Good vs. bad teachers: Who decides and how?
Michelle Rhee criticized last-in-first-out approaches to teacher layoffs while speaking to the Legislature in February. (AJC Photo)
I am talking to Michelle Rhee later today about the role her new organization StudentsFirst played in the passage of what she calls the “Teacher Lifo” bill.
While “Lifo” refers to the Last In-First Out policy of teacher layoffs, I always thing of something else when I hear the acronym.
I think it sounds like the Teacher Lipo bill, meaning liposuction.
And some teachers might argue that the bill passed yesterday by the Georgia House does make a large sucking sound. After a quick review by the Senate, Senate Bill 184 goes to Gov. Nathan Deal, who is expected to sign it with great delight.
In essence, SB 184 requires local school systems to use teacher performance as the primary factor when deciding layoffs. Supporters argue that the policy change will give job security to the best educators and give mediocre teachers reason to improve. Seniority is no longer a consideration in who gets the boot in a budget crunch.
Rhee and her group have made the elimination of Lifo a major thrust and she was here earlier in the year to meet with legislators and the governor about it. She is due back in Atlanta Thursday evening for a Spelman College panel at 6:30 at the Sisters Chapel.
This morning I received a note from a Georgia teacher that raises good questions about this bill and others like it around the country. Here is the teacher’s note:
Ms. Downey, As an educator for a number of years, I am intrigued by the current discussion about “good vs. bad” teachers. I think that the biggest problem is there is not a standard to be compared to. How do you judge good or bad? What is an educated child? I’ve run into students that I’ve taught who hold jobs, have families, pay taxes and are good members of the community. I have former students in jail. I have former students thank me for what I did while they were in my class. I have students who are indifferent to me and I have students who don’t care for me even years after they were in my class. How am I to decide if I’m doing a good job?
I think it is a simple question with complicated answers. How should we decide?
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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136 comments Add your comment
Ima Teacher
April 12th, 2011
4:55 pm
Well, Socrates…here are a few questions for you (the Socratic method : )– How would you judge if a P.E. teacher, a music teacher, or a media specialist are “good” teachers? They don’t have test scores to be judged by. Are we only going to judge the classroom teachers that actually teach the standards? What about the teachers who are teaching in inner city or very poor areas and don’t have all of the advantages (materials, money, students who drive BMWs to school, etc.) of teachers who teach in primarily white, upper middle class schools? If the test scores in downtown Atlanta aren’t as high as the scores in Dunwoody, should we just fire all of those teachers in the inner city school and assume that they are all terrible teachers?
And who gets to judge? My principal, who couldn’t write a decent sentence if her life depended on it (a one-page memo of hers had 13 errors in it one time!!!)? And hint, hint…most of them are in the same boat. Most administrators become administrators because they can’t hack it in the classroom or they got tired of teaching P.E. in the hot sun. Are they to be our judges??? If we are going to judge all teachers equally, then we will need to ensure that all classes are created equally, too. Each teacher should have the same number of Gifted students, English Language Learners, Special Ed. students, and the same number of ADD/ADHA children. But we all know that teachers who are not “favorites” of the principal usually get stuck with a lot of ELLs, while the favored ones get one or two in their class. This brings up another question…all of the above students usually get pulled out of the classroom teacher’s room for special services (ESOL, Sp. Ed., Gifted, Speech, EIP, OT), so that the classroom teacher hardly sees them at all during the day. Yet that teacher is to be judged a “bad” teacher if their students don’t pass one stupid test? What are we to do about students whose parents aren’t home to supervise them at night because they are working? Or they don’t speak English? These students have no one to help them with homework or see to it that they get enough sleep at night so their brain will work the next day. Is that the teacher’s fault, too?
Oh, and I’m assuming that the people you work with are ADULTS! Big difference than trying to teach 8-18 year olds. That’s why teachers should be treated differently. Teachers are held accountable for their work. We are evaulated 1-3 times every year and have to take 20 hours of professional development each and every year, and have our certificates renewed every 5 years. Doctors and lawyers don’t have to do that. And I’m betting you don’t either.
