The real STEM crisis in education: “We lose 25,000 math and science teachers each year.”
Richard Ingersoll (UPenn)
At researcher Richard Ingersoll’s Ivy League university, there’s no undergraduate degree in education.
“Very few undergrads at Penn want to do it,” said the University of Pennsylvania professor of education and sociology who once taught at the University of Georgia. “Most want to do law, medicine, business, or veterinary school.”
A former high school teacher turned academic, Ingersoll has more than a passing interest in whether students choose teaching careers. He is one of the nation’s foremost experts on teacher turnover, and he fears that one-sided accountability measures drive good people out of the profession and deter promising candidates from entering it.
He cites the misinformation on the shortage of math and science teachers. In a given year, the United States produces four times as many new math and science teachers as leave the classroom due to retirements, Ingersoll said.
So, while he applauds President Obama’s plan to add 100,000 new science and math teachers over a decade, Ingersoll said, “We lose 25,000 math and science teachers each year.” Of that number, he said only 7,000 are due to retirement. He does not believe that incentives — performance pay or bonuses — are enough of a carrot to reverse the trend.
As two recent studies suggest, paying teachers bonuses doesn’t appear to lead to higher student achievement. Yes, teachers would love a $1,500 performance bonus for meeting targets, but a new RAND study out of New York and a National Center on Performance Incentives at Vanderbilt University last year out of Nashville both found that many teachers are already pedaling as fast as they can under new accountability systems and the bonuses appear to have no impact on student achievement.
“We tested the most basic and foundational question related to performance incentives — does bonus pay alone improve student outcomes? — and we found that it does not,” said Matthew Springer, executive director of the National Center on Performance Incentives.
The RAND study was commissioned by New York City, which wanted to find out if $56 million in performance bonuses to school staffs over the last three years improved student performance. The finding: No improvement.
What teachers want most, Ingersoll said, is to be regarded as professionals and valued for their judgment, their intellect and their ability to think on their feet and problem-solve.
On scales of motivation, teachers and nurses are the highest for wanting to do good with their lives rather than earn a lot of money.
As one teacher noted here on the blog, “We not only buy school supplies for students (pencils, paper, etc.), but we also must buy classroom supplies (white board markers, copy paper, etc.). Can you just imagine if employees of Coca-Cola were asked to purchase their own copy paper and pens and paper clips?”
Ingersoll understands the common-sense appeal of merit pay and performance bonuses, and why Obama and U.S. education Secretary Arne Duncan are such proponents. As a young high school teacher, it annoyed him that his colleague in the next classroom read the newspaper all day while he was up until midnight each night preparing lessons. “Yet, he was making more than me because he had been there longer,” he said.
“We all know that some teachers are better than others, and there do seem to be some teachers who are not working very hard. Then, we find out they are all being paid the same,” he said. The problem is that we haven’t devised a good way to fairly and objectively judge the most effective teachers and separate out what a teacher brings to the student performance equation.
Ingersoll hoped that the new science of value-added measures — using student growth as measured by tests to analyze how much a teacher advanced the learning of each individual student — would offer a reliable yardstick. But he is wary now because of the rising doubts of statisticians about the reliability of value-added data and studies showing that a large proportion of teachers who rate highly one year tumble to the bottom the next.
“That raises a real monkey wrench in our belief that a good teacher is a good teacher and a bad teacher is a bad teacher when you have that drop from the top quintile to the bottom in one year,” he said.
(“Some of my fellow professors are very zealous about value-added measures,” added Ingersoll, “until I say ‘What about using it for us in higher education?’ Then, there is ominous silence in the room.” )
Ingersoll sees greater potential in Denver’s performance pay system, crafted by teachers and administrators, that incorporates 10 weights to assess success, such as pursuing professional development, working in a high-needs school, receiving a glowing evaluation and raising test scores.
But Ingersoll said no performance pay system can work if we don’t address the deprofessionalization of teaching, citing his own research that teachers in virtually all states report less of a role in decisions about textbooks, content and grading —all of which are integral to their jobs and for which they ought to be consulted.
