CRCT scores are in: What do they tell us this time?

In other states, schools and systems are only compared to their socioeconomic peers. Comparing DCSS to Atlanta and Clayton is a good starting point.

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What do standardized test scores tell us in isolation rather than in a “big picture” mode? Not a darn thing.

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Teachers have been saying for DECADES that you need to compare apples with apples – but we were told that we’re just making excuses- and you know, we’ve entered a “all children can learn”, “everyone can go to college”, and this is a “no excuse zone”. Maureen, are you sure you want to get in the camp with teachers?

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It shouldnt matter if the children come to school in a Mercedes or a Yugo but leave it to the AJC to make it a class envy issue. Thats why they are continuously losing readership. If a teacher stinks then he\she should be fired! The unions and the outdated employment rules dont allow that so we are stuck with inferior teachers. Let the parents choose where their children go and you will see scores improve. The simple fact of the matter is competition works!

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@ AJC is biased—You are wrong on so many levels, I just don’t have energy to go through it all today. But let me say that when you allow students to go to whatever school they want, you won’t see all schools succeed, but the students that were struggling at their old school, will struggle at the new one. And all of a sudden, that successful school will now be labeled a failure. And you will also be upset that your precious school has been overrun by “undesirables” and will be looking again, at trying to change schools.

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“Clayton and Atlanta had some of the lowest scores.”

Of course they did. And they’d still have the lowest scores even if, every day, you flew over those areas in an airplane while scattering a million dollars in the breeze. They’d have nicer cars, but their test scores would still be low.

“The longer I report on education, the less comfortable I am with test score results, which often speak more to the affluence of the families in a district than the proficiency of either the schools or the teachers.”

Wrong. What you are noticing is a racial gap in academic performance, which has a biological cause. Your insistence that the cause of the gaps is economic has, itself, a political cause. You leftist, you.

Expecting social interventions to remedy problems caused by innate racial differences is like expecting to douse fires by throwing gasoline on them, or expecting brick walls to puff into vapor for your convenience. Wise up. You’re wrong.

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We need a union, badly. Our rights, our voices, in Georgia need to be respected and heard today.

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David Sims

June 22nd, 2011
11:33 am

You said it brother!!! The liberals refuse to accept what is fact.

Affluence is gained, more often than not, via personal responsiblity. Here again is the “haves” vs the “will nots”.

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Dunwoody Mom

The scores in DeKalb were basically flat and are among the lowest in the state. They are the lowest in Metro Atlanta.

There was an improvement in social studes but more than 4 out of every 10 8th graders failed the test. In science, HALF THE EIGHTH graders failed. HALF. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? In math, one in three failed. Actually a little more than one in three. THIS IS BAD.

I am not a fan of standardized testing, but I gotta tell you these scores paint a pretty bleak picture of instruction in DeKalb.

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You have discipline in Fayette County Schools. I know. My sons attended Fayette County Schools. Matthew is still a student there. Robert just graduated.

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unpopular opinion …… hit the nail on the head !! it really is that simple

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Smaller districts, made up of smaller area’s are the answers. Look at what you are saying, Buford, Decatur, Marietta all out perform Gwinett, Dekalb and Cobb as a whole, but are diverse. They are made up of the immediate Cities. Parent’s don’t have to worry about the politics of these 50,000 to 150,000 student mega districts. You have small town districts, with one maybe two high schools and its feeder schools. They even accept outside students for modest tuition. In the case of Marietta, your student can go to the 6th grade academy if they can get accepted if they live in Cobb County for only $3,000 in annual tuition. This is a real deal vs. going to Campbell Middle School with its 99% free lunch and 99% minority. The only other option if you are white and middle class is to go to private school is to pay $12,000 to 22,000 for private school.

Small community based school, get more community involvement. Less people being not involved. Live in a small village, small town, everyone shows up for the parades, the community festivals, the volunteer days at the schools. People don’t scam for free lunch, they don’t scam for food stamps. the clerk in the grocery store or lunch lady might be their next door neighbor or go to their church. The rest of the village might know they aren’t reading to their kids. Or better yet, the elderly man or lady next door might volunteer to help your stuggling child to read or do math, in exchange for some help with chores around their house.

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What do CRCT scores tell us?

1. The cut scores and expectations are too low. Compare these scores to the ITBS if you want sticker shock.

2. Economic level does matter….more than anything.

3. Gwinnett must be doing something right! Their scores are actually higher than Buford City and on par with Decatur City (which the AJC highlighted for good results). Gwinnett, a majority-minority district substantially outperforms Cobb and Fulton!! Can they share their secrets??

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@ another comment

Go back and look at the scores again. Gwinnett’s scores are MUCH higher than Marietta’s, a little higher than Buford’s and about the same as Decatur’s.

Gwinnett, more than even Forsyth and Fayette must be doing something correct.

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The first step to a long-term fix for this problem is to desolve Clayton County,
and divide it up, merge it, or some other dissolution.

Clayton County is a joke and and a disgrace.

It has become a soci-economic wasteland, thanks in part to the idiots
that have been running the county and school system for 30 years.

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@Maureen–Very true statement…That’s way my county is fairing well in this testing enviroment. THe superintendent leaves the principals alone and lets them do their work! Glad he didn’t go to Cobb!

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@concerned teacher. Thanks. Since this is known, why do we continue to accept the results? I am flabbergasted and frustrated. Where is the will to change the expectations and demand better from our state leaders? How many and whose fingers are in the pie? Where are the grass roots efforts to increase rigor and install concrete, definable assessments? If the show was correct, and it featured an interview with Arne Duncan, we’ve been told are kids are doing great when in reality their learning 60 % of the material. What aggravates me more is the fact that the standards have been maipulated and reduced in rigor to further dilute instruction. We’ve had a statewide fraud perpetuated on us.

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Amen Dr. No and Dave! The sooner we accept these proven inherent differences, the sooner we can strive to educate and help kids based on their ability. People are just not all the same, and never will be.

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sorry for the typos, I meant to write ” our” instead of ” are” children, and manipulated instead of “maipulated”.

