Should family income play a role in redistricting? What should matter?
As metro areas grow, school lines shift. Several districts are in the midst of redistricting, and the process is rife with emotions, recriminations and strife.
Many homeowners contend that they bought their homes because of the local schools and rebel when they’re told five years later that their fifth grader will now be leaving friends and the familiar to journey to a new school.
My mailbox is full of e-mails from parents across metro Atlanta telling me about proposed redistrictings that they feel send their children to either a less successful school or a school where the kids won’t know anyone. Some of the parents have maps to show how their small area is being carved out to attend a new school while everyone around them is staying put.
They often report that the school board members carefully drew the maps so their own kids or grandkids or constituents have the least turmoil. (Such accusations are common in DeKalb where most changes are perceived to have a political subtext.)
The overriding questions that has to be asked in redistricting is whether there is overcrowding and whether shifting lines alleviates the problem. If the answer is “yes,” then the next question is how to make the shift in a way that makes sense and disrupts the fewest neighborhoods.
I would like folks here to consider whether it should be important for school boards to preserve feeders or take into consideration preserving intact neighborhoods. I understand the issue for parents, although I would argue that neighborhood friendships matter most in elementary school when proximity often determines after-school playmates and less in high school when teens have greater mobility and can easily get to a friend’s house four miles away.
When I attended the DeKalb hearings on school closings and later on redistricting, I thought the school board was facing an impossible task as no parents wanted their children moved to a new school, even if the school was three miles away.
Someone is going to have to move in redistricting. How do school boards decide? Is there a better way?
And should socio-economics play a role? Increasingly, schools are looking for a balance of incomes among their student bodies, as too much poverty concentrated in a single school can set it on a track for failure. So, while districts no longer jerry-rig lines to balance race in schools, they can diversify schools by socio-economics. (See this blog on effort to do so in one North Carolina district.)
Take a look at this good AJC story today on the redistricting angst in Gwinnett:
Here is an excerpt:
Gwinnett Schools is redistricting to relieve overcrowding at Peachtree Ridge High, which has 3,226 students, but room for only 2,800. Hull Middle, which is 700 students over capacity, has reached an enrollment of 2,409 – more than many small colleges.
The district’s initial plan to balance enrollment sent some of Peachtree Ridge’s poorest neighborhoods, in the shadows of Gwinnett Place Mall, to Duluth schools.
“I don’t think the original split 10 years ago was done in a way that would balance the demographics,” said Mayor Nancy Harris who served as principal of Harris Elementary, a school in Duluth named after her father. “It caused Duluth High to really have to regroup.”
About half of Duluth High students qualify for free or discounted lunch compared to 32 percent of Peachtree Ridge High students. Duluth feeder schools have a Title I campus that receives federal aid, Chesney Elementary with an 81 percent poverty rate. No Peachtree Ridge feeder schools have that designation. Yet 290 of Peachtree Ridge’s Mason Elementary students are slated to be moved to Chesney, a poorer, slightly lower performing school. Mason is only 13 students over capacity, according to Gwinnett Schools.
Like most metro Atlanta school distrcts, Gwinnett does not consider socio-economics when school boundary lines are drawn to relieve overcrowding.
“We don’t sort students,” said Mary Kay Murphy, the board member who represents Duluth and parts of Peachtree Ridge.
But national experts say that socio-economics should play a role.
“It creates a burden on resources on a school when you have a greater population of poor students … than others in a community,” said Michael Zuba, a senior planner with Milone & MacBroom consultants which advise schools on redistricting. ”You want to spread it out a bit.”
The drain of wealth from Duluth has led to flight and disparities in school programs, though academically Peachtree Ridge and Duluth feeder schools meet and exceed academic expectations on standardized tests and rank among Newsweek magazine’s top 1,000 high schools. Duluth High’s average SAT score is 1556 compared to 1549 for Peachtree Ridge. Peachtree Ridge has a 92 percent graduation rate compared to the Duluth’s 88 percent.
Participation in the Duluth High band dropped from about 100 members to 60 members since the split. “The dues are $500 a student, people can’t afford it like they used to,” said band parent David Lowry.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled
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142 comments Add your comment
A Conservative Voice
April 22nd, 2011
8:47 am
Thanks Dr NO, it’s reassuring to know we can always count on you to be honest with your feelings.
ah
April 22nd, 2011
9:16 am
Back in the day the apartments on Buford Hwy were only for adult singles. Now it is mostly families and the kids are zoned for Cross Keys.
