AYP transfers: Does anybody win? Does anyone know?
One of the most contentious provisions of the federal No Child Left Behind Act is the AYP transfer mandate in which students from schools deemed failing can transfer to schools judged as more successful.
The problem is that the wave of students transferring can tax the receiving school. Not surprisingly, no one in the state keeps track of whether students who exercise their right to transfer to another school end up doing better than their classmates who stay put.
In theory, you might assume that kids would do better at a “better” school, but they may lose ground if the classes are overcrowded or they have adjustment challenges to a new setting. If transportation home to their neighborhoods is a problem, then the students may be less likely to participate in after-school activities or evening programs.
And there is the overarching debate over whether the AYP designations are even remotely accurate in depicting “good” and “bad” schools.
There were so many transfer requests this year to Druid Hills High School in DeKalb that the county created an “annex” to the school in the empty Avondale High School building on the corner of Memorial and Columbia Drives, four miles from the actual Druid Hills campus. The district was responding to concerns of Druid Hills parents who complained that their school already had absorbed 200 students from Avondale High after it closed in May.
It is not just DeKalb parents who are concerned. As a Fulton parent noted in an e-mail to me: I think it would be nice if a follow-up story could be done about the transfers of south Fulton students all the way to Northview and Chattahoochee high schools. Many that I know are not pleased that these schools are now at capacity or almost over capacity. I am curious to know how this affects class size and morale among students and teachers. I also wonder how the teachers fare in understanding the issues with students that must travel so far to come to school. (tiredness, inability to fit in with the rest of the school community) I don’t like what DeKalb has done by putting all of those students in an annex. Sounds very strange to me.
Here is the news story where the AJC addresses the thorny NCLB transfer issue:
More than half the transferring students in metro Atlanta’s core counties are in DeKalb County, where about 1,300 have asked to change schools this year. Amanda Glover, 14, is one of them. Her mother, Shelia, is willing to drive her to a school that has met the benchmarks established under the No Child Left Behind Act.
“It’s all about academics, 100 percent about that,” said Shelia Glover, whose daughter would have been a freshman at Towers High School had it not repeatedly failed to make those benchmarks. “Their scores in math and reading have really collapsed, and I absolutely want my daughter to go to college,” Glover said of Towers. “We had no choice but to send her to a better school.”
Her definition of better is Druid Hills High. The school was among the county’s leaders on the SAT in 2010, with an average score of 1513. Towers’ average score of 1134 was the lowest of DeKalb’s high schools and well below the state average of 1453.
But Amanda and about 300 other transfer students are attending an annex the school system opened on the grounds of the recently closed Avondale High after hearing complaints from Druid Hills parents about crowding. The transfer students, now housed four miles away from Druid Hills in the shadow of a Walmart in a less affluent part of the county, must take a bus to the main campus if they want to participate in sports or other extracurricular activities. Their testing scores will count toward Druid Hills’ scores.
It’s an example of the contortions forced on school systems and parents by No Child Left Behind. Each year, the law raises performance standards and the list of failing schools grows. This year 379 Georgia schools failed to meet those standards for at least a second year in a row, an increase of 74. Students at those schools are entitled to transfer.
The DeKalb school system has not studied whether transfer students do any better once they have changed schools. School officials say their role is simply to follow the law.
Twenty-two of DeKalb’s schools, about one in six, failed to make AYP for two years in a row, meaning their students are eligible to apply for transfers. About 6 percent did so, according to the school system. Students who wish to transfer can choose from four high schools, three middle schools and three elementary schools designated to receive them.
Because students who have already transferred do not have to reapply, the effect compounds over time. This year, about 14 percent of DeKalb’s roughly 100,000 students are attending a different school as a result of No Child Left Behind. DeKalb school board member Jesse “Jay” Cunningham said too many have abandoned their local schools.
“We need to quit thinking that the grass is greener on the other side,” he said. “We need to keep our kids in our neighborhoods. We need to give our local schools the tools they need to do their jobs.”
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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95 comments Add your comment
Good Mother Enough Money For all
August 22nd, 2011
12:39 pm
The thing is, there is enough money for every good school to grow without using portables. The horrific reality is that the money is being used on malicious board members who would rather live like the rich and famous than to ensure OUR money is spent wisely — on the children. I often hear how APS spends X dollars per student. It’s a lie. They need to measure how much money they spend per administrator.
Right now as we speak, APS is paying ONE MILLION dollars a month just on the salaries of those teachers on administrative leave for cheating. Think how many bricks and mortar classrooms and fine, educated teachers that will pay for. A million a month. That’s not counting Heavy Bevvy’s legal fees and all her corrupt expenses.
There is more than enough to go around. The trouble is that is isn’t going around — it stays in teh same place — at the APS BOE crooks.
