When money runs out, line up the usual suspects: Arts, music, PE and counselors
Remember those warnings that next year will even be tougher for schools than this year? It appears they were accurate.
The drastic reductions in staffing and programs under consideration in metro area school systems reflect the ongoing fallout from a bad economy. Clayton was considering one of the region’s most extreme responses: Cutting its school year by 37 days and adding two hours to each day. Instead, the county will lay off more than 75 elementary school art, music, physical education teachers and counselors despite opposition from parents — the lost positions represent half of the arts, fine arts and PE staffs.
“I don’t see a way of saving a five-day school week and arts and music at the same time,” said Clayton Superintendent Edmond Heatley.
About 600 Clayton parents showed up at a meeting this week, most to protest the elimination of the positions that they say are essential to provide children with a well-rounded education. The superintendent says aggressive action has to be taken to deal with a $49.2 million budget shortfall expected over the next two years.
As newly elected Georgia school chief John Barge has said at almost all his public appearances, educators have to do more with less. His take on the financial constraints — that tough times don’t have to dim opportunity — may not assuage the disappointed parents whose children will lose orchestra or art.
We can expect similar parent frustration as other systems begin their budget cutting.
- Atlanta Public Schools is in the midst of early budget preparations and expects a shortfall next year, though no firm figure in available yet. Last year, APS finalized a $589 million budget that cut annual spending by $67 million. Austerity measures included bigger class sizes, involuntary furlough days and a system-wide pay freeze.
- Fulton County school officials are expecting a “tough, challenging” budget process for fiscal 2012, said chief financial officer Robert Morales. Between reductions in proposed state budget and a 5 percent reduction in property tax revenues, Morales’ office projects a budget reduction of $43.4 million. Last August, the system approved its first tax increase in over five years to balance the 2010-11 budget.
- Gwinnett County is anticipating a revenue shortfall of about $75 million, though a recommended budget won’t be finalized until late March. Anticipated cost-saving measures include cuts in school staffing allotments, continued hiring freeze at the district level and more division/operational cuts at the central office of at least 5 percent. No layoffs of full-time workers is anticipated.
- Cobb County, the state’s second largest district, was originally expecting a $20 million to $35 million gap, but new estimates put the figure closer to $40 million to $50 million, district spokesman Jay Dillon said. The district is planning for a shorter 175-day school year, five employee furlough days and no salary increases. They don’t anticipate teaching positions will be cut. The district plans to present the board a draft budget in late April or early May.
- Unlike other districts, DeKalb officials said they do not expect a shortfall due to deep cuts made in previous years. They also plan to cancel furlough days for some workers and cut back the number of furlough days for other workers.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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106 comments Add your comment
PatDowns
March 10th, 2011
2:57 am
So how do you propose the school systems make up for the shortfalls, Maureen? Raise taxes? Rework pension plans? Increase medical copays? Cut bloated mid/upper level paper pushing bureaucrats? Please, your opinion as the AJC’s “Get Schooled” expert blogger.
Tired Teacher
March 10th, 2011
5:43 am
Notice carefully that as more of the fine arts that are eliminated in our schools, the lower all of the other test scores go. It has been proven in reliable data that the study of fine arts enhance learning in the other disciplines. We need to educate our children and not merely train them.
ScienceTeacher671
March 10th, 2011
5:53 am
Yet I heard on the news yesterday that state tax revenues are up considerably over last year’s…
Tucker Guy
March 10th, 2011
6:05 am
@PatDowns, I live in Dekalb County and I can only speak to our school system, but we could cut the waste in the administration and balance the budget. (not really, but it seems like it)
Dekalb County is paying the legal fees for the former administrators who stole from the school system. That is the level of logic at which the school board is operating.
Just the other day the school board rejected a plan that would save over 15 million dollars a year for one that would save around 12 million.
I don’t understand why they think money is free to them, but the teachers have to suffer.
Elizabeth
March 10th, 2011
6:11 am
Teachers and students have had to “do more with less” since Sonny Perdue became governer. I don’t know how many more miracles I can perform. But I do know that, as Tired Teacher said, that art amd music do make a difference in test scores. And cutting counselors means that children who need help through difficult situations will have no resource. And I do mean that they will have no resource. I cannot take on the jobs of these people, particularly counselors. I am not trained for this nor do I have time. I am too busy teaching the test. And if Clayton County cuts art and music positions ( my niece teaches art in Clayton County), then media center services will be cut again because art and music teachers have been using their planning time to help shelve books in the media centers where parapros were cut last year. Media specialists at the elementary level teach classes every day. Will they be able to continue to do so now? It has also been demonstrated that schools with strong and active media centers also affect test scores.
I can’t do this kind of “more with less”. In times when the state had RESERVE FUNDS, PERDUE WAS STILL CUTTING EDUCATION TO FUND HIS PET PROJECTS. There is no more “more” for most teachers. Who will be the biggest losers? Students, of course. Not only now but when the economy picks up and teachers have other choices. Watch the exit numbers then. Many are already looking. I am one of them.
MS Man
March 10th, 2011
6:35 am
I think it is essential to talk about the metro districts differently than the rest of GA as well. I am stunned that a district like APS can have a budget of 589 million and serve 50,000 students and feel the pinch, but a district like Henry can serve 40,000 students and have a budget of less than 300 million. It would seem that APS is getting nearly 2x as much money to serve only 10,000 more kids. It is frustrating when districts across GA are struggling to get enough money to pay salaries for teachers, but then APS has this astonishingly huge amount of money and gets no results. It is these examples that make researchers say that more money doesn’t help schools get better performance. I know my school could use some money to buy copy paper, wax for the floors, and maybe a modern computer or two for kids to use. I would be really interested to see a chart from Maureen that put total annual budgets with number of students of served up for us. I know that the per pupil expenditure charts are supposed to show the same thing, but those are misleading. You may say that we spend about 7500 per child in GA on average, but the average is a misleading statistic. I would prefer to see the specifics of annual budgets and number of kids served and then compare. If the numbers are right, Henry must be doing something more fiscally responsible with its budget.
Kteacher
March 10th, 2011
6:42 am
Maureen-I always thought PE was a federal mandate. Is this not the case? We always joke that 2 things will always happen at school (elementary)-kids will go to PE and we will eat lunch!
Gunluvr
March 10th, 2011
6:43 am
Finally, the money shortages have hit home and reigning in and eliminating unnecessary school programs has started. If the parents are so upset with their children losing their art classes do what the rest of us do; pay a private tutor or go the route that most athletic programs have gone, pay to play; if it’s that important to you.
Sounds_Fishy
March 10th, 2011
6:43 am
“No layoffs of full-time workers is anticipated.” So says Gwinnett…but hundreds are “displaced.” Where are they going? Last year there were “no layoffs,” but teachers with good evaluations were non-renewed for “performance concerns.” No one could tell them what those concerns were, though. Too bad people believe what they read in the paper instead of digging around for the truth.
How Do they Do It
March 10th, 2011
6:51 am
Build numerous boat ramps around the state, fly helicopters from city to city, open the closed swimming pools, build a 4 lane highway to Reynolds plantation, build Atlantic Station . . . all the while draining education funds. Georgia is sure to remain on the bottom in education for ever.
Goal Digger, Ph.D
March 10th, 2011
6:53 am
““I don’t see a way of saving a five-day school week and arts and music at the same time,” said Clayton Superintendent Edmond Heatley.”
Cut some of the fat at the central office. Some of their salaries are equal to that of 2 or 3 teachers.
“No layoffs of full-time workers is anticipated.” So says Gwinnett…but hundreds are “displaced.” Where are they going?”
*Lightbulb*
Cherokee
March 10th, 2011
7:14 am
Art, music and PE are not core subjects, no matter how much we love them. Start a local co-op and get them done in an extracurricular setting.
jarvis
March 10th, 2011
7:16 am
That school system is a nightmare. I urge all parents to move out of Clayton County.
