We’re going to Disney and you’re not. The have and have nots in gifted education.
Should gifted students get a Disney trip? (Photo/Disney)
One of the most contentious issues in public education is “gifted” services and whether there is too little or too much attention placed on academically strong students.
When I visited the classroom of a Milken Award winner, the teacher noted that he had only 17 students in his “gifted” class while he had 27 in his “regular” class. In his affluent community, there was little difference in the abilities of most of the students in the two classes. In some cases, a point or two on some test kept the kids out of the gifted level.
Did it make sense, he asked me, to have such a difference in class size?
My own kids, by virtue of their brilliant father, score well on standardized tests and have been in “gifted” programs where they are pulled out for a class or two. (My system does not do the extensive pull-out that many others do.)
My own preference would be that schools would move kids, regardless of the gifted label, into the class that best suited their abilities. So, a strong sixth grade math student would move into a seventh grade class. A gifted artist in seventh grade would move to eighth grade art. A strong third grader in Spanish would take Spanish with fifth graders.
I also think that one factor overlooked in gifted evaluations is sheer determination. It is interesting for me to see that several of my older children’s pals in gifted classes either did not go to college or failed out. (And they are not backpacking through Europe or building orphanages in Guatemala. They are living at home and looking for work.) But they also have friends who never made the “gifted” cut who are in medical school or studying economics in London.
In fact, I have a friend whose son did not quality for gifted services until middle school, yet he graduated No. 1 in his very competitive high school class, attended an Ivy League college and was accepted by six medical schools. It was always clear to me that this child was extraordinarily bright and academically gifted in math and science, but somehow did not make the cut in elementary school.
I prefer that we get rid of gifted labels and instead make classes more fluid, moving students into higher grades when they show great aptitude. I also think that my two older kids would have done fine in a three-year high school framework. With the surge in online classes, more Georgia high schoolers could finish in three years. (That was one of the suggestions of the “Tough Times, Tough Choices” report on k-12 reform, and I think it was a great one.)
All of this is to lead into this good piece by a parent who has one child in gifted services and one who is not. She was confronted this year with a tough choice, whether to allow her son in the gifted program to go to Disney for a week-long trip:
In the middle of a worldwide economic crisis and a district-wide CRCT cheating scandal, Atlanta Public Schools decided that packing up “gifted-and-talented” students for five school days next month and heading to Florida to visit amusement parks was a bright idea.
One of those days will be spent in Disney’s Animal Kingdom and another at Epcot: $450 per person for students, paid by the parents. I was unable to uncover how many taxpayer dollars are kicked in, but at a minimum those teacher’s salaries for that time.
The school bus doors opened last week to squealing children. My two sons got off the bus, one with blue eyes and the other brown. My “gifted” son held a permission slip and my “not-gifted” held his head low from shame: “The Challenge kids get to go to Disney World and I don’t.”
As his mama, I heard: “I’m not worthy of going to the happiest place on earth with the smart kids.” Shame on the adults who came up with this idea. Openly inviting a select group and not others on a vacation encourages bullying and ostracizing. I chose not to allow my “gifted” son to attend the trip. Instead, I am putting the money towards Ipads to enrich learning for our entire family at home.
When are we going to stop teaching kids to feel inferior in American schools? If you think segregation no longer exists, try taking a closer look at our classrooms.
Remember Brown vs. Board of Education, which concluded, “To separate [some children] from others of similar age and qualifications … generates a feeling of inferiority as to their status in the community that may affect their hearts and minds in a way unlikely ever to be undone….”
As a result of my capable, “not-gifted” boy’s exclusion from the 60- some percent of his class who attend the full-day, pull-out, gifted-and-talented program, he has come undone. He cries when he used to not. He agonizes over homework, afraid of errors. He dislikes school. I will forever loathe those responsible for changing my boy.
I thought we knew better than to socially and economically sort children in 2011.
Are the teachers saying “cast members” from the dated Epcot theme park are more capable of teaching rigorous content to advanced students than they are?
