Is it tougher to open a charter school in a high achieving district?
In a 4-3 vote Friday met with a standing ovation, the Cherokee school board rejected Cherokee Charter Academy, one of eight new charters statewide whose futures were thrown into limbo by the state Supreme Court decision on May 16.
Like most of the other charter schools scheduled to open and the eight already in operation, Cherokee Charter turned to its local school board for approval, which was the best lifeline since it assured the best funding. But many things were at work against the fledgling school, one being the short time frame for local approval due to the late ruling by the Supreme Court.
By issuing its decision in mid May after hearing the case in October, the high court left a window of only a few weeks for schools approved by the now illegal state commission to find legitimacy through local boards of education. I think that the schools already in operation had a slight edge over schools like Cherokee Academy, which had not yet opened and had no record on which to stand.
What is interesting to note in both Cherokee and Coweta — which also rejected one of the 16 commission charters Friday and one that is actually in operation -- is that these are communities with high achieving schools, creating tensions between the charter parents who want a different setting for their kids and the parents who are satisfied with their existing public school choices and see the charter schools as a financial drain on already strained resources.
In Cherokee, each group of parents showed up in their colors — red for charter school supports and black for opponents.
Most of the charter school students stranded by the Supreme Court decision — two-thirds of them — would have attended virtual charter schools, which are among the fastest-growing in the nation. Down the line, I have to spend time looking at the research on the efficacy of virtual education. From what I have seen so far, the efficacy falls into that standard big pot in education called “mixed results.” But online charter schools are growing everywhere, and it will be interesting to see how well they fare.)
The idea of a charter school in Cherokee County was met with over 2,600 applications and a groundswell of support from parents concerned about slipping test scores at their neighborhood schools. The overwhelming interest grew the charter school’s rosters from over 700 students to 995. The school, which was set to open in August, could never win board approval, however. It was rejected in 2009 and 2010 because of concerns about its finances, governance and budget.
Parents were disappointed by the third rejection, but refuse to give up. “We will continue to fight,” said Ted Handey, who has a fifth grader accepted at Cherokee Charter Academy. Organizers say they will appeal to the state Board of Education for approval as a state special charter school. That vote will be held Tuesday.
School board members said the charter school wasn’t right for the district and the price was too high with 995 students. To raise $3.4 million for a school of 500 — the board’s counter proposal — Cherokee school superintendent Frank Petruzielo said the board would have to consider either laying off 55 teachers, increasing furlough days, eliminating step raises, hiking taxes or siphoning reserves. If the charter was allowed to continue with 995 students, it would be a $6.8 million impact; or $40 million over five years.
“We are not talking about small change,” Petruzielo said.
Board members Mike Chapman, Janet Read, Robert Wofford and Rick Steiner voted against the charter petition. Board members Michael Geist, Kim Cochran and Rob Usher voted in favor.
“What I hate the most about this situation is that we should not be pitting one against the other,” said school board member Chapman before the vote. He also told those who wanted more choices to consider relocating. “If you feel like the Cherokee County school system isn’t meeting your needs you have the option to move.”
School officials also said the charter school’s application had continued deficiencies and question whether the charter school was giving too much control to its partner, Charter Schools USA, a for-profit education management firm. Some also wondered whether enough students had the opportunity to apply.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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72 comments Add your comment
Kah
June 27th, 2011
6:24 am
It has more to do with who is in control of the funds than whether the district is high performing or not. Parents want and need choice in their child’s education. The movie “Waiting for Superman” has opened some parents eyes to seeking other options for their children. I truly believe the of rejections of charter applications are going to cause these parents to seek other options such as homeschooling, private school and or the online education. It appears to be a movement for “change” in the education system and some folks resist change.
Dunwoody Mom
June 27th, 2011
6:32 am
It has more to do with who is in control of the funds than whether the district is high performing or not
You are okay with “for-profit” companies in charge of education?
Lee
June 27th, 2011
6:40 am
Honey, I know we can barely afford to put food on the table and pay the power bill, but I want a new Lexus.
Sorry. Not going to happen.
And that is the reality. Charter schools are viewed as a luxury that most school districts cannot afford in the current state of the economy.
Logic
June 27th, 2011
6:48 am
Competition is the only hope for saving public education.
Ben
June 27th, 2011
7:02 am
I doubt many of these applications will be approved as a lot of the local boards have just finished closing schools within their respective districts because of budget concerns. What reason would they have to continue funding what they consider “rogue” schools outside of their authority?
If these parents are serious they need to homeschool or send their child to a private school because these local boards aren’t going to tolerate them(charter schools) anymore. They can rally all they want down at the capital but the politicians are going to defer to the local boards and the teachers union since the legal avenues have been slammed close.
Write Your Board Members
June 27th, 2011
7:25 am
Ben
I think you are wrong. I believe that many of our politicians will be pushing for a legal solution that allows the state to bypass local systems. I am not saying it can be done, just saying they haven’t given up yet.
Early in the charter movement, a group of parents wanted to open a charter school in Princeton NJ which was a high performing school district. They suceeded but it was very divisive. Many years ago, a group of parents from the Lakeside High School are in DeKalb wanted to open a middle school. The public school supporting parents in that community weren’t to receptive. The idea never got very far.
http://www.princetoncharter.org/
Joe Frank
June 27th, 2011
7:25 am
The media seems ti ignore the fact all systems must choose between becoming a charter system itself, an IE2 system, or maintain the staus quo. MANY systems are choosing the charter route giving them more autonomy and local control. The system will work if given a chance. No way tax dollars should be used to fund ANY private business.
Real Athens
June 27th, 2011
7:29 am
One of the biggest lies perpetrated by Conservatives in this State (thanks Neil Boortz) is that their is a “teacher’s union. “… A labor union is an organization of workers that have banded together to achieve common goals such as better working conditions. The trade union, through its leadership, bargains with the employer on behalf of union members and negotiates labor contracts (collective bargaining) with employers. This may include the negotiation of wages, work rules, complaint procedures, rules governing hiring, firing and promotion of workers, benefits, workplace safety and policies. The agreements negotiated by the union leaders are binding on the rank and file members and the employer and in some cases on other non-member workers.”