Dr NO
March 10th, 2011
7:16 am
Couselors and para-pros…absolutely. YEEAAAHHH!!!
Inman Park Boy
March 10th, 2011
7:37 am
If it is not the positions you mention, then it is regular classroom teachers, i.e., math, reading, science, etc. All classes are important, but some are more important than others. But there is a deeper problem, that being the insanely high cost of education now. Much of that is due, I believe, to unrealistic federal paperwork flowing from the useless “No Child Left Behind” laws and the armies of bureaucrats (local, state, federal) who have to be hired to keep up with it all. Simply nonesense!
JW
March 10th, 2011
7:38 am
Elizabeth’s comments at 6:11 are right on the mark. If I hear one more politician or bureaucrat tell teachers to “do more with less” I think I’ll scream and/or puke – especially as those same politicians increase their own staff numbers and staffs’ salaries.
Unfortunately, it is time for more than just the classroom teachers to make sacrifices when it comes to education cuts. There comes a time when folks need expect to “get less with less.” Maybe then parents and voters might wake up to what is really going on in Georgia (but that might just be overly optimistic).
Inman Park Boy
March 10th, 2011
7:39 am
By the way, I heard that the budget for the U. S. Department of Education for the next fiscal year is $69 BILLION! Do you think local school systems might use that money better, more wisely? Yep, me too.
atlmom
March 10th, 2011
7:43 am
here here cherokee! In much of the rest of the world, they focus on the core subjects in their schools, and school days are shorter than here. Yet, they are beating us. Hmmm…
They do math, science, social studies english. The parents (yes, I know) give them extra if they want.
So – um, we can’t teach math/reading at all – why do we need to focus on the arts? I would love it if they could keep it (my kid has orchestra in his school, it’s GREAT, but decatur schools don’t have music – yet they are supposedly pretty good). I would love for them to have arts, etc, but if they can’t read, what’s the point?
Of course, my solution would be to get rid of at least half the administrators who aren’t adding much of anything. I’ve been saying that for probably 10 years. Let the teachers teach, they don’t need city/county/state/AND federal rules to follow. They, um, have teaching credentials, let them teach. And, um, if you get rid of many administrators, you could probably pay the teachers MORE which is the right thing to do – and you could do it even in this economy.
atlmom
March 10th, 2011
7:49 am
Inman park boy: um, the federal govt should just get rid of the Dept of Ed. It doesn’t do anything good, and only makes us more dependent on the federal govt.
East Cobb Parent
March 10th, 2011
7:56 am
Do we really need all the area supervisors, counselors in ES and MS? . Cobb has a lot of Central Office Bloat. I would like to see that they start there when trying to balance the budget. Most of us knew the 20 – 35 million was not accurate. It will be another tough budget year. I only hope Cobb doesn’t follow last year’s poor example of not renewing contracts and losing some of the best teachers.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta
March 10th, 2011
8:10 am
How often do public school systems bring in competent, disinterested, out-of-state organizations to perform comprehensive performance audits? How often are the results of such audits released to the media? How often are the recommendations of such audits implemented?
By the way, SACS does not qualify as a competent, disinterested, out-of-state organization. If you’ve been in some of the school systems it accredits, you understand why.
RJ
March 10th, 2011
8:11 am
Actuallly @atlmom, if a kid can learn to read music, they will definitely improve their reading and math skills. Also, you can’t compare us to other countries. I can assure you they don’t have the same issues we do.
Put the money where it should go
March 10th, 2011
8:11 am
So why are art and music extracurricular? These are two of the most thriving industries in the United States, even if we look at graphic art and media production. Simply shows you how this world is reduced to thinking of “skills” as being a paper pusher.
James Palmer in SE ATL
March 10th, 2011
8:16 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/04/arts/design/04stud.html
Interesting article that describes a 2000 study that concluded that arts education did not improve students’ overall performance (to paraphrase from the first paragraph). Yet, the study’s authors still make a very forceful argument that arts education should continue to be a priority–regardless of its supposed affect on student achievement in other areas.
I have to say that this is an argument I can agree with. Arts education DOES indeed have a benefit to students–irrespective of their performance in other areas. It promotes critical and creative thinking and encourages students to solve problems using a different part of their brain. To me, this is exactly the flip-side to the “teach-to-the-test” formula that so many schools seem to have adopted. And since critical thinking and creative problem-solving aren’t championed as a part of the “core” curriculum, students are left without a way to stretch those very important mental muscles.
Regarding the financial angle… Certainly the financial argument is persuasive and I can see the value in parents/communities creating co-ops for arts education as a supplement. Still, I worry about the message it sends to students who tend to be more creatively-inclined. Whenever students see schools cutting arts and music as a way to cut “waste,” what is the message being communicated. That placing value on the arts is “wasteful?” That because they might be more inclined to be artistic that those interests don’t have merit or value because the school has labeled them expendable?? It’s just troubling to me–especially when you consider that there might be some more “creative” ways to trim money from other areas (central office staff?) before people IMMEDIATELY look to cutting the arts.
DeKalb Educated
March 10th, 2011
8:18 am
If you look at many of the large urban school budgets, you will see a huge amount that could go to having a first class educational system. Yet, in DeKalb, money is wasted on “Coaches” and “PR” and way too many legal fees for corrupt employees. The past and current BOE has used the school system as a hiring program for family and friends. Many of the high paid staff do not even put a toe in a classroom and have no impact at all upon educational achievement of our students. In the land of obesity and diabetes, we could use PE everyday in our schools. ART, MUSIC, DRAMA – all enhance our children’s education and enjoyment of school. For many schools, the PTA will step in and raise money. We did that at my children’s schools for Spanish and French instruction. For schools with limited PTA funding and resources, that won’t happen and the gulf of inequity will grow. Then those without will complain of racism and elitism rather than go out and raise the funds. They will look to the BOE to rectify the situation. The BOE will not do the hard work and cut Central Office staff or legal fees to corrupt former employees and our children will once again (along with teachers) get the short end of the financial stick.
Call it like it is
March 10th, 2011
8:20 am
Sorry Art, Music, PE, while they may be nice and its great to have an understanding of them, there not going to get you a job. If your child has an interest in these things, then you will need to find the resources for them. In reference to counselors I never met one in highschool that gave me any kind of information that I couldnt have obtained myself. I dont want to see anybody get canned, but cuts have to be made.
If you really want to stir the pot, how about we go old school, people “save” for college or get a job and we put the HOPE money back into our schools. And let the flame wars begin.
momofboys
March 10th, 2011
8:40 am
My son’s class sizes jumped dramatically this year in APS. He went from 16 kids last year to 25 this year. His gifted class went from 9 last year to 20 this year. His teachers are beyond stretched. I hate to see what we will be facing next year.
A Conservative Voice
March 10th, 2011
8:41 am
•Unlike other districts, DeKalb officials said they do not expect a shortfall due to deep cuts made in previous years. They also plan to cancel furlough days for some workers and cut back the number of furlough days for other workers.
Yeah, right……If you believe this, George Strait has some Ocean Front Property in Arizona he’d like to sell you
atlmom
March 10th, 2011
8:46 am
@east cobb parent: Seriously! why is the first thing they do cut teachers or put them on furlough? CUT THE ADMINS. If you don’t see a student, you could be on the chopping block. The teachers are the ones who are actually with the kids…
atlmom
March 10th, 2011
8:52 am
@rj: oh, yes, I am aware. but we can’t teach math right…so maybe we need to go back to the basics.
Momofboys: I’ve been looking at some of this and from what I see, class size doesn’t seem to be that big of a factor.
I think a bigger factor is being able to get the worst kids OUT of the classroom – i.e., the ones who are disrupting everything so no one can learn…and I mean put them in a military style place, not just out on the streets. it has come to this and we need to take responsibility for doing it.
old school doc
March 10th, 2011
8:55 am
I agree that these are not core subjects, but I am still sad that they will be cut. Obesity will continue to be a huge issue (pardon the pun) as physical activity in the schools is not encouraged. I still wonder how we can afford to subsidize 50 mil/year to our state private schools under HB1133, and in the same breath ask public school teachers to yet again to do more with less. It is shameful.