I honestly don’t mind paying the $5,000 property taxes on my property WHEN that money is actually spent on things that matter — good teachers and real buildings but when my hard-earned money goes to the crooks, I want to take my baseball bat and play wack a mole at the APS BOE.
Good Mother to @Good Mother
August 22nd, 2011
12:51 pm
No, my children don’t go to Toomer. I read about Toomer when the cheating scandal broke. I looked up every school in APS online and compared the cheating percentages with other schools and it had one of the highest. Mammoth erasure percentages. Systemic cheating and the worst part…
One hundred percent lack of responsibility. Not one single teacher or employee of Toomer would own up to any wrong, would admit they lied. It was a game to them. It was funny to them. Let’s have an “erasure party” as if it was some silly sorority game.
They robbed those kids and sh*t all over them. They need to live behind bars. What they stole can never ever be given back. Robbing from defenseless children. Only the worst kind of scum does that.
@Good Mother
August 22nd, 2011
1:26 pm
You’ve got the wrong school. You are talking about Parks Middle School, not Toomer Elementry. Here is Toomer’s report- Bad, but not by any means the worst, and some teachers did confess. Also, this school has had a new principal since the fall of 2009- after the cheating occured- who has a spotless record and is committed to every child learning and would never cheat any child of the best possible education. You should do your research properly before you just mistakenly label a school the worst.
SCHOOL
65 su-ea Pnueipai; Dr.Tonyz1 sattnam snr-3 Executive Director: Dr. oiutm Pahersou
Atlanta omgaa 30317 Testing comimtmr; 1-imkarm vvmtiaw
I. INVESTIGAT I F, SUNINIARY
Cheating occurred on the CRCT at Toomer Elementary in 2009 and in other years.
Fifteen people were interviewed at this school, some more than once. Two teachers confessed to
cheating. Cheating at Toomer is evidenced by confessions and witness testimony. Principal
Tonya Saunders and Testing Coordinator Hezekiah Wardlow instructed teachers to cheat on the
CRCT and the Fifth Grade Writing Test. Principal Tonya Saunders failed to properly monitor
the 2009 CRCT.
II. STATISTICAL DATA
2009 2010
Percentage ot`Classr0oms Flagged for WTR Erasuies 21.4 0
Numhe1`ofClassroo1i1s lilagged for Ihasures 9 0
Number ol` Fluggetl for WTR Standard Deviations above 4
3.0 {Nmnber of Teachers Flagged iu Multiple Subjects)
Mean W’l`l< Standard Ileviations from State Norm 6.6 0
High Flagged Standard Deviation 14.6 0
Low Flaggcd Standard Deviation 3.8 0
OF EVIDENCE
A. Narrative
Principal Saunders instructed teachers to prompt students to change their answers during
the 2009 CRCT, and to look ahead in the CRCT booklet and make sure the students were
prepared for the material to be tested.
Hezekiah Wardlow instructed Latoya Stiffend to arrange her students in a way that would
ensure that the lower achieving students received easier Fifth Grade Writing Test prompts.
Teachers used voice inflection to prompt their students during the administration of the
2009 CRCT.
B. Testimony of Witnesses
1. Lysundra (Rucker}
Lysandra Hardaway admitted to prompting students by infl ecti ng her voice to emphasize
the correct answer during the administration of the 2009 CRCT.
204
p. 47Hardaway testified that there were no proctors in the classrooms at Toomer, only
monitors who would occasionally walk into individual classrooms.
2. Sheila Brown Teuclzerg
Sheila Brown confessed to prornpting students by inllecting her voice to emphasize tl1e
correct answer during the administration of the 2009 CRCT. She also admitted to prompting
students to change incorrect answers during the administration ofthe 2009 CRCT.
3. Me gan Dosmcmir Teacher)
During the administration of the 2006 CRCT, Principal Saunders instructed Megan
Dosmann to look ahead at the next section. Saunders said, "Your students better know
everything on the math section." Dorsmann testified that she felt that Principal Saunders was
encouraging her to cheat, or "feeling her out" to see if she would cheat.
Dosmann heard that the CRCT was photocopied at Toomer, but she never saw a
photocopy of any CRCT.
Megan Dosmann saw Denita Carr prompting students during the administration of the
CRCT. She was unsure of the year. but knew it to be between 2005 and 2009.
Latoya Royal Sligend (Teacher}
Testing Coordinator Wardlow approached Latoya Stiffend during the Fifth Grade Writing
Test and suggested she seat students in an order such that students would obtain writing topics
that would improperly maximize students' scores. Stiffend denied that she seated her students in
the order Testing Coordinator Wardlow suggested.
