges+who+accept+federal+funds&t=JusticeFile%2CLegalDoc&x=46&y=22
this group fights for the religious freedom of colleges such as shorter.

Elizabeth

October 29th, 2011
6:31 pm

This is a CHRISTIAN college. Like all other religions, including the SECULAR nonreligion that permeates and dominates our public educational institutions, Shorter has a right to require students and employees to pledge to follow Biblical principles. That is not judging. Judging comes when one of these principles is broken and people condemn the behavior of the individual.because others are influenced in a way that does not follow the principles endorsed by Shorter. Bill Clinton was crucified and judged both by SECULAR and religious communities when he committed adultery in the White House. Yet, when a CHRISTIAN college asks people to follow Christian ( Biblical) principles while attending a Christian university, secular and atheist nonbelievers feel free to act as if this requirement is unreasonable.

As a teacher, I am bound by a code of ethics. If I violate this code, I am subject to dismissal. When I sign my contract every year, one of the provisions I agree to is not to violate the code of ethics. Those who do not wish to follow Shorter’s “code of ethics”, i.e., the Bible, need not apply to work or study there. It is called freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. You have a right to your beliefs; Shorter, as a religious institution, has just as much right to insist that those who work and study there follow the principles of the institution. If you want to be free FROM these beliefs, do not attend or work at Shorter. Your rights and beleifs do not trump theirs. That is why this country was founded — to give all the right to practice their beliefs. Shorter is not imposing their beliefs on others. They are simply saying that you must adhere to them in order to be there. There are other institutions for those who disageee. Find one.

Make no mistake, Christians are under attack in this nation. If Shorter were Muslim, there would indeed be lawsuits– to make certain that they could practice their beliefs unhindered. It seems that Christians are losing that right. It scares me and outrages me.

CJ

October 29th, 2011
6:40 pm

well stated, Elizabeth! Freedom of religion is a right.
College faculty positions at Shorter College is a privilege, NOT a right in a free society.

Interesting how a Catholic Christian private school is being forced by some Muslims to add a prayer room for those who worship Allah, even though it is a PRIVATE college! I hope they continue to fight that one in the courts. It’s ridiculous, the double-standard. Try forcing a Muslim private college to add a prayer room for Jews or Christians: won’t happen, either in this country or anywhere else.
You are right, we are living on the edge of major persecution. Come, Lord Jesus.

Ann

October 29th, 2011
6:41 pm

I was a student at Shorter University not long ago when all of the legal battles with the Georgia Baptist Convention were happening. It was an exciting and nerve wracking time… the overwhelming majority of students, faculty, and administration did not want to be under the thumb of the GBC, and I think the people who decided it was time to try and succeed from the GBC were inspired to do so because of Mercer’s separation not long before. However, the GBC won, and whereas they had been a benign presence in the school before, they began to make an example of Shorter.

When I was at Shorter, it was already a Christian school. We had a certain number of Chapel attendance requirements we had to fulfill, and there was plenty of emphasis on Christian values, but I never felt it pushed on me. I actually opened up quite a bit as a Christian. I’d grown up in a Christian family and church, but I’d never really connected with it on a truly spiritual level until I got to Shorter. It was a loving atmosphere… very accepting and inclusive. I found intelligent discourse on spiritual matters with my peers, and always felt welcome to talk with my professors about just about anything. Many of those professors didn’t go to a local Baptist church (although many did, and I attended with them), and several of them were gay. It didn’t make one bit of a difference to me. These were good people, and they were wonderful professors.

Shorter is a private college, so yes…. they absolutely can do whatever they want within the limits of the law. My question is why? They’re not fixing anything, and in matters of the faith, Shorter was already a shining example. Of course they will not make students sign a Personal Lifestyle Statement, but that is because they can’t do that, lest they want to lose funding for scholarships. The GBC has slowly been taking control of the school. There are changes that I am fine with… requiring faculty members to be Christian, while narrow minded, is understandably their right and makes sense with a Baptist college. But to require things beyond the reach of the campus, such as making adults agree to not have a glass of wine out at a dinner on their own personal time, or to require that they reject homosexuality as acceptable, is not right, and does not send a message of love and acceptance to the students.

If Shorter were really interested in following the example of the Bible, they’d follow its greatest theme and lesson: love. Not judgement (for that is His job alone), not intolerance… but love. I’ll leave this with my favorite verse on this exact thing – 1 John 4:7 – Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.

Kilroy

October 29th, 2011
6:43 pm

yeah, everyone who goes there will sign the stupid pledge and then drive off somewhere else to partake in life on the weekends.
Reminds me of that stupid Bob Jones college in SC where it was illegal for interracial dating. Moronic. Oh yes! It’s an attack on Christians! We MUST pledge our virginity to God and disavow any drinking! Jesus wouldn’t like it! Meanwhile the chicks are humping anything w/ a zipper when they’re away! I so loved those catholic chicks on the weekends, they were wild!!!

no surprise

October 29th, 2011
6:47 pm

What’s with these people and alcohol? Jesus turned water into wine…he had no objection to drinking alcohol.

CJ

October 29th, 2011
6:52 pm

Ann–Read Revelations 2:18-29 and tell me that this Jesus is the same one whom you say said not to ‘judge’. If you take those two Scriptures together, judging is NOT what you say it is: calling sexual sin what it is: immorality. Is Jesus unloving, or are you taking God’s Holy Word out of context?

CJ

October 29th, 2011
6:54 pm

it’s about employer and employee code of ethics. Every workplace has it. If you can’t abide by the rules, you don’t get hired/keep your job.

This has nothing to do with the students, only EMPLOYEES.

College forbids employees to have premarital or gay sex….

October 29th, 2011
7:03 pm

[...] via College employees must agree to no premarital or gay sex. No drinking where students might see them….. [...]

crystal

October 29th, 2011
7:10 pm

Sorry, CJ, it impacts the students. The students may not be required to sign but it sends a clear message that this is acceptable behavior for employers, and those who are not employees. God does not ask us to sign anything. Agreement comes from within. Only Man requires signing a form as a measure of one’s religious beliefs. Oh, I’m sorry you feel like a persecuted Christian. I always thought belief in God should bring one joy.

DannyX

October 29th, 2011
7:16 pm

They should also ban divorced students and employees. Certainly not allow any divorced remarried women from working there. Jesus said God hates divorce.

Also anyone caught praying in public should immediately be expelled or fired. Jesus said God hates public prayer. Pray in private!!!!!

Truth

October 29th, 2011
7:16 pm

I think it makes perfect sense for a Christian organization to require that its employees follow Christian principals. What’s the big deal????

CJ

October 29th, 2011
7:37 pm

catlady–Elisabeth was the one who said it scared and outraged her. I have joy, and I’m sure she does too!. The Lord coming back is a joyful event for us. I fear for friends and family left behind.
Crystal–whether it does or doesn’t send a message is their choice and right as an employer of a private college.
If you work for someone, and I’m sure you probably do, you understand that an employer retains the right to hire and fire who they want to, correct?

CJ

October 29th, 2011
7:41 pm

Truth–the big deal is those who want to squash their religious freedoms.

You and I understand what the constitution says about the creator granting certain inalienable rights/freedoms, but some others are still bound by the god of this world who wants to enslave, their choice.

catlady

October 29th, 2011
7:43 pm

Truth: the problem is the source of the money to pay these staff members. A high percentage of the students get federal aid; very few pay their own way 100%.

CJ, the money follows the student, into the college’s pockets. In fact, after the college “awards” the loans/grants, and the money “comes in”, the college takes its cut out BEFORE disbursing anything left over to the student. Most students get NOTHING back out of this money, as it does not pay the whole bill.

I agree folks should work where they are philosophically comfortable, BUT THEY SHOULD NOT BE PAID WITH TAX MONEY WHEN THEY DISCRIMINATE AGAINST PROTECTED STATUS INDIVIDUALS!

