How did high schoolers do on the integrated geometry End of Course Test?

I thought this e-mail question from a reader today was worth putting out here for consideration:

Have you heard anything, either officially or unofficially, about this year’s Integrated Geometry EOTC? I know of one group of teachers that were almost tarred and feathered because of their across the board horrendous drop in scores.

Have heard unofficially that scores across the state tanked. Would be interested in how much truth there is to this, and more importantly, the state’s take on it.

So, how did your school or child do? Any systems already dissecting what they did right or wrong?

From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog

84 comments Add your comment

metro teacher

May 21st, 2011
6:05 pm

Spring EOCTs are not in yet, so no one knows (at our school anyway). We usually get the scores the last week of school.

Panthergirl

May 21st, 2011
6:15 pm

Forsyth County received their EOCTs this past week. My son knows all of his EOCT scores. He thought the math EOCT was the easiest one and did very well on it.

GA parent/teacher

May 21st, 2011
6:46 pm

Don’t know about the EOCT’s in our county, but it looks like the math CRCT pass rate has gone up.

Mift

May 21st, 2011
7:13 pm

Many systems have just completed the EOCTs. Scores are not in.

Veteran teacher, 2

May 21st, 2011
7:22 pm

Our Math 1 EOCT scores were way up from last year. We worked hard. Most of our kids worked hard. It paid off! Many kids, especially in Accelerated Math 1, reported that the test was pretty easy.

Why is every unfounded rumor about math immediately published? “I heard that scores around the state tanked.” Who said that? Does whoever said it have credible information?

Dunwoody Mom

May 21st, 2011
7:23 pm

I thought that 2010 was the last year the Geometry EOCT was given.

Sophomore

May 21st, 2011
7:43 pm

My AIG (Accelerated Integrated Geometry) class took the Geometry EOCT in December as our final exam. Our final for this semester is a test that our teachers will create; there are no more math EOCT’s beyond Geometry. The test wasn’t too bad; I think I either scored a high B to a low A.

Math is Cool

May 21st, 2011
7:51 pm

Veteran Teacher has a great point…Maureen, could you give us something, anything, that would make that rumor sound more legit than just “math bashing” which goes on often in the education blogosphere world?

ScienceTeacher671

May 21st, 2011
8:32 pm

I’m confused. Is that Math II, Geometry, or something else?

ScienceTeacher671

May 21st, 2011
8:36 pm

Regardless, our EOCT scores aren’t back yet….

higher cut scores

May 21st, 2011
9:13 pm

the superintendent confided to me (and probably many others) that he believes the cut scores have been raised, so maybe we shouldn’t read too much positive into the results. i certainly can’t provide anything “credible” other than the county i teach in – columbia – and the superintendent – charles nagle.

Angela

May 21st, 2011
9:16 pm

This is sooooooooooo sad we teach and live for test scores.

Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta

May 21st, 2011
9:29 pm

higher cut scores:

I’ve always found Mr. Nagle to be a credible source.

Really amazed

May 21st, 2011
9:30 pm

@higher cut scores, don’t you mean cut scores have been lowered???

I teach in the middle

May 21st, 2011
9:48 pm

CRCT: to get a 2, students only needed to answer 50% of the questions correctly…in what galaxy is a 50% passing??

Well

May 21st, 2011
9:52 pm

The EOCT tests that were online are already back in our county. As a special education teacher I had to read the Math 1 and Math 2 test to some of our students. The Math 1 wasn’t too tough but in my opinion, the Math 2 was a killer.

ScienceTeacher671

May 21st, 2011
10:03 pm

higher cut scores, if you have the score reports from this year and last year you can figure out how many questions students had to get correct to pass each year.

Mike Honcho

May 21st, 2011
10:10 pm

My classes that took the Math 2 EOCT recieved similar scores as last year. We have only received the grade conversions and nothing to determine any cut scores…yet.

justin

May 21st, 2011
10:15 pm

I, too, am sick and tired of those “doomes day” people who constantly hope for everything and anything bad from our math programs. They simply discount any “good” news to either “lowered cut scores” or “increased tutoring businesses.” They pretend they are interested in data, but they are not. Their minds are already made up and they have no ears to hear (nor brains to understand). Of course, the media keep giving those guys plenty of space and jump on their bandwagons, too.