C. Testimony of Individuals Implicated
1. I onya Saunders (l'rir1ciga/A
Principal Saunders testified that she was in the hospital undergoing emergency surgery
during the administration of the 2009 CRCT. Testing Coordinator Wardlow was in charge ofthe
school during the 2009 CRCT. She testified that the tests were kept in Wardlow's office, and
that she did not have a key to his office.
Principal Saunders admitted to instructing her teachers to look ahead in the CRCT
booklet and make sure that they taught the covered material before the next testing session. She
admitted instructing her teachers to tell individual students to check their answers when the
teacher noticed they had answered a particular question incorrectly. She later recanted and
denied making both admissions.
Principal Saunders placed teachers on PDPs for low test scores? and given this pressure
she was not surprised that they cheated. She was surprised that some students passed the CRCT
because their classroom performance did not match their CRCT scores. She stated that as long
as teachers met targets and students passed, she did not question how CRCT scores occurred.
2052. Hezekiah Wardlow (l?srmg
Testing Coordinator I–Iezekiah Wardlow denied ever instructing Latoya Stiffend to seat
her students in a particular order for the Fifth Grade Writing Test. Principal Saunders had a key
to his office. A representative from SRT-3 was present with him during the CRCT testing
window.
IV. ANALYSIS OE EVIDENCE
We conclude that Principal Saunders instructed her teachers to cheat by prompting
students to change answers on the 2009 CRCT. We also conclude that Principal Saunders
instructed her teachers to cheat by looking ahead in the 2009 CRCT test booklet to improperly
discover what material would be tested in those sections. Testing Coordinator Wardlow
instructed Latoya Stiffend to seat her students in a way that would alter the results of the 2009
Fifth Grade Writing Test. Sheila Brown and Lysandra Hardaway cheated by prompting their
students to change answers on the 2009 CRCT.
It is also our conclusion. from the statistical data and the other evidence secured in this
investigation, that Principal Tonya Saunders failed to properly monitor the 2009 CRCT, and
adequately supervise the testing activities and test security. This resulted in, and she is
responsible for. falsifying, misrepresenting or erroneously reporting the results of the 2009
CRCT to the Georgia Department of Education.
206
Tim
August 22nd, 2011
1:28 pm
Until this school year, I taught on the high school level, but have been making the transition to junior college teaching this year. There are numerous problems with the educational system. One is the leadership in most systems is a “good ole boy” network. Another is it is so political that no one has the guts to make the tough calls.
I personally like NCLB. It opens up a need for the bad schools to get better. Yes, a drawback is the increasing student teacher ratios in the goods schools.
We have been sending our children to a private school, which was excellent until it was recently sold and the church that bought it has been coveting it to make themselves look better in the community, rather than to continue growing an already good school into a great school. I almost pulled my kids from this school and sent them to a public school that had not been an option due to districting until the public school we are districted for did not meet NCLB options.
I don’t think we have had the transfer “issues” here in Alabama that you have had in Georgia, but it will come. For one thing, the media here in this state has not made the public awared of the transfer option the way it has been done in Georgia. But, it will come.
To Lisa from Good Mother
August 22nd, 2011
1:31 pm
Lisa, your comments are so sad. You blame the parents. When will you and others put one iota of blame on the school, the teachers, the system?
To hear you tell it, Lisa, rich people are moving into a school district with a terrrible school so that they can buy a big house. The know the school is rotten and their diabolical plan all along is to move into that poorer neighborhood to get a bigger house, then purposefully transer out the student.
It’s ludicrous. Parents didn’t force teachers to cheat. Parents didn’t force teachers to steal. They had no idea any of it was going on and for years those schools were living up to AYP because of the cheating.
No one should have to transer to get to a “good school.” All American schools should be “good schools.” If we eliminate the filth up top at APS BOE, there will be enough to go around — enough money to hire honest teachers, enough money to build real buildings.
And what of poor students ? They had no say so in their predicament. Do you think their parents planned to become poor so they could live in a poor school system and get transferred out?
Your assumptions are pitiful.
Mom
August 22nd, 2011
1:35 pm
My local middle school is a receiving school. This year we are the only middle school in our county that made AYP. So we are receiving kids from every other school in the county. We have received HUNDREDS of transfers. I don’t understand how this can be better for anyone. Our classes are filled to the max, we don’t have enough teachers, we don’t have enough physical space and will have to bring in trailers. We just built two beautiful new 25 million dollar middle schools with capacities of 1200 each, that now sit well below capacity, because they are failing–and our circa 1975 run down school built for 500 kids is overflowing. . . .ridiculous! There has got to be another way!
@Good Mother-You have the wrong school!