CJ

October 29th, 2011
7:43 pm

Dannyx–if you think their rules are unfair or unBiblical, why don’t you write them a letter and complain?

CJ

October 29th, 2011
7:47 pm

catlady—tell the GBC about it. I have no idea where all of the money comes from.

I’m sure it is legal to receive those funds, as the ACLJ/ACLU are not in a war over it as we speak.

Keep in mind, my tax dollars pay for PPH abortions, sex indoctrination in public schools, etc., etc.

GAE

October 29th, 2011
8:01 pm

OK….a Christian school wants its employees to abide by Christian principles. What is so wrong about that? True followers of Christ have control over their bodies anyway. If someone wants to work there, they will follow the mandates. If you think that you cannot do that, choose a different employer. The only people who probably have a problem with this is liberals who emphasize “love” but relegate “self-control” as a non-essential.

DannyX

October 29th, 2011
8:06 pm

“Dannyx–if you think their rules are unfair or unBiblical, why don’t you write them a letter and complain?”

Why do Christians think they can pick and choose?

Tee

October 29th, 2011
8:15 pm

I AM REALLY NOT SURE WHAT TO SAY BUT IT DO NOT SEEM RIGHT TO TELL SOMEONE TO SIGN OR NOT WORK , IF I WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT THEY FELT THIS WAY I WAOULD NOT HAVE GOT MY Undergraduate AT SHORTER

j223

October 29th, 2011
8:18 pm

I worked at Shorter College/University…a really good Christian school. Shorter University is now a sub-par school that pretends to be Christian. It’s pretty sad to watch a bunch of righteous people run a good school into the ground. Really confusing on what they were trying to accomplish with this????

CJ

October 29th, 2011
8:28 pm

j223–basic Biblical rules about controlling your body causing this much issue? Unbelievable. I’m with GAE: any truly born-again person has no issue with these basic rules anyway.
I mean, it’s not like a dress code or how long to wear your hair, etc.

jim

October 29th, 2011
8:33 pm

Way to go Shorter!!! Your institution has the backbone to stand up for what the Bible defines as the family and to recognize that the biggest threat to the family is the gay lifestyle. The biggest threat to America is destruction from within which is being fueled by gays and other horrifically misguided lifestyles. Thank you Shorter for starting a tide against this perversion.

DannyX

October 29th, 2011
8:37 pm

“Way to go Shorter!!! Your institution has the backbone to stand up for what the Bible defines as the family and to recognize that the biggest threat to the family is the gay lifestyle.”

LMAO! The biggest threat to the family, by far, is DIVORCE! Jesus said nothing about gay people, but had something to say about DIVORCE!

Divorce is a CHOICE!

jim

October 29th, 2011
8:41 pm

Um Danny…the bible said that he who layeth with another man shall surely be put to death. Unfortunately, as a gay man, you know nothing of what the bible says. you refuse to acknowledge it. Sad. Repent

jim

October 29th, 2011
8:43 pm

I will agree danny that divorce is a threat, absolutely. but not nearly as big of one that preaches that the family is dad and dad, when the bible clearly says the family is man and woman…

DannyX

October 29th, 2011
8:44 pm

“Um Danny…the bible said that he who layeth with another man shall surely be put to death.”

Um, jim, Jesus said nothing about gay people. He sure did speak out against DIVORCE!

What makes places like Shorter and the Baptist church think they can ignore JESUS?

jim

October 29th, 2011
8:44 pm

and in hell, with their handcuffs and liberal beliefs, they lifted up their eyes…

jim

October 29th, 2011
8:45 pm

Shorter is leading by example Danny…get the moat out of your eye and read…

DannyX

October 29th, 2011
8:47 pm

In Luke 16:18 Jesus says:
Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

j223

October 29th, 2011
8:47 pm

CJ, do you work there..or have you ever been there? Or do you just troll around on this website? I left because the emphasis was being shifted away from academics and teaching to image and sports programs. This is an example of the powers that be want to instill another “image” of the school. I saw people that worked there being demoted because of rumors about sexual orientation and religious beliefs. Yes, rumors! Image is very shallow if the people running the show have little morals…regardless if they make everyone else sign a piece of paper.

GreatATLGuy

October 29th, 2011
8:48 pm

Shorter will soon implode because of this action, or as my mom used to say, “cut off its nose to spite its face. Shorter is about as “Christian” as Jim, CJ and Elizabeth’s thoughts are. This exclusionary, bigoted action is backwoods thinking at its worst. There is nothing Christian about it.

DannyX

October 29th, 2011
8:56 pm

King David and Jonathan were gay lovers.

There was a lot of heat there, and passion.

jim

October 29th, 2011
8:57 pm

I think Shorter will be prosper for following divine guidance to put aside major threats to personal morality. Hate the sin, love the sinner…but whatever you did, annihilate the sin or it will annihilate you (and our society).

jim

October 29th, 2011
8:59 pm

DannyX, you’re a lying, misguided sick man. And in hell e lifted up his eyes..David did commit a sin, he had Bathsheebas husband put in the front line to die in battle so he could have her. That sin cost him his sons life. Once again, read and don’t just believe the filthy lies of your homo brethern

I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...

October 29th, 2011
9:00 pm

CJ What in the world is “sex indoctrination in public schools”? Was that an elective I somehow missed? Sounds much more interesting than “Spanish II”.

I consider myself a Christian…though many of my fellow Christians likely do not, as I am one of those rare breeds known as a “liberal” Christian (worse than an atheist to some)… and I totally disagree with Shorter University’s viewpoint on what consitutes a true danger to the soul.

However, I do support their right to establish their own code of ethics as a private university.

DannyX

October 29th, 2011
9:02 pm

jim what are your sins?

You too CJ.

“Judge not lest ye be judged?”

What are your sins that will annihilate society?

CJ

October 29th, 2011
9:04 pm

Dannyx– no, but he defined marriage…read Revelations 2:18-29…Jesus said some pretty hard things. He preached on hell over 16 times. If you truly seek the Lord, and stop mocking, He will show you Himself.

Archie@Arkham Asylum

October 29th, 2011
9:10 pm

The Southern Baptist Convention and its vassal the Georgia Baptist Convention, have redefined chutzpah!

Progressive Humanist

October 29th, 2011
9:26 pm

Ha! I think Shorter, which is a joke of a school anyway, might want to focus their efforts on improving their academics instead. Employers want college graduates to be educated; they’re not interested in how well indoctrinated they were into the Shorter cult or how well they were taught to conform to Medieval beliefs.

kc

October 29th, 2011
9:26 pm

What an embarassment. How anti-Christian can you get!!?? Jesus is rolling over in his grave, Shorter University. Shorter, you miss the point completely. Please take your hate elsewhere.

Digger

October 29th, 2011
9:38 pm

I still want one of them talkin’ snakes.

Sandy

October 29th, 2011
9:47 pm

Christianity is the rootnof all evil!

Beth

October 29th, 2011
9:48 pm

What you might want to check into, Maureen, is just how long Shorter has been “upfront about its deep beliefs — its motto is “Transforming Lives Through Christ.” How long has the school had that motto? What is going on in student life at the moment? Many of these students and employees “signed on” with Shorter long before these changes were made. I don’t think Shorter has been all that “upfront” about its “deep beliefs” because the ones being imposed on the current students and employees are not the same beliefs that the school has shared since the 1800s.

jim

October 29th, 2011
9:54 pm

Thou shall not lie with mankind as with womankind,…. By carnal knowledge of them, and carnal copulation with them, and mixing bodies in like manner: this is the sin commonly called sodomy, from the inhabitants of Sodom, greatly addicted to it, for which their city was destroyed by fire: those that are guilty of this sin, are, by the apostle, called “abusers of themselves with mankind”, 1 Corinthians 6:9,

jim

October 29th, 2011
9:55 pm

Beth..things do change for the better sometimes..students should be happy..or maybe they can just leave..they aren’t required to sign anything; only their leaders are.