My sister has lived in the same neighborhood for 25 years and her kids graduated from Cross Keys. Once they started building 500K homes around her they got zoned for Chamblee.
But there are many positive stories at Cross Keys and its feeder schools. It’s not all doom and gloom.
Ann
April 22nd, 2011
10:36 am
The problem with the current Fulton County redistricting in Milton/Roswell/Alpharetta is that the school system did not engage or receive input from the city leaders or communities “early” in the process. Input was requested only after maps were drawn. All of the three maps being considered involve many kids going to a school that is not in their city of residence. It is not an issue of race or income, but Milton families want to go to a school in the city of Milton, Roswell families in the city of Roswell, and so on with Johns Creek or Alpharetta. It is about community identity.
With the new plan, many Roswell families will now go to a Milton school. Milton residents will go to an Alpharetta school. Alpharetta residents will go to a Johns Creek school. The plans are a mess and a hodgepodge mixture of cities.
The biggest overcrowding problem was in Roswell. So, logic would tell you to build a new school in “Roswell”, right? So, where did they pick the site for the new school? Milton, and since there are not enough kids in Milton to fill the new school, they have to shift Roswell kids to be in the Milton zone. Why didn’t they just expand the current Roswell High School or build the new school there?
What about this?
April 22nd, 2011
11:08 am
Ann,
Some school systems do not use common sense when selecting school sites it is done in anticipating population shifts instead of current populations. The belief is that families will move to be in the “new school” district.
Let’s be real, race and socio-economic class are taken into consideration when these district lines are drawn. Stereotypes are abound and no one wants their kids to go to school with the “black students” but use code words such as “single parent homes”, “apartment dwellers”, “renters”, or “across this intersection”. On the flip side the belief that “asian students” are better is also a farce. Many of the Asian students go to a secondary school after their regular school day or spend all day in a Saturday school. Education has a greater emphasis but if you look at the drop out rates in college of many of these students who have been burned out in high school, you have to ask the question; is it worth it? Finally, the arrogance of some folk to believe that white students are inherently “good” students is a joke. Think about the majority of the druggies at these suburban schools, the lazy misfits, and the students who fell entitled without putting in any hard work; sound familiar.
I have never witnesses so much subtle racism until I moved to the metro Atlanta area. (I moved here from the Carolinas) Everyone “pretends” it is not a problem but behind closed doors they stereotypes about races, cultures, and sexuality are ridiculous. I rather that people dealt with their feelings out in the open in an honest fashion.
APS - Educational Disparity
April 22nd, 2011
12:23 pm
@What About This. Thank you for saying it like it is. I’ll add one more piece. If you see someone driving a nice car plastered with stickers representing democrats and/or social justice (gay rights, women’s rights), you’d think what an open-minded, positive social change agent is behind the wheel.
My intown friends who live with these drivers say that it is all for show. These are the first parents who volunteer for their PTAs so they can keep all of the money for the “haves” in their schools. They also are the ones who ask for the best teachers and ask for the classes to be stacked with their peers’ childrens. Their kids don’t associate with the “other” children outside of the regular classroom day. These parents are cutthroat, unkind and dark-in-the-heart while white-on-the-surface.
They’ve worked hard over the years with the help of Dr. Hall and any ABE members (former and present) who rubber-stamp to “index” neighborhood schools with district lines. They’ll work just as hard to make sure that their carefully considered lines stay in place even if it means that the system and children will suffer educational.
My friend wonders if their bumper-sticker cause du jours pay them for space on their vehicles since they sure don’t believe or practice what they display.
Ann
April 22nd, 2011
12:47 pm
Roswell has a mix of economic and racial groups, including Caucasian, African American and a large Hispanic population, among other ethincities. The people of Roswell who want Roswell kids to continue to go to high schools in Roswell are not trying to escape racial diversity, they are trying to keep it, so that the mix includes all of these groups, as it does now in the community. This redistricting plan of Fulton County Schools will reduce the diversity currently in Roswell schools.