Or is it that our exceptional students really aren’t that exceptional and don’t need extra challenges. Perhaps, it’s simply that we want to separate and give those already advantaged a special treat for being so above average and rich. Maybe they just don’t care or haven’t give it much thought.
Hopefully, those decision-makers allocating Georgia’s $400 million Race to the Top grant are thinking clearer. From the U.S. Department of Education: “Race to the Top winners will help trail blaze effective reforms and provide examples for states and local school districts throughout the country to follow as they too are hard at work on reforms that can transform our schools for decades to come.” I hope so.
Come on, Georgia. We can do better than a theme-park education, and all our children deserve more.
No child should be invisible, “gifted” or “not-gifted.”
Consider raising the bar for all students and treat everyone as a high achiever. Then, see what happens. Researchers at Duke University developed a truly bright idea aptly named, Project Bright Idea, that did just that with tangible results.
They performed a five-year study of 10,000 students in the early grades who were all taught in “gifted” classroom.
The result was that 20 percent or so of the students taught with techniques used in gifted classrooms were eventually identified as being academically and intellectually gifted by their districts.
Compare that to only 10 percent of a control group of similar students taught in regular classrooms meeting the gifted criteria. Seems worth looking into, but Tinkerbell ain’t gonna make it happen with her fairy dust.
A child’s elementary experience can and should be a happy one. The Disney slogan this year is: “Let the memories begin.” I pray my “un-gifted” child doesn’t remember these feelings of inferiority and deficiency he’s learning at school.
Most certainly a far cry from Walt Disney’s 1955 dedication speech proclaiming Disney as the place: “Youth may savor the challenge and promise of the future.”
Ah, there’s that word again, challenge. If only the APS Challenge program could be so inclusive and inspirational.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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198 comments Add your comment
duder
October 3rd, 2011
11:45 am
I was “gifted” at a public school through the 6th grade, then I went to one of “those” private schools in Atlanta and found out I was average. The truly “gifted” kids were in the top 5% of the graduating class at one of “those” schools, studying chaos theory at 16, speaking mulitple languages fluently, able to play multiple instruments flawlessly, and able to interpret complex literary themes that most adults cannot.
THOSE are the gifted kids.
Dr. John Trotter
October 3rd, 2011
11:45 am
“All day gifted classes” = segregation. A rose is a rose by any other name. The elitists of this State (those who can make things happen) don’t concern themselves with the total chaos of schools (especially the urban schools) because their little darlings are segregated in the gifted programs or are attending Westminster. Again, it’s all about the money. Oh, yes, they will suffer their children to attend classes with a very select few students who are born and raised on the other side of the track, so to speak. © JRAT, October 2, 2011.
Kawla
October 3rd, 2011
11:47 am
Just wanted to point out that Disney does have educational classes, so the trip above may not have been just a ‘pleasure’ trip. I have a friend whos kids just did several of Disneys classes, and she said it was really great for the kids to get a glimpse of the math and science that goes behind many of their rides, and she thought it was well worth the time.
Momof2boys
October 3rd, 2011
11:50 am
I have 2 grown sons. The oldest was in the gifted program. The younger always tested just a few points below the cut off. They are both good athletes, but the younger was always a little better than his brother, and chosen for all-stars. They are both successful today even though they had to deal with disappointment at a young age. My youngest son elected to take honors and AP level classes in high school and finished up with a slightly lower GPA than his brother.
As parents teaching our children to deal with differences is an important part of our responsibility. Having the boys strive to be as good as their sibling, made them both better students, athletes, and better men.
The Deal
October 3rd, 2011
11:52 am
I don’t see an all-day pullout model described anywhere here:
http://srt4.atlantapublicschools.us/Page/21415
Maureen Downey
October 3rd, 2011
11:52 am
@Dr. Trotter, I once had a rural school chief tell me that his talented and gifted program was a way to keep middle-class white families who would otherwise go to the one private school in that area. (It was one of those private schools that opened at the time of desegregation.)
He said that he gave an inordinate amount of time and staff to the gifted program, but that he had no choice as he needed the middle class support to ensure funding.