Veteran teacher, 2

October 29th, 2011
9:57 pm

I worked for a while at a Christian college. The administrators almost always worked from “they said”, “I heard….”. Honest disagreements led them to tell you that you were unChristian, and God told them what to do, therefore you cannot disagree with them. The most illogical policies and proceedures were passed off as the word from God. Adminstrators turned people against each other and openly expected people to “report” on each other.

I found a much more Christian atmosphere when I moved back into a public high school!!

Albert

October 29th, 2011
10:02 pm

Conservative Christians and Islamic fundamentalists are two peas in the same disturbed pod.

GAE

October 29th, 2011
10:32 pm

@KC…Jesus is not in the grave. He arose with all power tin heaven and earth….(Matt. 28:18)..but you don’t have to believe that Scripture…..or nay for that matter. But don’t counter with the “Judge not….” scripture… if you don’t believe the Scriptures.

Zz top

October 29th, 2011
10:36 pm

Jesus just left Chicago bound for new Orleans.

Ole Guy

October 29th, 2011
10:38 pm

Who’n hell do these people think they are, architects of the Blessed Trinity? Next thing on their agenda: must have marriage license on file; use of approved condoms bearing school colors. It would make a helluva lot more sense if they made prospective employees agree not to speed, cuss or make frowny faces.

Some time ago, there appeared, in this fine discussion venue, an arguement on the foisting of religious dogma upon the public by way of holding graduation ceremonies in churches, interjecting prayers into the ceremony itself. Apparently, the religious right/the EXTREME right, will always be upon us. Like bad weather in aviation, one would be foolish to fly directly into the storm…one simply diverts around the obstacle. Are college administrators going to follow employees around during their PRIVATE OFF TIME?

say what?

October 29th, 2011
10:40 pm

Why are women working there outside of the home, if this university strictly adheres to the bible? Get a grip and stop taking a political stand and using religion as the reason.

I bet Shorter will have a an increase in applications and prospective students after this media story. Yep, the media subsidized Shorter’s marketing budget and helped in its recruiting efforts. Every parent who is afraid of the multi-cultural world in which we reside, is looking for this type of school.

Scott

October 29th, 2011
10:45 pm

Why is this even an issue? A Christian college is just telling its employees to act like Christians. If you don’t want to act like a Christian… don’t work for a Christian college. Duh?

Truth in Moderation

October 29th, 2011
10:57 pm

Well at least they didn’t ban pedophiles or polygamists.
There’s still hope.

Paddy O

October 30th, 2011
12:59 am

liberals really are full of bs.

Paddy O

October 30th, 2011
1:00 am

at one time, the heading on this article was assumed for the general population. but along came The Great Society, and the era of government largesse, and morals were flushed down the tube. The feds now generate far more poverty than they ever solve.

Rockerbabe

October 30th, 2011
2:28 am

I see another branch of the catholic church is at it again. . .trying to control the personal lives of adults is not any of the school’s business. The students should take their money and go elsewhere and the employees should leave when it is advantageous to do so. This policy is well unamerican and should be rejected.

another comment

October 30th, 2011
3:27 am

Rockerbabe, you are obviously not Catholic. I went to a Catholic University. They have had Gay and Lesbian clubs for Students since the late 1970’s or early 1980’s. Catholic’s have always been very open about drinking. You can always tell a Catholic in a liquour store they fill up the cart, and have a bar in open display at home. Baptists buy one bottle at a time, and keep it in a paper bag in the pantry. The Catholic University I attended had a Pub on Campus. The Highlight of Senior year was going on a bus trip then a booze cruise in Annapolis, MD. with the Priests as the Chaparones. The big joke was the Priests always drank right along with you.

To all you hypocrate “Christians”, yes Catholic’s are Christian. We are the original Christian religion that Jesus and the Apostles founded. All the rest of you are only break off splinters, that wanted to make up your own rules to suit your selfs. For Example, The King in England wanted to get Divorced and remarried, so he started the Church of England aka the Episcapalians. Then came Martin Luther and the Lutheren’s etc.

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
3:58 am

anothe comment makes no sense

Bosch

October 30th, 2011
4:07 am

I have several problems with such actions as this, but the main one is Shorter’s misguided attempt to define what all Christians believe or that if you do not agree with this pledge you are not “acting Christian.” I find it very unfortunate when bigots such as Mr. Price and Dowless use the Bible as justification of their own prejudice and as such try in vain to mask their own intolerance by invoking the name of God. The Bible says not to use the name of the Lord in vain, and this is a perfect example of doing just that.

Jack

October 30th, 2011
7:22 am

Mention religion in any public forum and you’ve got a firefight. Nobody wins.

Edward

October 30th, 2011
8:16 am

Shorter can do whatever they want. But, it does prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that religionists are irrational and just downright stupid. Better that they come right out and identify themselves to the rest of the world so we can know who they are and avoid them.

Batgirl

October 30th, 2011
9:06 am

So, will Shorter fire a 20-year, tenured professor because he/she won’t sign this piece of paper?

I would have not trouble meeting their requirements of this document, but I would be really offended by being asked to sign it.

I wonder if this is not just an attempt to get rid of a few people that the administration doesn’t want but cannot fire.

What a shame. Shorter is taking its reputation as a decent liberal arts college and throwing it down the drain.

Lee

October 30th, 2011
9:08 am

Let’s see, a PRIVATE university with a BAPTIST affiliation whose business directly involves molding the character of impressionable young adults wants to set the TONE AT THE TOP by requiring it’s employees to act a certain way.

One truism that I have learned over the years is that “He who signs the check gets to make the rules”.

While we may or may not agree with Shorter’s policy, the fact remains that they have a legal right to do so and they write the checks. Simply put, if you don’t want to abide by their policy, don’t apply for a job there. If they cannot get enough qualified applicants due to this policy, then they will have to amend their policies or go out of business.

It’s really that simple.

Karen

October 30th, 2011
9:24 am

I’m not sure why this is such news. Shorter is a self-described conservative Christian school. The statement they are asking employees to sign is in line with what the Christian church teaches. I would expect a Christian school to hire employees who are in agreement with these principles. Other Christian schools ask the same. If an individual has different beliefs, then that individual needs to find a school/employer that they are in agreement with.

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
9:35 am

rock on Karen!

Shar

October 30th, 2011
9:56 am

The question to me is who would send their children to a school that compresses and restricts their worldview rather than expanding it? Why would any parent choose a school that would reward professors for not drinking rather than for excellent teaching and scholarship? People who are attracted to teaching are almost always attracted to the open and free exchange of ideas, and in fact the rationale for tenure is to insulate the life of the mind from undue external influences that would seek to threaten intellectual freedom.

Shorter is not going to be able to attract top flight teachers, and this policy will serve to drive away those it already has. Asking parents or students to pay $18,000 per year in tuition and fees, with another $10,000 for room, board and books in exchange for professors who are either doctrinaire robots, intellectually incurious or too bad at what they do to get a job anywhere else is bound to limit their prospect pool.

Ole Guy

October 30th, 2011
9:57 am

Scott, there is no “Duh” here…the DOD/Department of Defense has civilian employees who have absolutely no connection to the military…I would hazzard a guess that there are liquor stores with employees who do not drink liquor…there are probably airline employees who do not care to fly; bus line employees who do not care to ride in buses…you getthe drift, Scott?

If anyone should be required to sign these agreements, it would be the students who, signified by their attendance, wish to conduct themselves under such restrictions. Given the apparent difficulty many seem to experience in securing employment, this requirement is nothing but an arm-twisting tactic designed to “convert” (what this school’s administration considers to be) “sinners” to the mores of Puritanical dogma. If this employment requirement were to be argued in court, I am quite certain it would be found to be in violation of some EEOC reg. These administrators, after all, are simple attempting to foist their beliefs upon others, and to employ that “my way or the highway” wedge as a means of forced morality.

There is no “duh” here, Scott…simply a despicable tactic to forceably “convert” others under the carrot of a job. As far as I’m concerned, these people can go to hell.

resno2

October 30th, 2011
9:58 am

If you don’t like it…. wait for it…. don’t go!