Joy in Teaching
March 10th, 2011
8:59 am
@ momofboys You are actually complaining about your son being in a class of 20 students? And there was ony 9 in his class last year? I thought I had it easy with my smallest class only having 29.
Wow. Just….wow.
Metro Coach
March 10th, 2011
9:02 am
How about cutting foreign language? Our kids need to learn to speak English before they learn to speak French. Let them take foreign language classes in college. Yes, I know its a “requirement” for getting into college, but that can be dealt with as well. There’s no reason to force high school kids, who can’t speak or write proper English, to learn another language. Add that to the extra admins and the central office paper pushers, and you’ve really got some savings.
☺☻ Black & white smiley faces
March 10th, 2011
9:14 am
Art is not really necessary. It won’t prepare your kids for dealing with the real world, prepare them for college, or help them get a lucrative job.
It’s fun, I’m sure, but not a priority.
Lynn43
March 10th, 2011
9:22 am
Call it like it is, You are evidently not aware of the millions of people who have great jobs and make a fantastic living in the Arts. Yes, these studies will get you a job if that is where your talents lie. How interesting do you think movies would be without sound effects or music? Almost (maybe all) homes are decorated with some sort of art. It may be a reprint, but someone painted the original. What about photography? Think about newspapers with no pictures.
I could continue naming examples. I have had an incredible career as a musician whose flame for the Arts was fanned and nurtured in public schools. I have several college degrees in music, and, one more thing, my school system will not be losing Fine Arts or any other teachers. Why? Because I am the Chairman of the Board, and I love teachers and students whatever subject area they are in.
Teacher
March 10th, 2011
9:26 am
In the past two years, teachers have had to increase what they pay for healthcare and deductibles and co -pays are at an all time high. Class sizes are 35-40 in a high school. When we cut the arts and PE, we stop catering to an entire population of students. In the high school setting, arts programs or PE are some of the reasons that some students come to school and are successful. It is their hook to learning. Teachers where I teach have had to triple their after school duties and triple the time that they work them. So 2 3 hour duties have turned into 3 6 hour duties. We already have to do counseling duties because the counselors cannot. I do not know what the solution is but I can say that teachers are at a breaking point. I have seen several good teachers leave the profession because of all of this. I do not know how we can do more with less since we are at a breaking point as it is. PE and Art and Counselors are a necessary part of the school. There also have been studies that students who take 3 or more years of a foreign language score higher on both the verbal and mathematic portion of the SAT and ACT. When you cut these types of programs, you cut your test scores. There are subjects that help to develop certain part of our brain to make it more effective for learning Math and English. Art, Music, French, and Spanish can all help with this development. There has to be a better solution. I am as always perplexed as to how we can have so many people working at the district offices. It seems to me that that would be a good place to start to cut.
HS Math Teacher
March 10th, 2011
9:26 am
When school systems have cut deeply enough to consider letting PE & Art Teachers go, maybe it’s time to consider raising local taxes.
atlmom
March 10th, 2011
9:27 am
@metro coach: *sigh* unfortunately, you’re probably right, even if you might be being sarcastic. They start a language in my kid’s school in first grade, and he’s in third right now – so only 1/2 hour a day, four days per week, and he’s got an incredibly good grasp of the language. Learning when they are young is infinitely better than when they get older. Seriously – learning in college, they might never become fluent, but my son can speak spanish NOW.
Art is necessary, but when you can’t read or do simple arithmetic, well, something’s gotta give. My son uses art to help him deal with his feelings, and let me tell you, it is much preferable to him having a tantrum. He’s incredibly creative, and needs that outlet. Yes, at 5. I’m a huge advocate of art. but again, when our kids don’t know anything about history, perhaps they should spend more time on it.
atlmom
March 10th, 2011
9:31 am
teacher: how about getting rid of more than 1/2 the administrators. that would help y’all out and give you more money and then we could hire back more teachers.
What can we do?
March 10th, 2011
9:32 am
When will it be the time we take action?
Ed Johnson
March 10th, 2011
9:51 am
“Arts Education for Minority Children Drops”
http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2011/03/09/23arts.h30.html
Just think of the degradation in what it means to be a human being that’s to come. Just think how especially “minority” children in APS will be further disconnected from their humanness. Already, some APS students know themselves as “urban” or “African American” rather than as human beings.
momofboys
March 10th, 2011
9:51 am
@ Joy in Teaching: I said his gifted class went from 9 to 20. His normal class jumped to 25. The larger number in the Challenge class has without a doubt affected the quality of the program this year. It has been very watered down and the teacher is stressed out. His 4th grade teacher is doing a beautiful job with the larger class size and I don’t think it has affected him at all in there.
A Conservative Voice
March 10th, 2011
10:05 am
@momofboys
March 10th, 2011
8:40 am
My son’s class sizes jumped dramatically this year in APS. He went from 16 kids last year to 25 this year. His gifted class went from 9 last year to 20 this year. His teachers are beyond stretched. I hate to see what we will be facing next year.
How in the world do you manage to cope with this situation, momofboys??? I bet you’re just pulling your hair out all the time……lady, you need to come back from la la land and face reality…..you’re living in a fantasy world…..I would suggest you see a professional
Metro Coach
March 10th, 2011
10:19 am
atlmom-I’m serious about everything I posted. I still fail to see why we teach our students, at any age, foreign languages. English might as well be foreign to most of them. They cannot, or will not, speak it or write it correctly. The number of admins needs to be cut, and most certainly the number of central office people, but so do foreign language departments. I’m all for keeping art, music, and pe, those are important outlets for many students, but foreign language should be a choice, not a requirement for graduation or for college entrance. Who gives a rip if a kid speaks fluent Russian if he can’t write an essay correctly in English, the language spoken in the country he in which he lives and works. I hate for teachers to lose their jobs, but foreign language needs to go.
atlmom
March 10th, 2011
10:27 am
@metro coach: I totally agree re: knowing english. No question about it. But knowing a foreign language is extremely important. Probably shouldn’t be a requirement for a high school degree, though. however, the colleges can require whatever they’d like. If you want to go there…you have to have them. Not much the high schools can do about it. In my house, growing up, I was required to take a foreign language. That was my parents requirement. I do think it really helps the kids (it is said to be like music in that it helps math skills…i sucked at foreign language, but I think it might have had to do with how it was taught, I don’t know – and I’m pretty good in math). I hated foreign language…and i didn’t take it my senior year since my parents didn’t force me to. But it is extremely helpful because these kids are going to need to know more languages in order to compete in this world. AND it’s easier to teach to children. AND they learn so much more than a foreign language – they learn about another culture, too.
Curious @ Edmond Heatley
March 10th, 2011
10:34 am
Isn’t this the same problem that Edmond Heatley had in Chino Valley, California? He was in a heap of mess over budgetary problems, right? Was trying to close lots of schools, right? Didn’t John Trotter and MACE warn the Clayton County Board of Education about Edmond Heatley but the board was determined to follow Glenn Brock’s recommendation on hiring him? Weren’t board members Alieka Anderson and Pam Adamson singing Heatley’s praises? I am curious.
It doesn’t appear that the people, parents, or teachers of Clayton County are happy campers now. Can’t we blame this on John Trotter, AJC? He warned the people in Atlanta about the systematic cheating and abject corruption in that system…way before the traditional media got involved. Same thing in the DeKalb School System, calling it a “gangsta school system” on TV…again, way before the traditional media got involved. He warned the different school boards in Clayton County about hiring Barbara Pulliam out of Minnesota, about hiring John Thompson from stints in Tulsa and Pittsburgh, and about hiring Edmond Heatley from Chino Valley, California. I guess he was right again. “He”? What do you mean? I’m not Bob Dole. I am John Trotter, and now you know the rest of the story. Ha!
