The real STEM crisis in education: “We lose 25,000 math and science teachers each year.”
Richard Ingersoll (UPenn)
At researcher Richard Ingersoll’s Ivy League university, there’s no undergraduate degree in education.
“Very few undergrads at Penn want to do it,” said the University of Pennsylvania professor of education and sociology who once taught at the University of Georgia. “Most want to do law, medicine, business, or veterinary school.”
A former high school teacher turned academic, Ingersoll has more than a passing interest in whether students choose teaching careers. He is one of the nation’s foremost experts on teacher turnover, and he fears that one-sided accountability measures drive good people out of the profession and deter promising candidates from entering it.
He cites the misinformation on the shortage of math and science teachers. In a given year, the United States produces four times as many new math and science teachers as leave the classroom due to retirements, Ingersoll said.
So, while he applauds President Obama’s plan to add 100,000 new science and math teachers over a decade, Ingersoll said, “We lose 25,000 math and science teachers each year.” Of that number, he said only 7,000 are due to retirement. He does not believe that incentives — performance pay or bonuses — are enough of a carrot to reverse the trend.
As two recent studies suggest, paying teachers bonuses doesn’t appear to lead to higher student achievement. Yes, teachers would love a $1,500 performance bonus for meeting targets, but a new RAND study out of New York and a National Center on Performance Incentives at Vanderbilt University last year out of Nashville both found that many teachers are already pedaling as fast as they can under new accountability systems and the bonuses appear to have no impact on student achievement.
“We tested the most basic and foundational question related to performance incentives — does bonus pay alone improve student outcomes? — and we found that it does not,” said Matthew Springer, executive director of the National Center on Performance Incentives.
The RAND study was commissioned by New York City, which wanted to find out if $56 million in performance bonuses to school staffs over the last three years improved student performance. The finding: No improvement.
What teachers want most, Ingersoll said, is to be regarded as professionals and valued for their judgment, their intellect and their ability to think on their feet and problem-solve.
On scales of motivation, teachers and nurses are the highest for wanting to do good with their lives rather than earn a lot of money.
As one teacher noted here on the blog, “We not only buy school supplies for students (pencils, paper, etc.), but we also must buy classroom supplies (white board markers, copy paper, etc.). Can you just imagine if employees of Coca-Cola were asked to purchase their own copy paper and pens and paper clips?”
Ingersoll understands the common-sense appeal of merit pay and performance bonuses, and why Obama and U.S. education Secretary Arne Duncan are such proponents. As a young high school teacher, it annoyed him that his colleague in the next classroom read the newspaper all day while he was up until midnight each night preparing lessons. “Yet, he was making more than me because he had been there longer,” he said.
“We all know that some teachers are better than others, and there do seem to be some teachers who are not working very hard. Then, we find out they are all being paid the same,” he said. The problem is that we haven’t devised a good way to fairly and objectively judge the most effective teachers and separate out what a teacher brings to the student performance equation.
Ingersoll hoped that the new science of value-added measures — using student growth as measured by tests to analyze how much a teacher advanced the learning of each individual student — would offer a reliable yardstick. But he is wary now because of the rising doubts of statisticians about the reliability of value-added data and studies showing that a large proportion of teachers who rate highly one year tumble to the bottom the next.
“That raises a real monkey wrench in our belief that a good teacher is a good teacher and a bad teacher is a bad teacher when you have that drop from the top quintile to the bottom in one year,” he said.
(“Some of my fellow professors are very zealous about value-added measures,” added Ingersoll, “until I say ‘What about using it for us in higher education?’ Then, there is ominous silence in the room.” )
Ingersoll sees greater potential in Denver’s performance pay system, crafted by teachers and administrators, that incorporates 10 weights to assess success, such as pursuing professional development, working in a high-needs school, receiving a glowing evaluation and raising test scores.
But Ingersoll said no performance pay system can work if we don’t address the deprofessionalization of teaching, citing his own research that teachers in virtually all states report less of a role in decisions about textbooks, content and grading —all of which are integral to their jobs and for which they ought to be consulted.
“The whole accountability regime tends to be a top-down thing that hasn’t included teachers. It violates basic management principles — you can’t hold employees responsible for things that they don’t have any control over or don’t have the tools to do,” he said.
“If you give people autonomy and tools and don’t hold them accountable, then you get corruption,” said Ingersoll. “If you hold them accountable and don’t give them autonomy and tools, then you drive employees out — the best ones first.”
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get School blog
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84 comments Add your comment
thomas
July 22nd, 2011
2:12 pm
Why don’t we have more of these common sense people in charge of our education system?
catlady
July 22nd, 2011
2:16 pm
My younger daughter would be a great high school science/math teacher. However, she has no interest in the disrespect teachers incur, both from their supervisors, the students, and the parents. Too bad she could probably never find a teaching situation that would allow her to excite her students about math and physics, but provide the perogatives a professional expects/requires. Math/science people have other options where they WILL be treated professionally.
X - science teacher
July 22nd, 2011
2:16 pm
Yup….he’s got that right. I’ve moved on even though I loved teaching science. Can’t stomach it any longer after watching my engineer husband being treated like a professional. He can’t believe the stories I would come home with. And now ….out of teaching and won’t go back.
Teacher Reader
July 22nd, 2011
2:27 pm
Smart young people don’t want to become teachers, because they realize that teachers have a great deal of responsibility without any authority or ability to make changes that would positively effect the quality of education that the children in front of them receive. I don’t blame them, it’s why I left teaching, and won’t go back under the current circumstances of teachers being held accountable for all learning and administrators, students, and parents are accountable for little or nothing.
Scott
July 22nd, 2011
2:32 pm
Good, sensible article. I concur. We lose good teachers due to mismanagement and a ridiculous work environment, where good people are held accountable for things beyond their control despite their best efforts. And it does unfortunately lead to corruption. Because no one is holding the administrators, parents, and students accountable to do their part.
Jerry Eads
July 22nd, 2011
2:45 pm
Well done, Maureen. Now, can you imagine what will happen with the radical increase in AYP “failures”?
no mas
July 22nd, 2011
2:45 pm
My daughter, a college senior, has wanted to be an elementary grades teacher since she was 5. She has worked for after-school programs where she (on her own) brought in materials for science and art lessons, so I believe she would be a good one.
However, she has not taken any education courses in college, instead majoring in counseling psychology and sociology. Her plan is to immediately go into Montessori training when she graduates, and enter the teaching profession that way – she says she doesn’t want to have to contend with the documentation and disrespect she has seen teachers have to put up with in public school. She has had a chance to observe private school teachers at length and has seen the difference in how they are treated – as professionals.
Digger
July 22nd, 2011
2:48 pm
If you’re dumb, then you’re REALLY gonna be dumb in Math. That translates to frustration and then behavioral problems.Certain elements of our population are over-represented in this category. No decent Math/Science teacher will put up with the disrespect that follows.