However, it does seem like an easy way to head off any absurd ‘Human Rights’ violation charges like those being leveled at Catholic University.

resno2

October 30th, 2011
10:03 am

Shar – if that’s what Shorter wants to do, why does anyone feel they have the need/right to stop them? It is a private institution. Big deal! They are not government funded and SHOULD be allowed to do business however they chose.

Aquagirl

October 30th, 2011
10:13 am

Can someone tell me when they hold their first slave auction? I need help with the housework.

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
10:17 am

Shar..you want your children to be protected from leaders who act like those in the boy scouts (see curent article on ajc.com). Being exposed to radicalism is a dangerous thing..Shorter is choosing to stand for something, which is a lot more than your secular, utopian society chooses to do. Homosexuality is a danger to the family in every aspect. Most christians are opposed to it. The Bible speaks against it. The school is espousing its values on its leaders. The students don’t take the pledge (although I think they should) and are free to work elsewhere if they don’t like it. Speaking against something doesn’t mean you’re a hater or a biggot..it just means you have the courage to stand against lifestyle issues that are reaming christian values. Go Shorter!

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
10:18 am

Aqua, if you need help with the housework, you should go hire an occupier..they strike me as conscientious and honest laborers

Inman Park Boy

October 30th, 2011
10:21 am

Like it or not, this is called sticking to one’s principles. It is a trait sadly lacking in most institutions today.

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
10:27 am

You know what strikes me as obvious is with all the dedicated leftists mentioning our multi-cultural society is that our “melting pot” ideal has melted into a society in which the majority feels like our founding principles (including freedom of religion and the acknowledgement of God by our leaders) are no longer to be followed because they may not “meld” with those of other cultures we have let into our country. I believe in multi-culturalism but I will always believe that if you come into our country you should have to respect the provisions that we were founded on. You don’t have to practice them, but don’t call me a hater for believing in them. By the way, separation of church and state doesn’t mean a government can’t utter the word “Jesus”, just that it can’t force any member of society to practice a particular religion (see Church of England as a reason for our original independence). Also, we weren’t founded on slavery, that was a mistake that our christian principles ultimately rectified (see Amazing Grace the movie for the true story behind abolition). You forget your founding values, you become a melted pot of goo which is subject to tyranny by radicals (many of whom lie in wait in places like this site).

Aquagirl

October 30th, 2011
10:43 am

this is called sticking to one’s principles.

I agree. Too many Baptists have strayed from their traditions, and they should drink their booze out of coffee cups just like grandpa and grandma.

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
10:46 am

Aquagirl…will pray for you. Make a case, or go back to your tent in the park and tell us we all need to provide for you

Aquagirl

October 30th, 2011
11:30 am

jimmie, reserve those prayers and a tent for yourself. Apparently the modern world frightens you, what with the womenfolk demanding adult treatment, non-Christians asserting their Constitutional rights, and scary folk everywhere.

If Shorter Cow College wants to obsess over sex and alcohol (obviously the only subjects addressed by the Bible) they’re free to do so. The rest of us are free to ignore them, like any other miniscule clot of control freaks who have 0% control over our lives–thank goodness.

anotherteacher

October 30th, 2011
11:34 am

When teachers have to listen to endless stories from co-workers about their sex lives, it is no wonder that this discussion is coming up. In addition, teachers have to see co-workers dress like skanks with heavy makeup, tight clothes and low cut blouses. But you better not gripe about it, lest you be seen as “not a team player”.

Whatever happened to just doing my job because I love it? Those days are gone.

anotherteacher

October 30th, 2011
11:35 am

filter

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
11:51 am

Aqua..modern world? If your definition of modern world is men having sex with men, women having sex with women, people deciding to mutilate themselves because they decide they were born the wring way, pedophiles being allowed to be boy scout leaders and complete moralless instructors being allowed to manipulate young minds and mindless drunk drivers only getting 5 years for causing the needless deaths of productive citizens (See christa the I’m going to serve you until youre a drunk menace and then I’m going to become a drunk menace myself) is your definition of modern society, then you’re darn right I’m going to do everything possible to shift the movement of modernism back to what worked…a god-minded society. I won;t cry when perverts are rooted out, when deviants are destroyed and the enemy is defeated..not one tear. I see what is destroying society and I want to see it destroyed.

Sam

October 30th, 2011
12:12 pm

I wonder if they serve bacon in their cheeseburgers at Shorter. How silly that they want to throw the first stone.

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
12:16 pm

Teacher..don’t know why you got kicked out but I agree with your premise..these folks who believe in a “destroy the concept of a family” world with their mindless (can you say STD and AID risk) sexual promiscuity (think Aqua would call that modern, although Aqua I do agree that AIDs is a modern epidemic..hmm, another advantage to your “modern” society??) are the ones teaching your adolescents??? Garbage taught = garbage minds is as much applicable in the classroom as in a computer. Once again, thank Gof for Shorter!! The majority of us with our votes can keep this tide turning in our society. Lets kick some godless liberal booty!!!

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
12:18 pm

Actually, since I’m on the road, a double bacon cheeseburger with lots on non-vegan stuff piled on top sounds awesome right now. Thanks for the idea! And don’t forget, God gave man dominion over the earth, the fileds thereof and the fullness thereof. Enjoy the cow and the pig and the chicken and the goat..!!!

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
12:19 pm

And your opposite sex spouse in a meaningful, passionate, family oriented lovefest..the way God ordained it.

resno2

October 30th, 2011
1:00 pm

Somehow I don’t think we’d be having this discussion if a Muslim based college/university did the same thing. That is if it actually made the news.

Scott

October 30th, 2011
1:36 pm

I’m pleased that Shorter has the courage to stand up for their mainstream beliefs, rejecting obvious sexual sins including premarital sex and homosexuality, and also setting a good standard by not drinking in front the student body (of which most are not of drinking age). Still haven’t heard a valid criticism of their pledge. Pretty sure they didn’t claim this was an exhaustive list of sins. (Reminds me a lot of the Council of Jerusalem of Acts 15… James had a list of only 4 commands for the new Gentile converts).

If you don’t want to live by the most basic of Christian values, don’t work at a Christian school. Still a no-brainer. Personally, I’m not going to work at a bar or a strip club since it doesn’t match my values. Pretty reasonable to expect those working at Shorter to either conform or depart. Their choice.

I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...

October 30th, 2011
1:39 pm

@jimmie “Speaking against something doesn’t mean you’re a hater or a biggot..”

No, but repeatedly making comments calling others “perverts” and “deviants”, suggesting they wear dog collars and crawl around on their knees for fun, and noting you would not shed one tear if they all disapppeared from the face of the earth, does suggest a touch of hatred and bigotry.

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
1:39 pm

Hmmm..point out the fallacies of liberals and the hissing mob retracts into the darkness..stay there

Lee

October 30th, 2011
2:42 pm

If any of you took the time to go to Shorter’s website, you will find the tagline “Shorter College, Transforming Lives Through Christ“.

http://www.shorter.edu/

Not sure why this is even a news story, other than the politically correct pathogens who run todays media simply cannot fathom how anyone can have a moral code based on a religious tenet. (Unless, of course, that religion is Islam, Buddhism, Hindu, Judaism, or a host of any other religions except Christianity.)

Good for Shorter for sticking up for their ideals. I’m sure the 3500 or so students who selected Shorter are quite happy with their choice of college and are receiving an excellent education there.

God has issues?

October 30th, 2011
3:05 pm

Good feels threatened by same sex couples? Who knew God had self esteem issues. And the whole no alcohol thing; is God a recovering alcoholic? (You know, sometimes those who overcome substance abuse get a bit highfalutin…)

DannyX

October 30th, 2011
3:24 pm

Hey jimmie, what are your sins?