“The whole accountability regime tends to be a top-down thing that hasn’t included teachers. It violates basic management principles — you can’t hold employees responsible for things that they don’t have any control over or don’t have the tools to do,” he said.
“If you give people autonomy and tools and don’t hold them accountable, then you get corruption,” said Ingersoll. “If you hold them accountable and don’t give them autonomy and tools, then you drive employees out — the best ones first.”
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get School blog
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84 comments Add your comment
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta
July 22nd, 2011
8:33 pm
Struggling Teacher,
You correctly assert, “Look how badly we teachers are treated.” Please let me your sentiment.
I counter, “Look how badly we teachers allow ourselves to be treated.”
If you are a teacher and don’t like the way you’re treated, do something about it. And whining on an AJC blog doesn’t constitute “doing something about it.”
For starters, get MACE. I did.
Go to the MACE website: http://www.theteachersadvocate.com.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta
July 22nd, 2011
8:34 pm
OOPS: Please let me reform your sentiment.
dekalbite
July 22nd, 2011
8:54 pm
Teachers leaving the teaching profession in droves may be bad for students, but it’s not necessarily bad for teachers. My 90+ year old mom was a Registered Nurse for many years – well – you know it was a long time ago. Her mom was a teacher, my sister and I were teachers, and both her grandchildren are teachers (one math and one science) so she had heard/hears a lot of complaining about the lack of respect and compensation for teachers today.
My mom maintains that teaching is going through the same upheaval nursing went through about 20 to 30 years ago. Nurses were poorly paid and didn’t command a lot of respect as they were asked to take on greater and greater responsibilities due to the changing nature of the medical industry. They left the nursing field in droves. Soon there was a tremendous nursing crisis. But it was too late. They were gone and found out there were greener pastures. As a result, nursing pay was raised substantially, flexible hours were created to attract people to the nursing field, etc. The days when my mother as a nurse and expected to work 10 hours a day 6 days a week for low pay (most of you are too young to remember that) rapidly disappeared.
So as teachers leave the field, a million teachers retire in the near future, and the economy recovers, we will see a teaching crisis on par with the nursing crisis of 20 years ago. To attract teachers, their pay will rise and much of the pressures that we see today will be gone.
Now that’s what my 90+ year old mom says. She says, “I saw it happen in nursing, and it will happen in teaching.” At her age, she takes the long view of life.
atlmom
July 22nd, 2011
8:54 pm
mb: clearly salary is only part of it. but the salaries are way too low. of course, the administration stuff is also horrible. what’s the answer? one answer is better pay. but that’s only a small part of it.
atlmom
July 22nd, 2011
8:57 pm
dekalbite: that is incredibly interesting. possibly quite true. wouldn’t be surprising…given that nursing and teaching are those professions that were open to women, when they had no other choices.
the difference is that nursing was mostly for companies that can change, whereas teaching is mostly in public institutions (that are clearly not working).
William Casey
July 22nd, 2011
9:17 pm
I’m in the same boat as catlady and wondering. My son’s doing a double degree program in Mathematics and Philosophy at Georgia Southern. Takes overloads every semester maintaining a 3.7 GPA. Works for the university tutoring freshmen in math. Not very materialistic. Could coach basketball. Most importantly for a teacher, he’s articulate and concise in the use of the English language. Would he consider teaching in a Georgia secondary school at twice the going rate? Doubtful. He saw up-close-and-personal how good teachers are disrespected. And, he has the one character flaw that many math/science guys share: he does not suffer fools gladly.
Atlanta crim(e) teacher
July 22nd, 2011
10:23 pm
Try and teach at a school like crime high school. The students are the worse people in America
Atlanta crim(e) teacher
July 22nd, 2011
10:24 pm
Yeah its crime not crim
peeved
July 22nd, 2011
11:11 pm
I know of 2 math specialist teachers in Cherokee County that have been moved into non-math classes. They are ready to walk away from 20+ years of teaching each. I guess the budget is more important than having qualified teachers in the classroom.
