Corporal punishment: Why are we still hitting students in schools?
As a former writer on family issues, I was always taken aback when parents and schools espoused a multi-vitamin view of physical punishment, telling me that children needed a whack now and then to grow up big and strong.
I’ve been a longtime advocate of barring schools from using corporal punishment. With all the attention around the abuse of children , it stuns me that we allow adults to legally strike students.
Only 20 states, including Georgia, still permit paddling in their schools, but that is changing.
Some dedicated parents in Georgia are attempting to impose a ban here, but the Legislature has adopted a hands-off attitude, enabling local school districts to decide for themselves whether to paddle. Most metro districts eschew physical discipline, but it does go on, especially in rural Georgia.
While there are obvious educational, moral and psychological problems with paddles that ought to compel districts to retire them, there’s also the threat of lawsuits. It’s surprising that school systems would continue a practice that is such a legal minefield.
I am on several e-mail lists and get a lot of daily updates on the national effort to end corporal punishment, which is most common in Southern schools. I am happy to report that the campaign is gaining momentum even in states that have revered the paddle.
The New York Times took up the topic this week.
Among the comments in the story:
When Tyler Anastopoulos got in trouble for skipping detention at his high school recently, he received the same punishment that students in parts of rural Texas have been getting for generations.
Tyler, an 11th grader from Wichita Falls, was sent to the assistant principal and given three swift swats to the backside with a paddle, recalled Angie Herring, his mother. The blows were so severe that they caused deep bruises, and Tyler wound up in the hospital, Ms. Herring said.
While the image of the high school principal patrolling the halls with paddle in hand is largely of the past, corporal punishment is still alive in 20 states, according to the Center for Effective Discipline, which tracks its use in schools around the country and encourages its end. Most of those states are in the South, where paddling remains ingrained in the social and family fabric of some communities.
Each year, prodded by child safety advocates, state legislatures debate whether corporal punishment amounts to an archaic form of child abuse or an effective means of discipline.
This month, Tyler, who attends City View Junior/Senior High School, told his story to lawmakers in Texas, which is considering a ban on corporal punishment. The same week, legislators in New Mexico voted to end the practice there.
Texas schools, Ms. Herring fumed, appear to have free rein in disciplining a student, “as long as you don’t kill him.”
“If I did that to my son,” she said, “I’d go to jail.”
Up until about 25 years ago, corporal punishment in public schools could be found in all but a handful of states, said Nadine Block, the founder of the Center for Effective Discipline. Prompted by the threat of lawsuits and research that questioned its effectiveness, states gradually started banning the practice.
According to estimates by the federal Department of Education, 223,190 children were subjected to corporal punishment in the 2005-6 school year. That was a nearly 20 percent drop from a few years earlier, Ms. Block said.
In Texas, at least 27 of about 1,000 school districts still use corporal punishment, said Jimmy Dunne, the founder and president of another group that is against the practice, People Opposed to Paddling Students.
In New Mexico — where more than a third of the school districts permit corporal punishment, according to a local children’s legal services group — legislators approved a paddling ban this month. Gov. Susana Martinez, a Republican, has not indicated whether she will sign the bill.
Opponents of the measure, like State Senator Vernon D. Asbill, worried that a ban would tie teachers’ hands and make it harder for them to control students. “With parental supervision and parental approval, I believe it’s appropriate,” said Mr. Asbill, a Republican and a longtime teacher and school administrator from Carlsbad. “The threat of it keeps many of our kids in line so they can learn.”
But State Senator Cynthia Nava, a Democrat and a school superintendent from Las Cruces who supports the ban, said schools were no place for violence of any sort. “It’s shocking to me that people got up on the floor and argued passionately to preserve it,” she said of corporal punishment. “We should be educating kids that they can’t solve problems with violence.”
Calls to end corporal punishment have gotten louder of late, even in states unlikely to pass a ban. In Mississippi, the family of a teenager who was paddled in school has filed a federal lawsuit. The suit, filed against the Tate County School District, claims that corporal punishment is unconstitutional because it is applied disproportionately to boys.
