AJC series on teacher quality: Blame for low student achievement misplaced.
Is there too much focus on the role of teachers in student achievement? (AJC file/John Overmyer)
I have been running summaries here of the first two parts of a comprehensive AJC series on teacher quality, the most recent appearing this morning. (You can see the first summary here.)
There’s been a lot of reaction to the AJC series, which examines the state’s efforts to bolster teacher quality.
Retired educator and school head Dennis Brown of Villa Rica sent me a short response this morning that I asked him to expand. He felt that the blame for low student achievement should not fall on teachers and schools, but on the home and the culture.
Here is Brown’s expanded retort to the AJC series:
Once again in the Sunday, Sept. 18, issue of the AJC, a front-page inflammatory headline (”Georgia fails at improving teachers”) lays blame on the system for the purported failure of our public schools. And once again, falling and/or non-improving standardized test scores are at the root of all the rhetoric and opinions leading to that conclusion.
First, let me say from the onset that I’m not one willing to say test scores determine, nor should determine the success of our educational system. But notwithstanding that assertion, when will we wake up?
If our next generation is to be well served by graduates prepared to contribute to a constantly improving society (rather than simply producing increased test scores), when will we stop looking at the vehicle to solve the problem, rather than the root of the cause — the changing needs of our young people coming into the system today.
More than 30 years in pre-k-12th grade education and now retired, thank goodness, has shown me one thing — home environment and involved, supportive parents do more to determine outcomes of students than all the teachers, text materials, changing curricula, technology, and other in-school factors added together.
We hear all the time of the ineffective outcomes that have been observed from the 10 years of fluctuating and knee-jerk reactions resulting from the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. Likewise, the tons of money squandered as a result of the prominent 1983 report on American education titled “A Nation at Risk,” published by the National Commission on Excellence in Education. But again, both conclusions based on a statistical analysis of test scores.
Hey, if I had all the answers, I’d be a wealthy man. But I don’t. One thing I do know for sure. We need to attack the root of the problem, not the symptoms. Until parents and society stop laying the blame at our school systems and assume responsibility for the mores and daily activity of our young people, all the teachers, teachers of teachers, politicians, and money in the world will not help improve test scores.
And if test scores are the only measure we have to evaluate our school systems of today, then we have our priorities screwed up and perhaps should be the first step of true reform addressed.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
166 comments Add your comment
To: Dr. John Trotter
September 19th, 2011
6:55 pm
Thank you:
I agree 100% with Dr. Trotter concerning the persistence of teaching /learning by rote memorization. In fact, many schools are relying on this method more so than they were a half century ago due to the ogre of testing. Many of the school reform models, especially those foisted on underserved communities are centered around blind memorizing to show end of the year (short-term ) results. .
The bizarre focus on accountability without addressing the concomitant issues surrounding underachievement translates into child abuse. We are teaching ignorance instead of eradicating it. We are asking educators to cheat either directly or by “teaching to the test.” No test is valid indicator, if you teach to what will be tested. Such an act negates the intent of testing.
Why are so many of our schools mired in this anachronistic mindset forced on us by self-serving policy makers and politicians? Why do we continue to mindlessly heed to their craziness when our schools are precipitously slipping into an abyss? It is common knowledge that the quality of American education is far from being in the forefront of developed nations. So why do we continue to do what does not work?
Fifty years ago we thought American cars were preeminent; we were delusional not to change our ideas and methods of production. Hence, the R&D and manufacturing of automobiles has been largely outsourced. We are on a doomed course if we continue to heed our anemic thinking around what makes an citizenry educated.
Common sense must prevail and not the rhetoric of populist politicians and their lapdog policy makers.
Missing the Brutes
September 19th, 2011
7:02 pm
Bring back Fat Bev and Cat Man Augustine, they’ll work em over until we get some dramatic results and a miracle too!!!
Ralph the ex-teacher
September 19th, 2011
7:11 pm
@ John Trotter I have been chastised lol about having my students utilize rote memorization. My former assistant principal stated that every week she would memorize the weekly spelling words and that method should not be used today. She said that I should introduce the standard and todays concept (very briefly) and then incorporate hands on learning and also technology.In some school systems you have a dictator(Asst Prin) that tells you to teach this way or you will get an unsatisfactory evaluation. Until these educated rats (educrats) understand that scripted teaching is not going to increase student learning, the students will suffer. This article focuses on teachers, when it really should focus on the students. I wholeheartedly agree that You cannot have good learning conditions, until you have good teaching conditions. Superintendents like Dr. Mathews need to dig deep and find their backbone. Refuse to allow principals and APs to use good quality people as their scapegoats for their inability to turn around underperforming schools.