Ole Guy
July 23rd, 2011
12:58 am
What’s gonna happen…in the long run?
Many…no, make that ALL…of the marvels we enjoy today are derived from the ” early days” of technological research. The Manhaten Project, precursor to the Atomic Bomb which gave us many of the post-world war two freedoms, was possible only for the hundreds of thousands of twenty-somethings who “knew their math; who knew their science” only because they had received high school and college educations which actually meant something. Ditto the hundreds of thousands…many my generational peers…who made possible the first floundering efforts of the Man In Space Program, known as Project Mercury, and the follow-on programs we have come to know as Gemni, Appolo, and the recently retired Space Shuttle.
While many may or may not agree with the wisdom of the huge expenditures of these efforts…and many yet may or may not agree with my constant “pining” for days past; a period of time when we, the Red White and Blue, stood for achievements of substance, NO ONE can refute the direct relationships of previous generations who were, somehow, able to master the mysteries of math and science, and the wonderful technological “toys” we enjoy to this very day. Yet, somehow, we have, upon us, a generation…make that generations…whose only legacy just may be “CAN’T”.
The mathematical disciplines, as well as those of the science applications, have ALWAYS been tough; have NEVER been easy. If they ever were, this Nation would have never left the gate of the global race to civilization advancement. Now, all of a sudden, the educational community seems quite content to simply swoon and gasp “POOR POOR CHILDREN”! They can’t grasp the complexities of arithmetic 1, 2, and 3. DO YOU, THE EDUCATIONAL COMMUNITY, REALIZE HOW DAMN REDICULOUS THAT IS? You’re not suppose to rub the wee wittle ones on the fanny and ask “where does it hurt”? YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO SET STANDARDS AND DEMAND RESULTS. Otherwise, this Country is going to (if it hasen’t already) revert to third world status being pushed around by every two-bit a _ _ h _ le who sees an easy target populated by generations of “CAN’Ts”.
Butler9
July 23rd, 2011
7:26 am
On the ‘meet the teacher’ day each year just proceeding the start of classes, I told my now-adult son’s teachers in his presence to more-or-less do whatever it takes to keep him in line, maintain discipline, etc. I told them I would fully support that effort. Perhaps I’m just fortunate that my statement of support for them was never put to an uncomfortable test. All I know is that no serious discipline problems were ever brought to my attention. And he was just a normal kid — not an angel by any measure.
Of course, maybe it also helped that I served as a mentor to young boys in his schools for eight of his twelve years, chaperoned class trips, had lunch at school with him and his classmates, and so on. Any man who has had and taken the opportunity to do those things knows very well the high degree of appreciation that is shown him by teachers, administrators, and other parents who hang around the school. I only stopped doing it when my son no longer considered it ‘cool’ for me to be seen around the school (which, fortunately, was about the same time that I was on the verge of becoming burned out by the involvement).
Obviously not everyone is in the position to be able to devote so much hands-on time in support of our schools. But every parent can support their children’s teachers by giving them the benefit of the doubt in disciplinary matters, by making the greatest possible effort to ensure that their kids show up everyday, by talking to their kids about their day at school, and taking a sincere interest in their education. Maybe I’m old-fashioned or something, but that doesn’t seem to be too much to ask of any parent.
sloboffthestreet
July 23rd, 2011
8:54 am
A poster made a very astute OBSERVATION, and it wasn’t OBSERVATION. Go figure?
“Now we have switched to administrator bashing. Guess what. Many teachers who are held accountable for poor performance immediately begin pointing fingers at their evaluators. Some teachers refuse to accept responsibility for their own performance and work habits and refuse to improve. These individuals need to be removed.”
Perhaps all those Degrees and hours of Professional Development get in the way of true thoughts of reality. My daughter that teaches in a title I school tells me she corrects students English and the students goes home and tell the parents the teacher says they do not pronounce a word properly. The next day the student tells my daughter their father said to do what the teacher tells you to do. Dosen’t this ever happen here in Georgia? It dosen’t sound like it. She claims almost all her parents are very supportive. She also told me a story about a student who brought her flowers and she explained to her student that she shouldn’t pick flowers from peoples yards. The student responded “I didn’t pick them, these are funeral flowers from my aunts funeral yesterday.” So please remember, not everything we assume to be fact is true!