Active in Cherokee
July 22nd, 2011
2:51 pm
Thank you for sharing the article – Dr. Ingersoll’s quotes and research make perfect sense (seems funny how sometimes we spend millions of dollars on studies to simply support common sense ideas). I especially like the final two quotes concerning accountability vs corruption. Best of luck to all of the teachers starting pre-planning next week in Cherokee and other systems/schools on a similar calendar.
tim
July 22nd, 2011
3:07 pm
Years ago, teachers taught and students learned. Teachers didn’t leave and 98% of students passed.
It wasn’t broke…..so who’s the idiot who tried to fix it????
Jordan Kohanim
July 22nd, 2011
3:18 pm
Passed on by a colleague and follows the same lines: http://www.salon.com/news/david_sirota/2011/07/18/tony_wagner_finland
“Not the highest paid, but the most highly esteemed. Only one out of every 10 people who apply to become teachers will ultimately make it to the classroom. The consequence has been that Finland’s performance on international assessments, called PISA, have consistently outranked every other western country, and really there are only a handful of eastern countries that are educating with the same results.”
“There is no domestic testing except a very quiet auditing program to test demographic samples of kids; not for accountability, not for public consumption, and not for comparison across schools. The fascinating thing is that because they have created such a high level of professionalism, they can trust their teachers. Their motto is “Trust Through Professionalism.” The difference between the highest performing school in Finland and the lowest performing school in Finland is less than four percent, and that’s without any testing at all.”
SallyB
July 22nd, 2011
3:19 pm
It’s not just Math/Science.
Several years ago , we at our middle school were so excited when an AJC reporter decided she wanted to teach [ Language Arts ] and was assigned to our school.
She was a lovely person and enthusiastic and tireless teacher and colleague. However, she only lasted ’til Christmas .
The teachers on her team tried to help keep her afloat, but said she was just overwhelmed with the disrespect from both students and administration, by all the busy paperwork, as well as the expectation by the system that if a student was not achieving, it was her fault.
Would any off you advise your child to enter the lottery of the teaching profession [public school ..K-12.. ] today?
FCM
July 22nd, 2011
3:21 pm
“Smart young people don’t want to become teachers, because they realize that teachers have a great deal of responsibility without any authority or ability to make changes that would positively effect the quality of education that the children in front of them receive.”
AMEN
Observation
July 22nd, 2011
3:23 pm
This general disrespect for public school teachers, the “deprofessionalization of teaching,” can readily be seen by reading the blogs of the last week or so here on “Get Schooled.” As I’ve read their posts, it’s seemed that all teachers (not just those of the APS) were fair game for some who seem to have had REALLY bad experiences in school…many of them apparently still in school. It became painful to read, esp. when some educators were riled enough to try to reason in long replying posts.
So far, THIS thread has been supportive of educators, but I am just waiting for the first nasty jerk who has a bad job without security or retirement possibilities to start the mud-bath.
Atlanta mom
July 22nd, 2011
3:25 pm
tim,
Years ago women didn’t have a lot of choice in terms of a career. Most women did not go to college, and those that did went into education (not all, but lots.) We now have many more women in college, and they can be anything they want to be. And they want to be respected.
catlady
July 22nd, 2011
3:28 pm
tim, I am not sure when your years ago was, but when I was young (1950s) one of the differences was behavior problems were handled. If children were out of control, they were removed from school. Kids were given the opportunity to show they could “cut it” academically, and if they were too “low,” they went to special schools or they stayed home and learned whatever their parents could teach them. Teachers were respected as professionals.
What has happened in the intervening years is that the work of schools has expanded by the hundreds of “missions.” Teachers cannot teach because they are trying to fulfill all these other expectations.
DexterJenkins
July 22nd, 2011
3:29 pm
Our problem is you have always had to put an adult in front of those kids…if they are qualified or not. Now people need work and our attitude of putting “anyone who will take the job” has caught up to us. I have always laughed at people who want to fire teachers. Let them find others who will do it. And don’t tell me “They only work blah blah blah for XXXXX a year.” No one wanted to pay teachers more when the economy was great.
atlmom
July 22nd, 2011
3:30 pm
it’s the micromanaging that doesn’t work! evaluating teachers on how they may have ‘increased the knowledge’ of these particular students? wow, anyone who knows anything about stats will tell you how flawed that is.
in addition – you can’t force kids to learn. okay – there are some – a very tiny tiny number – of teachers who can, but most can’t. you can’t force kids to do much of anything, especially when the parents don’t care…
Atlanta mom
July 22nd, 2011
3:32 pm
We all know who the good teachers are. The students, the parents, the teachers and the principals all know who they are. They are not necessarily the “easy A” or the friendliest. Seems to me there should be a bonus each year that is distributed based on “goodness”. Maybe a committee (principal, lead teacher, throw in a few other folks)determines who gets what. Yes, it you get on the wrong side of some folks, you don’t get the bonus. Same as the real world. You get on the wrong side of folks, you go somewhere else to work, same as the real world.
atlmom
July 22nd, 2011
3:35 pm
all true comments above!
there is a HUGE difference between the US and finland. part of the issues here is that we are a LARGE country. we have a VERY diverse population.
and we can’t be mandating education from our federal govt. it doesn’t work.
it would be nice to have federal standards. then leave the states/localities to figure out how to do it. don’t give out money on the federal level (makes NO sense). and give out ideas and standards,and maybe some ideas for how – but let teachers do the how. LESS micromanaging…it doesn’t work (did i say that already?).
Jordan Kohanim
July 22nd, 2011
3:43 pm
Observation,
Well said
Ashley
July 22nd, 2011
3:51 pm
With NASA laying off many of their employees some of whom are well-versed in science and math the problem could be solved if it were not for two things , the paultry pay and the lack of respect that goes with the job of teaching. Unfortunately my expertise is history and no one cares about that.
Lee
July 22nd, 2011
3:57 pm
“He cites the misinformation on the shortage of math and science teachers. In a given year, the United States produces four times as many new math and science teachers as leave the classroom due to retirements, Ingersoll said. “We lose 25,000 math and science teachers each year.” Of that number, he said only 7,000 are due to retirement.”
So, if the US produces 4*7000=28000 math and science teachers and lose 25000 each year, it sounds to me like we are gaining 3000 each year.
How many TOTAL do we need because I’m not seeing the crisis with these numbers?
A Conservative Voice
July 22nd, 2011
4:02 pm
The USDOE has ruined our educational system with their ridiculous programs which have been crammed down our throats like obamacare. Folks, States Rights is the only answer……it’s the only thing that’s gonna work. OK, go ahead……..
still love to teach...
July 22nd, 2011
4:03 pm
Wow! Can someone send this to the powers that be? This is stated so simply and makes perfect sense, but would anyone listen or act without years of data and research?
Ow!
July 22nd, 2011
4:06 pm
Here are some words for consideration:
Double. A hard-core STEM type will likely earn double what a teacher makes.