Let's be real
April 22nd, 2011
1:11 pm
Looking at the past redistricting in North Fulton which gave the city of Johns Creek 3 high schools in a 2-3 mile radius and you can see how the “racial politics” backfired. Basically, Northview became a more heavily Asian school, Chattahoochee ended up with the highest percentage of Black students, and Johns Creek High had a very high majority White population percentage compared to the the other two. Chattahoochee, the oldest school, would be wrongly assummed as the school no one wanted their kids to go to, however, Chattahoochee continues to thrive academically and btw, won the state championship in football. The community loves Chattahoochee, ironically the kids who were shipped from Northview actually like it there. Northview maintained their high academic standards due to the over zealous and competitive nature of the Asian community to get their kids into Ivy League schools, as if there are no other universities available. To put it nicely, Johns Creek has not lived up to the academic standards many had hoped for by being the new and “exclusive” school in the area. What they found is by having a limited Asian population, there test schools did not look so good compared to Northview (surprise). Now fast forward 3 years later and guess what, the neighborhoods that left Northview to attend Johns Creek are “all of sudden” redistricted back to Northview. (I wonder why).
These games are all about appearance and parents to say their kids go to “this school or that school”, but how much is their child actually contributing to the excellence in the school versus just living off the name and the hard work of other students?
AlreadySheared
April 22nd, 2011
1:34 pm
@APS – Educational Disparity –
Your text shows you are confused about who works for whom:
“It’s time for APS to rebalance the playing field so that more children can make it down the field to score a touchdown in college! Share the resources (funding, school programs, great teachers and leaders and PARENTS). If any APS parents balk at this, then they know that they have it better than their neighborhood school next door.”
When I type “Parents” below, I’m referring to the PARENT resources who constitute the majority of parents of students at Morris Brandon, Mary Lin, Morningside, etc. that you are eager to “share” with other schools.
Parents make the decision to marry first, then start a family so that their children will be raised by both a mother and a father.
Parents raise their children in a safe, healthy environment.
Parents love their children enough to teach them respect, limits, and right from wrong.
Parents send their children to school ready to learn, and make sure they study and do homework after school.
Parents raise money for their school’s PTA, and they volunteer in their children’s schools.
When their children misbehave at school, Parents work together in partnership with their children’s teachers to solve the problem and put them back on the right path. They don’t say “WELL! She NEVER acts like that HOME!
Teachers will line up to combine the opportunity to work with the children of these Parents with APS inner-city-school combat pay, so the above schools and their ilk will have their pick of good teachers year after year.
We all know all this, but here is where you’re confused. Parents DO NOT work for APS. APS works for Parents. Parents work their you-know-whats off to do the best they can for their kids. They are not saints who will gladly subject their kids to classrooms half-filled with other children who lazy, disrepectful, and out of control because said children are being raised by folks who can’t even say “No” to videogames on a school night.
You may covet the above PARENT resources, but be sure they will not put up with their kids being abused for some “greater good”.
Trying to be objective
April 22nd, 2011
2:02 pm
@Megan, were you at the meeting Wednesay?
@Another Duluth Cluster Mom – a no vote was my hope also but we were shocked to find that our neighborhood was moved BACK in to the PR cluster at the 11th hour. Selfishly, I am relieved but only because my son can now finish our his last four years in GCPS with the students he’s known since kindergarten. But I am not blind or deaf. I know that very little was fixed and the gerrymandering continues. Any objective person can look at the map and see the isolated pockets everywhere, oddly districted… my question is…who lives in these areas? My neighborhood in the Ridge cluster actually maintains the continuity of the cluster using a standard dividing line – a road.
Let's be real
April 22nd, 2011
2:40 pm
Any objective person can look at the map and see the isolated pockets everywhere, oddly districted… my question is…who lives in these areas?
_____
They majority of these areas have mult-dwelling units, i.e. apartments. This reminds me around 10 years ago I was with a group of kids and one asked the question, “who lives in a townhouse?”
…and we wonder why such a fuss is being made about this process.
William Casey
April 22nd, 2011
3:00 pm
@ Lets Be Real: good points but it DOES matter who you go to school with.
Jennifer
April 22nd, 2011
3:11 pm
What really matters is who the school leaders are, who the teachers are, what culture is established, what resources are provided to support the teachers and students. In the GCPS case, the questions remain as to what resources will be provided. The Title I elementary school in Duluth is outperforming Mason on many levels. The issue is that the other schools will not be getting those Title I resources — but they will be getting extra students. Meanwhile Norcross High School, just a few miles away can sit pretty with their Title I $$, championship teams, IB program for the privileged, and big old pot of foundation money. Really very shameful.
