Want to get into UGA or Tech? Start planning in middle school.
The competition to get into Tech and UGA will not subside any time soon. (AJC file)
Parents of current high school students will not be surprised by today’s AJC story on the rising caliber of students admitted to Georgia’s top public campuses. Most parents have a story about a great candidate from their local high school who was rejected by UGA or Tech. And there are many alums of both schools who admit they would never be admitted under today’s tougher standards.
Applications for UGA’s freshman class have increased by more than 50 percent since 2003. Tech’s applications have increased by 48 percent over the last four years.
As the competition for spots at the premier campuses has intensified, students are upping their academic games, enrolling in more AP classes. Parents of high school freshmen and sophomores ought to advise their children to read today’s AJC story so they better understand the risks of waiting until their junior year to get serious about their high school studies.
In fact, according to the story, middle school students ought to read the AJC story as well.
College admission pressures will not subside in Georgia, which will continue to see an increase in high school applicants. According to AJC reporter Laura Diamond, undergraduate enrollment in Georgia grew by 77 percent from 1999 to 2009, compared to 38 percent nationally. She reports that Georgia’s high school graduates are projected to increase by 22 percent over the next decade, compared to 10 percent for the nation.
She says: High-schoolers have to set goals and prepare earlier than ever if they are to have their choice. Some public and private middle school counselors begin talking with students and parents as early as sixth grade about what courses must be taken in high school to be attractive to competitive colleges.
This year’s freshmen at the University of Georgia, Georgia Tech, Georgia State and Georgia College & State universities shattered records for SAT scores and high school GPAs. That continued a steady rise that has altered the state’s higher education landscape, making a slot at Tech or UGA hotly competitive and fueling huge growth and higher standards at other public universities.
Georgia Tech’s freshmen earned an average 1378 on the math and verbal SAT — up almost 50 points from five years ago. They took more than three college-level Advanced Placement or International Baccalaureate courses by the end of junior year in high school and three more during senior year.
“It’s getting a little ridiculous,” said Rick Clark, director of undergraduate admissions at Georgia Tech. “The caliber is going up but the number of students we admit isn’t.”
The rising quality at top colleges has caused a trickle down effect. Enrollment at Georgia Southern and Kennesaw State universities has increased and the student talent has improved. Kennesaw State freshmen earned an average 1,074 on the math and verbal SAT — a gain of 52 points over the last decade.
Joshua Beane graduated from Grayson High in Gwinnett County with strong enough marks to compete for a spot at UGA. Freshmen there scored an average 1,254 on the SAT and had an average GPA of almost 3.8. But Beane didn’t apply.
“I just didn’t want to deal with it when there are a bunch of other colleges,” Beane said. “Smart people are going to those other colleges, too.”
He focused on less expensive campuses and those where he was likely to get in. He’s now a freshman at Kennesaw State.
The state’s HOPE scholarship has caused much of the rise. Prior to this fall, the scholarship paid all tuition at public colleges if students maintained a 3.0 GPA. The rules changed this academic year and now 10 percent of recipients get a full tuition award. The rest get a scholarship that covers most of tuition.
Before HOPE started in 1993, less than one-quarter of students who scored 1,400 or higher on the SAT stayed in state for college, according to the University System of Georgia. After, about three-quarters did.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
111 comments Add your comment
bootney farnsworth
August 28th, 2011
3:39 pm
@ DeKalb Tax.
the main advantage higher income families/districts have is they exist in an enviroment where the expectation is junior will go to college.
the neighborhoods and support systems respond to that.
sadly, all too often in the lower income ranges, the question moves from where will junior go to will junior be able to go at all.
Ernest
August 28th, 2011
3:40 pm
Thanks for sharing that valuable insight, teacher&mom! Given the recent changes to the transfer rules, it can be easier to get into one of the flagship universities after establishing yourself in college. This requires the student and parents being honest with themselves. Coming out of college with little or no debt should be a goal for all families, especially when you consider the current job market.
Ole Guy
August 28th, 2011
3:42 pm
All these AP offerings…! I was lucky to pass lunch!