Half. That non-teaching job that they go to? Half as hard as being a teacher, almost certainly with fewer hours to work than first year teachers do.
Professional. In the above, unnamed STEM job that isn’t teaching, even novices will be nurtured and treated with respect. As they gain experience, they will be treated, and compensated, like respected professionals.
And one number to consider: 44. As of this writing, that’s how many mathematics openings there are posted at TeachGeorgia.org. School starts in what, 2 or 3 weeks?
So, the current math/science teacher shortage? Get used to it. It was here 10 years ago, and it will be prevalent 10 years from now.
The intersection of people who
have the STEM content knowledge
AND
can master the classroom management
AND
will accept the administration abuse
AND
will settle for lousy pay
will continue to be a very small set.
Butler9
July 22nd, 2011
4:09 pm
I’ve made similar comments to this effect, but I’ve been visiting friends in Hungary since April and have had the privilege to visit several public secondary school classes. During these visits I have also had the satisfaction of seeing students respectully get to their feet upon the teacher’s entrance into the classroom.
Some things never get old.
Former Middle School Teacher
July 22nd, 2011
4:12 pm
@A Conservative Voice; the South lost the Civil War the states rights issued died along with the Confederacy. Secondly, Obamacare as you call it has nothing to do with education.
DeKalb parent
July 22nd, 2011
4:14 pm
Isn’t the use of scripted teaching materials like America’s Choice products the perfect example of “deprofessionalism?” These seem to suppress all creativity and I can’t imagine a teacher being forced to use them will become an inspired teacher. And this translates into bored students.
Centrist
July 22nd, 2011
4:29 pm
We have inefficient/expensive top heavy administrations that grind out more administrative work for teachers who have less autonomy, and we have teacher unions who protect the lazy and unqualified. Students are not punished enough for being disrespectful, and coddling uninvolved parents gum up the works. The good teachers we see are islands in the churning sea of mediocrity.
Wondering
July 22nd, 2011
4:43 pm
I wanted to teach Math and coach. I graduated and realized that even with a coaching supplement I would make more than twice as much as a computer programmer. Multiply that over a 30+ year career and I didn’t see much of a choice, and yes, I could do the math.
Over my career I met many people that made similar choices. Even if I was disrepected on the job, the money was better and I could change jobs at will. My bosses either treated me right or I moved on to the next job.
I respect teachers for what they do, and I believe this article points to a major issue with our system. Another is the insistence by some to have purely objective measures for teachers. This rarely works in industry, but my teaching friends used to demand it because they believed the administration was out to get them. Now that they have an objective (but false) measure, they are certain our elected officials are out to get them.
MB
July 22nd, 2011
4:43 pm
Here’s a story about a teacher who has a 100% pass rate on AP Calc and is leaving her job because she’s only making $38K – after 13 years in the classroom. http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/07/20/why.quit.teacher/index.html?is_LR=1
(Warning: reading the comments may make you crazy. Obviously some of those folks slept through critical reading – or maybe just listened enough to pass the CRCT. And since we have to spend so much time on test prep, prepare for the demise of critical thinking as evidenced in some of the posts…)
dc
July 22nd, 2011
4:47 pm
As a young high school teacher, it annoyed him that his colleague in the next classroom read the newspaper all day while he was up until midnight each night preparing lessons. “Yet, he was making more than me because he had been there longer,” he said………
That’s what drove my wife out of teaching (a professional hire, with degree from Tech and many years in business/technology). Each semester, her classes would fill up with students whose parents asked that they be moved into her class… and the bad teachers got lighter workload, while making more money. That is one of the top 3 dis-incentives for keeping good teachers, and must be solved.
A Conservative Voice
July 22nd, 2011
4:48 pm
@Former Middle School Teacher
July 22nd, 2011
4:12 pm
@A Conservative Voice; the South lost the Civil War the states rights issued died along with the Confederacy. Secondly, Obamacare as you call it has nothing to do with education.
Didn’t say it did, but it was crammed down our throats. And you’re wrong, States Rights will be an issue again……
Wondering
July 22nd, 2011
4:49 pm
I don’t buy the ‘blame it on the union’ crap. I have managed union shops and due process shops with dozens of professionals. It was easy to get rid of the non-performers. It was also easy to identify them.
The real issue is when management doesn’t do the job because they are not competent to manage. They may have been good in staff positions but now they’re Peter Principled. The good employees leave because they can and they don’t feel appreciated. The bad employees stay because they can’t find another job anyway. Productivity goes down because there’s no one competent left to do the work.
Sorry I can’t stay longer but I need to finish writing my staff reviews and I like to keep my weekends free.
.
atlmom
July 22nd, 2011
4:53 pm
yes, hungary, finland, all sorts of countries are doing well in the education department (people from all over the world still come here, for the time being, for college, though).
ALL of those countries have a well defined population, and there’s also a reason they are not the superpowers (today, at least).
They have a homogeneous population. They have a homogeneous culture. they have homogeneous ideals and mores. We in the US do not. We have vastly different cultures all over the country. THAT is why state’s rights makes A LOT of sense. Each state has a VERY different population (i mean, you can *say* that north carolina and GA are the ’same’ because we are both in the south, but we are VERY different states, with very different cultures, actually).
So – unless you want a china like education system – and government – we ARE NOT like another country in the world. And so our education system can’t be compared to others (same with any other ’system’ we have, health care, how we deal with child care, how we deal with oh, almost ANYTHING).
MB
July 22nd, 2011
4:58 pm
Several illusions here to “going elsewhere.” Unfortunately, in education that may be harder than in other jobs. If you’re in a smaller town, there will be fewer opportunities to move. (Quite possibly you will be in the only middle or high school.) In our larger metro system, for example, you may only apply for a transfer after two years at a school. If your principal needs you – even if you are miserable – they can effectively blackball you and you won’t be able to move. No win situation, and another one of the reasons almost half of teachers leave within 5 years…
Do you notice how many people have already – directly or indirectly – referenced poor administrators? MAJOR problem – and I don’t see how in the world this new evaluation system is going to work in some schools where administration is weak, weak, weak…
atlmom
July 22nd, 2011
5:00 pm
and therein lies the problem – or much of it – is salary. double the salaries of the teachers. and fire 1/2 the administrators. simple. easy peasy.
MB
July 22nd, 2011
5:00 pm
On the same page with the CNN article on the AP Calc teacher leaving? An article on the average salary of a WalMart manager http://tinyurl.com/WMmanagesalary (avg. about $179k, salary and bonus, if you’re interested only in the bottom line.)
atlmom
July 22nd, 2011
5:02 pm
MB: but one could move to a private school. or leave teaching. if one is proficient in math/science one could easily train for a new career in STEM. there’s a shortage in industry as well.