In Georgia teachers have no collective bargaining agreement — the absolute mantel piece of organized labor — hence, no union. Teachers are no different than churches or any other group who forms a “voting bloc”.
BillM
June 27th, 2011
7:29 am
Charters only need to exist where public schools fail. Who would sign up for the hassle and the risk if the public school were working?
Charters are not the reason for the problems of the public schools; they are the result.
Obozonomics
June 27th, 2011
7:43 am
It is a shame all the hypocrisy our loser government preaches, if a bank has more than 38% of the business in a state it has to divest its assents to fewer than 38%, or face going to jail. But if our government school, which is virtually 100% monopoly, has any competition they use the power of the federal government to shut it down. Competition is mandated by law except if you are a government entity.
www.honeyfern.org
June 27th, 2011
7:47 am
I really don’t understand the issue with charter schools. I have been trying to figure out why they are such a burr for some people. If (and I realize this is a big “if”) they do what they say they are going to do, why are people so against them? I am honestly curious.
CherokeeStudent
June 27th, 2011
7:49 am
This is in response to the question if you are OK with “for-profit” companies in charge of education. Who cares who is in charge when the choice is yours to stop going and return to the public schools. The “for-profit” companies will have to uphold integrity and honesty to keep the registration up.
CherokeeStudent
June 27th, 2011
7:52 am
And in response to Charter Schools being a luxury, we’re talking about the future of America, the next generation, our children, education…not a car! I think it’s worth it to put our dollars towards this luxury, don’t you?
Real Athens
June 27th, 2011
7:53 am
Sorry for the typos. It was early.
Bozo: Read the article, the Feds did not shut down the Charter School — THAT WAS THE LOCAL SCHOOL BOARD; IN A VOTE BY REPRESENTATIVES ELECTED TO OFFICE TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS.
And their reason stated as “School officials also said the charter school’s application had continued deficiencies and question whether the charter school was giving too much control to its partner, Charter Schools USA, a for-profit education management firm. Some also wondered whether enough students had the opportunity to apply.”
Karl Marx
June 27th, 2011
7:59 am
School board member Mike Chapman said “If you feel like the Cherokee County school system isn’t meeting your needs you have the option to move.” Hey Bozo why don’t YOU move. After the next election you will not have a job anyway. You and about 3 others.
CherokeeStudent
June 27th, 2011
8:02 am
Last comment…Ben, maybe there are some districts closing schools but in this district we are opening schools!!! So why not open a school like a charter? You are punishing parents who in other circumstances would send their kids to private or homeschool if they could; so in other words, a charter is another option to a private school or homeschool but funded by the state for a limited enrollment and it won’t be “tolerated”? I haven’t heard a good reason why as of yet.
Jennifer
June 27th, 2011
8:11 am
Let’s just keep in mind that GCPS had denied Ivy Prep 2 -3X, and was prepared to deny 2 more petitions this past month. Not one GCPS board member has ever even visited the school that sits in their backyard, and I would attest that many board members have never even read the petition.
Had the nation not been watching – there never, ever would have been an approval of a petition with the current charter. This is a high performing single gender charter school with close to 600 girls, 90% + students of color, and over 50% poverty. One would think the district would be honored be able to offer such a high performing and innovative school to parents.
Charter evaluations need to be focused on innovation, community commitment, financial sustainability, and work that will “add” to the district, not subtract from it. The district should be looking for ways to leverage resources and provide some economies of scale that make sense and can support the path for a fledgling spark.
The problem with all of this is – most districts bloated with egos agree that there are many ways to the same path – as long as it is their way and you stay within your immediate zip code. And that my friend is called – social control. Nothing more, nothing less.
Teaching is worse in FL
June 27th, 2011
8:16 am
Divide and conquer…..it’s working. It’ll be easier to dismantle public education if we are at each other’s throats. Just demonstrate the extreme sides, and things will fall apart.
Charter schools go against the idea of FAPE (free and appropriate public education) if they try to exist in a high performing district. The burden of proof is on the charter school that is trying to open. Unless there is a definite, proven, demonstrated NEED, it is just what LEE (6:40) said-a luxury.
Notre Dame Grad
June 27th, 2011
8:25 am
While there are those who want to claim the online charters as a “mixed bag of results” I go with the results of my kids who are in the Georgia Cyber Academy. My kids found a much more challenging and encouraging learning environment for the last 3 years. Their grasp of advanced subjects is far beyond what it ever was in DeKalb county schools (mainly because they are actually taught subjects that are at and above their grade levels) not to mention that their CRCT scores well exceed the average scores of public school children. Their reading, math, science and social studies levels are so much above public schools it’s flabbergasting that we ever considered putting them back in public schools (my 4th grader understands Shakespeare, good luck on that in a 4th grade class in public school).
The fight against charters is a losing one. There may be some local victories for now, but in the end, Charters will be here to stay. My wife and I have had the public school experience of the 21st century and have come to the conclusion that this does not prepare our children for the competitive nature of a global economy. We are quite fortunate that we have a choice to do what is best for them. Taking that choice away will not solve the problem local school districts are trying to solve. If the schools were better, and you only need to compare the GA schools to the national average (where they rank near the bottom of almost every survey) you wouldn’t need a charter solution. Unfortunately, it is what it is and in today’s environment, you can’t wait for local school boards to do the right thing at the expense of your child’s future.
CherokeeStudent
June 27th, 2011
8:25 am
But how does that “high performing district” add up against other nation’s? AND other states in the US? Why punish those who want better for their kids? You’re talking about a state (GA) who is already tailing behind other US states who in turn is tailing behind other nations. The NEED exists in every school district in the United States!
Dr NO
June 27th, 2011
8:29 am
BillM
June 27th, 2011
7:29 am
Well stated!
Jennifer
June 27th, 2011
8:35 am
It is said that the true vision of a champion is what happens when no one is looking.
While legislators squabble over a constitutional amendment and the press is covering it, what will the districts that approved one year petitions be doing ? …..Taking a year to do what…build a case of charter school deficiencies, or in good faith support and enhance and learn from their work ?