You’re absolutely right, Teacher Mom. Your suggested path of attending smaller schools and (possibly) transferring to a “big name” school should not be an alternative…it should be the primary pipeline to that diploma. First year courses are somewhat generic…even basic engineering ie statics, dynamics, strength of materials…and could just as easily (and more cost-effectively) be satisfied at Home Town U.
While, in the competitive world, that piece of parchment from Big Name U might overshadow the diploma from a lesser-known institution, in the end…one’s professional life…I would imagine all considerations come out even in terms of a fullfilling career, lifetime earnings, etc.
bootney farnsworth
August 28th, 2011
3:42 pm
what doesn’t get stated in so many words is:
kids need to be making better choices in where they go to college, and why.
bootney farnsworth
August 28th, 2011
3:44 pm
myself, I’d make it so HOPE is only available to students who are attending two year schools for freshmen/sophomore work.
if they keep the grades, they can take HOPE off to 4 year college.
if junior wants to go to UGA right out of the gate, they can do it with their own money
Stewie
August 28th, 2011
4:16 pm
“All three of my decidedly middle-class children did extremely well on their SATS and not one of them took a prep course.”
And they almost assuredly would’ve done even better with prep courses. Ceteris paribus, if two students start with the same practice SAT score and one thereafter takes an expensive prep course, he’s probably going to score higher on the official SAT. Is he more qualified for college work than the other student, or just more fortunate?
DCSS graduate
August 28th, 2011
4:45 pm
Hi Megan: On the question of whether your daughter should take more than 2 AP classes, I think those teachers may be giving you bad advice. Let her take at least 3 her junior and senior years.
I took 9 AP courses at Chamblee High School, and though I worked extremely hard, I scored no lower than a 4 on any exam. Many of my classmates, who took a similar number of AP courses, went on to Tech and selective schools across the country. The students who did not take more than 2 a year did not get into those schools.
Nearly all of the classes at Tech are tough; it’s the equivalent of taking 4 APs at a time. There is very little grade inflation and students need to work hard to do well. It can be pretty shocking for students who don’t have strong backgrounds. Encouraging her to take the hard classes now will prepare her for what is to come. Two APs a year is not enough.
Calm Down
August 28th, 2011
5:06 pm
Why all the fuss? Just send your kids to APS and you won’t have to worry about them being qualified. They’ll be off the charts!
Yes, even the poverty stricken youngsters will perform as well as Stewie’s (above comment) middle class kids. We just need more leaders like Beverly Hall and our problems will be solved.
CurrentDawg
August 28th, 2011
5:22 pm
This article is the best argument for continuing to fully fund the HOPE scholarship (also, it’s a strong argument against implementing income caps for HOPE). The HOPE scholarship has given Georgia students a major incentive to stay in-state for college; without out, there’s no doubt in my mind that many bright Georgia students would flock north to the (costly) privates.
-Current (second-year) Dawg who chose UGA over Vandy, Duke, and UVA.
WaltonMom
August 28th, 2011
5:28 pm
My child went to a public high school, Walton High School in Marietta, and he had small class size in most his AP classes. He took 11 AP classes in all by the time he graduated and scored all 4’s and 5’s on his AP test, which is not that unusual at Walton where many high achieving students attend. I have heard about grade inflation from parents at Fulton and Dekalb schools, but you just don’t see it at Walton. I also have a friend who is a high school teacher in Fulton and she says they automatically must let the kids retake tests if they do poorly. That is absolutely unheard of at Walton, there is no test retaking at all and you get the grade you get. So, I don’t think it is public vs. private as much as it is which public high school.
MisterRog
August 28th, 2011
5:43 pm
http://www.storiesfromschool.org/2010/08/welders-wanted.html
Inman Park Boy
August 28th, 2011
5:57 pm
You know what? You get just as good an education (if not better) at West Georgia, Georgia Southern, Georgia Gwinnett, etc, etc. The main difference is size and ego.
catlady
August 28th, 2011
5:59 pm
Anyone here ever heard of social and cultural capital? My kids had it; many of their classmates did not. I had it (2 parents college-graduated in the 1940s, including dad BSEE from Duke in 3 years).
