FairTest: Country is seeing an explosion of cheating reports

crcted.0920 (Medium)FairTest has long been raising alarms over what it considers a dangerous testing mania in U.S. schools and a misplaced faith in what and how much test scores tell us about students.

In response to the news of the just released APS cheating report, FairTest sent out this statement:

The Atlanta test cheating scandal may be the largest in scope, as some stories indicate. But it is hardly an isolated incident.

FairTest, the National Center for Fair & Open Testing, has tracked reports of cheating for more than two decades. The number of reported cases has exploded in recent years, with several now coming to light each week. In just the past few months, cases have been reported in Washington, D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York City, Los Angeles, Miami, Orlando and many smaller communities.

The Georgia Office of Special Investigators’ report on the Atlanta scandal provides a cogent analysis of the causes of the problem, one that should have implications for both federal and state testing policies.

Three primary conditions led to widespread cheating on the 2009 CRCT: {These are from the report itself}

- The targets set by the district were often unreasonable, especially given their cumulative effect over the years. Additionally, the administration put unreasonable pressure on teachers and principals to achieve targets;

- A culture of fear, intimidation and retaliation spread throughout the district; and,

- Dr. Hall and her administration emphasized test results and public praise to the exclusion of integrity and ethics.

and

“What has become clear through our investigation is that ultimately, the data and meeting ‘targets’ by whatever means necessary, became more important than true academic progress.”

–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog

61 comments Add your comment

Out of the Bag

July 6th, 2011
3:16 pm

Mmmm hmmm. And primarily which demographic?

sissyuga

July 6th, 2011
3:23 pm

Yes, and what about the pay for performance push too? How does that factor in? Look, a child on a 2nd grade reading level in 5th grade is not going to pass the test folks. It isn’t the teachers fault so why cut her pay? Teachers are easy prey in this kind of test mania.

Mikey D

July 6th, 2011
3:23 pm

Teachers have been saying exactly this for years as we have seen the damage that the testing frenzy and charlatans like Rhee, et al, have thrust upon our students. And for years, teachers have been accused of being lazy, protectors of the status quo, etc… Hey FairTest: glad you finally caught up to the reality. A few years late, but welcome to the party nonetheless…

Incredulous

July 6th, 2011
3:27 pm

I wonder what the Broad and Gates Foundations will have to say concerning this wave of cheating. You think they’ll admit that being wildly successful doesn’t equate to success in education? Or, will they simply say nothing concerning this wave of cheating. @Out of the bag… Close the trailer door!

Another APS parent

July 6th, 2011
3:30 pm

The teachers in the APS report indicated the pay incentives were not the reason, and at $2,000 max, probably not:
public humiliation, daily persecution by your superiors, and loss of a job: gee, $2k more, or $45k less…
small carrot, nasty nail-studded stick

KID

July 6th, 2011
3:47 pm

Everyone is at fault except the PARENTS! At some point, our school systems need to realize that unless education starts at home, no amount of money or other incentives will lead to successful schools. We must begin holding parents accountable!

Former SPARK parent

July 6th, 2011
3:56 pm

@ Another APS Parent–I agree with you. It’s a matter of degree. You can insist that teachers push hard to get their students well-equipped to pass a ridiculously easy subminimal test like the CRCT. That’s fair. That SHOULD be the goal. The question is, what do you do if the teacher fails? Do you automatically blame the teacher or do you have leeway to figure out what’s really going on and fix it in another way?

The problem isn’t standardized tests. It’s the Bev Halls out there who stand to gain mightily (in fame and fortune) by literally threatening to take away the livelihoods of people who work for them if those people don’t make their numbers. It’s the school version of Glengarry Glen Ross, only Bev Hall is WAY scarier than Alec Baldwin.

Inescapable yet unspoken

July 6th, 2011
3:59 pm

Where are the lawyers?

Teachers need representation as they suffer through these “hostile work environment”.

This is the law of unintended consequences at its best!!

Inescapable yet unspoken

July 6th, 2011
4:00 pm

Lawyers–big guns! Why don’t you offer some help to these teachers victims of an hostile workplace?

