CRCT scores are in: What do they tell us this time?
The state released state CRCT scores by system today, with strong metro performances by students in Cherokee, Fayette, Decatur and Buford.
Clayton and Atlanta had some of the lowest scores.
The longer I report on education, the less comfortable I am with test score results, which often speak more to the affluence of the families in a district than the proficiency of either the schools or the teachers.
I think a fairer comparison is to juxtapose scores in systems with similar socio-economics. If you are interested, here is the AJC database that will allow you to look at district performance.
A DeKalb parent has already looked at that system’s scores and noted that, “If you go look at the score report, you will find that in 8th grade, DCSS had lower pass rates than either Clayton or Atlanta in 8th grade reading and math. In fact, Clayton’s pass rate for reading (8th grade) was actually 2 percentage points higher than DeKalb.”
For example, among eighth graders who must pass the math portion of the CRCT to automatically be promoted to ninth grade, the statewide passing rate was 77.7 percent. In Atlanta Public Schools, the passing rate was 65.9 percent, and in Clayton, it was 68.3 percent. By comparison, the passing rate on that same test was 89.6 percent in Cherokee County, 93.4 percent in Fayette County, 86.8 percent in Buford and 94.6 percent in Decatur.
Forsyth County, an affluent north Atlanta suburb and traditionally a top test performer, had a 96.9 percent passing rate on the eighth grade math test, the best reported in the state.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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199 comments Add your comment
concerned teacher
June 22nd, 2011
5:01 pm
@ Incredulous Yes..I would. but to be honest ..I think the state department is just doing what they were told under NCLB. I am sure it’s nothing different than the other states are doing based on what I have heard. The state boards probably got together to figure out how to get around not looking so bad to the federal government and made a decision.
Dr. John Trotter
June 22nd, 2011
5:04 pm
“Harsch-Kinnane, however, was not considered nearly the divisive presence as El was perceived to be by members.” This statement was in what was supposed to be a news article in today’s edition of the AJC. This article was supposed to be factual reporting about Brenda Muhammad being elected by fellow board members to be the new Chair. There was a statement about Harsch-Kinnane planning on stepping down also as Vice Chair. But, why was the last editorializing statement about Khaatim El made? This was an un-called for dig at El. Have the new journalism grads never heard of words like “apparently” or do they not know the difference between reporting the facts and editorializing about the facts or situations? Maybe I am being too picky, but this irked me. “…by board members”? Heck, a majority of the board members elected Khaatim El and were supporting him. He stepped down on his own.
blue_moon
June 22nd, 2011
5:04 pm
Has anyone mentioned that the APS 65.9% pass rate exceeds the 2010 pass rate of 63.8%? The district is making progress.
Teacher
June 22nd, 2011
5:07 pm
Every school system must show growth to achieve AYP. Some systems need to get pass percents up while others must get exceeds up. Lower systems try to get passes up while higher systems try to get exceeds up. Everyone has something to work on and all districts have high expectations of students and teachers. With that said, all districts are stressed about the performance of students. We shouldn’t look at these tests comparing district to district but the districts growth over time as the state did on the gadoe website.
ticked off teacher
June 22nd, 2011
5:09 pm
David Sims
I guess when white people tan they become dumber….
Top School
June 22nd, 2011
5:14 pm
Just more of the same old APS -BS…
The more you stir the APS litter box, the more it smells.
Can’t put enough fresh litter over an old smelly mess.
It still smells rancid .
Stinky, dinky…and the odor lingers.
http://www.TopPublicSchoolCorruptionAtlanta.com
Teacher
June 22nd, 2011
5:19 pm
You can’t figure percents of passing based on percentile scores. These tests have field questions for grades above and below for future tests. The released scores don’t take into account the retests in 3rd grade reading, 5th grade reading and math, and 8th grade reading, math, and science. Kids know that they don’t have to pass all subjects and will tell you that. I have even had kids tell me in 3 and 5th grades that they don’t have to pass them at all that they still get to go on to the next grade. 4th graders told me they don’t have to pass any subject to go to 5th grade. Kids are smart and find out loop holes too.