Veteran teacher, 2

May 21st, 2011
10:24 pm

See, this is one thing that REALLY bothers me. If we do ever really improve, no one will know it because every naysayer with a keyboard will holler that the cut scores were lowered. The FACT is that almost everyone that hollers that the cut scores were lowered have no idea what they are talking about. They are guessing, and a certain percentage of people take the information as fact because it is in print. …..And the AJC and similar entities facilitate the misinformation!!

Paddy O

May 22nd, 2011
12:20 am

a lot of non debating kill the messenger folks on here – seem they have a bit of thin skin, but when your SAT’s are 49 out of 50, I guess the pressure does seem intense.

Paddy O

May 22nd, 2011
12:22 am

VT 2 – you realize this is a discussion blog and the posts are not perceived as credible by the average joe, don’t you?

QE3

May 22nd, 2011
12:50 am

My child was homeschooled through 8th grade with traditional math through Algebra 2. He took the Accelerated Integrated Geometry class in one semester and made an “A”. Many other students needed tutoring. He thought the “new math” was presented in a rather chopppy and confusing manner and said the traditional methods were more effective. Check out Khan Academy. He sticks with a traditional math presentation.
The global one-world classroom……
What do teachers think about Salman Khan?
http://www.khanacademy.org/

mom12

May 22nd, 2011
3:04 am

My daughter got her EOCT for Math 1 last week and she made a 97! I was very proud of her. She has a great teacher!

Jordan Kohanim

May 22nd, 2011
7:54 am

QE3- I love Khan! I wish I could take some of the Khan Academy’s innovation to the Language Arts classroom. All I can do is mimic some of his visual lectures. Another good one are the RSAnimate links. I use those when talking about social movements in modern literature.

Old Timer Educator

May 22nd, 2011
8:15 am

Never heard of this Khan Academy, but it seems like a valuable resource. QE3, thanks for sharing. I’m looking forward to investigating it further.

concerned teacher

May 22nd, 2011
8:26 am

Do you know that on the CRCT in elementary that a child can miss 1/2 of the questions and pass the test with a scores of 800. So if there is 60 questions on the reading test, the child will pass if he answers 30 correct. Also, if a child does not pass the test…that’s even worse. They don’t know the material at all. IF your child does not make a 850 or above, I think parents should be concerned and spend some time reviewing the material during the summer so the child won’t struggle the next year.

teacher&mom

May 22nd, 2011
8:38 am

Off topic but I know a few Get Schooled regulars will appreciate this link…since we’ve asked repeatedly for someone to “folllow the money.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/22/education/22gates.html?_r=2&ref=todayspaper

northatlantateacher

May 22nd, 2011
8:41 am

We got them back last week. Ours were incredibly high. I think the cut scores must’ve been raised.

teacher&mom

May 22nd, 2011
8:51 am

So, what if the scores are high and everyone feels the cut scores have been adjusted this year…please explain to me WHY we continue to toss money down the standardized testing toilet??

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/19/977583/-Cuts-For-School-Kids,-But-More-Tax-Dollars-For-Tests

teacher&mom

May 22nd, 2011
8:54 am

*So, if the test scores* … not what if…
I apologize for the error and blame it on the lack of coffee….someone at my house failed to buy coffee at the grocery store yesterday :P

Old Timer Educator

May 22nd, 2011
9:14 am

Wondering if folks here could add a little info to their posts. When talking about results, could you specify which course? Math I (Integrated Algebra I) or Math II (Integrated Geometry) and whether the class is Accelerated vs the regular course. Our local high school received great scores in the Accelerated classes, but the general students didn’t do as well. I believe it adds to the conversation if we know what’s being compared.

Thanks,

OTE

ScienceTeacher671

May 22nd, 2011
9:30 am

@concerned teacher: Say it again! Compare Lexiles and CRCT scores – unless a child “exceeds” on the CRCT, s/he is nowhere near grade level!

An 8th grader who barely passes the CRCT has a Lexile level of about 805. This means the child is not reading at a high enough level to read and comprehend a 9th grade Physical Science textbook, most of which are written at Lexile levels above 1050.

ScienceTeacher671

May 22nd, 2011
9:31 am

Teacher & mom – great article on Gates. Thanks!

catlady

May 22nd, 2011
9:34 am

You can’t show significant improvement in test scores absent some significant kind of change: Huge change in teaching methods, huge change in students, or significant change in cut scores. Miraculous changes don’t happen without something different happening.

I hope the EOCts are better because of better preparation of students.

yes i am worried

May 22nd, 2011
9:35 am

I know that DeKalb’s Graduation Test Math pass rate dropped by 13 percent which is nearly double the state’s drop.

