Everybody is talking about education. Is anyone listening?
"Incarceration is becoming the new American apartheid, and poor children of color are the fodder," said Marian Wright Edelman (Children's Defense Fund)
Over the past few weeks Georgia has been the epicenter of education debate, hosting some of the most notable — and controversial — voices in the field today.Speaking to the Georgia School Boards Association in Savannah 10 days ago, historian Diane Ravitch urged, “Don’t stand by and let politicians tear down a public institution that has been the foundation of our democracy for 150 years.”
Reminding the audience that more than 90 percent of Georgia’s students attend public schools, Ravitch, author of “The Death and Life of the Great American School System, ” said: “We must improve those public schools. We must not pretend those children don’t exist while we are creating more choices for 2 [percent] to 3 percent of them.”
Following her to the podium was a politician, Gov. Nathan Deal, who won applause with his pledge, “We have to restore the joy of teaching to our teachers. And that means diverting away from the concept that everything hinges on a CRCT score.” (If that sounds familiar, it’s because Deal, the candidate, said much the same thing to the same group last year in Savannah.)
Last week, the National Charter Schools Conference brought 4,000 charter school advocates and a pantheon of national figures to Atlanta, from former President Bill Clinton to Newark Mayor Cory Booker.
U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan spoke to the conference attendees from Washington, telling them, “I think one of the most insidious things that’s happened in this country over the past couple of decades has been the dumbing down of standards for children. In far too many states, including the state I come from, Illinois, we have been lying to children and lying to families in telling them they are prepared for college and careers when, in fact, they are nowhere near ready.”
The charismatic and fiery Mayor Booker was more preacher than politician in his speech, calling education the new civil rights challenge and declaring, “We fought the greatest war on American soil for the liberation of our people yet we imprison more and more of our own in prisons of ignorance every single day.”
Children’s Defense Fund president Marian Wright Edelman also spoke at the charter conference and amplified Booker’s theme of ending the cradle-to-prison pipeline.
“Public education is the battleground for the future and soul of America, ” she said. “Today education is the Freedom Ride and the sit-in movement of this era.”
Edelman described the moment in which she realized the desperation of many poor children’s lives. The day after the murder of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. in Memphis, Edelman went into Washington, D.C., schools to warn students not to riot or loot because arrests would hurt their futures.
A boy about 12 looked Edelman in the eye and said, “Lady, what future? I ain’t got no future. I ain’t got nothing to lose.”
“I have spent the last 40 years and will spend the rest of my life proving that boy’s truth wrong, ” Edelman said. “I had no idea how hard it would be. This boy saw and spoke the plain truth for himself and millions of others like him.
“Despite great progress for some over the last 40 years, so much peril remains to snuff out the hopes and dream of children like him, ” she said. “Incarceration is becoming the new American apartheid, and poor children of color are the fodder.”
America’s most pressing dangers come not from an enemy without, she said, but from a failure within to invest in its children.
Quoting Frederick Douglass, Edelman said, “It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men.”
Donald L. Hense, a Morehouse College graduate and founder of the Friendship Public Charter School in Washington, came to Atlanta to receive a hall of fame award from the charter conference. Hense’s charter high school, which awarded its first diploma in 2003, awarded its 2,000th this year.
As the student representative on the Morehouse board of trustees, Hense served alongside King, who was a Morehouse grad. When King was killed, Hense ushered at the funeral. In the aftermath of King’s assassination, Hense recalled sleeping in his Atlanta dorm room with buckets of water for fear of bombs and fire.
“What with everything that we faced in the 1960s, I feel threatened more today as a part of the so-called education reform community than I did then, ” he said.
“Our schools are threatened not by people who don’t believe in charters or school choice, but by education reformers who believe that reform is best charted and directed by the same public school system that did nothing the previous 100 years, ” he said.
Hense said the charter movement is under siege, adding that he lives in “a city that will try to kill charters by a thousand cuts. Every single year, something happens to try to knock the legs of education reform from under charter schools, every single year.”