Butler9
July 22nd, 2011
5:12 pm
Maybe, ‘atlmom’, but shouldn’t respect for teachers be universal — cutting across all ethnic and economic divisions? At one time in this country’s history we sought and adopted the best that every assimilating culture had to offer. That’s what made us great. Today, on the other hand, we allow our standards to be lowered to the worst that each has to offer. That shift in attitude has led to our decline into mediocrity.
It’s painful to witness.
atlmom
July 22nd, 2011
5:17 pm
butler: oh, I’m in total and complete agreement with you. We teach our children to listen to the teacher. period. they are an adult, and they are their teacher, and that is that. there is no ‘oh, no dear, you poor thing, the teacher wasn’t nice to you today?’ not in my house.
I totally and completely agree with you. Part of the issue, in my opinion is that we don’t pay the teachers much. we actually encourage the teachers not to teach, partially because we pay administrators so much. so people would prefer those jobs given the salaries (i almost wrote: the best and brightest go there, but judging from the comments here, that isn’t the case).
It’s a terrible issue. i mean, seriously – some people only teach and put their 20 years in – then get a crazy generous pension for however many years afterwards. it’s really absurd…if you would just pay teachers most of that money then you’d be better off…but we don’t.
And again, if you paid more, you’d get better teachers, but only for so long. we hear about the horrible conditions teachers endure. and one would only endure that for so long before going back to industry, from what i understand. if we let teachers teach – they would be happier, and they would do a better job.
It’s such a mess.
and, the education system is just a symptom of a whole lot of other things in our society. but it’s glaring.
Miss the Magnet
July 22nd, 2011
5:40 pm
One question comes to mind, why does there even need to be an undergraduate in education particularly for high school level math and science teachers. Having very good content knowledge with more confidence on the material, how to extend the classroom standards into day to day life/current research and applications is invaluable in instilling the classroom with a positive atmosphere. The nuts and bolts of pedagogy can be taught after there is real content knowledge. The problem with the weakest teachers in math in science is that they know pedagogy but only have a weak understanding of the content they are asked to teach. They do not stretch themselves and consequently their students to go beyond the minimum.
As for the bonus pay incentives. The study was looking at student test outcomes ( again a standard not without some very obvious problems in terms of reliable indicators) but how does bonus pay for math and science help KEEP teachers in the classroom. Teacher retention is a serious problem and math and science teachers arguably have skill sets that are more marketable outside the classroom than a history or English teacher.
I think all teachers need to be treated with greater respect.
mountain man
July 22nd, 2011
5:41 pm
If a young person asked my advice about pursuing a teaching career, I would say don’t do it. I once thought about becoming a science teacher but decided I could not take the administative nightmares. Accountability with no authority! You have to get your students to learn the material, but you can’t make them even show up for class. If they are disruptive, you send them to the principal’s office, and he/she sends them right back to your classroom. I di end up teaching adult education for a while and loved it and was told I was a good teacher, but I will never teach in a public school setting.
Respect2
July 22nd, 2011
5:42 pm
Absolutely true–bonuses do not work!!! However, when an individual in Georgia holds several Masters degrees and/or a Specialist or doctorate–respect and being treated as a professional is key. Why are teachers still signing-in when they attend meetings? Can you imagine this occurring in the world of business? Why are teachers held responsible, according to No Child Left Behind, as to the attendance of a child. Isn’t that the responsibility of parents.? And, please don’t get me started on the subject of parents…where are they? They only visit the school when their child is failing or going into some form of suspension. RESPECT!!! That is what will keep educators in the classroom with a salary that is equivalent to the real world. and their high level education. Respect Our Educators!!!
MB
July 22nd, 2011
6:17 pm
I meant allusion – but guess it’s also illusion in a way…
@atlmom – granted one with math/science might likely work elsewhere, but recruitment and retention of STEM teachers is the issue, right? And private schools are often much less attractive in salary and (especially) benefits, particularly private schools other than the very elite.
And as for administrators, many of them are either burned out or never intended to spend any more time than the minimum in the classroom anyway. Effectiveness varies WIDELY. Case in point:
My nephew taught middle school science for two years. Great feedback in year one; moved to a different grade in year 2. No observations entire first semester of year 2; assume no problems, correct?. Second semester of year 2, as budget cuts approached, admin came in his classroom twice in quick succession. Principal sent him a message on a Friday near lunch to come to his office between classes. Told him he had until 4pm to turn in his resignation or his file would show a non-renewal, which was a “negative.” (They were cutting one subject teacher at each grade level, but a resignation would mean they didn’t have unemployment claims.)
When he went back at 4 to resign (he rescinded that on Monday after getting other information), the principal told him he should have used more worksheets in his classes (rather than the hands-on activities he’d done).
Nephew took a year off, thinking he’d never teach again. (Planning to go to PA school.) Then he met a girl….and realized he needed to have a real salary and save some money for PA degree. So he went back to teaching middle school science. In his new school (also Title 1), his admin has already had people from county office come in to see what he’s doing with his classes with technology. (Second is a much larger school system, too.)
Luckily, he went back (if only for a few more years). Many don’t – and often it’s because of these &*%_* administrators who will keep the sorry teachers who don’t make waves…
Peaches Tee
July 22nd, 2011
6:35 pm
This article has many valid points, and many of you know what this is all about. There are many factors involve in the success of a teacher. What makes a great teacher? One administrator may consider a teacher good, but another adminstrator may see problems with the teacher. One year a teacher may have a great class, test scores are good, and the next year she may have a class that’s not up to par. Are we going to expect the same results from the previous year? Is it fair to base the pay on those results? Do we accuse the teacher who taught them the year before? These are some of the issues that will occur with performance pay. It seems that some adminstrators have teachers they like better than others.
One of the fairest ways to have performance pay is to test the students the very first day they step into a classroom. Have the results back within a reasonable period. Allow teachers to teach according to the strengths and weaknesses of the students, which is meeting each students need individually. Test them near the end of the school year and look at growth. Then, we need to documents which students have had conflicts within the year, such as death of love one, sickness, divorce etc. Doesn’t that make sense? There too many issues teachers have to deal.
Georgia Coach
July 22nd, 2011
6:45 pm
Now we have switched to administrator bashing. Guess what. Many teachers who are held accountable for poor performance immediately begin pointing fingers at their evaluators. Some teachers refuse to accept responsibility for their own performance and work habits and refuse to improve. These individuals need to be removed.
Georgia will be creating a teacher induction program in the next few years. If properly implemented this has the potential to improve working conditions, and in turn, student achievement.
Struggling Teacher
July 22nd, 2011
7:46 pm
The single most important profession in the United States and look how it’s treated! This is so wrong! Poor teachers should certainly be aided or terminated, but as a rule it’s not the poor teachers who are leaving teaching so readily. The ones who stay are the ones who endure the buffets and blows of all those who blame the classroom teacher for everything. This is ridiculous. Is anyone anywhere listening? or is it simply going to be true that nobody on the outside of education really cares? It’s time for teachers to stand up for themselves and their students and not kow-tow to anymore ridiculous mandates! We who teach still believe we can make a difference. We need to be allowed to do just that!