Maureen Downey
March 10th, 2011
10:39 am
@Curious, Given what Dr. Heatley walked into and the high foreclosure rate and the collapse of the housing market in the county, I don’t think we can blame him for Clayton’s financial crisis.
The Times had a story about the wealthy enclave of Bronxville, N.Y., where the average annual property tax bill is $43,000. Even that millionaire’s haven is now struggling with school budget cuts.
Maureen
Hans and Franz
March 10th, 2011
10:58 am
PE should be the last thing that a school ever cuts out. Too many obese kiddies, too many girlie men that need to be pumped up.
Dr. John Trotter
March 10th, 2011
11:01 am
Oh, yes, by the way, I warned the Clayton Board of Education about hiring the late William (Bill) Chavis in 2003 as superintendent, but the board members would not listen to me…and yet I was supposed to be the Puppet Master or Svenghali at the time. I didn’t think that Dr. Chavis was capable of running the school system. He wasn’t. (I liked Dr. Chavis and he was a good man, but he just wasn’t cut out to be the superintendent, in my opinion.) We have to be fair. But, when that Clayton Board of Education hired Dr. Chavis, I was blamed immediately. Who was I for? Dr. Jim Williams, the classy Deputy Superintendent in DeKalb at the time. Did the DeKalb Board of Education choose him when Dr. Freeman retired? No, they chose a man by the name of Crawford Lewis. I met Dr. Lewis the very first day that he worked at the DeKalb Central Office. No comparison between him and Dr. Williams. Dr. Williams is a man of integrity and gravitas. Perhaps this is why the DeKalb County Board of Education did not want to hire him. He could not be manipulated…like Crawford Lewis apparently was able to be manipulated. ‘
Damn! I’m good at this stuff, right?! Maybe the school boards ought to call me and get my take on things after paying thousands and thousands of dollars to search firms (and Glenn Brock) to give them the latest “savior” like Edmond Heatley. Ha! Search firms have an incentive to unload one of its “finds” (from the Broad Foundation) to the naive school boards.
I hate to be right so much, but I suppose that it just comes with the territory. It’s part of my shtick, my public persona. I enjoy seeing school board members, educrats, and partisans getting so mad and irritated with me — even on this blog! I feel like Dusty Rhodes wrestling as a heel with Dick Murdoch as the Texas Outlaws back in the early 1970s! It’s nothing like watching a good bad guy work the audience. The marks work themselves up into a frenzy. Ha! Good morning, fellow reprobates!
RJ
March 10th, 2011
11:05 am
“Sorry Art, Music, PE, while they may be nice and its great to have an understanding of them, there not going to get you a job.”
@call it like it is, that is far from true. I have several friends that perform professionally as a career. I also have friends that are music therapists and engineers. But this isn’t about creating professional musicians, artists and athletes as much as it is about providing students with a well-rounded education. In the end, this generation of kids will suffer.
Trotter Sounds like Martin
March 10th, 2011
11:11 am
Except Trotter is right
oldtimer
March 10th, 2011
11:12 am
As far as PE…Taking kids out for 30 minutes with balls, jump,ropes, frisbees, and some running games is easy. Many Ele. school teachers did this for years as organized PE…more that once a week is a new thing. Art and music are harder to do without training.
I always found kids played harder with just a track and a ball. It is amazing what they can create on their own.
Dr. John Trotter
March 10th, 2011
11:25 am
Maureen: I am not blaming Heatley for all of the financial mess in Clayton County. I lay most of this blame at the feet of the former Chairperson Ericka Davis and the former Vice Chairperson Rod Johnson, along with their cohort, Commission Chairman Eldrin Bell, who were apparently meeting with the Zeus of Alpharetta, Mark Elgart, on a regular basis seeking his intervention into Clayton County apparently because they, quite frankly, were losing political power on the school board. This is what caused Clayton County to go into a tailspin from which it has not recovered.
Yes, Clayton County was a wasteland when Edmond Heatley arrived. But, if I recall correctly, Heatley promised the Clayton County School Board that he was not going to bring an entourage (or anyone, for that matter) from California. It doesn’t look that he has kept that promise. Rather than doing away with Art, P. E., etc., he needs to slash — and I mean draconian slashes — the bureaucracy at the Central Offices. To set an example, he needs to cut his own pay, but I hear that he responded to that notion with a flippant response that this would not save enough money. Right.
TimeOut
March 10th, 2011
11:26 am
We could require that parents handle their children’s education via Virtual School. We would need ‘virtually’ no facilities, no behavior management systems, no ‘central offices’, etc. However, one parent would have to be able to earn enough money to support the family because the children won’t be completing school work on that computer for long if both Mom and Dad are elsewhere, trying to earn enough money to keep them all in a safe, clean neighborhood. Or…………
We could increase responsibilities of teaching staff through use of their summers for those non-teaching duties for which one could wait reasonably until that time to accomplish. We could them eliminate those positions with those duties. We could give administrative disciplinary authority to teachers and eliminate even more positions. We could require that parents pay for texts as they do in other countries that also have citizens struggling to pay the bills or scraping by on welfare and medicaid. We could eliminate all extra-curricular activities, insisiting that other institutions such as the family, church, and civic organizations take on these responsibilities. Or……we can continue to insist that our schools be all things to all people…..or at least give lip service to same……..
Miguel
March 10th, 2011
11:47 am
Want to save millions? Cut middle school sports entirely. There is absolutely no need for middle school level basketball in Gwinnett County, for example. There are already recreation leagues for basketball as well as travelling basketball teams. There is absolutely no need for this duplication. Along with basketball, you can also do without the cheerleaders and step teams who perform for the basketball crowds. This would cut all the costs of the programs, the equipment, the uniforms, the coaches and the cheerleader coaches. Talk about waste in education? This is the perfect example. Leave music and the arts alone. There are direct links between academic excellence and art/music experience.
Counties, like Gwinnett could also cut millions by cutting back on the useless testing, testing, and more testing. These tests do absolutely nothing to prepare our students for the real world. Trivial Pursuit is a great game, but useless in teaching our future leaders. Why can’t education leaders see the forest for the trees?
Dance puppets!
March 10th, 2011
12:04 pm
This is working out great. Continue to pit the people against the educators while we laugh all the way to the bank. Hopefully no one’s looking.
Dance puppets!
March 10th, 2011
12:06 pm
re: Gwinnett. The only county in the state that uses the $3 million a year Gateway, needlessly preventing several people from graduating on time. Gwinnett, the leader of the pack (HA)
CobbParent
March 10th, 2011
12:19 pm
My son plays two sports and two instruments – none of them through his middle school. For one of the sports he is on a “junior” team affiliated with the high school team, but we get no financial assistance from the schools. He wants to play sports, so I gotta pay the fees….and drive to practices and games, buy equipment, pay for extra ice time and batting cage time, etc etc. Same with music…buying instruments and paying for lessons. My responsibility, not the school’s.
HStchr
March 10th, 2011
12:24 pm
I’m not hearing any system talk about reducing high school sports. I think they are an important part of school and reach out to a lot of kids, but if we’re all going to have to cut back, so should the sports programs. But heavens no, the good old boys at the gold dome wouldn’t dare cut that! Kids who have art and music do in fact score better on standardized tests. Those who have football, not so much.
Metro Coach
March 10th, 2011
12:27 pm
Oh boy, out comes the “cut middle school sports” crowd. They did that in Paulding County, it didn’t make one dime’s difference in the budget shortfall. Middle school sports don’t make up 1/100th of a school system’s budget, the supplements are minimal, as are the costs for equipmentand other things.
Metro Coach
March 10th, 2011
12:31 pm
HStchr- that’s because outside of coaching supplements, high school sports are self funded. We pay for officials, transportation, uniforms, equipment, laundry detergent, pretty much everything but the lights, and since our gate money goes into the “general fund” we probably end up paying a good bit of the electric bill too.
