Roy Barnes: Wrong solutions on HOPE Scholarship

I am in agreement with the former governor on this. It just got much harder for someone to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Both of my children used the Hope Scholarship, kept it all four years, graduated from UGA, attended graduate school and are professionals living in the Atlanta area. Neither of them would have qualified under the new restrictions and as an educator you can be sure that it’s not because of income.

• Link
• Report this comment

We was always wanting to get a HOPE scholarship but we was too affluent in math and almost as much with our verbal skills. Roy Barnes knows what he is saying and so do we. That’s why Ol’ Roy got the Clusters vote and almost nobody else. We was wondering if he’s going to run for something else like Ol’ Guy Milner did so many times?

• Link
• Report this comment

Agreed. I managed to keep HOPE all four years (only 25% of students do that if I remeber correctly). I graduated with a 3.2. Not the highest GPA I’ve ever had but still it was a good GPA considering I came out with BA and a BSED in four years.

How about keep the current requirements, but make it a loan for each semester that you score below a 3.0?

• Link
• Report this comment

I graduated from Georgia Tech in 2009, and while I would have (barely) maintained the Full HOPE under these new rules, I don’t know of anyone else that would have qualified. 3.5 is above graduating with high honors (and highEST begins at 3.55). There needs to be special considerations for avg. GPA.

• Link
• Report this comment

I agree with Gov. Barnes income limits should be the first change to Hope. My son will be graduating in May 2011. For now he qualifies for the HOPE Scholarship. My daughter qualified for the HOPE Scholarship back in 2002. This issue will affect every family in the state that has children. Why have the public been given the opportunity to discuss this issue before the changes are put into effect. And yes the affluent society of Georgia will benefit the most from the changes put in place by the new administration in the state house. Most affluent people in this state never play the lottery in the first place so why should they benefit. It’s mostly the poor who spend their hard earned money on the lottery.

Hope Lost……..

• Link
• Report this comment

We was thinking the ones that made the changes was probably not aware of the GPA situations at the colleges and universities that was getting the HOPE students. When we was affluent in class we would sometimes be praised by our teacher but almost never did it lead to anything grade-wise so it didn’t seem to make much difference for us. We would have gone to Clemson anyway because of their landscape program where you can graduate and get a nice discount on mowers and trimmers.

• Link
• Report this comment

AMEN Governor! My sentiments exactly.

The new requirements will also create the incentive to take less rigorous courses in high school and college in order to maintain a higher GPA.

• Link
• Report this comment

As a school counselor, many of my students are already worried about the proposed changes to HOPE. Students that have worked hard to maintain (or exceed) the 3.0 GPA were counting on HOPE funds to pay for their college tuition and expenses next year. I worry about how these students will finance their college educations. I was a recipient of the HOPE scholarship and I kept it for four years. I worked hard in college, but I also feel very fortunate to have graduated with my BSED without having to take out a single penny in college loans.

• Link
• Report this comment

Georgia wake up…You continue to vote for these types of politicians and when they make changes that you don’t like, you complain!! When has the Republican regime had the “citizens” best interest at heart? Only the affluent will continue to prosper.

Who plays the lottery??? Very interesting facts…..

http://www.cviog.uga.edu/publications/pprs/51.pdf

• Link
• Report this comment

Mr. Barnes is correct. Its a shame he doesn’t just join the Republican party so he could be governor again.

• Link
• Report this comment

I agree with Ole Roy, the cattleman, don’t raise the requirements to something unabtainable for most students.

We do need to do something to rein in tuition increases, the thing that destroyed the program. The schools had absolutely no incentive to hold down increases as the majority of the students were on Hope and they did not complain because the had the scholarship. Put a limit on the total amount of money a student can draw per semester. Maybe then as the tuition exceeds the scholarship, the students will have the incentive to maybe look at cheaper options. Demand controls price.