Write Your Board Members
June 22nd, 2011
5:23 pm
Teacher
I think you are wrong. For systems that make AYP, no one is looking at exceeds. I wish they were. It frightens me that you have students tell you that. It means there is way to much emphasis on the test.
I think you can compare like systems to like systems.
Vince
June 22nd, 2011
5:28 pm
Hmmmm…. Dr. Trotter is upset because the AJC exercised its First Amendment rights in a way he didn’t like? He feels, perhaps, that they did not know or report the entire true story before writing their article??
Dr. Trotter, meet the black kettle! Mr. Black Kettle please meet Dr. Trotter!
How many times has MACE organized pickets outside of schools when they only know one side of a story?
ANGELA
June 22nd, 2011
5:32 pm
@David Sims,
I agree with CP. Most of what I read I don’t even think you know what you were talking about. However, if you want to drop some money from the sky just let me know where and I will make sure that the RIGHT people are out there to catch it.
Jerry Eads
June 22nd, 2011
5:35 pm
The answer to your title, of course, is: Very, very little. Test results are extremely highly related to SES. Several posters seem to be blaming or crediting the parents, and indeed, almost all of a test result, whether it be PASS RATE (which we have) or scores (WHICH WE DO NOT HAVE), is the result of opportunity outside the school. Some years ago when I was running Virginia state testing, the Georgia head of testing would call me up after the NAEP results were released and grouse “How is it you beat the pants off us again?” to which I’d answer: “Simple. Fairfax County (DC’s biggest bedroom community) is 10% of my population. You could put those kids in a closet during school and they’d still ace those tests.” At the time, there were hardly any free- or reduced-lunch students in that county. Like Gwinnett (which is how half free lunch!), that is not to say that Fairfax did not do an incredible job with those kids – but they were not preparing them to pass minimum competency tests, but to go on to the Harvards and MITs and UVAs of the country. Virginia’s minimum competency tests then, like Georgia’s now, appeared incredibly stupid and boring to any student over, say, the 30th percentile. The sad part is that these tests simply drive many of our or any other state’s schools to focus on perhaps 5% of the state’s students – those right around the pass level of a test – at the expense of both those for whom there’s no chance to pass or those who can do so in their sleep. In other words, these tests are of absolutely no value for 95% of the kids. OR their teachers.
Sadly, it would seem that some posters here would have the low income kids stay in their social class; the whole point of our public schools addressing the education of those students is to help them NOT repeat the lives of their forbears. Sometimes we succeed. Assuming that the state is smart enough to unload its enormously destructive accountability approach, perhaps districts like APS can get away from their primary role being rigging test results and get back to teaching students.
The CRCT is Useless!
June 22nd, 2011
5:38 pm
Really is there anything useful that the CRCT can tell us? Looking back at the 3 pages of comments, it is a subject that takes up a lot of our time and energy but really doesn’t do much for us. It stresses teachers out because their jobs are on the line. It stresses parents out because they want their children in good standing academically. It stresses the kids out because they are frightened by the ramifications. So can anyone tell me why we do this?
PS – Just because a kid fails the CRCT does not mean that a school/system can hold that child back in school!!!
Jerry Eads
June 22nd, 2011
5:42 pm
@Teacher, if only we had tests that showed growth. All we have are tests that show changes in the pass rates on tests with arbitrarily set pass levels. Those pass levels are the equivalent of as low as perhaps the 5th to 15th percentile in norm-referenced terms. For any given test, you’re only looking at the changes in perhaps 5% and at absolute most 10% of the student population taking the test. The rest of them, research shows, assuming we had scale scores that could be analyzed (and we do not – they’re not good enough), might well be LOSING ground. The state’s minimum competency tests are telling us only a tiny, tiny bit about a very, very few students.
Incredulous
June 22nd, 2011
5:47 pm
@Jerry Eads, Do you recall how the western portion of the state fared? Christiansburg or Blacksburg, Montgomery County? Thanks.