Don’t anyone take your eye off the ball for the two-three locally approved charters that occurred because of the results of the Georgia Supreme Court. The proof of district stewardship, for these already high performing public schools will be visible in June 2012.
Karl Marx
June 27th, 2011
9:01 am
What is this “high achieving district” BS? I have to laugh when someone in this state brags about high achievement schools in a state that is consistently ranked last in the nation. So, what is this, the best of the worst? Give me a break.
Educated
June 27th, 2011
9:06 am
@DunwoodyMom…just because government schools have no stated objective of gaining a profit does not mean they are not up to no good. Thats just the problem. I hope you have lived long enough to realize you get what you pay for. Just as you probably purchased property in the Dunwoody area to be around a homogenous group and take advantage of the schools. If you rent…that will take on another post related to differences in who fits the bill.
I made a choice to pay 13k per year for my 5yr old… and Gwinnett Co. still takes 3k in property taxes. I chose to get more for my investment. The government school wants you child to have to same knowledge base as your neighbor and every other child in the school. That is why they test standards. Its a good thing you reinforce learning at home and provide outside of school cultural and learning activities for your child.
Educated
June 27th, 2011
9:08 am
@Dunwoody Mom…if I am unpleased with the services for my money…I will take my investment else. Government schools do not provide that choice, you will have to likely move. Might be best we purchase those homes on wheels they used to make called Mobile Homes. HA!!!!
Teacher Reader
June 27th, 2011
9:29 am
@ Notre Dame Grad I agree. The GA Cyber Academy is way above anything DeKalb offers. The students in GCA receive the top notch education that every child in GA deserves.
Not sure why so many are opposed to for-profits running charter schools. Every book company, program that is purchased for education, computers, etc, the food service, are all earning profits. As a former teacher and parent of a toddler, politics is what is wrong with our education system. Those running many of our public schools have little teaching experience. Many running our public schools see our public schools as a job program and then think about educating our children. What do members of school boards really know about educating our children? Time and time again, in DCSS things boil down to race. What is sad is that the blacks running the system are giving the shaft to the the blacks, Latinos, and whites in our poorest performing schools. Those in charge, including school board members are quick to cry racism, but fail to look at themselves as the biggest problem hurting children.
Schools don’t want to give up the money to charter schools. They are afraid of competition. Competition might mean that another school with similar demographics could out perform their schools and make them look bad. Having worked in and with Charter schools across the country. Yes there are some that are not out performing public schools, but many of them are and our children deserve to get out of systems that are not focused on learning and/or are not meeting their their needs.
atlmom
June 27th, 2011
9:42 am
wow – if you don’t like it move? WOW. That’s like: let them eat cake.
Not everyone can move bozo.
I just don’t get it. The public schools teach one way. If parents would like a different kind of school – then they MUST send their kids to private school? How about having different kinds of schools like there are different kinds of kids? How about teaching to the child rather than a take it or leave it attitude? These school boards are ONLY looking at the money that they get to control, and nothing else.
@Dunwoody mom: um, – how is that ‘public school that is supposedly not operating for profit’ working for you? for society?
Jerry Eads
June 27th, 2011
10:25 am
Remember Janis’ old song “Oh Lord, won’t you give me a Mairsaydees Benz” – - -
By the way, “Waiting for Superman” was just like the reports from so called “think tanks” – as Jerry Bracey once wrote, “Today, alas, there are many ’studies’ out there that qualify only as pseudoresearch, articles” [and in this case a film] “designed to provide something of a scholarly facade for an ideological message.” “Superman” has been quite thoroughly documented to be, quite simply, an abject lie, misquoting and taking out of context the statements of most of those in the film. Because it fed the false beliefs of the naive and gullible, it further conned a rather large number of people.
Maureen, you ask a scholarly question that might deserve a scholarly answer, but I’m not aware of any research addressing whether there’s a relationship between the socio-economic makeup of a district and its board’s propensity to approve charter schools. Likely it’s FAR more complicated than that, having to do with the competence of the board and its confidence in the schools. It likely has even more to do, as pointed out above, with the very, very limited resources available these days. If I were trying to maintain the quality usually associated with schools benefiting from a relatively strong tax base, the last thing I’d be interested in would be taking money away from my already good schools for somebody’s private enterprise.
The way the system works: If you don’t like the way your public schools are working, work to change them. Join the PTA. Run for the board. Vote for someone else to be on the board. YOU elect the board. If you don’t like it, get in there and help change the board. If you want something else, precisely correct, @atlmom: enroll your children in a private school. You are more than welcome to try to do what you can with YOUR tax money. NOT mine.
really?
June 27th, 2011
10:48 am
@Jerry Eads – We also elect the legislators who right the charter laws. Why is there only one way to change the public schools?
Teacher Reader
June 27th, 2011
10:50 am
@ Jerry Eads
The system isn’t working. The PTA has nothing to do with the way that schools are run, the low expectations for students, the administrators with bought degrees and little teaching experience, and the school boards who are more concerned about saving the highly paid jobs of friends and family members over educating the children in the county.
What I have seen from Charter Schools the likes of KIPP (in several cities), Amistad Academy (run by Achievement First in CT), Propel (in and around Pittsburgh, PA), and a few in New Orleans (as all schools in the city are charters since Katrina) is that what goes on in the walls of those schools are truly in the best interest of the children. These schools focus on meeting student needs and work to get them back to grade level and take them even further. Those that are able to attend these schools are so much better off than those attending the public schools in these areas. These charter schools demand more from the students and families and deliver on providing their children a quality education.
The Georgia Virtual Academy run by K-12 is another example of a charter school that offers top notch curriculum, high expectations, and focuses on the student. The curriculum that I have seen in GVA is hands and toes above that offered in DCSS and most public schools that I have worked in.
As a tax payer, I choose not to send my child to a public school, because I realize that they do not want to change. As a teacher, I spoke up when expectations were lowered for children and was labeled a trouble maker.
Until the public realizes that our public schools are the public schools that you and I went to, they have become employment agencies first and foremost with little to no focus on educating our children. Look at the scandals in Atlanta with Dr. Hall and the CRCT scores. Look at the dysfunctional school board in DCSS. Look at the questionable land deals in Gwinnett. There are problems in most public schools.