Lisa
September 19th, 2011
7:18 pm
I bet many of you people have never once stepped into a classroom and attempted to teach a lesson, brought snack for kids who don’t have one, or told them you love them when a relative passes away. I bet you could not last a month or a week in my shoes. I bet you get an hour for lunch not 30 mins. 20 after you drop the students off for lunch. I bet you don’t create lesson plans, assessments, grade papers, work with students, conference with students weekly. I’m tired of people putting what Iove to do down. Hold parents accountable! When their child is not on grade level and I show evidence that the student is not progressing, the parent demands their child go to the next grade level. Don’t you dare blame me when I have done my part. Don’t blame me when a parent doesn’t show up for a conference, won’t return phone calls, or notes.
FYI
September 19th, 2011
7:22 pm
@ Question for Good Mother, 6:07. And GM not only has this job but, as she blogged on Sept. 8, 2011:
” I work full time and yet I am a room mother and I volunteer regularly at my child’s school. I fund raise. I give donations of cash and gift cards and other items to the teachers. I send my well-rested, well-fed, respectfully dressed, well-disciplined child to school on time every day with home work completed and neatly turned in. I provide snacks for the whole class often.”
As many have noted, GM seems to be a troll who requires constant attention, that his/her nasty, often cruel remarks to teachers guarantee. Tonya C., she has been complaining about her child’s supposed illiterate teacher since before school began this August. Many have suggested practical steps she could take to remedy this situation. But no, her whining continues.
Ron
September 19th, 2011
7:34 pm
Same stuff different day. To put this in another perspective, is it the dentist’s fault if person has cavities? Is it to the dentist’s credit if the person has no cavities? The main thing that seems to be missed is something that society has chosen to forget and it is called personal responsibility. There are approximately 8,760 hours in a year. In a normal situation the teacher has an input into a student’s life 180 hours. That means that the teacher does not have influence into a student’s learning/development approximately 8,580 hours in the same year. Does the teacher pit the student in front of the TV and let the TV raise the child (reference the spongebob study for attention)? Does the teacher buy the student a cell phone and tell them in effect that the rules do not pertain to them and they are to have that cell phone on their person at all times (even though against school rules)? Is it the parent or teacher’s job to provide school supplies? Is it the parent that brings the student late to school virtually every day or might that be the parent? I wonder who berates the other party in the child’s hearing range more often, parents or teachers? We as a society have regressed to popularism when it comes to things like “it takes a whole community to raise a child.” If you want me to raise your child then give me the right to do it. Not saying that teachers are always right. But, it all comes down to population numbers. Are there more teachers that vote or more parents? If more parents than as a politician I cannot say anything negative about parents but have to blame someone for the child’s flaws. Blame the minority and remove any guilt from the majority and I can get elected. This might be why education is in a tailspin and will never get fixed until everyone will stop being self indulgent and accept reality.
DrJimmy
September 19th, 2011
7:45 pm
Well, I’m from the country, and I’m smart enough to know I don’t have all the answers. I do know a few things though, one of them is that education is a discipline, not a product. It requires commitment and effort on the part of the learner as well as the instructor. Education is much like a three leg milking stool, it requires input from the student, teacher, and parent. If one of these legs is missing, the stool can balance on two legs, but if two legs are missing, the stool won’t balance for long.
The current popular and political answer is to blame the teacher. One third of the equation cannot account for all the achievement. The other two thirds must contribute their share.
Can teachers improve? Sure they can. However, if society really wants teachers to improve school results, they cannot simply hold teachers accountable for results. They must provide the teachers with the authority to do what is necessary. PUSH students, CORRECT students, DISCIPLINE students.
I’ve worked in schools all across the state of GA. I can tell you all this. At most schools, achievement would rise if the educators in the school were allowed to do what they know they need to do. Unfortunately, it’s groups of parents and political groups that prevent this.
So, parents, if you want improvement, do your part. You can control your input and most of the time your child’s input. That’s two legs of the stool – minimum. Most of the time you’ll have a good teacher holding up his or her leg of the stool.
OH, and to all of you who think YOUR child is the TEACHER’s responsibility. YOU”RE WRONG. YOUR child is YOUR responsibility. As a teacher, the CLASS is MY responsibility. I must do what’s best for the entire class. YOU must do what’s best for your individual child.
hmmm
September 19th, 2011
7:48 pm
This is not so much a question of parent bashing, but the lack of emphasis on academics in our culture.
No one wants to really study and work hard in school for the sake of academics. The emphasis is on sports or grades for the sake of scholarship, not the true learning of the material.