Wondering
June 22nd, 2011
5:48 pm
Now that we have the test scores and know the top schools and teachers, why don’t we create some competition?
I think those top teachers should start accepting applications to be in their classes next year. All students should complete their applications and submit them with their test scores and transcripts, and the teachers get to select the best performing students as theirs for next year. Those students not selected will just need to go to their second or third or … choice. Teachers that can’t fill their classes will be converted to part-time or let go.
Instead of schools competing for students (the charter school model), this would be students competing for the best teachers. Anyone up for some competition?
As a final point, transportation (school buses) will still only run to the local schools. If your choice of teacher isn’t where you live, you will need to provide transportation.
Robert
June 22nd, 2011
5:54 pm
“…the less comfortable I am with test score results, which often speak more to the affluence of the families in a district…”
They are affluent because they are more intelligent, more motivated, and less inclined to commit crimes. They’re predominantly Caucasians and Asians and the African-Americans who managed to better themselves.
Try as you will Maureen to to massage the comparisons, the outcome will always be the same.
teacher&mom
June 22nd, 2011
5:55 pm
@Jerry Eads: Interesting points. I agree that poverty is a factor in how well a student performs on a standardized test, however, it does not mean the student is unable to learn. What frustrates me as a teacher, who willing works with struggling learners, is how my EOCT scores do not always reflect the actual learning and progress that takes place in my high school science classroom.
For example, many times during a test a student will raise their hand and ask for help with a question. While I don’t give away answers, I may remind them about a lab or activity, or suggest they think back to a specific assignment we completed in class. Usually this is all they need to help them get past the “road-block” in their head.
Can’t do this on a standardized test….and more often than not, the student probably knows the content, they are just stumped by the question, give up too easily and move on. I’ve watched it happen time and time again…especially with struggling learners.
I could give up precious class time and spend it on test-taking skills, but I refuse.
Write Your Board Members
June 22nd, 2011
5:56 pm
The CRCT is useless,
If you have a child failing the CRCT, you should be concerned, This is a test that is very basic and not very difficult.
Dekalb Oldtimer
June 22nd, 2011
6:08 pm
@MAUREEN …RE: “…which often speak more to the affluence of the families in a district than the proficiency of either the schools or the teachers. ”
OMG….you have finally had the epiphany!!!!! As teachers we have struggled for years and years and years to get someone with a voice to acknowledge this.
Remember all the times we have posted that the only tests that show accountability are the PRE- TEST/POSt-TEST scenario????? Progress is the only equalizing accurate measurement of student achievement.
Maybe 5 of my 7th graders reach my reading class reading at a 4th grade level……if I can get them to the 5th or 6th grade level, I am a success!!!! Even though the students are still not reading on grade level. They ARE making progress.
Dedicatedandtired
June 22nd, 2011
6:18 pm
Two years ago, my son who scores very well on all standardized test wound up in the 50th percentile on the reading section of one of the test…my kid reads like a maniac and recalls details and gets it, is in TAG yada yada yada… any rate, I knew his score would be lower than his normal 90+percentile or score because when I picked him up from school, he told me that his bottom was sore because he had soiled his pants during the test because he didn’t want to break rules and ask to go to the bathroom during the test. He stayed in those clothes all day because he was
embarrassed. That about sums up how I feel about any mandate be it by federal, state, or local powers. I need to add one more bit of info for kicks…my son did practice CRCT worksheets after the test were done. I live and teach in North Fulton. I will not teach to any test and I don’t give a rats $&& about helping any school improve it’s scores. By the way, my students averaged 94 on the high stakes test I give in my course…I do not teach to the test.
Annoyed
June 22nd, 2011
6:27 pm
Dedicatedandtired sums up the CRCT for everyone…it tells you one tiny bit of information, how well a student recalled information on ONE day for ONE particular test, regardless of what he/she experienced that morning, the night before, what they ate, if anyone died recently, if their parent(s) won the lottery the day before…all of which have nothing to do with how well they were or were not taught. To place such high stakes on any such test is absurd.