It bothers me more that I am paying federal and local taxes for school systems that are failing our children and that I can’t send my child to a public school because of the poor quality. I am tired of paying high taxes for a product that I wouldn’t buy on my own and can’t use.
The future of America lies with educating our children. Our children are not being educated and therefore lack the knowledge and ability to think for themselves. Look at the drop out rates. Many of these kids can’t read. It’s cheaper to educate our children properly now, than to pay for incarceration, welfare, and other entitlements later on.
I suggest that you and others who are not for charters, go and visit a few. I believe that you will be surprised.
Real Athens
June 27th, 2011
10:51 am
School boards are elected. If you don’t like the board, or its members, you have a built in “revolution” every few years.
I love the reference to “government schools”: a dead giveaway to where your information is derived. shameful that the source is nearly always, incomplete, biased and profit motivated — as opposed to factual.
Teacher Reader: Thanks for addressing the 800 lbs. gorilla in the room. However, your lack of self-awareness does little to beguile the real foundations of your opinion.
“Time and time again, in DCSS things boil down to race. What is sad is that the blacks running the system are giving the shaft to the the blacks, Latinos, and whites in our poorest performing schools. … Those in charge, including school board members are quick to cry racism.”
Be like Jerry. You don’t like your public schools — change them with involvement. Empower yourself. That’s the American way.
JAT
June 27th, 2011
11:08 am
The original intent for Charter schools was to provide an alternative school for students in high poverty urban districts where the public schools were failing.
Cherokee County has one of the highest ratings (well above the National avererage) in the state. It is not necessary to have a Charter school that will not provide anything different/more (actually less-according to the final staff analysis report) than the already exsisting public schools.
I think some parents saw the “Waiting for Superman” movie and jumped on a band wagon.
Some of the parents that were at (and spoke) at the Board meeting are parents who don’t like to follow rules and are upset with having to adhere to them. Can’t Charter schools “kick you out” for any reason? These parents (and their children) probably wouldn’t have lasted long at a Charter school anyway.
InEd
June 27th, 2011
11:24 am
@Teacher Reader
10:50 a.m.
Spot On!!
justbrowsing
June 27th, 2011
11:44 am
@JAT- the only problem about charter schools is that schools will be forced to bend rules, and lower current standards to maintain an enrollement figure that generates a profit. If there are many charters competing for students, and some with a waiting list, how will the state deal with situations like that? These schools will close and the students will be back in their originally zoned schools, or, taken across town to another charter school. I have heard terrible things about some of these charter schools which seek to pacify parents and placate children for the sake of enrollment numbers and at the expense of ANY educational standard.
Chris
June 27th, 2011
11:46 am
Despite individual success stories, the overall test results from charter schools are no better than traditional public schools’ averages. This is the strongest argument against charter schools. Although they do provide a choice for parents, that choice is not statistically better than the ones they already have, when measured with the traditional yardstick of educational success. The argument needs to shift to the other benefits that charters can provide.
Opening another building, especially in districts which are facing budget shortfalls in excess of $10million annually, is not responsible. The overhead needed to operate existing facilities does not decrease in proportion to the percent of students who would leave, and take their FTE money with them, when a charter is opened. I work at one of the largest public charter schools in the state. In the five years it has been open, it has been the single most expensive building in the district in terms of operating expense. The truth is, they are expensive. Skeptics are justified in asking for evidence that these expenditures are worthwhile.
Look at the graduation rates of traditionally under-served students from existing charters. Look at dropout rates. Look at incidents of discipline. These are all areas where the school where I work excels.
Really amazed
June 27th, 2011
11:50 am
I was for the Charter School. Not for my children to attend, they attend private already. I felt that every parent deserved a choice for their child. I have been tracking this for over 3 year now. I didn’t fell that the Cherokee Charter Academy would have provided anything different than local public other than Spanish and uniforms. They still had to use GA curr. and adhere to the basic CRCT. This is why I decided to keep my children in private. My children will not be taught to such a low standard. I did however feel that if parents felt this would be a better choice, then so be it. Let there be choice. I wished too that the Charter would have been able to prove and show a different way of teaching. This is the problem with having to utilized public funds. I personally think they should open up as a private school and charge the amount of funds they would have received via district. I believe this was going to be around $6,000 this would still be a bargain for a private school. They would be able to run it the way they wanted without ga doe, basic ga curr and not having to teach to a crct. I am sure the numbers would drop however it would still provide some choice. The cyber academy is another option. Bottom line is that the county is very affraid of this Charter School succeeding. If it does, they will have many more children going and not attending public traditional school. I do believe that by 2020 students will be educated a totally different way. No one will be walking through a brick and mortar building anymore. Just watch and see.
CherokeeStudent
June 27th, 2011
11:52 am
@JerryEad and @Real Athens…I can understand your concern for where your tax dollars are being spent. However, you have to admit that we as a society need to introduce/suggest/change the way our public school system is today. We are way behind the rest of the world in education. PTA, school boards, etc has been the culture for decades and has gotten us no where. So where then do you suggest we make the change? Why not listen to the people who have children in the public school system and care about the future of their children? I’m not sure if you have children in the system, but I’m guessing you pay for your children to go to private school if you have children at all…some of us cannot afford that especially in Atlanta where tuition far exceeds the budget of middle class society in an economy where gas prices went from the lowest to now the highest, prices for groceries increased, unemployment is among the highest, hiring freezes put in place, foreclosures amongst the highest in the country and raises not be given. These are your neighbors and the society your children are going to be part of when they graduate from the private school you were able to pay for. Taxes are in place to better the world around us, and that includes the children next door whether they be black, white, hispanic, latino, rich, poor, etc. This should be a team effort (Team USA Education)…what’s been in place for decades now is not executing in the world today. Graduates from private schools in USA are not, at least from what I have seen, leading this nation in innovation. Competition in this nation to push those children around us to be the best they can be and exercise their brainpower for the good of this country sounds like a great idea to me. And what better way to do it than to introduce other means of education systems since the traditional one is not performing to the best of our ability.