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Oops – too many typeo’s – toward positive academic behavior

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Concerned teacher, I heard that some of the students recieved a modified version of the CRCT. How was that process rolled out? What exactly does modified mean? How were those results counted toward AYP? I think that this testing process is the tip of the iceburg.

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Friends … as a teacher and a tutor, I have to jump in … with great respect and affection … but the typo apologies are getting on my nerve!

Here’s some “Post Writing Tips From Your Friend Tad The Tutor!”

1. Write your post in a word processing application
2. Run the spell checker
3. Read the post out loud
4. Make edits … changes … corrections
5. Run the spell checker again
6. Read it … one more time … out loud is always best
7. Take a deep breath. Curse the name of Tad. Fine
8. Copy the post and paste it into the window
9. Read the post one more time … and make a few paragraphs out of huge blocks of text for the readability of the reader and because you trust Tad’s advice and because now you’re really having fun
10. Curse the name of Tad one more time … but now you’ll have a post that reflects your dedication to good writing and your willingness to accept sincerely-given anonymous posting advice
11. Watch the compliments about your well written post full of no typos pour in!

http://www.adixiediary.com

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Using the GA DOE website, for the school year 2009-2010 following is a list of systems and the percentage of students on free and reduced lunches. Anyone notice a correlation between economic status of the students and CRCT pass scores?
Decatur- 26%
Cobb- 41%
Gwinett-50%
Buford 51%
Marietta-64%
Dekalb-66%
Atlanta-78%
Clayton-80%

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Many of our sped kids got the modified version in their areas of exceptionality. It had a lot of read-to, as well as additional clue boxes with information you would expect a proficient kid to know. Supposedly, in our system, NONE of the kids at our school who got CRCTM failed those sections with the modifications! (Could we give the CRCTM to everybody?)

Ms. Downey, does this data include the second, “summer school” administration for those who failed the first go-around? It says April and May, and our kids took the CRCT summer school version about May 24. However, there are some systems that actually have summer school after school is out, so presumably they are just now taking it?

I notice there is a 10 pt plus difference between our reading and math pass rates. I am guessing that is because we teach computation, and the CRCT math section tests reading comprehension as well as actual math computation. Unfortunately, we don’t teach to mastery in math computation, so that puts our kids at a huge disadvantage. And, this year, we had a tornado warning during the middle of the first math section, so we expected the upset would affect our scores.

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The kids that rec’d modified result in my county were students that rec’d special education services (IEP). All special ed students did not get to take the modified version. It was based on some criteria that the district set forth. I didn’t see the test at all. I was told that it was suppose to have larger print and give the kids clues to help them be sucessful. We did well in the sub group.

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Ms. Downey, could your computer gurus add free lunch percentage, ESOL percentage, and racial percentage (W/B/H/A) to the data (does not have to be by grade level)? It might silence some forlks, or give us food for thought in our discussion of race vs. SES. (ESOL is not the same as Hispanic percentage. Half of our Hispanic kids are not longer eligible for ESOL at any given point in time, and some counties have other non English speaking students besides Latino.) Adding sped percent and gifted percent might also be interesting.

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Can someone explain to me who created this motto for DCSS??????http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/administration/humanresources/employment.html
And with these unacceptable test scores? Give me a break.

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Inman Park Boy,
I’m suggesting nothing of the kind. But I do think we need to stop comparing apples to oranges.

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Socio-economics is the key, if you compared the test scores to majority white but “poor” Georgia counties with Forsyth, you will see the same disparity. It is funny how some people want to hold on to a false belief of superiority simply by the color of one’s skin; just thinking about that is asinine. Environment, exposure, value of education, the education of one’s parents are all influences that have little to do with skin color

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@Tad
“but the typo apologies are getting on my nerve! ”

You have but one (nerve)? Ironic.

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Let’s put this in some perspective. Ten years ago only 23% of students in 4th grade in APS were passing the CRCT in Reading and Language Arts (the old easier QCC’s). In 2011, 80% of students are passing in these subjects. Even with the level of massive distractions the district has had in the last two years, this says a lot about the amount of work that the teachers are putting in. Instead of focusing on the positives for all of the inner city districts and acknowledging the work that still needs to be done, the AJC has become educator bashing headquarters.

As an APS teacher, I will not let people who have no idea what my students and myself go through each day in order to have one test given on one day prove our worth continue to spew their ignorance.
Yes APS has its problems but our issues are no worse or better than other districts. Yes some educators cheated, but I am sure it’s no more than other districts (some erase while in other districts they tell the kids to leave the answer blank if they don’t know it and then you can guess what happens. I mean how else in a class of 8 year olds can you have only an average of 1 wrong to right eraser).
What do the results tell us on the 2011 CRCT? Progress has been made in some areas but Math and Science still need work. How is Math being taught? Are programs being used for Math and are they effective? What are the core issues for students in Math? What can you do as parents to better enhance your children’s math skills? These are the types of educational editorials that parents should what to read, not articles and blogs that say it’s the schools fault not yours.

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As a graduate of North Fulton schools and a new teacher in Atlanta Public Schools, I really appreciate your comments. There are far more factors involved in all children’s scores than just the number itself. The struggles that I had in my classroom this year were nonexistent when and where I went to school. Additionally, although my students scores were not nearly as high as I wanted them to be, we made 143% over the previous years scores. These are not success that are recognized or celebrated by the educational field.

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@ Star10—I think it is ignorance that allows you to claim cheating in classrooms with an average of 1 wrong to right erasure. I have NEVER been motivated to cheat and could care less what the CRCT results are for me. I want to make sure my first graders can read and compute fluently,above all else, spend whatever time is left on other standards (like commas in a series, which one CRCT had about 30 questions on). All of the classrooms on my grade level avg. that 1 and less than 1 on erasures. That didn’t mean our kids did not erase, it means that those erasures that were changed from wrong to right were no more than those changed from right to wrong. Please don’t misconstrue the data. Some teachers worked really hard, didn’t cheat and then someone outside of their classroom changed answers. It happened!