ANGELA
June 22nd, 2011
6:48 pm
WOW, this topic has gotten a whole whole lot of attention. The bottom line to who passes the CRCT and who does not, education and its value starts at home. The schools/teachers responsiblity is to provide information and it is the student’s responsiblity to absorb that information. It has nothing to do with socio-economics or anything other than a student indulging in putting their brain to positive and effective use. We as educators by law cannot make students learn but, if we could go back to old school we would have better test scores. Because that seems to be the hottest topic in the United States education departments.
DemocracyChamp
June 22nd, 2011
6:55 pm
Aside from the obviously disturbing (and unfortunately typical) results correlated in many cases with SES, I find it more disturbing that ACROSS THE BOARD % OF STUDENTS FAILING SOCIAL STUDIES HAS GONE UP REGARDLESS OF SES. I didn’t look at every district, but I picked a few really rural, suburban, and most urban and they all share that in common. I can’t even imagine what kind of society we’re going to live in if we keep privileging reading and math without educating the whole child. They are not engaged, not prepared, and won’t be a good, socially-responsible citizen without a well-rounded education.
Dundevil
June 22nd, 2011
7:02 pm
Please notice the things in common between DCSS, APS and Clayton, Each has a dysfunctional school board. Clayton is correcting after SACS. DCSS and APS each has an African American administration. I am not familiar with Clayton. ,
ima
June 22nd, 2011
7:07 pm
Can someone tell me why there are different numbers of (as an example) Cobb 8th graders taking each different test? Surely the student numbers don’t change that much from day to day during the week the test is given. Thanks
Jerry Eads
June 22nd, 2011
7:10 pm
@Incredulous, I get to put myself out here because I no longer work for state government, but that also means I don’t have my hands on the data
. HOWEVER, if you’ll look at Maureen’s links with her piece, there are links to some look up menus that will get you what you’re after.
@teacher&mom – OH ABSOLUTELY! I never meant at all to imply that teachers have no impact. You turn kids’ lives around every day. But you’re right, the CRCT has virtually NOTHING to do with actual learning. You could help a child realize enormous progress, to just one point below the pass level, and neither you nor your student are recognized for it. She and you are simply punished with failure. Let’s be clear though: even IF we had tests that measured PROGRESS (and they’d cost easily 2-3 times what the minimum competency tests do), they would be horribly inaccurate at the individual student – and for that matter classroom – level. Your own grading and testing and observing, because you do it EVERY DAY of EVERY YEAR, is infinitely more accurate and useful than this one test per year trap we’ve been dragged into by the state’s leaders who have been naively duped or conned into believing we’re learning something worthwhile from these tests. Go back and look at the pass rates over the past however many years – you’ll notice that after the initial spurt driven by all the teaching to the test (having very little to do with actual learning), the pass rates just kinda bounce around at the same level (except for the travesty caused by the unconscionably incompetent implementation of the changed math standards (not to be confused with curriculum, by the way).
I’m ecstatic you have the luxury to still focus on your teaching rather than test prep – so many do not. Much enjoy your thinking here, by the way.
mothers concerned
June 22nd, 2011
7:35 pm
I’m sorry but my children attend Clayton County and are A students. I have 3 in college but what I see is that you have some very good teachers and you have some of the worst teachers they get away with too much stuff, they get away with non-teaching, some of them don’t care. I say move on and let the real teachers teach. Some of the things that they are wouldn’t be tolerated in other top schools they would be fired. Some don’t move from the desk unless they know that there are important people coming in or they that the principal is coming. Not all teachers are bad but they make bad for others. I wish that I could grade a teacher maybe some of them will do there job.
Oh, Robert . . .
June 22nd, 2011
7:50 pm
Congratulations, Robert! You’ve just won the prize for racist of the day!