Teacher Reader
June 27th, 2011
11:56 am
@ Real Athens Unless you have worked in DCSS you will not understand the politics. As a white teacher in the county for three years, I fought for the black children that I taught to have the quality of education that I would want for my own children. The black leaders (the majority of those in administration are black) have lowered the standards so much. These leaders also have little time in the classroom and care more about making jobs for adults than educating the children.
This is an email from a black board member:
Mr. African-American Voter ~
Shame on you for declaring “we’ve lost another great candidate because none of you want to clean house”. How dare you to describe a candidate for Superintendent great whose record show the accrediting agency graded his last 3 years as academically unacceptable. In addition, he received a no confidence vote by his Board, and they refused to change it. I hasten to tell you that we don’t need to clean house because our System is not toxic. Clearly, your understanding and expectation of excellence, success and high accomplishment are vastly different from mine. In fact, you sound like the Negro of old who did not earn respect for being independent thinking, manly, courageous or assertive, but rather for being accommodating – for fulfilling the stereotype of what was expected of him.
I definitely cannot tell you how to vote, but it saddens me that you do not share my sense of a pursuit of excellence and high accomplishment
rather than, mediocrity as the standard in this selection process.
Gene Walker
The emails that I received from our black administrators were poorly written and often did not use correct grammar.
Changing our public school system is easier said than done. Until our public schools have real competition, they have little reason to change. It’s become extremely difficult to get a child the support that they need. It’s easier to push a child along.
Ed Advocate
June 27th, 2011
11:56 am
Remember, the goal is not charters schools, but GOOD charter schools. If you truly support the charter school movement, then you should have serious concerns about this charter school.
The proposed school’s management company, Charter Schools USA, has a mixed record at best, particularly with low-income students. Its first effort in Georgia, Coweta Academy, attracted substantially fewer low-income students (10%) than the district at large (40%) yet its results in Year 1 were were worse than the district as a whole. Why should the district hand over authority to a group with such a questionable record ? Give the group a few years to prove itself in Coweta and then it can reapply to Cherokee. Or, perhaps another group with a more convincing record will apply.
The enthusiasm for a charter school in Cherokee is fantastic. And competition is important. But the District has an obligation to approve schools that are likely to succeed. This candidate has not yet established this likelihood, and Cherokee should hold out for a better competitor.
Is it tougher to open a charter school in a high achieving district? – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | All Political
June 27th, 2011
11:59 am
[...] Is it tougher to open a charter school in a high achieving district?Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)In a 4-3 vote Friday met with a standing ovation, the Cherokee school board rejected Cherokee Charter Academy, one of eight new charters statewide whose futures were thrown into limbo by the state Supreme Court decision on May 16. …Coweta BoE denies Senoia charter school applicationThe Citizen.comNew legislation to affect charter schoolsMount Airy NewsGa. board committee approves applications of charter schools affected by court …The RepublicMyFox Atlantaall 29 news articles » [...]
JM
June 27th, 2011
12:05 pm
2600 applications is a huge threat to the establishment.
gern
June 27th, 2011
12:34 pm
As a parent of two (soon to be three) school-age children in Cherokee County, I would challenge your assessment of the district as being high achieving. I see a district where “it’s good enough”, “money” issues, and hurt feelings are holding back the best and the brightest students to achieve their true potential. Review the portfolio for where most of these kids are applying for college, the portfolio for where they are accepted, and where they are matriculating and then decide if it is “high-achieving.”
What's best for kids?
June 27th, 2011
12:54 pm
Here’s the question, though:
Have schools gone down since “A Nation at Risk”, or are we just more cognizant of the situation? We have been at a 50-60% dropout since compulsory schooling began.
What we have done is changed the teaching methods, dummied down the curriculum, and made excuses as to why kids can’t learn (white man’s guilt) and failed the children who want to be there and who want to learn.
As to whit man’s guilt, I am so tired of administrators saying that we have to change the expectations for minority and low SES students. That, gentle readers, IS racist. The administrators and the other people in the public school setting are saying that we teachers must adjust the curriculum so that our lower SES can move on. I have a hard time with that. All students can learn; now, are we going to ensure that they do by expecting them to behave and exhibit self-discipline? That would go a long way in ensuring quality education.
CherokeeStudent
June 27th, 2011
1:07 pm
@What’s best for kids? I totally agree, why focus on those things? Focus on innovation and think outside the box to bring the percentage up. It’s like girls going through puberty earlier and earlier, is that really the case or are we just more cognizant of the situation? Because everyone I speak to that are much older went through puberty between 9-12 as well. I think that is probably the case with almost everything you can analyze. A better approach would be to think outside the box and be creative.
Paulo977
June 27th, 2011
1:25 pm
Dunwoody
Mom
“You are okay with “for-profit” companies in charge of education?”
The tone would imply that the poster IS
Education in the real sense of the word has nothing to do with it!!!!
Paulo977
June 27th, 2011
1:31 pm
Teacher
Reader
“have lowered the standards so much.”
Please elaborate ….do give an example
Get a grip
June 27th, 2011
2:13 pm
I have 3 children and they all attend public school. I too, listen to Neal Boortz but he explains his own show as entertainment and I digest the information as such.
However, I realize children must make their own decisions. They must make a decision about the direction of their own lives no matter how much “we’ve” (the parents) paid for their education. I don’t mean let them do what they want but hey, are parents going to live forever…start there.
My kids are “persuaded” into having a working plan. They are responsible for what they get out of their schooling. I let them know that I do not feed adults. My obligation ends at 18 and anything after that is a gift.
For a lot of you, 18 is coming sooner than you realize. Start teaching your children that no matter where they are that they must rise above adversity. Now, that is harsh but guess what…all job situations are not ideal (even if you own the company). They must learn to survive among the wolves and if any of you live in the real world, you have met some wolves.
In addition, don’t forget to read to your kids (even if they are teenagers), sit down to watch some documentaries with them, laugh with them, watch the news with them, and go on day trips with them. Nothing can replace your input as an active and involved parent.
