Bible classes: The good book didn’t have good numbers in Georgia high schools
Tim Morris teaches a Bible class to juniors and seniors at Woodland High School in Cartersville. (AP Photo/David Goldman)
While Georgia was the first state to permit state-approved Bible elective classes in public schools, few districts are offering them now because they can’t afford to hold elective classes with empty seats.
The Legislature approved the Bible classes in 2006. Georgia’s standards for the two English electives — “Literature and History of the Old Testament Era” and “Literature and History of the New Testament Era” — do not provide specific lessons. Students are expected to learn how the Bible came to be, the literary styles that were used, major narratives, the book’s influence on contemporary culture and the development of translations.
During the 2007-08 school year — the first the courses could be taught — 37 of the state’s nearly 440 high schools had the class. Most were outside the metro area, although two schools in Rockdale taught it, and a couple of Cobb students took it as independent study.
With financial shortfalls, schools today can’t offer classes that don’t draw a crowd. Georgia school chief John Barge gave the AP reporter an interesting explanation for the scant enrollment: Students can’t take the Bible classes because they’re repeating math classes.
According to the story on AJC.com:
“We’re not going to utilize a teacher for a whole period with 10 to 15 students. In the past, we may have considered that, but with the economy being the way it is, we just can’t afford to do that, ” said Columbia County schools Superintendent Charles Nagle, who has cut the Bible classes from three to one in his tiny district.
Just 21 middle and high schools in 16 districts — a fraction of the 180 school districts in the state — offered the voluntary classes last school year, the latest data available. That’s compared to 48 districts offering the classes four years ago.
Some of that drop-off is due to students having little time in their class schedules for elective courses because they have to repeat the state’s new, tougher math courses or need an Advanced Placement class to help with college admissions, educators said.
“We’re seeing a lot of elective classes, not just Bible, close because there aren’t enough students taking the courses because they’re repeating math several times, ” said state schools Superintendent John Barge, who worked in Barrow County schools before he was elected.
Senate President Pro Tem Tommie Williams, a Republican from Lyons, said he hopes cash-strapped schools can begin offering Bible classes online to help cut down on costs but keep the courses available. Williams, the most powerful state senator in Georgia, was a backer of the law when it passed in 2006.
“It is unfortunate that schools are not able to offer these classes, but when times are tough local and state government have to make decisions based on the realities of their budgets, in the same way Georgia families and business have had to do with their own budgets, ” Williams said.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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121 comments Add your comment
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
October 25th, 2011
5:02 am
Let’s teach The Bible at home, in Sunday School, in church services, in CCD classes and in private schools.
teacher&mom
October 25th, 2011
6:47 am
We’ve had to drop several academic “elective” courses due to budget restrictions and students requiring math support classes.
I’m sure Williams would love to see the classes offered online. Online high school courses is the next “wave” of policy ideas to hit GA schools. The policy makers love the idea of one online teacher for several 100 students.
catlady
October 25th, 2011
6:49 am
Our Christian Learning Center was built about 25 years ago, somehow on the campus of the high school. I consider myself a devout Christian, but it is plain offensive to allow kids to “leave campus” and go to this during school time, instead of devoting themselves to badly needed academics and pursue their Christian education at home. And, it “just so happens” that every leader the Center has had has been a Baptist minister!
Ronnie Raygun
October 25th, 2011
7:16 am
How long will it take the brain trust in the Gold Dome to just make Bible classes count as a math class and claim they solved he problem.
Jack
October 25th, 2011
7:27 am
Religion should be taught at home and in church; not in public schools.
reality 2
October 25th, 2011
7:52 am
I assume Barge continues to use the GPS math as his scape goat, but let’s get real. HS GPS was first taught in 2008-09 school year. So, the only students who had opportunities to repeat a math course several times are those attending HS with a block schedule. Moreover, I don’t get this argument about repeating any course being a cause for students not taking an elective. Is the State counting the credits for failed courses toward graduation?
Atlanta mom
October 25th, 2011
7:56 am
So, we can have an entire semester to teach about the bible, but the world has ended when a middle school student reads one essay about an Islam woman. What’s wrong with this picture?
reality 2
October 25th, 2011
8:02 am
Just wait till a liberal English teacher teaching this course emphasizing the Bible is just a bunch of stories written by people, not an inspired word of God, the Genesis story is just a mythology, etc.
APS 4th grade teacher & a Proud Cheater!
October 25th, 2011
8:05 am
Judgment Day: Cheating to spare souls?
We need religion. Nothing else has worked for us in APS.
So many lack morals…..But, we must first define morality.
The meaning of morality has been turned upside down.
Thank you very much,
Praying in the Trenches
carlosgvv
October 25th, 2011
8:33 am
The religious right feel they have a God given duty to spread Christianity any way and every way they can. This includes our schools and you may be certain they will NEVER give up. The concept of seperation of Church and State means nothing to these crazed zealots and, unless we want to live in an America where the Church is the State, we must constantly be on guard against these fanatics.
HS Public Teacher
October 25th, 2011
8:34 am
Maureen -
Come on… This is such a minor issue considering everything going on with Georgia education. Why in the world do you write about this? Is it simply the formula:
public schools + religon = sensationalism?????
V for Vendetta
October 25th, 2011
8:35 am
Good. Like we needed religion in school in the first place . . .
Now how are they going to deal with the World Lit. curriculum? They might realize that the flood story was just copied from the Epic of Gilgamesh! Oh, the horror!
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
8:37 am
@catlady
What leads you to believe this?