Jerry Eads
June 22nd, 2011
8:09 pm
@mothers, yes, there are those who should be in other careers. Unfortunately, the measures we have don’t pick them out – they’re more like a coin flip. They point at anyone – fabulous or worse than worthless – randomly. AND the principals we have frequently have not the expertise or the -ah – fortitude, OR the support from the central office (usually all of the above) to pick them out. Much work to be done. A TINY bit of progress MAY be made with the “Race to the Top” funding, which may be touted as the be all to end all, which will reduce any benefit to virtually zero or even cause as much harm as NCLB. But we must hope. There are some good people in there trying.
mothers concerned
June 22nd, 2011
8:36 pm
@ Jerry I always volunteer a lot and I see a lot of things some teachers mad and some come in everyday with joy in there hearts no matter what is going on at home. Please leave problems the at home. Some can’t wait to take a cigarette smoke outside. I been on trips and the teachers are suppose to help some don’t even care where the child is. My sister is a teacher and a very good one goes out of her way to help those children. Like is said if they don’t like there jobs please leave and find something that they love ( I say that in love). I wish that i can grade the principals also because some of them don’t come out of there office enough until the big people come and want to clean up and act like there doing something. I’m sorry if the kids don’t want to learn please remove them from the room so that the other kids can learn.
Ed Johnson
June 22nd, 2011
8:54 pm
“My sense in APS and DeKalb has been that even proven principals are subjected to a lot of silly stuff and politics that take them away from their schools and their students and they get tired of it.”
–Maureen
Maureen said this? Maureen said this. Maureen said this! Bravo, Maureen!
Let’s now recognize Hall’s firing of 90 percent of APS principals early on (c. 2003) as the silly and morally bankrupt behavior it is.
Just saying
June 22nd, 2011
9:10 pm
These are percentages and in comparison more students being tested is going to give you a larger margin for era for large districts. 94% of 300 8th grade students in a whole district is 282 students passing. 68% of 6000 students 8th grade students is 4080 students passing. This shows that their are a lot of students making minimal progress but, there are a lot of students that still need help in many areas whether it be better school, teacher, or PARENTS THAT ARE INVOLVED before the last week of school when it is to late. But there are some positives. PARENTS THAT ARE INVOLVED meaning you encourage your child to read daily and do word problems and science experiments and other engaging activities at home during the summers and weekends is the answer to increasing these scores. As for my house, education starts before you go to the school building.
David Sims
June 22nd, 2011
9:24 pm
There are smart black males, Maureen. The odds are stacked against them, but every normal distribution has a high trailing end. Economic considerations, or politics, can cause the smarter black males to be funneled into some school systems disproportionately more often than into others. So whereas it might be that Gwinnett is doing a “better job” of educating black males, at least part of the story might be that Gwinnett is getting a better grade of black male to educate.
David Sims
June 22nd, 2011
9:29 pm
Robert said, “They are affluent because they are more intelligent, more motivated, and less inclined to commit crimes. They’re predominantly Caucasians and Asians and the African-Americans who managed to better themselves. Try as you will Maureen to to massage the comparisons, the outcome will always be the same.”
Excellent comment, Robert! I couldn’t have said it better myself, and I’ve had lots of practice!
Jerry Eads
June 22nd, 2011
9:52 pm
Hear ye, @mothers. Let’s hope the ‘powers that be’ find ways to lift the ship some. Seems over the past decade all they’ve been able to do is sink it lower. The present craziness catches us taking on those who consider all public educators evil and at the same time trying to find ways to support the good while figuring out how to fix the bad. The good far outweighs the bad. It DOES sound like you’ve experienced some less than well-run schools. Great principals are few and far between.
Dekalb Oldtimer
June 22nd, 2011
9:59 pm
@ David Sims
Ah, the old blackberry jam story. You remember, the best blackberry jam is only produced when you start with the best blackberries!!! All the cooks on the FoodNetwork place primary emphasis on that premise.
brad
June 22nd, 2011
10:01 pm
What percentage of the lower scoring students have drug addicts and welfare queens for mothers? Are there a higher percentage of parents that fit this profile in Atlanta and Clayton? Maureen hates to face reality.