“Somehow, we have to find a balance between the undertow caused by those who justify the continued existence of failing schools and the overzealousness of TV reformers who believe that schools can be transformed in 20 months, ” he said.
“We cannot allow the continued mindset of either these groups to prevail, ” Hense told his audience at the Georgia World Congress Center. “Our children’s lives depend on those of us who believe that the liberating value of education is too important to be left to either group. Thoughtful reforms with a clear sense of urgency, without gimmickry, must take the lead.”
When you attend these education events and hear how many dedicated people are working toward better schools, from small-town school board members to former U.S. presidents, you have to wonder if anyone is listening.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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284 comments Add your comment
gamom
June 28th, 2011
10:42 pm
BTW the National Association of School Nurses has a Strong Position statement against it as well, as do many many professional organizations of educators and healthcare professional organizations
gamom
June 28th, 2011
10:46 pm
Here is an article regarding a Ban just instituted in a private Catholic School in New Orleans – Bravo to them!
http://www.nola.com/religion/index.ssf/2011/06/new_josephite_leader_reasserts.html
Incredulous
June 28th, 2011
10:49 pm
@gamom. That legislators would claim no knowledge of the activity comes as no surprise. When was the last time your representative spent a day in your schools? Other than stopping corporal punishment, what specific and detailed discipline plan do you suggest? What specifc discipline method works for your family? Do you, or have you spanked your own children? Please answer my dog bite scenario.
gamom
June 28th, 2011
10:56 pm
Incredulous – can you answer my questions as to where you teach. No of course I don’t hit my kids. Parenting is hard work that takes brain power, not brawn power. And frankly, I’m a bit disturbed that anyone would condone hitting kids on blogposts. I find it odd and troubling. But that’s just me. You know what works for my family? Consistency and real world consequences. And we change it up now and then. You make a mess, you clean it up. Get it? A couple of times making them eat humble pie is always a nice touch – like writing a detailed letter of apology and having them write out what choice they would make next time. Of course, as a parent, my responsibility is to know what is appropriate and what is not, shouldn’t teachers be expected to do the same? I am not sure how to respond to your dog scenario. Not enough detail there.
Stacy
June 28th, 2011
10:58 pm
I am glad that you are in a good district Gamom. it is great for your kids to be in such a great system, but I am going to guess that you are in a high socioeconomic district, where most kids have 2 parents at home that encourage them to do their very best. I do not think that spanking in schools is the best case option, but it worked back when I was in school in my county. My daughter just completed 5th grade and there was a student in her class that was 14 years old who was just waiting until he turn 16 to drop out. He bullied all of the kids and was a major disruption daily in class. His parents would not return calls from the school and even told the school on one occasion that they didn’t care what he done because he was going to work in his dad’s shop when he drops out. How is a teacher supposed to deal with a situation like that while trying to help the other students to succeed?
gamom
June 28th, 2011
11:05 pm
Aaaah bullying, the ever present problem in schools. It’s a shame, really. That’s where I think schools need to implement a bully prevention program, not just do a training and that’s it, but really embrace and implement one. It works. Most of these programs are available by grants. School districts just need to apply. Mine did. At the request of parents. Stacy – you said yourself that classroom management is barely touched on in progress. I think you just named a legitimate problem that should be addressed. I’m not saying that paddling didn’t have its place back in the maybe 50’s and 60’s. But highly inappropriate now. I think we can do better than that.
gamom
June 28th, 2011
11:08 pm
Stacy – you said yourself that classroom management is barely touched on in progress. – meant to say ‘in college’. My brain and fingers are not cooperating at this late hour – sorry
Stacy
June 28th, 2011
11:19 pm
I understand. That is how a teacher feels after hours of dealing with students who do not want to be there, and do not care if they learn anything and with parents who feel the same way. All they care about is that the “day care” is free.
