Math: Getting in step with rest of country. Was this fling with integrated math doomed from the start?

It was doomed from the start not for its content, but because we did away with “tech prep” at the same time and made everyone get the same diploma. So, imho, it was the forcing of all students in to college prep, not the “new” math curriculum, that caused the problems.

Also, please don’t say we’re “going back” to the old way, we’re not.

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Clumping all the maths together certainly did my hard-working, high achieving child no service. One year they had a workbook and no text book to go with it. It also does not prepare them for the tests they are required to pass. Thank fully she has managed fine, but I wonder what college math classes will be like for her.

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Any math curriculum that does not include a textbook is bound to fail. If a student were absent, theoretically, if you have a book you could try to figure out what you missed with the help of friends or parents. If you don’t have a book, teachers have to have daily tutorials for any student who missed just a day or two of classes. And then the student would have to be able to attend the tutorial. Not all students can be at school early, or stay at school late.
Hopefully, if 33 states are adopting the same core standards, textbooks will follow.

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I guess I’m in the minority here. My children, especially my oldest, have absolutely thrived under this new approach to Math.

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Not sure I am even qualified to speak on this, but my general rule in education reform is that “trendy” new ideas usually fail miserably.

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Dunwoody Mom,

What are the ages of your kids? How many of them went to school under both systems and how many went under only one of the systems? Can you say your kids thrived because of the curriculum or because they studied, paid attention and would have thrived in either system?

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But the poor kids that started with this “joke” in the ninth grade are now graduating and they are the ones that have received the “short end of the stick”. How will they really ever recover? They’re going to get hammered in college.Most parents i know repeatedly said this was a bad idea, but as usual, our government always knows best.

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I mean I took Pre-Algebra in 8th grade, Algebra 1 in 9th grade, Geometry in 10th grade, Algebra 2 in 11th, Trig/Pre-Calc in 12th. I generally made Bs and Cs with a few A’s here and there because I didn’t fully apply myself in high school but was always stronger in Math/Science than English/History. Went I went to UGA orientation and took my placement tests I only missed 1 question and placed directly into Calculus 1. I felt the placement test was easy because I was familiar with everything on it despite the actual grades I earned in high school. Understanding fundamental concepts in math is huge compared to doing more complex problem solving just to pass a state test the forgetting the process.

It seems to me that the biggest problem with Integrated Math is that it seeks to make the general student population do more complex problem solving that you’d expect to find in college level courses (and the real world depending on your occupation). The problem with that is at no time did the students actually drill on learning fundamental concepts for each of the math disciplines being applied. It sounds like students are being programmed with math macros instead of being taught what’s really going on…

*shrug*

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@Texas Pete, I’m not sure of your question. How many of them went to school under both systems and how many went under only one of the systems

Both children are still in high school and have only taken the current Math track.

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just teach easy stuff to give kids high grades so administrators can get more bonuses—that’s all that matters.

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For you snarky republicans blaming this on big gobment and Obama – this was implemented under a Republican gov. by a Republican head of education – who otherwise was determined to support private parochial schools at the expense of public.
So don’t even get close to blaming “Democrats” and their “big government” for all this disaster.
And the lack of funding to train teachers to teach this morass was under Republicans too…

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@wow,
Kids can pass the CTCT math in elementary school by counting on their fingers. Don’t laugh. It’s true.

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The question posed was “Could it be that the main problem with the math switch was that teachers were not trained? ”

Teachers not trained? Teachers go to college to get an education to learn how to teach and they are certified by an exam that declares they are able to teach….so why should they need more training?

Something is wrong with out education universities if our teachers are certified and still unable to teach. With a REAL education, anyone can learn a new methodology or task. I am required to do it everyday on my job, to learn something new at my job — without being taught. I learned how to learn in college.

Something is terribly wrong here.

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@Texas Pete – it’s not a matter of defending “integrated math” – I was just pointing out that it has not been a failture for every student. I know it has been a struggle for many students as well.

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All these young whipperSnappers with their pie n the sky and new fangled ideas just reinventing the wheel and wasting money for no good reason other than self-promotion.

“LOOK AT ME Y’ALL, I REINVENTED THE WHEEL”

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We are not allowed to require or drill in basic math facts. So we have middle schoolers still adding, sometimes incorrectly 9+6 on their fingers! Forget multiplication!

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Another Cathy Cox failure. Unfortunately too much money has been spent and the education of too many Georgia students has been set back.