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@KJ’s Mom,

Let me first start by saying I as a DCSS teacher I can totally appreciate your positive involvement in your child’s education. Please continue.

However, let mention to you if any teacher told you that they did not care if the 7th graders passed or not they, I hope really did not mean it that way. I teach 2nd grade and even though my students did not take the CRCT they did have to take a bench mark. I still made every effort to prepare my students as if they were taking the CRCT. By doing this it prepared them for the next grade be it 3rd or 8th.

As for the big problem here in the Georgia school system students in many cases don’t take the learning non-tested years seriously. If they know that they are not going to be retained if they don’t pass the test they don’t try as hard. As for Towers my daughter is a teacher there and I can assure you with all (many) of the teachers that I have met it is not the teachers it is truly the students and parents. I say this from experience when I visit my daughter. I have never seen so many teachers in one school that try to help students succeed academically not only via knowledge but monetarily. Believe me my daughter has bought clothes for students who did not have, food, prom shoes-tucks, etc. A vast many of the teachers put in more than just what they are paid to do. I have even gotten majorly angry at my daughter for spending so much and not doing what is needed here first. Unfortunately, I raised her to give back. I just forgot to say you cannot give all of the time.

I don’t totally disagree with your comment about Towers however, please do not think that it is the teachers. They really and truly work hard to make Towers a much better school than it is. The community and parents (and I might even add the county) just don’t give what they should in the way that they should and neither do the students.

The Georgia Education Laws need to be revised because much of what is not allowed in schools is Georgia school laws. Behavior is the number one reason for poor academic acheivement in DCSS. The second reason is poor Code of Conduct enforcement. The rules are there in print in DCSS however, they DO NOT enforce them. The reason for much of this is that they say and feel that parents pay school taxes. Well, please correct me the world and Georgia won’t these parents still have to pay taxes regardless of whether these parents are held responsible for the child’s inappropriate behavior?

It is a shame that we must invade other counties instead of cleaning up our own.

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@Disgruntled, I understand your frustration, but the truth is SES will ALWAYS be relevant. Like @Ken, I attended schools on the Northside, however I teach on the Southside. The differences are immense. For one thing, students on the Northside come prepared for kindergarten. They already know their full name, recognize alphabet and many are reading. In my school this is not the case. Kids start school not knowing their first name. Many of the parents didn’t take advantage of the state funded pre-k program. As a result, they start behind their Northside peers. Of course their are the exceptions, but overwhelmingly, I find this to be the norm. Their problem solving skills are weaker. They haven’t been exposed to as many words. I can honestly say that the teachers in my school work extremely hard to bring these students on level. We’ve had success because students have moved percentage points on the CRCT and demonstrated in class what they’ve learned. But your idea of a level playing field is unrealistic. The playing field had to be level in the beginning.

CRCT scores should identify what strengths and weaknesses a student has. NCLB has completely ruined our public education system, and the students that it’s hurting the worst are our poorer students. All we do throughout the year is CRCT prep. The fun has been taken out of learning. Courses such as science and language arts are no longer a priority. It’s gotten to be ridiculous.

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@Unpopular Opinion…you are so right to sum it up in a nut shell. Parents or guardians are the ones who should motivate their children. It does not matter what your soci-economic status is. A book knows no such status. A person doesn’t have to live in a home worth 250,000.00 dollars or more to be active in their childs life. Most people in the U.S.A. weren’t born with a silver spoon in their mouth, most of my peers are far from it, but we do have one thing in common we are all educated ….which is something every adult should strive for when it comes to the benefits it will bring their off-spring. We can go round and round about which schools do better on the CRCT, but until parents recognize the part they must play in their children academic future these conversations are futile.

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Thank you @ Angela ~ I’m usually a lurker on these boards, but I’m starting to tune in a little more often. Thanks for your insight on Towers and I agree with you about the culture there. Sadly, it’s just not one I can put my son in. That’s just putting him on the path to failure. I’m sure the teachers there stretch themselves as much as any other teacher, unfortunately education has to be WANTED.

Kudos for your daughter for being “in the trenches”! She sounds like a soldier, indeed!

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Does anyone else see the inherent danger of things like modified CRCT tests for special education students? This seems especially harmful in a right to work state. You can’t go to a job interview and explain why they should hire you, despite your lower abilities, because you are special ed. You also can’t show them your IEP when they fire you for lack of performance.

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@KJ’s Mom, you may have already done this, but; when we received our children’s CRCT scores we divided the number missed by the total number of questions to get a percentage score of the test. Just for fun, I tabled the scores to see where the cut off scores would have to be. I tabled our two grades and discovered that the cut off score for both grades in math was a 60%. That’s right. A school official could look you in the face and tell you that your child was successfully learning the material with only a 60% score. Why did we allow education to get to this point. We are paying for this scam, yet the state can hide behing a curtain of test integrity?! Are you kidding me?

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They tell us the same as the last time – government should not be involved in providing educational services to ANYONE and should not be involved in education whatsoever, from funding through theft to regulations, to teacher licensure, to NCLB, to lunch menu subsidies, and everything else.

When is everyone going to face the reality that more money, more regulations, more talk, and more government is not the solution. Only a free market in education (which will obviously require charity services, scholarships, alternative schooling, homeschooling, community schools, and whatever the market is ALLOWED to provide is the only solution that will ever fix the problem.

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Chris:
The content is basically the same on the CRCT-M ( spec. ed test). The format is different to accommodate their needs. Based on my understanding, the questions for a reading passage are all on the same page verses questions starting on one page and then jumping over to another or number and operations questions in the same section.They still have to perform on their grade level.

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@star 10, that’s precisely the point. How is the grade level determined? How does it measure against other more academically successful states? For my children, I want to know their abilities and needs against a Much larger demographic than one state. Are 6th grade standards and expectations similar to 4th grade standards in a northeastern state? Rather than annually lowering the bar and creating more smokecreens, why don’t we take the initiative and follow some leaders in education. I’d like to see us adopt some higher standards and then have to work like mad to get there.