The decay of the family unit has not helped anything. Very few families look like Ozzie and Harriet, gathered around the table to discuss the day’s events of school and work. Parents are wrapped up in their jobs and providing for their kids and are too busy to really see to their child’s educational needs.
So, they depend solely on the teachers for too much. There are too many bad teachers that have been around for too long, but no one has the real guts to face it. Twenty years ago, I was a teacher in a small system where we had a terrible teacher in my department. The administration should have let him go then, but alas, I see that he is still “teaching” and getting away with his same ways.
Then, add No Child and that created more mess and now comes Race to the Top…..
And, kids still do not know squat….. mutliplication tables, basic rules of grammar and spelling, where the US is on a map or Georgia for that matter, how to tell time, how to read Roman numerals, how to look up words in a dictionary, how to write a complete sentence, and on and on .
Somehow, our kids are supposed to keep up in the world and I do not know how they will.
HS Math Teacher
September 19th, 2011
7:55 pm
A higher percentage of students are now graduating high school. More and more students are applying to colleges, and most are being admitted. SAT scores among entering freshmen are continually increasing. More & more teachers are getting advanced degrees. More Blacks & Hispanics are making gains in education on standardized tests.
Teacher quality is good, and don’t let any fizzle-fart try to rain a yellow shower on you. I’ve never come on here and said anything negative about parents. I will say this, though: Parents are supposed to mold & support a kid to be “teachable”. If they don’t, there’s no way Teachers can both mold & support, and teach a year’s worth of standards. Like someone on another topic mentioned a few days ago, a great deal of HS Teachers in GA have the unenviable task accepting the mass exodus of kids from middle school, whether they’re on grade level or not, and trying to prepare them for post-secondary education, or on the lower end, trying to keep the kids in “the ball game”, to stay out of trouble, and encourage them to stay in school & graduate.
Benny
September 19th, 2011
8:03 pm
Education Insider. Thank you for saying that education is a business. Stupid me. I thought the goal of a business was to provide a service to make money. This may have been a slip of the tougue but to take a step farther, a child is not a widget.
Two years ago I had a black teacher on my hallway tell me that many black families will not buy books for their children. Being the curious sort I asked all my students how many books they had in their house. Low achievers had very few to none. High achievers had many. Trips to the library. Low had none and high had many. Teachers cannot do it on their own. But, definitely not a business. If it were we could fird the students that did not do homework, study or follow directions. Wow, maybe it should be a business.
3yrteacher
September 19th, 2011
8:06 pm
There are numerous factors impacting the testing outcomes of our students. It is not solely the parents or the teachers fault, but a combination of both. I believe there are some bad teachers out there as there are in any occupation. However, for every bad teacher there are hundreds of wonderful teachers who go above and beyond to help their students succeed. Same goes for parents. There are some parents who neglect their child and their education…not on purpose, but simply because they must support their family and work, get food on the table, and take care of their other needs as well.
Teachers work overtime, go home and think about their students, and think about the best ways to meet their needs. Parents also work just as hard with their children to help them succeed. They help them with homework and read to them daily.
There are just some students who no matter how much you work with them, no matter how supportive their parents are…they just are not going to perform well on a standardized test. There are also those who come into school the day of the test with a situation that totally destroyed their morning and therefore they perform poorly.
Point is…it is NEVER 100% blame on any one individual. It is not the student’s fault, or the teacher’s fault, or the parent’s fault, or the lawmaker’s fault. It is a combination of all of us. Schools are failing their students. We now place such high expectations on our students that not all can achieve. We put so much pressure on teachers that they stress out and the higher students get neglected. We put so much pressure on parents who are struggling in today’s society to simply provide for their family, but we also expect them to complete homework with their child (often too much homework b/c we have so much to cover).
I truly believe EVERY child can learn. The student who is home alone all night because Mom is alone and has to work to put food on the table. The student who has an unidentified or identified learning disability. The student who goes into first grade unable to write their name or identify a single letter. The student who comes into class speaking no English. ALL these students can learn the material. It may take the students receiving accommodations, being retained, or tutored. It may take interventions the parent may not like, but ALL students can learn!!! I wish parents realized, teachers do their best. They often times have numerous children who have learning disabilities, students who are gifted, students who are behavior issues all in the same room and they have to meet the needs of all while meeting the requirements set by the state. We do our best and take our work home. We go home and worry about your child and their success. We want them to achieve. Teachers also need to stop blaming all parents. It is important for schools and parents to work together to help our children succeed and make a difference.
I will end this with a favorite quote of mine…The mind is a fire to be kindled, not a vessel to be filled. We must spark an interests in our students and help them develop a LOVE for learning.
TW
September 19th, 2011
8:16 pm
Poverty rate in this country is 25%.
The high school graduation rate is 75%.