Many times we blame the less-affluent kids for not taking the right courses, etc. Actually, they don’t have the social and cultural capital their more wealthy peers accrued through their parents and the activities their parents exposed them to from the cradle on.
Les
August 28th, 2011
6:41 pm
There are other ways of getting into the state flagship universities. My daughter graduated from UGA a year ago. But two of her high school classmates who applied to UGA in high school but not accepted just graduated from UGA this year. One girl went to West Georgia and transfered to UGA after her sophmore year with a 3.0 GPA… and the second girl went to Georgia Perimeter College under a guarantee transfer program to UGA, and transfered to UGA with a 2.8 GPA. Now they are all UGA graduates.
So you don’t get accepted to UGA. There are other ways of getting there, even without a stratospheric SAT or perfect GPA.
Why Limit Your Options (WLYO)
August 28th, 2011
6:46 pm
Students should not restrict their options. It is possible
that they will find an equivalent ranked school for about
the same cost through the Southern Regional Education
Board. View the link below for details. Many states have
the equivalent of the Southern Regional Education Board.
http://www.sreb.org/page/1304/academic_common_market.html
Rik Roberts
August 28th, 2011
7:15 pm
My two oldest both went to college early, the latest under the Move on When Ready program. Why take AP classes when you can get two years of college classes paid for by the state while still in High School? In addition, after graduating high school you still have four years of HOPE eligibility. I’m encouraging my kids to stretch it out and get dual degrees since it’s free.
atlmom
August 28th, 2011
7:36 pm
@hannah: even in this market, with the right degree, one would be valuable. I can see it right now where the only people in the US qualified for certain jobs are not from the US. I have a distinct advantage, being a US citizen.
So what if someone is ‘fortunate’ that they get to take a prep class? Jeez.
If you say: oh, I’m not going to give a scholarship to those who can get into UGA right out of high school…what is the purpose of the HOPE? is it to keep people in GA? Is it to only give it to those who are ‘late starters’? what is the goal?
Anonmom
August 28th, 2011
7:37 pm
There’s no grade inflation at Lakeside; no opportunities to retake tests and no late assignments — they are sometimes due before the bell rings and if you turn it in after the bell — it, too, was a zero — even if you were standing there, holding it. So, Lakeside isn’t a place for those who can’t handle tough rules and consequences.
Ole Guy
August 28th, 2011
7:41 pm
Good point, Cat! Fortunately…or unfortunately…the capital you speak of remains the domain of the more-affluent. FORTUNATELY because the “please and thank-yous”, and all those “social graces” which many learned through the “random osmosis” of growing up in the “right” environment certainly carry forward into our personal and professional lives. UNFORTUNATELY because the very last thing we, as a progressive society, need is class segregation.
My credentials include both “hands-on” skills certification as well as professional affiliations. Those with whome I toil/with whome I HAVE toiled obviously come from a variety of socio-economic and educational backgrounds. While we all may not have the same socio-cultural capital to which you refer, it is extremely important that we recognize these differences. All too often, these differences have served as a wedge/a divider in our quest for progress, as well as a “wall” on the path toward achieving educational goals. This wall, however, need not be impregnable…unless we want and allow them to be.
George
August 28th, 2011
8:31 pm
I pity today’s devoted high school teachers who are practically forced into grade inflation by students/parents for the sake of getting HOPE. There are also a multitude of college instructors who likewise feel the pressure from the (often undeserving) student to retain it.
One more thing. There are more than a few, who because of who they know, are practically instantly enrolled in our best universities. That’s a fact.
Public School Student
August 28th, 2011
8:35 pm
I spent grades 6-12 in Fulton County Schools and graduated from a Fulton County public high school in 2005. My 10th grade year I took one AP class (World History), 11th grade year I took four (Chemistry, Statistics, US History, and English Comp), and in 12th grade I took five (Calculus AB, International Politics, U.S. Politics, MicroEconomics, and English Lit). I scored mostly 5s, with one 4 and one 3 among the assortment.
I don’t say this to pat myself on the back, as I would only consider myself an above average student. Other students took even more AP courses through online classes and directed study. Other students scored straight fives. My experience was not an anomaly, and yes, I still participated in extra-curriculars and worked a part-time job.