Ashley
March 10th, 2011
12:36 pm
When I attended elementary school P.E. was mandated everyone from 1st grade thru 6th had recess (thats what we called it back then). I can honestly say that little 30 minute break re-energized the students. It also promoted social skills and sportsmanship, which seems to be lacking in most schools today. Come to think of it obesity didn’t seem to be that prevalent either. The only exercise kids get now is their thumbs. Don’t remember counselors or music teacher, that came when we were in junior high.Our parents had a way of counseling us when we lost our focus or were disreputive in class Only someone over 50 knows what I mean by that last entry.
East Cobb Parent
March 10th, 2011
12:58 pm
Cobb doesn’t have organized sports associated with the ES and MS. I do think there may be money to make if HS sports were “out sourced”. Most of the teams are self supporting by the parents/booster, so raise the fees slightly and let the teams “rent” the fields. I still feel the largest gains are to be had by seriously examine the Central Office. If you remove the unnecessary and often redundant functions at central we may not need to cut a single teacher, sports, music, art or PE program. PLEASE COBB examine Central Office FIRST for a change. Does Sanderson still have 3 admins?
As a side comment, bring back discipline so teachers can teach those whose parents send to learn. @Ashley not quite over 50, but I know what you mean and have had a few of those “discussions” with my own children from time to time.
RJ
March 10th, 2011
12:59 pm
@Cobb Parent, the music lessons you pay for are not the same as the instruction that a student receives in a general music class. Students learn more than simply how to play an instrument. They learn history when they study various musicians, math when they study composition, foreign language when they study tempo and dynamic markings, science when they study how the voice is used and how instrument sounds are created, physical education when they study how the body is used to play an instrument or sing a song. Students develop creativity skills when allowed to compose their own songs. There is nothing “extra” about these courses and it is sad that these students will miss out on receiving a well-rounded education. For the record, I not only teach music, but I also pay for my kids to get private lessons and participate in recreational sports. There is a difference in what I pay for and what is taught at school. I want my kids to be able to do more than just write well and perform mathematical equations. There is more to life than the three R’s.
momofboys
March 10th, 2011
1:10 pm
@ A Conservative Voice: Thanks so much for suggesting that I see a professional. I must really need one since I have no idea why you would tell me I am living in a fantasy world simply for sharing the dramatic jump in class size we have experienced in one year’s time in our elementary school due to budget cuts.
Dekalbite
March 10th, 2011
1:13 pm
Every nurse, PE teacher, art teacher, music teacher, counselor, gifted teacher, Assistant Principal, special ed teacher, security guard, HVAC employee, parent facilitator, “coach”, etc. you hire means one less math, science, language arts and social studies teacher. If you have 4,000 of those employees, you will have 4,000 less teachers to teach the basics that is the reason our school systems exist.
I would say make draconian cuts in the non-teaching positions first. DCSS has almost 60% of their personnel who never teach a single student so there are tens of millions to be saved that way. If that doesn’t wring enough money to balance the budget and decrease content area class sizes to reasonable levels, then begin cutting teaching positions that do not teach math, science, social studies, and language arts – you know those – the ONLY subjects that students are required to master in school. I couldn’t speak for any other school system, but looking at the sheer number of cost of those 60% of non-teaching DCSS employees, balancing the budget and decreasing class sizes in the content area should be easy if our administrative team and BOE just concentrated on that area.
yeah right!
March 10th, 2011
1:51 pm
I love all of the “cut everything but the teachers” crowd. I would love to see a school run only by teachers. Ha, who is going to clean, see the sick kiddies, not to mention ensure that all of the teachers have their materials and get their paychecks. you might as well suggest that a hospital be staffed only with Dr’s and nurses. or that a restaurant be staffed only by the chef and the waiters. that is all that is needed. Only those who deal directly with the customers or the children. that will last until the teachers trashcan is full and there is no one around to empty it. Yes cuts need to be made but please don’t show your lack of business acumen by spouting off the first things that come to your mind
Toto: Exposing naked body scanners...
March 10th, 2011
2:11 pm
This is good news for the visual arts. Ever since “Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain” was published, drawing instruction in public schools has become worthless or nonexistent. Home schoolers, however, have an abundance of excellent “fine arts” classes at reasonable prices. Why? BECAUSE HOME SCHOOLERS UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF DEVELOPING THIS PART OF A STUDENT’S BRAIN.
How to solve the problem?
Go Egyptian. Home school en masse.
Dekalbite@yeah right!
March 10th, 2011
2:34 pm
I love all of the “cut everything but the teachers” crowd. I would love to see a school run only by teachers….Yes cuts need to be made but please don’t show your lack of business acumen by spouting off the first things that come to your mind”
Actually, I have used my business acumen to “run the numbers”. Can you show me where my numbers are incorrect? Can you cite your sources that would say my numbers are incorrect?
No one says to cut every job but teachers. You must be a non-teaching support person. In DCSS we have the “incredible shrinking teacher phenomenon”. We have added thousands of employees, yet we are at virtually the same level of teachers that we were at a decade ago. No wonder only around 43% of our employees are teachers and only 24% are Content Area teachers.
Do you know how many of DCSS 15,000+ personnel actually teach math, science, social studies, and language arts? I know because I used an Excel program to calculate this – approximately 3,700. Only 24% of our employees are totally responsible for the core mission of our students. You want to know why our schools fail? This is the reason.
If you want kids to learn math, science, social studies, and language, you have to – ugh – teach it. I think an imbalance of 3,700 employees teaching the only content that is required for students while the other 11,000+ do not have the responsibility for student performance is a recipe for disaster for our students.
Your hospital analogy is flawed. Most of the personnel in hospitals directly give care to patients – nurses aides, nurses, doctors, therapists, etc. Generally, the custodial and cafeteria workers are contracted outsourced workers.
I got my figures from the 2009 state salary and travel audit and the Ga. DOE website DCSS (see the links below). Why don’t you do some number crunching? You may not like what I have to say, but these numbers don’t lie:
Total DeKalb Schools employees: 15,500+
Admin and Support non-teaching personnel: 8,800 (57%)
Teachers and Media Specialists: 6,700+ (43%)
(Sources:
DCSS Superintendent’s FAQ page
http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/superintendent/files/3C2819BD7CDE4BA6B8BE01FC4A39343C.pdf
Georgia salary and travel audit (Click on Salary and Travel Reinbursements)
http://www.open.georgia.gov/
DeKalb Report Card (click on Personnel and Fiscal)
http://public.doe.k12.ga.us/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=102&CountyId=644&T=1&FY=2010)
Numbers of DCSS teachers NOT grade level teachers or content area teachers: 2981 (around 3,000)
This includes:
Library Media Specialists:
161
Special Area Teachers:
1369
(Special Education Adapted PE, Pre-K Sp.Ed., Psycho-Ed Sp.Ed., Sp. Ed Interrelated, Sp. Ed. Specialist, Sp. Ed. Autistic, Sp. Ed. Emotional Behavior, Sp. Ed. Hearing Impaired, Teacher of Mild Intellectual, Teacher of Moderate Intellectual, Teacher of Orthopedic Impairment, Teacher of Other Health Impairment, Teacher Of Severely Intell. Impaired, Teacher of specific Learning Disability, Teacher of Visually Impaired, Speech –Language Pathologist, Adapted PE teacher:
1,369
Other Instructional Providers:
42
Instructional Specialists (Art, PE, Music, Band, Orchestra elementary teachers):
445
Gifted:
87
ESOL:
154
Early Intervention Specialists:
128
Instructional Coaches (America’s Choice Instructional Coaches, Literacy Coaches and Graduation Coaches):
80
Exploratory Teachers:
46
Hospital Homebound:
1
Vocational Teachers:
207
Related Vocational Teachers:
11
World Languages in high school and Connections teachers in middle school
250 (estimated)
For those people who don’t want to do the math, take 6,700 teachers and subtract 3,000 “special teachers” – those who do not have responsibility for making AYP – and you will get 3,700 content area teachers – those personnel who are left to ensure our students make AYP. And people wonder why those content area teachers want to leave the classroom? Unfortunately, the students have no place to go.