But noooooooobody say nuthin’ ‘buot this.
Cheap way out is to blame teachers – no cost.
Feed the poor a breakfast at school, bulk out the after-school programs to induce on-sight tutoring and a decent dinner and you will see real results – but that costs money.
We American might talk a neat ‘Christian’ game, but the sad FACT is we value that 3rd flat-screen TV more than we do the welfare of another’s child.
”When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.”
D Stone
September 19th, 2011
8:20 pm
Bad principals are more likely to blame.
RVS
September 19th, 2011
8:25 pm
To be honest…it’s a combination of all the above. Some parents may not be doing their part and some teachers may not be doing their part. Yes, having great involved parents would be wonderful, but teachers what will you do if the parents are not involved…huh? Will you just blame the culture and continue to teach the same way you did twenty years ago? Yes, teacher play a major role in what is happening in the schools. Perk up a class ya’ll. Stop teaching like you were taught 100 years ago. Respond to this section and I will give you some teaching tips. Let’s teach our children…okay.
Note
September 19th, 2011
8:48 pm
It’s my job to teach. It’s the student’s job to listen and learn. It’s the parent’s job to ensure that we both do our jobs.
Teacher Reader
September 19th, 2011
8:53 pm
To John Trotter, To: John Trotter, and Ralph the ex-teacher, you are all correct. Until teachers and parents realize that teaching is not going on in 99% of our public schools, the education system will not turn around.
To Benny: Education is a business. Teachers aren’t making the money, but the companies that supply the out of a box guided teaching curriculum, the text books, the tutoring (paid for by NCLB $), and other companies that provide services and products to schools are making money hand over fist. These companies are the ones that wrote the national standards that will be paraded around soon. They had a great deal to gain by taking part in writing the standards as districts will be spending big bucks to comply with these new road blocks to learning.
Lisa: Buying snacks, writing lessons does not make one a good teacher or show that they care. Most teachers do that, in fact in the schools that I worked in the teachers that I would not want a child of mine to be in did this the most. Teachers need to remember that they can’t change what happens at a child’s home, but they can spark an interest in helping the child have a different life than their current one. Listen to Adam Carolla talk about his up bringing, how his mom thought that staying on welfare and collecting the checks was work, and he wanted something different for himself. That spark of desire is what a good teacher imparts in a child, not snacks, fancy lessons, and such.
Elizabeth
September 19th, 2011
9:09 pm
I am willing to TEACH the students who come to me regardless of where they are. What I am NOT willing or able to do is to do the jobs that others cannot or will not do.I can’t baby your child because I have 32 others to teach. I can’t enable your child by passing him when he does not finish or even begin his work.I can’t provide basic materials because my own salary has been whittled away by furlough days and inflation. I can’t help your child if I have to spend my time disciplining those who receive no discipline outside of my classroom ( this is not just parents, but other teachers, administrators, and county personnel). IF no one causes a problem in my classroom I have approximately 3 minutes to give your child individual attention in class. Most days I am too busy controlling the disruptors to give a child even that. I can’t discipline your child effectivedly when he needs it if you and the administration refuse to back me up. Since I am required to notify you every time I give silent lunch, it is easier not to give it than to spend my personal time calling parents about every little thing that happens each day..I can’t plan effective lessons if I am in meetings or doing ball game or bus duty or hall duty every day and night, or filling out endless paperwork that is meaningless and filed in triplicate. I have no lunch break– I am required to eat with the kids which means I don’t eat because I am too busy supervising .Lack of food makes me grumpier and less effective in the afternoons because often I am weak and shaky from lack of food, or desperate to go to the bathroom but do not have a break .Never mind that I am not allowed to refuse a kid who needs to go.
I want to teach. I love to teach. But there is no support and too much to do that does not relate to teaching. Yet all I get is criticism. Why should I stay? Why should I try when no one else does?
I have asking myself this for several years now. I don’t have an answer except that there are still a few shining moments that make it worthwhile. I have 3 years before I retire. Don’t tell me someone over 50 can find a new career. They can’t. So I continue to do my best. But I am tired of always being the scapegoat for the woes in education.I am tired of all the conflict. I am tired.
mountain man
September 19th, 2011
9:19 pm
Elizabeth – you are ” not allowed to refuse a kid who needs to go”. That is odd. My son had a teacher in Cherokee County who did not allow him to go to the bathroom (from a “portable classroom” with no bathroom) and he ended up going in his pants. I tried to talk to the teacher about this, but she refused to discuss it and the principal refuses to intervene. That was when I took my son out to ne home schooled, then went to private school.
mountain man
September 19th, 2011
9:32 pm
Not that anyone will listen to any of my ideas, but here they are:
Turn all teachers into full-time (12-month) employees and pay them more, (I have already lost half of you because of the tax increases this would require).