Observation, I see you too have adopted the childlike behavior of name calling along with your new friend and others on here. Also not only are your reading comprehension skills poor but the moral of the above story also seems to apply to you. As I mentioned in one of this weeks post I retired 6 years ago at age 48. So no, I don’t begrudge teachers their benefits but I do expect them to provide proper instruction to our children, arrive on time and daily, and be prepared to teach the material correctly. I don’t think that is asking too much for 180 days of work in exchange for the average salary of $53,000, 13 paid sick and personal days, our county provides more, health insurance, along with one of the best education retirement programs in the U.S. Also in our county the teachers use paid classroom days for their Continued Professional Education classes. How did that happen? Imagine having a Masters Degree in Elementary Education and you have to attend a math class for 6 days to teach kids how to multiply?
MB
July 23rd, 2011
9:03 am
@atlmom One suggestion I’d have would be to set up administrative assignments so those people rotated through actually moving back into the classrooms on a routine basis. For example, if you agree to take an admin position, it is with the understanding that, in three years, you will be given a teaching assignment (regular classroom, no privilege stuff) for a year. You will drop back to a teacher’s salary at that level and, based on success in your classroom that year, will be eligible to return to an administrative job after that year. You’d have a quarter of admins moving every year; they would (hopefully!) have a greater appreciation for classroom teachers and what’s actually happening in the trenches.
@GA Coach – not admin bashing, but bringing up that teachers’ effectiveness may be negatively affected by admins. Actually, I’ve seen more of a problem with admins NOT addressing low-performing staff – they don’t want to go to the trouble of the paperwork or personal hassle. This is true especially if the employee “contributes” to the school in other ways. (In other ways, their instructional effectiveness ranks below their coaching or extracurricular duties.)
Peaches Tee
July 23rd, 2011
9:36 am
MB, that is so true. It may be best to has adminstrators stay at schools only for a few years, so they won’t get too comfortable with their staff members. Your idea of adminis returning to the classroom is also a great suggestion. That way they can stay objective in the evaluation process of teachers.
Slob, most teachers are working hard to help children, and they go beyond the call of duty to work with children. However, there are so many issues involved in education. The solutions are not always as easy as some think. What is true, the majority of teachers just want to teach and not become bogged down with stuff that interferes with our teaching day. The 180 days that’s used for teaching involve burning the midnight oil during school days, weekends, holidays, and summers. Teachers who care put in many more hours than the 180 days.
Peaches Tee
July 23rd, 2011
9:43 am
Also Slob, some teachers may rejoice in spending those day in Professional Dev., but most prefer to teach the students during this time. It’s the system admins who plan the days for teachers to attend those meeting during the school day.
Shocked at this
July 23rd, 2011
10:17 am
@ MB The administrators in other countries (and private schools here in the US) teach a class each year. The philosophy is that this keeps them connected to the classroom and the role of the teacher.
Observation
July 23rd, 2011
11:24 am
@Sloboffthestreet. 8:54 am, July 223. The hit dog squeals.
There have been at least 15 blogs on “Get Schooled” since the APS cheating scandal broke, and quite a few extreme teacher-bashers who sourly commented on teachers’ job-security and retirement benefits in what seemed like an envious manner. Also there have been many critical comments about teachers couched in contemptuous language that seemed designed to hurt their target more than anything else.
I know that you mentioned in one post that you’re retired. Why do you take my reference to “nasty jerk” personally?
Ed Johnson
July 23rd, 2011
12:08 pm
K-12 public education is the one thing Obama could have done right. But he flubbed it. Horrible consequences will emerge only over the long run. Just like with APS under Beverly Hall.