Maureen
Anonmom
October 3rd, 2011
11:54 am
I have 3 “gifted” children — 1 is in the 99th %; 1 is at the 96% and 1 is at the 93% — they have needed very different things. The 99th% didn’t begin to get what he needed until he hit a fine private school for high school — the public school don’t offer a “gifted” magnet in the Atlanta metro that is “too good to be ranked” per Newsweek like some other districts around the country do (Gwinett’s math & science magnet may get there at some point — I think Geogia’s best ranked high school almost breask 150 and doesn’t really cut it for gifted services and really doesn’t get there for lower grades). Thsi child was a pain in the behind if he wasn’t interested and engaged in what was happening in the classroom. He easily could have been skipped up but that wouldn’t have been fair to him socially. He needed to be engaged. He was fortunate to have had some adults at his elementary school (DCSS school) who took him under their wing and did “special projects” with him and assigned other kids to him who needed help (learning English, having blood sugar levels checked, learning math, working on readeing, etc). Every so often, he’d hit a teacher who was clueless and he’d be a disaster in class — bored to death. A kid like this really (desperately) needs gifted services. My 93% kid, he was fine in with everyone else — he lost it before he was “qualified” for gifted and 1/3 of the class went to Discovery and 1/3 went for IEP help for reading and math and he was left feeling stupid — he kept missing Disocvery qualificaition by 1 point — until the middle of 3rd grade… I can relate to that sensation… he’s always been at the bottom of the “top” of the class and has always felt “not quite good enough” even as he’s attending a top 100 college… He’s doing fine. But that doens’t mean that gifted services aren’t necessary — they are critical for those top students that absolutely need it …. they are the future of our nation and they absolutlely need to be engaged to their max before you lose them to boredom. I do agree with Maureen that there should be some way to focus some more on “natureal” ability/skills.
The Deal
October 3rd, 2011
11:58 am
I take it this mom won’t be sending her gifted son on the California or Italy trip, either. This presentation from presumably the school her children attends also says the gifted program is one full day per week.
http://srt3.atlantapublicschools.us/cms/lib/GA01000924/Centricity/Domain/1832/Back%20To%20School%20Night%20Presentation%202011-2012.pdf
Annie
October 3rd, 2011
12:04 pm
@Name Withheld hit it on the dot – “There is a difference between acceleration and enrichment gifted classes. Gifted kids can move rapidly through material. They can deal with harder material and learn it quickly and move on. However, those type of classes are not exercising the parts of their minds that make them unique. ”
I don’t have kids so I can only speak from personal experience. I went to Montessori elementary school, which was awesome. When I went to a public magnet middle school in 6th grade, I was put into 8th grade algebra. That was fine, but when I got a B+ in pre-calculus in 9th grade, my parents gave me the option of retaking GT pre-calc (less rote, more deep thought) or taking “regular” trigonometry the next year. They told me nobody at my new school (we were moving from TX to VA) would know I had already taken pre-calc. Haha. So I chose trigonometry, but I was the only 10th grader in a class of mostly 11th and 12th graders who had no love or interest in math. It was awful. I was bored. The material was more advanced than my last class, but the pace and the method of teaching was not suited to me at all. Being transferred to a more advanced class is not a valid solution.
Overall, I think a gifted program was right for me in grade school, but I think determination is what has gotten me to be pursuing a PhD at Georgia Tech. I think determined students can be successful, and that parents play a large role in their children’s enthusiasm for learning (or lack of enthusiasm). Ultimately the gifted option should be available, and the best way to choose who enters the program is a combination of test scores (for what they already know and how they think) and previous teacher recommendations (for enthusiasm and determination).
College Prof
October 3rd, 2011
12:07 pm
My ever so brilliant dad and, yes, he was a high school calculus teacher, put it this way: The A and B students will work for the C students one day. I think this puts it all in perspective for me when educating my own children. Let’s not be overzealous or OVERCOMPETITVE in educating our children! By the time they get to high school, NO ONE CARES!