The teenager’s lawyer, Joe Murray, is also representing the family of another student who was paddled at the same high school this month. In that case, the boy was struck so hard that he passed out and broke his jaw, Mr. Murray said.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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197 comments Add your comment
gamom
March 30th, 2011
10:06 pm
I will maintain that educators who resort to hitting children – are using the excuse from the parent with that signed form – after all, you educators are supposed to be the educated ones – i still say educators that do this are incompetent. One person’s smack is another person’s abuse. There is just wrong here at every level. South Georgia teacher – there are no peer reviewed studies for your side.. If there is one – peer reviewed – please share it.
gamom
March 30th, 2011
10:09 pm
If i have to relocate to South Ga teachers district for any reason – I will be sure to home school – even though I pay into the taxes I should be able to send my kids to any district without them encountering this whatsoever. What do you say to the parents who don’t want their kid sent to this type of environment. Why should my kids learn how to snicker at their peers for getting hit – I see that as a form of bullying. With all the attention on bullying lately, isn’t adults hitting children with wooden boards – just the same as bullying. Your bigger, you have a weapon and you’re hitting a child. What’s the logic in that. Incidentally, you can’t bring your tool of the trade …aka… paddle into any state capitol – it’s considered a weapon
Elizabeth
March 30th, 2011
10:13 pm
Dr. Spinks: I would post such videos if I were legally allowed to– but I am not.
long time educator
March 30th, 2011
10:33 pm
When I went to school back in the sixties, there were very few discipline problems. Kids respected teachers, parents supported the school and kids got paddled at school and at home. I hear all the arguments against paddling and, in my opinion, the main one is the potential of lawsuits, but the biggest problem in education today is the lack of respect and discipline. Maybe the key element in the sixties was not paddling but parent respect and support of the school. Whatever it was, it worked. What is happening today is not working. TEACHERS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM, DISRUPTIVE, DISRESPECTFUL STUDENTS ARE. Legislate something for that.
gamom
March 30th, 2011
11:12 pm
long time educator – i wish i had a nickel for every post lamenting the supposed wretched behavior by kids – Hitting is not the answer, it leaves too much latitude for abusers who may even be attracted to working in school systems that use corporal punishment. If the classroom management style isn’t working, then do something about it. Change it, call the parents in – have a conference, Why is it that educators can’t figure this out, but can easily whine all the time. There is so much literature on how to manage classrooms it isn’t funny. All I see is excuses on these blogs.
Theresa Edwards
March 30th, 2011
11:29 pm
Maureen I really pat you on the back because you willingly stand up to the bullies and some of the most hard core “you can’t tell me nuthin crowd”.
For the record the total of children starting as young as “4″ being struck with a wooden board here in the United States as of this years stats is 250,000. With over 20,000 of these very same CHILDREN requiring treatment from medical personnel, for some “setting them up for lawsuits” simple things such as hematomas, ruptured spincters, massive bruising, uncontrolled vaginal bleeding, (because the young female was struck while on her cycle and thus tearing the lining from the inside of the uterus). These are just some of the medical circumstances that are a direct result of the child being struck with a wooden board. Now, it is basic common sense that Not one of us learns through physical pain. If, you or I screw up at work would you willingly allow your supervisor to strike you with a wooden board or would you yell assualt and battery? Children must be taught that violence is not the way to solve problems and this barbaric practice teaches just this. We are complaining about the level of violence in our schools and if you look at the rate of beatings that are taking place in the 19 states that still allow this. The stats of school beatings and the level of violence from those students have risen at the same rate. The states that allow beatings to continue have the lowest graduation rate and highest drop out rates than the states that have Banned this practice. Also states that have banned this practice have Higher acheivement rates, higher tests scores, and a lower teen suicide rate.
We tell the world that we are an educated country yet we are the ONLY country that still allows this barbaric practice, even Somalia recently banned this in the limited schools that they have. How can we say that we are an educated country yet still harm the weakest of our society??