And maybe that’s the plan, since Obama has appointed Hall to a administrative post…
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/president-obama-announces-more-key-administration-posts-52710
sloboffthestreet
July 23rd, 2011
12:38 pm
Mr. Obvious, The answer to your question is “Because it was directly pointed at ME.” Your SSSOOOO CUTE!!!
The most interesting point to all this about benefits is the teachers who post on here stating what a terrible job teaching is and what little compensation is provided telling 1/2 truths to make their point and exaggerating the efforts of the majority as fact. As I have stated before, if the job is not to your liking, GET OUT. I don’t see a teacher shortage. I see a Highly Effective teacher shortage. Of my daughters 2008 graduation class from a real college of education, over 1/3 of her class still has failed to find employment in their field of specialty, EDUCATION. So for all the educators who find such disdain in their jobs and the circumstances surrounding them, move over and let the unjaded youth take over. I read some of the teachers have soured their own on education as a career. I don’t see the purpose to that. Because I have a dislike for something dosen’t mean I should force the same onto my children. My first response to my daughters announcement of changing her major to elementary education was one of shock. A Pharm D degree along with a law degree for one more year of college seemed to be a better opportunity in my eyes but I did not express my opinion and she is elated with her choice, and for that I am happy. The only request I had when she went to college was for her to choose a career she could find gainful employment in and that she has done. The wishes I have for my children are simple ones and the expectations of their teachers are the same. I am happy the “Parent Bashing” has subsided on this blog. If this is what has been stated as “Shutting Down the Conversation” then it pleases me greatly. Now perhaps as true professionals you can come together as a unifed group and bring the change to public education it so greatly needs. As parents, many are here to help in any way possible. Time, money, you name it. For the parents who fail to see the importance of their childrens education, that is part of the job of education. House bill 1187 has provided for proper school councils to help address these shortcomings. Unfortunatly many administrators and BOE’s do not utilize this tool to any useful benefit. You can mail threats to parents, have a nasty social worker threaten them, or you can have a parent attempt to communicate and help those who do not understand the outcome of a proper education offering a helping hand for their children. As 4 real stated he/she only had a handfull of parents over his/her career that refused to take any interest in their childrens education. It would appear 4real has the proper attitude to accomplish this feat. Whatever it is, it has worked and this is the philosophy that needs to infect educators everywhere. Getting bit by a bug isn’t always a bad thing. You know what they say about what dosen’t kill you???
atlmom
July 23rd, 2011
1:00 pm
Mr Johnson: That post from the white house is from over a year ago. Trying to inflame people much?
X Math Teacher
July 23rd, 2011
1:47 pm
X Science Teacher.. ditto here! Too many years putting up with crap from all angles and listening to incompetent administrators who could not handle the classroom themselves tell me what to do trying to make all teachers cookie cutters!
Georgia Coach… of course you think all administrators are wonderful and the teachers they get rid of deserve it, probably because they didn’t coach and that’s why you have your job… protected by an administrator who values sports over education!
Truth of the matter is, these crappy administrators actually PROTECT the bad teachers and run off the good teachers who call them out on it! In 20 years I have watched pathetic teacher after pathetic teacher (many coaches) keep their jobs because their sport was ‘winning’…. .while those of us good teachers had to continuously clean up the mess!
I wonder how many high school coaches would even be teaching if there were no sports in high school, I bet fewer than 20%!
Georgia Coach
July 23rd, 2011
4:48 pm
@ X Math teacher you missed the whole point, which is teachers need to be accountable and act like professionals. That includes coaches, too.
Ed Johnson
July 23rd, 2011
8:40 pm
@atlmon, yup, I am.
Just like I tried to “inflame” people when Hall fired 90% of APS principals soon after she got here. That should have “inflamed” people, but obviously it did not. (Erroll Davis would be wise to exercise a moral imperative and go find those principals Hall fired and apologize to them on behalf of the district.)
Just like I tried to “inflame” people when Hall went to the state legislature to get the APS charter changed so she could get control the school board. That should have “inflamed” people, but obviously it did not.