98%???
July 22nd, 2011
7:51 pm
@ tim,
where and when? I don’t think there has ever been a time in this country when 98% of students passed… Too many politicians think like you and come up with the NCLB.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta
July 22nd, 2011
8:33 pm
Struggling Teacher,
You correctly assert, “Look how badly we teachers are treated.” Please let me your sentiment.
I counter, “Look how badly we teachers allow ourselves to be treated.”
If you are a teacher and don’t like the way you’re treated, do something about it. And whining on an AJC blog doesn’t constitute “doing something about it.”
For starters, get MACE. I did.
Go to the MACE website: http://www.theteachersadvocate.com.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta
July 22nd, 2011
8:34 pm
OOPS: Please let me reform your sentiment.
dekalbite
July 22nd, 2011
8:54 pm
Teachers leaving the teaching profession in droves may be bad for students, but it’s not necessarily bad for teachers. My 90+ year old mom was a Registered Nurse for many years – well – you know it was a long time ago. Her mom was a teacher, my sister and I were teachers, and both her grandchildren are teachers (one math and one science) so she had heard/hears a lot of complaining about the lack of respect and compensation for teachers today.
My mom maintains that teaching is going through the same upheaval nursing went through about 20 to 30 years ago. Nurses were poorly paid and didn’t command a lot of respect as they were asked to take on greater and greater responsibilities due to the changing nature of the medical industry. They left the nursing field in droves. Soon there was a tremendous nursing crisis. But it was too late. They were gone and found out there were greener pastures. As a result, nursing pay was raised substantially, flexible hours were created to attract people to the nursing field, etc. The days when my mother as a nurse and expected to work 10 hours a day 6 days a week for low pay (most of you are too young to remember that) rapidly disappeared.
So as teachers leave the field, a million teachers retire in the near future, and the economy recovers, we will see a teaching crisis on par with the nursing crisis of 20 years ago. To attract teachers, their pay will rise and much of the pressures that we see today will be gone.
Now that’s what my 90+ year old mom says. She says, “I saw it happen in nursing, and it will happen in teaching.” At her age, she takes the long view of life.
atlmom
July 22nd, 2011
8:54 pm
mb: clearly salary is only part of it. but the salaries are way too low. of course, the administration stuff is also horrible. what’s the answer? one answer is better pay. but that’s only a small part of it.
atlmom
July 22nd, 2011
8:57 pm
dekalbite: that is incredibly interesting. possibly quite true. wouldn’t be surprising…given that nursing and teaching are those professions that were open to women, when they had no other choices.
the difference is that nursing was mostly for companies that can change, whereas teaching is mostly in public institutions (that are clearly not working).
William Casey
July 22nd, 2011
9:17 pm
I’m in the same boat as catlady and wondering. My son’s doing a double degree program in Mathematics and Philosophy at Georgia Southern. Takes overloads every semester maintaining a 3.7 GPA. Works for the university tutoring freshmen in math. Not very materialistic. Could coach basketball. Most importantly for a teacher, he’s articulate and concise in the use of the English language. Would he consider teaching in a Georgia secondary school at twice the going rate? Doubtful. He saw up-close-and-personal how good teachers are disrespected. And, he has the one character flaw that many math/science guys share: he does not suffer fools gladly.
Atlanta crim(e) teacher
July 22nd, 2011
10:23 pm
Try and teach at a school like crime high school. The students are the worse people in America
Atlanta crim(e) teacher
July 22nd, 2011
10:24 pm
Yeah its crime not crim
peeved
July 22nd, 2011
11:11 pm
I know of 2 math specialist teachers in Cherokee County that have been moved into non-math classes. They are ready to walk away from 20+ years of teaching each. I guess the budget is more important than having qualified teachers in the classroom.
Ole Guy
July 23rd, 2011
12:58 am
What’s gonna happen…in the long run?
Many…no, make that ALL…of the marvels we enjoy today are derived from the ” early days” of technological research. The Manhaten Project, precursor to the Atomic Bomb which gave us many of the post-world war two freedoms, was possible only for the hundreds of thousands of twenty-somethings who “knew their math; who knew their science” only because they had received high school and college educations which actually meant something. Ditto the hundreds of thousands…many my generational peers…who made possible the first floundering efforts of the Man In Space Program, known as Project Mercury, and the follow-on programs we have come to know as Gemni, Appolo, and the recently retired Space Shuttle.
While many may or may not agree with the wisdom of the huge expenditures of these efforts…and many yet may or may not agree with my constant “pining” for days past; a period of time when we, the Red White and Blue, stood for achievements of substance, NO ONE can refute the direct relationships of previous generations who were, somehow, able to master the mysteries of math and science, and the wonderful technological “toys” we enjoy to this very day. Yet, somehow, we have, upon us, a generation…make that generations…whose only legacy just may be “CAN’T”.
The mathematical disciplines, as well as those of the science applications, have ALWAYS been tough; have NEVER been easy. If they ever were, this Nation would have never left the gate of the global race to civilization advancement. Now, all of a sudden, the educational community seems quite content to simply swoon and gasp “POOR POOR CHILDREN”! They can’t grasp the complexities of arithmetic 1, 2, and 3. DO YOU, THE EDUCATIONAL COMMUNITY, REALIZE HOW DAMN REDICULOUS THAT IS? You’re not suppose to rub the wee wittle ones on the fanny and ask “where does it hurt”? YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO SET STANDARDS AND DEMAND RESULTS. Otherwise, this Country is going to (if it hasen’t already) revert to third world status being pushed around by every two-bit a _ _ h _ le who sees an easy target populated by generations of “CAN’Ts”.
Butler9
July 23rd, 2011
7:26 am
On the ‘meet the teacher’ day each year just proceeding the start of classes, I told my now-adult son’s teachers in his presence to more-or-less do whatever it takes to keep him in line, maintain discipline, etc. I told them I would fully support that effort. Perhaps I’m just fortunate that my statement of support for them was never put to an uncomfortable test. All I know is that no serious discipline problems were ever brought to my attention. And he was just a normal kid — not an angel by any measure.
Of course, maybe it also helped that I served as a mentor to young boys in his schools for eight of his twelve years, chaperoned class trips, had lunch at school with him and his classmates, and so on. Any man who has had and taken the opportunity to do those things knows very well the high degree of appreciation that is shown him by teachers, administrators, and other parents who hang around the school. I only stopped doing it when my son no longer considered it ‘cool’ for me to be seen around the school (which, fortunately, was about the same time that I was on the verge of becoming burned out by the involvement).