Incredulous
June 28th, 2011
11:23 pm
@gamom, am I to assume that you don’t have a solution to discipline problem in our schools? I find it troubling and odd that you would be so arrogant as to ascert your parenting over my own and other parents as well. What I find most disturbing is your complete disregard of other people’s opinions. Please submit your detailed discipline plan that is both fair and effective. Feel free to cut and paste from any school system you choose. As a result of NCLB, schools are limited to the days a student can be assigned OSS ( resulting from attendence requirements). What to do with the incorrigible ones is the conundrum. The behaviors that you fail to mention are the very ones that limit the educational experience of the remainder of students. If your child’s teacher shamed them rather than writing up the infraction, what would be your response? If your child were to be assaulted or bullied in school, what advice would you give your child on how to respond? Would you advocate that they defend themselves? Would you tell them to go to the teacher, or the counselor? I can’t believe that you are at all familiar with education. Remember that private schools have the luxury of dismissing students that fail to follow the code of conduct. This is more or less what happens in the public domain, courtesy of the judicial system, when the same incorrigibles fail to play by the rules when they reach 18. In some cases, sooner. I’d rather give them a painful reminder and a second chance than send them home, where we can’t help, or ignore the behavior and have the remainder of the student body suffer the consequences or run the risk of litigation resulting from the parents of students that were harmed because the school failed to act.
gamom
June 28th, 2011
11:26 pm
Well, I’m only speaking from a parent perspective – yeah – kids can be a real pain, but you do what you gotta do as a parent. Nurses have to deal with drug addicts who keep overdosing, they don’t up and quit, – they do what they do, because they love what they do. Or with non-compliant patients who refuse to take their insulin and not eat candy bars. Should we all just throw up our hands and say fuggetaboutit? I don’t think so.
To your point incredulous about whether I taught – if you count me volunteering in the classroom for reading groups I don’t know . I also have been reading lately on Restorative Justice – I don’t know if this model can be applied in schools, but some of the things I have read makes total sense, such as mediation, restitution and community service. I think that I have read of a few schools using these models rather than the one size fits all of ISS and OSS, etc. or corporal punishment (which is an abject failure on the part of the school and system of course)
gamom
June 28th, 2011
11:29 pm
So incredulous – does your school have a bully prevention program, like Olweus?
gamom
June 28th, 2011
11:33 pm
BTW I guess you can say I have had my child be one of the incorrigible ones. She had a hearing deficit for a while, rather severe one, which neither I or the teacher picked up, Consequently she either acted out or appeared to ignore instruction. The problem was SHE COULD NOT HEAR. It was up to me to figure out the problem. Nobody else did. So glad she wasn’t in a district that paddled. She would have probably end up getting spanked for something she couldn’t help. You see my point incredulous. My perspective is a very valid one, just different than yours.
Incredulous
June 28th, 2011
11:43 pm
@gamom, I am very, very glad your child’s disability was discovered. Please elaborate. Hearing and visual are one of the 1st issues explored when a student is having problems. Most, but not all, audio/visual dysfunction is picked up very early, typically no later than the 1st half of kindergarten. Screenings are routine and can be completed if not by the school, then the public health department, or your family physician. Did none of her teacher’s suggest that she be examined? As for paddling her; I don’t think we’re discussing the same behaviors, unless hers included strikiing out at other students or the teacher.
gamom
June 28th, 2011
11:50 pm
Nobody suggested I get her checked for that at the school, but of course I worked with my family physician, The problem took some time to get worked out and resolved. And if a child is acting out in a physical manner, like striking out at others, what are you TEACHING then by paddling such a child. The acting out has got to have a cause and needs to be investigated, and the child does not need manhandling by an adult or authority figure. That is not the answer. Perhaps the child is hungry, perhaps the child has a hidden disability like autism. Acting out can be a common problem in autism. Paddling an undiagosed autistic is not going to get anyone anywhere, except maybe more aggression. I do have friends who have children with Autism, I have been around these children. They often cannot express themselves properly. Maybe they have something going on at home. And this is the only way a child can express themselves. There is something not right with the child. Teaching them should never include hitting them, no? Why am I so wrong here. Please elaborate.
gamom
June 28th, 2011
11:54 pm
Or maybe the child only strikes out because That is what they know from a domestic violence situation. They see mom or dad hit each other to resolve problems, so they mimic what they see. So how then is hitting them or paddling them going to help the situation? How does this logic apply.