With the exception of a couple of niche schools, Dunwoody and Chamblee, no high school in DeKalb had a percentage passing that exceeded the state’s passing rate of 84 percent.

hssped

May 22nd, 2011
9:38 am

Our Math I and Math II scores were very good. VERY few failures. I believe, but am not sure, that the accelerated math classes take the same EOCT as the regular math classes. Does anyone know for sure? With the old math curriculum, the Euclidean and applied geometry kids took the same exam. It wasn’t fair to the applied kids. I read both Math I and Math II questions this year and both tests were very fair in my opinion.

Old Timer Educator

May 22nd, 2011
10:24 am

@hssped:
I’ve neither seen the test nor had access to it. However, I know the DOE study guide lists finding the median line as one of the content questions. On a timed test, where students are expected to spend 2 – 2.5 minutes per question, if students were asked to find the median line that is not fair. Whether using the formula or a graph, the students that I tutor generally take about ten minutes (graph) and five-seven minutes (formula) to do one of those. I don’t believe they are given the formula for median line on the test. Since you feel it was “very fair” that must mean they aren’t asked to find this line. Good to know.

Maureen Downey

May 22nd, 2011
10:54 am

@Math, I need to talk to DOE Monday and ask for results. Will put them up when I get them. (Matt, if you are reading, would love a summation on EOCT results across math this year.)
Maureen

Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta

May 22nd, 2011
12:14 pm

Will be very interested in seeing the “cut score” and passing rates for each EOCT this year.

By the way, THANKS directly to a regular “Get Schooled” blogger, to whom I must apologize for failing to recall his/her name, and indirectly to Dr. Barge’s DOE for providing me the first “cut score” info I’ve ever seen. I’d been trying for years to obtain from the previous administration’s people at DOE specific “cut score” info.

sGA

May 22nd, 2011
1:06 pm

The score summaries by county and system will be available on the GA Department of Education website as Excel spreadsheets. Past administration scores are also available for download.

concerned teacher

May 22nd, 2011
1:31 pm

I am glad people are talking about cut scores. I will say..it’s not like this information is not given to parents because it is..they just don’t know what they are looking at because most parents know nothing about lexiles. Most are only concerned about “passing the test” It’s pretty sad. I am not aware of EOCT test in high school but it’s safe to say that if the state department created it..and score it..cut scores will be created to make the state look good.

concerned teacher

May 22nd, 2011
1:33 pm

Look at the actual score reports that are given to the students. You will be able to see how many they missed and the score.

ScienceTeacher671

May 22nd, 2011
5:22 pm

Dr. Craig Spinks, supposedly the cut score information is usually vewwy vewwy seekwit.

East Cobb Parent

May 22nd, 2011
5:58 pm

I was under the impression that course names would not change until next year, at least in Cobb. I haven’t heard much about EOCT scores.
As for those students taking the CRCT – I’ve tried telling parents to pay attention to the number of questions and the number missed and not whether or not their child “meets”.
I would think the EOCT for Accel math II would be different since the course is weighted.

Teach Mom

May 22nd, 2011
6:13 pm

Whether the kids are in Honors, Advanced, Regular, or Special Ed, they take the same EOCT. There is no “accelerated” version of any state test. Makes plenty of sense right?

What's best for kids?

May 22nd, 2011
6:27 pm

In order for the GADOE to be transparent, as all republicans are wont to say they are, then it needs to publish all of its test scores, not just math. How much each question is graded, how many of them were “test” questions, and which ones the students missed as well as got correct. This needs to be published along with the cut scores and the demographics of students who did not meet, met, and exceeded.
Then, and only then, will the public be able to get a firm grasp on how Georgia is doing on Georgia’s own, home made test.
If we really want to see how Georgia is doing compared to the rest of the nation, then we need to test them using the ITBS. Then we will be able to place them appropriately in high school.
My two cents.

northatlantateacher

May 22nd, 2011
7:19 pm

I stopped putting any kind of importance on EOCTs and CRCTs a long time ago. I open each parent night by stating they are a means to an end and do not offer a predicition of future success – the natural tendency is to want those scores to mean “something”; some kind of window into a student’s intelligence or competency. They don’t.

Veteran teacher, 2

May 22nd, 2011
8:04 pm

Amen, NATLteacher.

concerned teacher

May 22nd, 2011
8:15 pm

you are right…ITBS is apples to apples…because every state makes their own test. and they are all different.