Disgruntled Parent
June 22nd, 2011
10:10 pm
@RJ My child did attend a Georgia funded Pre-K program. She started school knowing her name, numbers etc… I did read to her everyday and we did homework everyday after school… She started as most of her peers on the “North-side” even, the same amount of “eggs in her basket ” as the others. Same parental involvement same exposure… The difference…. she lives here on the side with the “undesirables” and they live there… Even if they do have different situations at home, EVERY child should have the precious opportunity to be taught and valued as a human and not a statistic.
brad
June 22nd, 2011
10:10 pm
As a parent who pulled their child from an Atlanta high school in 2009 I can tell you the atmosphere at that school was anything but good. “Pants on the ground” was the style and I could smell marijuana coming from the bathroom. I pulled my child out the same day and started paying for private school.
brad
June 22nd, 2011
10:11 pm
I should have added that my childs grades immediately went up and so did her self esteem.
Dekalb Mom
June 22nd, 2011
10:12 pm
Its somewhat true about the have and have not! But if you go to the schools in areas that are mostly ethnic, you will see the difference in education standards. It’s like those areas get what’s left over from the teaching pool, the teachers that are not really concerned with the education of these children, Only a pay check! which makes it bad for the teachers that do care because when you talk about teachers you group them as a whole. I am usually one for unions, but in this case it just makes it harder to get rid of the BAD teachers. I am a hands on parent and I have seen the difference in education at the schools in the better areas. There should be a shared partnership between the parent, teacher, school and child to ensure a child’s education.
Regents = UGA Conspirators
June 22nd, 2011
10:15 pm
TO: UGA Faculty, Staff and Students
FROM: Rebecca Macon, Registrar
Under the newly approved University Council bylaws section on matters of particular urgency, which was passed at the April 21, 2011 University Council meeting, the Executive Committee is allowed to approve items in place of the full University Council when the matter is deemed urgent. In such cases, the full council has the chance to confirm or rescind the action at its next meeting.
The Board of Regents has approved new Bachelor of Science degrees in Engineering for the University of Georgia. However, in attempting to hire new faculty for these programs, there has been some difficulty in that the best faculty wish to serve at institutions with Ph.D. programs. UGA planned to add Ph.D.’s in these new engineering fields soon, so the process has been requested to be expedited. Because the Board of Regents requires proposals for new degree programs to be received by July 1, 2011 in order to be on the agenda for their October meeting, President Adams and Provost Morehead asked for a vote on the new Ph.D. degree, as well as a new Masters degree, using the Executive Committee’s function to approve items deemed matters of particular urgency. The Executive Committee agreed to this request. As a side note, no new resources will be needed to add these programs, as the faculty are already being hired for the B.S. programs. The new degree programs were also passed by the University Curriculum Committee via an email vote on June 9, 2011.
Regarding this Matter of Particular Urgency vote on the two proposed degrees, a proposal to offer a new major in Engineering (M.S) and a new major in Engineering (Ph.D.), the vote passed in an email vote by the Executive Committee 14-0. The results of the voting will be placed on the agenda for the first Executive Committee meeting of the new term as an information item. It will then be placed on the agenda of the first University Council meeting of the new term as a confirmation item, where the full council has the opportunity to confirm or rescind the vote taken by Executive Committee, which is in accordance with the bylaws.
The minutes of this action can be found at the link below:
https://apps.reg.uga.edu/UniversityCouncil/publicC ommitteeMeeting/showMinutes/94
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Thank you,
Rebecca Macon, Registrar
Secretary to University Council
brad
June 22nd, 2011
10:22 pm
My black daughter became a new person once I removed her from an Atlanta Public High School. Her attitude turned positive, she stopped being defiant and started to take school far more seriously. The reason? She was no longer was surrounded by marijuana at school and boys wanting to have sex and sleeping in class. She had kids talking on their cell phone in class! I saw it! One Atlanta High School boy sent her a picture of his penis on her cell phone. She never got to see that boy again and will never set foot in an Atlanta Public School again. Glad it is not my problem anymore.