Test each child for the MINIMUM requirements after each grade. Those who do not pass have a chance for special SUMMER SCHOOL classes (small teacher-student ratios and individualized attention). Students test again in deficient subjects at the end of the summer and if they still do not pass, THEY ARE HELD BACK TO THEIR ORIGINAL GRADE. This continues even if there are 18-year olds in the first grade.
Any student who accumulates 5 days absent results in a fine to the parents of $500, 10 days earns $1000 fine, etc. Failure to pay fine results in one day in jail for each $100 owed.
Any teacher may send a student to the principal for discipline. These students may not be returned to the classroom until their infraction is severely dealt with. On second time, the student must be transferred to alternative classroom.
Teacher credentialling can be upgraded to require that the teacher be proficient in all subjects taught (MUST be able to speak, read and write English well). Schools would not be allowed to force math teachers to teach English, for example, they should teach their specialty (upper grades).
Stop blaming teachers for the sins of their students, but require them to be proficient. How Atlanta will attract proficient teachers to teach in their inner city schools is something I do not know.
Anonmom
September 19th, 2011
9:55 pm
TW: I really don’t buy the 25% poverty rate… to me, and this is not politically correct, but was, summed up very nicely by “Tara on Ponce” – poverty is living in a dirt hovel in Africa, Asia or Peru (possibly those in Appalachia or on some Indian reservations qualify) — poverty is those who are “skin and bones” — you can see their rib cages and flies are circling around them because they don’t have 4 walls to live in and roof over their heads; they don’t know a thing about indoor plumbing and more than likely they don’t have shoes on their feet (unless they were donated by some really nice American). Our “poverty” in America is defined for political purposes so we can engage in “wealth redistribution” and play the “blame game.” Most of those, particularly in Atlanta, who “live in poverty” are not so thin that you can see their rib cages; they do not walk to get from place to place; they have huge flat screen televisions; they spend a lot of money on game systems and play stations and games for those items and they sped a lot of money on grooming. It’s a priority issue and used to asses guilt. If folks were really living in poverty, as pointed out by Tara on Ponce, I truly believe, the children would actually see the benefit of gaining an education, they would be encouraged by their parents to apply themselves in school. Education is actually the “great equalizer” if the government and parents would encourage the children to actually learn and achieve (rather than operate from an ‘entitlement’ perspective). There is much wrong with American society and I have come to the sad conclusion that the current way we provide for education, as a monopoly, at a cost of a billion dollars per year, per metro county, is really not effective. Parents have responsibility — they need to work with the teachers and administrators in having the children in school, ready to learn and to cooperate with the teachers in having them placed “appropriately” but the system is a failure (see the Stocill report — and he doesn’t even touch upon corruption and fraud in the usage of the funds) — there really are bad teachers and bad administrators and the federal government wastes a lot of money with their involvement and mandatory paperwork creating a federal bureaucracy for education that has also failed. We are wasting so much money. My simple answers: get the feds out; go to vouchers…. competition is really key.
Latest How To Make A Blog For Dollars News
September 19th, 2011
10:29 pm
[...] Your child may be all you have described (I don't doubt you at all), … Read far more on Atlanta Journal Constitution (weblog) Blog, Dollars, Latest, [...]
AS I SEE IT: Education, inspiration: what teachers do – Packet Online | Daily News Magazine
September 19th, 2011
11:02 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
ProudtobeaTeacher
September 20th, 2011
12:01 am
It’s evident that many feel passionately about their “fix” for the woes of our educational system, and to be quite honest, many valid points were made. However, in the end, whether you are the teacher, the parent, the administrator, or the politician rallying for reform, these children have been entrusted to us, and it is our job to educate them. Ideally, these children come to us from homes that value education and parents who have prepared their little ones for kindergarten. In reality, this is not always the case. As an educator, it is our “calling” and responsibility to provide a good education to each and every child, regardless of their background. For those of you who are teacher bashing, please remember that there are more quality teachers in this profession than there are poor ones. It must be a “calling” because we certainly aren’t here for the “big” paycheck we earn each month. Lastly, for those of you who mentioned the importance of students starting kindergarten as a reader, please do some research on developmental stages of learning. A non-reader as a kindergartener is in no way of predictor of future success. Future success is in the hands of the teacher, parent and student. It’s a trio that is a recipe for success!!