Ima Teacher
June 28th, 2011
11:59 pm
Jerry Eads is right on! Gerald Bracey’s “Setting the Record Straight” should be REQUIRED reading of every teacher and parent in America. Don’t buy the rhetoric advanced by the so-callled “school reformers” and the writers (uh, lawyers) of NCLB. It’s not the dire picture they paint. Dr. Trotter is also correct. Lack of discipline in our schools is our #1 problem. Why? Because we are an individualistic society, not a collectivist society like China and the other Asian countries that are “ahead of us.” American children are taught by their parents & society that they are the center of the universe; in China, it’s the group that’s important. Children there would never do anything in class that would be disruptive or harmful to the group’s learning–they would “lose face” and bring shame to their family. Teachers are also revered in China–seen almost as gods. BIG difference from our society, don’t you think? Add to the mix, that many of our children are raising themselves. Mom & Dad are too busy working or going out to spend time with their children. If nobody tells me what to do at home, why in the world would I listen to anyone at school?? In China, multiple generations live together–there is always a family member, usually grandparents, to take care of the children. BTW, Bracey shows in his book that the US ranks 13th in the world–not that bad really, when there are hundreds of countries listed. Read his book!! You can get it on Amazon.
Stop saying teachers “get the summers off.” We get June & July off, period. Most start back to school around Aug. 3rd or 4th. Those eight weeks are just long enough to recover physically and mentally before we go back in the trenches. And many teachers are going to workshops, doing planning, going in early to get their room ready for August, etc. etc. during our “vacation.” Stop bashing teachers–most are doing all they can and then some to teach YOUR children.
ATL Teacher
June 29th, 2011
12:00 am
Going of on this tangent is proof that everyone is TALKING. Are you listening? This sounds ridiculous. Discipline is just one example of what educators and teachers disagree on. We will never fix anything if we continue in this manner. Fact: Most Asian countries have few discipline problems yet we want to compare and try to outbeat their results so I do agree with other posters that discipline seems to be a major ingredient. Let’s stop fussing, look at the facts, and DO SOMETHING.
Incredulous
June 29th, 2011
12:08 am
@gamom, teachers do look for root causes. Really. I won’t make the leap to teaching an autistic child with corporal punishment. I agree. That would be akin to kicking a bird dog on point. However, I wasn’t discussing autism or similar disabilities. I am pointing out that there are many, many students that lack discipline and that paddling has it’s place as a deterrence, in lieu of removal from school. Under current mainstreaming models, ALL children are placed in the same room, resulting in all those little differences magnifying one another. As a result of placement, and not classroom management, modern classrooms can resemble rush hour at a fast food restaurant. Unfortunately, there are always outliers that manufacturer a disability either for benefits or as a ” get out of jail free” card to play whenever they are caught. I suggest that we establish a judicial arm that penalizes parents that fail to render aid and discipline to their children. We could establish a family court that metes out penalties from fines to jail time when the students act inappropriately. Couple the court with mandatory parenting classes. Once all casual circumstances are identified and we are certain that the behaviors result from either bad parenting or bad kids, we could let the consequences roll. Recurring breeches would be met with harsher penalties. What do you think?
gamom
June 29th, 2011
12:11 am
Incredulous – the screenings offered at the school are just screenings. A lot of things are missed plus it does not account for conditions that may wax or wane in severity. So while my kid did get an initial screening – it did not pick up on the issue. I don’t want to become like China or Asia. But I do want my children educated and prepared for the real world. Asian countries have an extremely high suicide rate too. I am all for year round school and school choice. I think kids lose too much over those summer weeks, and they would be better served by going all year with intermittent breaks throughout the year. But I’m not sure that would be a very popular suggestion among educators.