“I consider myself a devout Christian”
APS H.S. Teacher
October 25th, 2011
8:42 am
Keep your flying spaghetti monster teachings out of my public school!!
Maureen Downey
October 25th, 2011
8:42 am
HS, I would rewrite that equation this way: public schools + religion = political hay.
I doubt this topic will go away as we have a Legislature with a loose regard for the constitutional divide between church and state. And this remains an issue on which I receive calls from parents who feel their non Christian children are being imposed upon in their schools with Christian-oriented programs, comments and instruction. I also hear from Christian parents who simply don’t believe religion ought to promoted in the classroom, even their own religion.
Maureen
APS H.S. Teacher
October 25th, 2011
8:43 am
I am good WITHOUT god.
mborim
October 25th, 2011
9:04 am
Finally—-Separation of church and state. Thank you Founding Fathers!
Pluto
October 25th, 2011
9:13 am
Oh boy this always gets the atheists and agnostics all riled up. The hollow argument that those “crazed Christian zealots” are trying to take over the joint is a red herring since Jesus already let us in on a little secret when he said His Kingdom is not of this world. We are merely passing through so excuse us.
V for Vendetta
October 25th, 2011
9:22 am
Pluto,
Feel free to pass through, just be quiet about it. You’re more than welcome to speed up your passing if you so desire.
Dr. Monica Henson
October 25th, 2011
9:23 am
I’m with Maureen on this one: public schools + religion = political hay. There is no need for a separate Bible course in a nonreligious school. English teachers and social studies teachers, particularly on the high school level, reference the Bible (and other religious works) frequently when they teach certain time periods & pieces of literature. When I was a high school English teacher, one of my senior English thematic units was a quarter-long study called “Women and Power.” In this unit, the students read East of Eden, the story of the Fall in Genesis (KJV), sections of Milton’s Paradise Lost, The Taming of the Shrew, and the Wife of Bath’s Tale. The focus of the unit was the Wife of Bath’s essential question, “What do women want?” and how did/do women gain and wield power. The students finished up with a research paper on a powerful woman and compared their choices to the women we read about.
(Lest the blog posters think I’m a die-hard feminist, we did a later thematic unit on “The Fatherless Hero” that included Luke Skywalker, Hamlet, and Huckleberry Finn, which included several Biblical references as well.)
It is utterly impossible to teach Shakespeare, much less Chaucer and Milton, without imparting significant information and knowledge about the Bible. The key is: it has to be done (in a public school) without advancing and favoring the Christian religion over any other. This restriction seems to be what irritates the Bible-thumpers the most. (I am a Presbyterian and a former Sunday School superintendent, so I can say “Bible-thumper.”)
Pluto
October 25th, 2011
9:27 am
@ V Is that all you got?
Satan's House
October 25th, 2011
9:28 am
APS and its immoral crowd of administrators and teachers is beyond redemption!
Hav e mercy on the defenseless children.
SCLCrev
Shar
October 25th, 2011
9:34 am
After I had to take my daughters out of APS they both went to St. Pius X, despite the fact that our family is not religious and certainly not Catholic.
When looking at the school, my husband and I made sure that Biblical stories were not wedged into academic subjects, and that biology included evolution. The school, although an arm of the Atlanta diocese, makes it very plain that their mission is to teach academically accepted science, and that other theories, while debatable, should be taught at home and at church.
St. Pius requires that every student take religion class every year. This made me a tad nervous until I checked out the curriculum: Old Testament, New Testament, an entire year of ethics, the theologican and philosophical bases for Catholic theology, often contrasted with that of other ‘world’ religions. There was no insistence on believing a particular religious story and debates were encouraged. Both of my girls (who complained bitterly about having to take religion) have been surprised at how able they are to effectively counter the arguments of fundamentalist college students or see the Biblical references in literature and art.
St. Pius, which I greatly admire for the strength of their faculty and the administration’s ability to combine discipline with a good understanding of adolescent behavior and needs, was scrupulous in keeping any proselytizing or retribution against nonbelievers out of the classroom. I trusted them to respect my daughters’ agnosticism the same way I expected my girls to respect the majority’s Catholic beliefs. I confess I also verified that trust by checking in with my girls and looking over the syllabi and the books for their classes.
I would have a very hard time extending that trust to many members of our state Legislature, or to fundamentalist-leaning Bible teachers.
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
9:46 am
@APS H.S. Teacher
“I am good WITHOUT god.”
“Good” is a comparative adjective. What is your standard to which you compare yourself?
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
9:57 am
At least Christian home schoolers can spell “separation”.
@carlosgvv You wrote:
“The concept of seperation of Church and State means nothing to these crazed zealots”
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
10:05 am
“Finally—-Separation of church and state. Thank you Founding Fathers!”
What does the phrase have to do with the Founding Fathers? I’ve looked everywhere in the Constitution and I can’t find it. Could you please tell me where it is?
Abdul Bin Ladin
October 25th, 2011
10:08 am
In the name of Allah, the beneficial, the merciful.
This is why the west is held in contempt by the Ulema. You dhimmis are godless and hopelessly corrupt. Hellfire awaits you…
Religon is Personal
October 25th, 2011
10:09 am
Religion has no place in any aspect of tax supported society.
I was irked by the singing of “God Bless America” at last night’s World Series game in Arlington Texas. The stadium construction project received tax abatements.
We still don’t get it!
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
10:12 am
@Shar
Wow. What a testimony! So why is the Catholic Diocese stealing money from devoted religious Catholics to help fund this school? Why not apply for charter school status and have the public at large pay for it?