Leave teachers ALONE and let us TEACH!!!! If we didn’t have to spend so much of our time teaching the “standards” so students can take ONE irrelevant test (which is culturally biased and not always based on the GPS, BTW), doing endless paperwork, hours of computer work, and teaching “test-taking strategies,” our students might actually ENJOY school again. Then they would LEARN everything they need and WANT to learn…just like we did.
You can’t “legislate” morality, and you can’t “legislate” good teaching either. Why don’t we put our money where our mouth is Georgia legislators? Pay teachers a decent salary and give our schools (ALL of our schools) the money they need to purchase textbooks and the materials we need to effectively teach the special students of today. And don’t think we are stupid…teachers KNOW that this bit of triffling legislation is just another way to run out the veteran teachers so the state can save some money and hire two “newbies” for the price of one experienced teacher. What is going to happen in about 5-10 years when all of the Baby Boomer teachers have retired and all of the young teachers have figured out what a JOKE education has become?
John Galt
April 12th, 2011
5:13 pm
Ima Teacher-
It finally came down to more money in paragraph 5, didn’t it? I have siblings and children who are public school educators, so I am not without sympathy, but WHY should you be “left alone” and paid? If you can support that concept, let me know, because I would like to ask my CEO to “leave me alone” if that is some sort of right.
Don’t look now but there is a lot of whining in that post of yours.
Dr. Trotter-
Where did you obtain the arrogance to entitle you to insult and name-call those who are not as wise as you perceive yourself to be?
Jordan Kohanim
April 12th, 2011
5:38 pm
I would LOVE to enter this debate, but until I get my contract…I’ll keep quiet.
My views about how to gauge teachers are pretty well expressed in this video I did as a response to Waiting for Superman:
http://youtu.be/RSE7t2CGCOo
jm
April 12th, 2011
5:40 pm
This is silly. Principals know very well. And testing score direction also helps.
catlady
April 12th, 2011
5:51 pm
Ima–in our school, only gifted gets pulled out! (Funny about that!) THEIR needs can’t be met when with the “common” kids, but the MID, BD, ESOL, etc CAN have their needs met in a class of 32 different levels?!
Jordan–good move!
Henry County Teacher
April 12th, 2011
6:01 pm
How do you phase out bad admins? Especially those that have zero consequences for bullys?
long time educator
April 12th, 2011
8:22 pm
Does anyone else out there realize that the Class Keys and judging on the end product, test scores, are diametrically opposed? If I am to be judged on the end result, then leave me alone to make the decisions about how I get there. (Obviously, I am not talking about any method that is not honest.) If I am to be judged on the minutia of content delivery (word walls, graphic organizers, copious lesson plans, essential questions, ad nauseum….) in the Class Keys, then do not hold me responsible for the end result. It is not fair or reasonable to demand both, but it has been my experience that the fads in education are neither fair nor reasonable. If given a choice, I would much rather be judged on the end result.
Knock Out Punch
April 12th, 2011
8:26 pm
Hmmm….my school has a new student that cusses like a sailor….and we are talking a wee, little kid! Behind in skills, etc., How should a teacher be held accountable for that? I’ll take the accountability if we can “spread the wealth around”…Where is Mom and Dad’s stake in all this? Where is the student’s responsibility? We want schools to raise them totally, to the point that some school has banned lunches from home? CRAZY!..Society is so totally and completely different than even 10 years ago! I’ll promise I’ll do my best and work with these kids to get them as far as I can, but seriously, are you going to blame me for a child who walks into the school already acting like an uncivilized urchin. What other business does that? Cannot think of any.
long time educator
April 12th, 2011
8:47 pm
@Knock Out Punch
I agree that some of the kids and their parents are beyond challenging, but I would still be willing to take the end result of the majority of my students, particularly if looked at over several years. I am a former principal and have studied the test scores of an elementary school faculty. It really did prove true over a number of years, that the good teachers generally have higher scores no matter which kids you give them and the poor teachers do poorly. I always gave each teacher their scores in a grid that showed each subject over the last five years and comparisons to their grade level average, county comparisons and state comparisons. I have had teachers become very upset when they saw how much lower their scores were over several years than their colleagues. The facts spoke for themselves.