Bruce Kendall

July 6th, 2011
4:02 pm

This, to some degree can happen in any school or school system. This is one of many reasons that School Councils need to be involved as prescribed by LAW, in your child’s school. I suspect if you were to investigate the level of School Council involvement in these APS schools, you would find that they are minimal at best, or compartmentalized to keep them ignorant of the schools true culture.

The question I am asking you, “How involved is your child’s School Council?” Over half of its members are parents with children in the school.

If you have questions about your child’s school – Contact one of your elected Parent School Council Representatives. They should know what is occurring in your child’s school.

To contact them call your child’s school office and ask to be put in contact with a parent representative. If you have a problem making that contact in Henry County, please let me know, as I will assist you in making that happen.

What are my qualifications on this matter? 6 years as a School Council member, 2 elementary, 3 Middle, and I just finished my first year at Eagles Landing High School. Of the last four years I participated as the council chair.

Unlike some who would portend to be an expert I do not. I am however knowledgeable, and will assist you in any way that I can.

nekb@charter.net or you can find me listed in the phonebook.

Former SPARK parent

July 6th, 2011
4:03 pm

By the way, a lot of age groups at SPARK got 100% passing rates in this year’s CRCTs. It’s a credit to those kids. But their teachers force-fed them CRCT prep all year long under the direction of principal Yolonda Brown (whose former school, CW Hill, had a 29% suspicious-erasure rate while she was there) while SPARK’s wonderful Mac lab and computer cart and iPod Touch cart were barely touched.

So SPARK parents, your kids spent the year memorizing test prep when they could have been creating wonderful photo slideshows, or composing a piece of music, or editing a video for their classroom blog–except wait–there ARE no such blogs, because blogs don’t help Yolonda Brown’s teaches hit their CRCT numbers.

Give me a choice between having my child essentially study all year for the CRCT and having them actually CREATE something; having them EXPLORE something; having them become INSPIRED.

Parents of high-upside children should be just as pissed off about Beverly Hall and the all-important CRCT as the parents of those children who were cheated.

Inescapable yet unspoken

July 6th, 2011
4:27 pm

@ Former SPARK parent 4:03

The situation you describe is probably the situation of a dog in a kennel with no opportunity to run about.

This is sweat shop education!

Walt Dervin

July 6th, 2011
4:28 pm

Sup’t Hall should be forced to return the $581,000 in bonuses that she “earned” since 2006.
We also may wish to fault George Bush since one of the integral parts of his “No Child Left Behind” program mandated yearly achievement, with the bar raised higher year after year.

Dekalbite

July 6th, 2011
4:44 pm

Testing mania has been a wonderful way to increase the number of non-teaching personnel who are certified to teach, especially in low income areas. The irony is that the classroom has been drained of funding and students are experiencing larger class sizes – just the opposite of what was supposed to happen. Look at the figures for APS:
APS:

2003-04:
Teacher/Administrator Ratio
10 : 1
Teacher/Support Person Ratio
10 : 1
Teacher/Staff Ratio
5 : 1

http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=102&CountyId=761&T=1&FY=2004

2009-10:
Certified Staff Position Ratios
Teacher/Administrator Ratio
8:1
Teacher/Support Person Ratio
10:1
Teacher/Staff Ratio
4:1

http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=102&CountyId=761&T=1&FY=2010

Kira Willis

July 6th, 2011
5:07 pm

This is really not so shcoking. I would like for people to take note, though, that Washington DC is on the list of cheating. I believe Michelle Rhee was the Chancellor there until last academic year, if memory serves. Yet she was invited to Georgia to wax poetic on how well DC did under her leadership.

If it’s too good to be true, it probably isn’t true.

No one will have 100% passing 100% of the time, and for NCLB and RTTT to say that it can be done is creating the cheating that is going on in our schools right now.

How about a realistic, common-sense approach to education? How about we allow teachers to actually teach? How about we stop pointing fingers and look to what we can individually do to make education better for all of our students?