Will
March 30th, 2011
11:49 pm
I grew up in the early seventies. I had my ass paddled in school when I screwed up. Not beaten but paddled. It taught me a lesson….. three times….. Joined the military where I served PROUDLY. Served in Desert Storm Part One In 1991. Cavalry Scout on the front lines during Desert Storm One and the Cold War.from 76 to 79.where .my life expentency if the sh** ever hit the fan was eleven minitutes, Ha, we loved it. The military taught me responsibility over and above what my parents and school instilled in me. I now teach at a technical college here in Georgia. Have been for the last twenty years. I posted a comment above about dropping twenty plus students the first few days. I have a 98 percent placement ratio for my graduating students because I DO NOT PUT UP WITH ANY BULL CRAP. New students know what the rules are and the responsible ones do it, The lesser students (bad attitudes, child support problems, minor criminal records} generaly step up to the plate and succeed. I work with really great students who want to shine with great attitudes etc.. and have a fantastic record. I find that if I kick them in the a**, figuratively, they come around. I tell them in my orientation they are in ADULT SCHOOL and they will be expected to learn skills that will take them to better lifestyles and jobs. I have a vested interest in these students because when I retire, these folks will be running the world, I have not given up, no, never giving up on the good ones. I have sooooo many success stories from supposed losers from the high schools.
I also tell them its OK to DROP OUT OF SCHOOL,,,,,,yeah it’s cool and good for you. Because lots of business need scut level sweepers to clean the toilets, grounds, parks, BATHROOMS , TOILETS AND SINKS, sweep the floors, pick up the vomit from the various venues what ever the hell goes on in there.WHEN YOU DROP OUTOF SCHOOL……………whooooooooooo, happy day. This… I tell them is your LIFE……untill you get it together.and man up and get together with a better education Am I Wrong????????????? Am I being too politicly correct????????
Nawwwwwwwww I think not
k teacher
March 30th, 2011
11:59 pm
Corporal punishment and prayer have been mostly taken out of the schools. Look at the mess we have. Yet everybody wants to compare us to nations that allow said punishment or worse.
SALLYB
March 31st, 2011
12:05 am
@ Wondering@6:19…Perfect solution!!!! I am wondering myself why there hasn’t been more response by our posters to that 6:19 post.
Believe it or not, your suggestion of calling the parent to pick up a misbehaving child, setting a time limit, and if the parent doesn’t show up he/she must pick up the student at Juvenile facility has been offered by teachers and even some administrators to the DCSS.
Absolutely blown off as if the group offering the suggestion were made up of cretins!!!!
Everybody talks about the primary problem in today’s classroom being disrespect, disgusting behavior, and disappointing performance.Yet, no one is willing to try something that actually might work!
High School SS Teacher
March 31st, 2011
1:08 am
I agree with Wondering and long time teacher. If parents refuse to handle kids who act up, schools should have the power to discipline. I think only 20% of kids would qualify for corporal punishment, but over time, the threat of pain would decrease that number. The stories about Roosevelt High show that kids know when enough is enough. Many dont know that today.
ISS today is an absolute joke. Kids go out there and text and sleep all day. Some kids go for a class period when they dont like a certain teacher. Then they come back to class and say, ” I cant take the test, I was in ISS.” I respond, “I sent work for you and you didnt complete any of it or try and come to tutorial after school.” Kids know how to work the system and they need to be held more accountable for THEIR own actions. Unless you address the problem at the source, it wont ever be resolved.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta
March 31st, 2011
4:25 am
Elizabeth,
How about providing such videos to a trusted media person for dissemination?