Darn Yankee
April 12th, 2011
9:29 pm
Quick question – why do you non-teachers think that teachers AREN’T evaluated already? I’m curious about this. I’m reading thread after thread of how teachers don’t want to be evaluated, and how the PTB need put in place this, that, or the other…
Amazing. Do any of you know any teachers personally? Have you ever actually talked to any of your kids’ as people and not just the professional babysitters that you hope you never hear from? Have any of you non-teachers actually volunteered in a school on a non-fun day (NOT a field trip or special occasion) and worked one on one with a troubled kid?
For the record – there ARE tests to become a teacher (the quality of the GACE I can’t say, since I took the Praxis). You take one to get in a program, and another to prove what you’ve learned. Now, I will say that the trend to let folks take it numerous times if they don’t pass is troubling, but we allow lawyers to take the bar more than once, so what can I say…
Also, teachers ARE evaluated ANNUALLY. Teachers with less than three years have to have two observations, one announced (we jokingly call that the dog and pony show) and one unannounced. Over three years require a yearly announced visit. In addition to that, there is a trend towrad more frequent walk-throughs – my only problem with those is that some focus on a “gotcha-mentality” and ding you for things like not having standards posted – if the kids are engaged in the lesson, then who cares about the walls, IMHO. And all the word walls in the world aren’t going to help a teacher with no classroom management.
Every March, every teacher in the building has a sit down with their evaluating administrator. There is a form that has a variety of categories on it ranging from planning to teaching to professional responsibilities. It IS possible to receive Needs Improvement and if you have two many NIs you don’t get a step increase, you aren’t eligible for “tenure” (GA’s weak version of it) if you have fewer than three years, and you can be placed on a PDP. Failure to improve and you can be fired. I have seen teachers fired EVERY year I have taught.
The effectiveness of all of this comes down to administration. If your school has a large number of “bad” teachers then it likely has a weak administrative team, or it is a tough school that is hard to fill and warm bodies get hired.
I have worked in the real world (longer than I have taught), and I DON’T SEE MUCH DIFFERENCE. I can only wonder where some of you get your information.
Jezel
April 12th, 2011
9:37 pm
Blaming the mess in education on the teachers is a COP out. Parents are the first cause of poor student achievement. The students themselves are the next cause of poor test scores. If a student wants to learn and achieve it does not matter what the teacher does or does not do. Laying the blame on teachers simply enables students the chance to find an excuse.
Jezel
April 12th, 2011
9:48 pm
The interest in this topic of evaluating teachers is based on the fact that it cost less money to run a school if the teachers are new to the profession. Since we are having financial problems across this county we have to cut where we can. So how about this….cut the most expensive state agency…the Dept. of Corrections….and give the money to the schools. In this great state 1 out of 12 are felons. Nationally 1 out of 32 are felons. Cut the 1 billion dollar DOC budget to 300 million and give schools 700 million. Then all this fronting about POOR teachers can be put to sleep.
rosie
April 12th, 2011
9:57 pm
I would like for Ms. Rhee to come into my classroom and MAKE kids do the assignments. Yesterday, I taught my heart out while a small group of students in the classroom chose not to participate. These students refused attempt the assignment. What is a teacher to do when he/she has no way to discipline or enforce rules? Why should I be held accountable for test scores for a student that choooses not to learn?
Patricia - 34 year Veteran
April 12th, 2011
11:30 pm
Several years ago I worked in a district for one year where I was evaluated three times by three different administrators during the course of that year. I received absolutely the best written evaluations I have ever received and my students scored well on the state assessment. However, I was not offered a contract for the next year which would have tenured me. The reason was in my best estimation a money issue as I was an expensive teacher due to my years of experience and certification. Of course I was given no reason for not offering me a contract as school officials are protected against being honest. Luckily I now teach in a school district where experienced teachers are valued. However, in this monetary climate I am unsure how much longer that will continue.