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Dunwoody Mom,

Understood…I didn’t mean to sound combative when I said you were defending Integrated Math. But I agree with your statement that there are students enjoying success today. Integrated Math isn’t going to hurt top students, it’s just not going to help those who typically struggle with math.

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Just another way to hide from the parents how poorly their child is doing.

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Typical education school garbage. The morons who have no choice other than to major in Ed. aren’t bright enough to learn (much less teach) actual math, so their also-stupid professors dream up something trendy and easier to pass. Very old story, and the losers, of course, are the kids who get subjected to this kind of nonsense.

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I should also say that my daughter’s math teachers in No Va who teach the intensified algebra and the intensified geometry both have BSE engineering degrees from top 10 public university engineering programs, worked for some years in the private sector, and then took MA’s in math education. Hire people who not only know the math but know why it is useful to learn and the curriculum it won’t matter – whether it is Algebra-Geometry-Algebra 2 or Math 1,2,3,4.

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puggy68

October 27th, 2011
11:36 am

No one deserves a grade of “4″ because that may dispell the govt and PC experts views that we are all just a dumb as the next person. Individual achievement be damned. The “level” playing field is more important except of course that doesnt apply to Jesus Christ Obama. Just do as he says not as he does…PEASANTS!!

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catlady:

“We are not allowed to require or drill in basic math facts. So we have middle schoolers still adding, sometimes incorrectly 9+6 on their fingers! Forget multiplication!”

Quiz given to 10th graders in my class last year…

Addition (up to and including 9+9): 92% correct
Subtraction (up to and including 1-9 (negative answers): 73% correct
Multiplication (times tables up to and including 9 x9): 63% correct
Division (Numerators up to 99, Denominators up to 8): 23% correct

Which system of Math isn’t relevant if these numbers aren’t very close to 100% by the time they get to high school.

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Good riddence! This program has been a total failure. My daughter tanked in this confusing program and when we would talk to teacher, they obviously did not like it either but it is what it is. There was not continuity and most of the time no textbooks!

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Thank goodness!!! My child has gotten horrific grades in math since they switched! Maybe those will improve now….

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Luv Learning-

You have no idea what you are talking about. I have been there for my son at every juncture. Excuse? Really? I have some words for somebody like you but I won’t waste my time typing them. I have spent many days and nights with him and at the school trying to sort it all out and work with everyone. I cannot afford private school like some but I am there for my kid in every way. That was a cheap shot like my parenting skills are the root of his math problem. Perhaps he is not a math person to begin with and got caught up in this storm of a bad math plan from the Board of Education but somehow you figure it is my problem. Gee thanks for your support.

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Ryattgrrl… I have some words for you, too, but they aren’t perjorative like yours probably are. Unless your child is learning disabled, then I call BS on your “he can’t learn” argument. You are failing him by not expecting anything more than what the educational system gives you. If you think there are “math people” then you need to go back and read through all the posts – there is a learning style that matches every person – math is about a way of thinking and problem solving built on really basic facts that have to be memorized, then applied. I bet you make excuses to your child – “oh you just aren’t a math person” “oh, your teachers are just awful – they don’t know how to interest you in math” “oh, that curriculum is just incomprehensible.” So, get your own bad self off the excuse train and do something constructive because you are not going to change “the system”.

Why are you so fixated on grades when you obviously think the math curriculum is crap? If you think you know what your child is supposed to know, then surely you can spare an hour a night to work through a textbook or workbook with him to learn it. You can buy math workbooks for a few dollars and textbooks used. Oh, yeah, baby, I did the same thing when my child couldn’t “get” the math. She can pass the CRCT and the national standardized tests because I decided to figure out a way to reach her with math, not make excuses why the one-size-fits-all teaching method is “failing” us. Being an advocate for your child doesn’t begin and end with trying to get teachers to see the unique needs of your child.

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“Could it be that the main problem with the math switch was that teachers were not trained? ”

You think? Could it also be that the majority of math teachers are simply not the brightest among their high school class of graduates?

I have said this here and I will say it again. The main cause of low quality math education in America is not incompetent students; rather, it’s incompetent teachers. Some private and chartered schools have produced very high achieving math students. One thing they have in common is their competent math teachers. Just look at the successful example of a chartered school in NY cited by GlobalReportCard.org. This chartered school is almost all minority students and yet they have the highest percentage of students who ate math proficient by the high international standard. Guess what? Competent and foreign-educated math teachers. Don’t believe me? Look it up.