Inman Park Boy

July 6th, 2011
5:14 pm

Let’s just eliminate all tests, all grades, all assessments, all…judgment. No rules about attendance, no certification of teachers, let’s allow kids start their school day when its convenient for them and their parents, tolerate family vacations in February. “Don’t worry, be happy!” That’s our mantra.

SW

July 6th, 2011
5:15 pm

The problem with “sweat shop education” is that students aren’t learning to think and solve problems. They are just basically learning to memorize. If they are presented with something that hasn’t been spoon fed to them, they have a difficult time reasoning through it to come up with the answers. (Many) Students barely want to do anything unless they see the immediate benefit to them. If the only thing they need to do is pass the test, then they have no incentive to learn how to think and reason and be creative.

But then again, we are teaching them that there are no consequences when they don’t do what they need to do or should do. After all, our feel good education policy dictates that no child will fail, no matter what they do or don’t do.

Middle School Teacher

July 6th, 2011
5:41 pm

The entire system is now suspect, and I sincerely do not understand why parents aren’t raising h@##. No Child Left Behind is the cause, and it has only been made worse by superintendents and administrators trying to make a name for themselves by rescuing the educational system of America. What really needs to be done is give control of the schools and classrooms back to the teachers. Get the legislature out of education. Get superintendents out of education. Get Principals out of education. Every school should be governed by teachers, and ONLY teachers. It is fine to have an administrative principal who runs the business, but every school should have a lead teacher with extensive, proven performance in the classroom. Most decisions are never run by the teachers, the ones with the personal contact with the students. Get rid of all the bull in the education system and turn it all over to the teachers. Give the country a national curriculum devisied by grade level by TEACHERS. Then, tell the teachers to teach and you would be amazed at the innovation you would see. I dare the country to try this. The end result would be motivated teachers and students. Rote memorization and teaching to the test MUST end. Testing, testing, testing, and testing must stop or cheating will become even more of the culture of schools.

amazed

July 6th, 2011
6:02 pm

I see a lot of throw the baby out with the bathwater. NLCB is for the first time identifying problems that were previously ignored. Its not perfect, but its not the problem. The cheating is due to unethical leaders. The problems with the learning were already there.

td

July 6th, 2011
6:12 pm

There has to be accountability in education. Is this NCLB or RTTT the answer probably not but we can not go back to just allowing “teachers to teach” with no accountability.

Why have we not looked at a system where we have the individual students “test scores” coming into a year and hold the teacher accountable for the progress the student made during the year? If the student is in the 5th grade and on a 2nd grade reading level at the beginning of the year and is on a 4th grade level by the end of the year then the teacher has exceeded expectations for that student. If a similar student stayed on a second grade level then the teacher did not meet for that student. I think if you add up all the achievement of all the students and average it you could get a pretty accurate assessment of the teachers effectiveness.

Just A Teacher

July 6th, 2011
6:25 pm

I’m disgusted by all this cheating. I’m not perfect at my job, but I don’t cheat, lie, or steal. All of these so called “leaders in education” (Beverly Hall, Michelle Rhee, etc.) should be charged with racketeering and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I work my butt off in the classroom for a fraction of what they stole from the public while sitting on their rear ends in an office. They have discredited my profession and need to be held accountable!

Middle School Teacher

July 6th, 2011
6:38 pm

Just a Teacher: I totally agree. I work an average of 11 hours a day making sure that I reach my students. Few realize just how hard dedicated teachers, the MAJORITY, work on a daily basis. These idiots involved in cheating deserve every possible punishment. If the state overlooks such blatant incompetency and immorality, we all need to throw in the towel. I have one year to go and I am happily “Out of Here.”

KenFromCalifornia

July 6th, 2011
6:58 pm

i think now kids graduating with no reading or math skills have, at last, a justification to sue.

they weren’t only passed along to the next grade, their credentials were falsified solely for the benefit of their teachers and administrators. no one can say with a straight face that doing this was to help the students…that charade is exposed the moment a kid tries to fill out a job application when high school is over.