d
September 20th, 2011
12:18 am
A major problem I am seeing – especially in this day of test test test test and test again is students are memorizing (sometimes) the information they need for a test and then often quickly forget it. I work with seniors and last week had one of the most frustrating experiences I have ever had as a teacher. An assignment we were working on required a simple conversion – 3,000lbs into tons. The fact that 2,000lbs = 1 ton was provided. The student I was working with could not do the conversion…. and I know for a fact that conversions are done in science and math classes. The student’s response: “yes, I know I learned that last year, but I don’t need it so I forgot it.” When I told her the problem was simple arithmetic, she responded with a question asking what arithmetic is. The simple reply I gave her was the math from elementary school, addition, subtraction, multiplication, division. I got a similar response – basically wondering why skills from so long ago were now relevant. Am I a bad teacher for refusing to tell my student that 3,000 lbs is 1.5 tons and insisting that she figure this out on her own? The problem I then have is how do I reteach all of these basic skills and still teach my GPS? How do I meet the artificial deadlines of test dates (and I have not only the EOCT but also 6 and 12-week benchmarks) if I have to go back and reteach skills that students should have demonstrated competency in before they get to a senior-level course? Please don’t take this a “whining” or “complaining.” Please take this as an explanation of the reality that NCLB puts on the education system.
I heard something interesting today – comparing various economic systems and stating how command economies could be shown in places such as North Korea, Cuba, and your local board of education. Policies and procedures that make no sense being forced upon teachers who don’t need them because they look good on paper. Never mind the fact I have shown that I am successful in what I do…. there you go, there’s my word wall, my concept wall, my student work with a page long description of what it is because someone who has no clue about teaching economics may come evaluate me (If someone cannot look at a map of the Federal Reserve System or Supply and Demand Curves and not know what it is, how can they effectively evaluate what I am doing?)
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
September 20th, 2011
3:37 am
William Casey and JRAT,
THANKS for adding substance to this conversation.
College Recruiter
September 20th, 2011
7:47 am
Colleges/Universities have become almost exclusively businesses. Gaining entrance, with the exception of select schools, is practically a “shoe in.” These institutions are in a dog fit competing with each other for revenue, not to mention their battle with ever increasing on-line programs. Acceptance is no longer the primary issue for students, it is the ability to pay.
Again, colleges/Universities are fiercely scrambling for applicants.
lyncoln
September 20th, 2011
8:22 am
I have to point out, the poverty rate in the U.S. is 15% according to numbers released just last week. Not 25%.
In fact, it hasn’t been over 25% since at least 1959 (just check the basic wikipedia article).
carlosgvv
September 20th, 2011
8:25 am
The root of the problem is clear for anyone to see. Georga has a large number of students who simply are not very bright. No amount of social engineering or hand-wringing will ever change this. Unfortunately, politicial correctness has reached such a hysterical state in Georgia that few are able to say “the emperior has no clothes”.
Anonmom
September 20th, 2011
8:34 am
Please — please — please watch Stocill’s report. Know that I (and my family) for generations — going back to FDR have been Democrats and my mother, mother-in-law, father-in-law and 2 of my grandparents were teachers with principals and assistant principals in the mix — we are from a culture where education is highly valued and my generation are professionals. What I see is vast corruption and failure that will place my kids and grandkids in an America that looks nothing like the one my great grandparents emigrated to in order to escape persecution and to pursue the American dream — hard work, economic freedom and education has previously allowed that dream to become reality. For all of his problems, Carnegie was one of the biggest philanthropists America ever had — we might not had a library system or public parks if he had not been allowed to be an immigrant who could found an empire as a capitalist. Monopolies don’t work and education is a “ticket out.” America is #25 in the world for education — we are falling fast. We have incredible people if our people were to be allowed to “run” with what they have but instead they are being held back — I shudder for where this will leave our kids. Ultimately Rome fell — Hitler was able to wreck havoc. We can’t take freedom for granted.
Anonmom
September 20th, 2011
8:35 am
And yes, I do know that Carnegie did have a monopoly ….
Reality
September 20th, 2011
8:43 am
I teach in an affluent area of North Fulton. Students here are highly successful. Their SAT scores are increasing while the State and National average is decreasing. They regularly gain acceptance to Princeton, Harvard, MIT, Cal Tech, etc. In fact, these colleges regularly COME TO the high school to recruit students (not athletes)!!!! The faculty is great.
However, I have also taught in a DeKalb County school. That school barely made AYP while I was there. The students included some gangs from a poverty neighborhood. The classes included very low level classes where it was obvious that the teacher had to baby sit more than teach content. After I left for North Fulton, that school no longer made AYP. But, that faculty was also great.
The faculty at both schools were equally great. They were focused, devoted, knew their content, and were equally the same in both schools.
The difference was the student motivation, the parental involvement, and the community. I have seen this first hand. For me, the #1 contributor to student success is NOT the teacher, it is by far the environment the student comes from.