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I think a lot of people are missing the point here. What difference does it make if your kid is taking “high school level” math in middle school and “college level” math in high school? To the masses it just doesn’t matter. Everyone can’t go to MIT so everyone doesn’t need that level of knowledge coming out of high school. There have always been advanced curriculum programs available for students who desire it and can handle it.

What every high school graduate should have is solid fundamental math knowledge to enable them to manage their finances, measure around the house, and get an entry level job (even if it means being a cashier somewhere). Advanced math can be learned when you seek higher level education for a more math driven career (i.e. engineering, accounting, IT, etc). Advanced education is not a problem in this country, fundamental skills for the general population is where we fail.

Blaming the government is the biggest cop out and strongest showing of lack of personal responsibility there is in this country. How can so many people over the years graduate from public schools all over the country in all kinds of different settings and go on to good colleges, the military, or directly into the workforce and become successful? Because they are driven to succeed. An individual’s success has more to do with their desire to succeed than what school they attended. You don’t just happen to end up at MIT because of the grade schools you attended.

If you look at the worst school systems in the country I’ll bet you’ll find minimal student support from parents and general bad attitudes towards education among the community. That’s long before you even evaluate teachers, administration, facilities and textbooks. The most learning occurs when the environment embraces learning opportunities. In order for that to happen, minimal student distraction is required. To have minimal student distraction, parents must raise their kids to be respectful and focused on learning. Until we have that, all the rest doesn’t matter. Focused kids will find a way to succeed and the rest will fall into place across the entire spectrum of success.

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About Time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my son struggles with math and I asked the same thing about a math book and was told they don’t have books. That sucks and when he comes home I’m trying to help him and don’t where to start.

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If 100 students are in a high school graduating class and are all college bound, most of them will major in a liberal arts subject. Only a small number will major in math or science. This is because math is hard and most of us do not have the necessary apptitude to earn degrees in math and the sciences. Educators have been dancing around this for years now, hoping against hope that the newest math teaching “innovation” will solve the problem. Well, it won’t because this is not a social problem. It is an inherent human apptitude problem that educators won’t admit and, unfortunately, will not ever go away.

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This painfully recalls the debacle that was Whole Language.

And these fine Georgia education administrators want to be trusted with hundreds of millions more dollars through SPLOST IV?

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Many of us tried to work with Kathy Cox and warn her about the issues prior to implementation. Below is just one of the many essays I wrote about the topic. The biggest issue was Kathy Cox blindly going forward without dealing with the problems. Instead of dealing with constructive criticism she went on a war path hammering square pegs into round holes.

…….Math 123 may be a well-intended effort to prepare students for a globally competitive workplace, but it’s a proven failure that’s causing substantially more harm than good. Math 123 radically changed our high school math curriculum without properly reviewing it with teachers and parents. It replaced the traditional math sequence (Algebra I & II, geometry and trigonometry) with Math 1, Math 2 and Math 3, which teaches each subject in parallel, rather than starting and completing one topic before moving on to the next.

All Georgia students are now required to pass Math 123 to graduate from high school, which means they must complete the equivalent of Algebra II. That is too aggressive a goal for some students. Prior to Math 123, less than one-third of students were able to complete Algebra I. Those who can’t pass Math 123 are dropping out of school in shocking numbers, damaging their self-esteem and long-term economic prospects. Many resort to taking the GED, which doesn’t require Algebra II, to salvage their futures.

Math 123 makes the same mistake as President George W. Bush’s unpopular No Child Left Behind program: It’s unrealistic to ask all high school students to complete a college-prep curriculum. Some kids would be better served by a strong vocational and/or technical option.

Math 123 also harms teacher morale. It’s not reasonable to call our math teachers failures because they cannot teach every student Math 123’s higher requirements.

Math 123 leaves Georgia with an oddball math curriculum compared to other states, which puts our kids at a disadvantage as they compete for college acceptance. It has also created a nightmare for students transferring in and out of Georgia public high schools. That’s because it’s very difficult to determine where a student who is part way through Math 123 belongs in the traditional structure. Finally, Math 123 does not track correctly with the math skills needed to complete science courses such as chemistry and physics. Thus, students now face topics in science before they’ve learned the underlying math.

What can we do? First, Math 123 should be withdrawn and Georgia schools should return to the traditional math curriculum. Second, public high schools should link their curricula and graduation requirements with local universities, junior colleges and technical colleges to give kids a chance to pursue vocational training or advanced academics. Third, college-prep students should be eligible to have their course work coordinated with a university system. This would challenge Georgia’s top students and give them a leg-up when competing with kids from other states for college admissions.