*Since this was compiled DCSS has added numerous Instructional Coaches and Coordinators positions through the Office of School Improvement while they decreased the teaching positions around 100. But this gives you a rough idea of why our kids are jammed into the classrooms like sardines.
Mitch
March 10th, 2011
2:45 pm
Eliminate the outrageous MATH for everyone but those who need and can use it. Also we could cut out football and basketball. Unless we can find something really useful to teach in year twelve, just eliminate it.
Fine Arts
March 10th, 2011
2:52 pm
“Art, music and PE are not core subjects, no matter how much we love them. Start a local co-op and get them done in an extracurricular setting.”
Cheokee, I beg to differ. Art, music and PE ARE core subjects. check the NCLB law and you will see fine Arts is indeed a core academic subject!
@Dekalbite
March 10th, 2011
2:56 pm
“Actually, I have used my business acumen to “run the numbers”. Can you show me where my numbers are incorrect? Can you cite your sources that would say my numbers are incorrect? ”
You need to sharpen your accumen. Federal and state law will prohibit you from eliminating all SPED and ESOL teachers. Also, you apparently don’t know squat about how much administrative overhead there is in healthcare.
ArtsAdvocate
March 10th, 2011
3:03 pm
What is the difference between Exploratory and Instructional Specialist? Why not end the arts programs? Let’s give kids one more reason to drop out!
ArtsAdvocate
March 10th, 2011
3:04 pm
What’s the difference between Exploratory and Instructional Specialist? What not end the Arts programs? Let’s give kids another reason to drop out!
Tell it like it is, Sandra Scott!
March 10th, 2011
3:15 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTaIOl5Dcdo
Dekalbite@Fine Arts
March 10th, 2011
3:17 pm
So how responsible are you for students making AYP? I taught gifted for many years so I’m passionate about gifted ed, but I know that the school system could function without gifted where it could not function without the grade level and content area teachers. If you cut teachers, I’ve got to go with retaining the teachers that teach the core areas. Students must be proficient in the content areas to get a job. That’s the bottom line for public school systems and in truth for any school system.
Now could and should we cut in the admin and support level? Yes. Non-teaching personnel should experience deep cuts before teaching personnel. Cut, consolidate, and outsource admin and support personnel as much as possible – cut and consolidate positions by ask the remaining personnel to take on additional responsibilities – slash benefit costs by outsourcing – whatever it takes in the admin and support side. Only then should you touch the teaching personnel. Not because teachers are so “special”, but because the teachers’ environment is the students’ environment. If you overcrowd a teachers’ classroom, you overcrowd the students’ work space. If you leave the teacher less time to work with students, the students are the ones that suffer. If you create stress for the teacher, that stress will be passed along to the students.
There are only two groups of people in the physical classroom – the teacher and the students. Decisions should only pertain to what’s best for students. That’s the only reason for our school systems. Let’s play favorites here – let’s favor students.
Tell it like it is, Sandra Scott!
March 10th, 2011
3:32 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTaIOl5Dcdo
Representative Scott discusses the mess in Clayton County at the GABEO Convention. She rips into SACS, Mark Elgart, and Glenn Brock. It’s worth a watch! She’s plain spoken from the jump street. Indeed, she does remind one of Fannie Lou Hamer back in Mississippi in the 1960s. Hamer is a folk legend today.
Music Teacher
March 10th, 2011
3:38 pm
You miss the point. I use music to teach creativity and encourage students to learn to use both sides of their brain fluently, and equally. I use music to teach math skills, and reading fluency. My first and fourth grade teachers ask me to help cover the sound concepts in those science standards, and I gladly do so. History comes alive for students when they see how our country’s history is reflected in the culture’s music. I teach tolerance and respect through exploring world music and world cultures. Isn’t it great that the students learn to sing, read music, and play instruments while they learn “core subjects” through another modality? A 30 minute private lesson per week is just not quite the same experience. The arts are not an extra for the student who struggles – it is a window of opportunity.
Cindy Lutenbacher
March 10th, 2011
3:57 pm
Our state would save hundreds of millions of dollars by limiting the use of standardized tests (or, better, eliminating them). Independent research of decades has shown that these tests reveal two things: socio-economic status and specific test prep. They do not show learning, knowledge, ability, and any of the things that corporate and professional U.S. say they want, such as creativity, critical thinking, creative problem solving, teamwork, etc. They do not reveal learning or knowledge.
Music, p.e., art, second language learning…these subjects not only teach and enhance math and reading, but also nourish the skills/capacities that are most desired.
NCLB pushed massive testing, along with such losers as Reading First (which failed abysmally on nearly every measure), eating up billions of tax dollars in order to funnel said dollars to corporations such as McGraw-Hill. For reading, the research shows that tiny bits of explicit instruction coupled with a great selection of books and time for free reading do a much better job of teaching more kids to read. And they are more likely to become lifelong readers.
More teachers, more highly trained teachers, more room for excellent teachers to do what they know to do…these are where our dollars should go. Way past time to cut the garbage of the standardized tests and the mania of having to teach to the test. They failed miserably.
Eliminate Counselor Positions
March 10th, 2011
4:03 pm
I just had to add my own take on this. Can we please look to cut some of these school counselors, particularly in ES and MS? The ES we’re zoned for has 2.5 school counselors. Are you aware that these counselors take up 50 (that’s FIFTY) minutes of regular class time EVERY week to talk about feelings and good citizenship. When I went to school, we had 1 counselor that you could go to if you NEEDED to talk. The counselor did not take away instructional time from core subjects. Who thought that was a good idea?
And before anyone tells me that these counselors are needed, I say go ask for their list of topics for the year. I have asked several times and apparently it’s a trade secret. Wake up parents and find out what’s going on.
lovemyjob
March 10th, 2011
4:30 pm
displaced in Gwinnett with nowhere to go and nobody’s talking
Dekalbite@ Eliminate Counselor Positions
March 10th, 2011
5:02 pm
I agree.
DCSS has 245 counselors for an annual cost of $22,500,000 including benefits (calculated at 25%). That’s around $92,000 a year on average per counselor. Teachers make around $68,000 a year on average including benefits in DeKalb.
The other area that DCSS has that is totally redundant (counselors and social workers really should and in many instances probably are doing the same job functions) is the non-teaching area called Parent Centers. The Family Services Specialists (several are related to BOE members – remember former BOE member Zepora Roberts who threatened to slug a TV reporter when she asked about Ms. Roberts daughter who is one of these Family Services coordinators) staff the Parent Centers. There are 73 of them for a cost of around $4,400,000 in salary and benefits. This is a tough group to eliminate because they are “friends and family”.
Then there are the 22 Prevention/Intervention Specialists who cost $1,800,000 in salary and benefits. They are not certified teachers, and they mainly deal with teaching conflict resolution and bullying – yet another area that counselors should have responsibility for.
And lets’ not even get into the 90 Instructional coaches that cost DCSS around $9,000,000 a year in salary and benefits ($100,000 per coach a year). The Instructional coaches never teach a child.
In addition, we have 40+ Graduation Coaches that cost $3,000,000+ in salary and benefits. They never teach a child.
We also have 60+ Instructional supervisors who (of course) never teach a child and cost $7,000,000+ a year.
Lest you Clayton County people think this is only in DCSS, think again. You are not nearly as “fat” with non-teaching positions as DCSS, but you too have many of these positions. You have 112 Literacy “Coaches” costing $8,900,000 in salary and benefits. You have 45 Instructional and Vocational Coordinators that cost you $4,800,000 in salary and benefits a year. You have 29 Director who cost you $3,600,000+ a year.