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
3:29 pm

got a few sins mate. i eat too much and spend too much time worrying about the destruction of our society. god has promised that is in his hands and he’ll act when necessary (see sodom and gomorrah, see noah, see samson). my sins do not threaten the entirety of our nations moral fabric as the sins committed by homosexuals by all means do. i call spades spades (and pray) when i sense the moral backbone of america being challenged by satan and his subjects. go shorter!!!

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
3:31 pm

god has issue…yep, he does. he hates sin and what it has done to his initially perfect world..and i pray he acts quickly to snuff it out. cheers all..time to spend the rest of the day curled up with my female, hetero, red hot smoking wife..

DeKalbite

October 30th, 2011
3:37 pm

Shorter College has a right to do whatever it does as long as it is not dependent on federal dollars. It is disingenuous to say the least if your organization is dependent on fees from students who are using taxpayer dollars for those fees. “Pass through” dollars sounds like a euphemism for “money laundering” IMHO.

madaboutmath

October 30th, 2011
4:34 pm

Good for Shorter for sticking to their values. I can’t believe these people saying that students shouldn’t get federal money because of their particular standards. Just think what would happen if the money were taken away from these students because they go to a school with this particular set of standards that some people don’t like. Then it opens the door for the same thing to happen to other schools that have standards that certain parts of the population don’t like. I don’t happen to like communist ideology taught to my children, but I would be upset if students who choose to go to schools where this is taught were denied federal money. What you politically correct people are proposing would just take away our freedom. You are the ones always talking about how great diversity is. Yes, it is great. It’s great that I can believe the way I want to believe and go to a school that supports that belief, and it’s also great that you can believe the way you want to believe and attend a school that supports your belief system.
P.S. As a member of a church that does not interpret the Bible the way Shorter does, I knew not to even apply there. While I will never be welcome on staff at Shorter, I fully support their right to live by their standards as I expect to be allowed to live by mine.

bootney farnsworth

October 30th, 2011
5:29 pm

myself, I would never sign such an agreement. and I’m married and straight. my employer will never be able to have that much influence how I live.

that said, Shorter has the rigth to implement these rules if they wish.
no one has a Constitutional right to work at a private entity

if Shorter wishes to limit themselves to such a limited potential workforce .. only hurting themselves in the long run.

bootney farnsworth

October 30th, 2011
5:30 pm

where they’re gonna get themselves in trouble is when they try to enforce this on existing employees.

THAT could end up in court.

bootney farnsworth

October 30th, 2011
5:41 pm

the more I think on it, the more this stinks like bad fish.
Shorter is rolling in hyprocracy in this.

if they REALLY meant to follow what they claim to believe, they’d
do like BYU and hold the students to the same standards.

but students bring in money, and THAT seems to be what Shorter
really believes in — tuition

bootney farnsworth

October 30th, 2011
5:42 pm

and a special thank you to jimmie for personally modeling the 7 deadly sins for the community.

Reality Check

October 30th, 2011
6:49 pm

My understanding is that Shorter University is a Baptist college and the views about alcohol and sexual behavior correspond to Baptist doctrine, which is different from Catholic or Episcopal doctrine, all of which would claim to be Christian denominations. Good, well-meaning Christians disagree on many issues. I support the right of a private university to set standards for employees, particularly professors who have such a great influence on students. Students and parents who choose this university should not be surprised that they set standards that correspond to their affiliating denomination and would probably be disappointed if they did not. For those of you who find these standards offensive, you should exercise your constitutional right to attend or work for a different university that supports your values or lack thereof. If you believe that we should live and let live, as most of you critics would say you do, then allow Shorter to live the way they want and you can choose the same.

CJ

October 30th, 2011
6:57 pm

OLE Guy—damn the Christians again, huh? Have you ever heard of freedom of religion? Sounds like you are not contentto live in a free country, where private colleges are allowed to follow God’;s Word, so I would suggest trying a more secular, more progressive country, where you are jailed of you have a dissenting opinion. Heil government!!

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
7:41 pm

Hey Bootney. I call it like I see it. And how the majority still sees it. Way to go Shorter. Next, the students should sign! That way, they may not wind up in tents downtown when employers see what they have to offer and back away rapidly.

jimmie

October 30th, 2011
7:52 pm

Hey Bootney. I’d actually love for a workforce to pass that cut line of being christian, straight, ethical, moral, upstanding, not out partying (or doing other things) with the students other than showing them a great path to learning, peace and prosperity. I think they’ll do fine.

Archie@Arkham Asylum

October 30th, 2011
8:23 pm

@Lee: That truism is called “Murphy’s Golden Rule.” Whoever has the gold, makes the rules!

Cindy Lutenbacher

October 30th, 2011
8:35 pm

One thing I’ve never been able to figure out is how homosexuality threatens “the family.” Is heterosexuality so appealing that people who see a choice will run from heterosexuality in droves? How does anyone’s affectional orientation threaten someone else’s family construction?

In any event, Shorter is a private college that can make its own rules. I will, however, pray for it and its people, in hopes that they will come to understand the concept of spiritual love in a much deeper way.

Cindy Lutenbacher

October 30th, 2011
8:40 pm

Ooops. Meant to say: “Is heterosexuality so UNappealing that heterosexuals would run from…”

Roman Friend

October 30th, 2011
8:47 pm

bootney farnsworth says in part:

“if Shorter wishes to limit themselves to such a limited potential workforce .. only hurting themselves in the long run.”

Now, who says that the faculty at Shorter is limited, or even some future faculty will be limited? Sounds to me like you (and others like you) assume only homosensuals and their cohorts have any brains. I suspect that Shorter is as careful in selecting faculty based on academic qualifications as on morals. They have a right to select on both criteria.

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jimmie

October 30th, 2011
10:28 pm

Cindy, when you raise kids with two stay home dadies or mommies and society says thats okay, then the god ordained family union of one man, one woman is threatened. i dont think thats too hard to comprehend

Progressive Humanist

October 30th, 2011
10:39 pm

Religious belief, including Christian belief, is antithetical to education. Education is about learning real things about the real world; it’s about studying the most accurate current knowledge known to mankind. In contrast, basing “knowledge acquisition” on Christian beliefs is simply indoctrination into immoral, irrational, illogical myths. It is the very opposite of education. It’s training people to base their lives on Medieval fiction, which is a terrible thing for mankind.

As a private institution, I suppose Shorter has a right to impose their unethical code on those associated with it, but I don’t even view Shorter as a real college. Its professors have no credibility and neither do its degrees. I wouldn’t hire anyone with a degree from Shorter because the degree is no more real than the foolish beliefs they base their mission statement on.

V for Vendetta

October 30th, 2011
10:58 pm

Progressive Humanist,

Well said.

The amount of stupidity on this particular blog is overwhelming. I’m sometimes frightened by the narrow-mindedness in this country, especially considering that we’re fast approaching an important election. As always, I’ll be blunt:

Shorter is free to do as they please. However, anyone who would willingly choose to live and/or work under such an antiquated and bigoted code of “ethics” is a moron of the highest degree. People who attend shorter do it not for education; they do it to be further inculcated with baseless mysticism that has no root in reality as we know it.

Truth in Moderation

October 30th, 2011
11:01 pm

“We all want progress, but if you’re on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.”
C. S. Lewis

Truth in Moderation

October 30th, 2011
11:16 pm

“However, anyone who would willingly choose to live and/or work under such an antiquated and bigoted code of “ethics” is a moron of the highest degree.”
@V
There you go again, speaking in an unscientific manner. The restraints put forth by the school actually comply with the law of nature and are therefore scientific. Homosexual behavior, in the scientific sense, is unnatural. Without a heterosexual drive, all human life would end. Homosexual behavior is against Darwin. Those who do not reproduce will die out. The only way this practice currently exists is through a parasitic relationship with heterosexuals. The school is just promoting “survival of the fittest”. Do you have a problem with that? Along that line of thinking, driving while drunk tends to shorten a life span as well. Babies born to unwed mothers tend to require a parasitic relationship, either with the mother’s parents or the government (AKA) taxpayers. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Progressive Humanist

October 30th, 2011
11:41 pm

Moderation,

I think you may want to revisit your idea of what science is. While just about every 12-year-old knows that it takes a male and a female to reproduce, homosexual relationships are found throughout nature among many species. It is natural for living beings to have sexual desires, and those desires manifest themselves in many different ways across a variety of different species.