Elizabeth
March 31st, 2011
5:29 am
gamom: “Call a parent. Have a conference”. Do you thnk we don’t do this-or try to? These kids are out of congtrol because the parents have no control. I have no doubt that you control your child. Do you know how many parents do not? If you can get them on the phone– if you can get them to the school– and these are big if’s– they respond either that they they can’t control the child or promise to do something. Nothing changes. Can you and the other disbelievers give teachers some credit? What else can we do? Our school discipline plan has 4 steps: 1. silent lunch ( this is the real joke– it is not silent when surrounded by other talking kids. And before you say it– there is is no place to isolate them. 2. Call home. 3. Parent conference. 4. Office referral. If you refer too many, the administrators stop listening to you and you are told to “improve your class control”. Those are basically the only things we can do. Detention in middle school is virtually impossible because the kids do not drive and parents can’t or wson’t transport them there. These steps only work with kids who are controlled at home. They do NOT work with chronic disruptors. Open your eyes. Or better still, obsrve in a classroom for a week. You will be ready to paddle them too.
Dr. Spinks: I cannot video my students without getting a signed release from every parent and withhout having a “reason” to tape. I can’t just set up cameras in my classroom and run them. Even if I could, I am not alloweed to use them except in a “teaching situation”. I would lose my job in a heartbeat if I releaSsed them to “a trusted news person”.
Teachers are powerless. When will the public understand this? And until this changes and the balance of power shifts, NOTHING will change in education. That is why I just joined MACE.
drew (former teacher)
March 31st, 2011
6:28 am
Wondering:
Great idea, but unfortunately it’s completely unrealistic in this age of coddling. The politically correct crowd would frown upon that kind of decisive and appropriate action. In other words, you can’t hand these little darlings over to the justice system…that would be like a “child left behind”.
gamom: take a deep breath and repeat after me…”it’s only a blog…it’s only a blog…”. And BTW, if you move to south Georgia you need not homeschool…just don’t provide the school with permission to use corporal punishment on your child. Now wasn’t that simple!
And you can spout off all you want about how corporal punishment doesn’t work, but the fact is, with some students, and in some situations, it DOES work. Or are you going to tell me that corporal punishment is NEVER, EVER useful?
1 for spanking
March 31st, 2011
6:43 am
gamom is off in hippie la-la land. I’m glad to see adults on here who advocate a butt swatting.
Jordan Kohanim
March 31st, 2011
7:27 am
I cannot imagine a scenario in which a governing body should ever have the right to strike a child. It is a right to be exercised by parents/guardians only.
I don’t think I could work for a system that condoned such behavior. As far as I know, Fulton (wisely) does not use corporal punishment.
Gunluvr
March 31st, 2011
7:40 am
Corporal punishment works!! And it should be used more often than it is. The problem with it is how it’s applied and by whom that makes it ineffective. GA law authorizes it but the schools systems don’t use it because of lawsuit fears. Civil immunity should be extended to the GA school systems and may be but a lot of cases are filed in the federal courts; so immunity on a federal level is needed.
Dr NO
March 31st, 2011
7:40 am
td
March 30th, 2011
2:40 pm
Spank the Parent…Absolutely Great Idea!!! As some of them behave worse than their precious little innocent darlings.
Philosopher
March 31st, 2011
7:56 am
Insanity reigns! Spanking is about nothing but power and control. It’s so damn easy! It makes the punisher feel GOOD!! It makes them feel POWERFUL! “There! I showed YOU who is in control, now didn’t I?? I don’t care one whit if I also taught you to handle with violence people who don’t bend to your will…that’s your problem and if you turn around and hit another kid because that’s what I just taught you…I’ll beat you again!”
Children are not animals- Stop the lazy, ignorant practice of spanking and think about what the child needs to learn. EDUCATE YOURSELVES! There are other ways to discipline- they take hard work and imagination but you can, as so many of us have done, raise good, kind, responsible citizens who do not strike others in order to get what they want!
Tokyo Toto: Playin' the harp
March 31st, 2011
8:07 am
The top public school in the nation….
Notice that they use traditional Alg. 1/Geometry,/Alg.2 math sequence. In 2009, 62 seniors were accepted at Carnegie Mellon, the #1 school for computer science, as well as strong engineering and robotics programs. The U.S. Defense department (and DARPA) recruits heavily from this school. Interestingly, it is private (about $52,000/yr). Thomas Jefferson is run as a free-standing magnet school; students must apply and be accepted. The school is tax supported, but receives hefty grants/support from large corporations.