August 22nd, 2011
1:45 pm
You are talking about Parks Middle School- not Toomer Elementary. I tried to post Toomer’s report but it did not take. But Toomer did not have the highest percentage or even close or erasure parties. There was cheating and that was bad, and teachers did confess to certain things, but the school has had a new principal since the fall of 2009- after the cheating in the report. The new principal came from a school that was so clean it was not even investigated at all. She would never deny or cheat any child of the best possible education. She has a vision for the school and concrete and real ways to acheive those goals. You should be more careful about damaging a school’s reputation and get the facts correct.
Happy Feet
August 22nd, 2011
2:04 pm
The best way is no transfers, period. But since it is allowed and a parent chooses to have their child transferred to another school and they get in, that is their choice but not one single dime should go to transportation costs. If there are seats available at a school, it is okay to fill them but I can tell you right now, Lakeside, Dunwoody and Chamblee are above capacity. Druid Hills got more students, just not the ones they were trying to get by pushing an idiotic redistricting plan.
A Conservative Voice
August 22nd, 2011
2:35 pm
When are we marching?…….
Once Again
August 22nd, 2011
3:02 pm
The government fails at everything else it does and yet you are shocked when it fails at delivering educational services. Does anyone see a problem here? You can like the idea of public schooling all you want, but that won’t make it work any better than liking the idea of a federal agency to keep medicines safe will make the FDA anything short of a protection racquet for the big pharmaceutical companies. Only the free market cares about its customers.
interesting facts about UAE, but I am still leaving Georgia
August 22nd, 2011
3:33 pm
AYP transfers should be halted!!! Instead, the students attending the schools must understand their purpose for being there. Furthermore, parents must demand that their children work diligently to create a positive learning environment. Parents must also parent, and teach their children to respect others. Schools should be safe-havens, but if the community is a war-zone, the schools will mirror the environment. People who have no morals and/or values cannot be bailed out of every uncomfortable situation. They need to take responsibility for their actions and communities.
To @Good Mother
August 22nd, 2011
3:49 pm
I do have the facts straight. I never said Toomer was the worst of APS. I said it is horrible. Toomer’s tumor has a reputation it deserves.
If you cannot find the statistics, you haven’t looked. Let Google be your friend.
To interesting....
August 22nd, 2011
3:55 pm
Dear interesting, you say parents must do this and children must do that. You are full of demands for kids and parents….but where are the same standards for yourself?
Why don’t YOU have any responsibility?
It’s like this: The educational system is like a race car. I’m the pit crew. When your car stops into the pit crew I gas it up (pay for it), I change the tires, lubricate the wheels, give water to the driver…but once that race car pulls out of the pit stop and onto the race track, there is nothing as a parent I can do.
The rest is UP TO YOU.
To Tim
August 22nd, 2011
4:01 pm
Tim says “For one thing, the media here in this state has not made the public awared of the transfer option the way it has been done in Georgia. But, it will come.”
I appreciated your comments, Tim. I am very familiar with Alabama’s schools and I agree with your assessment that their time will come.
Regarding the media, I’d like to say THANK GOODNESS FOR journalists.
I really appreciate journalists, those who uncover and expose corrupt government. Journalists are generally very highly educated, very low paid and work tremendous hours.
Journalists are our society’s watch dogs and guardians of democracy.
I thank all of you, sincerely.
Good Mother.
To @Good Mother
August 22nd, 2011
4:10 pm
At Toomer’s tumor the PRINCIAPL was implicated. TWO teachers ADMITTED to cheating. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.
Why are your standards so low?
You admit Toomer’s tumor is BAD.
Why is BAD acceptable to you?
Sure, Parks is worse but so what?
ALL of the lying, cheating thieves need to go.
NO cheating is acceptable. No lying is acceptable. No stealing is acceptable!
Anonmom
August 22nd, 2011
4:39 pm
I say — bring on vouchers… bring the money to the lowest common denominator and force all the parents to make decisions about their kids’ educations!
Lynn
August 22nd, 2011
4:49 pm
Many of the transfers are struggling to keep up academically. While they might have been high performing students at their home school, the new school in the case I am aware of has much greater rigor. Transfers who had easy As at the home school are struggling for a C at the new school.
The testing results are dragging down the receiving the school. If the transfers don’t have a great impact on achievement, they need to be stopped. There is no reason to overcrowd the receiving school and strain resources for everyone.
Dekalb taxpayer
August 22nd, 2011
5:16 pm
A huge problem with the failing schools is discipline. I’m not a teacher but I get the impression that the teachers would like to discipline the disruptive or sleeping students but in many cases the school administration and even (at least during Crawford Lewis’ disastrous reign in Dekalb)the county administration will not back the teachers up for fear of parent lawsuits. So the inmates are basically running the asylum at these schools. I suspect that many parents take advantage of AYP transfers to get their children out of this type of environment. This is a failure of the system.