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There are all sorts of individual stories that defy the studies. I just believe that a higher percentage of the people who are more affluent 1) believe their children’s education is important and 2) have the where with all (free time, money, knowledge) to be able to assist the process.

My Mother taught in Southern California. She had the children of the affluent and the house servants in the same classes. She had many meetings with parents from both groups. However, she joked that the rich do not leave their children’s education to chance. They were involved with the school, and their kids knew that poor grades or detention for poor behavior would lead to punishment at home. After she retired she did some long term substitute teaching in a different district. She didn’t have one parental visit all semester. Guess which school did better on standardized testing?

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All this should change when we go to the common core state standards that was agreed upon to have a test, curriculum, and textbooks for 48 out of the 50 states. Then, we might be wishing to have our state test back.

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Look. In the school district where I live, parents are reading to their children EVERY NIGHT from the time they are 1 day old. Parents have the means to take their children on “field trips” regularly before they ever get to kindergarten. The kids are put to bed early to insure the proper amount of sleep. They are served nutritious food at every meal. When the kids get home from school they make them do their homework and help them understand any part that they are struggling with. All parents show up for open house, teacher conferences, fundraisers, etc. The parents SUPPORT the teachers. The students in my school district get TONS of exercise as almost all are involved with sports teams.

These families would be doing the same things if they lived in Dekalb or Clayton Co. and I guarantee they would excel there as well. When kids get to school each day they are ready to learn.

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Concerned Teacher. so don’t we as taxpayers determine what we pay for? Are we getting a better deal with the CRCT? I don’t think so. I understand the need for a Criterion Referenced testing, but don’t you agree that you’d rather see the results from a much more objective and transparent testing process?

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David Sims and Dr. No are right wing raciest. If anyone has any doubt then go back and look at the majority of Dr. No’s comments. David Sims, the pigment to one’s skin has nothing to do with their intellect. Only a true fool would make such a statement.

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“Harsch-Kinnane, however, was not considered nearly the divisive presence as El was perceived to be by members.” This statement was in what was supposed to be a news article in today’s edition of the AJC. This article was supposed to be factual reporting about Brenda Muhammad being elected by fellow board members to be the new Chair. There was a statement about Harsch-Kinnane planning on stepping down also as Vice Chair. But, why was the last editorializing statement about Khaatim El made? This was an un-called for dig at El. Have the new journalism grads never heard of words like “apparently” or do they not know the difference between reporting the facts and editorializing about the facts or situations? Maybe I am being too picky, but this irked me. “…by board members”? Heck, a majority of the board members elected Khaatim El and were supporting him. He stepped down on his own.

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Every school system must show growth to achieve AYP. Some systems need to get pass percents up while others must get exceeds up. Lower systems try to get passes up while higher systems try to get exceeds up. Everyone has something to work on and all districts have high expectations of students and teachers. With that said, all districts are stressed about the performance of students. We shouldn’t look at these tests comparing district to district but the districts growth over time as the state did on the gadoe website.

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Just more of the same old APS -BS…

The more you stir the APS litter box, the more it smells.
Can’t put enough fresh litter over an old smelly mess.
It still smells rancid .
Stinky, dinky…and the odor lingers.

http://www.TopPublicSchoolCorruptionAtlanta.com

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Teacher

I think you are wrong. For systems that make AYP, no one is looking at exceeds. I wish they were. It frightens me that you have students tell you that. It means there is way to much emphasis on the test.

I think you can compare like systems to like systems.

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@David Sims,

I agree with CP. Most of what I read I don’t even think you know what you were talking about. However, if you want to drop some money from the sky just let me know where and I will make sure that the RIGHT people are out there to catch it.

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Really is there anything useful that the CRCT can tell us? Looking back at the 3 pages of comments, it is a subject that takes up a lot of our time and energy but really doesn’t do much for us. It stresses teachers out because their jobs are on the line. It stresses parents out because they want their children in good standing academically. It stresses the kids out because they are frightened by the ramifications. So can anyone tell me why we do this?

PS – Just because a kid fails the CRCT does not mean that a school/system can hold that child back in school!!!

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@Jerry Eads, Do you recall how the western portion of the state fared? Christiansburg or Blacksburg, Montgomery County? Thanks.

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“…the less comfortable I am with test score results, which often speak more to the affluence of the families in a district…”

They are affluent because they are more intelligent, more motivated, and less inclined to commit crimes. They’re predominantly Caucasians and Asians and the African-Americans who managed to better themselves.

Try as you will Maureen to to massage the comparisons, the outcome will always be the same.

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The CRCT is useless,

If you have a child failing the CRCT, you should be concerned, This is a test that is very basic and not very difficult.

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Two years ago, my son who scores very well on all standardized test wound up in the 50th percentile on the reading section of one of the test…my kid reads like a maniac and recalls details and gets it, is in TAG yada yada yada… any rate, I knew his score would be lower than his normal 90+percentile or score because when I picked him up from school, he told me that his bottom was sore because he had soiled his pants during the test because he didn’t want to break rules and ask to go to the bathroom during the test. He stayed in those clothes all day because he was
embarrassed. That about sums up how I feel about any mandate be it by federal, state, or local powers. I need to add one more bit of info for kicks…my son did practice CRCT worksheets after the test were done. I live and teach in North Fulton. I will not teach to any test and I don’t give a rats $&& about helping any school improve it’s scores. By the way, my students averaged 94 on the high stakes test I give in my course…I do not teach to the test.

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WOW, this topic has gotten a whole whole lot of attention. The bottom line to who passes the CRCT and who does not, education and its value starts at home. The schools/teachers responsiblity is to provide information and it is the student’s responsiblity to absorb that information. It has nothing to do with socio-economics or anything other than a student indulging in putting their brain to positive and effective use. We as educators by law cannot make students learn but, if we could go back to old school we would have better test scores. Because that seems to be the hottest topic in the United States education departments.