I have NEVER met a teacher that became a teacher just for a paycheck. They became teachers due to the desire to help kids and for the love of the professsion.
Dr NO / Mr Sunshine
September 20th, 2011
8:45 am
You guys/gals can dice this on any way you like, however, if the child lacks an education or the bare essentials just to survive it is ULTIMATELY the parents fault.
Schools are no longer allowed to discipline students appropriately and every time one of your little angels does something against the rules you parents come barreling in like a gang of stampeding water buffalo OR get the media, clergy, politicians, dogs, cab drivers etc involved.
I do not care about your kids education and nor should anyone else. It is YOUR responsbility to provide for and make sure you child is educated, not mine. However all is not lost as I have very little opposition to constructing larger and meaner prisons for your precious little angel.
bessbear
September 20th, 2011
8:52 am
Yes, the home environment is a huge factor in how kids will do in school, but lets also look to improve some of the problems in public education. Lets start with grouping kids according to their abilities so the teachers can better teach according to needs of each child. There are enough kids in each grade to do this, and I’m sorry if Johnny who doesn’t read yet will feel bad that he is in a class with other kids who don’t read yet, but it’s the TRUTH – he needs a different level of instruction, and it’s not fair to him, or the other kids who come to school already reading chapter books to mix all ability levels into one class.
Lets also get discipline back in the schools – nothing physical. Kids need to know it is a priveledge to go to school and they need to be removed from the class/school when problems exists. And stop bowing to the parents who won’t believe the teachers. Have the parents sign something at the beginning of the year that states kids will be removed from the class if discipline problems persist, and the parents will have to find other schooling options, at their own expense. If the parents want their kids to get free education, they need to get those kids to straighten up and respect the teacher’s rules.
jarvis
September 20th, 2011
9:32 am
So what is he saying? Georgia’s parents are less supportive than the 47 states that rank ahead of it in terms of education?
We need to go to Ohio to learn how to parent? Or do we need to go to New Mexico to learn how they achieve higher scores in ESOL homes?
Poorly analyzed argument. He’s ignoring facts and making excuses. The basis of comparison on CRCT is not an international one. It is comparing the states to one another. So when he says society and parents….he’s speaking in comparison to the specific society of Georgia.
He wrote an Op-Ed piece that should embarass educators because he didn’t look at it from an analytical standpoint. Dennis Brown may have been in Pre-K thru 12 for decades…let’s just hope it wasn’t in math or statistics because his argument is completely ignorant to the numbers (or even the basis of the numbers).
He has made a mockery of the profession he was trying to defend.
Curt
September 20th, 2011
9:37 am
As a parent, I am doing my job to the best of my abilitiy. I get sick of the other “parents” that are out there not doing their job. The good parents are a dying breed and unfortunately the culture of dyfunction is afftecting even the good kids. I get sick and tired of being politically correct and pretending like diversity and one parent families are a good thing. Quite honestly, I can often sum up a good student vs bad student pretty quickly. 9 times out of 10 … I am spot on, dead accurate about what the family of that bad kid looks like. Children are a product of their parents and their environment.
Unfortunately, I see many teacher’s families that don’t look that much better than the rest of the populace. Teachers do in fact bring their personal lives to work. Dysfunction is killing us all. It affects every aspect of our lives.
Modern day immigration has killed our country. The US is turning into a refugee camp for the World. It is killing our public education system. We need immigrants with money and brains, not the ones that are going to go on welfare and seek entitlements. We need to clean house here in the US.
used to teach
September 20th, 2011
9:56 am
Here is the thing. Most teachers go into teaching to make a difference. They like kids and love the subject. It is not long before they realize that they are being slammed for something that they did not even do thanks to the media and the government’s control.
Do we dish out the same criticism to others who botch things all the time? Take WSB weather woman karen minton who could not get the weather right if her life depended upon it ,or the doctor who lets you die of cancer.
See is it really necessary to villify the teachers when there are so many other factors that go into a child’s education?
NO
nope
September 20th, 2011
10:20 am
CRCT is a GA test jarvis – not country wide. just one of those ‘facts’.
Good Mother
September 20th, 2011
10:40 am
Listen to “Notes” comments: Note
September 19th, 2011
8:48 pm
“It’s my job to teach. It’s the student’s job to listen and learn. It’s the parent’s job to ensure that we both do our jobs.”
Note thinks it is MY job to ensure he or she is doing his/her job? Really?
How can I do that?
I am at work so that I can pay your salary. How am I supposed to make sure you are doing your job?
That’s what’s wrong here. It is the prinicpal’s job to ensure the teachers are doing their jobs and it is the administrator’s job to ensure teachers are doing their job.