Finally, we should increase the linkage between our schools and business communities by creating local all-star teams for math and science students based on criteria established and judged by the business community. This program could reward top students with scholarship money and truly celebrating their achievements.

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Enter your comments here
@I’m just sayin…
My gifted math whiz also has Asperger’s Syndrome. He had delayed speech, and did not speak until about two years of age. It was at this age, when he had only a very limited spoken vocabulary, that I noticed he had an advanced ability to recognize patterns. At that time, I baked cookies weekly to donate to a church coffee house. I always laid out the ingredients before I began. My almost 2 year old would stand by and silently watch as I measured the ingredients and mixed up the dough. While I didn’t bake the same cookies each week, the ingredients and steps of preparation were similar. One day, I had forgotten to get out the vanilla flavoring. Just as I reached the step to add it to the mixture, my silent child was already on his way to the pantry to get it for me. He had figured out the pattern of cooking steps and ingredients by observation. Up until then, my outlook was questionable for his academic success. Also, he was obsessed with any mechanical or electrical gadgets, and he would SCREAM if he wasn’t allowed to turn on the lights, the dishwasher, or push the buttons on the elevator. After two years of intensive private speech therapy, his speech and vocabulary blossomed. There is much more I could tell you. As a 10th grader, he is accelerated in all his subjects, and also is gifted in computer graphics. He is not at a loss for words if it is a topic of interest to him. He is on track for engineering school.

Another child, the “math hater”, showed artistic ability from a young age. One day, when he was about one years old, I was holding him in one arm while I leaned over to help my other children with their watercolor paint and brushes. The child reached over, grabbed the brush out of my hand, and proceeded to carefully dip it into the water jar and then rub it across the watercolor cakes and apply the colored liquid to the paper on the art table. I then sat him down with the others and he proceeded to crank out his first five “paintings” with the intensity and concentration of a much older artist. He has continued to develop his artistic skills ever since. He has also mastered and won a national award in origami. This child has an amazing talent for creating cartoon strips. He has studied/analyzed/ memorized the famous strip, CALVIN AND HOBBES. He can take some interesting fact he has learned, or an observation he has made, and turn it into a very clever cartoon with his own original illustration. I am keeping a portfolio of his work and hope to eventually display it on his own website. He has already completed a parody comic strip version of the Greek classic, the Odyssey. It’s hilarious! For him, the variety of facts and ideas he learns in school is a constant source of comic strip material. LOL!

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Exchange the word “math” for “charter system” and you’ve got the next big experiment in Georgia education. You can blame the “government” until you’re blue in the face, but the fact is that private companies will reap the rewards (again!) as they lead taxpayers who are fearful and paranoid about “government” around by the nose.
There is a reason this stuff doesn’t fly in places like CT, MA and other states with high levels of literacy.

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Oh, just blame the parents…after all, I’m sure we created the new math, anyway, right?? My youngest took traditional math until 6rth grade (and, yes, she did have to memorize the multiplication tables, etc.), took the ‘new” stuff through middle school and now in 9th, they have reverted back. She has been in accellerated math right along and has had not trouble along the way- kids are pretty flexible. My guess is, it’s the parents’ fault it failed because they don’t understand the new stuff, have not got the time or resources to learn it, and therefore aren’t much help with the 2+ hours of homework each night…shame on us!

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My child has had to deal with this garbage math since 6th grade when they first introduced it. Each year a new version was rolled out with teacher ill equiped to teach the product. I have had many a fruitless conversation with math teachers over the years. Over the ast 7 years, 2 have understood the process enough to teach it.

HOWEVER, once they get to the SAT and ACT this new math really bites the students in the butt. The SAT is traditional hard-core Algebra, Geometry, Calculus, etc.

I too would like to submit my tutor bill to the GA Public Education System. My child learned more in 6 intensive tutoring sessions than she did in the previous 4 years.

Sad

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Cranky says “My 9th grader had problems last week, and I ask to see her text book so I can figure out what the homework is asking for, so I can explain it to her. She tells me she doesn’t even have a textbook. Crazy.”

Exactly. But we parents are all to blame. It’s not the schools or the teachers, it’s always the parent’s fault.

Yes, I can learn almost anything if I have a book to study it but if I don’t have anything to read, I’m toast. Is this on the Internet? Can I do some reading now before my kids hits this stuff. What do I Google?