Tokyo Toto: Playin' the harp
March 31st, 2011
8:08 am
OOPS!
Here’s the link to Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology
http://www.tjhsst.edu/curriculum/dss/docs/tjprofile_2010.pdf
Philosopher
March 31st, 2011
8:13 am
@drew (former teacher) No, hitting children is neither acceptable nor necessary. Period. I have raised 3 respectful, well-behaved , responsible, and KIND children whom I have nevr hit. I realize there are some really lazy parents out there- the ones who abdicate parenting altogether, and those who take the easy way and samck their kids so they don’t have to think about discipline. And I know that it makes things tough for the poor teachers who have to deal with them. But adults who grow human beings (also known as parents) are RESPONSIBLE for them. I say stop coddling parents and remove children from public schools who are intractibly disobedient. They are the PARENTS’ problem! Teachers have no business deciding who needs a spanking, or how hard or how many times they should be smacked…clearly there are a lot of you out there on the edge itching to spank a kid. It needs to stop!
Philosopher
March 31st, 2011
8:16 am
Sorry for the typos- I need that second cup of coffee-badly!
ScienceTeacher671
March 31st, 2011
8:28 am
Philosopher, I’m a bit worried that you think spanking is FUN.
IMO, no form of discipline is FUN, but raising a child properly makes some form (or forms) necessary. Having raised 3 children, you probably have noticed that a sharp word works for some children, and more drastic measures are needed for others, but frequently different children require different forms of punishment.
ScienceTeacher671
March 31st, 2011
8:29 am
When we were kids, “time out” in our bedrooms was torture for my little brother, who loved to run & play outside. I didn’t care – as long as I had a book in there and wouldn’t be bothered, I could stay there all day!
Lynx
March 31st, 2011
9:11 am
Would you go to a doctor who had no idea what was wrong with you, but suggested that you just take the medicine, not knowing whether it would help you or hurt you? Beating a kid *might* address the symptoms, but rarely *solves* the problem. Sometimes kids read the physical punishment as attention from an adult that is better than being ignored. Lack of discipline means a kid isn’t being taught self-control, and so loses self-respect. It is NOT the beating that “straightens out” the kid, it is the feeling that some adult is paying attention and demanding proper behavior. There are lots of ways to get to this solution without the fast and thoughtless approach of physical punishment.
In my high school and elementary schools, spanking was the norm. We had that Assistant Principal, big and mean as Bull Connor, with the same choice others have talked about on this blog – detention or “licks” (hmm, now sounds kind of sado-sexual, huh?). One of the girls he was preparing to wale away on sucker punched him and he beat the “H” out of her. It certainly reinforced what dear old daddy was doing to her at home every night with his belt when he was drunk – she used to come to school with black eyes and bruises, but a smile on her face for what she gave Pop in return. She never went to jail, but she sure learned to defend herself against the abusive men in her life, even married one out of habit.
Philosopher, you are correct. Hitting kids is lazy. It might have been the easiest way to stop a kid from repeatedly putting himself in a life and death situation or for endangering the family’s survival – after all, mama mammals are pretty harsh with their youngsters – especially when you have 10 youngsters to deal with like my grandmothers had. But when you have one kid “acting out” beating on them will AT BEST alter the behavior that you can see. My father liberally spanked us kids and we didn’t change our behavior, only hid it better and became sneaky little liars.