V for Vendetta
October 25th, 2011
10:30 am
Pluto,
I don’t need anything else. I have reality. You have fiction, ghosts, unicorns, zombies, etc. Good luck with all that.
Truth,
Are you suggesting that religion–or christians in particular–have a lock on morals? Or that morals are only possible thanks to some divine source? How infantile.
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
10:33 am
@Religon is Personal
“Religion has no place in any aspect of tax supported society.”
According to your proclamation of truth, the U.S.A. SHOULD BE THE MOST RELIGIOUS PLACE ON THE PLANET!
You do realize that citizens have not fully supported this society with their taxes since 1913, yes? Our national debt is now $16+ trillion. All tax revenues can’t even cover the MINIMUM INTEREST PAYMENT on our National Debt principle. This nation has been insolvent for quite some time. Your puny tax contribution is like spit in the wind. Sorry to tell you this, but you are a DEBT SLAVE. We’re worse off than Greece. We just happen to be the reserve currency, but that will soon come to an end. Have you noticed the THOUSANDS occupying Wall Street and around the world? Perhaps they have a clue about this, yes?
Ashley
October 25th, 2011
10:44 am
I graduated in 1976 from a high-school in Huntsville,Alabama…..as a junior I took Bible Lit. there were no protest or cries of separation of Church and State. I guess thirty six years ago we weren’t so PC, of \ course I remember saying the Pledge of Allegiance and singing God Bless America in elementary school. We live in a different world ….cheaters and corrupt school officials rule the hallways.
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
10:48 am
@V for Vendetta You said:
“I don’t need anything else. I have reality.”
Wow! Where does one get this “reality”?
Ashley
October 25th, 2011
10:53 am
Oh….by the way Bible Lit. was an english elective, not a requirement just a choice.
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
10:58 am
@Dr. Monica Henson You said:
“(I am a Presbyterian and a former Sunday School superintendent, so I can say “Bible-thumper.”)”
I am confused. What does this statement have to do with the Bible? What is its relevance to the conversation? Exactly what is a “Bible-thumper?”
Poetry Man
October 25th, 2011
11:05 am
I teach this class as a literature class. I address metaphor, allegory, and mythology. The Bible is an important book in literature. It is alluded to more than any other book in Western Civilization. No preaching or proselytizing is allowed in my classrrom. No one religion is held in higher esteem than another. The students sign up for the class because they know I will be honest and open with them. We have good conversations about all world religions and I try to answer all of their questions. Teaching the Bible does not mean teaching religion.
@ Ashley (10:44 am)
October 25th, 2011
11:18 am
Ashley -
Based on your testimonial:
I can only imagine Alabama is one of the leading states in educational attainment!
Yankee Prof
October 25th, 2011
11:24 am
As an agnostic and a staunch proponent of the separation of church and state, I am, not ironically, all for getting kids to actually read the Bible in public school. I see numerous advantages to this.
First off, when students do try to force a religious argument within the confines of a secular institution, there will at least be an increased chance in their getting the quotes right. Secondly, in many cases, getting the quotes right actually serves to undermine many conservative or fundamentalist arguments. Finally, as a longtime English instructor, I know that there’s no surer way of getting kids to hate something than forcing them to read about it.
So, their side wins the battle, my side wins the war.
Prophecy
October 25th, 2011
11:24 am
If there was a Jesus the Atlanta Public Schools would be extinct!
V for Vendetta
October 25th, 2011
11:29 am
Truth,
Existence exists. It was here before us, and it will be here long after us. You can tell all the stories you want about how it started, but I’ll look to science for my explanations, not religion. Throughout the ages, science has trumped religious dogma again and again–despite religion’s best efforts to hold it back. While you might take great comfort in living in a fantasy world, I’ll make the best of time here in the real world.
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
11:31 am
@Poetry Man
Why do you consider yourself qualified to teach a course on the Bible and “all world religions”?
“No preaching or proselytizing is allowed in my classroom.”
If this is true, how do you handle this quote from the Bible? Do you skip it?
“I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at[a] His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.” 2 Timothy 4:1-5
Also, If you use this course to directly attack/contradict what is written in the Bible, a RELIGIOUS book, don’t you then DIRECTLY violate the First Amendment? After all, Christians were first know as the “people of the Book”. To attack the Bible is to attack Christians and Jews, as it DEFINES their religion. Just sayin’.
Pluto
October 25th, 2011
11:39 am
@ V Wow that’s really deep. Obviously you have your own “god” and your own “reality”. That’s nice. Good luck with that but I think I’ll go my way.
thomas
October 25th, 2011
11:39 am
I don’t have any problem teaching the Bible as a literature – it is, one of the most ifluential and important literature. But, it is an elective course, and just because the Bible happens also to be a religeous book does not make these elective courses any more important than others. Can we see how widely some of other elective courses are being taught? Then, we can have a reasonable discussion whether or not the numbers we are looking at are reasonable.
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
11:47 am
@V for Vendetta
Your answer did not answer my question. Plus, you made assumptions and used undefined terms. A poor answer indeed!
Please define “reality” and explain why you don’t need anything else.
How do you know you don’t need anything else?
If you are using “reality” as a synonym for “existence,” you claim, “It was here before us, and it will be here long after us.” What scientific method/experiment did you use to come to this conclusion? You stated it as fact. Do you claim science can PROVE events in the future? What scientific instrument did you use to see into the future to irrefutably prove this claim? Is it patented? Could I get in on the ground floor?
According to your definition of reality, do dreams “exist”?
Does information “exist”?
I’m sure I’ll think of more questions. I look forward to your answers.