MomAndMathTeacher
June 22nd, 2011
10:36 pm
@Maureen, I think your comment on Cherokee County was on track. I hope the improvements are noted by parents and local politicians. Cherokee is a well mixed district with not a lot of the wealth seen in other counties. Thank you for the recognition.
brad
June 22nd, 2011
10:43 pm
My black daughter became a new person once I removed her from an Atlanta Public High School. Her attitude turned positive, she stopped being defiant and started to take school far more seriously. The reason? She was no longer surrounded by marijuana at school and boys wanting to have sex and sleeping in class. She had kids talking on their cell phone in class! I saw it! One Atlanta High School boy sent her a picture of his penis on her cell phone. She never got to see that boy again and will never set foot in an Atlanta Public School again. Glad it is not my problem anymore.
The ANSWER: She was no longer surrounded by a culture more concerned with the newest disgusting song than getting their homework done. It was the CULTURE of “who cares” and don’t be an “OREO” that changed.
nitram
June 22nd, 2011
11:12 pm
embearassing…….
Dr. John Trotter
June 22nd, 2011
11:28 pm
@ Vince: Reporters should report the facts, not editorialize. Editorial writers write opinion pieces. If an administrator refuses to follow the State Code Section (O.C.G.A. 20-2-989.5 et seq.), then our picket reports the facts. But, when we conclude that an administrator “must go,” then we editorialize. I thought that our schools taught the difference between fact and opinion in the elementary grades, right? If not, I just gave you a journalism lesson. Ha! Good try, Vince, but you were staining a gnat and swallowed a camel. How did it taste, my friend? Ha!
David Sims
June 23rd, 2011
12:12 am
Ah, where to begin? And why bother, since half of my comments are never taken off moderation?
@ticked off teacher.
You’re right. I’ve been a racist since about 1996. I was in the National Alliance from 1998-2003. I’m no longer in that group, but I’m still a racist and a white nationalist. You don’t need to send anybody on a long and difficult paper-chase. Just ask me.
You’re right again! The pigment of one’s skin has nothing to do with one’s intelligence. But both base skin pigmentation—the degree of pigmentation that you’re born with, without enhancement by prolonged exposure to sunlight—and IQ are racial variables. Both are controlled by that fraction of the human genome that differs broadly between one race and another.
Let’s consider a parallel situation. Skin pigmentation doesn’t cause the texture of the hair, either. But as we all know, both skin pigmentation and hair texture are racially variable. People born with dark skin tend to have woolly or knappy hair. People born with fair skin tend to have relatively fine and straight hair.
Do you see how it is plausible that intelligence (and lots of other things) might show a correlation with skin color, even though the differences in skin color did not cause the differences in intelligence? I sure hope so. Because if this explanation didn’t turn the light bulb on, then there isn’t much voltage in that head of yours.
Since you can’t even seem to spell “racist” correctly, may I ask where it is you teach? Which school in the greater Atlanta area has such low standards for teachers that you managed to get a job there?
@ANGELA.
You said (to me), “Most of what I read I don’t even think you know what you were talking about.” You were referring to my claim that money won’t improve the test scores of black students in Clayton, Dekalb, or Atlanta because the bottleneck in the potential for score improvement isn’t the funding of the schools or the residents who use those schools, but rather the IQs of the students who attend them.
Do I know what I’m talking about? Only as a secondary researcher. I’m not in a position to do primary research in intelligence testing, lacking both the qualifications as a psychometrician and the resources to act as if I were one. But I’m a rather good secondary researcher. I’ve hit the books, and if I’m not all the way up to speed on the subject of racial variability in intelligence, then I’m certainly ahead of the non-specialist pack.