Many years ago I taught in another state where the union required administrators give teachers a heads up as to when they would evaluate. My administrator let me know she wanted to come in, and asked when I would like her to come by. It was my first year in a kindergarten classroom after teaching third grade for several years. My response was come when you want, but if she really wanted to understand the program I was presenting to my students she should come in throughout the day. She visited our class three times that particular day. She was a rare administrator. Over my years I have had some administrators who were not considered effective, but they were in the minority.
The smaller the school district the more a teacher can be impacted by school board members. I can certainly see where a teacher would not be offered a contract simply because a family member or constituent of a board member may soon need a teaching job in the community. I can see this as having an impact against teachers who are currently protected through seniority.
If standardized testing is to become the tool by which I am to be measured then it cannot be the CRCT or any other similar high-stakes test. I want to be judged by the growth my students achieve during their time with me. Pretest in the fall and post test in the spring. Give me the freedom to do what I do well…allow me to plan my lessons in the way that best fit my teaching style and the needs of my students rather than force me to waste hours of my time on a document that is written for the needs of adults who like to simply check off a box on an evaluation form. Really spend time in my classroom giving appropriate feedback throughout the year.
What about those teachers who teach in positions where standardized testing is not even offered such as in PreK or Kindergarten? What about those teachers who teach P.E., or art, or technology? I see all of this as being a true nightmare!!
I have read several comments on this blog ranting about “bad” or ineffective teachers. Right now it seems ALL of us who teach are being branded with this negative viewpoint bandied about by individuals who have never truly walked in the shoes of those of us who teach in very difficult situations. It is time we stand up against this and start voting against those legislators who vote against educators without actually visiting in schools on a regular basis.
Ros Dalton
April 12th, 2011
11:50 pm
Managers in every line of work get indifferent, lazy, bored, entitled employees they have to get results from in order to keep their own jobs and have positive evaluations. It may not be easy to judge their performance as a manager, it may not even be fair, but it happens and it is undeniably more fair than just giving anyone with enough time in the system a flat pass no matter what they’re getting done in the classroom. Experience is the only thing the ‘lifo’ policy protects, and if experience is genuinely valuable it will show through on any reasonable set of evaluations.
Fled
April 13th, 2011
12:21 am
So glad I am out of there. I will NEVER come back to Georgia. Is there anything else the idiots running that benighted state won’t do to ensure that no one wants to work there as a teacher?
Had enough yet, teachers? Give up, throw in the towel. Flee. You will be glad you did.
gradgrind
April 13th, 2011
6:32 am
In the “real world,” they fire CEOs and managers for incompetence. I’d bet that the majority of teachers are competent (with some obvious exceptions). I’d also bet that you can’t say the same about the majority of vice-principals, principals, district-level desk slugs, and especially not the Board. What a bunch of incompetent, entitled morons.
Write Your Board Members
April 13th, 2011
7:00 am
Dunwoody Mom
DeKalb seems to be worse than most systems for getting ready of bad employees. Add to the general jobs program feel of the system, the very many marginally competent administrators, both in the school house and central office, and you have the train wreck that is DeKalb schools right now.
To many teachers, especially on the south side, have connections to higher ups, whether it be through church or Greek life.
hmm?
April 13th, 2011
9:25 am
@Patrica
the pre and post test would be the most effective; but that would require even more test, possibly one every 9 weeks. however, having several “smaller” test throughout the year could show student progress instead of the high stakes once a year remember the whole thing boondoggle that now exist.
the other catch is if we give smaller test throughout the year testing companies would make even more money…..
Advocate
April 13th, 2011
9:30 am
More attacks on the teachers. Georgia will certainly miss out on any teachers coming to this state to work. Atlanta Public Schools just clearly demonstrated how administrators as high up as the Superintendent mistreat teachers and staff. Now we expect a fair objective performance evaluation from the likes of these gangsters. Teachers who have committed to a school district’s children have well earned their time and it should be considered as such. Georgia is turning into an awful place for educators and I wouldn’t tell any student to even think of a career here a teacher.