You seem to think science would dictate that if an activity or trait does not advance evolutionary development, then it’s not “scientific” and is unnatural. The very fact that homosexual behavior does exist in abundance in nature suggests that it is natural and would also mean that homosexual behavior falls squarely under the purview if science.

And you might want to learn more about Darwinism before speaking for what is for or against Darwinism. Homosexuality may not contribute to an organism passing on its genes, but because it can be observed in nature, which is how Darwin collected his data and formed his theories, it is certainly not “against Darwinism”; it’s just another natural behavior that scientists would seek to study and explain.

You are certainly free to form your worldview around whatever narrow ideology you wish, but please don’t claim that science supports that narrow-mindedness.

another comment

October 31st, 2011
12:14 am

Most of the Baptists including my daughter’s father and his whole family were a big bunch of hypocrites. I am sure that Jimmie is just as big of one. First how many grown men call them selves Jimmie. Second, God is always capatalized. It is not proper to start is off with a small g. In fact most Christians and Jews I know spelling that three letter word with a small g is a mortal sin.

Now lets get back to the bapstists I know being hypocrates. They say they don’t drink, but have that Vodka bottle stored in the pantry. Then they take the red plastic cup and pore the straight Vodka over ice. They tell Grandma they are drinking water. Sure!!!. But how do they explain the two DUI’s they got. Or that they drove straight, and ended up in a creek, they forgot to make the left on to 575. They only lived up off this road for over 30 years. Then they get drunk and you try to take away their Vodka bottle and they beat you. Breaking your ribs. But they are a good Baptist. No thanks!!!

Cindy Lutenbacher

October 31st, 2011
5:55 am

Sorry, Jimmie, but you are just repeating the same thing. Can you be more specific about exactly what is the threat? If ten percent of my neighbors have blue houses while the ninety percent have green houses, how do those blue houses affect the green houses? The fact of something existing doesn’t necessarily threaten the existence of something else, does it?

Truth in Moderation

October 31st, 2011
6:17 am

@Progressive
Nice try. Tell me, how can a homosexual “gene” be passed on? Are all so-called homosexuals mutants?
“The very fact that homosexual behavior does exist in abundance in nature suggests that it is natural and would also mean that homosexual behavior falls squarely under the purview if science.”

Oh, so now its homosexual BEHAVIOR. Of course, Darwin doesn’t address behavior, but GENETIC TRAITS, that are physically passed on. So you admit homosexuality is a chosen BEHAVIOR, that can be changed? Also, please cite your statistics for “homosexual behavior does exist in abundance in nature”. Who did the study? Where are the peer reviewed papers?

Jimmie

October 31st, 2011
6:53 am

How can one bring fire into ones proximity and not get burned. Sin is enticing Cindy that is why it must be repelled. And given over to god to destroy.

Cindy Lutenbacher

October 31st, 2011
7:38 am

Thanks, Jimmie. Now I do understand your particular perspective.

jimmie

October 31st, 2011
7:53 am

For the sake of our kids, we should revolt..against the same cycle that brought down sodom and gomorrah and, in Noahs day, the entire earth…”and God could no longer look upon his creation (man)”..and you know what he did next. I’d like to survive my generation..although the second coming of Christ is certainly not a bad option. Go Shorter!

jimmie

October 31st, 2011
8:14 am

Lets use another example. Lets take William Ayers, an unrepentant terrorist, who with his wife attempted to bomb the Pentagon, I believe (google it if you’d like) to further his beliefs about REVOLT. Now, lets say, there are some edumacators who believe that his cause of attempted murder was just and lets say further these edumacators bring this belief into the classroom where the young minds are trapped (possibly without a contrarian point of view)..then they get the idea that Ayers was brilliant, that Ayers acts should be defended and even repeated..and another bright mind (hetero) goes to mush (homosexual)..but after all, how could one little terrorist sitting right down the street from our insanely liberal, biggoted, foolish president cause any harm to those around him…wake up and smell the coffee people. Sin, if left unchecked, will continue to spread!! Go Shorter! Fight back!

Truth in Moderation

October 31st, 2011
8:21 am

@another comment
“Now lets get back to the bapstists I know being hypocrates.”

Well, for goodness sakes! Why don’t you be decent and pick up the crate and give those baptists a hand? Where do you get YOUR morals?

Jimmie

October 31st, 2011
9:05 am

I see a potential opportunity for Marcus & Michele Bachmann to convert gay employees of Shorter U. This could be very lucrative for their faith-based homosexual conversion center.

Progressive Humanist

October 31st, 2011
9:13 am

Moderation,

You sound like a frustrated English major pretending you know something about science.

Homosexual behavior has been observed in birds, mammals, insects, reptiles, and fish. Most objective observers would agree that that would consist of a large sample of natural life. Researchers such as Bagemihl and Bockman, among others, have documented this.

As to your question about how homosexual genes are passed on, junior, they’re passed on the same way all other genes are passed on. Even 10th grade biology students understand that genes do not replicate previous genes exactly and that thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of genetic variations emerge in each individual organism. Every organism has “mutated” genes because that’s what genes do- they mutate (otherwise known as variation).

You also seem to believe that genetics and behavior are two separate things. They are not, and they are intertwined in the most complex fashion. Genetics are more often than not at the root of any organism’s behavior. And no one suggested that homosexuality was a chosen behavior (because as I said, genetics are often the cause of a behavior). The idea that homosexuality in humans is a chosen behavior is a primitive fairy tale that has been thoroughly debunked again and again, and I’m surprised that you would shine a light on your ignorance by even suggesting as much.

I would recommend that you put down all the fiction, whether it be English literature or the bible, and take some classes in science. Advancing your education will help you build a more realistic view of the natural world, one not so steeped in myth and mysticism.

John John

October 31st, 2011
9:15 am

I heard the school has some fine print in the contract that will not allow employees to watch Will & Grace!

Raymond

October 31st, 2011
9:23 am

WHAT? No Will & Grace. I would turn in my resignation and never look back.

Truth in Moderation

October 31st, 2011
10:03 am

@P.H.
“You also seem to believe that genetics and behavior are two separate things. They are not…”

Therefore, Baptist’s behavior is genetic. They shun homosexuality, alcohol, and pre-marital “relations” because of their GENETIC PREDISPOSITION! So why all the HATE? What is your scientific basis for it? These people are just being true to their genetic makeup!

Just A Teacher

October 31st, 2011
10:03 am

“I think that anybody who adheres to a lifestyle that is outside of what the biblical mandate is and of what the board has passed, including the president, would not be allowed to continue here,” Dowless told Channel 2 Action News.

OK. The Bible mandates many things. Among them are slavery, stonings, and not eating pork. Can you get fired for eating a bbq sandwich or refusing to kill somebody by throwing rocks at them? And, if I am not mistaken, Jesus, himself took a sip or two of wine. Can employees be fired if a student sees them taking communion? I also found it interesting that murder is not on the list of things that an employee could lose his / her job for. Wow! It’s a private college, so they can do what they want, but this is messed up! I’m just glad I want to a REAL university!