I went on to UGA (because of the HOPE scholarship) and had little trouble with the “pressure cooker” environment, because most of my first year coursework was not as challenging as my AP classes had been.
All this to say, three or more AP classes with good scores on those exams is reasonable. AP coursework is the best preparation for college. So what if the teacher is bad and doesn’t follow suggested national curriculum? Well, newsflash, but their are bad college professors who won’t teach you what is going to be on the final exam. The earlier a student can learn to take charge of their own learning, the better, and AP courses force students to do so.
These more strenuous benchmarks for admission are good for Georgia’s universities and more importantly, good for Georgia’s students.
hello.life
August 28th, 2011
9:05 pm
The ability to retake tests is called Recovery and is in theory only offered to those who are truly trying their best but are doing poorly. You are only able to have Recovery if you have a grade average lower than a 72 (I think) and you have completed ALL of your assignments. If all work is completed you are able to retake the test. I don’t think the student can earn a full one hundred percent though. I just wanted to clear this up because I’m getting the impression that people are thinking that you can just fail tests and get a second chance.
Georgia Parent
August 28th, 2011
10:57 pm
A friend of mine is a high school History teacher. When he got his first class assignment last year, he was delighted. He said “I have all the gifted kids.” I was led to believe that the kids who had been tracked as “gifted” from elementary school were the ones on track toward AP and Honors classes. But my kids aren’t there yet in terms of age, and they’re not considered “gifted.” Of course, your post about the restrictions at UGA and GA Tech causes some anxiety. Am I incorrect in my understanding about the way students are tracked toward the college-prep courses in high school? If you have non-gifted kids heading toward middle school, should you just lower your expectations and start talking about how nice Statesboro must be in the spring?
hardworkingteacher
August 28th, 2011
11:26 pm
Unfortunately, many qualified white middle class male applicants DID NOT and DO NOT get into UGA and tech because of reverse discrimination. I know several former students, one being a Presidential Scholar, SAT score 1761, AP credits, GPA 4.0 and accepted to several other large state universities , but was not admitted to UGA. All the female and minority students with much lower scores and GPA scores were admitted. It is a shame that Georgia is losing some of the cream of the crop students in favor of a politically correct agenda in place at UGA!
Is Chik-fil-A Morris Brown's Saviour? - City-Data Forum
August 28th, 2011
11:51 pm
[...] I like the Chick-Fil-A idea a lot. Chick-fil-A eyes Morris Brown for Truett Cathy legacy center – Atlanta Business Chronicle Then, this could lead to the possibility of MB going on the path to becoming Morris Brown Christian University. A good addition to the AUC. Morris Brown Chrisitian College could also work. The other option is for Morris Brown (and Clark!) to become public universities: Morris Brown State University* Clark State University* *These articles reveal how the addition of more public universities would be very beneficial to Georgia and Georgia students (as well as the AUC and Atlanta): Universities raise bar Want to get into UGA or Tech? Start planning in middle school. | Get Schooled [...]
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta
August 29th, 2011
3:09 am
Inman Park Boy,
A student at a “second-tier” school will probably have professors who are more effective instructors than will the majority of students at UGA, at Tech, and at the two GSUs. The latter grouping will face many graduate assistants as distracted instructors in classes for their basic coursework. The former will face more experienced, more instruction-focused faculty in their core classes.
Jerry
August 29th, 2011
4:33 am
@Altmom…..if you read my post, I never use the word “fair” I do use the word equal and make no mistake, they are not synonymous. @Stewie I was implying those students who are raised surrounded by resources have a distinct advantage. I believe your comment supports of that perspective. I simply do not believe grades (so inconsistent) or SAT scores are an accurate reflection of ability.
Time4change
August 29th, 2011
5:23 am
IB is based on two year courses and application of knowledge. It is better university preparation than AP courses. Isn’t the preparation for success what we want more
than scores and grades?