Let's be real
April 22nd, 2011
3:43 pm
@ William, yes it does matter who you go to school with, what social circles you function in, etc. etc. My issue is when the members of the school board try to say with a straight face that socio-economic factors are not used when drawing district lines, that is a joke. I have heard parents boast how “our school district does not have any apartment complexes”. That is why schools can be in the same district but have totally different offerings.
@Jennifer, you are so correct, That is why I laughed when Norcross High was in danger of not making AYP because of failure of one of their sub-groups. Anyone who knows Gwinnett knows Norcross is one of the better schools in the area. APS gets so much extra federal money per student and it is an example of how more money does not equal greater academic achievement. I worked in APS when Dr. Hall first arrived but left soon thereafter. That was over 10 years ago, I will say this, the family structures and what many of the kids were exposed to made it difficult to teach once they entered into the classroom. Hence why you have seen the end of M-to-M in Fulton county and an enclave of school in APS where parents fight to get their children in.
I remember being asked why APS was building so many elementary schools back then when the trends were showing people moving out of the city. It was easy to see, the regentrification process had just begun, before all the projects were demolished, and the “powers that be” knew they were going to need schools to attract the new young white couples who would move (and have moved) into the city.
Ad Nausem
April 22nd, 2011
5:15 pm
“Obviously the Peachtree Ridge parents wanted all the minorities out of their school and GCPS gave it to them. GCPS is being run by 5 bigots who hate children any color than white.”
Megan, you are dumb and blind! GCPS caters to everyone BUT whites. They move heaven and earth to entice every other race and culture to attend their “world class” school system. The very people they tend to ignore are white!
APS Parent #2
April 22nd, 2011
5:26 pm
@ Already Sheared. It is you who are confused. APS works for the community that includes taxpayers, voters, citizens who are not of voting age, students and parents.
You seem to feel that parents are entitled to dictate to APS what APS does with community money. APS does not receive and spend money by neighborhoods. It receives and spends money in one system-wide budget. Accordingly, APS is charged with ensuring that it is a good steward in spending that money to benefit the public educational needs of all of the APS-zoned students. No one neighborhood gets punished or gets preferences for this.
For any parents who are uncomfortable having decisions made about their child’s educational needs (such as school zone, teacher, school leader), then public schools isn’t a good fit. For parents who need to control which school their child goes to, who the teachers and students are, and other such things, then private school is a much better choice for that kind of need. Choice – there is always a choice.
But public education belongs to the collective community – not just the parents.
AlreadySheared
April 22nd, 2011
6:06 pm
@APS Parent #2
Public schools exist to teach children, who are, well, children. The people who represent the interests of those children are in fact their parents. APS acts as a steward of the public interest in educating those children, and they are far from the first autocrats to confuse “stewardship” with “ownership”.
As for your statement that
“For any parents who are uncomfortable having decisions made about their child’s educational needs (such as school zone, teacher, school leader), then public schools isn’t a good fit.”,
1) the verb you want is “aren’t”, and
2) somewhere out there there is a once upon a time principal at Morningside Elementary who lasted less than a year and might sort of disagree with you
APS Parent #2
April 22nd, 2011
6:56 pm
@Already Sheared. If your focus is on the parents and the children, would you please justify why some neighborhoods get better resources than others?
By resource, I mean better IB programs, more music, art or other enrichment programs and better textbooks and lab supplies and other such things funded by the APS and not your PTAs.
Not sure what your last reference is about because APS not individual school principals are charged with allocating system resources. However, your last comment sounds threatening and menancing, so if that principal decided to leave your school, I can see why. Nasty, selfish and erudite parents can ruin any school and school system.
Limelight
April 22nd, 2011
7:21 pm
Post worth sharing here from Jay’s op ed column is quoted below:
Ex APS Employee
April 22nd, 2011
9:46 am
What is truly amazing is how Beverly Hall has just slipped out of the guilty limelight and all of the focus is now on the board of education for not supervising all of her criminal activity. How is it that she is still around trying to clean up as much of her dirty work before she officially leaves behind piles and piles of mess.