Advocate
April 13th, 2011
9:46 am
Veteran Teachers remember all these legislative attacks during the next voting cycle. That is what you did to Roy Barnes now look at this mess that we are dealing with under republican rule. Constant attacks on educators and changing the rules for change sakes with no evidence of the possible repercussions to come. Believe me there will be repercussions as this new generation that is to be hired at cheaper salaries will not sustain education as there will be no commitment or endurance. That pack up and leave in a moment notice and that will not be good for the children.
Raquel Morris
April 13th, 2011
10:00 am
@Chuck,
I think we agree on a lot of points. I am glad to hear that your principal takes (and makes) the time to give you a comprehensive evaluation that goes beyond your student’s test scores. It sounds like this is exactly what needs to happen in all schools.
I agree with you about the ridiculous paperwork burden placed on teachers and principals. It has little to no benefit for the children so should be done away with on that point alone.
You asked about evaluations on my job. I am an attorney for a financial services company. In my evaluations, I am compared to the folks who do the same job as me as well as other attorneys across the company whose functions are completely different from mine. I am evaluated directly by my boss and indirectly by my boss’s peers, even though I don’t work directly with them. Naturally, the evaluation process changes or is overhauled seemingly at will. It can be frustrating, confusing and time-consuming but, you just do the best job you can and hope for the best.
Contestjoiner
April 13th, 2011
10:01 am
The solution is simple. Teachers will resort to cheating. Ms. Rhee has done it (or at least tacitly encouraged it), politicians do it, Wall Street bankers do it, successful people cheat. As the saying goes, “If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.”
Michelle Rhee is on a mission to do more damage to the American education system, than George W. Bush and Rod (cheater) Paige ever dreamed of. Using her nefarious tactic, standardized tests that were never meant to statistically judge small groups, she is systematically going about demonizing teachers and their organizations. Over 2/3 of teachers are female, moms, sisters, aunts, grandmas, daughters and wives. This is the enemy?
Sounds to me like a war on women, women that make an honest living, working to better the lives of others.
Go get ‘em Michelle.
Atlanta Media Guy
April 13th, 2011
10:33 am
In DeKalb County, wasn’t the job of evaluating teachers and then helping them become better, assigned to “Audria’s Army” a.k.a. the infamous Office of Improvement? The six figure coaches are suppose to be coaching our teachers. Seems to me the “coaches” are only working on their Doctorate via mail order, making sure their dues for the Frats or Sororities are current and their 10% tithe to New Birth is automatically deposited in the offering plate!
Folks, if you leave it up to principals or “coaches” it will become a popularity contest and not a true indication of how good or bad a teacher really is. I think it should be a group of teachers and administrators from a totally different school system, at least 500 miles from DeKalb County. Maybe SACS can actually do something and formulate an organization of Teachers who actually score their peers and are not involved in the local school board politics.
frustrated parent
April 13th, 2011
10:38 am
@Socrates – you are forgetting that the end “TASK” is not a product – it is a child. Teachers do not have the luxury of knowing their task is accomplished. It is not a finite product. Their “task” is continually growing, changing , forgetting, questioning, being grumpy, sleepy, happy, and energetic, every day . Teachers want accountability – they just want it to be fairly administered.
Education has got to stop being equated with business principles. It is not a business. Educators are not the enemy. The so called experts have never spent a day in a classroom – and they need to before they start claiming they have the solution.
high school teacher
April 13th, 2011
3:27 pm
Conspiracy theory – sounds like a great way to implement CLASS Keys; he/she who has the lowest score gets the axe…
Scott A
April 13th, 2011
5:49 pm
Just another excuse for political games from administrators… the answer is not to hold teachers more accountable (though they should have good attendance and be prepared to teach something every day)… the answer is to hold students accountable to learn. If they won’t, kick them out and let their parents enroll them in private school. Today’s public school teacher spends more time babysitting than teaching. No wonder the most qualified teachers are leaving the profession.