Ima Teacher
June 29th, 2011
12:15 am
Gamom, I agree that teachers should not paddle students for any reason. Your idea of having them write a letter of apology or write what choice they would make next time is good, except for one tiny problem. That’s “humiliating” the student and will also “make them hate writing,” according to most principals I’ve come across. Not allowed. Can’t make them stand or sit in the corner either (see the first reason above). In fact, there is very little that a teacher can do anymore about students who won’t cooperate. Even if you asked them to write something, and they told you to “Go #&%@ yourself” What would you do? Send them to the office? The administrators don’t like that–makes them think you can’t control your class. Call their parents? And get cursed out or threatened by them?? Are you getting the picture? Go teach in a middle or high school for one week, then come back and give us your wisdom.
gamom
June 29th, 2011
12:17 am
Incredulous – I see that you would like to see schools have more power into parents lives, and be bigger and badder. That is not a conservative tenet whatsoever. School choice is. I want the federal dollars to follow my kid. I pay into the system, I should be able to choose. And I think you might be missing my point, THERE are many kids in the mainstream who may be autistic, who may have a bad home life, may have violence in their home… you never know which one that is if you’re using paddling and using that throughout the school career, when you could have used another way that was not detrimental in the longterm. While hitting a kid might work for that instant, what are you teaching any child in the long term? Nothing. Incorrigible or not, nobody deserves to be hit. Otherwise they’d be doing it in nursing homes, in prisons, in juvenile justice detention centers – but guess what – they don’t. The only place its done is in schools still. Sad. Just because it was acceptable in the 1950’s doesn’t mean its the right thing to do now. How about a bully prevention program or restorative justice?
Incredulous
June 29th, 2011
12:25 am
@gamom. You can’t fall for every new age ideal that come into the light. Somewhere, someone is making money on the QVC anti bullying. discipline program that the system buys. Ma’am, we can’t afford to do things your way. I don’t want to pay for your mistakes.
gamom
June 29th, 2011
12:25 am
To imateacher – yeah I can see that happening. of course what I do at home, maybe different than what is feasible in school. What about restorative justice, community service, Saturday School? (remember the Breakfast Club
I can see if writing is overused a kid could hate writing. Of course, these days I don’t see a lot of writing going on, more stuff seems to be done via computer than anything, so their argument may be moot these days. I think you can use any one thing and it can be overused and even abused. I know what works for one certainly doesn’t work for the other either. I like the idea of community service (of course if approved by a parent as well), like cleaning up a classroom. Whatever happened to those days? A kid is learning absolutely nothing from losing instruction time with OSS, perhaps its even re-inforcing the behavior you want to correct. What better way to get out of responsibility than with OSS? Let’s see hitting them creates more aggression, and OSS might even reinforce the bad behavior – what about really investigating what the heck is going on with the kid, and get some interventions in place. I know, it’s a lot to ask, but I think something better must be done.
Ima Teacher
June 29th, 2011
12:26 am
Gamom, many teachers DO like year-round school–cheaper to travel on the off-seasons. But of those that are actually doing it, I have heard from many that the kids forget over each break just like they do in the summer, so you feel like you are constantly starting over all year. And the data on year-round school has not shown that it increases test scores, either. Parents with students in multiple levels (at different schools) may not have all of their children off at the same time, making it difficult for working parents to take care of the ones that are off. In other words, their children might be on different “tracks” with some in school and some on break–a working parent’s nightmare!
gamom
June 29th, 2011
12:32 am
Incredulous – I have seen the Anti Bullying program Work. Apparently, everything I suggest is disregarded by you. How about being part of the solution and not part of the problem. I am part of the solution, I have been at the school and volunteered. I am involved where I can be. I wish I can do more, Unfortunately I cannot at this time. But believe me I do give back when I can. I want to see ALL kids succeed, not just my own. And the way I see it from these blogs, its not the kids with the problem. They need to be taught how to be successful in all aspects of life. How we treat our minors is a reflection of our society. Are they disrespectful? You betchya! And so was I back in the day. But I had darn good teachers who I looked up to and respected, I can’t tell you how much I was inspired by a select few. The ones I had the most respect for would never lay a hand on any kid – whether they were incorrigible or not. But I have also seen those that need to move on and get another job too.