V for Vendetta
October 25th, 2011
11:50 am
Pluto, my reality is the same as yours. I just don’t choose to add to it based on the teachings of a bunch of oral traditions which were simply lifted from previous cultures’ oral traditions. I’m satisfied with reality and my life. I’m not so arrogant or greedy to feel as though I deserve something more than this. Why are you?
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
12:05 pm
@V
“I just don’t choose to add to it based on the teachings of a bunch of oral traditions which were simply lifted from previous cultures’ oral traditions”
Didn’t you state at one time on this blog that you are a follower of Ayn Rand’s writings and speeches? Wasn’t she also influenced by other philosophers and writers? How is this any different?
V for Vendetta
October 25th, 2011
12:07 pm
Truth,
Your haggling over semantics means very little. It is easy to assert that because we don’t know something (”we” meaning science) there must be some sort of supernatural explanation. Such thinking is illogical. The exponential increase in technology and knowledge about our environment and our universe has obviated the need for supernatural explanations. There are only a few like you who cling to the rapidly shrinking icebergs of faith, most of which are predicated on how the universe began or how life began. Please.
You want to dismantle scientific explanations and replace them with what? A dusty old book written by men whose knowledge of the world around them was explained in parables and stories? (Stories that are violent, misogynistic, exclusionary, and self-serving, no less)
Sound about right?
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
12:09 pm
Wow. Since you’ve never defined your term “reality”, how do you know it is the same as Pluto’s? Are you twins with co-joined heads? I’m confused. Please help me out.
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
12:14 pm
@ V
Your whole response was an irrelevant argument. Perhaps a course in logic would help. I am quite familiar with the scientific method. Let’s just say I’ve had experience with medical school. I asked you to explain your statement in scientific terms, because you stated that that is your source of truth. The truth is, you could not give me a scientific answer. THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE.
Progressive Humanist
October 25th, 2011
12:17 pm
When I taught high school literature I would have loved to have taught the Bible class. We teach Greek and Roman mythology; why not teach Christian mythology? It would be a great opportunity to help students develop critical thinking- We could examine why this “moral” code contains advice on how to conduct slavery and when you should kill your children. We could examine whether the positions of the current religious right actually conform to the teachings of Jesus, who said some good things about helping the poor (socialist!), but also suggested followers leave their families (one of the most immoral actions I can think of) to follow him (classic cult behavior). Yes, that class would have been a real learning experience for students.
Mother of Intelligent American Children
October 25th, 2011
12:28 pm
The class in question is titled, “The Bible as Literature.” It is an elective, like band or a foreign language. Students must specifically request this class and it must be approved by each child’s parent. The Bible, as the teacher of this class has stated, is alluded to more than any other book in Western Civilization. Knowing the stories from the Bible will help these students understand so many other things in Literature. This teacher is preparing these students to be competitive in the world by having a in-depth education, not slanted to any one religion. These students WANT an unbiased literary look at the Bible. It helps them to read the pages for themselves.
Another Math Teacher
October 25th, 2011
12:31 pm
Truth in Moderation :
I find your name amusing. You sure do post truth in moderation. Nothing absolute in your posts, especially truth.
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
12:40 pm
@Another Math Teacher
“You sure do post truth in moderation.”
Could you please make your comment specific? Please show me the error of my ways.
Isn’t that what math teachers do?…LOL!
Pluto
October 25th, 2011
12:40 pm
@ V That is mighty presumptuous of you and totally wrong that your reality and mine are anything like one another. Let’s just say life as “we” know it is about learning truths that will eventually lead one to the Bible which I believe is God’s way of communicating with us. Therefore this is not about religion, which has gotten as many if not more people killed than government, but about a personal relationship with Him. I don’t need the pope or some cardinal to tell me what I can discern from the Bible myself. I say if we can get students to read the Bible, good. Maybe some good will come from it. As to your allegations of arrogance and greed and know not what you say?!?
Atlanta Mom
October 25th, 2011
12:44 pm
@ Truth, you said “So why is the Catholic Diocese stealing money from devoted religious Catholics to help fund this school? Why not apply for charter school status and have the public at large pay for it?”
That’s just a joke right?
Because, if it were a charter school, ALL students would have to be eligble to attend. And, I’m pretty sure, St. Pius is not interested in all students.
John K
October 25th, 2011
1:07 pm
So the fundies wanted to have their religion socialized by the government so they could spend more of their time telling me I can’t buy beer on Sunday?
liberalefty
October 25th, 2011
1:12 pm
the south claims to be the most religious, yet its definitely the racist. i guess their god is a racist too.
Burbank Dawg
October 25th, 2011
1:12 pm
Raised in GA, now living in California, where the state just passed a law that, starting next year, public schools MUST teach kids about homosexuals’ contributions throughout history—in ALL GRADES!
I can only imagine the uproar for when other states, including Georgia, do the same.
Texas Pete
October 25th, 2011
1:21 pm
All I can say is that my 2nd grade teacher used to read from the Holy Bible about 10 minutes before lunch everyday and it didn’t ruin me. Not sure what happened to the other kids but I couldn’t find anything particularly damaging about teachings of the Bible.
Texas Pete
October 25th, 2011
1:24 pm
LOL, you serious Burbank Dawg? Parents are all worried about some negative influence on their kids but I’m worried about teachers having to deal with the jokes most kids will make up while studying those contributions.
On a serious note, some serious bullying can come of this once a few students try to taunt the suspected and out kids in school.