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The integrated math is rediculous. The teachers have no idea how to teach it and the students are left confused. My child excelled at math and has struggled with the integrated approach. The other rediculous thing is what are our student supposed to check on the college applications when they ask how many years and when did they take Algebra, Geometry, Trig and Calc? I miss the old math!!

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I have two Gwinnett graduates now at UGA and GT. Both took the “old” math through Calc B/C It served them both well. I have an 8th grader in accelerated integrated math (Math 1 and 1/2 Math 2). He is doing well, but they appear to change topics daily. I really question how good of a foundation he is building. I have asked the question as to how well students who go down this track fair in the upper grades, but I have never gotten an answer. Old math seemed to work very well, in my opinion.

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Enter your comments here

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Hit the key too quickly, 1,2,3 report cards – another wonderful fad that Cobb embraced as well. And while they do not give out 1,2,3 in HS they do utilize the philosophy behind the standards based report cards. Students are allowed to retake exams they fail, no zeros (or anything below 50) given, pre tests prior to the actual test and the list continues. Many at the CCSD central office LOVE the integrated math and the standards based report cards. While Cobb may give lip service to switching math, I’ll wait until I actually see it happen.

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I wish we could return to the “old” math of the 1980s. That trajectory brought us “The Greatest Generation.” Why did we have to change it? I’m all for Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2, because most students “got” it. Now, so much of it is a big jumble, with all these new terms and complexity. Why do humans do this to themselves?

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@Eric
umm…. If I’m correct, the “greatest generation” were those people of the World War II era. I think they went to school well before the 1980s.

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The issue is not with integrated math, but the implementation. Delaware and Utah are quite successfully implementing integrated curricula. Georgia developed good integrated standards, but assumed publishers would produce materials for them (they weren’t; one publisher cobbled materials together with little thought) and built insufficient teacher buy-in or professional development. Back to the future will not, in and of itself, help schools meet the challenges of the new standards.

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Veteran Teacher-

the standards may be largely the same but they were not designed to be taught. Their purpose beyond PR is to guide the development of the learning tasks. It is the tasks and activities that serve as the assessments.

In many ways the standards are just a con to prevent parents and taxpayers and well-intentioned officials like Dr Barge from appreciating just how radically things have been changed before it’s a fait accompli.

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LIkely two major issues doomed the “project:” 1) Implementation of such an enormous change in curriculum at the state level (much less even at the school or district levels) requires equally enormous planning, training and resources. Teacher redevelopment would have taken years for such complex changes, with extensive monitoring and continued training. 2) One size never has and never will fit all, yet the implementers assumed that all kids were from Lake Woebegon.

Reading the pieces today I was struck by the comment that schools yet again would have to match instruction to the test (now the as yet unknown representation of the Common Core) so that the district would “look good” (couched in terms of “student performance”) – Never mind what might be best for student learning.

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You know if you want to claim nothing is changing you should have gotten professors like Tom Romberg or Richard Lesh to not explain that this is not about teaching math as a body of knowledge any longer.

It’s actually theft by deception and what is being stolen is our tax dollars and our children’s lives and this country’s future. It’s the content indeed. Do you realize there’s an overwhelming body of evidence that contradicts that and it’s too late to purge? Gotcha.

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Good Grief, Attentive Parent, I was not making a political statement, for crying out loud!! I was merely pointing out to the dozens of posters who think that the “integrated” GPS standards are ending and some magical new curriculum is coming in to solve all the problems that the topics under the so called “new” curriculum are almost the exact same topics as under the current GPS.

At no time did I state a preference or any buy-in for the GPS. For the record, regardless of any “standards” or other curricula that are thrust upon me, I teach math. Students assigned to me expected to learn content (I have gray hair, so I know what math content is!!), and they are expected to use said content to solve problems using real data. If they can’t rise to that challenge, they fail. I could care less about being labeled “hard.” I have taught students that went to Ivy League schools, Tech, and UGA. Almost all of them have done well in their math classes, and frankly report that the college classes were easier than my class.

To take it a step further, I know many, many other teachers who feel the same and teach the same way. If others do not meet your expectations, deal with them.

As for me, be it QCC, GPS, CCGPS, or any other alphabetical combination of perceived curricula letters you want to come up with, I am going to continue to teach math, REAL MATH, until I retire, which mercifully will only be a few years from now!!

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Thanks for the good work, VT2!