Stacy
June 29th, 2011
12:37 am
Well said Ima Teacher. Another reason that Asian countries and other parts of the world are ahead of us is because we require all children to go to school. In many other countries, only the best are allowed to continue their education. Gamom– I don’t agree with Autistic children being spanked, and I only think that spanking should be a last result for regular Ed kids who are constant behavior problems. I am sorry that your daughter’s issue was not caught by the teacher, but as Incredulous said ” modern classrooms can resemble rush hour at a fast food restaurant” I was not diagnosed until the last semester of my senior in high school with dyslexia, so I can understand your frustration. How is school choice suppose to work? What if there is only 1 school in your district? Are students in that situation discriminated against because they don’t have a choice. Who is considered a good teacher, one who teaches in the best district and has the best scores where no child fails the CRCT, or a teacher who has ELL students, students below the poverty line, single and no parent homes, low socioeconomic, and a community that does not support their school, but only 10% fail the CRCT? Which is the best teacher?
Ima Teacher
June 29th, 2011
12:37 am
Saturday school?? Who’s going to run it? Who’s going to pay for it? Answer: no one. Can’t force a child to do manual labor or community service either. Not even having them pick up paper around the schools or take out trash. Not allowed!! Punishment of that sort is left up to the parents. My solution would simply be to send them home after 3 referrals for disruptive behavior, and they don’t get back in without a parent conference with the teacher and principal. The second time they get sent home, mom and/or dad can put them in private school or alternative school. Incidently, this won’t ever happen either. The last thing the police and society want is for a bunch of delinquents to be running around all day and getting into trouble. A principal actually said this to me as a reason why more students aren’t suspended! So……don’t you want to be a teacher now?? : )
NewMinority
June 29th, 2011
12:41 am
A trip down memory lane…..
“On the Hudson MRS Design Team, William Bennett served as chairman with Dennis Doyle, Chester Finn, Jr., Pierre du Pont IV and Lamar Alexander (former Education Secretary under George Bush). Chester Finn, author of AMERICA 2000 with Lamar Alexander, also sits on the National Education Goals Panel for GOALS 2000. Chester Finn and DIANE RAVITCH are co-directors of the Thomas Fordham Foundation’s Educational Excellence Network, which works with Hudson Institute, and also direct the Education Policy Institute (EPI), bringing together GOALS 2000 players with Heritage Foundation’s Center for Education Reform.”
More on the Hudson Institute:
http://watch.pair.com/Hudson.html
Ima Teacher
June 29th, 2011
12:45 am
Well said Stacy! It’s time we stop treating the education of children like we are making widgets. The one-size-fits-all approach of NCLB needs to GO! One test score does not an educated child make. And 100% of U.S. students are supposed to pass (or meet the arbitrarily set “standards”) by 2014? When donkeys fly!
Ima Teacher
June 29th, 2011
12:50 am
Well done NewMinority–you’ve named in one paragraph almost all of the people responsible for screwing up education!! Read Gerald Bracey’s book–”Setting the Record Straight.”
Ima Teacher
June 29th, 2011
1:05 am
The elitist philosophy of the Hudson Institute was expressed by SCANS committee and CFR member, Thomas Sticht, in the following statement:
“Many companies have moved operations to places with cheap, relatively poorly educated labor. What may be crucial, they say is dependability of a labor force and how well it can be managed and trained not its general educational level, although a small cadre of highly educated creative people are essential to innovation and growth.”–from their website (see above).