She did this same exact thing in New Jersey and I hope she gets criminal charges when it is all said and done so no other school district has to sink to the lowest common denominator due to her criminal mode of operation with all of her cohorts. She is truly a successful well paid white collar criminal and she needs to be stopped dead in her tracks.
Anyone who has done what she has done to the Atlanta Public Schools and has the ability to show up at televised board meetings and operate with her business as usual presentation and with no remorse is scary.
Top School
April 22nd, 2011
8:06 pm
The reason HALL can conduct business as usual in APS…is because the WHITE BUCKHEAD BUSINESS COMMUNITY is keeping her mouth shut concerning all the corrupt activity they have manipulated throughout her tenure as superintendent…
Hall scratched their backs when the illusion of EXCELLENCE in APS was headline news…and the payback for HALL… NOW…for the cover-up…is to keep her comfortable until she gets out the door…and without criminal charges.
This is how the BUCKHEAD good ole boys operate. They love having some black folk to prop up for their unethical business dealings.
http://www.TopPublicSchoolCorruptionAtlanta.com
AlreadySheared
April 22nd, 2011
8:18 pm
@APS Parent #2
Stop it! You’re killing me!
“Nasty, selfish and erudite parents can ruin any school and school system.”
erudite — adj having or showing extensive scholarship; learned
Yes, I can see why you wouldn’t want people like THAT involved in a school.
The principal in question was foisted on MES by APS, claimed a doctorate which she had not earned, and was subsequently run off by the parents. It’s not a threat, it’s what happened.
amazed
April 22nd, 2011
9:13 pm
@APS and @AP disparity
If you look at the schools in North Atlanta and Dekalb, they sure aren’t getting more resources from the school district.. If anything, they are getting the bottom of the barrel. Its the efforts of the parents that are making them better schools.
Maybe you can argue because of the economic advantages of those kids those schools should get less, but to say APS and Dekalb are moving resources to those schools to make them successful totally flies in the face of reality. When I moved here a few years ago, I was surprised that the “better” schools (Morris Brandon, Morningside, etc.) looked like dumps.
Habersham County mom
April 22nd, 2011
10:50 pm
The best part about living in a county with only ONE Highschool……..it’s the only one
Said it best ...
April 23rd, 2011
3:04 am
“GCPS caters to everyone BUT whites. They move heaven and earth to entice every other race and culture to attend their “world class” school system. The very people they tend to ignore are white”
Gwinnett’s boom and now bust are making the problem even worse. The bust is now attracting people that can afford Gwinnett, but in the long lun these families are not the taxpayer base they should be attracting. Majority minority will eventually turn GCPS into APS or Dekalb. Just watch and see …
Jennifer
April 23rd, 2011
1:18 pm
Habersham – you are right. I think that the only solution is for Duluth to take care of its own. Gwinnett County Public Schools certainly isn’t. If they think that students in high poverty schools (all students attending) are better off – then they have not met the average student who attends those schools. They sit on their dais and recognize and give awards to the top 10% of the school population. Time for them to get down off that pedestal and see how adequately prepared the other 90% are for attendance at top four year universities. The only reason they won’t look at socioeconomic indicators when assigning students for balance is because it is their intention to keep students separated. Remember – they are drawing the lines, no one else. They know it is not in the best interest of students to create poverty schools, especially unfunded ones, which is what is happening in Duluth. Don’t let anyone fool you.
MorningMom
April 23rd, 2011
1:18 pm
The Morningside principal made a choice to resign. The rumors that the PTA had gotten her fired were untrue because the PTA co-president said so at the time. The only blame in that situation is on APS for picking the wrong principal for our children.
Since I’m feeling generous, I’ll share a tip with parents on the southside. APS, Dr. Hall and her team (which includes the business community) fear bad press.
Consider how to craft or “create” your issue in the most unflattering light to APS and then threaten to call in the press. If APS doesn’t take you seriously, then call in the press. It’s just like training a dog, they’ll learn the lesson sooner or later to take you seriously. Dr. Hall, Dr. Augustine and Sharon Pitts know who we are in my community and that is why we can successfully navigate the system for our children.
It’s also nice to have a PTA stocked with stay-at-home-moms who hold law degrees (many of which were obtained in top tier schools). Our mom legal eagles are likely more qualified and experienced than the legal teams in many small Atlanta law firms. We don’t have to hire lawyers because they’re already on our team of parents.