Just like I tried to “inflame” people when APS experienced “eye popping” CRCT score gains after Hall had been of the job just two years. That should have “inflamed” people, but obviously it did not.
Just like I tried to “inflame” people when the test results started showing the decline in student learning gradually shifting from the latter grades to first grade! That should have “inflamed” people, but obviously it did not.
Just like I tried to “inflame” people with my report on the 2009 CRCT wrong-to-right erasures authored prior to the Blue Ribbon Commission putting out their fraudulent report. That should have “inflamed” people, but obviously it did not. The report still is here… http://tinyurl.com/2dhcyfo.
Just like I tried to “inflame” people when Hall lead (made?) the school board to hire a PR firm to create “talking points” to say CRCT cheating wasn’t systemic and that only twelve (12) APS schools were the problem and all other schools were “clear” so as to allow Hall to escape culpability. That should have “inflamed” people, but obviously it did not.
Just like I tried to “inflame” people when NEAP’s TUDA continually showed APS to be two systems within one: one system for mostly “black” kids and one system for mostly “white” kids. That, too, should have “inflamed” people, but obviously it did not.
Sadly, too many people are poised to allow the same kind mess to play out nationally, so on a far grander scale than what APS experienced. Again, thanks to Obama.
That fact the Obama even considered Hall for a post exposes Obama, character-wise. But his nominating Hall is but a relatively small additive factor compared to his putting Duncan in as US Education Secretary.
People should be “inflamed” by Obama’s “Race to the Top competition.” Unfortunately, some people (states) have jumped into the competition. My god, our federal government pushing competition as a way to improve education!
Sadly, some people go along with it simply because Obama “looks like us.” It’s as if such people are driven to seek proof of their worthiness as a particular “race” at any price, including aiding and abating robbers of their own children’s education. They’d rather do this than simply accept their inherent worthiness that comes with being a human being. So, they will go without questioning the obvious. They didn’t question Hall, they won’t question Obama.
Be “inflamed!” I am.
Ed Johnson
Advocate for Quality in Public Education
(404) 505-8176
edwjohnson@aol.com
Steve Perry on CNN says
July 23rd, 2011
10:05 pm
@Ed
Obama has not devoted real thought to education. His inner circle (Arne Duncan, Valery Jarrett..etc, who if they attended public schools were academic successes) cannot advise him properly on NCLB.
I am OK with his other programs..
Teacher
July 23rd, 2011
10:16 pm
Tim, years ago students were tracked according to ability. Each student was challenged at their own level. Upon entering high school, students followed a college preparatory track or a career development track. SAT scores indicated higher performance abilities because only those who were prepared took the SAT. Subsequently, the college prep students actually graduated from college in greater numbers vs. wasting precious time and money and future development THINKING they were able to handle the expectations of university.
The students in the career development track were well prepared to step out into decent paying jobs through programs like BOCES in New York State that continued basic education skills with actual apprenticeships in carpentry, plumbing, auto mechanics, cooking school, the hospitality industry,cosmetology, computer technology, etc. similar to the services that Chattahoochee Tech, DeVry, and other such institutions provide now AFTER graduation. As I recall (from several years ago), first year career development students spent 1/2 of their day in regular high school math and English classes at their level and the other 1/2 in study for their area of interest or in a survey of available areas of career development open to them. The second year, the students spent 1/2 in classes and the other 1/2 day in workshops at the Career center gaining hands on experience. The third year they were working 1/2 day as apprentices on site and gaining valuable experience. Their senior year was spent in apprenticeship full time. By the time these students graduated, they were ready to step in as trusted junior members of their work crews and able to earn a supporting income.
This will also allow for focused academics for those in the college preparatory track. College preparatory students should then be able to experience of their expanded academic world without distractions.
I have watched way too many children leave high school with no skills to support them, years of disappointment to greet them, failed attempts at college to discourage and indebt them, depression to find them.
Surely we acknowledge that we are here to show our children a way to be successful in life. Not everyone is going to university. In our push to see every child succeed, have we forgotten that there are many paths to success for the individual?