“i didn’t know i wasn’t learning anything in school because i was told my test score improved every year.”

this is nothing more than a RICO-scale criminal enterprise that used fraud to fatten the wallets of every adult involved.

Cindy Lutenbacher

July 6th, 2011
7:00 pm

I’m with you, Middle School Teacher: let teachers teach. In my experience in the economically poorest schools, there are a few drops of uncaring teachers and an ocean of devoted ones whose hands are systematically being chopped off. I do wish for great principals to support teachers and nourish a learning community (with a healthy respect between teachers working together).

I guess I’ll just keep speaking out about the tests: they are invalid and, even with the best of tests, do not measure anything but the lowest level of skill and fact retrieval. Good teachers know how to assess student progress, and our efforts should be toward finding, nourishing, and paying the professionals who inhabit many/most classrooms.

NCLB did not identify a “problem” that had been overlooked before, not at all. For example, I recommend that you read Jonathan Kozol’s 1991 book, SAVAGE INEQUALITIES.

CatsRule

July 6th, 2011
7:05 pm

We need to overhaul education. If a child has not met the requirements for promotion to the next grade level, then they should be required to go to summer school to meet requirements, and if they do not, then they should be retained. If they are slower than the grade level peers, then perhaps they should be placed in classes grouped by ability. The less the ability, the lower the student teacher ratio should be. Also, there should be some form of accountability for the parents, perhaps in the form of having them sign the students’ homework assignments and upcoming project requirements. Perhaps if the students and parents were made to be active participants, they would take education seriously. A county wide alternative school, that services those who are not interested in academic matters, may help redirect students/parents who feel attendance, homework completion or appropriate behavior is not important. Just my 2 cents.

Paddy O

July 6th, 2011
8:06 pm

this can be typically anticipated once you increased the salary paid to teachers & administrators – the jobs were then valued for their salary, not their activity/purpose. As stated previously, our country has a crisis of character, which manifested itself in the real estate collapse & this plethora of testing scandals.

Paddy O

July 6th, 2011
8:07 pm

Cindy: Can you explain why the state BOE would NOT solicity input from teachers regarding the quality of the CRCT & other “final” exams? This makes no sense to me.

Paddy O

July 6th, 2011
8:08 pm

just a teacher – amen!

Paddy O

July 6th, 2011
8:15 pm

middle school teacher – that is rubbish. honorable people can NOT be made to cheat. You have people with little character teaching children, cherishing the job of teacher they hold for the salary it pays, not the work it accomplishes. I concur that NCLB has some asinine idealism in it, and, I would say that education is NOT a federal role, but it was one way to increase teacher/admin salaries – which seems to reinforce the position that the feds should not be involved (77 billion budget I believe last year – if you assume there are 200 million taxpayers, that works out to $385 per taxpayer).

Jerry Eads

July 6th, 2011
8:49 pm

@Incredulous, I’ll make a tentative bet that the two foundations may (I repeat, may) actually temper their organizational perspectives based on the data, and if Hall et. al. have served any purpose, it would be to aim an incredibly bright spotlight on the impact of excessive focus on “achievement” as measured by the pass rates (NOT scores) from state-mandated low-bid minimum competency tests. Let’s also hope that they – and we – learn something about the consequences of policies that focus on punishment for “failure.”

Jerry Eads

July 6th, 2011
8:59 pm

@Paddy O, you’re obviously not familiar with either the research or, for example, the behaviors forced on prisoners of the German “camps” during WW2. Ordinarily honorable people did unspeakable things in order to stay alive for one more hour or one more day. And ordinarily honorable people will do things they would never otherwisee consider when faced with the choice between feeding their children or losing their home. You are stupendously naive. Or narrowminded. Or uneducated. Likely all three; they’re rather highly correlated. That is not to say there are not many, many disohonorable people in the world – and yes, some of them will end up in education.