Anne
October 3rd, 2011
12:12 pm
“Gifted” classrooms don’t just exist to take any child whose scores on a certain test are above a specified percentage. These classrooms for the gifted and talented were set up in the hope that kids who consistently performed way above grade level could learn at their own pace, BUT ALSO to help them become socially integrated to some degree with others. It is likely that many of the pupils enrolled in these classrooms could be designated as “Aspergers”, if tested for it.
Roswell Mom
October 3rd, 2011
12:13 pm
A simple solution is to offer the Disney trip to all kids & then sort them once there to tailor their learning experience according to their ability levels. I have 3 kids that are in the gifted program in Fulton County. Two of the three have been on a “gifted” 3-day field trip to Tybee Island to the GA Extension Center to learn about the coastal ecosystem. I have chaperoned both of those trips as a parent and can assure you that it was no “vacation” for anyone! While the kids were learning in a non-traditional environment, they were kept on task in learning labs from 8 AM until after supper all 3 days. The pace that was expected of them and the critical thinking skills required would have been beyond many students’ abilities. Could all students go on a trip like that? Yes, but it would require dividing them by ability for them to get the maximum benefit.
One major frustration I have as a parent of “gifted” kids (trust me, they’re not so “gifted” in other ways!) is that the focus for the last several years has been “No Child Left Behind”. Why can we not “Push a Child Ahead” if they’re ready for it? I’m not normally a helicopter pushy mom, however the recent education budget cuts are starting to effect my children’s education more and more. My 4th grader is in a class of 31 kids with a 22 year old teacher. Our school has opted not to break out by ability for core subjects like reading and math this year. I’m to the point of considering homeschooling her ahead on the side because she’s so BORED in class waiting for others to behave or catch up. It is unreasonable to expect someone with that little experience to give differentiated instruction to that many kids in one classroom 6 hrs/day. Mind you, the kids who require extra assistance have IEP’s & are pulled for special instruction–why can’t the same happen for my child who is not being remotely challenged?
As for Maureen’s dilemma: I’m sure you’re aware that each of your children are separate people. They will grow up to be independent, separate adults that will likely go to different colleges, have different careers, choose different spouses and paths in life. The choices you make for them need to be based on their individual strengths and personalities. My husband is the middle of 3 boys but is by far the one with the most achievements because his parents didn’t play the “fair” game with him and his siblings. He was the first in his family to go to college (Ivy!) and then on to graduate school. The other sons are good workers and more athletic; my husband is that guy who can’t walk and chew gum at the same time. His parents had an unique opportunity to allow him to attend gifted education outside of his (very) rural county to meet his needs when he was in high school. It was the best decision they could have made for him…individually! There is no resentment between him and his brothers about that decision, it was just the right thing for him.
Aquagirl
October 3rd, 2011
12:16 pm
That mom should teach her “un-gifted” child how to throw a football. He’ll get far more perks and rewards from our educational system than any child who uses their brains.
Ty
October 3rd, 2011
12:16 pm
Most legitimate research on “gifted” programs demonstrate that there is a great deal of variation and subjectivity in terms of qualifying as “gifted.” It seems odd that if “gifted” were an actual special need then the occurrence of “gifted-ness” wouldn’t so often be found among the rich and socially powerful, but would occur more naturally and reflect a more well-rounded snapshot of schools’ demographics. I would be very curious to see the district’s enrollment in gifted programs and see if much like everywhere else in the country, it is largely made up of wealthier students. I would also like to see what the district claims are the criteria for being admitted into gifted programs and how many students in the program actually meet the criteria and if it is standardized throughout the district. The editorial seems to be saying that Disney might not be the most rational choice and best use of resources for enriching any student and that point is well taken. But I would argue that the data shows nationally that the opportunity to be labeled gifted usually resides with assertive parents who know that the label brings with it academic and social opportunities that whether intended or not, make regular education classrooms and instruction, by comparison inferior , and yes, that makes students feel inferior. This has nothing to do with the capability of the students, because students consistently rise to the level expected of them and in proportion to the opportunities they are given. It is the grown-ups who create the system of inequity, not the students.
Dr. John Trotter
October 3rd, 2011
12:19 pm
@ Maureen: Wow. He actually admitted it. This is something.