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Please notice the things in common between DCSS, APS and Clayton, Each has a dysfunctional school board. Clayton is correcting after SACS. DCSS and APS each has an African American administration. I am not familiar with Clayton. ,

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@Incredulous, I get to put myself out here because I no longer work for state government, but that also means I don’t have my hands on the data . HOWEVER, if you’ll look at Maureen’s links with her piece, there are links to some look up menus that will get you what you’re after.

@teacher&mom – OH ABSOLUTELY! I never meant at all to imply that teachers have no impact. You turn kids’ lives around every day. But you’re right, the CRCT has virtually NOTHING to do with actual learning. You could help a child realize enormous progress, to just one point below the pass level, and neither you nor your student are recognized for it. She and you are simply punished with failure. Let’s be clear though: even IF we had tests that measured PROGRESS (and they’d cost easily 2-3 times what the minimum competency tests do), they would be horribly inaccurate at the individual student – and for that matter classroom – level. Your own grading and testing and observing, because you do it EVERY DAY of EVERY YEAR, is infinitely more accurate and useful than this one test per year trap we’ve been dragged into by the state’s leaders who have been naively duped or conned into believing we’re learning something worthwhile from these tests. Go back and look at the pass rates over the past however many years – you’ll notice that after the initial spurt driven by all the teaching to the test (having very little to do with actual learning), the pass rates just kinda bounce around at the same level (except for the travesty caused by the unconscionably incompetent implementation of the changed math standards (not to be confused with curriculum, by the way).

I’m ecstatic you have the luxury to still focus on your teaching rather than test prep – so many do not. Much enjoy your thinking here, by the way.

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Congratulations, Robert! You’ve just won the prize for racist of the day!

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@ Jerry I always volunteer a lot and I see a lot of things some teachers mad and some come in everyday with joy in there hearts no matter what is going on at home. Please leave problems the at home. Some can’t wait to take a cigarette smoke outside. I been on trips and the teachers are suppose to help some don’t even care where the child is. My sister is a teacher and a very good one goes out of her way to help those children. Like is said if they don’t like there jobs please leave and find something that they love ( I say that in love). I wish that i can grade the principals also because some of them don’t come out of there office enough until the big people come and want to clean up and act like there doing something. I’m sorry if the kids don’t want to learn please remove them from the room so that the other kids can learn.

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These are percentages and in comparison more students being tested is going to give you a larger margin for era for large districts. 94% of 300 8th grade students in a whole district is 282 students passing. 68% of 6000 students 8th grade students is 4080 students passing. This shows that their are a lot of students making minimal progress but, there are a lot of students that still need help in many areas whether it be better school, teacher, or PARENTS THAT ARE INVOLVED before the last week of school when it is to late. But there are some positives. PARENTS THAT ARE INVOLVED meaning you encourage your child to read daily and do word problems and science experiments and other engaging activities at home during the summers and weekends is the answer to increasing these scores. As for my house, education starts before you go to the school building.

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Robert said, “They are affluent because they are more intelligent, more motivated, and less inclined to commit crimes. They’re predominantly Caucasians and Asians and the African-Americans who managed to better themselves. Try as you will Maureen to to massage the comparisons, the outcome will always be the same.”

Excellent comment, Robert! I couldn’t have said it better myself, and I’ve had lots of practice!

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@ David Sims
Ah, the old blackberry jam story. You remember, the best blackberry jam is only produced when you start with the best blackberries!!! All the cooks on the FoodNetwork place primary emphasis on that premise.

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@RJ My child did attend a Georgia funded Pre-K program. She started school knowing her name, numbers etc… I did read to her everyday and we did homework everyday after school… She started as most of her peers on the “North-side” even, the same amount of “eggs in her basket ” as the others. Same parental involvement same exposure… The difference…. she lives here on the side with the “undesirables” and they live there… Even if they do have different situations at home, EVERY child should have the precious opportunity to be taught and valued as a human and not a statistic.

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I should have added that my childs grades immediately went up and so did her self esteem.

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TO: UGA Faculty, Staff and Students

FROM: Rebecca Macon, Registrar

Under the newly approved University Council bylaws section on matters of particular urgency, which was passed at the April 21, 2011 University Council meeting, the Executive Committee is allowed to approve items in place of the full University Council when the matter is deemed urgent. In such cases, the full council has the chance to confirm or rescind the action at its next meeting.

The Board of Regents has approved new Bachelor of Science degrees in Engineering for the University of Georgia. However, in attempting to hire new faculty for these programs, there has been some difficulty in that the best faculty wish to serve at institutions with Ph.D. programs. UGA planned to add Ph.D.’s in these new engineering fields soon, so the process has been requested to be expedited. Because the Board of Regents requires proposals for new degree programs to be received by July 1, 2011 in order to be on the agenda for their October meeting, President Adams and Provost Morehead asked for a vote on the new Ph.D. degree, as well as a new Masters degree, using the Executive Committee’s function to approve items deemed matters of particular urgency. The Executive Committee agreed to this request. As a side note, no new resources will be needed to add these programs, as the faculty are already being hired for the B.S. programs. The new degree programs were also passed by the University Curriculum Committee via an email vote on June 9, 2011.

Regarding this Matter of Particular Urgency vote on the two proposed degrees, a proposal to offer a new major in Engineering (M.S) and a new major in Engineering (Ph.D.), the vote passed in an email vote by the Executive Committee 14-0. The results of the voting will be placed on the agenda for the first Executive Committee meeting of the new term as an information item. It will then be placed on the agenda of the first University Council meeting of the new term as a confirmation item, where the full council has the opportunity to confirm or rescind the vote taken by Executive Committee, which is in accordance with the bylaws.

The minutes of this action can be found at the link below:

https://apps.reg.uga.edu/UniversityCouncil/publicC ommitteeMeeting/showMinutes/94

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Rebecca Macon, Registrar

Secretary to University Council

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@Maureen, I think your comment on Cherokee County was on track. I hope the improvements are noted by parents and local politicians. Cherokee is a well mixed district with not a lot of the wealth seen in other counties. Thank you for the recognition.

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embearassing…….

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Ah, where to begin? And why bother, since half of my comments are never taken off moderation?