Fulton County Mom 55

July 6th, 2011
9:49 pm

I find it interesting that some Teach for America educators were implicated in the report. TFA was not named in the report but if you Google some of the names, you will see some interesting information.

doh

July 6th, 2011
10:55 pm

Lets let all the teachers in the state quit, because by now with scandal after scandal after scandal, the lack of any type of union, the state not giving cost of living wages, failure to make education any type of priority in the state that’s what is going to happen. All the teachers will leave for greener pastures, and parents will lose their free day care.

doh

July 6th, 2011
11:09 pm

Former SPARK parent: The problem isn’t the test? Have you actually seen one or proctored one? Lets go down the list of problems…First, the 6th and 7th grade Social Studies CRCT test a couple of years ago didn’t align at all with the standards, the state had to throw out the test that year. The next the test still didn’t align, and again the state didn’t count any of the scores, and the state told the public that the scores would not count. Yeah I bet those kids tried real hard. The SAME year, the 4th and 5th grade math tests had the wrong formula in it. The Department of Education said that’s ok its not important anyway. SO obviously the state department of ed doesn’t care. How about how we score these tests….Well first of all, you never know what you got right or wrong. You just get some crappy sheet of paper that tells you how you did in your breakdown. The 8th grade GA studies course requires students to memorize basically 300 useless history facts that they will never ever again see in life. The test asks about 30 questions in the history domain. So your going to tell me 30 random questions adequately determines the progress of a student in that class? How about kids that get scores in schools they never were in? Yes its possible (and it does happen) that a student can enroll in school A, then transfer to school B, take the CRCT test in school B, but his scores are reported as being in school A. So school A is responsible for kids they never teach. Or even better, and I know this happens a lot. You can have a student transfer in from out of state days before the CRCT test is given, that student has to take the test, and their scores COUNT. I knew a student who came to GA a day before the CRCT was given from ALASKA, failed all his tests, the scores counted against the school. Then there are the kids who count more than other kids. If you are a white kid with no disabilities, or are not living in poverty you count LESS than a kid who is special ed, a minority, an ELL student, or living below the poverty line. Because of the breakdowns GA uses if that white kid fails, he fails once. The other kid would fail 4 times! Once as a minority, once as an ELL student, once as special ed and once as being below the poverty line. How about when the tests are given. Most districts give the tests not at the end of the year (which makes sense) but in some cases with 2 months left! Chatham county gave their CRCT a couple of years ago with 8 weeks left in the school year! How can you compare their scores to someone in DeKalb lets say who gives their test with only 3-4 weeks left. Thats a month of instruction LOST.

No, you have NO clue of how poorly these tests are designed, how they measure NOTHING, how unfairly they are scored and counted against schools and teachers. People need to wake up, and realize these tests need to go not the teachers.

@Former SPARK Parent

July 7th, 2011
12:09 am

“Parents of high-upside children should be just as pissed off about Beverly Hall and the all-important CRCT as the parents of those children who were cheated.”

Good point.

Here is what the report says about C.W. Hill [sic, from AJC site, at least in my browser]:

C.W. HILL SCHOOL
CLOSED Principal: Yolanda Brown SRT-1 Executive Director: Dr. Sharon Dzivis-Williams
honing Coordinator: imooy Fletcher
I. INVESTICATI F, SUNINIARY
There is limited statistical evidence that cheating occurred on the CRCT at CW. Hill Elementary in 2009. Because C.W. Hill closed at the end of 2009, only one witness was interviewed at this school.
II. STATISTICAL DATA
2009 2010
Percentage ot` Classrooms Flaggcd for WTR Erasuics 29.4
Number ofClassm0ms Flagged Rn Hrastues l5
Number of Teachers Flagged for WTR Standand Deviations above W4.) 3.0 (Ntmiber of Teachers Flagged in Multiple Subjects)
Mean W’l`l< Standard Ileviations from State Norm 10.3
High Flagged Deviation 25.1
Low Flagged Standard Deviation 3.7
ANALYSIS OF EVIDENCE
For the 2009 CRCT at C.W. Hill, 29.4% of the classes exceeded three standard deviations from the State mean for wrong-to-right erasures. Fifteen teachers had classes exceeding three standard deviations. Although we have concerns, the evidence does not warrant further action."