Zeus is my homeboy
October 25th, 2011
1:26 pm
I have no problem with this course, but you people do realize the Bible is no more legitimate than Greek mythology. Just sayin….
Creationism
October 25th, 2011
1:28 pm
First the Heavens…………..then APS
Who needs a Hell?
SBinF
October 25th, 2011
1:29 pm
Still waiting on Ga. schools to start teaching Quran literature classes….
atlmom
October 25th, 2011
1:35 pm
My mother always thought that courses such as this – teaching the bible as HISTORY – should be taught in the schools. But she also was a realist, and she realized that that wasn’t really possible.
The thing is – people don’t know how to teach the bible as history. So, no, it shouldn’t be taught in high schools. If people want to learn more, they can take courses in college.
Because, yes, religion should be taught at home.
It’s SO ANNOYING when the teachers are trying to be ‘inclusive’ and they are WRONG in their teaching the kids. I would prefer them talk about christmas and leave hanukkah ALONE given that they know NOTHING about it. I’d rather teach my kids about my religion myself, rather than have to argue with the kids when they learn it incorrectly in school because someone who doesn’t really know it is teaching it. Better yet, don’t even mention hanukkah. People seem to think it’s an important holiday, but it’s not even a holiday, it’s just a festival. If you REALLY want to be inclusive, then teach about the important holidays, and leave this one alone…it’s really obnoxious to teach about a festival that is unimportant.
But I guess I digress.
Northside parent
October 25th, 2011
1:38 pm
@ Burbank Dawg (1:12 pm)
We have two teachers at my daughter’s school who are gay and we suspect the principal is a homosexual. Also, it was common knowledge that are previous deputy superintendent was an avowed lesbian.
Certainly, children would not be harmed by getting more balance from a curriculum that addresses this very prevalent matter.
William Casey
October 25th, 2011
1:40 pm
@SHAR: Your description of St. Pius X H.S. was exactly what I experienced there as a teacher/coach 1980-1984. Very good school then and now. Excellent academics taught in a Catholic environment. SPX isn’t stealing $ from anyone. PS: I’m neither Catholic nor religious.
leave HIM out of it!!
October 25th, 2011
2:11 pm
Religion has no place anything that is tax supported. If so, then include viewpoints from all sects, cults and whatever else. Do we really want that?
leave HER out of it!!
October 25th, 2011
2:18 pm
@ leave HIM out of it!!!
My God is a Woman!
Aquagirl
October 25th, 2011
2:22 pm
We have two teachers at my daughter’s school who are gay and we suspect the principal is a homosexual.
Oh noes! They’re on the slippery slope! Next your daughter will be attending classes taught by pedophiles, dogs, and pet rocks. PANIC!!!!
Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will crush the heads of the New World Order integrationist crowd and their devilish black minions
October 25th, 2011
2:24 pm
Choose this day which God is worthy to be praised by your children… If you and your children believe other Gods are the God of your salvation, then serve them, or study them.
But if the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, aka, the God of Israel is worthy of praise, then serve him.
Amen?
lovelyliz
October 25th, 2011
2:28 pm
Ther are so many Christian churches that I’m sure the parents could find, at no cost to the public, an adequate place for their children to study the Bible. The lack of access to Christianity and the Bible just isn’t a probelm around here.
Comprehension is another matter
Unfunded pension
October 25th, 2011
2:34 pm
Maureen, if you were honest, you would also admit the Christian parents who feel their faith is minimized or attacked my the public schools.
Hell in a handbasket
October 25th, 2011
2:34 pm
If they really wanted to improve math scores, they should consider bringing music education back. Studies have shown that students who study music tend to do better at math.
mystery poster
October 25th, 2011
2:37 pm
Didn’t I read somewhere that atheists actually know the bible better than any other “religious” group?
thomas
October 25th, 2011
2:39 pm
@liberalefty,
I have been also surprised to see so many youth baseball games happening on Sunday, even in the morning, in Georgia. Before moving here, I lived up north, and we rarely had a game on Sundays, and never Sunday am. Another contradiction in the south, I suppose.
Maureen Downey
October 25th, 2011
2:43 pm
@unfunded, Admit them where? I am not following your comment.
Maureen
Sandy
October 25th, 2011
2:43 pm
Religion is the root of all evil!
Numerology-based GA Code
October 25th, 2011
2:51 pm
LOL. This story serves to illustrate the sheer buffoonery that is the state of Georgia.
Let’s see, I wonder why the kids are doing poorly in math? Could it be because the adults in charge of developing curricula guidelines think that teaching the Bible in public schools has some intrinsic value?
I just hope the pastor from Florida who burned the Koran will be on the ballot for the GOP primary in Georgia. He’d probably get about 40% of the votes.
Dr. Monica Henson
October 25th, 2011
2:53 pm
@Truth in Moderation: my “Bible-thumper” comment was a tongue-in-cheek effort to get the jump on anyone who might accuse me of being an atheist.
Down South, we can direct insults at our own, but we don’t want anyone outside slinging any mud. For example, if you’re from the Great Smoky Mountains, as I am, you can generally get away with making references to hillbillies, but if you’re from Florida, that might not go over so well. Hence, “I’m a Presbyterian, etc., etc.”
Precious Blood
October 25th, 2011
2:53 pm
My god colors outside the lines and can count to potato on his truck tire.
The Return of Moses
October 25th, 2011
2:55 pm
Wow! It is truly amazing how Godlessness my truly be the downfall of American Society. Their was a day and time not long ago when people in America would not dare go without praying and turning to God and the Bible for wisdom and guidance. Maybe instead of “Separation of Church and State” we should ask the Morons in Washington for the Union of Church and State. I for one personally think if we returned to the Bible, Prayer, and God in our Lives, we would have less lawlessness, selfishness and down right lack of concern for anyone but ourselves in today’s society.