@ticked off teacher.

You’re right. I’ve been a racist since about 1996. I was in the National Alliance from 1998-2003. I’m no longer in that group, but I’m still a racist and a white nationalist. You don’t need to send anybody on a long and difficult paper-chase. Just ask me.

You’re right again! The pigment of one’s skin has nothing to do with one’s intelligence. But both base skin pigmentation—the degree of pigmentation that you’re born with, without enhancement by prolonged exposure to sunlight—and IQ are racial variables. Both are controlled by that fraction of the human genome that differs broadly between one race and another.

Let’s consider a parallel situation. Skin pigmentation doesn’t cause the texture of the hair, either. But as we all know, both skin pigmentation and hair texture are racially variable. People born with dark skin tend to have woolly or knappy hair. People born with fair skin tend to have relatively fine and straight hair.

Do you see how it is plausible that intelligence (and lots of other things) might show a correlation with skin color, even though the differences in skin color did not cause the differences in intelligence? I sure hope so. Because if this explanation didn’t turn the light bulb on, then there isn’t much voltage in that head of yours.

Since you can’t even seem to spell “racist” correctly, may I ask where it is you teach? Which school in the greater Atlanta area has such low standards for teachers that you managed to get a job there?

@ANGELA.

You said (to me), “Most of what I read I don’t even think you know what you were talking about.” You were referring to my claim that money won’t improve the test scores of black students in Clayton, Dekalb, or Atlanta because the bottleneck in the potential for score improvement isn’t the funding of the schools or the residents who use those schools, but rather the IQs of the students who attend them.

Do I know what I’m talking about? Only as a secondary researcher. I’m not in a position to do primary research in intelligence testing, lacking both the qualifications as a psychometrician and the resources to act as if I were one. But I’m a rather good secondary researcher. I’ve hit the books, and if I’m not all the way up to speed on the subject of racial variability in intelligence, then I’m certainly ahead of the non-specialist pack.

I know, for example, that each race has a distribution of intelligence that resembles a normal distribution to a reasonably good first approximation. According to “Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Ability,” by J. Philippe Rushton and Arthur R. Jensen (published in Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 2005, Vol. 11, No. 2, pp. 235-294), the average IQ for US-resident whites is 103 and the average IQ of US-resident blacks is 85. A study on large samples of whites and blacks carried out in 1963 by Kennedy, Van De Riet, and White found that the standard deviation in IQ for US-resident whites is 16.4 points, whereas the standard deviation for blacks is 12.4.

So very good models for the distribution of intelligence in whites and blacks, resident in the United States, is given by these normal distributions:

Whites: 103 ± 16.4
Blacks: 85 ± 12.4

Now I’ll show you how to figure out the fraction of a race has an IQ above a specified value, if you know its average IQ and its standard deviation in IQ. Here’s the equation:

f(μ) = [σ√(2π)]⁻¹ ∫(μ,∞) exp{ −[(x−x̄)/σ]²/2 } dx

Where
μ = the minimum acceptable IQ (e.g., to qualify for an intellectually demanding job)
σ = the race’s standard deviation in IQ
x̄ = the race’s average IQ

Let us say that an employer wants to hire people for a certain kind of work which requires a minimum IQ of 130 to do well, and that this employer’s business is in a demographically average part of the United States (i.e., whites outnumber blacks by about six to one). He accepts employment applications from job-seekers of all races, and he resolves to judge each applicant without any racial bias whatever.

But since the races have different distributions of IQ, the fraction of persons having IQs above 130 will be different for each race. Having just punched the buttons on my handy CASIO fx-9860gii SD calculator, I find that about one white person in 20 would be smart enough to handle the work. However, only one black in 7030 would be similarly smart.

If the employer were in an area having equal numbers of white and black residents, his determination to hire without racial bias would lead to him hiring only one black for each 350 white people he hired. However, since there are six times more whites than blacks in his area, he will have hired completely without racial bias if he hires only one black for each 2100 whites he hires.

So… now do you think that maybe I know what I’m doing?

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CRCT scores don’t give us any more insight into students than they ever have, but they certainly highlight things about parents, teachers and administrators (and blog commenters). Interesting that scores seem to go down in 6th and 8th grade, the “important” years. Could that have anything to do with the overwhelming emphasis on The Test in those grades? Tons of research on the fact that test emphasis can actually make scores go down (including one small-scale study in GA).

To the poster who mentioned the Common Core assessments that are coming (piloted by Georgia and a couple other states): those actually hold some promise, more than the CRCT. The Common Core testing is rumored to actually consist of (at least) four tasks, only one of which is a high-stakes tetsing event. The tasks will be spread across the school year and will be more like a portfolio of work than a column of numbers. I think the goal is to also measure a child against him/herself over the years, but that may be Pollyanna wishful thinking.

The CRCT is on its last legs. Hopefully Georgia will not try to cling to it.

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Stop molesting kids

June 22nd, 2011
3:54 pm

LOL…I guess we also would want to find a program to assist in the prevention of black men being unsuccessful at armed robberys of convenience and liquor stores.

PS…If you have children please dont bring them around any white men. It could be unsafe.

ticked off teacher

June 22nd, 2011
5:09 pm

The truth is neither racist or bigoted. Sorry you cant handle it but continue your mindset as Im sure success for you is just a “glory to God” away.

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“Wrong. What you are noticing is a racial gap in academic performance, which has a biological cause. Your insistence that the cause of the gaps is economic has, itself, a political cause. You leftist, you.

Expecting social interventions to remedy problems caused by innate racial differences is like expecting to douse fires by throwing gasoline on them, or expecting brick walls to puff into vapor for your convenience. Wise up. You’re wrong.”

If that’s the case, why do African Americans perform differently across districts and states? Gwinnett county’s African Americans perform at a much higher level than those in Clayton County. Also, African Americans is Newark, New Jersey perform exponentially better than those in Atlanta, GA. If the answer was solely genetic, how do you explain the difference in performance?