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I am an old, former college professor who has been employed in the education field since 1971 and I still teach online courses. Algebra, geometry, and statistics are distinct, unrelated subjects that should be taught separately, in my opinion, as I don’t see any point in trying to integrate unrelated subjects. I say this from the perspective of someone who earned a PhD in statistics in the mid-1970s and who has written five statistics books, in addition to having taught various types of math courses, including having taught algebra during the 1970s.

The focus should be not on trying to fit various subjects into a single course in an effort to try to empower students as much as possible, but rather trying to teach each subject as well as possible. In 1975, when I was still a graduate student, I was teaching a calculus course for business majors and I explained to the class that I was trying to teach them how to think, rather than just working problems on the board in a somewhat mechanical fashion. A student in the back of the room stated “We’ve never had to think before”. He wasn’t joking. (The school is a well-known research university, by the way.)

I often check out Amazon reviews of my books and one reader recently wrote in part “the discussion of some of the topics is challenging because the author aims at showing the reader the “why” along with the “how”. This is one of the strengths of the book”.

How many of us learned math by engaging in a lot of memorization rather than trying to truly understand the subject matter? Lori Heikes, the 1993 Wheeler High School valedictorian if I remember correctly and the daughter of a retired Georgia Tech professor, was quoted in the AJC as saying that we should move away from a system that emphasizes rote memorization. It has been almost 20 years since she said that, but have we done so?

Herman Chernoff is an 88 year-old, renowned, former statistics professor who is retired from Harvard. Almost 10 years ago he, interestingly enough, wrote a short (free) online book entitled
“Algebra I for Students Comfortable with Arithmetic”. (see http://www.stat.harvard.edu/People/Faculty/Herman_Chernoff/Herman_Chernoff_Algebra_1.pdf ). He makes the following very important statements on the first page of Chapter 2: “I don’t recommend feats of memory in this text. Memorizing rules for solving problems is a way of avoiding understanding. Without understanding, great feats of memory are required to handle a limited class of problems, and there is no ability to handle new types of problems”.

Think about those words. I once told Herman that he and I may be just about the only ones who understand this. He replied that there are others, but I wonder how many others. If we focus on understanding, the relative performance of our grade school students in international competition, which is deplorable for a world leader, should certainly improve.

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We have our kids in government school for the social aspects. They have to learn social skills. Before I throw this blanket out here, I know it’s the exception and not the rule but we ran into too many home school kids that were socially introverted and had no social skills with others their age. We work with our kids at home and also throw in some Kumon for good measure. That way they get the reps they need on a given topic and not just rush, rush so they can take a CRCT. Harcourt-Brace are the only ones that win with this system.

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ScienceTeacher671,

Tell Truth to Power.

If only more of our colleagues had your moxey.

Huh, what can we do about that?

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Math Teacher brings up an interesting issue: On the surface , this integrated math concept seems pretty damn dumb, however, one has to wonder…just exactly to what depth of knowledge and application is the average high school student expected/required to demonstrate? I am quite certain many of my generational contemporaries can remember some of those problems which required some mental gymnastics in applied math disciplines. It was not enough to simply demonstrate a fleeting knowledge of numbers manipulations. Our trig studies ventured into areas of basic stress analysis, building (on paper) bridges; determining values (stresses) at each girder; the effects various angles would have on stability and weight-bearing capacities. Little did we know that these mental torture sessions were simply an introduction to one of the first engineering courses, statics, which, by the time we found ourselves in the relative freedom of college, would seem almost like childs’ play.

Our teachers were allowed to be tough on us; to introduce us to concepts far far beyond minimum standards. It probably would have been enough to simply memorize those sins/cosins, tans/cotans, etc. The very same standards were expected in the studies of algebra and plane/solid geometry.

So when I try to envision this integrated math bs, I have to wonder if the same standards of proficiency, which I had to master, are still the norm. Essential concepts in algebra, geometry, and trig can probably be congealed in a few lessons…IF (CAPITAL LETTERS/BOLD FACE PRINT…teachers are capable AND students have the discipline to absorb and digest the material. It could be done, but, quite frankly, I cannot envision the sense in this approach to learning math and, more importantly, learning to embrace mathematics. Whoever pooped out the very idea of this integrated business probably has no business in the world of education…but hey, that’s just Ole Guy noise…I’ve done my time in hell, now it’s another generations’ turn.