Truth in Moderation

October 31st, 2011
10:29 am

Regarding genetic mutations:

“Among the mutations that affect a typical gene, different kinds produce different impacts. A VERY FEW are at least momentarily adaptive on an evolutionary scale. Many are deleterious. Some are neutral, that is, they produce no effect strong enough to permit selection for or against; a mutation that is deleterious or advantageous in a large population may be neutral in a small population, where random drift outweighs selection coefficients. The impact of mutation is quite different in different DNA sequences. It is maximal in a conventional gene or exon, and at least transitorily less in a gene whose function is required rarely or is redundant. IF ADAPTIVE MUTATIONS ARE RARE, AS SEEMS TO BE THE CASE, then rates of DNA sequence evolution are driven mainly by mutation and random drift, as KIMURA 1983A has argued. In this case, the proportion of neutral mutations at a site or locus is the ratio of its rate of evolution to that of a region that can be considered neutral, such as a pseudogene. MOST newly arisen mutations in functional genes are DELETERIOUS, but the fraction may approach zero for spacer DNAs such as introns and intergenic regions. Of course, some protein evolution certainly results from favorable mutations, and to this extent the neutral fraction is overestimated.

The existence of strong taxonomic patterns of mutability implies that genomic mutation rates are close to an evolutionary EQUILIBRIUM whose driving forces we consider here.”
http://www.genetics.org/content/148/4/1667.full

Truth in Moderation

October 31st, 2011
10:53 am

@Just a Teacher
Which “bible” are you referring to?

V for Vendetta

October 31st, 2011
11:44 am

Truth,

Wow, you’re great at copy/pasting. Good on ya!

Perhaps it’s not scientific, but I think you’ve adequately justified my “moron of the highest degree” comment. And you quoted CS Lewis. Good grief.

Darth Gaydar

October 31st, 2011
12:13 pm

I’m calling on all gay, lesbian and trans gender people to pursue your academic education at Shorter U. Let’s make this the 1st all gay student body in Georgia with the strongest gay student population in the South.

Reality Check

October 31st, 2011
12:58 pm

@Just a Teacher,
Please read my previous post on this page. We should not be discussing all Christians, or generalized interpretations of the Bible or atheism. This is about a specific Baptist university sponsored by a conservative Baptist convention asking their teachers to adhere to the specific Baptist doctrine of their sponsoring denomination. We should be discussing religious freedom which many on this blog deride. Originally religious freedom was a protection for religious folks to freely choose doctrine and practices using their internal conscience and not have doctrine chosen for them or enforced on them. Many on this blog now interpret it as freedom FROM religion and condemn all expressions of religious devotion as mystism. That was not the original intent, but I will grant you the freedom to reject religion and leave you alone. However, I will not allow you to dictate and bully religious devotees from freely exercising their religious freedom. This is at the very foundation of our Constitution; it is why many left other countries to escape religious persecution. Quit persecuting the Baptists; leave them alone!

mum

October 31st, 2011
3:25 pm

It’s always intersting how “christians” pick and choose which parts of the bible to follow. The straight-laced follow the old testament, and others got the new testament route. It’s all very selective given that one part allows for multiple wives, etc, and the other doesn’t, which proves that religion interprets thing however they want to for their own benefit.

Maybe the baptist church needs to clean up their own house, given the child molestation incidents, before they go after gays and lesbians….who are some of the best parents a child could have. If Jesus said we should hate our brothers, I’d love someone to tell me which scriptures say that.

Just A Teacher

October 31st, 2011
3:46 pm

@Truth In Moderation . . . I am referring to the King James Edition which does allow for slavery and stonings in the Old Testament and makes reference to Jesus drinking wine in the New Testament.

@ Reality Check . . . I am not persecuting Baptists or any other religion. They have a right to believe anything they want. As I said, Shorter can do what it wants. I do have a problem with using government funds to indoctrinate people into any cult. Oops! I meant religion! Anyway, if they want to run a religious institution, they should have absolutely no government money coming into it due to the separation of Church and State in our constitution. That means no Pell Grants or any other government sponsored financial aid for the students and no government funding for the college in any way.

Reality Check

October 31st, 2011
4:20 pm

@Just a Teacher and catlady,
Both of you seem very concerned about Pell Grants being used at Shorter. Does this apply to all priviate colleges and universities that are affiliated with a church or religion? As long as the school is accredited, it might seem that students who wish to attend a religiously affiliated school were being discriminated against if they cannot use Pell Grant money but students who choose to go to a public university could. Schools with religious affiliation are listed on this webpage: http://www.campuscorner.com/religious-affiliations.htm
Public support for Pell Grants might fall if all these schools were not eligible. I could probably argue either way, but you might be cutting off your nose to spite your face. This is actually a legitimate issue raised by this article and worthy of discussion.

jimmie

October 31st, 2011
6:35 pm

This is he real Jimmie..not a cheap, stupid imitation…I’m calling on vaccinations for the next AIDs epidemic..oh , whopps, snaaapp there aren’t any. Just another risk of living with gays..I vote no to homosexuality.

GreatATLGuy

October 31st, 2011
6:55 pm

A modern-day witch hunt…. just like Salem and “The Crucible” and the communist trials of the 50s – the next step is requiring the John Proctors of the campus to not only sign their confessions, but nail them to the front door. It is almost shocking to know this kind of prejudice exists in 2011, which opens the door to bullying and gay-bashing. Shame on Shorter, you have missed the mark. This will be a case study in bigotry soon.

James Tonney

October 31st, 2011
6:57 pm

Bashing Christians seems fun. Their judgmental and haters… so your told…..

This is very simple. The lifestyle of employees of a Christian organization should reflect the values of Christ. Being a Christian doesn’t mean you are perfect, it means you know what your striving to be.

Choosing not to sign the schools pledge means you choose to live your life by your religious /non-religious definition. Which is perfectly fine, except if you want to be an employee representing a Christian school.

Higher Educator

October 31st, 2011
7:44 pm

As a college professor, I feel for the faculty and staff going through this. Administrations come and go, but faculty and staff can spend careers at a school, and when administrations do things like this, that embarrass the school and fix nothing, it is very frustrating – like the contract you signed has been changed after-the-fact.
I also feel for the students and alumni. Your degrees (earned or to-be-earned) have been cheapened. The name Shorter next to a degree might now be worth more to a select few, but to most people who you will want to impress for a job or a position in graduate school, you are now at a greater disadvantage. It looks bad to those of us who don’t care one bit whether you’re religious or not. Fair or not, that’s the case. I’m sorry for those of you proud of your school and your degree that your administration would associative your school not with learning but with childish forms of behavioral control.

jimmie

October 31st, 2011
10:51 pm

@higher educator; your viewpoint is exactly the reason we need new higher educators..you’re the controller now, shorter trying to put appropriate moral, christians back at the helm…go shorter!

Truth in Moderation

October 31st, 2011
11:29 pm

@ just
I think you mean King James TRANSLATION. LOL!
The Old Testament, to which you refer, is the history of Israel. Therefore, your comments are ANTISEMITIC. All ancient peoples made use of slaves, otherwise, they would have had to kill all that they conquered. These became the low-cost workforce. All nations depend on cheap or slave labor. The U.S. may have ended slavery in the South, but since Nixon, rushed to make a deal with Mao and used the Chinese slave labor force for our cheap goods and services. We just moved our slavery offshore. The Christians in the New Testament who owned slaves before their conversion, were called on to treat them as a brother in Christ. They weren’t necessarily required to set them free, as far as the government was concerned. At that time, a slave treated as a son to the master, may have enjoyed more protection and prosperity than if he were turned out on the street. In the New Testament, freedom is attained spiritually, through the repentance of sin. This freedom transcends our physical state and is eternal in nature. Currently, every U.S. citizen is a debt slave to our creditors, the FED, China, and others. Our creditors now dictate economic policy. As for stoning, this too was a law for the nation Israel. It was capitol punishment, with a twist. Instead of using hanging, the electric chair, or lethal injection, the victims of the wrongdoers were part of implementing the capitol punishment law. If they were willing to accuse a fellow citizen of a horrific crime, and could prove it, then they would cast the first stone to implement the death penalty. If a victim found this distasteful, or wasn’t absolutely sure of the other’s guilt, then they could drop their charges. When the Israelites were wandering through the desert, prison was not an option. Crime and punishments were codified in the Law. In Jesus’ day, the religious leaders tried to get him to judge the woman caught in adultery, a sin punishable by stoning. Jesus knew of her sin and evidently of the religious leaders involved as well. The woman was genuinely repentant And Jesus saved her from stoning by challenging her accusers to cast the first stone IF they were innocent in the matter. They chose not to implement the legal proceedings of stoning. Jesus demonstrated that forgiveness and repentance triumphs over judgement.