To Lynn from Good Mother
August 22nd, 2011
5:18 pm
You say the “transfers are struggling to keep up academically. Transfers who had easy As at the home school are struggling for a C at the new school.”
That’s interesting. Do you have any reports or statistics or other data we could look at or do you have some information by observation? For example, perhaps you work in the school and witness the results.
Your claim is at odds with some of the other posters here who say schools are all the same, it’s only the parents who make a difference but you see a “greater rigor” at the so-called better schools.
I woul truly like to know.
To anonmom
August 22nd, 2011
5:19 pm
Anonmom says “I say — bring on vouchers… bring the money to the lowest common denominator and force all the parents to make decisions about their kids’ educations!”
I agree. There HAS to be some competition, some accountability, some impetus to make our schools better.
Every American public school should be a good school.
Dekalb taxpayer
August 22nd, 2011
5:37 pm
To Lynn from Good Mother, my experience with my two children in a so-so public school was that the high-achieving students suffered from a lack of other high achievers in their classes (due to students leaving for private schools and magnet schools). Even in honors classes, the teachers could only go as fast as the students could go so the high achievers were held back, however unintentionally, by the large numbers of lesser prepared or lesser equipped students. So in that sense, AYP transfers MAY affect the education of the students in the receiving schools if the transfers are behind or if they are not as intellectually equipped (though this is certainly not a given).
The dearth of high-achieving students can also affect the class offerings at a school in our experience.
I used to bemoan the magnet system in my county for just this reason; and then I ended up moving my son to a magnet school because I felt as though he was suffering for my “stand” to send my kids to the local school.
@Good Mother-You have the wrong school & the wrong principal!
August 22nd, 2011
5:38 pm
Did you not read my posts? Maybe your teacher’s standards were low. Once again, the principal there for the 2009 CRCT has been gone from Toomer since 7 months after the 2009 CRCT tests were given. Have you got that? Do you understand that that principal is gone, and has been for a while, not just since the CRCT report came out. No, I do not “admit” that Toomer is bad, I said it was bad that there was cheating at Toomer period. My standards are not low, and nor are Toomer’s. Also, you must not be an APS parent, because if you were, then you would know that all the teachers and principals implicated in the CRCT scandal are not in any of the schools and certainly not at Toomer. Toomer has a Mandarin Chinese program where the kids go 5 days aweek, they have very dedicated group of parents working hard to make sure that the children there get a great education during the school day, and great extracurricular activities such as theater, dance, art and even cooking after school at minimal cost to the family. There is a very consistant discipline program in place implemented by the principal, and followed by all staff in the building, so that students know what is expected of them and what the rewards are for good behavior and the punishments are for bad behavior. The teachers, staff, administration and parents have worked together to make a great neighborhood school where students feel welcome and are expected to work to exceed expectations. If you knew anything about Toomer, then you would know that, but obviously, you have never set foot in Toomer, or spoken to a Toomer parent. I don’t know why you feel it necessary to randomly select a school and to make up lies about it and put it down based on no facts, but maybe you should find something more positive to do with your time.
Blog Reader
August 22nd, 2011
6:05 pm
Too bad. Good Mother has taken over another of the “Get Schooled” blogs here, writing long entries and then posting long replies to everyone else. And notice how many times here she doesn’t post her name as “Good Mother,” but only as “@–”? Then at the end of the post is “G.M.” Ranting as usual.
Sick of paying for others' mistakes
August 22nd, 2011
6:42 pm
At the risk of inciting a firestorm of controversy and blistering comments, I’m going to offer the radical notion that a majority of the problems in Georgia education could be fixed if people reproduced more responsibly. Why are there so many single mothers today with not just one, but multiple children for whom they cannot provide? What kind of future can these kids expect? Their mothers must usually forego college or even graduating from high school in order to go to work to support themselves and their children. This means that they get trapped in poverty that is hard to break out of. Yet through their choice not to use birth control or demand that the men they had sex with use birth control, these women have condemned themselves and their children to difficult lives. The men who reproduce with them are even more irresponsible because they not only fail to use birth control, but they often fail to pay child support, too.
These same parents will now want to transfer their children out of their bad neighborhood schools into a better neighborhood school. BUT WHO CHOSE TO SKIP THE CONDOM OR THE PILL AND HAVE THE KIDS IN THE FIRST PLACE? Now and I and other taxpayers who work hard have to pay for the poor choices of irresponsible parents. I had only the number of children my husband and I could afford to feed, clothe, house, and educate according to our income. I am responsible for the child that I brought into the world. Why can’t others be responsible for their own and for their reproductive choices?