If you don’t like what you receive on the southside, then you can move if you can pay the rent or taxes. My friends are out at Grady tracking tags, so don’t think about coming in-zone through illegal means. You’ll find a one-way ticket back south of I-20.
ELmom
April 23rd, 2011
1:53 pm
@Lake Claire to Toomer Supporter For the record you are miss informed. Drew kids do not get an automatic pass to Grady. Many of the children just happen to live in the Grady district. The understanding that you speak of is a PARTNERSHIP that the principal and board members of Drew have established with Grady and other schools to ensure the success of Drew students as they continue through High School. Drew’s teachers are lucky enough to have access to great professional development tools which the principal of Drew has graciously extended to the teachers of the schools where former Drew students attend as well as to the teachers in the local school districts where Drew students live and would be zoned for if their parents had not chosen Drew. The principal and board of Drew have worked VERY hard over the past few years to create a true partnership with APS that everyone has benefited from. Pleas do not continue to perpetuate rumors that are not factual.
ELmom
April 23rd, 2011
1:58 pm
Oh, and for the record I am zoned for Grady and unless things change there is no way I am sending there nor would I send him to any other APS high school.
(Also in realize that I typed “miss informed” when I meant to say “misinformed”).
Old 4th Ward
April 23rd, 2011
2:40 pm
My neighborhood is located north of I-20 and is blocks from Grady High School and Inman Middle School. Our elected board representative is Cecily Harsch-Kinnane. Our children at one time populated Hill and Hope Elementary and attended Walden Middle. My neighborhood is in the process of “gentrification” – subsidized housing is being torn down by blocks and low income families being forced to leave their homes to make way for progress.
APS wanted to rezone the neighboring neighborhood into our schools to alleviate overcrowding at Morningside. Those parents refused, so APS built them a new school and closed Hill. It had previously closed Walden. Now, MES, SPARK and Lin are overcrowded as are Inman and Lin. The other elementary and middle schools in the SRT are severely under-enrolled.
Here’s a redistricting option for SRT3. Since O4W doesn’t have as many children and we live close to Grady & Inman, rezone O4W (Hill/Hope) to Inman and Grady; move Lin out of Inman to Coan-Jackson feeder. This proposal would serve to reduce overcrowding at Lin, Inman and Grady; fill empty seats at Coan and Jackson.
In addition to solving crowding issues, it would save the taxpayers of Atlanta a lot of money because SRT3 has enough capacity using existing facilities. Redistricting like this would also increase diversity (economic and racial) and share the great parent resources pointed out above.
PS – The argument that “we bought our houses for the school” won’t fly with O4W because APS didn’t buy that argument when we made it to stay at Hill and Walden. They shuttered our doors without a thought, so that argument should bear no weight this cycle.
Old 4th Ward
April 23rd, 2011
2:45 pm
PS – I’ll note that my redistricting plan will fail because my elected board representative, Cecily Harsch-Kinnane, has friends who live in Inman Park. While another board member, Brenda Muhammad, represents that neighborhood, Harsch-Kiannane panders to them over her own voters. As long as CHK carries out the mission of Dr. Hall and APS, then expect that CHK will throw her weight over to Inman Park.
Sorry, MES parents whose children will attend overcrowded schools from K through graduation. You continue to elect her even though she does not look after your children’s best interests. Just wait until you are all fighting in high school to get into Advanced Placement classes and can’t get them for your child because of the overcrowding. Feel good about supporting a board member whose vision should have seen the overcrowding coming like the board member at North Atlanta and addressed it in time.
ELmom
April 23rd, 2011
6:47 pm
@Old 4th Ward. You hit the nail on the head on all accounts.
Top School
April 23rd, 2011
8:43 pm
As I’ve stated for the last 10 years on this blog…
It is all about NORTH and SOUTH ATLANTA…
and it is all about RACE…
http://www.TopPublicSchoolCorruptionAtlanta.com
Toomer Parent
April 23rd, 2011
8:59 pm
Jumping in to the discussion a little late, I have to clear up some misconceptions about Toomer. Contrary to previous posts, the PTA is active and organized, with a grass-roots effort in the Kirkwood neighborhood to support the school. We were pleasantly surprised by the forward-thinking principal, small classes, and daily Chinese instruction. Yes, the school looks like a bomb shelter on the outside, but the inside is modern and spacious — not to mention the outdoor amenities like the soccer field and playground. There is more momentum there to turn things around, especially in the last two years, than one would guess by just driving by the building.