I have learned a few things as a result of God’s grace allowing me to stay a few years on this Earth. Some of the things that I have learned are:
1. Humans are all really the same.
2. So-called leaders want to try to set up their group as “special” and “different.”
3. Therefore, “their” people should not be associating with the “other” people.
4. “We” are better than them, whether it is one race, religion, economic class, etc.
5. “Mammon” (old fashioned greed) still rules, whether it is on Wall Street, Church Street, or School Street.
A whole lot of this fighting over Charter Schools and Gift Programs are debutant issues. If you want your “Piedmont Driving Club”-type education, just pay the price, but pay your own money and not saddle the taxpayers with your elitist dreams or wannabe-blue-bloodism. I have always said that 90% of the children are capable of learning 90% of what teachers dish out daily. Some students truly have some severe mental and emotional issues which have to be addressed. But, often times, our educrats treat motivational issues like they are technical issues.
Now are their some students who are truly gifted? Certainly…like Alexander [last name withheld] of my old high school. I think he aced the SAT (or perhaps missed just one or two questions.) He was and is truly a “brainiac.” Just brilliant. Simply brilliant. There are kids like that today but not 60% of the school. Hardly. This is simply “gifted” as a front/excuse for segregation.
We’re going to Disney and you’re not. The have and have nots in gifted education. | International Education News | Renascence School International | Panama City | private preschool, elementary school, middle school
October 3rd, 2011
12:20 pm
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Really amazed
October 3rd, 2011
12:20 pm
60% gifted. Really?? Put them all in a truly challenging private school then see how truly gifted they are. They would all feel very average against each other. Sick of these parents and students thinking they are so above the rest of the pack in public schools. Public yes, challenging private NO!! They would all be treated the same. Anything a little above Georgia basic standards and your considered gifted. REALLY. Wake up parents! If you are really concerned about your gifted child learning something, it will take more than just one day a week in a pull out program doing a special project. This is purely for a label and bragging rights for parents. Plus child’s self esteem. Look at me, I am gifted. REALLY! Like I said, put that 1 out of 60% gifted child with truly gifted children they just might get a smack of reality thrown at them. I know we did!!!!!
Laurie
October 3rd, 2011
12:25 pm
Interesting idea about allowing children who excel in certain areas to take part in higher grade classes. I haven’t heard that one before, but have always supported montessori education for allowing students that kind of learning path. My child was also in the “gifted” program and now is in advanced classes in middle school. While I’m glad she’s been given additional opportunities, I don’t think our public school systems should be in the business of providing costly alternatives or perks to “gifted” children. I also don’t think we should be providing costly alternatives to special needs children. If parents feel their children require extra attention (for whatever reason), they need to send them to private schools, at their own expense.
Logic 05
October 3rd, 2011
12:25 pm
Maureen at 11:29
You said: “I prefer that we get rid of gifted labels and instead make classes more fluid, moving students into higher grades when they show great aptitude.”
Followed by: “Schools could use MAP testings, Iowa, class tests, EOCTs, CRCT, or whatever to identify kids, who would have to be breezing through the material.”
No matter what test you use…someone will be on the border.
Tonya C.
October 3rd, 2011
12:29 pm
Dr. Trotter:
I disagree. When I was in elementary school, I was bussed to a full day program. It was fantastic! My teachers were truly able to cater to the needs of the gifted kids there without the distraction of the masses. In middle school, I was primarily in self-contained gifted classes again. Great idea and motivation. In high school, I mainstreamed. Even my parents now say that was a bad idea and I either should have continued with the track or gone to private school.
There are options, but from what I have seen I am less than impressed with the so-called ‘gifted’ program in Georgia. But I am open to have my mind changed.
Hall Mom
October 3rd, 2011
12:29 pm
There are very few truly ‘gifted’ students, and the gifted programs provided by public schools won’t help them at all. There are specialized schools for true geniuses. The rest should be accelerated. Let’s not just ignore those pre-K and K students who can already read — move them up! It actually would save your school system money too.