I would much rather my tax dollars go toward distributing condoms than building another school in the metro area. Call me callous and racist or whatever will make you feel better, but the bottom line is this: it is the CHILDREN who suffer for the poor choices of their parents. When are we going to start telling people to stop having babies they don’t want, can’t support, and won’t raise to be responsible people themselves? I weep for these children who will be caught up in this endless cycle of povery, and I weep for my own children, who will be taxed to death in order to support this misery.
Lynn
August 22nd, 2011
8:55 pm
@ GM I am inside a school with first hand observation of students who transferred for a variety of reasons. The rigor in the feeder schools and into the high school vary. When students transfer into our school, they are often shocked at the degree of work they must do to receive Bs and Cs. These are students who might have had all As at the former school. The requirements at the former school area so much lower that these students struggle.
That is why I am so against using GPA as an admission criteria. The standards vary so widely across the state that an A at one school is easily a B or C at another. The SAT and ACT are the only objective ways to measure our students for college admissions.
Ole Guy
August 22nd, 2011
9:26 pm
As with much of the legislation which spews from Washington, NCLB was conceived with “horse blinders” firmly in place…what appeared directly in front of the powers that be may have been viewed as a “two dimensional concept”. The “third dimension” of cause and effect/of the potential negative impact, was not envisioned.
As it now stands, NCLB’s only long-term effect upon the educational camp is FAILURE…NCLB, despite all good intentions, has simply set up public education for failure at every twist and turn of the educational journey.
Just look at the new lexicon of education: FAILING SCHOOLS, FAILING TEACHERS, etc. The very concept, forwarded by some self-annointed educational “expert” pronounces “…if the kid failed to learn, the teacher failed to teach…”. ALL these foolish notions simply serve to “take the monkey (of personal responsibility) off the kids’ backs and transfer that monkey elsewhere: BAD TEACHER…BAD SCHOOL…BAD THIS AND BAD THAT. The result…generations with absolutely no intestinal fortitude to “GETERDONE”!
Many will scoff at these truisms; many…themselves completely devoid of the mental toughness we need in this era of global strife, both economic and political…will, despite the “programs” in place to combat ignorance, eventually fall by the wayside. Unfortunately, they will, in all likelihood, bring down many with them.
ANY LEADERS OUT THERE?
As an adult…a so-called SENIOR adult…I am forever grateful to those leaders, of an earlier time, who saw the need for future generations steeped in the sciences and “good graces” of the arts; the need to maintain both physical and mental agility. Those future gens, of which I proudly count myself as a small part, made a lot of mistakes, but we also plowed a lot of new ground…ground which, today, is blythfully trod upon with absolutely no thought as to what it took to get there.
Like blind mice in the corn patch, these younger gens…I rather suspect includes many who share their “wisdom” upon these media…will “feed” contentedly upon the fruits of the past…UNTIL THEY CHOKE IN OVERINDULGENCE.
Anonmom
August 22nd, 2011
9:29 pm
Hey — sick of paying for other’s mistakes — I’m with you — I agree — maybe if the answer wasn’t transferring across town but a “Boys Town” and a “Girls Town” and we had boarding schools at a few campuses around the state — then we could remove the incentives for some what you are describing, get the kids educated and start to break the cycles that seem so hard to break — I agree that birth control needs to be part of the equation — but let’s put the kids into a boarding environment and really break the cycles that they’re in…. just a thought.
Cere
August 22nd, 2011
9:35 pm
Isn’t it interesting that the article says —
“Denise Abdel, a parent in a school that is losing students to No Child Left Behind, is also discouraged.
Her daughter graduated from Lithonia High in the spring. Each year, more kids — usually those with the most involved parents — transfer out, she said. And each year, fewer families participate in events such as homecoming and the “spring fling” garage sale. This year alone, 143 teens — a fifth of the student body — asked to leave.”
If 143 is one fifth of the entire student body, that would mean that Lithonia only had 715 students in total! After the 143 transfer, they will be down to 572. Is that AJC article accurate? What is the enrollment at Lithonia this year?
On the other hand, Lakeside has 1900+. In an attendance zone that probably feed about 1200-1600 tops.
Also, I have to remind everyone that for some, money is a big motivator. AYP transfer students from Title 1 schools (which is most of DeKalb) get a monthly (or now it may be quarterly) check for mileage reimbursement. For TWO round trips a day! So, from Lithonia HS to Lakeside HS, that’s 33 miles round trip X 2 trips per day = 66 miles per day X .51 per mile = $33.66 per day X 20 days per month (avg) = $673.20 — FREE! (Well, take off $50 for a monthly MARTA pass.) There was a family at Dunwoody HS, I’m told, collected this reimbursement for TWO brothers!