RBN
April 13th, 2011
8:26 pm
We seem to be always putting the cart before the horse. I called for a better evaluation system from 2000 to 2002. But, instead Georgia attacked fair dismissal. Since we have been chasing fast fixes: charter schools, vouchers, 65% soluitions, merit pay, Race to the Top, merit pay..on and on. For once, can we focus on what makes a good teacher and how do we keep that person in the classroom?
SallyB
April 13th, 2011
9:58 pm
@AtlantaMediaGuy:
AMENAMENAMENAMENAMENAMENAMENAMENAMENAMENAMENAMENAMENAMENAMEN!!!
After 32 years of teaching and loving every minute of it, all of those affected, pseudo America’s Choice “coaches” who had been in the classroom for , what…..2 , 3, 4 years at the most….come barging into my classroom with all of their Cures du Jours……Word walls, rubrics, bulletin board requirements, scripted lessons.!!!!
Meanwhile , I knew my subject bacward and forward and I knew how to pass on that knowledge to my students…..who were,for the most part, doing their assignments, participating in class discussions and actually learning , whether parents were involved or not!
Yep…..couldn’t do it, so I left along with multitudes of great teachers…and yes, I was a great teacher . My former students have verified that for me. And I miss it!
Most of all, I hate seeing all of this nonsense going on in Metro Atlanta today.
Has anyone noticed that the reputable private schools do not do this Cure du JOur thing every year??
They are still emphasizing the same old grammar and usage, history, geography, math, conventional science and teaching the same old ways, except for adding in current technology.
SHAMESHAMESHAMESHAME~~~~!
“
SallyB
April 13th, 2011
9:59 pm
CAUGHT IN THE filter monster….Guess it just didn’t like what I had to ssay….
Just A Teacher
April 13th, 2011
10:36 pm
There are a lot of things wrong with this bill. For one thing, it targets a specific set of state employees. Secondly, it gives school boards the power to layoff employees, regardless of seniority, in order to trim payroll. We all know that veteran teachers make more than newcomers. They can easily decide that a 25 year veteran needs to be let go and a 22 year old hired to replace him / her.
If they are going to do this to teachers, they need to do the same thing for the state police, prison guards, the DMV employees and every other state employee.
DiAnne Johnson
April 14th, 2011
11:29 am
Proposing that my salary be directly tied to – as much as 50% – the achievement of my students is ludicrous. I find this a theory that is practical in the business world, but wholly unsupportable in education. In business, when the administrator/boss/executive tells his subordinates what he expects, and how he expects it to be done, the subordinates must rise to his expectations in order to maintain their jobs. In my classroom, no matter how often I express my expectations – based on Georgia Performance and National Standards – my subordinates do not have to comply. They can choose to fail if they wish. Their parents can tell them not to worry about foreign language because this is America and we speak English. They do not have to/are not obligated to do anything that I say. Most do realize that they have to gain an education to succeed in this world, but there are many who don’t or who don’t do it to the best of their ability, regardless of notes sent home, constant encouragement, explaining and re-explaining the material, websites with all manner of information loaded for their convenience, books and workbooks issued, etc. I have no control over my students once they leave my classroom, nor can I make them perform under any detriment to themselves save their own ambition when they are in my classroom. How can the governor and the legislature of this state propose to tie my salary to something over which I have no control? No matter how well I execute my job, my students are not obligated to succeed. When I work twelve 40-hour work weeks of unpaid overtime in any given year to offer my students the best of what I can do, and they are not obligated to take advantage of it, how can it be reasonable for my salary to be based on their achievement? When I further my education, at great personal and financial cost, to be an even more effective teacher, and they are not obligated to succeed, how can it be reasonable for my salary to be based on their achievement?
Additionally now I will be on the chopping block if there are reductions in force. Why? Because I will be a teacher with advanced (pertinent) degrees, and I will no longer be cost effective. This will give “business-minded” county administrators license to let me go in favor of a cheaper, younger teacher. This is a practice from the corporate world which I have always considered criminal. How many business professionals have been tossed out of their jobs in their late 40’s and 50’s, before they can retire, in favor of younger professionals who will earn less salary at entry level? Hmmmm. The future abuse is all too clear.
ssteacher
April 15th, 2011
11:02 pm
This is not about good or bad teachers. It is about reducing expenditures. This makes it probable that teachers who are paid most will be first out when budgets need cut.