Great. Who gets to decided whose children get to be in that small cadre of highly educated creative people? Who gets to decide which children get to be “managed and trained?” The NewMinority??
gamom
June 29th, 2011
1:38 am
@Imateacher – they do Saturday school in TX, and I know for a fact they were doing Saturday school in my own district couple years ago. I don’t know if it is continuing. But apparently there are districts who have been able to continue this even in these hard economic times. It sounds to me like a lot of people put the walls up at suggestions – you don’t know if it would work until and unless it is tried. If a parent/community signs off on community service (as long as there is supervision), what is the problem. If it is presented to the community and it is studied (perhaps start a task force with parents and teachers as members), you’d get the ball rolling. I know that’s more work, but oh well! If Georgia can allow educators to hit kids, they sure can allow community service. Schools are supposed to allow parents to be involved – not just in the PTA to raise money, but in policy making as well
gamom
June 29th, 2011
1:46 am
Again I am asking – how about Restorative Justice – What do you say Incredulous? BTW, where did you say you teach?
Here is info on Restorative Justice – there are schools implementing it. Maybe the schools that don’t have it ought to reach out to the Denver Public Schools and ask them how they are doing…
http://www.restorativejustice.org/editions/2008/september08/denverschools
Middle School Teacher
June 29th, 2011
9:05 am
William Casey: I cannot believe my eyes. As I was reading the many inputs to this discussion, I was talking with my spouse, saying that I thought one of the solutions to all the problems would be to have an administrative principal and instructional principal. The very next input I read was “yours.” I was amazed that you had the exact recommendation. Maybe someone will read and listen.
Stacy
June 29th, 2011
9:43 am
Gamom–
How does Saturday school work? How many days a year do they go? Is it still 180 but the year is shorter, or do they go an additional 27 days? In these economic times where some districts are only going 160 and 170 days, how could they afford to go longer? If it was the additional days, the cost would be in the incredible. Gas for buses, addition pay for the teachers, office and cafeteria workers, and electricity just to name a few. That would also put the teachers over 40 hours a week (although they all surpass that now). Would they get time and a half for that? The added expense would bankrupt the already struggling state.
gamom
June 29th, 2011
10:10 am
@Stacy – I am referring to Sat school as only being used as a part of a comprehensive discipline plan, so the need would have to be determined at the individual school. It does not cost that much, if an aide or sub is used for it. Maybe a once a month thing, but that would have to be determined at the individual school
gamom
June 29th, 2011
10:12 am
And I do agree that it would make sense to have an instructional principal and an administrative principal, but to be cost effective, the pay for each would have to be lowered.
gamom
June 29th, 2011
10:37 am
If folks are so concerned about discipline or school climate as I prefer to call it, why not attend a local school council meeting and make your concerns known? That’s really a good way to effect change at the individual school level.
Darren Beck
June 29th, 2011
11:03 am
All due respect to Dr. Ravitch, but her oversimplification regarding the impact of the American Education system shows signs of selective memory. There has never really been a single system in this nation. With each reform effort, there has been something that has lingered, thus changing, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse our overall system. And the cold, hard truth is that a system combining 19th century education and 20th century management is hardly what 21st century students need to be truly successful. I find it the height of academic and political hypocrisy that instead of laying out an action plan, all she and other status quo protectors do–supported by the Georgia State Supreme Court–is berate and denigrate charter schools. Where are the actual plans that support real, powerful student improvement and achievement? They don’t have anything other than invective and negativity. America faces hard issues not the least of which is a staggering drop out rate and a shrinking graduation rate and ever weaker follow through regarding students entering college or vocational programs who actually finish. The last thing we can do as a country is wring our hands and hope things clear up on their own. We’ve all got to roll up our sleeves and get to work. The kids will do the heaviest lifting, but we ALL have to change the direction we are going.
Worried in Cobb
June 29th, 2011
11:48 am
gamom, Saturdays school does not work. I’ve run it at my current school and only 20% of kids show up while the other 80% end up getting ISS which ends up crowding ISS and only making the situation worse. When a student is assigned Saturday school their parents are called to give them a heads up and still we are missing 80% of our kids. Do you have any other ideas for discipline?
Ronin
June 29th, 2011
12:19 pm
It appears that the issue has turned to lack of discipline and punishment by spanking.
While spanking may be effective in certain situation, it does not solve the problem.