I do not hire and fire teachers. I have no authority to do that. Why in the world would “Note” a self-proclaimed teacher demand that I ensure that a parent’s job is to ensure the teacher is doing their job?
It’s absolutely ludicrous.
Good Mother's Son
September 20th, 2011
10:51 am
Dats rit. Youz peoples leaf my mommie alone. Aint her fault Iz has no learned nothin fromz youz teaches. Its all yourz faults not hers.
jarvis
September 20th, 2011
11:03 am
@Nope. Sorry. I meant to use the general “Standardized Tests” rather than CRCT (the one time I used it in the entire post).
How did you feel about the actual merit of what I said? Or is nitpicking the use of the test the best you have to refute my point?
Reality
September 20th, 2011
11:20 am
@Good Mother – You need to stop. With every post you sound more and more insane.
nope
September 20th, 2011
11:41 am
I felt like you wrote your opinion about an opinion piece – you didn’t have facts either so it was sort of funny to me that you were calling the OP out on no facts.
So I didn’t see any merit in it
orwell
September 20th, 2011
12:06 pm
Maureen, I hope the AJC will also investigate and write about the quality of school administrators-in and out of the school building as well as attendance and discipline procedures.
Ineffective teachers and absentee parents aside, students will never receive the quality education they deserve when unqualified administrators and out of touch board members determine teacher responsbilities and impose timely, wasteful mandates.
Rockerbabe
September 20th, 2011
12:13 pm
I agree! Teachers cannot:
1. control the home environment; how the parents treat each other or the kids.
2. control what the kids eat or do not eat or even if they eat at all,
other than what they get at school, assuming the parents have made arrangements with the school with regard to the school’s nutrition programs.
3. control whether the kids do their homework or other school project assignments.
4. control how much TV, video gaming or internet usage that goes on in the home.
5. control the books, magazines, etc that the kids read, or even if the kids have access to these materials or do the reading at all.
6. control the effects of divorce or domestic violence that goes on in the home.
7. control the effects of illicit and rx drug use and the effects on the kids.
8. the priorties of academics vs athletes in most schools; especially the if kid is talented in athletics.
9. control the healthcare the kid receives or even if there is medical care provided when the kid is sick.
10. etc, etc, etc.
The truth is, teachers have little control over anything, except what they themselves actually do. The learning aspect of school is solely on the heads of the kids and their parents and the genuine importance of that learning. Kids will only get out of school, that which they put into to it and that is a truth that applies to most of life.
Stop blaming the teachers for what the parents and kids themselves fail to do.
mountain man
September 20th, 2011
12:17 pm
Rockerbabe – you left out an important one – Teachers cannot control whether or not a student even shows up at school.
Colonel Jack
September 20th, 2011
12:21 pm
I suppose it would be just plain silly to suggest that we allow teachers to teach, and not have to do all this ridiculous nonsense such as “Class Keys” or “Race to the Top” or any of that other bovine excrement. I suppose it would be just plain silly to suggest that administrators actually allow teachers to enforce discipline in their classrooms and grant teachers the right to remove unruly students. And I suppose it would be just plain silly to suggest that evaluations of teachers be conducted by people who do not have an “axe to grind” or some kind of political (or personal) agenda.
Yeah, that’d be silly.
mountain man
September 20th, 2011
12:23 pm
“Good” Mother – but it is your job to make sure your child is at school every day, that they are fed and hunger does not interfere with learning, that they complete their homework on time, that they are well-behaved in class and are not a distraction to the other students, and if you want your child to be successful, you should also provide books to read or regular trips to the library. Only when and if you do all of these things can you then take your child’s teacher to task for your child’s failure at school. Oh, and also you have to make sure your child’s peers do not ridicule him/her for being smart or “acting too white”.
barneyb
September 20th, 2011
12:31 pm
Kudos to Dennis Brown!!!!!
Politically correct or not, the fact is that some kids just aren’t that bright. And the involvement (or lack thereof) of parents plays a huge part. Not evey kid is going to be a Harvard Phi Beta Kappa. The world needs ditch diggers, too.
mountain man
September 20th, 2011
12:32 pm
So what is he saying? Georgia’s parents are less supportive than the 47 states that rank ahead of it in terms of education?
Yes.
FYI
September 20th, 2011
12:34 pm
@ Mountain Man, 12:23 pm. “Good Mother” is a troll, as many have stated on other Get Schooled blogs, who enjoys getting the attention from the teachers she attacks. No matter what answer you suggest, she will continue saying the same thing with the same words.
(I begin to see how she has time for her continual blogging, day and night: she simply cuts and pastes her entries over and over.)