In the Old Testament, the Israelites were given various laws regarding “clean” and “unclean” food. Unclean animals were “bottom feeders” on the food chain. This diet seemed to contribute to their health and success as a nation. Later, during Roman times, the Church, through the Apostle Peter, were freed from food laws, and declared all food fit to eat, if it was done in thanksgiving to God. This was done in conjunction with the Jewish church now being opened up to converted goyim. This challenged traditional Israelis to the core.

You are quite right that Jesus drank wine. His first miracle was to turn water into GOOD wine at a wedding celebration. Jesus claimed that his coming was an event to be celebrated (forgiveness of sin) and so he celebrated with wine at feasts. Wine was also used in the traditional Israeli passover supper. Wine was used regularly by Israelites for feasts and wedding celebrations. Some, however, such as John the Baptist, took a special vow not to drink wine or cut their hair. The New Testament calls on church leaders not to be dissipated with wine, or to be know as a drunkard. This is what many Baptist denominations hone in on. The Old Testament records the trouble created when Noah got drunk with wine. Christians are free to drink wine, but they may chose to abstain for religious reasons.

@mum
26If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

27And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:26-27

Ole Guy

October 31st, 2011
11:54 pm

Many good folks here seem to head straight down the “Yea God” tangent and completely miss the point: Pretend, for a moment, that you are applying for a job as, say…an electrical engineer, or a machine operator, or any skill which requires some sort of qualification. You are well-qualified…in fact, you are highly qualified…the best among the competition. The hiring authority then asks “do you believe in such an’such (such an ’such having absolutely nothing to do with the job)”?

There are those who seem to support the notion that the school has the “right” to establish its own requirements…I am not too sure if this concept would pass EEOC muster.

This arguement has not one damn thing to do with morality, sexual preferences/behavior, or the “freedom” an employer has in establishing a code of conduct while not on the clock. It’s all about foisting beliefs and mores upon a captive audience,

Truth in Moderation

November 1st, 2011
12:02 am

@mum
If you are truly interested in slavery, please watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myqffx8Mdg4&feature=related

Truth in Moderation

November 1st, 2011
12:14 am

@Ole Guy
They are not a captive audience. It is a private school. Anyone teaching there already had a clue that they would be working for Baptists, teaching their doctrines. Life’s full of tough choices. Why do these supposed anti-Christ teachers have to depend on the donations of Christians to have a job? Can’t their god/non-god take care of them? Why would they want to teach there anyway? Are any of the current teachers there complaining? Filing lawsuits?

Progressive Humanist

November 1st, 2011
7:42 am

Moderation @ 11:29,

That’s one of the most disgusting examples of obfuscation and rationalization I’ve ever seen. I can hardly believe that you just tried to argue that slavery was actually good for the slave and that we still have “slaves” today in order to justify your immoral text. And then you try to argue that it was right for your “just god” to condone stoning. Truly nauseating.

It’s not only that the bible orders stoning; it’s that it orders it to be done to your children for worshiping another god or to your neighbor for working on Sunday.

It’s sickening when the right begins to argue for cultural relativism to justify the immoral teachings in the bible while at the same time arguing those teachings are the infallible word of god.

Progressive Humanist

November 1st, 2011
7:51 am

As a private institution (I hesitate to even call it a college) Shorter has the right to ask its employees to adhere to whatever Medieval moral code they wish, as long as it’s not criminal, I suppose. But as a professor at a state university it’s also my right and obligation to examine the credentials of candidates applying for graduate school and scholars applying for jobs as professors. I can say with certainty that having Shorter on a vita will not help candidates make the cut on any committee I am on (or most of the professors I work with) because Shorter has no objective credibility as a place of higher learning. Their focus is on getting students and staff to follow their moral code, not on providing a quality education, and I have to take that into account when I see Shorter on application material.

Ole Guy

November 1st, 2011
8:27 am

Moderation, these people ARE indeed a captive audience…captive in that their jobs/their very livelihoods are dependent on their adopting social preferences which have absolutely nothing to do with the job. Supporters insist on tieing their beliefs to the religious/moral components which have absolutely no bearing on job performance. If one is hired to teach, say, chemistry or even a religious topic, what possible negative connection could there be to the teacher enjoying a few brewskis at the local watering hole? If religious doctrine forbids the consumption of alcohol, the teacher of religious doctrine may or may not be in agreement. He simply dispenses the doctrine for others to make informed life choices. If certain cultures toss rattlesnakes at eachother, the teacher of that culture may or may not believe in such behavior. His job, as a teacher, is simply to teach students the varying beliefs within a society and allow the student to make appropriate choices. If this particular activity is not in keeping with the personal, nor doctrinal beliefs of school administration, so be it. To simply foist personal/doctrinal values upon others as a condition of employment is nothing short of wrong and probably does not sit well with EEOC. As for the other stuff…sex outside of marriage, etc…once again, a strictly personal matter. Too much blood, over the years, has been shed for the sole purpose of ensuring that we may lead our lives as we see fit. While the lifestyle choices of some may not be in accord with the preferences of others, this is simply the byproduct of living within a society. We have laws which are intended to, not mitigate personal preferences, but prevent those preferences from interfering with the society at large.

Clay

November 1st, 2011
10:17 am

Do not feed the trolls!

V for Vendetta

November 1st, 2011
12:06 pm

I like how Truth emphasized that it was “good” wine that Jesus created. That’s hilarious! Was their documentation of the vintage and the year? Or was it just assumed because he was Jesus.

Of all the idiotic things you said, Truth, that might be the best one! Thanks for a laugh!

ellen

November 1st, 2011
12:08 pm

When are single threaded ‘Christians’ going to wake up? Following a strict interpretation of the bible is impossible with all the contradictions that are in it. (Maybe that’s why they’re batsh**t crazy!)

États-Unis: La direction d’une université chrétienne fait la chasse aux homos parmi ses employé-e-s | Yagg

November 1st, 2011
2:07 pm

[...] la professeure de droit en personne qui s’est chargée de la rédaction, rapporte l’Atlanta Journal Constitution. Du côté des anciens élèves, c’est la consternation qui domine. Plus d’un millier [...]

Reality Check

November 1st, 2011
3:27 pm

@ Ole Guy “Too much blood, over the years, has been shed for the sole purpose of ensuring that we may lead our lives as we see fit.”
I totally agree with you and support your and everyone’s right to work in an environment where you are comfortable. No one is being forced to work for Shorter. I also support Shorter’s right to set the code of ethics for their teachers. Everyone is free to “lead their lives as they see fit.” If you believe this, then leave Shorter alone. Liee and let live.

Reality Check

November 1st, 2011
3:27 pm

Live and let live.

A Christ-Centered College Moves to Preserve Its Identity: Why the Fuss? |

November 2nd, 2011
4:24 pm

[...] certain media and other observers are simply shocked that Shorter took these steps. What to make of this? To be sure, a growing [...]

A Christ-Centered College Moves to Preserve Its Identity: Why the Fuss? |

November 2nd, 2011
4:24 pm

[...] certain media and other observers are simply shocked that Shorter took these steps. What to make of this? To be sure, a growing [...]

Alex

November 3rd, 2011
1:32 pm

Most the people that defend religion so vehemently are the same that when asked about paying a penny more to help the poor would shoot you if they could. Hypocritical behavior is so common in this country. I sometimes wonder if we read different bibles ..

College employees must agree to no premarital or gay sex. No drinking where students might see them.

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College employees must agree to no premarital or gay sex. No drinking where students might see them.

172 comments Add your comment

About Get Schooled

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More from the AJC

Are You or Your School the ‘Best In Class’?

Categories

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All AJC blogs »

Tell us what you think about the site

Subscribe »

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