Obviously not everyone is in the position to be able to devote so much hands-on time in support of our schools. But every parent can support their children’s teachers by giving them the benefit of the doubt in disciplinary matters, by making the greatest possible effort to ensure that their kids show up everyday, by talking to their kids about their day at school, and taking a sincere interest in their education. Maybe I’m old-fashioned or something, but that doesn’t seem to be too much to ask of any parent.
sloboffthestreet
July 23rd, 2011
8:54 am
A poster made a very astute OBSERVATION, and it wasn’t OBSERVATION. Go figure?
“Now we have switched to administrator bashing. Guess what. Many teachers who are held accountable for poor performance immediately begin pointing fingers at their evaluators. Some teachers refuse to accept responsibility for their own performance and work habits and refuse to improve. These individuals need to be removed.”
Perhaps all those Degrees and hours of Professional Development get in the way of true thoughts of reality. My daughter that teaches in a title I school tells me she corrects students English and the students goes home and tell the parents the teacher says they do not pronounce a word properly. The next day the student tells my daughter their father said to do what the teacher tells you to do. Dosen’t this ever happen here in Georgia? It dosen’t sound like it. She claims almost all her parents are very supportive. She also told me a story about a student who brought her flowers and she explained to her student that she shouldn’t pick flowers from peoples yards. The student responded “I didn’t pick them, these are funeral flowers from my aunts funeral yesterday.” So please remember, not everything we assume to be fact is true!
Observation, I see you too have adopted the childlike behavior of name calling along with your new friend and others on here. Also not only are your reading comprehension skills poor but the moral of the above story also seems to apply to you. As I mentioned in one of this weeks post I retired 6 years ago at age 48. So no, I don’t begrudge teachers their benefits but I do expect them to provide proper instruction to our children, arrive on time and daily, and be prepared to teach the material correctly. I don’t think that is asking too much for 180 days of work in exchange for the average salary of $53,000, 13 paid sick and personal days, our county provides more, health insurance, along with one of the best education retirement programs in the U.S. Also in our county the teachers use paid classroom days for their Continued Professional Education classes. How did that happen? Imagine having a Masters Degree in Elementary Education and you have to attend a math class for 6 days to teach kids how to multiply?
MB
July 23rd, 2011
9:03 am
@atlmom One suggestion I’d have would be to set up administrative assignments so those people rotated through actually moving back into the classrooms on a routine basis. For example, if you agree to take an admin position, it is with the understanding that, in three years, you will be given a teaching assignment (regular classroom, no privilege stuff) for a year. You will drop back to a teacher’s salary at that level and, based on success in your classroom that year, will be eligible to return to an administrative job after that year. You’d have a quarter of admins moving every year; they would (hopefully!) have a greater appreciation for classroom teachers and what’s actually happening in the trenches.
@GA Coach – not admin bashing, but bringing up that teachers’ effectiveness may be negatively affected by admins. Actually, I’ve seen more of a problem with admins NOT addressing low-performing staff – they don’t want to go to the trouble of the paperwork or personal hassle. This is true especially if the employee “contributes” to the school in other ways. (In other ways, their instructional effectiveness ranks below their coaching or extracurricular duties.)
Peaches Tee
July 23rd, 2011
9:36 am
MB, that is so true. It may be best to has adminstrators stay at schools only for a few years, so they won’t get too comfortable with their staff members. Your idea of adminis returning to the classroom is also a great suggestion. That way they can stay objective in the evaluation process of teachers.
Slob, most teachers are working hard to help children, and they go beyond the call of duty to work with children. However, there are so many issues involved in education. The solutions are not always as easy as some think. What is true, the majority of teachers just want to teach and not become bogged down with stuff that interferes with our teaching day. The 180 days that’s used for teaching involve burning the midnight oil during school days, weekends, holidays, and summers. Teachers who care put in many more hours than the 180 days.
Peaches Tee
July 23rd, 2011
9:43 am
Also Slob, some teachers may rejoice in spending those day in Professional Dev., but most prefer to teach the students during this time. It’s the system admins who plan the days for teachers to attend those meeting during the school day.
Shocked at this
July 23rd, 2011
10:17 am
@ MB The administrators in other countries (and private schools here in the US) teach a class each year. The philosophy is that this keeps them connected to the classroom and the role of the teacher.
Observation
July 23rd, 2011
11:24 am
@Sloboffthestreet. 8:54 am, July 223. The hit dog squeals.
There have been at least 15 blogs on “Get Schooled” since the APS cheating scandal broke, and quite a few extreme teacher-bashers who sourly commented on teachers’ job-security and retirement benefits in what seemed like an envious manner. Also there have been many critical comments about teachers couched in contemptuous language that seemed designed to hurt their target more than anything else.
I know that you mentioned in one post that you’re retired. Why do you take my reference to “nasty jerk” personally?
Ed Johnson
July 23rd, 2011
12:08 pm
K-12 public education is the one thing Obama could have done right. But he flubbed it. Horrible consequences will emerge only over the long run. Just like with APS under Beverly Hall.
And maybe that’s the plan, since Obama has appointed Hall to a administrative post…
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/president-obama-announces-more-key-administration-posts-52710
sloboffthestreet
July 23rd, 2011
12:38 pm
Mr. Obvious, The answer to your question is “Because it was directly pointed at ME.” Your SSSOOOO CUTE!!!
The most interesting point to all this about benefits is the teachers who post on here stating what a terrible job teaching is and what little compensation is provided telling 1/2 truths to make their point and exaggerating the efforts of the majority as fact. As I have stated before, if the job is not to your liking, GET OUT. I don’t see a teacher shortage. I see a Highly Effective teacher shortage. Of my daughters 2008 graduation class from a real college of education, over 1/3 of her class still has failed to find employment in their field of specialty, EDUCATION. So for all the educators who find such disdain in their jobs and the circumstances surrounding them, move over and let the unjaded youth take over. I read some of the teachers have soured their own on education as a career. I don’t see the purpose to that. Because I have a dislike for something dosen’t mean I should force the same onto my children. My first response to my daughters announcement of changing her major to elementary education was one of shock. A Pharm D degree along with a law degree for one more year of college seemed to be a better opportunity in my eyes but I did not express my opinion and she is elated with her choice, and for that I am happy. The only request I had when she went to college was for her to choose a career she could find gainful employment in and that she has done. The wishes I have for my children are simple ones and the expectations of their teachers are the same. I am happy the “Parent Bashing” has subsided on this blog. If this is what has been stated as “Shutting Down the Conversation” then it pleases me greatly. Now perhaps as true professionals you can come together as a unifed group and bring the change to public education it so greatly needs. As parents, many are here to help in any way possible. Time, money, you name it. For the parents who fail to see the importance of their childrens education, that is part of the job of education. House bill 1187 has provided for proper school councils to help address these shortcomings. Unfortunatly many administrators and BOE’s do not utilize this tool to any useful benefit. You can mail threats to parents, have a nasty social worker threaten them, or you can have a parent attempt to communicate and help those who do not understand the outcome of a proper education offering a helping hand for their children. As 4 real stated he/she only had a handfull of parents over his/her career that refused to take any interest in their childrens education. It would appear 4real has the proper attitude to accomplish this feat. Whatever it is, it has worked and this is the philosophy that needs to infect educators everywhere. Getting bit by a bug isn’t always a bad thing. You know what they say about what dosen’t kill you???
atlmom
July 23rd, 2011
1:00 pm
Mr Johnson: That post from the white house is from over a year ago. Trying to inflame people much?