But the same mindset appears to continue on into the new school, where high CRCT failure rates should no longer be a concern…

http://srt3.atlantapublicschools.us/210420722165023633/site/default.asp

http://srt3.atlantapublicschools.us/21042087205149750/blank/browse.asp?a=383&BMDRN=2000&BCOB=0&c=57736

Was beating another excellent APS elementary school by 2% points really worth the sacrifice you're describing? I'm thinking not.

Cindy Lutenbacher

July 7th, 2011
7:11 am

Paddy O, I’m not on the BOE, so I can’t know with certainty why teacher input regarding tests has been incorporated in only the most perfunctory of ways (if at all). My own study of the research about standardized testing shows me that the tests are NOT about kids, education, equality, or any of the words that the past and present administrations have used. The tests are about money and the incredibly huge industry that not only creates the tests and the (wildly expensive) textbooks to go with the tests, but also “serves” students with (often faux) tutoring corporations and now for-profit charter schools. [Not all charters are for-profit, but increasingly they are, I believe.]

I know that many people believe that the tests are for the betterment of children, but studying the testing movement over the past decade has shown me otherwise.

Of course, I believe in assessment, but it just needs to be authentic, not a rather monstrous creation that serves only one “need”: money.

Dr NO

July 7th, 2011
7:21 am

I noticed this rampant cheating is occuring in the “big cities.” And just where I wonder…The inner city?

Watch and Learn.

Paddy O

July 7th, 2011
9:01 am

Jerry: Is creating a demeaning box and then erroneously placing a person you disagree with in that box the manner in which unethical teachers respond to their critics? If expectations of teacher behavior is that they don’t cheat – and what was the purpose of their cheating? Keep their job? Because they could not get hired in another school district? Comparing life & death desperation to maintaining a job in an obviously immoral crap hole of a district is logical to you? You are attempting to explain away unethical behavior, which indicates a portion of you condones it. It is that type of moral relativistic, lowest common denominator leadership that provides the action that wwe see in Atlanta. Thank you for showing us you have such incredibly high standards. Dismiss what I say all you want, but it just means you are jaded and it appears highly likely lacking of morals yourself.

Paddy O

July 7th, 2011
9:09 am

Jerry – if highly educated people utilize utilitarian thought process, and dismiss moral activity as important (very highly likely in feminists & liberals – where abortion and fornication – and other immoral behavior – are typically accepted as just choice) – that quite easily explains the apparent crisis of character in this country. You can chalk it up to code words as “narrow minded” and “naive”, but I was not involve in this most embarassing episode of systematic immorality. Wonder why Nazi Germany happened? The same mindset that apparently fuels you.

ChristieS.

July 7th, 2011
9:59 am

Paddy O, if troglodyte neanderthals simply crawled back into their caves prior to spewing misogynistic verbal diarrhea, perhaps more rational minds could work towards consensus on ways to help improve our educational system and overall culture. By the way, google Godwin’s Law.

Incredulous

July 7th, 2011
10:17 am

@paddy o. There may be some comfort for you. Moral relativism has been around for awhile. Not everyone agrees with your views. This is the basis for our democracy. You have the right to express your opinion, and so does everyone else. Before you go hide in the woods and eat from dumpsters, search the author Helen Arendt. She sat in on the Eichmann trials and had some incredible insights involving both moral and immoral behavior. I define moral behavior as that behavior which benefits other than the individual and immoral behavior as that behavior which acts without regard for the influence on others.

Paddy O

July 7th, 2011
11:55 am

Christie S: Yes, by all means attempt to evade the truth. Feminists push for & support abortion. That is immoral. I have already read Godwin’s law, and I beleive my assertion that the environment that created Nazi Germany is similar to that which panders to the moral relativists, which Mr. Eads does in his response to me. Naive? Narrow minded? Are those not words intended to demean & marginalize my comments? Which are simply that ethical people behave ethically. Unethical liberals ignore personal moraliy while demanding group idealism, which is a manifestation of asinine idealism (most sociology studies document that the group is generally far less moral than the individual). Do you honestly disagree that feminist do NOT support fornication & abortion? Also, not all females are feminists. Just as all conservatives are not Republican. Feminists & liberals can stick their head as far in the sand as they wish, but you reap what you sow. If you polled the members of APS – what party do you think they voted for?