KMHSmom
October 3rd, 2011
12:33 pm
A lot of the comments here are not properly distinguishing a gifted learner with a quick learner. A kid that seems to get math easily may be a quick learner. He should be allowed to move ahead to the next level as his skills develop, not based on his age or the school calendar. A gifted learner is a kid that gets the math quickly, then extrapolates it to his life (say computing sales tax in his head at age 7, or asking about trigonometry in order to calculate where his model rocket will fall). This is the type of learner that needs a special type of teaching style. These are also the types of kids that need to learn how to push themselves, because things come so easy. There are many gifted people that drop out of college, because that is the first time that life got hard for them and they do not know how to deal with it. These kids need a special type of life skill to reach their potential. See http://nagc.org/commonmyths.aspx for more myths about gifted learning.
Tonya C.
October 3rd, 2011
12:34 pm
Hall Mom:
I didn’t even touch that one. My kindergartner can read and do addition/subtraction. But GA law says she CAN NOT be moved up a grade, no matter the reason. So she pretty much gets homeschooled afterschool so she can stay ahead.
Principal Teacher
October 3rd, 2011
12:34 pm
Wasn’t that long ago that Gifted fell under the Special Education heading. It was more about the fact that certain kids learned differently in certain areas such as gifted in math etc.
Now it has become akin to Honors courses or advanced class. This really shouldn’t br the case. Another unfortunate side effect of too much testing.
A trip to Disney is not appropriate in either case.
CatsRule
October 3rd, 2011
12:35 pm
@ Hall Mom-
Move them up?? Are you kidding? The trend is to red shirt them so they will appear smarter/gifted by comparing them to younger students.
And I agree that out of all the kids labeled gifted, only a small percent are, but that small percent needs to be educated and challenged – not ignored because they are doing well.
Pedagogical
October 3rd, 2011
12:37 pm
I would be careful with the extrapolation Maureen. Some ‘gifted’ classes have just as many kids as ‘regular’ classes, particularly on FTE count day. Often Tues and Thurs. Also, most of the time, the difference is not one or two points (on IQ, achievement, etc. tests) – if it is one or two points, most parents can ask for a re-test from a school psychologist or a general re-test.
Motivation is one of the criteria for gifted selection, but may not manifest itself until middle/high school. In a good part of the bell curve, hard work can make a real difference, but let’s not fool ourselves that everyone can be a physicist or run a 100m in under 10 seconds.
I like the idea of acceleration, just not sure it’s practical from a logistics and scheduling standpoint (some classes accelerated and others not) … most public schools are like a large cafeteria – the food is Ok, but everyone eats within a reasonable time (vs. preparing unique meals for each person).
If you look at what is spent on special needs vs. gifted, the ratio is massive in terms of the former.
Cm
October 3rd, 2011
12:38 pm
Like Maureen is talking about I took part in going to another higher grade level due to being very far ahead in reading and language arts. This was in 1977 here in GA. Not a new idea.
Worst school experience I remember having unfortunatly.
Dr. John Trotter
October 3rd, 2011
12:39 pm
@ Tonya C.: You should have been in private school all along…and then you would have never had to deal with the “distraction of the masses.” Public education, by definition, is public (or, as you put it, dealing with the “masses”). But, I do understand the “distraction” issue, if you are talking about the outright “thuggerism” (I know that this is a word that is not recognized) that is allowed in the halls and within the classrooms today because of the scarcity of backbones among the so-called school leaders and the clueless school board members. The student-thugs have taken over some schools.
thomas
October 3rd, 2011
12:40 pm
@ Maureen,
This is a bit off topic, but…
You wrote, “My own kids, by virtue of their brilliant father, score well on standardized tests…” I think you were just being modest, but I wish you didn’t attribute the success/failure of your own children to yourself or to your husband. I think we put way too much emphasis on “gene” instead of efforts. I suppose when someone who is successful does this, it may be considered as being modest, but too many people would use it as an excuse for failure. “You did bad on a math exam, well, that’s ok because I was never good at math myself.” Instead, we should be asking – “were you well prepared for the test?” “what did (or din’t) you do to help yourself do better?” “what would you do differently before the next one?” etc.