Once you get someone who makes decisions about education who is not in the classroom, it is NEVER about STUDENTS. It is ALWAYS about MONEY.
Sandy
April 16th, 2011
10:18 am
If parents are to judge whether or not I am a good teacher, then they should be required to attend at least a week of my classes. Every day, all day. What they hear at home is very often not everything that happens in the class. Recently, a student who got a D on a test lied to the parents and guess who got blasted in an email? Me. It took three emails and a phone call before the parent realized their child lied. If she gets to rate me, I fail. If she was in my class and sees how I teach, I win. Honestly, the attacks on teachers being the cause of the downfall of society these days is enough to make me want to seek other employment.
And @Socrates: Sometimes the standardized test questions are SO poorly worded, that it is difficult for even teachers to figure out what they were asking. And it is fact that students who miss a lot of school do poorly on standardized tests. I have a student who has missed 21 days this year due to family vacations. His parents are the first to call for a conference when he gets back and doesn’t do well on a test. Maybe if I could be his responsible guardian and make sure he gets to school I would feel more responsible for his achievement.
I get rated on my performance by my administrators. Who thinks teachers answer to no one? It’s utterly ridiculous the amount of misinformation that floats around in peoples’ heads.
Sandy
April 16th, 2011
10:20 am
@ DiAnn: I am in the same boat. With 21 years of near perfect evaluations and various honors, I am thinking I may not have a job soon.
aps mom
April 16th, 2011
5:06 pm
I wholly agree that job security should be based on in-class performance/merit. Instead of principles being figureheads and mouthpieces to the parents, they should know exactly what is going on in that classroom, as well as the parent/student views of that teacher. There are ways of asking questions that get around the like/dislike answer that can get to the root of a teacher’s performance. And less face it – if a whole class dislikes a teacher, then there is a problem somewhere.
I worked at a prominent elementary school in Buckhead. The principle was in those classrooms all the time evaluating those teachers. She mentioned how much time she was required to do this a year, and while it was exorbitant, from a parent’s perspective, it was nice to know that she was that involved.
As for the person that said any teacher can be eliminated by a principal at will – NO WAY. Listen to this one. Myself, others, and this same principle documented for 1 1/2 months a teacher who was drinking on campus and drunk by the end of the day. It was not enough. We even found the bottles that she was drinking out of, and saw her drinking – it was not enough. APS has a policy that when there is suspicion of a teacher under the influence, an APS person must be called and must come to the school immediately to confirm. As this was often confirmed at the end of the day, it was never a convenient time to call APS and get them down there. Why didn’t the teacher call the police or give a breathalyzer, it is against the policy (I’m not sure that is Ga policy or national). I went to the principal of the main campus, talked to her and told her everything i knew, and that I was going to APS. I asked her (keep in mind, this was not a threatening conversation; I have known her for years) if she realized that if this got out, she would lose her job (the parents have high expectations and are very influential). She said yes, and that her hands were tied.
Keep in mind, also, this teacher continued to have the least-prepared children moving to the next grade, so performance was an issue as well.
After going to legal at APS, I found out the following: Ga has a ‘no tolerance policy’ – yes, laughable!! They also have a 3-yr tenure!!! After a teacher reaches tenure, a process must be followed to give this teacher an opportunity to change their ways and become compliant with expectations. Let me assure you, this process can take quite a while. I continued to ask, if we have a ‘no tolerance policy’ then how can you allow a teacher to continue when substance has been confirmed. Policy apparently comes from the state level and that’s why they must go with ‘the process.’ He told me two disturbing things: there are other cases in APS where the teachers have been under the influence of drugs as well – they are still teaching because of policy. The second, it was easier to fire him (lawyer for APS), than it was to fire his assistant, or any teacher in the system.
You wonder why we are 48th in the nation – POLICY is a big part of it!!