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My thought is there were several things at play with integrated math. First was and still is the complete failure of the public education system. Given 13, and for some 14 years, a complete education cycle, to develop student knowledge and produce a functioning, calculating, literate human at graduation day has been a catastrophic adult leadership failure. From the men and women that sit in the big buildings in Atlanta to the DOE leaches that use false information in their press releases and continue to contribute nothing to the solution. To State Board along with all local Board of Education members and every association that survives only because of taxpayer dollars. Not one of these people, working by themselves or as a group, has a dog who can sit on command. And yet they lead the most expensive tax payer funded disaster on the planet? Sorry folks, I know all y’alls are all used to awards and accolades but today isn’t looking so good for even a pat on the back or an Atta-Boy/Girl.

Second indicator for high schools under NCLB was graduation rate. It appears as we approach the end of the program and states are asked to show their hand, someone was astute enough to realize there was a huge failure across the board but especially in math. So how do you fix a failure of the first 9 years of education? Easy, you shove 3 years of education down their throats at once. How Brilliant?

Being observant enough to see this too is a failure, they eliminate the High School Graduation Test which in turn removes the second indicator failure. Bring on EOC tests? Now we move on to Common Core which buys more time for the ever failing education system and they continue to lie to us as to student achievement through the many offices we allow them to occupy all the while failing at the task they are hired, appointed and paid to do. So who is to blame?

It’s Good Work If You Can Get It!

But have you no pride?

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WOW

…., there are those conspiracy theorists like JK and AP who just blow everything WAY out of proportion. Some believe changing the math program in HS will solve every ills of the society…..

The Katy Cox crowd really has the spin machine on. Let’s look at your record while in control:

1) Destroyed vocational education and used creative math to cover up drop-out rates
2) Passed out waivers after failed new programs like pizza coupons
3) Claimed no problem with cheating scandal
4) Even after cheating test scores not looking good

I could go on and on…….Seriously the track record is….Do you even buy your BS?

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One things we can count on about conspiracy theorists is their passion. Of course, in exchange, they seem to loose every rationality… There just isn’t any point arguing with them. I am just making an objective observation.

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@ Wow,

Another thing you can count on is their verboseness.

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@ Wow and Something Else,
The state of GA is counting on your gullibility. I’ve seen the damning evidence Attentive Parent speaks about and I’ve talked to many professors behind the scenes. I have even spoken with DOE numerous times and felt I needed to take a shower afterward. You can denigrate the messenger all you want; the message will not change. Students are being shortchanged by this crappy curriculum. Saying it isn’t so won’t make it go away.

Parents that give half a damn need to supplement their kids math education. I’ve been doing it for years and I will continue until we either move out of state or my kids graduate, whichever comes first.

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……………But some of you claim that the schools, or their masters, are deliberately setting out to prevent our children from learning math…………..

I have written numerous articles that have been published at numerous newspapers across the state on this topic. I challenge you to find anything I have written on the topic claiming what you wrote. My issues with math 123 have been focused on the lack of a clear thought-out plan to deal with one size fit all approach that would leave vocational and non math oriented students behind, an odd-ball curriculum that still has no answer how to deal with kids transferring in and out of the system, blaming teachers on ill thought implementation plan and a curriculum that does not match the current university system making it difficult for kids applying for college especially out of state. I have pointed out the following problems pre-implementation as well during the failed roll-out. And through the years NO ONE from the Kathy Cox crowd would ever deal with the above concerns. And I know that many people from inside the system as well as many parents had the same concerns.

……..My “poor kid” scored 790 on the SAT math after being in Math 123 starting in 6th grade……..

The system failed on a macro, if you are advocating a math program you should understand micro examples are irrelevant as a testing means of success or failure. You should be very proud your kid is an exellent math student. But that has nothing to do with the problems in this failed implementation of an ill thought out plan by KATHY COX and company.

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“Math: Getting in step with rest of country. Was this fling with integrated math doomed from the start?”

Well, if we’re trying to get in step with the rest of the country, we should have been doing exactly what the rest of the country was, and is doing.

Anytime you ignore your base (teachers), listen to too many eggheads, and move away from common sense, your program will go down in flames. So, yes…it was doomed from the start.

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Jerry,

Do you plan to attend the AJC Education event scheduled for next week and the Georgia Partnership for Excellence in Education’s(GPEE) quarterly meeting slated for 11/15?

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I’m glad to hear this curriculum is on it’s way out. Unfortunately, it won’t help my senior who has been struggling in highschool math since 9th grade. He started highschool when this math curriculum came into play. Prior to highschool, he excelled in math testing. He was placed in TAG courses for all subjects since 3rd grade. We moved to GA when he started 4th grade. The educational environment is GA is significantly subpar. Nowhere’s perfect, but there’s a lot of better places out there to be. I didn’t want to uproot him again and I regret that decision.