North Fulton Resident
April 23rd, 2011
10:23 pm
@ Ann – the reason the city of Roswell and Milton were not involved in the process is because the schools are obviously not run by the county. The City of Milton would have never been able to build the “Taj Mah-hilton” (a/k/a the new Milton HS) because it is a new city….so why would they have any input.
Milton just became a city three years ago…..plus the school was named after Milton County from the 1920’s not because the city of Milton. They could have called in Mayberry High School, it doesn’t matter.
PLEASE don’t tell me Roswell HS wants to keep it’s “diversity”…..that is hogwash. My kids went to Roswell North for two years…….then we moved to Alpharetta, which became Milton, and do you know why we moved? Because Roswell North had a 33% proverty rate and half of my son’s class left for 2 hours a day to a seperate classroom because they could not speak English!!!……And that is the truth, and everyone that goes to that school will tell you the same thing. Do you ever wonder why there have been two “Private” schools built within the last ten years “literally” next door to each other and right down the road from Roswell High School and Roswell North Elementary? Because people got sick of the “diversity” in the public schools in the “core” of Roswell.
Also, people say add on to Roswell HS, really? How does that halt population growth in North Fulton? If you want everyone in Roswell to go to Roswell HS because of the ” sense of community”, then go tear down Cetennial and send those students back to Roswell HS. That should also help you with your goals of being a “diverse” school.
Also, Roswell has no land to build a new high school because it is border on the Cobb County line and the Cherokee County line in some areas, basically the “core” of Roswell is trapped from a “land” perspective and there is nowhere else to build, so the county had no option but to head “north” with it’s expansion plans.
The people who have lived in the “core” of Roswell (west of 400 and north of the Chattaochee River (Dunwoody area) a majority of thier life will tell Roswell HS has had it easy with high school redistricting (they are lying if they don’t) considering the population growth in North Fulton over the last 25 years. The only time they have had to redistrict is with the addition Centennial HS, which is actually closer to Gwinnett County then it is to Roswell HS.
Quite frankly Roswell residents (west of 400) need to pipe it down, your the last one’s that are going to be heard on this matter. You’ve had it easy for a long time, it’s your turn to make some adjustments for once.
Ann
April 24th, 2011
3:23 pm
@ North Fulton Resident – I don’t understand what you mean by this sentence ” the reason the city of Roswell and Milton were not involved in the process is because the schools are obviously not run by the county”. Maybe you meant to say “city” rather than “county”. You say that Roswell has no land to build. There are lots of properties, including shopping centers and other land, that is currently vacant within Roswell. It is just not true to say there is no land. In fact, you refer to two private schools recently built near Roswell High and Roswell North. How did those two private schools get built then if there was no land available, as you state? Was it magic? No. There is plenty of property available. Fulton County Schools already owns undeveloped property in Roswell. Your comment at the end referring to it being Roswell’s turn to make adjustments. The decision to place a school should be based on many common sense reasons, not just “whose turn it is to move”. Why wouldn’t cities be included in the early discussions and plans of where to build? The more people are included, earlier on, the better. The current meeting structure only gives the impression of input, after the fact of most decisions, and only allows minor tweaks. The fact that cities are left out of the process makes no sense to me and plenty of other citizens, regardless of what city or county you are referring to.
When I refer to wanting diversity at Roswell schools, that means a healthy mix of caucasian, Hispanic, African American, Asian and others. What this plan does is simply remove a big swath of the upper class, caucasian population from Roswell HIgh School. That does not increase diversity, in my opinion. It increases segregation of North Fulton residents along racial lines, which is apparently why you moved further north.
Old 4th Ward
April 24th, 2011
4:37 pm
@Toomer. This is 2011. I’d sure hope that the “educated” parents lving in our SRT3 would head the well-quoted adages: “Don’t judge a book by its cover” or “don’t judge a man by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character.” [quotes may not be exact but they are close enough]
Toomer is an excellent school and only needs more students to sing in Chinese to carry that message beyond your neighborhood. Too bad the Lin parents who live in the middle of O4W, Kirkwood, Cabbagetown and our other more electic intown neighborhoods don’t live up to their self-proclaimed billing as easy-going, accepting, enlightened liberals.