One more thing — Isn’t it interesting, that the principal at Lithonia is Angela Moton, former principal at Lakeside HS who was given a $10,000 bonus for being a “highly effective principal” her 2 years at Lakeside! (Has anyone considered asking for that money back, since obviously she has not been quite so highly successful at Lithonia?!)
Really amazed
August 22nd, 2011
10:38 pm
I don’t understand!! Everyone I talk to from public school says their children have straight A’s/4.0’s! I very rarely hear about even a B. Because C’s are the new F’s. We can’t be giving them out. Susie needs an A/b for the hope scholarship!!! Why transfer?? Everyone is passing the crct too!! Georgia sure has a bunch of brainiacs at the local public schools. Transfer, ayp, cheating. NO, not here in GA! Parents are a big factor when it comes to cheating! They demand test retakes and grade inflation! I feel very sorry for you teachers and admin. Damned if you do damned if you don’t! That’s the GA public school system way!
Ernest
August 23rd, 2011
9:12 am
I realized something I should have mentioned earlier, DeKalb did contribute to more students taking advantage of AYP transfers by providing transportation in the early years. It created an expectation that the school system could not afford to continue. I recall some of the public meetings where there was outrage this would be discontinued due to budget shortfalls. There was a drop immediately once this was eliminated. Other school districts did not have a history of providing transportation outside of the home school district so they put the responsibility on the family for getting the student to an AYP receiving school, mileage reimbursement included.
I don’t believe you can ignore the history of student transportation in DeKalb when you consider the high number of AYP transfers.
Anonmom
August 23rd, 2011
9:14 am
Hey Happy Feet — I have to disagree — I had friends on that interview panel — Moton may have been set up to be the most successful candidate during those 2 day long interviews but she interviewed best of the 5 candidates from around the country who interviewed (she may have been given information she shouldn’t have had but she may not have known it). She was set up to fail and came into to a toxic environment that could not handle the fact that she was not white and was not as cheery- and as much of a salesman — as her predecessor. Truth was she was actually supervising teachers who hadn’t seen a supervisor in over a decade and she was making teachers use rubrics for the benefits of the kids — fairly! She was making teachers — who do regularly give out grades which are not As and in a school which has has a requirement that for National Honor Society, honors classes are not weighted, you need a 3.8 and nothing is rounded (the rest of DCSS is either a 3.6 or 3.4)… she sough to make it a fairer place for the kids — she was about the kids and not about the adults who have been running the place for years and who ultimately ran her off. The adults have been running Lakeside to the detriment of the kids for the past 10-15 years. There is nothing at Lakeside that really nurtures kids into thriving teenagers as I think happens as Chamblee (and maybe DHHS and DSA) and as does happen at some of the really fine private schools. The place is all about adults out to get kids and out for themselves (there are some true gems at Lakeside — but they are exceptions in general the Indians runs the show). Moton was about the kids and prejudices couldn’t be hidden.
Dunwoody Mom
August 23rd, 2011
9:33 am
Ernest, you bring up a good point with regards to transportation. We also have to remember that DCSS was under court-ordered desegration (I think many of us remember M-to-M) for many years. “Free” transportation to schools all across this county was standard in DCSS and I think maybe many people still feel it is a “right” they should have?
Anonmom
August 23rd, 2011
10:18 am
Happy Feet — Chelf was responsible for one really awful white math teacher who he then wouldn’t fire (she quit right before he left — mid year right as another went on maternity leave leaving the dept. 2 math teachers short in January/Feb) and he was responsible for some bad Spanish teacher hires. The way “counts” are done and because of AYP transfers, schools like LHS wind up hiring the displaced teachers who are then let go at schools on the south side of town when those schools are down to 500 or kids and LHS has to juggle kids to accommodate trailers and 1900 kids in September/October when the FTE count is done again and schedules are reset — by having a new principal every 2.5 years, the principal can’t lobby to get good teachers in place and get extra points in place in May so LHS gets the unwanted discards in October, kids get shuffled in September/October (just wait — LHS freshmen and sophomores…it’s coming) and the teaching staff is less than ideal because staff has been shuffled –this isn’t and wasn’t Moton’s doing — just as it won’t be Reed’s doing –it’s the nature of the way counts and AYP transfers (kids and faculty) are done and the lack of the ability to lobby to staff the building for anticipated attendance accurately in the spring (contracts generally go out in March and AYP transfers in and out don’t count at that point). Moton, as a minority could have had a much easier time firing the non-performing minority staff/faculty at LHS had she been left in place for just 2 additional years (you need 3 years to really turn over staff… 1 year to get to know staff, 1 year to decide who needs to go and to begin to document and 1 to terminate according to proper legal channels – she was there 2 years). A white guy can’t do it nearly as effectively as she could have done it but the prejudices in the neighborhood couldn’t think that far ahead for the benefit of the academics in the building……
Cere
August 23rd, 2011
11:38 am
Federal law mandates that some kind of transportation be provided to students on an AYP (NCLB/ESEA) transfer from a Title 1 school. They have to provide something – a school bus, a public transportation voucher or mileage reimbursement. This is federal tax money – not property taxes. The school system could offer MARTA passes instead I think. But I’m just saying, there really are people who are motivated by the money.