Finally, I think private schools where created for the very reason of providing a choice where parents have more of a say and now citizens want another choice. O-K…
Really Amazed
June 27th, 2011
2:58 pm
I too think it is funny how Cherokee County considers it self as high achieving!!!!!!!!!! It is amazing what people think of as high achieving. When you are receiving 10 extra pts for showing up for exams and you are given 2,3,4 times again/over to re-take test and crct cuts scores are lowered year after year to meet AYP. WOW!!!! Yes, truly high achieving. Keep drinking the kool-aid!!!!! I do have to agree with @gern!
CharterStarter
June 27th, 2011
3:10 pm
McDonalds should not be allowed to decide whether or not Burger King will operate. We need a separate authorizer. Boards of Ed have too much power (which is our own fault). The state constitution and charter school law both need to be amended.
Really Amazed
June 27th, 2011
3:11 pm
As long as little Susie/Johnny is making all A’s and meeting or exceeding crct. They must be high achievers. SURE!!! The question is in what???? Basic standards, very low basic standards at that! How many times did Susie/Johnny get to re-take test? How many times did mommy and daddy complain if they weren’t making the A’s? Teachers and admin are given in more and more to grade inflation than ever! It’s not about what grade your child is making, it’s what they LEARNED. Too many parents are more concerned about the grade than what their child is learning nowadays. I blame that on the lovely HOPE scholarship. This has become the main problem in this state. The child in GA public schools aren’t being taught how to learn. They are being taught how to pass a crct test. No true critical thinking skills. Wait until college! If your child has been taught how to take good note and think for themselves forget it! You can’t go backwards.
Real Athens
June 27th, 2011
3:18 pm
Teacher Reader:
Relax, Francis. My mother and sister are educators … spare me. Again I reference your lack of self-awareness. I watched Gwinnett County Schools compromised by the iron fisted, idiotic reign of Louise Radloff. Her authority was granted to her solely because of her politics. Idiotic school boards and administrators come in all shapes, sizes and colors and have for all time. You get the school boards you deserve (just like any of our any elected offices). They are elected officials, up for review every few years.
I’ll tell you what. Let’s send girls to girls’ schools, boys to boys’ schools. Then we’ll separate them by ethnicity, (OK, wait that’s illegal) how about, socio-economic background, that seems popular these days. What do you think we’ll have in 30 years? We’ll be marching backwards to the good old days — the Dark Ages.
What public schools need is a greater infusion of personal responsibility, attention and volunteerism from parents, taxpayers and the public at large. Build a better mousetrap.
Dr. Seuss touches on the idea of charter schools and this line of thinking in the children’s story “The Sneetches Go to the Beaches”. It should be required reading every 10 years for all humans.
Publicola
June 27th, 2011
3:47 pm
It’s all relative. We’re talking about so-called high achieving districts in a State at the bottom of the heap nationally, in a nation falling behind the rest of the developed world.
Why are we defending the status quo?
Ga Teacher 10
June 27th, 2011
4:01 pm
As a teacher in Clayton County, I absolutely understand the need to change and improve schools. It is more apparent in one the most poorly run districts in the state. I absolutely understand that when there is a need and the powers that be refuse to address the issues, than charters schools certainly have a place. With some of the incompetent leadership (and to be fair, some teachers) I absolutely understand why parents would want to get their child out to a better situation. Even though my school had a vast majority of excellent teachers who care deeply about their students and worked their tails off, the leadership was so awful that I could understand parents wanting better. That being said, though, it is incomprehensible for me to see the “outrage” in well-run districts such as Cherokee, Cobb, and Gwinnett. Before I get grenades thrown my way, I know that every district has its issues, but when you work in such a terribly run county as mine, these places seem like heaven.
Charter Schools…..
1) Represent the tried and true-to-fail “market model” economics full of “competition” including massive deregulation and changing the rules to make success easier.
2) Screen applicants through a lottery system vs. having to teach every child regardless of restrictions, race, special needs, poverty level, discipline problems, etc.
3) Most charters mandate a certain level of parent involvement or child is “counseled” out of that school
4) Enforce strict discipline rules and regulations that would likely incur lawsuits in regular schools. At any time the student can be “counseled out” (ie….kicked back to their public school).
5) I can give you all the reasons in the world why Charters are a bunch of BS, but the biggest and most important one simply is that they’re just not as good. They absolutely do not outperform their public school counterparts…..
And yet, this study [from CREDO] reveals in unmistakable terms that, in the aggregate, charter students are not faring as well as their TPS [traditional public school] counterparts.”
http://credo.stanford.edu/
Known as the CREDO study, it evaluated student progress on math tests in half the nation’s five thousand charter schools and concluded that 17 percent were superior to a matched traditional public school; 37 percent were worse than the public school; and the remaining 46 percent had academic gains no different from that of a similar public school.
For all of you complaining about not having a choice and your kids not getting the best they possibly can be, you’re forgetting the most influential education of all: YOU. Stop whining and get to work helping your kids in their education.
Parents wanting charter schools in good districts = wanting a private school education for FREE.
Ga Teacher 10
June 27th, 2011
4:10 pm
Nation falling behind the rest of the world…………..
It bears mentioning that nations with high-performing school systems—whether Korea, Singapore, Finland, or Japan—have succeeded not by privatizing their schools or closing those with low scores, but by strengthening the education profession. They also have less poverty than we do. Fewer than 5 percent of children in Finland live in poverty, as compared to 20 percent in the United States. Those who insist that poverty doesn’t matter, that only teachers matter, prefer to ignore such contrasts.
I can give you all the reasons in the world why most (not all, obviously some work well, KIPP, Aspire, etc) charter schools are a bunch of crap (screening, kicking kids out with ease, changing the rules, extreme discipline, an intrinsically high motivated group, mandated parental involvement, less qualified teachers, etc), but the bottom line charters as a whole simply just AREN’T AS GOOD!………
Known as the CREDO study, it evaluated student progress on math tests in half the nation’s five thousand charter schools and concluded that 17 percent were superior to a matched traditional public school; 37 percent were worse than the public school; and the remaining 46 percent had academic gains no different from that of a similar public school.
http://credo.stanford.edu/ – Credo Reports Section
As a teacher in one of the worst run districts in the nation (ClayCo), I absolutely agree that there should be reform in public schools, mainly at leadership levels, but saying that charter schools are the silver bullet is false, and frankly, insulting.
parents wanting charters in high performing districts = wanting a private school education for FREE
public_education
June 27th, 2011
4:58 pm
School district scores are not dropping, check the data. Cherokee is a high performing school district.