The way they are acting, one would think that parents from Ansley Mall were being asked to be rezoned to Toomer. Really? If you live on the fringes of Lin, then your taxes reflect that you live on a line subject to be moved and we are your neighbors even if you won’t let your children attend school with ours.
Ann
April 24th, 2011
6:00 pm
We wouldn’t have nearly as many redistricting issues if we hadn’t shifted to “mega-schools” serving 3000 to 4000 students, with people having to travel long distances to school. High schools were not this large 15-20 years ago, and I think we were much better off when we had smaller schools, for many reasons.
Ros Dalton
April 24th, 2011
6:30 pm
@Ann I’ve heard the line about building out Roswell HS or building a new school in Roswell a lot lately, and I have to tell you it would’ve sounded a lot better three or four years ago when Fulton Co. announced their plans to build at Bethany and subsequently the need for redistricting. It’s simply too late for a change of site to happen. At this point you either work within the process or your voice falls on deaf ears.
I’m curious to see what the draft submitted to the board looks like at this point, as there has been a very vocal backlash in Milton and in Roswell to the current, modified C, plan but it isn’t yet clear to me how much it’s rabble rousing emails (largely bigoted, biased, and frankly BS) and how much it’s a genuine movement supported by wealth and power.
Ann
April 24th, 2011
10:39 pm
@ Ros Dalton – When they announced their plans to build at Bethany, the assumption would have been that the site was meant to serve the growing population in that region, and that there would be plenty of kids in that area warranting the need for a new school without having to move so many other kids from several other schools. I would not have thought a high school that far away would necessarily impact Roswell. How would you know the emails are largely bigoted and biased? Do you have access to these emails to make that conclusion? And, why would you assume that wealth and power would be supporting any movement. I thought those folks primarily inhabited the private school arena. Why would they care about what happens to the public high school boundaries?
Ann
April 25th, 2011
11:11 am
Geography is supposed to be the primary factor in Fulton County’s redistricting, as stated in their policy structure. If they had followed their own policy in their plans, there would be much less frustration. Instead, all 3 plans proposed had kids who live within walking distance of a school going to a different school much farther away. It is common sense that you should be able to go to the school that you live closest to. While there will be close choices at the borders, say when one school is 4 miles away and the other 5. But, it should not be lopsided divisions. If one school is within walking distance, less than one mile away and the other 8 miles, and you are assigned to the school that is farther away, how does that make sense? Also, one of the 3 plans offered had the new school Bethany Bend overcrowded by the 3rd year. How does that solve anything? Planning needs to be longer range than that, so that everyone is not redistricted every 3 years.
Ros Dalton
April 25th, 2011
11:30 pm
I think everyone in Fulton Co. has gotten at least one or two “Roswell Residents for Responsible Redistricting” emails by now, and yes, the majority of them I’ve seen strike me as bigoted. I think the wealthy/powerful are very well aware of the connection between public school perception and property values. If you create districts of a certain type you also create an increase in property value (Or, in the current situation at least reduce the decline). The same goes for creating, for example, a very good basketball team in a certain area by the use of tactics that have been called into question.
The plans have confounded me as well, but if you accept their rationale that you ‘fill from the borders’ the shift to make room for Bethany has to go clockwise or counter-clockwise, fundamentally, and the current modified Plan C has the least impact (In terms of total numbers) but unfortunately for you shifts in your direction. Somebody had to take the hit…
Ann
April 26th, 2011
1:12 am
@ Ros
Ann
April 26th, 2011
1:24 am
@ Ros – I haven’t received any of the direct emails that you refer to. Perhaps it just goes to people on certain types of email lists. I have seen local newspaper articles quoting three or four people. I am not particularly worried about my neighborhood’s property values, but I do understand that it is a concern of some, since values have already taken a hit in the economy. My neighborhood is an old, established, very modest one, close to historic Roswell and I don’t expect our values to fluctuate much due to this situation. We did not pick the neighborhood because of the schools. And, I have never understood why people pick houses based on school test scores, which, for me, don’t tell me much about the quality of a school. I would just like to see a little more “out of the box”, creative thinking in these school plans. I think, in the very near future, overcrowded schools will no longer be dealt with by building brick and mortar mega complexes. For now, though, there’s a lot of money to change hands and contracts to grease with this type of solution.