Sources:
http://www.open.georgia.gov/
http://public.doe.k12.ga.us/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=102&CountyId=644&T=1&FY=2010
Eliminate Counselor Positions
March 10th, 2011
5:14 pm
To DeKalbite @Eliminate Counselor Positions:
Wow! I’ve not done near the research as you, but it already sickened me. And, BTW, I’m in Cobb County. Imagine what Gwinnett County and Cherokee County have. Somebody needs to compile all of this information. Maybe the AJC would actually do a little investigative reporting to see how much waste there really is. Hmmm…
momofboys
March 10th, 2011
5:16 pm
Music Teacher at 3:38 pm: I loved your post. Your students are lucky to have you.
Dekalbite@ Eliminate Counselor Positions
March 10th, 2011
5:31 pm
Cobb County is IMHO third in line in admin and support “excess”. DCSS being first and APS being second. Go to http://www.open.georgia.gov/ and click on Salaries and Travel Reimbursements. Accept their agreement page if that comes up. Now click on Organization and select Local Boards of Education. Use the drop down arrows to select Cobb County School District. Use the Export Option at the bottom of the page to export to a CSV file (Export Options). You can save the CSV Excel file and do all the sorts you want. In a matter of minutes you can see where Cobb spends its money. Why aren’t parents doing this in every county is a mystery to me.
Henry County Teacher
March 10th, 2011
6:33 pm
Walnut Creek Elementary admins are being paid over $100k to do nothing regarding Bulling. No discipline for bully, but victims are being harrassed. They pay should be cut by half.
fultonschoolsparent
March 10th, 2011
6:58 pm
There are a HUGE number of students who come to school every day just for those music, art, and PE classes. Cut them and you are cutting the heart out of elementary and middle school buildings. In the high school, they are the reason that a lot of students don’t drop out. These ARE core subjects! Just look around you – music, art, and PE are every where in our culture. When I look back on my school experience, I don’t remember the trigonometry or chemistry, I remember the music and art!! I still have friends I made in those areas and so do my children.
Ole Guy
March 10th, 2011
7:12 pm
I couldn’t agree more…YES, it’s bad that these programs have become the scapegoat of fiscal irresponsibility…YES, action must be taken…YES, these programs, important as they may be, could be considered superflous to the hard studies in the math disciplines, sciences, etc. YES YES YES!
What do you do when it rains? You break out the umbrella, get wet, or stay inside…YOU ADAPT TO THE SITUATION! What did the generation(s) of the so-called Sad 30s do? The generation which saved the world from tyranny, placed man upon the Moon and got him back home in time for the evening news with Walter Cronkite, etc, etc, etc. THEY ADAPTED! They didn’t cry piss and moan because times were tough. They managed to educate themselves, redirect their energies, and focus on goals.
Maybe, just maybe…if we stop feeling sorry for ourselves every time the poop hits the fan, we just might find ourselves half way to resolution.
TW
March 10th, 2011
7:21 pm
How do the Republicans reconcile being proud Americans while pissing on our country’s future?
I guess wiping their arse with the flag is easy after you’ve done it with The Bible.
Dekalbite@fultonschoolparent
March 10th, 2011
7:54 pm
For me it was Band. That was my passion. However, music and art are not Core subjects. It doesn’t matter if students come to school for ANY reason if we have Content areas teachers too overloaded to teach them.
That’s really the situation in many schools – particularly in low income areas. The Content area teachers are simply overwhelmed with their numbers of students, lack of discipline support, complete responsibility for achievement (while holding little authority or teaching autonomy) and crushing paperwork requirements. If you want to keep those “special” area teachers, why aren’t you pressuring your BOE reps and Superintendent to eliminate the thousands of non-teaching admin and support positions Fulton County has. Look for yourself. They have plenty.
Go to the website below and download the list of Fulton County Schools personnel and do some data sorts to see where the money is going.
Go to http://www.open.georgia.gov/ and click on Salaries and Travel Reimbursements. Accept their agreement page if that comes up. Now click on Organization and select Local Boards of Education. Use the drop down arrows to select Fulton County School District. Use the Export Option at the bottom of the page to export to a CSV file (Export Options). You can save the CSV Excel file and do all the sorts you want. In a matter of minutes you can see where Fulton spends its money.
fultonschoolsparent
March 10th, 2011
8:35 pm
One other comment – the planning that those classroom teachers need to even begin to keep up with their paperwork and lesson planning to get ready for all those tests? The specials area teachers’s classes give them the time to do it. So if you think the classroom teacher was over whelmed before, just wait until they don’t have any planning time. Watch the quality of your core classes go even lower without any planning going into them.
goodforkids
March 10th, 2011
9:08 pm
Counselors in many systems have a full time job running the SST/RTI process (and all the paperwork that goes with it) before they ever talk to a child individually, consult with a parent, make a DFACS referral, or provide classroom guidance. Not sure what system can still afford for counselors to provide lessons fifty minutes/week- maybe some schools in Gwinnett that have their counselors on their specials rotation?
Anyway, someone who is qualified should be running the process that supports and intervenes with students who are not succeeding. It would seem important that we identify and remediate obstacles to learning so that kids can achieve.
Cut central office and testing first- cut it down to BARE BONES, Then tell me you need to be rid of art, music, PE, and counselors because there is no money.
MrLiberty
March 10th, 2011
9:09 pm
If you sent your child to a private school that emphasized these things, there would not be a problem. Instead, you rely on the political process that emphasizes keeping certain political groups happy and cares nothing about the children or the parents. It doesn’t have to. It takes your money and everyone else’s no matter how upset you are, no matter how crappy a job they do, and no matter if you take your children and go elsewhere. How is a free market alternative WORSE that that??
Dekalbite@fultonschoolparent
March 10th, 2011
9:33 pm
Agreed. Those “specials” give them valuable planning time. And really, Fulton and every metro county has so many highly paid non-teaching positions, teachers should be the last to be cut.
Look how many employees you have in Fulton County that have teaching certificates but they don’t teach:
http://public.doe.k12.ga.us/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=102&CountyId=660&T=1&FY=2010
465 Administrators
Average salary without benefits included: $84,492
Number of days worked a year: 214
665 Support Personnel
Average salary without benefits included: $61,581
Number of days worked a year: 190
6411 Teachers
Average salary without benefits included: $53,080
Number of days worked a year: 190
For every 7 Fulton School employees certified to teach, 1 of those employees does NOT teach. Those Support employees with teaching certificates work the same number of days as teachers, they have NO supervisory responsibilities, they have NO Performance accountability, and they make $8,000 a year more than teachers. Does that make sense to you?
Look at this website and you can see the Revenue and Expenditures broken down for Fulton County Schools. http://app.doe.k12.ga.us/ows-bin/owa/fin_pack_revenue.entry_form
(Choose your year, use the drop down menu to pick Fulton, and then look at what is spent on the category of Instruction of Students (that means personnel who directly instruct – ie. teach – students).
Only $564,701,748 out of $858,879,152, only 66% is spent on Direct Instruction. 5 years ago, Fulton spent 70% on Direct Instruction. Lest you think that is small potatoes, remember that 4% taken away from teachers means $34,355,166 moved to the admin and support side. Would $34,355,166 helped save all those band and music and “special” teachers?
Most BOE members never look at these figures. They just vote for whatever the superintendent wants. Parents/taxpayers all over Georgia need to meet with BOE members and ask why they are not using the data the state collects to make fiscal decisions that impact students. Pass these weblinks to concerned parents. The data is there. Your BOE members and your superintendent need to be responsible and accountable and use data to drive their decisions.
Dekalbite@fultonschoolparent
March 10th, 2011
11:11 pm
…Look how many employees you have in Fulton County that have teaching certificates but they don’t teach:
http://public.doe.k12.ga.us/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=102&CountyId=660&T=1&FY=2010
Sorry – I should have told you to click on Personnel and Fiscal to reach the certified employee statistics
Equitas
March 11th, 2011
12:43 am
Art, music physical education, and school counselors are very
important to a school (especially in the middle grades). I’ve
read some previous post discuss the importance of the the
three subject areas in terms of employment. If the same
criteria is used for higher education, would that mean that
the University of Georgia should only have majors in the
core subjects, or employable subjects based on statistics?