Paddy O

July 7th, 2011
11:59 am

Incredulous – that is one aspect of moralism – but you are focusing on an aspect called altruism, which MLK is probably the best modern example of. BUT, the raise in teacher salaries could be quite easily assumed to attract people who did the job for the pay, not the innate value & joy of teaching the next generation. Once the motivation was pay, it is also easily anticipated that those receiving those terrific benefits would not want to lose them because the kids they are teaching were not learning the mandated information, for whatever reason. So, they gamed the system – which apparently the State BOE failed to exercise due diligence in creating a system that was at least somewhat tamper proof. What steps has the state BOE taken since this cheating capacity became apparent to prevent this from re-occurring? Anything?

Incredulous

July 7th, 2011
12:01 pm

@paddy o, you’re arguing in circles. Fornication and abortion? Really? Are you suggesting that you and you alone are the moral clarion for the rest of us? People aren’t buying what you’re selling. After awhile, when the rapture still hasn’t happened, you lose crediblity.

Paddy O

July 7th, 2011
12:01 pm

Christie S- you are good example of the intolerant liberal.

Paddy O

July 7th, 2011
12:05 pm

incred – you are reaffirming the danger of moral relativism. Lets take them 1 at a time: Is abortion moral? That is relatively easy. Is fornication moral? That has more depth to the discussion, but considering the tremendous negative impacts – beyond the ingrained one way train to poverty, it is immoral to participate in. Just because the member of the Soddom & Gomorroh society are too jaded to acknowledge it, does not mean it is a simple choice. Tell me your opinion of these behaviors, then I can see your perspective better. In my opinion, they are objective moral elements. Participate in them, and you are behaving immorally. Reject them, and you are behaving, albeit passively, in a moral realm.

Incredulous

July 7th, 2011
12:12 pm

@paddy o, in order to argue morality, we have to agree on a definition of moral behavior. You can’t have it both ways. I offered my definition, what is yours? Your dualistic forced choice for motivating teachers is confusing. I surmise that we don’t work or perform a function for just one reason. Why do you choose extremes? There are many “gray” areas that define humans. I love what I do, but I also have responsibilities that are satisfied with money. Do I think the pay incentives are too high? Yes I do! I also think that teachers should be receiving the lions share of the pay structure. The further from the classroom a person is, the less infuence they have on student achievement. I’d like to see a bonus and merit system that excluded administrators, unless they carry a class. I’d also like to see a salary cap put in place for anyone not in direct student contact. Paddy O, we need more transparency. Any parent is welcome in my classroom at anytime. Most teachers are open books, very eager to share and learn. I can’t say the same for administrators, central office staff, and state personell.

Incredulous

July 7th, 2011
12:15 pm

Paddy O, yours is a religious justification, not a moral argument. I won’t bait you any further.

ChristieS.

July 7th, 2011
12:15 pm

PaddyO, thank you, and your comments “(very highly likely in feminists & liberals – where abortion and fornication – and other immoral behavior – are typically accepted as just choice)” are just a model of rational and unbiased thought.

I never claimed to be conservative, moderate, OR liberal. My personal politics have nothing at all to do with an objection to misogynistic and craven badinage masquerading as rational thought.

Motherism

July 8th, 2011
9:55 am

Fair testing needs to be demostrated throughout Georgia. I don’t condem cheating on tests. Because in the end the children suffer. This gives them a false sense of reality. But I believe that the state is targeting the districts with a higher population of Blacks. NO child left behind has cause education to become more and more test driven. I believe that cheating is taken place in more than the Black populated schools. Society would posion your mind and have you think that Whites and other none black cultures do better on standardized test than Blacks. Well I don’t believe it. I truly believe that there are several forms of the test that is distributed throughout the state of Georgia. The harder verison of the test is administered in the higher populated Black schools and the easier verison administered the higher populated White schools.