As for the curriculum, it needs to be booted out the door ASAP. The teachers can’t handle it, the textbooks are dismal for self-review/self-teaching, and overall, it’s just not working out. For my son, I am researching “whirlwind tour” type of math guides that are targeted toward older adults returning to college. I believe that help him recover from this experience by filling in many holes, while helping him build confidence in his math abillities. Fortunately, there’s a few highly recommended guides out there, some written in a more casual (fun) manner and some computer based.

Someone mentioned the lack of drill. That was a problem in previous state, too. The teachers recognized and explained that to parents early on. They provided supplemental materials to use at home to practice those math facts. So, like I said, nothing’s perfect, but how those imperfections are handled, that’s the real indicator of a quality environment, in my opinion.

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As a high school math teacher, I am still concerned about the implementation of these new common core standards. I don’t care what you call the class–Math 3 or Advanced Algebra or whatever, some kids are STILL not going to be ready (perhaps NEVER ready) to take such a class. What are the plans for those kids? different diploma types? I hope so!!!! I teach the Math 3 Support kids and Math 3 and most of the kids in my classes are not really college material–and there is nothing wrong with that!!!

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Jerry Eads, “As noted extensively in the lit, this was at the expense of teaching the kids who could pass the tests with their eyes closed, so as schools were forced to focus on the low performance levels required by “high standards” minimum competency tests, of course the overall average performance fell with the absence of strong instruction to the high performers”

Didn’t know there was a body of research to support it, but that certainly matches what I’ve seen anecdotally.

It also seems that the students worked a little bit harder for the first year or two, until they figured out that they would actually be promoted whether they passed the CRCT or not. They still haven’t figured out that there’s no committee at the high school level, though.

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The most ridiculous teaching standard ever to be implemented. Idiotic plan by an idiotic board and Super. It’s about as bad as the A/B schedule in Middle School. One week you have science on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, the next week Tuesday and Thursday. Stupidity.

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It is a shame our educators could not implement this correctly. Integrated Math is a GOOD thing. The old methods of teaching different math disciplines in silo’s do little to promote true understanding and help explain whay the USA lags behind other nations in education.

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” Could it be that the main problem with the math switch was that teachers were not trained? ”

The problem is that Georgia has a high percentage of students who are not motivated to learn.The few that do try are accused of ” acting white.”

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Nice! This little experiment began when my daughter was in middle school and will end just as she graduates! Thanks a lot Kathy Cox!

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Integrated math has been a nightmare from the start. As a parent of a high school student and a teacher, I was blown away that at the high school informational meeting a month prior to school starting, teachers had not been trained. My son, as well as 40% of the students who took the class were required to go to summer school before moving on. Summer school for high school students costs somewhere between $250-$350. It seems as if parents should be reimbursed. The kids were set up to fail in this model.

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Turn off the television and play games that require problem solving skills. Make these game fun to win and acceptable to lose, come up with a new strategy, and play again.

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thomas

I ask because what happens at a few well administered schools in this state is the exception, not the rule. So when I read a parent stating that their child had an excellent educational experience claiming the problem is with the parents, I like to check graduation rates and SAT/ACT scores with the school to see if the success is with the parents or the schools. I am quite certain AJinCobb’s & Wow’s kids do/did not attend a “Hair On Fire School.” Please tell me what your thoughts are!

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thomas,

…………..The offered their own personal experiences as evidences to the general (and false) claim that the new program is failing all students……….

I have not seen anyone claim the program failed all students. Yet on a macro the program did fail via the leadership lack of understanding basic QC processes. Any rational person could see that Kathy Cox and team had not fully thought-out an implementation plan taking into consideration all the issues. I do think that integrating some concepts connecting different disciplines in math may have some validity. Yet to implement the concept without taking into consideration a one size fit all approach that would leave vocational and non math oriented students behind, an odd-ball curriculum that still has no answer how to deal with kids transferring in and out of the system, blaming teachers on ill thought implementation plan and a curriculum that does not match the current university system making it difficult for kids applying for college especially out of state is irrational! Finally, once again when confronted with the issues even after your failed implementation you still have no answers, only attacks.

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Even one of the few on your side pointed out the problem! Wow this is really basic QC!

…..Susan Andrews, school superintendent in Muscogee County, said many students did well with the integrated approach. “But it was difficult to communicate to parents and out-of-state universities and hard on students moving in and out of state.”…….

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