I propose that school districts collaborate with institutions like Chattahoochee Tech and DeVry (I am not sure which institutions are best suited for such a link) to redraw the career development programs for our kids. In this way, I believe that we will see our children off the streets, gainfully employed and satisfied with their lives, not dependent on parents and riding the waves of debt and depression that we see so many of them do these days.
I know that it is politically incorrect to track students in today’s schools, but I ask you, which is the greater evil? Tracking for success and challenging them to succeed on their own level, or trying to service all citizens (for that is what our kids are and will be) into one approach?
I have a passionate desire to see this happen. Is it possible?
Ole Guy
July 23rd, 2011
11:08 pm
Dammit, Struggling Teacher, when are you, the Teacher Corps, going to stop looking for someone to “allow” you to teach. This is tantamount to the pilot seeking someone to “allow” him/her to operate in a safe manner, which ONLY the guy in the left seat (the captain) can do…NOT the managers, and NOT the passengers.
The ONLY answer to the “administrative” difficulties encountered by the Teacher Corps is unionization. YOU need to organize into a collective voice; ONLY you can achieve this, not popular demand, not the Tooth Fairy, and not Santa. I realize there is Legislative sentiment not in accord with this, however, YOU must change this, for if you do not even try, YOU deserve all the woe which descends upon you, your profession and, unfortunately, the calibre of young hs graduates who must, eventually, assume responsible roles in our society.
Think about it, Struggling Teacher, and then DO something. For too many years, I have heard and read many many complaints, from the Teacher Corps, regarding the very same issues which, in the face of educational decline, persist. WHATCHAGONNADO?
NewMinority
July 23rd, 2011
11:11 pm
@Jordan Kohanim
I like it when individuals point out Finland’s top PISA performance. Let’s look at their demographics:
Population: 5.4 million, 15.8 inhabitants per km² (40.5 per square mile) SMALL POPULATION. NOT CROWDED
Life expectancy: Men 76 years, women 83 years GOOD HEALTH
Languages: Official languages are Finnish (spoken by 91%) and Swedish (5.4%). Sámi is the mother tongue of about 1,700 people, members of the indigenous Sámi people of northern Lapland HOMOGENOUS POPULATION. WHITE MAJORITY
Religion: Christianity; 79.9 % Lutheran and about 1.1% Orthodox. CHRISTIAN MAJORITY
Do you think APS could duplicate this? What would be your strategy?
NewMinority
July 23rd, 2011
11:27 pm
MORE ON FINLAND EDUCATION:
“When we want the elephant to grow we don’t measure it, we feed it.” -a typical Finland School response to comparison with American education.
“Pat Bassett’s report on Finland Schools was fascinating, adding a great deal to my own understanding, and most of what I share here is based on what Pat reported at the ISACS conference. Here in the US, teachers are drawn from the bottom 3rd of college graduates, but in Finland teachers come from the top 10%. How can a small nation be so effective at bringing its best and brightest into schools?
First, it is not the money (teachers aren’t paid that much) but rather, teaching is afforded a high status in Finnish society. Teachers are highly trained with a masters degree being required. Then, teachers are given a great deal of autonomy in the classroom. They design their own curriculum to fit the loose national guidelines. In other words, you hire the best, and then trust them to do the noble work of educating the nation.”
http://wisdomofhands.blogspot.com/2009/11/finland-schools.html
old dude
July 24th, 2011
11:48 am
Hurrah! and well said Mr. Professor. I began my 41st year as a classroom educator last week and I am looking forward to a few more before I hang up my classroom key for the last time. My, my, …oh, my! How the profession has been changed… Still, I am happy to be your child’s educator and looking forward to having her/him in my class because (and this is the important part) I am so excited to see what kind of person she/he will be in 10 or 20 or 30 years from now. Just a few hours ago, I stopped in a local business and as I walked in with an employee arriving for work, the young man stopped me in the doorway saying, “excuse me, sir, but I think I know you.” I recognized him immediately from his voice and mentioned only the name of the school where I had been his teacher. He smiled and I greeted him with “how are you doing, son?” Though we could not talk then, he did search me out a few minutes later and we talked of family and old times (it had been 15 years) and he caught me up to speed on what was happening in his life. I was happy to be able to say “I’m proud of you.” He smiled and said, ‘thanks, that means a lot to me.” So, go ahead with whatever latest scheme is out there for improving our schools, test performance, teacher performance or school bus gas mileage or whatever else needs to be measured so we seem more competive with the rest of the world. I take my check quietly to the bank but I keep my real treasure in my heart.