It would be nice to see people treat each other with kindness and compassion, instead of screwing each other over to get what I need! Maybe the change we need is bringing God back into The Schoolhouse. America was founded as a Christian Nation, in spite of all the revisionist historians who are seeking to write that out of our History.
May God Bless you all,
Direct Correlation
October 25th, 2011
2:56 pm
If you use the indicator “Dr.” in a blog post, odds are you are not really a doctor. You probably have a doctorate in education from Mercer or Kennesaw or some on-line school. It really just serves to discredit anything that you post when you use it. I’m just saying.
Maureen Downey
October 25th, 2011
3:02 pm
@direct, Not sure to whom your comment is directed, but I think anyone who has earned a doctorate deserves to use the title. A pal just finished hers at NYU after seven years of hard work, and I think she has earned the use of the title. If a doctorate deserves recognition any place, it ought to be on an education blog.
Maureen
I'm a Moron
October 25th, 2011
3:03 pm
I support Mitt Romney because he is a Moron, and so am I.
That being said, it is important for everyone to realize that “godlessness” has never really been an issue for anyone. Greed, gluttony, jealousy, etc., are all bad things that were mentioned in the Bible. But Jesus didn’t call them bad and by so doing make them bad. They were always harmful in either a direct or a karmic sort of way. America does not need anyone’s god. America needs competent leaders and intelligent responsible citizens. And I can promise you that being “godless” does not correlate to being competent or intelligent. To the contrary it usually indicates a weakness of the mind. Who wants a leader who has little enough confidence in their abilities that they want to put a phantom or religious leader in control of anything?
It really is insulting to true patriotic Americans to suggest that our nation has anything to fear from the god of trailer parks and suckers.
williebkind
October 25th, 2011
3:12 pm
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence:
Why not teach the Bible at school because they are not learning math in school, in the home, in Sunday School, in church services, in CCD classes. But private schools with morals seem to do better.
Dr. I think you have been educated beyond your intelligence.
Direct Correlation
October 25th, 2011
3:12 pm
Ok, fine. Go around calling yoursefl “Doctor Soandso.”
Then, when yo’ure at the mall, and someone goes into cardiac arrest, and they come screaming to you “doctor, doctor, come quickly” you can say “oh sorry, I have a PhD in Numerology from PoDunkBibleCollege.com. I’m not really a doctor.
I’m just saying.
williebkind
October 25th, 2011
3:14 pm
“A pal just finished hers at NYU after seven years of hard work, and I think she has earned the use of the title.”
Hard work? Is your friend a scientist? I do not believe it was hard work repeating the same subjects over and over and over.
williebkind
October 25th, 2011
3:15 pm
Yep, that paper with no skills. Yes I am excited for them.
Maureen Downey
October 25th, 2011
3:21 pm
@willie, Yes, she is, but a doctorate and the dissertation can take a long time if you are holding down a full-time job.
I don’t have a doctorate. The challenge isn’t repeating subjects but going deeper and breaking new ground.
Maureen
Direct Correlation
October 25th, 2011
3:32 pm
The point is if you’re the principal, have the teachers and students call you Dr. Whatever since you have your PhD in education. But check it at the door. It’s silly to call yourself doctor when you’re not at work if you’re not a medical doctor.
williebkind
October 25th, 2011
3:36 pm
Progressive Humanist
October 25th, 2011
12:17 pm
You are so funny!
williebkind
October 25th, 2011
3:37 pm
Maureen Downey:
I do like reading your articles!
Swede Atlanta
October 25th, 2011
4:37 pm
I have no problem with a Literature course that included passages from the Bible. The Bible contains wonderful poetry, allegory and mythology. I accept those as attributes of literature and can appreciate them as such without passing judgment on their truth (and I am a Christian).
What we really need is to focus students on the foundations of a core “liberal” education. They should leave high school with strong math, reading and writing skills. They should have a good base knowledge of U.S and world history, civics and science (including evolution) and highlights of U.S. and world literature. All of that should provide them with the skills necessary to think critically.
Electives should support those objectives be they music, art or sports.
But we place too much emphasis on sports and electives to the detriment of core learning.
So a course that integrates the Bible as part of a study in literary form and literature is fine with me as long as it is not presented as fact. That is the purview of Sunday school, home religious teaching and Church.
to @ leave HER from Good Mother
October 25th, 2011
5:28 pm
RE: “@ leave HIM out of it!!! My God is a Woman!”
Thanks for your comment. It made me smile.
catlady
October 25th, 2011
5:30 pm
Miss Manners says you don’t use the “doctor” socially, because you assume everyone has a doctorate! (And, thanks to Phoenix and Lincoln Memorial University, everyone will soon.)
When my younger daughter introduces me as “Dr. Catlady,” I quickly shake hands and say, “Hi, I’m Rin tin Tin” to put the other person at ease. If the other person wants to take their cue from my daughter (she is proud I have the degree), then they can call me Dr. If not, then Rin Tin Tin is fine.
My kids at school call me Miss Dr. Catlady. I love it.
(My name is not really Rin tin Tin.)
"Doctored"
October 25th, 2011
6:23 pm
@Willie, @ Maureen (3:21 pm)
Dr. Sham:
Kathy Augustine has a “doctorate” from Harvard. You might ask, how did such a miscreant reach such a level? Slime balls tend to stick together.