I know, for example, that each race has a distribution of intelligence that resembles a normal distribution to a reasonably good first approximation. According to “Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Ability,” by J. Philippe Rushton and Arthur R. Jensen (published in Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 2005, Vol. 11, No. 2, pp. 235-294), the average IQ for US-resident whites is 103 and the average IQ of US-resident blacks is 85. A study on large samples of whites and blacks carried out in 1963 by Kennedy, Van De Riet, and White found that the standard deviation in IQ for US-resident whites is 16.4 points, whereas the standard deviation for blacks is 12.4.
So very good models for the distribution of intelligence in whites and blacks, resident in the United States, is given by these normal distributions:
Whites: 103 ± 16.4
Blacks: 85 ± 12.4
Now I’ll show you how to figure out the fraction of a race has an IQ above a specified value, if you know its average IQ and its standard deviation in IQ. Here’s the equation:
f(μ) = [σ√(2π)]⁻¹ ∫(μ,∞) exp{ −[(x−x̄)/σ]²/2 } dx
Where
μ = the minimum acceptable IQ (e.g., to qualify for an intellectually demanding job)
σ = the race’s standard deviation in IQ
x̄ = the race’s average IQ
Let us say that an employer wants to hire people for a certain kind of work which requires a minimum IQ of 130 to do well, and that this employer’s business is in a demographically average part of the United States (i.e., whites outnumber blacks by about six to one). He accepts employment applications from job-seekers of all races, and he resolves to judge each applicant without any racial bias whatever.
But since the races have different distributions of IQ, the fraction of persons having IQs above 130 will be different for each race. Having just punched the buttons on my handy CASIO fx-9860gii SD calculator, I find that about one white person in 20 would be smart enough to handle the work. However, only one black in 7030 would be similarly smart.
If the employer were in an area having equal numbers of white and black residents, his determination to hire without racial bias would lead to him hiring only one black for each 350 white people he hired. However, since there are six times more whites than blacks in his area, he will have hired completely without racial bias if he hires only one black for each 2100 whites he hires.
So… now do you think that maybe I know what I’m doing?
brad
June 23rd, 2011
1:26 am
Maureen is probably a pro abortion, anti school voucher, planned parenthood loving, feminist warrior (and “good” humanist) who has thrown Jesus out because of the bad behavior of some who say they are christians when their actions show the opposite. In doing so, she unwillingly has embraced the humanistic relativism that is now bearing the fruit we see in our decaying culture and public schools. I can see her thought process in her denial of the truth as to the cause of the test scores we are now observing. God Bless.
My black daughter became a new person once I removed her from an Atlanta Public High School. Her attitude turned positive, she stopped being defiant and started to take school far more seriously (and started talking about going to college). The reason? She was no longer surrounded by marijuana at school and boys wanting to have sex and sleeping in class. She had kids talking on their cell phone in class! I saw it! One Atlanta High School boy sent her a picture of his penis on her cell phone. She never got to see that boy again.
The ANSWER as to why she changed for the better? She was no longer surrounded by a culture more concerned with the newest disgusting song than getting their homework done. It was the CULTURE of “who cares” and don’t be an “OREO” that disappeared when we removed her from that environment and put her in a christian school that showed her how wonderful God made her.
www.honeyfern.org
June 23rd, 2011
6:19 am
CRCT scores don’t give us any more insight into students than they ever have, but they certainly highlight things about parents, teachers and administrators (and blog commenters). Interesting that scores seem to go down in 6th and 8th grade, the “important” years. Could that have anything to do with the overwhelming emphasis on The Test in those grades? Tons of research on the fact that test emphasis can actually make scores go down (including one small-scale study in GA).
To the poster who mentioned the Common Core assessments that are coming (piloted by Georgia and a couple other states): those actually hold some promise, more than the CRCT. The Common Core testing is rumored to actually consist of (at least) four tasks, only one of which is a high-stakes tetsing event. The tasks will be spread across the school year and will be more like a portfolio of work than a column of numbers. I think the goal is to also measure a child against him/herself over the years, but that may be Pollyanna wishful thinking.
The CRCT is on its last legs. Hopefully Georgia will not try to cling to it.