Jerry Eads
June 27th, 2011
5:11 pm
@ reader: the state legislature is not empowered by the constitution to make local decisions.
@Cherokee Student: great response. While I’ve not seen decent research on the subject, extensive anecdotal observation at one of the area’s top schools would suggest that the privates (in general – yes there are really good ones – $$$$) do a less than superb job of preparing students; they seem to be typically one or more years behind students who came up through the county schools. While there are NO data WHATSOEVER that suggest “competition” is the silver bullet to solve school problems, it is certainly testable as a research issue. If you are considering charters to be such competition, the research DOES very clearly show, once such things as “cherry-picking” and the propensity to expel unruly students is accounted for, that charters are no better than and frequently worse than their comparable ‘regular’ public schools. Public schools, by the way, are based on cooperation, not competition. While you indeed ‘compete’ for high grades, schools seem to work better when everyone is working together rather trying to beat one another.
@Teacher Reader: a superb response; one I take to heart. There ARE systems that are obviously virtually completely broken, and our local inner city district has certainly shown itself to be a superb example. I wish there were a silver bullet to fix schools generally. As for KIPP and Propel the data very starkly show that these private sector attempts do nothing more than avoid accountability and slip their trouble kids back to the public school or, worse, onto the street. I cannot favor such sleight of hand. In the case of New Orleans, if every school is a charter school, then there are no charter schools. If the purpose of the charter is to get rid of regulation (and, usually, accountability – the utility of which is a separate discussion), then indeed we could simply let each individual school be a “charter” and let the chips fall where they may. As Ravitch noted in Savannah, however, 90% of the country’s kids are in public schools. Charters may address 2-3% of them (I think those were the numbers). It is not reasonable to address the needs of 2-3% of the student body at the expense of the rest of them. We DO need to address some very serious issues, but running away from them is not the solution. Yes, having spent most of my career thinking about state and national policy, I do tend to think globally rather than individually, and there are benefits as well as shortcomings to that perspective. Look forward to arguing with you more!
Active in Cherokee
June 27th, 2011
5:33 pm
My biggest problem with Charter schools under the current method of approving them – we’re sinking national, state, and local tax money into a ‘for-profit’ organization that has very little regulations. Give ‘traditional’ public schools some of the same flexibility and they would succeed also.
In an answer to the question – one of the cases against this charter school in Cherokee was that the Cherokee County School System outperfomed every Charter Schools USA (the for-profit company) already has and can be compared by test scores. Why would CCSD spend so much money on a system they are better than by traditional methods of measurement?
Former GCA parent
June 27th, 2011
5:42 pm
Chiming in re: the Georgia Cyber Academy. It’s a JOKE. Not a high-level quality curriculum but a mindless, computer-based test prep program. And guess what else? They are lying about at least one of their CRCT scores. My student was told they got one score, but on the final grade report for GCA, all scores had been raised so it appeared he has exceeded the standard (instead of met, which was no big deal because we weren’t really teaching the curriculum – The Test – anyway, and his real performance on tasks was spot on). Multiple emails sent concerning this discrepancy have gone unanswered, and they are still in the office through June.
Don’t confuse a lot of work with good work. The amount of mindless busywork provided by GCA is mind-numbing and pointless. They read adaptations instead of real books. The online classes are slow and boring; if you have a gifted student RUN SCREAMING in the opposite direction. Just test prep – a public school online.
Former GCA parent
June 27th, 2011
5:44 pm
Really, public_education? Oh, that’s right, test scores aren’t dropping – the bar (in the form of cut scores) is, so it can appear to be a high-performing district. Low standards, low expectations.
If you believe public school and public school students are on track (or improving), you are living with your head in the sand.
Jerry Eads
June 27th, 2011
7:08 pm
THANK YOU, @GCA. But I have to stand up for the measurement-trained folk (by the way, few state testing folk are actually trained in the technology) at DOE . They aren’t fiddling with the cut scores over time – these people are HIGHLY ethical technical experts trapped inside the political bubble. They do absolutely the very best they know how to keep the difficulty level of the cut score at the same level every year. (Although much of the “bounce” of pass rates every year is simply a function of the error inherent in the year-to-year linking process. The technology is WAY short of the political demands upon it.)
The PROBLEM is that “mincomp” testing has just never done us much good in improving schools since we started this misguided effort in the late 1970’s to know how many kids passed a very low bar – usually on the order of the 5th to the 10th percentile, sometimes a tad more. We DID learn that state and national leaders are REALLY slow learners. Only very recently have people like John Barge gone on record saying he wished we’d get away from this kind of testing. He MOST certainly has my support.
It’s MUCH cheaper to produce minimum competency tests like this than develop full-range tests that might help us learn how EACH student is progressing, wherever on the distribution they are. We spend tens of millions of dollars on these questionable tests; we would spend huge amounts more to build useful ones. The research indicates that the problem you mention is actually CAUSED by the tests, not indicated by them: districts, schools, administrators and teachers are forced to focus only on the “bubble kids” whose performance is very close to the cut score, at the expense of both those who will fail even with enormous instructional effort as well as those who could already pass the tests.
CherokeeStudent
June 27th, 2011
7:44 pm
@Jerry Eads: I was talking about competition as a school system and not on a student level. Having other school options who demonstrate outperformance of the public schools will in time initiate change and hopefully influence those decision makers and authoritative figures to want to change the school system. You are obviously very knowledgeable and I am in no way educated enough about the statistics to debate such. Everyone has great points but what I conclude is that if there are that many accusations about the public school system, then I would prefer to try almost anything different.