X Math Teacher
July 23rd, 2011
1:47 pm
X Science Teacher.. ditto here! Too many years putting up with crap from all angles and listening to incompetent administrators who could not handle the classroom themselves tell me what to do trying to make all teachers cookie cutters!
Georgia Coach… of course you think all administrators are wonderful and the teachers they get rid of deserve it, probably because they didn’t coach and that’s why you have your job… protected by an administrator who values sports over education!
Truth of the matter is, these crappy administrators actually PROTECT the bad teachers and run off the good teachers who call them out on it! In 20 years I have watched pathetic teacher after pathetic teacher (many coaches) keep their jobs because their sport was ‘winning’…. .while those of us good teachers had to continuously clean up the mess!
I wonder how many high school coaches would even be teaching if there were no sports in high school, I bet fewer than 20%!
Georgia Coach
July 23rd, 2011
4:48 pm
@ X Math teacher you missed the whole point, which is teachers need to be accountable and act like professionals. That includes coaches, too.
Ed Johnson
July 23rd, 2011
8:40 pm
@atlmon, yup, I am.
Just like I tried to “inflame” people when Hall fired 90% of APS principals soon after she got here. That should have “inflamed” people, but obviously it did not. (Erroll Davis would be wise to exercise a moral imperative and go find those principals Hall fired and apologize to them on behalf of the district.)
Just like I tried to “inflame” people when Hall went to the state legislature to get the APS charter changed so she could get control the school board. That should have “inflamed” people, but obviously it did not.
Just like I tried to “inflame” people when APS experienced “eye popping” CRCT score gains after Hall had been of the job just two years. That should have “inflamed” people, but obviously it did not.
Just like I tried to “inflame” people when the test results started showing the decline in student learning gradually shifting from the latter grades to first grade! That should have “inflamed” people, but obviously it did not.
Just like I tried to “inflame” people with my report on the 2009 CRCT wrong-to-right erasures authored prior to the Blue Ribbon Commission putting out their fraudulent report. That should have “inflamed” people, but obviously it did not. The report still is here… http://tinyurl.com/2dhcyfo.
Just like I tried to “inflame” people when Hall lead (made?) the school board to hire a PR firm to create “talking points” to say CRCT cheating wasn’t systemic and that only twelve (12) APS schools were the problem and all other schools were “clear” so as to allow Hall to escape culpability. That should have “inflamed” people, but obviously it did not.
Just like I tried to “inflame” people when NEAP’s TUDA continually showed APS to be two systems within one: one system for mostly “black” kids and one system for mostly “white” kids. That, too, should have “inflamed” people, but obviously it did not.
Sadly, too many people are poised to allow the same kind mess to play out nationally, so on a far grander scale than what APS experienced. Again, thanks to Obama.
That fact the Obama even considered Hall for a post exposes Obama, character-wise. But his nominating Hall is but a relatively small additive factor compared to his putting Duncan in as US Education Secretary.
People should be “inflamed” by Obama’s “Race to the Top competition.” Unfortunately, some people (states) have jumped into the competition. My god, our federal government pushing competition as a way to improve education!
Sadly, some people go along with it simply because Obama “looks like us.” It’s as if such people are driven to seek proof of their worthiness as a particular “race” at any price, including aiding and abating robbers of their own children’s education. They’d rather do this than simply accept their inherent worthiness that comes with being a human being. So, they will go without questioning the obvious. They didn’t question Hall, they won’t question Obama.
Be “inflamed!” I am.
Ed Johnson
Advocate for Quality in Public Education
(404) 505-8176
edwjohnson@aol.com
Steve Perry on CNN says
July 23rd, 2011
10:05 pm
@Ed
Obama has not devoted real thought to education. His inner circle (Arne Duncan, Valery Jarrett..etc, who if they attended public schools were academic successes) cannot advise him properly on NCLB.
I am OK with his other programs..
Teacher
July 23rd, 2011
10:16 pm
Tim, years ago students were tracked according to ability. Each student was challenged at their own level. Upon entering high school, students followed a college preparatory track or a career development track. SAT scores indicated higher performance abilities because only those who were prepared took the SAT. Subsequently, the college prep students actually graduated from college in greater numbers vs. wasting precious time and money and future development THINKING they were able to handle the expectations of university.
The students in the career development track were well prepared to step out into decent paying jobs through programs like BOCES in New York State that continued basic education skills with actual apprenticeships in carpentry, plumbing, auto mechanics, cooking school, the hospitality industry,cosmetology, computer technology, etc. similar to the services that Chattahoochee Tech, DeVry, and other such institutions provide now AFTER graduation. As I recall (from several years ago), first year career development students spent 1/2 of their day in regular high school math and English classes at their level and the other 1/2 in study for their area of interest or in a survey of available areas of career development open to them. The second year, the students spent 1/2 in classes and the other 1/2 day in workshops at the Career center gaining hands on experience. The third year they were working 1/2 day as apprentices on site and gaining valuable experience. Their senior year was spent in apprenticeship full time. By the time these students graduated, they were ready to step in as trusted junior members of their work crews and able to earn a supporting income.
This will also allow for focused academics for those in the college preparatory track. College preparatory students should then be able to experience of their expanded academic world without distractions.
I have watched way too many children leave high school with no skills to support them, years of disappointment to greet them, failed attempts at college to discourage and indebt them, depression to find them.
Surely we acknowledge that we are here to show our children a way to be successful in life. Not everyone is going to university. In our push to see every child succeed, have we forgotten that there are many paths to success for the individual?
I propose that school districts collaborate with institutions like Chattahoochee Tech and DeVry (I am not sure which institutions are best suited for such a link) to redraw the career development programs for our kids. In this way, I believe that we will see our children off the streets, gainfully employed and satisfied with their lives, not dependent on parents and riding the waves of debt and depression that we see so many of them do these days.
I know that it is politically incorrect to track students in today’s schools, but I ask you, which is the greater evil? Tracking for success and challenging them to succeed on their own level, or trying to service all citizens (for that is what our kids are and will be) into one approach?
I have a passionate desire to see this happen. Is it possible?
Ole Guy
July 23rd, 2011
11:08 pm
Dammit, Struggling Teacher, when are you, the Teacher Corps, going to stop looking for someone to “allow” you to teach. This is tantamount to the pilot seeking someone to “allow” him/her to operate in a safe manner, which ONLY the guy in the left seat (the captain) can do…NOT the managers, and NOT the passengers.