If the arts are going to be cut drastically during every educational
budget crunch in our economic cycles, why spend millions
of dollars establishing state standards and requiring certified
teachers to jump through hoops taking required courses?
The public justifiably states that they can’t afford increases
in taxes, but the state offers the option for the same cash
strapped citizens to gamble away the same money that
citizens can’t afford to spend.
PE2
March 11th, 2011
6:47 am
I may be stating the obvious here; I’m so glad I don’t live, work, or have school aged children in Clayton county.
Depressing!
Black and White Smiley Faces ☺☻
March 11th, 2011
9:34 am
“You are evidently not aware of the millions of people who have great jobs and make a fantastic living in the Arts.”
These “millions” are an exception to the rule, and not typical of what one encounters when entering into the difficult sea that this the open job market.
A lucrative career is what is needed in order to ensure that one can provide for themselves and/or their family, as well as pursue additional opportunities in other fields if the so choose later on.
A liberal arts degree typically does not provide this.
Also, the theme & subject here was with regards to public schools, not arts majors, aka we are not discussing colleges.
As hard as times are with finding jobs, I still had many interviews and offers (I chose to earn a degree in a hard technical field). Life is sweet for those who were willing to make the effort.
Focus on what is really needed first, and all the “wants” second.
Dekalbite@ Black and White Smiley
March 11th, 2011
1:39 pm
“A lucrative career is what is needed in order to ensure that one can provide for themselves and/or their family”
Let’s hope all those college kids who are considering going into teaching don’t take that to heart or we won’t have anyone to take the place of the teachers who are retiring (up to 30% in the next 5 years).
Teachers’ salaries will probably rise as less people go into teaching.
arts funding
March 11th, 2011
2:50 pm
@atlmom: i appreciate your thoughts regarding the importance of core subjects; isn’t it interesting what we consider to be core now vs. the periods in human history when thought and innovation flourished? at the heart of a classical education is the understanding that art in all its forms is what gives meaning to being human; turning our backs on subjects that by their nature are creative endeavors lessens our goal of creating a better person thru public education. other countries are “beating us?” i thought that our country is still the most attractive to the brightest and best from around the world. our education system is based on the notion that a liberal arts education includes subjects that incorporate aesthetic education; why would we settle for less for our students?
Dekalbite@ arts funding
March 11th, 2011
6:02 pm
“i appreciate your thoughts regarding the importance of core subjects; isn’t it interesting what we consider to be core now vs. the periods in human history when thought and innovation flourished?
I had a liberal arts education with a double major in history and political science and a minor in English. It has indeed served me well. But then I graduated in the 70s. The world is a different place or as Thomas Friedman said so much more eloquently and persuasively than I – The World is Flat. In China 80% of their college graduates have majors in engineering, math and science. The same is true of many Asian countries. And in Europe, those very countries that created the “classical” education that we imported to the U.S. have moved to engineering, math and science as the favored majors as well. The U.S. will stay abreast of the math and science – in essence – technology – wave or we will become a second rate nation. We are no longer driving this train. We’re just trying to stay on it.
MB
March 12th, 2011
10:07 am
During budget discussions last spring, the issue of Fulton cutting almost exclusively at the school level was brought up to the school board, but they still voted to eliminate 1000 positions, of which only TEN were filled central office positions. The message received by those of us working in schools – if you don’t like “doing more with less” there are many waiting at the door to take your job.On the other hand, several new positions – with new monikers – were created at CO after the cuts.
I would challenge the contention that Cobb is 3rd in budget allocated to staff who don’t work with students – Fulton seems to take that “prize.”
Counselor
March 12th, 2011
11:34 am
In response to why Student Support Personnel have a higher average salary than teachers…it’s simple, we are required to have a Masters degree to do our job, whereas a teacher is not. Our salary is exactly the same as a teacher that has a masters degree, however our contracts are longer than teachers (we typically work 2 weeks longer than teachers each year) thus, annually we do make more because we work more days. I guess my point is, please educate yourselves before making generalized statements about pay for teachers and counselors. Obviously I am a counselor and could write many pages on why we are needed in schools, but because I’m sure you would all see that as biased, I’ll refrain. However, I will describe what I did yesterday at work in my high school, and then you can tell me whether or not I’m needed:
I began my day by meeting with over 20 Juniors to plan their schedule for their senior year…thus ensuring they have taken all the courses they need not only to get into the college (to become the lawyer, doctor, teacher, artist, etc.) of their choice, but also to graduate from high school; after than I, along with one of my assistant principals, met individually with 26 seniors on my caseload who are currently failing at least one class they need for graduation…we put together plans for making up work they have missed, study sessions, etc. to help them be successful; next I met with a student who is going through an extremely tough time with a medical illness that might require him/her to miss school and not graduate on time; I then returned phone calls to parents on subjects varying from college admission to struggles with bullies; after that I met with a parent group to plan intervention/prevention strategies for drunk/destracted driving as we have Prom and Graduation to worry about. In between all of that I met wtih students that saught me out to discuss personal or academic problems. It’s all in a days work, and I LOVE my job, wouldn’t trade it for the world and would never complain about my pay, more duties being added or even the parents who can’t seem to parent their own children. However, what I will ask all of you is, who in the school should do my job if Counselors were cut? The teachers who should be TEACHING? The teachers don’t want the responsibility of a counselor, nor should they be asked to take on anything other than what their most important job is. Maybe the administration should do our job…oh wait, you want to cut them too. Oh yes, it’s the School Social worker that should do it; although she has 10 schools that she is assigned to and already works a 60 hour week. I understand budgets are tight, really I do, but it’s too easy to say “cut the counselors” because we don’t “teach” students. I impact the lives of 500 children at my school in a positive way…what did you do today?
Dekalbite@ arts funding
March 13th, 2011
2:56 pm
I’m not anti-counselor. I just think no one is as important as the grade level and content area teachers because they are TOTALLY responsible for student achievement. They are the ONLY employees who are being considered for pay based on student test scores. If they are our “producers”, then they must be the top priority.
Grade level and content area teacher positions were cut and class sizes were increased so the these teachers – the ONLY employees responsible for student achievement – are being asked to do more for the same or less pay. Counselor positions need to be eliminated as well and those employees can be asked to take on additional responsibilities. It’s as if only the regular education teachers – the very ones that teach science, math, social studies, and language arts – are the personnel we can do without – when in actuality, they are the only ones that we cannot do without. We treat them like they are the lowest level of certified employees, and we can keep packing more kids into a finite amount of space.
The first priority is that the grade level and content area teachers have reasonable class sizes and abundant access to cutting edge science and technology equipment – not so it is easier for them to teacher – but because this is where students spend almost ALL of their instructional day. We have wrecked the very environment where students spend most of their day. Everyone seems to forget how miserable it is for students to be packed into huge classes.
I started teaching in the early 70s and have taught every grade and subject, been a a “special teachers” and a support person. But I have always understood that the grade level and content area teacher is the mainstay of any educational system. I know – I spent many years as a grade level teacher. That is absolutely the most important position in our school systems. Everything needs to revolve around our regular education classes.
TimeOut
March 14th, 2011
12:02 pm
What would happen if the 11,13, or 16 metro school systems combined to form one mega-system? Could we ‘manage’ this larger system with fewer central office personnel? We could hire more worker bees and fewer queen bees………just a thought.
TaxPayer
March 14th, 2011
9:07 pm
Most of the counselors in Dekalb do not work with students. In fact, they hide from the children and pray that they will not be ask to assist. I say, cut the counselor positions. The poor teachers are the counselors in the majority of the schools anyway.