Problem Child
August 23rd, 2011
12:37 pm
Also, a couple of members on that committee that helped to “choose” Moton decided that public school was no longer an option for their children. They are now at private schools.
Dunwoody Mom
August 23rd, 2011
1:25 pm
Remember that it is required that 20% of the Title 1 funds must be spent on transportation and/or SES.
Cere
August 23rd, 2011
2:28 pm
Amazing that the choice is transportation or tutoring. How do we get the message out that quality tutoring will make much more of an impact? Maybe principals don’t push tutoring since it will just become more work for the principals? They have to set it up don’t they? Just easier to have the squeaky wheels get on a bus across the county every day.
MamaH
August 23rd, 2011
2:29 pm
Has anyone asked the students how they feel about being transferred? Do they feel that they are getting a better education? And what about that new school in DeKalb, Arabia Mountain? Are they full? It was touted as an innovative and challenging magnet school. Just curious.
Tim
August 23rd, 2011
3:51 pm
@ Good Mother. Thanks for the response. I did not mean my comments to be a slight against the media in this particular case. Sorry for my choice of words. In this story, they may not have known this was an option in our state. I am sure most electronic media were given an assignment to cover a quick story about the “failure of some schools”, including the largest ones in the state (Bob Jones in Madison, and I do believe Hoover), and report it as concisely as possible.
Someone passed along the information to us regarding possibly putting our son in a local school we would like for our son to attend but don’t live in that district. We finally decided to leave him, for this year, in the private school, despite my concerns that the church taking over does not have the same lofty standards previously held. This was a small school with the northern half of the state’s only merit scholar finalist, and a 7th grade class that had scored 10th/11th grade level on the Stanford.
Georgia is close to our hearts. We have lived in Athens past summers while I taught in a special program over there.
To those who say, “stop the transfers”, I ask you if you would feel the same if your child was in one of these failing schools and you wanted the best for your child?
Cere
August 23rd, 2011
4:47 pm
I guess it’s all akin to the starfish story. Instead of fixing what ails the system, we randomly pick up a few ’starfish’ here and there and toss them a life line. Good for some. Bad for most. I think the idea of NCLB was for school systems to fix the ailing schools, while opening an escape hatch for those that want out. Part 1 of that plan doesn’t seem to have made it to the action list.
Ernest
August 23rd, 2011
6:11 pm
“Free” transportation to schools all across this county was standard in DCSS and I think maybe many people still feel it is a “right” they should have?
Well said, Dunwoody Mom! That mentality gets to the point of my first post. I mentioned before that I met folks in my community several years ago that wondered why M to M was eliminated (the obvious answer about the lawsuit being settled was not considered). I politely pointed out that was was the Minority is now the Majority and vice versa thus eliminating the need for this antiquated remedy. It probably won’t surprise you that I heard a few choice words by saying that.
Offering MARTA passes is not a solution because not all schools are located near the MARTA line. This introduces a safety concern for students. While the district may have been compensated for mileage, they probably were not compensated for bus maintenance and operations along with salaries for bus drivers. That left mileage reimbursements for motivated parents that wanted to leverage the transfer option.
It would be interesting to see how Gwinnett handles AYP transfer requests. I will ’speculate’ they offered receiving schools that might be a challenge to get to thus not really providing a ‘choice’ but to take advantage of tutoring services. I still say changing the legislation to only allow the impacted subgroup to leverage AYP transfers would be the best remedy.
MamaH
August 24th, 2011
2:35 pm
@Ernest – I think you hit on an idea that should be SOP. The superintendents of all of these metro systems all face this issue as well as others and you would think it would be in the best interest of all to meet, compare notes, and see what is working for them and what is not. I believe that the kids are harmed by transfering them out of their neighborhoods, instead the money is better spent equiping the schools with what they need.
David Sims
August 24th, 2011
7:28 pm
Uh, I’m going to assume that “Druid Hills High School in DeKalb” isn’t located in the same place as the Druid Hills – Atlanta Botanical Garden – Emory University neighborhood in Atlanta. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
MamaH
August 25th, 2011
2:51 pm
Druid Hills High School is right next to part of the Emory Campus.
Anonmom
August 25th, 2011
3:54 pm
Although they’ve set up an “annex” for Druid Hills at Avodale HS…..