Beverly Hall sat on the board of directors for the Urban Superintendent’s program at Harvard. Hall was selected for this position based on her creation of the “Atlanta Miracle.” In essence, she was the figurehead that spearheaded Augustine’s acceptance.
So, it was more than a coincidence that Augustine gained admittance to the program. Her high school and undergraduate grades would never have qualified her for consideration. This online program is designed for inner city urban administrators who have been associated with improved student achievement. Most school districts pay the tuition for participants and virtually all finish with a “doctorate” degree – a cash cow for Harvard. Please believe me when I offer testimony that some of the graduates are unable to write a coherent sentence.
For most, the program requires a minimum amount of work. Often participants such as Augustine assign their dissertation topics as special projects to their research and evaluation departments, and it is they who do the bulk of the work (review of literature, project design & crunching of numbers).
Quite frankly, it is a ghetto degree!
The Inside Scoop
3rd floor,
130 Trinity Ave.
Jan
October 25th, 2011
7:38 pm
I am another huge St. Pius fan. My family has been a member of that community for 7 years. The school reinforced my daughter’s Catholic faith. It has never intruded on my or my son’s agnostic philosophy.
As for the suggestion that SPX “steals from devout Catholic families to fund the school”, that is absolutely ridiculous! Tuition is the same regardless of your religious persuasion. And SPX as a charter school… Again, ridiculous… The school would LOSE its ability to teach and live by the moral and ethical standards it holds dear. That is something SPX will never abandon.
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
8:11 pm
@atlmom
“I would prefer them talk about christmas and leave hanukkah ALONE given that they know NOTHING about it. I’d rather teach my kids about my religion myself, rather than have to argue with the kids when they learn it incorrectly in school because someone who doesn’t really know it is teaching it. Better yet, don’t even mention hanukkah. People seem to think it’s an important holiday, but it’s not even a holiday, it’s just a festival. If you REALLY want to be inclusive, then teach about the important holidays, and leave this one alone…it’s really obnoxious to teach about a festival that is unimportant.”
So I can assume you and Rahm disagree on this? I guess subtlety isn’t his strong suit.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/13/rahm-emanuel-lights-natio_n_390552.html
Eddie
October 25th, 2011
9:10 pm
“…the state just passed a law that, starting next year, public schools MUST teach kids about homosexuals’ contributions throughout history…”
They should devote a class to the GOP and kill two birds with one stone.
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
9:20 pm
@Eddie
But I thought everyone supports separation of church and state. Now you want to include Catholic priests?
Eddie
October 25th, 2011
9:25 pm
@Truth
That’s a whole other lesson, which could probably be combined with the “stranger danger” lecture. See how much time I just freed up for math?
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
9:53 pm
@I am a Moron
We’ll….I have to agree. Your detractors couldn’t have done a better job. Perhaps you should research parallel structures and prefixes.
“And I can promise you that being “godless” does not correlate to being competent or intelligent. To the contrary it usually indicates a weakness of the mind.”
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
9:55 pm
LOL!
Make that “Well”. No Southern accent intended.
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
10:04 pm
@Eddie
With your savvy problem solving, you should be Bev Hall’s replacement.
My ultimate solution is to obey the Constitution, shut down public schools, and let the separation of Church and State whiners finance their own “godless” indoctrination. The Constitution intended for there to be a free-market for religion. NO GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZING. If your religion or non-religion is successful, your children will be well fed, clothed, and you will be able to successfully home school or private school them. Unsuccessful religions or non-religions will be eliminated according to Darwinian theory. Your kids will be losers.
Incredulous
October 25th, 2011
10:07 pm
@truth in moderation. Since you’re seemingly fond of the KJV; How did Jesus answer Pilate? If you will answer the question, we can start a dialogue that fosters cooperation rather than veiled derision.
Jennifer
October 25th, 2011
10:19 pm
Good God. I was there in 2006. Funny how things work out.
joan
October 25th, 2011
10:21 pm
This class is an ELECTIVE, NOT a requirement. I consider myself agnostic but plan to take it for the genuine interest in education. I enjoy learning about every religion. I think the multitude of options given to Woodland students for electives is highly conductive to their success.
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
10:24 pm
Hmmmm. Is this a trick question? You’re pulling out the big vocabulary words; that makes me suspicious. I don’t “dialogue” or “cooperate” with strangers.
Incredulous
October 25th, 2011
10:35 pm
@truth in moderation. It is a trick question. You should be suspicious. You should also spend more time reading both the Bible and “Origin of Species” before alluding to either.
Incredulous
October 25th, 2011
10:38 pm
@truth in moderation. It is a trick question. You should be suspicious. You should also devote more effort to reading both the Bible and “Origin of Species” before alluding to either.
Incredulous
October 25th, 2011
10:39 pm
C’mon…did the filter eat my quotes?
Incredulous
October 25th, 2011
10:50 pm
@truth in moderation. It is a trick question and you should be suspicious. Take the bait.
Incredulous
October 25th, 2011
10:51 pm
You should be suspicious. It is a trick question. Take the bait.
Truth in Moderation
October 25th, 2011
10:57 pm
Don’t feel bad, Incredulous. They filter mine all the time. Guess today was my lucky day.
"Doctored"
October 26th, 2011
6:53 am
Again -
@Willie, @ Maureen (3:21 pm, yesterday)
Dr. Sham:
Kathy Augustine has a “doctorate” from Harvard. You might ask, how did such a miscreant reach such a level? Slime balls tend to stick together.