The ONLY answer to the “administrative” difficulties encountered by the Teacher Corps is unionization. YOU need to organize into a collective voice; ONLY you can achieve this, not popular demand, not the Tooth Fairy, and not Santa. I realize there is Legislative sentiment not in accord with this, however, YOU must change this, for if you do not even try, YOU deserve all the woe which descends upon you, your profession and, unfortunately, the calibre of young hs graduates who must, eventually, assume responsible roles in our society.
Think about it, Struggling Teacher, and then DO something. For too many years, I have heard and read many many complaints, from the Teacher Corps, regarding the very same issues which, in the face of educational decline, persist. WHATCHAGONNADO?
NewMinority
July 23rd, 2011
11:11 pm
@Jordan Kohanim
I like it when individuals point out Finland’s top PISA performance. Let’s look at their demographics:
Population: 5.4 million, 15.8 inhabitants per km² (40.5 per square mile) SMALL POPULATION. NOT CROWDED
Life expectancy: Men 76 years, women 83 years GOOD HEALTH
Languages: Official languages are Finnish (spoken by 91%) and Swedish (5.4%). Sámi is the mother tongue of about 1,700 people, members of the indigenous Sámi people of northern Lapland HOMOGENOUS POPULATION. WHITE MAJORITY
Religion: Christianity; 79.9 % Lutheran and about 1.1% Orthodox. CHRISTIAN MAJORITY
Do you think APS could duplicate this? What would be your strategy?
NewMinority
July 23rd, 2011
11:27 pm
MORE ON FINLAND EDUCATION:
“When we want the elephant to grow we don’t measure it, we feed it.” -a typical Finland School response to comparison with American education.
“Pat Bassett’s report on Finland Schools was fascinating, adding a great deal to my own understanding, and most of what I share here is based on what Pat reported at the ISACS conference. Here in the US, teachers are drawn from the bottom 3rd of college graduates, but in Finland teachers come from the top 10%. How can a small nation be so effective at bringing its best and brightest into schools?
First, it is not the money (teachers aren’t paid that much) but rather, teaching is afforded a high status in Finnish society. Teachers are highly trained with a masters degree being required. Then, teachers are given a great deal of autonomy in the classroom. They design their own curriculum to fit the loose national guidelines. In other words, you hire the best, and then trust them to do the noble work of educating the nation.”
http://wisdomofhands.blogspot.com/2009/11/finland-schools.html
old dude
July 24th, 2011
11:48 am
Hurrah! and well said Mr. Professor. I began my 41st year as a classroom educator last week and I am looking forward to a few more before I hang up my classroom key for the last time. My, my, …oh, my! How the profession has been changed… Still, I am happy to be your child’s educator and looking forward to having her/him in my class because (and this is the important part) I am so excited to see what kind of person she/he will be in 10 or 20 or 30 years from now. Just a few hours ago, I stopped in a local business and as I walked in with an employee arriving for work, the young man stopped me in the doorway saying, “excuse me, sir, but I think I know you.” I recognized him immediately from his voice and mentioned only the name of the school where I had been his teacher. He smiled and I greeted him with “how are you doing, son?” Though we could not talk then, he did search me out a few minutes later and we talked of family and old times (it had been 15 years) and he caught me up to speed on what was happening in his life. I was happy to be able to say “I’m proud of you.” He smiled and said, ‘thanks, that means a lot to me.” So, go ahead with whatever latest scheme is out there for improving our schools, test performance, teacher performance or school bus gas mileage or whatever else needs to be measured so we seem more competive with the rest of the world. I take my check quietly to the bank but I keep my real treasure in my heart.
Jordan Kohanim
July 24th, 2011
1:01 pm
New Minority,
I was actually making reference to the autonomy afforded to teachers in Finland, as well as the absence of testing emphasis. I’m sorry if you felt I was making any socio-economic or racial comparison. It was not my intent t do so when referencing the article.
Ole Guy
July 24th, 2011
7:32 pm
Ole Dude, as a long-time educator who has, no doubt, seen the best and (unfortunately) the worst of the profession, what is YOUR observation on the possibility of restoring the profession to the once-respected status it long ago knew? Every time I read of a teacher (figuratively) grabing one’s ankles and (figuratively) uttering “Thank you sir may I have another”, I wanna vomit! These teachers have, it would appear, allowed themselves to sink, like whale shux, to the bottom of the educational ocean, what with unsubstantiated firings/layoffs, absolutely no control (beyond a few hours of tax-supported babysitting) on the behavioral/academic destinys of kids.
I truly dislike having this attitude toward teachers; my comments often border on that practice known as teacher bashing. Many years ago, I attempted a career change into the profession…days after my intro into the world of teaching, it became all-too-clear that my temperment and that which has become the profession would become an explosive mixture, so I backpeddled into my first love, the worlds of military and commercial aviation. However, I continue to revere that which the teaching profession once was, and I sincerely hope, for the sake of the profession…AND for younger generations, that teachers everywhere will someday regain the respect they deserve.
HS Math Teacher
July 24th, 2011
11:05 pm
Teachers will not get any respect from students who don’t know a thing about earned merit. As long as we have the lax promotion policies in lower grades, and cream puff Summer Schools for upper grades, nothing will change. Shadowboxing at a brick wall – it doesn’t amount to much.
Science Nerd
July 25th, 2011
12:54 pm
We are so past due for a “wake up” call. PFP (pay for performance) is a great idea for salespeople, but a weak link on some many levels for educators. It’s like plugging the hole in the proverbial dam with chewing gum. We are in a STEM crisis, but that may just be the tip of the iceberg. It is the unseen that will, eventually, sink this great titanic that we call American Public Education. We cannot change Education, unless its value is appreciated within the gold dome. Oh, the rhetoric is up and running, but actions speak louder than words. Furloughs, PFP, frozen salaries…a never ending spiral downhill. The STEM crisis is symptomatic.
How Ironic!!!
July 28th, 2011
4:53 pm
I just cut-and-pasted this from the Teachers.net chatboard…ironic in light of the discussions of Finnish education:
So, you might have heard that we in Finland are supposedly
having the best schools in the world (PISA). I have taught a
few years in Finland, and I am now working here, and it has
been a nightmare! The teachers are great here, the schools
are fine, too, the problem are the students! Finnish
students have a high academic motivation. I had never heard
of ISS or OSS in my life, never gave any other type of
detention either. Just no need because the kids are so quiet
and well-behaved (at least in the schools I taught).
The superintendent told me here that European teachers might
have management problems here. That’s so me!
I am teaching 5th grade now, but I am going to teach 6th
grade next year. I have read books, I have observed other
teachers, and still I can’t get the classes to be quite. How
will I manage next year with 6th grade. How do you start off
your year? I will be in a new school, so I could start off
freshly. How do I get them to be more respectful?
And how will I learn not to take all remarks (This is so
boring! do we have to do this? big yawns etc.) so personally?
If you are a foreigner here, please share how you got the
hang of this. And all the others: what is your secret trick
for classroom management and discipline?