Catlady, defend your point about lack of corporal punishment = jail with published statistics, not your anecdotes. I think what you are seeing is that if there is NO discipline at home, kids can go very wrong.
gamom
March 31st, 2011
9:15 am
Abusers are attracted to schools that paddle – it is about power and control. Let me say that again – abusers are attracted to schools that paddle. Not only are they incompetent but some of the may be sadists – you never know. Why would anyone trust a school official to dole out this punishment – you never ever would know the true motivations of a hitter
Philosopher
March 31st, 2011
9:16 am
Different children require different strategies for learning and discipline- absolutely correct! And none of those includes hitting the child. I never said spanking is fun (though clearly for some it is), but adults who spank their kids do so because they can and want to… because they are frustrated and fed up with the child’s behavior and it is easy, gives immediate gratification (results seen right away)and is satisfying…whether they will admit to it, or not.
South Georgia Teacher
March 31st, 2011
11:07 am
Schools get stuck with paddling when all the other options are taken away. I remember when we could just call parents to come get their misbehaving children. If the parents wouldn’t come, the police would come get them and charge the parents $50 to pick them up. The students weren’t charged with anything, but picking children up at the police station sure got everyone’s attention! Now the schools are accountable for student attendance, so we try not to send them home. Law Enforcement can no longer intervene unless they charge the children with a crime. Fellow bloggers, what do you think is appropriate punishment for 6-8 grade students who say “F-You” to teachers, raise cain in class, disrupt the learning of others, throw tantrums, destroy the property, skip class, smoke in the bathroom, cuss out other students, etc.?
Katie S.
March 31st, 2011
11:17 am
five years ago, I went to a school in texas in which the elementary school consisted of k-6, having moved there from henry county, I found the idea of 6th grade in elementary school a ridiculous practice, but I digress. In gym class, they gave suicides for punishment for everything, if you didn’t get changed in 3 minutes, you got 5 suicides, my mother found offense with the term for them and forbade me to do them, I was sent to the principal’s office and told I could either go into the library and write out the books for the rest of the period, or take 2 “swatches” as they called them, I chose to take them and go back to class, being a sixth grader I don’t think its appropriate to make them choose their punishment. I never told my parents, and a month later, the school got around to calling my parents to tell them, they went to the school and raised hell, how the school had no right to touch me, much less without calling the parents first, they didn’t punish me at all. I found great satisfaction in the ordeal, that the administration had no control over me any longer, it was quite liberating. I think the practice of corporal punishment is demeaning, archaic, and it is indeed child abuse, had my parents hit me with a wooden paddle, I would have been put into a foster home.
Philosopher
March 31st, 2011
11:31 am
Behavior rules have been VERY clearly articulated in all the schools my children have attended. While I have not even been called at home with behavior issues, I have been very aware that disruptive children were removed from the classroom, suspended, placed in alternative schools, and expelled. Teachers shouldn’t be meting out corporal punishment. If you follow the disciplinary plan, the kid will be removed before you get a chance to whack on him/her. If your discipline plan fails to allow removal of a disruptive, disrepectful, threatening child…DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Most of the kids you see acting out at school are NOT the kids who are appropriately disciplined at home and are happy, well-adjusted kids…they are abused, neglected, and never shown or taught respect for themselves or others…so you beat them and teach them to beat others and round and round and round we go!
Lynx
March 31st, 2011
11:55 am
The only thing missing from spanking proponents’ post is the request, “Please sir may I have another?” because, according to you folks, spanking is so good for “some” kids that those kids and their parents should actually be asking for physical punishment. In my junior high school, the kids in shop class had to make the paddles for the principal’s office – 2 inches thick, shaped like a cutting board with a handle, and with holes drilled through the surface so that they would swing faster and hurt more. All perfectly normal?
Jack
March 31st, 2011
11:58 am
@ Katie S. – I’m not sure I get the point you were trying to make. It seemed to me that you were glad to find out that the administrators had no control over your behavior, thus you could pretty much do whatever you wanted to do, consequences be damned. If that’s the case … would you want your children doing the same thing in school? And if it isn’t the case, forgive my misunderstanding.
David Granger
March 31st, 2011
12:02 pm
Ms. Downey, when I was a kid…paddling was the ONLY kind of punishment that worked with me, either at school or at home. If my teachers or principal or parents used any other method…writing lines, detention, extra work, staying in at recess, with-holding privileges, preventing me from other activities…I figured that I had GOTTEN AWAY with it.