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I’ll let everyone in on a little CRCT secret. Let’s take the middle grades math section. There are 60 questions in that section. To have a passing score (level 2) you only need to have 31 correct answers, which equates to 51% with a score of 800. Has anyone ever passed a class with a grade of 51? To score at level 3 or exceeds, you need to have 50 correct questions, or 83%. I think this puts things in perspective with the CRCT. We need to think about why so many students cannot get 51% of the questions correct. Food for thought: with such a low standard, is this test really a true representation of student ability? We really need to look at why more students are not scoring at level 3.

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All standardized test scores are a joke save for the ITBS. It’s all a sham for the testing companies that are in bed with the textbook companies that are owned in part or whole by shady politicians. If you don’t believe me, look it up. Educate yourself. As long as politicians continue grandstanding about education instead of really dealing with the problems head on, this kind of nonsense will continue. The lower performing students are just pawns in this game and as long as these politicians are allowed to make the rules that’s all they’ll ever be. Once (if ever) people wake up to the fact that people are not the same and that they never will be, maybe this one size fits all approach will end. Sorry to tell all you liberals out there, but not everyone is capable of the same outcomes no matter how much you wish it were true. Just an example that will really tee you off, I’m smarter than a lot of people out there. I’ll wait for you to pick your jaws up off the ground because I had the audacity to tell a truth. Here’s another truth; there a re a lot of people smarter than me. Does that make me mad or want to sue someone for the inequity of it all? Hell no!! That’s life and life isn’t fair so get used to it.

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While teaching at a university in Florida, I used to compare FCAT (Florida’s tests) scores to each other controlling to the percentage of students on free/reduced school lunch. Each semester I would need to devote more than a class period to the topic…students would naturally be divided up into many different camps either supporting the practice or not…and what the statistics actually meant.

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BTW…for fun, and I use the term “fun” very loosely, I went ahead and calculated the correleations (using the “correl” function on Excel) with all the mean scores (as well as the % exceeds standard and % does not meet standard) for 6th grade. As one would expect, scores on the reading test accounted for nearly 70% of most other test scores. The only interesting one was reading only accounting for about 45% of the percentage of students in a district that did not meet the standard in science. OMG I need a life!

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The whole thing is a crock. You pass if you get something like 40% correct. Why do you think they report scores with “800″ as passing, “850″ as exceeding. They won’t give you a straight percent correct. At least the taxpayers get to pay a bazillion bucks to yet another greedy corporation to make these crap tests.

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@Maureen – For me, the vast amounts of money we have wasted on standardized testing will alway outweigh the pros. I’d rather see the money invested at the classroom level. Heck, maybe we could actually allow the 5-10 year old crowd to participate in daily PE and bring back art and music. Imagine that!

I’d also love to see more money spent on diagnostic testing in the earlier grades and then resources and additional personnel to address the learning issues identified by the testing.

Open the school doors in the summer for struggling learners and create fun, but innovative summer programs for elementary and middle school students.

Bring back field trips!

Invest in quality equipment for science labs and vocational classes.

I could keep going but I think I’ve made my point. We have sacrificed all the above for standardized tests. Make no mistake, the recent draconian cuts to education did not include cuts to standardized testing.

I find that sad and borderline criminal.

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Sci Teach 671, you’re absolutely correct…math teachers must perform miracles. However, from my somewhat limited experience and observations, they must first become miracles. Knowing math is one thing; being able to impart that knowledge is something else entirely different. As a novice teacher, I was observing a so-called “seasoned” teacher, winner of all flavor of accolades, attempting to explain a math concept. As I watched this teacher stumble through a concept which she, apparently, never fully grasped, I watched those kids’ faces, in futile anguish, as they strained to understand what the hell she was talking about. After a few moments of observing mental torture, I had to offer my humble input…not for that “esteemed” teacher, but for those kids who appeared to really want an explanation. Following my brief on the topic, several kids, in completely innocent honesty, said they liked my explanation better than Ms So and So’s. Of course, I received a dirty look from So-and-So, and I am quite certain I made the poo poo list of those teachers in whom she recanted the story.

This, and a number of similar episodes, convinced me that maybe, just maybe, this choice of career transition may not have been such a hot idea. As we complain about the bad ole administrators, indifferent parents, etc, etc, etc…we may lose site of one minor detail. Based on what I have both read and ascertained, the entire teacher corps seems to have contracted into a “defensive perimeter” of sorts. While they (facelessly) complain, no one seems to take the extra steps in saving the profession and, in the end, new generations of kids. They simply go about the routines of butting heads (their own included) trying to shove some “larnin” into young skulls while, the teachers themselves, do not appear to have received much in the way of that very same larnin.

Good thought; good intentions in and of themselves are fine things, but not enough. Call me disgruntled, if you will…disregard these words as so much of an attempt to “create additional havoc” in the educational circus. I have no bones on the issue; I have regrouped my energies and, if I do say so myself, have done remarably well, both professionally and financially, certainly much more so than if I had decided to remain within the disfunctional circus of primary education.

While we glow in the artificial lights of CRCT “improvements” and all the other yardsticks which seem to have become nothing more than artificial props which serve only to pacify the educational elites, we tend to ignore the basic weaknesses in the entire system. As much as I respect the profession, and what I recall of that profession from my earlier days, I see very little in the contemporary teacher cops of today which will ease my concern that, regardless of the money, regardless of the “programs” of one ilk or another, and all the legislative happyn talk, we are going nowhere. The reason I continue with the “we”? Because, while I, and many of my generational contemporaries, continue to make “footprints” on society, I know it is only a matter of time before my contemporaries and I are going to have to hang up our spurs and take a long lunch. Can the current teacher corps produce our replacements? Will those replacements have what it takes…the guts and the smarts…to actually make things better? It’s all up to you, teach!

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Say what you want but these facts are not to be denied:

During Dr. Hall’s tenure as superintendent there have been notable improvements in APS. First among them is her invitation to the broader community to partner with the schools. She knew she would need the business community, parents, public officials, non-profit organizations and civic groups to tackle the challenges that the schools faced. Many contributed to the success of Atlanta’s students over the last 12 years.