Jerry Eads
June 27th, 2011
9:54 pm
@Cherokee: The competition issue spreads throughout everything, and as I understand the research (but I’m no expert in this particular area), the school culture is essentially cooperative. When a requirement for competition is introduced into the system at some level, it seems to damage the cooperative culture (I should be able to say that better but it’s late for an old man). One of the biggest reasons so (very) few policy changes implemented at local, state and federal levels ever result in positive outcomes is that the decisionmakers rarely study the possible negative consequences of their actions. Sometimes those negatives do far more harm than the intended changes do good. One of the other issues is that policymakers tend to make “one size fits all” decisions. What might be needed in a low-income inner city system might do enormous damage in an upper-income suburban system. Trying “anything different,” history shows pretty well, almost always causes far more harm than good. I would expect that eliminating some state regulations might help in many situations (the primary benefit seen for “charter” schools); but with the elimination of oversight comes responsibility, and apparently at least as often as not that responsibility has been either squandered or mishandled. If the constructs underlying “charters” were demonstrated to be largely positive (which they haven’t by any stretch of the imagination) then I would argue strongly for same.
Fled
June 28th, 2011
1:16 am
@really amazed: I often disagree with you, but this time I do believe that your points are valid. Teachers, at least the ones who could actually prepare kids for higher education, are not allowed to teach in Georgia. Almost every time I tried to teach honestly (and that means giving honest grades), the loudmouthed, lazy parents would start ringing the phone off the hook with complaints, and the spineless (bald) administrator would, yet again, come down on me. He even changed grades more than once. I always thought this was a shame because the parents who actually wanted their kids educated (which form the largest part of parents, including myself) are overruled by those who want rewards for education without the boring parts like reading books and doing research. So, yes, I agree that in Georgia there is need for massive overhaul of the education system. Look at the salaries of the central office staff and ask yourself what these people actually accomplish: precious little in my experience. I ain’t never coming back there.
This lesson hit home hard this year when I was finally able to get my children into a private school with an international reputation for excellence. In spite of TAG (a real joke in Georgia btw: how many of those teachers themselves were top students, do you think?) and going to primary and middle schools with all sorts of placards about how excellent they are and straight As, my kids simply did not know how to study and how to learn. It has been a hard year for them as time after time they have done what the public schools in Georgia taught them was excellent work only to learn over and over that it is not up to international standards. They were surprised right up until the final report card, which was honest. No, they did not get to redo every assignment over and over. I am ever grateful that we fled, as my children are finally being educated and are learning what it means to work hard for grades. The teachers here are real pros and are treated as professionals with much to offer: think that makes a difference in the job they do?
I do not think that corporate education is the answer for Georgia. Don’t be fooled: what these people want is to turn the big pile of money for education into profits for themselves. If you turn over the schools to these people, you will find yourself in even worse shape than now. The poor level of schools in Georgia will get even worse when classrooms become profit centers. You’ll still be in the bottom of the educational world, but at least investors will make money off your educational misery.
The sad truth is, there are no easy answers, no magic bullets, no approaches that will turn things around immediately. I often thought that the only answer was simply to begin insisting on excellence across the board and to stick with that; painful as it would be kids would eventually rise to the level of expectations. But that will never happen in Georgia.
Coweta Watcher
June 28th, 2011
7:31 am
High achieving? Really? We are ranked 44th in the state in Coweta County. How is that high achieving.
“You are okay with “for-profit” companies in charge of education?” – The public system has operated for-profit since the inception. Look at all of the administrators in all of the schools and in the main office. Too many chiefs running around.
Really amazed
June 28th, 2011
12:07 pm
@Fled, glad you realized this and that your children are finally being educated. Why is it that many parent in GA believe because of easy grades, redos and crct scores that their children are truly being educated??? Can’t parents see what their child is being taught?
DemocracyChamp
June 28th, 2011
6:07 pm
@ Bill M – Charters as they are perceived by many districts and citizens, like yourself is not how charters were intended originally. You mentioned that they don’t belong in districts that are high performing. I respectfully disagree for two reasons. First, because the original purpose of charters was to get the freedom to try new things and for those innovations to be scaled up and into traditional public schools, should they prove successful. No matter how well any school is doing, there are always ways to improve. Second, parents applied to the school in droves, implying the demand for choice which I believe is fundamental to a healthy democracy. Sure, Cherokee’s test scores are great, but students are still not doing as well in social studies, at least according to the stats, implying tunnel vision focus on math and language arts. And how about the art, drama, music and dance? Perhaps parents want schools that aren’t as obsessed with the test scores.
That being said, I honestly don’t know whether or not Cherokee Charter Academy (CCA) is planning to do anything different of innovative and even if they were, my first point about the original intent of charters would be useless if the relationship between the district and school wasn’t there to begin with. Hypothetically speaking, even if CCA did something awesome that really worked for students, I really doubt the district would pay any attention or care because of the bad blood between them that is inevitably going to worsen (but let’s hope not, for the sake of the community/students). Even with that caveat, I still think in general, that charters are good for democracy.
Really amazed
June 28th, 2011
8:31 pm
If you mean Cherokee Counties test scores are great…do you mean crct scores?? If so, this is what I mean about drinking the kool-aid. Crct scores are a joke of truly deciding if a student is or has learned how to learn. Please, please don’t be fooled into believing that just because crct scores are good means these students are truly learning. How were their itbs national scores. Funny how the state won’t release those anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Paddy O
July 1st, 2011
7:16 pm
obviously, the answer to this headline is yes. Why? exactly. why open a duplicative charter when the current schools are performing adequately. And most folks need to stop with the comparative studies on the US & other relatively small nations.
Paddy O
July 1st, 2011
7:17 pm
why would the state NOT release ITBS? With the improved curriculum (supposedly), those test scores should have increased.
Paddy O
July 1st, 2011
7:21 pm
fled demonstrates the underbelly of GA schools – is APS behavior actually far more spread out state wide? The state BOE should have a rule that prohibits administrators from changing any grade. It is there high paid butts job to listen to gripes from the parents, but sadly, many parents do a poor job today – the slippery slope has infected the entire nation.
Maureen Downey
July 1st, 2011
9:55 pm
@Paddy O, Because not every system gives ITBS since it is not required. Those systems that do administer it aren’t required to do so.
Maureen
Paddy O
July 3rd, 2011
2:16 am
maureen – don’t know if you will read this: Is ITBS expensive to administer? If no, why would you not give? It would seem to be a good benchmark on where your student is relative to other kids in teh country. Also, why not release the data on those schools that do give the test? Thank you!