Peter Smagorinsky
August 29th, 2011
6:10 am
It’s interesting to see that even a story about rising levels of achievement according to multiple measurements still brings out the haters. Dismantle the schools, it’s all a sham, etc., no matter what the news is.
bootney farnsworth
August 29th, 2011
9:03 am
@ hardworking
true, but right now it is what it is. UGA & the BOR are pursuing a
social policy 30 years out of date. but its not like its kept
secret.
this goes back to the social capital thing catlady mentioned earlier.
give them (the BOR) a more rounded transcript and make it harder for them to turn you away.
AP classes are nice -I suppose- but schools want to see an applicant did
more than just go to class and chase girls.
funny
August 29th, 2011
9:17 am
only thing the colleges are doing is bending the curve so they can get rid of all these remedial students
Hmmmmmmmm
August 29th, 2011
10:45 am
My only hope is if my kid can play football….. UGA and GT will both find a way to admit….
Hmmmmmmmm
August 29th, 2011
10:49 am
Or Basketball….
Old Dominion
August 29th, 2011
11:13 am
I moved my family from Georgia to Northern Virginia in time for my daughter to enter 6th grade with a traditional math curriculum in the public schools. About 15% of the kids in my daughter’s 8th grade class will have finished algebra and geometry by the end of this year, on track to complete AP Calculus BC by end of junior year of high school. More than 50% of the kids in her class will complete algebra by the end of the 8th grade, which puts them on track to complete AP Calculus AB by end of senior year of high school. Still, a very small number will be admitted to the top Virginia public schools – UVa and VaTech – because both have quotas on freshmen that can be admitted from any given high school. UVa accepts 30% of their 18,000 students from out of state, in order to boost the revenues. Expect big changes in Georgia higher education as the budgets continue to squeeze out Georgia students who are highly qualified. They will lose spots not just to other Georgia students but also to out-of-state and international students.
Really amazed
August 29th, 2011
11:33 am
@hardworking teacher, so true!!! My son is just a junior, but was told by his high school college coun. that this could be a problem for him, even thought 4 aps already, good grades, decent psat scores so far, many extra curr, part time job since 14, mission trip to Mexico etc. but at least he was honest!!! I don’t know why people don’t want to believe this.
www.honeyfern.org
August 29th, 2011
11:43 am
All high school students at HoneyFern take a minimum of four AP classes, and they are generally in a one-to-one student-teacher ratio. That should help with learning the material instead of simply memorizing and regurgitating.
Just wrote about the importance of a college degree; that will be published tomorrow at http://honeyfern.ning.com.
Maureen Downey
August 29th, 2011
11:57 am
@Really, I am surprised at the comments that boys face a harder time gaining admission because there has been a lot of discussion in higher ed circles about how many more qualified female applicants they get, but campuses have to balance genders. (If there are too many women, male and female candidates are discouraged.)
Even with that, many campuses are 60 female and 40 male. Even private colleges struggle to retain 55 percent female and 45 percent male.
In fact, here is a piece I just read:
And here is a Washington Post story on this issue:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/college-inc/2010/01/college_gender_gap_stabilizing.html
.
Hundreds of options
August 29th, 2011
12:03 pm
As more students from other cultures increase in metro Atlanta the top state school in GA can select the “cream of the crop” and they should. However, any school from the Ivy League to technical schools are going to have freshmen on academic probation at the end of their first year.
There are many other colleges in GA that may actually serve students better, however parents and students like to say they got into UGA or Tech. What I would like an explaination of is with larger freshmen classes and increased overall enrollment, why is tuition continuing to rise so high?
Really amazed
August 29th, 2011
12:10 pm
@Maureen, all I know is we were told this could be a problem if waiting exceptance to GT. They are a heavier male dom. school that is looking for a more diversified student body. Diversity and female applicants weight more than caus. males. They would like to see more females apply for engineering degrees. I also have a daughter, it will be interesting to see what happens when she is a senior in high school.
Nat Turner
August 29th, 2011
12:14 pm
Thank you, Maureen. What really and hardworking were saying is crap. There are 450 blacks and 350 latinos entering UGA this year. That is out of 30,000 students. And you better believe that they didn’t just accept any minority just because they were a minority because of people like really and hardworking. It is a shame that these students are being targeted when they worked just as hard to get into school.