Some highlights:
· A district record $129 million in college scholarships earned by graduates in 2010, which is up from $9 million in 2000
· $160 million invested in APS by national and local philanthropic groups
· An approximate 30 point increase in district wide graduation rate
· A total of $1 billion invested in constructing and renovating state-of-the-art schools; Atlanta Public Schools has built 17 new schools and renovated more than 60 others, thanks to taxpayer support

In the old days, respect for one another, the skill of negotiating compromises, developing consensus and the humility we gained in the process in those meetings bound a hundred or so of us together as cheerleaders for each other and opened my eyes to what this city could accomplish.

As Beverly Hall prepares to leave, I think when she came to Atlanta she also saw the potential of what could be accomplished in a city that was committed to working together. She knew she couldn’t do it alone and she reached out to the entire community. It is also fair to say that she has seen victory and defeat. Despite the serious challenges during the last two years, in my opinion the victories far outnumber the defeats.

As she packs her bags for her final day as superintendent, thank you Beverly Hall for your leadership and service to Atlanta. She leaves the school district significantly better than she found it.

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Great! Perhaps she will also leave prison significantly better than she found it.

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Gator, you’re dead on about Dumbya creating this mess. If you look at one of the main players in this whole boondoggle it’s none other than Jeb Bush. If you think our education system is in shambles now, if Jeb gets into office it’s all over. He single destroyed the public school system in Florida with his version of the CRCT called the FCAT. Whereas the CRCT is used to measure schools and not grade them (yet) the FCAT was and is used as a bludgeoning weapon of mass distraction in Florida. For failing schools and non failing schools alike there’s a practice test company that would, for a huge fee, provide practice test and other study materials. Guess who’s the ceo of said company? Jeb’s retarded brother, that’s who. Guess which company got all the major contracts to provide these testing materials. Jeb’s retarded brother. I’m not saying retarded to be mean, the guy really is retarded, but Jeb put him in charge so it would look like Jeb was on the up and up. He’s evil pure and simple in the same way as Michelle Rhee is evil. They blame the teachers for everything because they want public schools abolished so they can make a mint off their private school businesses and testing companies.

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Hey RBN, stop making sense! All that truth stuff gives people a headache. Don’t forget, an illiterate group of people is much easier to control. Need proof? Look at all the countries were”helping” with our armed forces.

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system.

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It’s not race but culture. Some of our kids belong to a culture that just does not value education. If you do not value education, why do your best on the test. I have issues with the CRCT lets just put it at that. I think it would be better if we had a diagnostic test in beginning of year and give students another test at the end of the year to monitor progress through the year.

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Maybe Dekalb is trying to get connected people jobs before the new super comes in.

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The sad thing about Georgia’s testing program is there have been few , if any longitudinal studies to determine the value or lack thereof in passing the CRCT, GHSGT or the old BST. The amount of money spent evaluating annual growth is ridiculous. How can we spend so much and simply evalaute each years results with no concern for what these results really mean? Have you ever wondered why it takes so long to get the results back? Well, once the scores are in they begin to manipulate the data. If too many fail the 8th grade math test they can up the percentages in say algebra and take a few percentage points from numbers and computation. Imagine how bad the scores would be if they simply scored and reported. The only real value of these tests is an estimate of student progress. The only time anyone ever cares is when the AJC puts the results out.

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Some comments have criticized the author for avoiding an honest discussion of race as a factor. Let’s look at some facts and maybe we can learn something about the validity of these criticisms.

Compare Terrell County with Bacon County.

http://www.ajc.com/news/2011-georgia-crct-results-983502.html?appSession=213302458770137

http://www.ajc.com/news/2011-georgia-crct-results-983502.html?appSession=028302458808626#start

Terrell’s students score much lower in every subject and in every grade. Now look at the counties’ demographics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrell_County,_Georgia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon_County,_Georgia

Incomes are about the same. Terrell is 61% black; Bacon is 82% white.

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The vast numbers of job postings within any organization can only point out one sad fact (other than mass retirements)…the rats are jumping ship. The organizational ship has ceased to be a source of sustenance for the rats…both the big rats and the little rats. As a result, the remaining rats hurriedly hire any rat who expresses the faintest interest in feeding upon the remains.

I offer this unsavory view only to exemplify the fact that all-too-many “decision makers”, as well as the “worker bees”, probably could not be any less qualified for the job. The school systems themselves are probably staffed and maned up with the least-qualified people who are simply looking for a job.

For far far too long, we seem to have been content with simply thrashing about, complaining about one issue or another, when the real problem lies in just how the powers that be go about surrounding themselves with the best people they can find.

Maybe, just maybe, if the school systems’ hr departments got a little more involved in the process of finding the best, instead of those who simply want a job, we might start seeing some surprising results in many other areas, CRCT administration/management being one of these crucial topics.

Rather than go after each problem on a piecemeal basis, I am quite confident that if the systems take the time to do this, many good things might come about.

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Along with test scores being better for those of a certain race/ethnicity…their ice is also colder!

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The focus on standardized test scores such as the CRCT is overrated. Consider how the benchmarks for “passing” are stealthily raised every so often. Does anyone realize how much the curriculum has been pushed further down? For example, the math I took in high school is now taught in the middl grades. Why? What’s so critical about this? And the paranoia over test scores? The scores are never going to look good, because the bar is continually raised. Oh, I forgot, our kids have to compete in a global economy. Who cares!!!

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“CRCT scores should identify what strengths and weaknesses a student has. NCLB has completely ruined our public education system, and the students that it’s hurting the worst are our poorer students. All we do throughout the year is CRCT prep. The fun has been taken out of learning. Courses such as science and language arts are no longer a priority. It’s gotten to be ridiculous.”

I have been a teacher for 27 years now. This is the worst I ‘ve seen it in terms of management (which has become micro-management), less creativity, more accountability, and worse results…go figure!

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I love it when anti-public school people criticize the public schools that do not do well on the CRCT’s, SAT’s, etc. and then say “What have they proven?” when they do well. Can’t have it both ways folks. Nice try.

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