Many of the disgruntled children come from families with little or no support and they don’t want to be at school. The mandatory education law is, in my opinion, like trying to drag a a horse to the well to drink. It just won’t work.
In dealing with middle to high school kids, you need to separate them into two groups, those that want to learn and advance and those that are doing their time.
Focus on the advancement group, with few distractions, the learning process for the student and teacher will be much easier. As far as the “challenged group”, set basic math, reading and writing goals. I mean basic. Then give them the choice, when you can pass the basic test, you are free to stop attending alternative school. Go to work at Wendy’s or any other fast food place, any place you can get a job. There will always be people that will aspire to get by. The alternative is, leave school without passing the basic test, you forfeit your right to any type of public assistance. NONE. You are on your own, This would be school true school choice.
The other issues would work themselves out.
As far as the Charter schools, it’s worth a shot.
Worried in Cobb
June 29th, 2011
12:28 pm
Ronin, great idea about the two tracks, however, many people believe that you will hurt one groups feelings. Plus, you’ll be labeling kids and that is also wrong is a lot of peoples eyes.
gamom
June 29th, 2011
12:30 pm
Saturday school – of course you’ll have some no shows. I am not buying that it is 80% – how do YOU calculate that? What I am suggesting is only part and parcel of a COMPREHENSIVE all around school climate plan. Nothing will work if there is only 1 or 2 options. I think we need to change the conversation away from punitive punishment to addressing school climate as a whole. To Worried in Cobb – the hearing in D.C. on Corporal punishment this past spring – revealed many school districts who implemented comprehensive plans that did work. Go and watch the video tape – I invite anyone to watch the hearing – because there were good examples of what worked and what didn’t.
gamom
June 29th, 2011
12:34 pm
This Youtube is for Incredulous – Please pay attention to what the mother says who has a son with diagnosed Schizophrenia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jWnaA1C-SY
Bottom line is – educators need to stop hitting kids here in Georgia. New Mexico banned corporal punishment in schools just a month or two ago. It’s time GA does the same.
Ronin
June 29th, 2011
12:48 pm
@worried in Cobb, you’re correct. The idea would be labeled by some as divisive or some would play the race card. The truth is, you can be the best teacher in the world, but you can’t teach kids that don’t want to learn. Trying to make everyone “equal” and “not left behind” is killing the public/government school system.
I’ve been to third world countries and seen the poverty and conditions that people live in, yet, for the most part, they’re happy. The family unit is more cohesive, they have less, but are still happy.
If children saw how most other people in the world lived, they might realize how lucky they are to live here. The key is, to give them a choice, not dictate to them what they are going to do. Life is full of choices and you learn from the good and the bad.
The other myth that needs to be dismissed is that everyone needs to go to college.
Worried in Cobb
June 29th, 2011
1:03 pm
gamon, considering I ran it for several years before we switched it to improve our percentage I saw the numbers. After school had been in session for a month or so we were getting about 120 signed up with only getting about 25 show up. You do the math and tell me that’s not pretty dang close.
Worried in Cobb
June 29th, 2011
1:07 pm
Ronin, I agree. I would like to see two tracks set up for kids. One that prepares kids for college and one that prepares them for a trade. Every year I seen numerous kids who just want to be a mechanic or electrician drop out because they don’t want to learn all the other stuff (which some of it is needed)
gamom
June 29th, 2011
1:25 pm
@worried – hopefully you conferenced with those kids and parents at some point.
d
June 29th, 2011
1:31 pm
@gamom … I can’t say it is as high as 80% of students who don’t show up for Saturday school, but if you’re looking at incentives, what is the incentive for any student to show up at Saturday school? More often than not, the punishment for skipping Saturday school is out of school suspension, so students don’t have to come on the extra day and then receive extra time off (and for those who somewhat care about their academics, the ability to make up the work). Woohoo…. free holiday.
gamom
June 29th, 2011
1:40 pm
I’m still trying to find out if these students were conferenced with parents at some point before they did not show up.