Jordan Kohanim
July 24th, 2011
1:01 pm
New Minority,
I was actually making reference to the autonomy afforded to teachers in Finland, as well as the absence of testing emphasis. I’m sorry if you felt I was making any socio-economic or racial comparison. It was not my intent t do so when referencing the article.
Ole Guy
July 24th, 2011
7:32 pm
Ole Dude, as a long-time educator who has, no doubt, seen the best and (unfortunately) the worst of the profession, what is YOUR observation on the possibility of restoring the profession to the once-respected status it long ago knew? Every time I read of a teacher (figuratively) grabing one’s ankles and (figuratively) uttering “Thank you sir may I have another”, I wanna vomit! These teachers have, it would appear, allowed themselves to sink, like whale shux, to the bottom of the educational ocean, what with unsubstantiated firings/layoffs, absolutely no control (beyond a few hours of tax-supported babysitting) on the behavioral/academic destinys of kids.
I truly dislike having this attitude toward teachers; my comments often border on that practice known as teacher bashing. Many years ago, I attempted a career change into the profession…days after my intro into the world of teaching, it became all-too-clear that my temperment and that which has become the profession would become an explosive mixture, so I backpeddled into my first love, the worlds of military and commercial aviation. However, I continue to revere that which the teaching profession once was, and I sincerely hope, for the sake of the profession…AND for younger generations, that teachers everywhere will someday regain the respect they deserve.
HS Math Teacher
July 24th, 2011
11:05 pm
Teachers will not get any respect from students who don’t know a thing about earned merit. As long as we have the lax promotion policies in lower grades, and cream puff Summer Schools for upper grades, nothing will change. Shadowboxing at a brick wall – it doesn’t amount to much.
Science Nerd
July 25th, 2011
12:54 pm
We are so past due for a “wake up” call. PFP (pay for performance) is a great idea for salespeople, but a weak link on some many levels for educators. It’s like plugging the hole in the proverbial dam with chewing gum. We are in a STEM crisis, but that may just be the tip of the iceberg. It is the unseen that will, eventually, sink this great titanic that we call American Public Education. We cannot change Education, unless its value is appreciated within the gold dome. Oh, the rhetoric is up and running, but actions speak louder than words. Furloughs, PFP, frozen salaries…a never ending spiral downhill. The STEM crisis is symptomatic.
How Ironic!!!
July 28th, 2011
4:53 pm
I just cut-and-pasted this from the Teachers.net chatboard…ironic in light of the discussions of Finnish education:
So, you might have heard that we in Finland are supposedly
having the best schools in the world (PISA). I have taught a
few years in Finland, and I am now working here, and it has
been a nightmare! The teachers are great here, the schools
are fine, too, the problem are the students! Finnish
students have a high academic motivation. I had never heard
of ISS or OSS in my life, never gave any other type of
detention either. Just no need because the kids are so quiet
and well-behaved (at least in the schools I taught).
The superintendent told me here that European teachers might
have management problems here. That’s so me!
I am teaching 5th grade now, but I am going to teach 6th
grade next year. I have read books, I have observed other
teachers, and still I can’t get the classes to be quite. How
will I manage next year with 6th grade. How do you start off
your year? I will be in a new school, so I could start off
freshly. How do I get them to be more respectful?
And how will I learn not to take all remarks (This is so
boring! do we have to do this? big yawns etc.) so personally?
If you are a foreigner here, please share how you got the
hang of this. And all the others: what is your secret trick
for classroom management and discipline?