SALLYB
March 31st, 2011
12:19 pm
Dr.No@7:40 : SPANK THE PARENT !
WONDERING’S point of 6:19 yesterday would be the equivalent of a parent spanking and a little more acceptable. Bet those kids would shape right up if the parent had to leave work and/or PAY when they were disruptive.
South Ga Teacher mentioned that that won”t work because police have to charge the child or cannot take them in.
That policy could be easily changed.
Actually, the local police pick up students that they see skipping school and bring them to school in many places in GA, and I’ll bet other places, too.
If anyone is really interested in fixing the edu. discipline problems…Partnering with Juvenile authorities/law enforcement
…. and consistantly following through without exception will do it.
Batgirl
March 31st, 2011
1:02 pm
Re Wondering’s 6:19 post from yesterday, I would suggest that instead of taking the child to a detention center, he/she should be taken to the parent’s workplace, preferably with lights flashing and sirens blaring.
South Georgia Teacher
March 31st, 2011
1:20 pm
Bat Girl, we used to drop kids off at their parents’ workplace, hang-out, whatever. We had to stop because attendance became our secondary indicator for AYP (Annual Measurable Progress).
Many rural counties lost their alternative schools due to budget cuts.
Philosopher
March 31st, 2011
1:21 pm
@ Batgirl: Love it!!
Philosopher
March 31st, 2011
1:27 pm
Logic here, you keep disruptive, disrepectful kids at school so your attendance numbers look good??? Most of those kids are attendance problems, anyway. And a whole schools full of teachers let this go on to make NUMBERS look good?! Something is screwy in Denmark…and if it is true…why do you let it happen?? Stand up and say “Hell, no!” Show some respect for yourselves. Solid support from teachers stopped a governor from being elected…try again.
gamom
March 31st, 2011
1:57 pm
South Georgia Teacher – I am not trying to be rude here but want to know – where does your county buy paddles to hit kids? Or do you guys make them in shop or something? Can’t you find some other way rather than hitting. And you stated that it works at your school – you have any data to support that assertion? I will tell you that Georgia is one of the poorest ranked states in terms of child welfare. If you have an absentee parent and the child is home watching and playing violent video games, perhaps has to live with a drug or alcohol addicted parent – how do you suppose your method of paddling is going to help the situation. You pretty much giving the green light to the parents to go ahead and hit at home and you hit at school, dontchya? That’s the way I see it. In fact studies support that as well. As a child gets older, it takes more spanks, with much more force to get any kind of point across (although it will backfire) (yes indeed multiple types of studies conclude this) – and someone also said the kids choose this kind of punishment – OF COURSE THEY DO. They’d rather get something overwith quick and they are less likely to tell their parents anything. ..If they come from an already abusive or neglectful parents – what child wants to spill the beans to the parent?. therefore you are contributing to the delinquency of a minor if you don’t involve the parent or you just skip over that part. Where do schools in Georgia get these paddles anyway? ARe my tax dollars supplying you with weapons? Because you can’t take a paddle into any courthouse, other public buildings and not even state capitols
gamom
March 31st, 2011
2:10 pm
Here’s a story where according to it the mother expressly told them in writing NOT to paddle:
http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14352089
You can’t tell me this doesn’t go on in Georgia
gamom
March 31st, 2011
2:16 pm
To south GA teacher – do you have any sort of pbis program or bully prevention program school wide? Seriously, listen to yourself – you keep giving excuses to hit children. I think class size also impacts behavior. Some kids just can’t handle all the stimuli as well as the teachers.
Philosopher
March 31st, 2011
2:42 pm
If you view children as animals to be trained, spanking could make some sort of sense, I suppose. But if you view children as intelligent human beings placed in your care to be raised to thinking, responsible, kind, considerate, and respectful citizens, spanking is completely counter-productive. Spanking merely results in fear that masquerades as respect. If you’re content with that…
Cobb History Teacher
March 31st, 2011
2:54 pm
@gamom
I agree with your stance on corporal punishment in school, however I disagree with you stance on the behavior of many children. Personally my child behaves differently with me than when he is with his peers. Just because Johnny or jenny behave at home doesn’t mean they will when they are with their peers.