Beverly Hall sat on the board of directors for the Urban Superintendent’s program at Harvard. Hall was selected for this position based on her creation of the “Atlanta Miracle.” In essence, she was the figurehead that spearheaded Augustine’s acceptance.
So, it was more than a coincidence that Augustine gained admittance to the program. Her high school and undergraduate grades would never have qualified her for consideration. This online program is designed for inner city urban administrators who have been associated with improved student achievement. Most school districts pay the tuition for participants and virtually all finish with a “doctorate” degree – a cash cow for Harvard. Please believe me when I offer testimony that some of the graduates are unable to write a coherent sentence.
For most, the program requires a minimum amount of work. Often participants such as Augustine assign their dissertation topics as special projects to their research and evaluation departments, and it is they who do the bulk of the work (review of literature, project design & crunching of numbers).
Quite frankly, it is a ghetto degree!
The Inside Scoop
3rd floor,
130 Trinity Ave.
Peter
October 26th, 2011
7:57 am
Might as well teach about Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny…..all man made up ideas !
Middle School Teacher
October 26th, 2011
9:40 am
@Peter, seems like you need to do some research regarding Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Dr. Monica Henson
October 26th, 2011
1:22 pm
@Direct Correlation: How about posting under your real name? That adds the most credibility to any blog post, don’t you think?
Socially, I go by “Monica.” My teachers and staff, when I have worked in building & central administration, call me “Monica.” When I was a teacher, my kids called me “Mrs. Coach Smith” (t0 distinguish me from my first husband, Coach Smith, who worked at the same high school) and “Mrs. B” (my second married name was difficult to pronounce).
Professionally, I go by “Dr. Henson.” Six years of research & graduate study at a Carnegie Tier 1 research university earned me the right to do so.
. I am not a fan of the for-profit proprietary diploma mills, but I think it’s pretty doggone rude to downgrade excellent institutions like Mercer and Kennesaw. Dr. Betty Siegel, past president at KSU, came from being dean of the school education at Western Carolina University, my undergraduate alma mater, and built a terrific program at Kennesaw State. I myself turned down scholarships to UNC and UGA in order to attend WCU, where my family has gone for generations. I went on to earn my graduate degrees at Seton Hall University and Nova Southeastern University, both well-respected Carnegie Tier 1 research schools. I have watched programs in GA such as Southern Tech grow from a technical two-year college to a university over the years. Those who denigrate them just don’t have good manners and/or don’t know any better.
And I blog under my own name. I challenge all the blog posters here to do the same and earn maximum credibility.
GaNative
October 26th, 2011
10:01 pm
Good thing I’m not in the school system to teach a bible class, because if I was, once I got through shooting holes in all they’ve heard from the pulpit, they would never want to go back to a church.
Truth in Moderation
October 27th, 2011
12:02 am
The use of pseudonyms has a long history in America. The United States was in its third trimester when Hamilton, Madison, and Jay used strange monikers in the Federalist papers to bring about the final push that gave birth to our nation. Sworn to secrecy at the convention, they were not allowed to say anything. Their pamphlet pseudonyms gave them the cover to freely discuss the proposed Constitution with the population at large. Was this a bad thing? Was it cowardice? “Publius”, a.k.a. Alexander Hamilton, is still a popular digital blog mask today.
Perhaps the critical mass of support for the Constitution by the American colonists would not have been reached without the eloquent pen of “A Citizen of America”. Why would Noah Webster want to hide behind such a mundane moniker? It seems he had been vilified in the press of his day, and he believed the pseudonym would give his essay, “An Examination Into the Leading Principles of the New Federal Constitution Proposed by the Late Convention Held in Philadelphia” a fair hearing. His instincts were right. The essay was immediately picked up by THE NEW HAMPSHIRE GAZETTE, and later was mainstreamed to the American people directly. He scrupulously penned the praises of the proposed Constitution, and probably wielded more influence on the masses than the Federalist Papers. Should we be glad that there was a “Citizen of America”, or should we scold Noah for his cowardice?
Another Founding Father, Benjamin Franklin, was also fond of pseudonyms. As a young apprentice at his brother’s newspaper business, Franklin began writing columns under the pseudonym ‘Mrs. Silence Dogood’, a middle-aged widow. Her writings about the problems and social conditions of women in the Colonies garnered a large readership, but when brother James found out it was actually Ben writing her column, he was furious. Harassment and beatings by James forced Franklin to became a fugitive, and he ran away from his family in 1723. It would seem that Ben Franklin had a justifiable fear of writing in his own name. Was his pseudonym justified?
A common reason for the use of pseudonyms is fear of retaliation or consequences for unpopular speech or actions.. In the colonies, free speech, especially against the monarchy, was not welcomed. It was the leaderless, NAMELESS, uprising of the American patriots of 1774. These colonists staged a full-scale revolution even before Lexington and Concord. They were NAMELESS yet ubiquitous, aggressive yet without violent bloodshed. They overwhelmingly outnumbered the Tories, and the “99%” caused the “1%” to surrender without a fight. Collectively they were anonymous and beyond retaliation. The victorious colonists ruled rural Massachusetts until the counter-revolution of 1775. Once again, being anonymous proved to be beneficial to the founding of the U.S.A. Were the 99% wrong? With such glorious historical precedence, with so many brave men and women of America successfully using pseudonyms, I recommend that all Get-Schooled bloggers WEAR THEIR DIGITAL MASKS WITH PRIDE!
@ Truth in Moderation
October 27th, 2011
7:33 am
Excellent!
I am overly impressed with your presentation’s logical flow. Please continue to contribute.
UGAprof