Maureen Downey
August 29th, 2011
12:21 pm
@Really, Tech has historically had more males, but that is shifting. There are oddities in admissions that defy logic. I know one male Atlanta student who was accepted into Tech, but not UGA. (His parents told me that he ended up enjoying Tech.)
Maureen
Warrior Woman
August 29th, 2011
12:26 pm
@Megan Hayes-Golding – “Interested students are welcome” is most assuredly NOT the right answer to any question about admission to AP or IB classes. When admissions are open, the class quality is reduced and syllabus coverage declines to allow the less-capable students to keep up. This hurts the students that should be in the advanced classes.
Really amazed
August 29th, 2011
12:29 pm
@Nat, If you have read any of my other blogs, you too would realize that I am for ANY student of ANY color going to college. I feel that they should ALL be playing the same field EQUALLY!!!!!! I am just stating what my son’s college cons. has stated and HAS happened. If you don’t think it ever does, then you too are drinking the gov’t kool-aid. William and Mary and Wesleyan have been more female oriented school for years. Look at Agnes-Scott! I am talking about GT and UGA!!! By the way, I could qualify as just about any race. So you can’t call the race card on me!!!
That Kid's Mom
August 29th, 2011
12:40 pm
Need some advice here: My son (who is relatively bright!) is in 8th grade in Dekalb County. (Sucks to be him, I know.) Where do I start on getting ahead of the planning game for college? He’s in his 3 year of playing alto sax, plays football, has done well in every grade thus far (with the exception of 7th grade when he discovered girls)… but it seems the MIDDLE schools in So. Dekalb County aren’t prepared to even broach the subject of higher education with these kids. Why wait until their 10th grade year to start discussing college options?? I never understood that. The school counselors only seem to be there for discipline issues. I’ve had extensive conversations with my son and he wants to study law/law enforcement, eventually joining the GBI/FBI. He’s wanted to be a cop since he was 6.
Steven
August 29th, 2011
12:53 pm
I live in Dekalb County where Stephenson is the “home” high school. I know many, many smart, qualified Black students who applied to UGA and were not accepted. My son applied to UGA and was not accepted (took three AP classes, Joint Enrollment at GPC, 3.8 GPA, and 1310 on Math/English SAT). When I spoke to someone at the Admissions Office, I learned that less than 50 African American males (non-scholarship athletes) were accepted into the UGA freshman class.
Out of nearly 5000 freshman accepted, less than 50 were Black males. I make this point because when I read statements from posters here (”hardworkingteacher” and “Really amazed”) who falsely claim that many qualified white middle class male applicants did not get into UGA because of reverse discrimination… that is a total myth. With less than 10% of the freshman students accepted being African American, and only 1% being an African American male who is not an athlete – obviously it is not a case of Whites not being allowed-in because spots are reserved for Blacks. Basically, very very few Blacks are being let in. Only a few handfulls of Black males were admitted out of thousands and thousands of freshman.
Let’s face it. If a White male was not admiied to UGA, it had nothing to do with the Black students admitted.
Really amazed
August 29th, 2011
12:58 pm
@Steven, I never said anything about BLACK! Re-read my comments!
why
August 29th, 2011
1:07 pm
@ Really amazed, you didn’t have to.
Really amazed
August 29th, 2011
1:14 pm
Female is minority when you are male!!!! Way to touchy! This happens in businesses too. If they need to fill female or whatever minority position first, they will. I don’t care who is more qualified. Don’t any of you work for big corporate america?
Lee
August 29th, 2011
1:58 pm
Interesting. Years ago, when UGA was the butt of “drive-by diploma” jokes, people weren’t happy and now that UGA is in a position to selectively admit students, people still aren’t happy. Oh well…
——————–
Way back when, I began thinking about college around March of my senior year. SAT Prep meant that you needed to bring enough #2 pencils to make it through the test. Times have indeed changed.
catlady
August 29th, 2011
3:09 pm
Actually the preparation starts before birth. Choose your partner wisely. Then, from the cradle on, be sure to think of the big picture as you raise your child. One of the studies I reviewed for my dissertation was called, “Conversations in the Nursery” on developing college aspirations from a young age.