Have you considered going into the classroom and practicing what you preach? For every nickel you have for post lamenting the supposed wretched behavior by kids I have two nickels for posts by people who don’t teach or work in the system but think they know how to teach and manage students.
I strongly suggest that those who are critical of the system join us and improve things rather than cast stones. It’s easy to give advice when you don’t have to follow / practice it.
Top School---John Sam, Jr.
March 31st, 2011
3:01 pm
Yes…those children in the Southside APS schools are treated much differently than those on the Northside of Atlanta.
Transferred midyear…and my first hand experiences in Southside APS , I observed
Southside corporal punishment…and abuse…
The comment made to me…”You don’t understand BLACK children.”
But honestly…if my punishment for blowing the whistle on misuse of Northside APS funds was a transfer to the Southside schools…
Why would I attempt to BLOW the Whistle on someone abusing a Southside child to minority APS Leadership…If reporting falsified attendance and misuse of funds of the WHITE PRINCIPAL means you are unworthy of employment in an APS- NORTHSIDE SCHOOLS…WHAT would happen if you reported these abusive issues in the APS Southside schools.
Southside APS teachers don’t dare to speak up…for fear of what would happen to their jobs.
And the APS-Southside beatings go on…unchallenged.
Of course you would need to not value your job to TELL…
and allow your teaching certificate to expire.
http://www.TopPublicSchoolCorruptionAtlanta.com
Top School---John Sam, Jr.
March 31st, 2011
3:07 pm
APS Teacher
March 30th, 2011
9:02 am
Maureen,
This doesn’t just go on in “rural Georgia.” In the lowest income APS schools, hitting, pinching, taping mouths shut, flicking children on the forehead, etc. are all COMMON discipline practices. The rational is always that this is the way their parents discipline them so it is how we have to discipline them too. It is outrageous.
@Top School …the LAW STATES YOU ARE ETHICALLY RESPONSIBLE TO REPORT THESE ISSUES…
But, if you report unethical conduct … they will retaliate against you!
gamom
March 31st, 2011
3:13 pm
All the teachers are mandated reporters – shame on you if you have been complacent in any way
gamom
March 31st, 2011
3:16 pm
Boy to we need reform fast – especially after reading some of the comments here — This is what Marc Ecko says about the matter – Bravo to him
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason-pollock/exclusive-interview-with-_2_b_842662.html
South Georgia Teacher
March 31st, 2011
3:31 pm
Gamom, we actually don’t have many chronic discipline problems in my school, so students are not paddled often. Paddling is just one possible consequence for students who REPEATEDLY break the rules. Most students comply before they ever get that far. I am glad we have the option for ADMINISTRATORS to paddle, because it allows the students to avoid home suspension. Teachers never paddle. Students never witness paddlings.
Philosopher
March 31st, 2011
3:33 pm
Except that Mr. Ecko says:”But this is something that everyone can agree on, hitting children in public schools is simply wrong.”…obviously we aren’t there yet in this state…But we’ll keep trying to educate.
gamom
March 31st, 2011
3:44 pm
students never witness paddling – the mere fact that the children know paddling is going on creates a hostile fear filled learning environment. Don’tchya think there is snickering going on? I can promise you a lot of boys probably think this is a macho thing. — to take a paddling without crying – they probably have little wagers on that. Does the administrator call the parent each and every time? Who regulates how much paddling is going on? I’m curious what district you speak of. Is it reported each and every time to the state? You say it doesn’t happen that much. I say 1 is too many. There are districts reporting 1000’s of corporal punishment incidences per school year. Maureen has seen the documentation as she has stated. I don’t know what age you teach – but I sure hope it is not middle or high school. How do you in South Georgia handle bullying then?