As for the “gifted” education, I think the concept itself is not a bad one. But, just as is the case with the special education, the process of identifying students is a huge problem. As others have said, 60% gifted is nonsense. A true gifted program should involve only a few % of the student bodies – those are the truly gifted ones. Others are all different shades of “average” – and there is nothing wrong with being average.
Principal Teacher
October 3rd, 2011
12:41 pm
@Tonya
No such law exists. It may be an individual district policy but not a law. I have done it for students before.
Greg
October 3rd, 2011
12:42 pm
Jesus, this thread saddens me. The blog is useful, but I’ve got to stop reading the comments sections.
redeagle4
October 3rd, 2011
12:43 pm
Biggest waste in public eduaction!
Tonya C.
October 3rd, 2011
12:43 pm
CatsRule:
I had never heard of that until I came to Georgia. The hell? Kids up throughout the country start school at five, and many of them don’t have a Sept. 6th cut-off.
thomas
October 3rd, 2011
12:44 pm
One more thing.
The notion of “move on when you are ready” sounds nice as a concept, but it is a huge headache administratively. How do you actually put a school system on such a system? How do you organize classrooms? Teachers? How often do you move students? You can’t just move a 6th graders who are doing VERY well in a 6th grade math class to a 7th grade math class. That will be a recipe for a disaster. Schools cannot be individualized. One size fits all may not be the best model, but one school for each child is not, either. Schooling must be done, by definition, through a mass education system. That means we have to deal with a group of children at a time. Any effort to individualize education will not succeed in schools simply because schools are not meant for such a system.
V for Vendetta
October 3rd, 2011
12:44 pm
Principal Teacher,
Gifted education is still considered Special Ed. You should know that.
Principal Teacher
October 3rd, 2011
12:46 pm
My point V.
Producer
October 3rd, 2011
12:47 pm
According to my teacher friends, the EMR or special needs kids receive the vast amount of school resources and that is complete bullsqueeze!! The attention needs to be paid to the gifted kids and those who may become gifted kids. Period. We can be all politically correct and get all teary eyed about not wanting to leave the special needs kids behind. They offer us very little as far as contributing to a better society in the future. As the Frank Perdue used to say, ‘parts is parts’. Well, ‘facts is facts.’
Principal Teacher
October 3rd, 2011
12:47 pm
Try convincing a gifted mom of that.
Tonya C.
October 3rd, 2011
12:48 pm
Principal Teacher:
Sorry! You are correct. It is Gwinnett County Public Schools policy. Which screws me either way. But thank you for clarifying my misinformation. This is what was sent to me by my daughter’s AP:
G. Due to the required age entry at the kindergarten level,
students shall not be allowed to skip kindergarten to first
grade (Georgia Department of Education Rule 160-5-1-.28).
Pluto
October 3rd, 2011
12:48 pm
Sometimes I think the folks in Forsyth county suffer from The Lake Woebegone syndrome; they are all strong, good looking and above average. I have sooo many “gifted” students on my on-level high school roles that do not exhibit any “gifted” traits. At one time, someone designated them as gifted but now not so much. Can you strip the gifted label off of them once you pin it on?
Principal Teacher
October 3rd, 2011
12:49 pm
Ah, Gwinnett – an educational corporation all to itself.
MiltonMan
October 3rd, 2011
12:51 pm
Good God with all the whiners. Society as a whole rewards those that are smarter and brighter – better education, better jobs, etc. Both of my childrten have been/currently are in Advanced Placement. One graduated high school with almost a years worth of college credit & will be starting dental school next year.
Also, most colleges have Honors programs & the honors students get better dorm selection & better choices of class offerings.
Maureen, you would be better off by selecting a group of advanced placement students vs. group of on-level students & comparing that sub-set as opposed to saying that “1″ advanced placement child of a friend flunked out while the on-level sibling went to medical school. You will find your example as the exception more than the general rule.
Principal Teacher
October 3rd, 2011
12:53 pm
Yes Pluto, all striving to be in a group like the entitled special ed kids. Funny isn’t it. They fuss and fuss about the ” entitled” all while letting us know how entitled they and their kids are.
I think there may be a word for that.
Jimmy62
October 3rd, 2011
12:54 pm
I’m not sure what the answer is with really smart kids. I do know when I was a kid in Gwinnett County, they seemed to think I was dumb and kept me from doing the same level math and reading as the other kids in my grade. But then we moved counties to Fulton, I got retested, and was bumped up a couple of grade levels in every subject and put in the gifted program. So it seems you get shoehorned when you start somewhere, and then it’s almost impossible to get teachers and administrators to give you a new evaluation, unless you change systems.
Principal Teacher
October 3rd, 2011
12:55 pm
So Producer you are saying that the smarter kids are entitled.
Got ya.
gtalum06
October 3rd, 2011
12:57 pm
The gifted program is a wonderful thing, when used properly. If a school is 60% gifted, there is not a proper gifted program in place. The program exists as a facilitator for students with a higher-than-average IQ, as determined by a series of tests…so yes, students who score high on standardized tests are the ones who enter into the gifted program. It’s the best way of testing for IQ in a school setting.
I was one of those students. I had zero self-esteem, but I was smart. I scored perfectly on every gifted exam I took (as well as other placement exams)…I also scored perfectly when tested for ADD. Gifted kids often have learning disabilities, which is why many who score so high on the tests don’t always do well in regular classrooms. Smaller gifted classes make it possible for smart kids with learning disabilities reach their potential outside regular classroom distractions (and boredom).
gtalum06
October 3rd, 2011
12:59 pm
I forgot to mention that despite scoring perfectly on gifted exams and standardized tests, I had fairly poor classroom performance (due to the ADD issues)…that was why the separate gifted class for part of the day was such a positive thing for students like me. Students who sometimes appear to not care or to be dumb are often bored with the curriculum or dealing w/ learning disabilities.
MiltonMan
October 3rd, 2011
1:00 pm
Amazing to see the teachers here blasting parents & their kids for striving to be in the TAG programs. My children deserved this because they busted their rear-ends by studying/doing homework 2-4 hours a day and not watching American Idol, Jersey Shore, playing X-BOX/PS3, etc., etc.
If you teachers do not like kids being in TAG or believe you have some kids that should not be in your class – grow a spine & take it up with the school admin
Fred
October 3rd, 2011
1:02 pm
Dr. John Trotter
October 3rd, 2011
11:45 am
“All day gifted classes” = segregation. A rose is a rose by any other name. The elitists of this State (those who can make things happen) don’t concern themselves with the total chaos of schools (especially the urban schools) because their little darlings are segregated in the gifted programs or are attending Westminster. Again, it’s all about the money. Oh, yes, they will suffer their children to attend classes with a very select few students who are born and raised on the other side of the track, so to speak. © JRAT, October 2, 2011.
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Actually it’s Woodward in our case Dr. John. But you tell me. Am I SUPPOSED to doom her to the cesspit that is DeKalb County Schools, where race is king, so she can be uneducated or do I continue to do without and send her to a school where she can actually be educated? A place where race ISN’T an issue? A place where learning isn’t scorned by the students? A place where getting educated is more important than getting laid?
By that line of reasoning, should I poke my eyes out so I don’t have an “unfair advantage” over the blind? I reject your notion there sport. It doesn’t wash. Quit holding the smart kids down to the level of the lowest of the low. Nurture them instead and let them bloom.
John
October 3rd, 2011
1:02 pm
That child’s self esteem issues are totally the fault of the parenr. We had three children in school. Two were in the gifted program and made the trips to Skidaway Island, Jekyll Island, etc. One was not and didn’t make those trips. However, he made the school safety patrol at his elementary school and earned the trip that group made to Washington, D.C. Tgey also made it through college and are successfully employed and between the ages of 25 and 30. This mother needs to quit her whining and we need to quit penalizing successful students and taking away their privileges because it violates some people’s warped sense of “fairness.” This mother has more problems than either of her children.