• Link
• Report this comment

About seven years ago, Sonny “Go Fish” Perdue and minions at the Board of Regents removed the SAT entrance requirement from two-year institutions. The SAT remains the most valid predictor of success in college. This action eliminated the poorest performers on the SAT and caused a bump in SAT averages, which Sonny claimed was evidence of improved performance in secondary programs, which he ironically attributed to his leadership. It also flooded two-year schools with students who had no business in college. Between the HOPE and Pell Grants, thousands of students each year had a paid vacation from the work force or from technical programs that would have been better suited to their ability and motivation level. This was a terrible waste of state and federal money that applied to about 20% of enrollment in the state’s two-year programs. Furthermore, these students disrupted learning with their cell phones and ipods for the more serious students who were motivated and deserving of financial aid. I had students in class who had the latest in cell-phone technolgy who claimed they couldn’t afford text books. The role of two-year programs should be to funnel students into four-year programs from which they graduate. I don’t know the exact figure of graduation rate for freshmen in the University System, but I would guess it is no higher than 30%. Georgia’s four-year universities have fairly strenuous admission standards and relatively high graduation rates. The state and the HOPE Scholarship would be better served if two and four year colleges maintained realistic admission standards based on SAT scores and academic performance in high schools. Such standards would lead to smaller but more successful enrollment in state programs and save millions of dollars wasted on unmotivated college students who have no interest in or prospects of graduating.

• Link
• Report this comment

I cannot believe I am agreeing with Mr. Barnes, but I do think there needs to be some type of income limit. I do not like that the HOPE is the poor paying for the upper middle class to go to college. I also think that the GPA’s are high for the top Universities (Tech, UGA) and all that will cause is more grade inflation. A combination of standards (GPA, SAT scores) and income limits would help the students that need the help and can succeed.

• Link
• Report this comment

Wow! Get ready for this….. I completely agree with Roy Barnes on this one.

Completely.

• Link
• Report this comment

@SOUTHERN ATL: You make my point for me. Here’s the money quote from the survey you cite:

“The survey data indicate…lottery play tends to be regressive; less-educated and black lottery players were more likely to be active players and to play games with more frequent draws.”

This much is true: the lotto is a cynical tax on the poor and minorities. But the failure of lotto players to capitalize on HOPE’s benefits (like Pre-K and college scholarships) is not because the bar is set too high, it’s because the family values that permit lotto-playing in a household that can’t afford it also permit parents to abandon their role as stewards of their childrens’ education.

The biggest problem in education is bad parents. Until we attack that problem–by making ALL parents EARN the right to send their children to free public schools– the rest is just noise.

• Link
• Report this comment

Govenor Barnes: I agree with you.

• Link
• Report this comment

He is absolutely correct! This will not help education in Georgia.

• Link
• Report this comment

Sorry Roy….Though I am old, I never was qualified to receive ANY money from the state at any state school. My father…very well educated…made to much money. The problem was a member of my family was very ill. This took nearly all his money, even with good insurance. We in our fmaily were on our own for education. Fortunately private colleges are not so regimented and I received a lot of money, worked, and maintained a scholarship as well.
My husband and I were both public service employees. We had very little money to save after our bills were paid. Our children had the HOPE money. This did allow them to go to 4 year college. That and keeping jobs allowed them to graduate without debt.
I do think the standards have been set to high and will cause more grade inflation. Colleges need to do a much better job of keeping costs down. The tuition increases have far outpaced inflation.
Ole Roy sounds like he might want to run for something again.

• Link
• Report this comment

Anyone can have an opinion, and it seems (to me) Governor Barnes’s is based on politics (of class) more than economic reality. The 3.5 is only required under the new rules to get the Zell Miller scholarship – meaning a full ride. What’s wrong with rewarding the truly excellent in this way? For those who can’t make that cut, the proposal provides very ample support for academically prepared students to attend college. Maybe requiring a small personal contribution to one’s college costs will help the student appreciate the generous (though not 100%) portion of tuition that Hope is still paying. Politics aside, making Hope solvent, while encouraging and rewarding excellence, benefits all Georgians.

• Link
• Report this comment

Would someone look at the waste of Pell Grants? Isn’t that money just handed over to “students” to spend as they like and not on actual tuition, books, fees? Some even spend the money on cell phones, iPads, and other personal items that have nothing to do with education. Now convince me that it is not a waste of good money that could be used in other areas.

• Link
• Report this comment

A 3.5 at Tech is near impossible. Better get more little old ladies to the lottery store.

• Link
• Report this comment

the problem with HOPE is that the initial bar was set to low regarding grades. SAT and GPA should be factored in when deciding who gets HOPE.

but here is the bigger issue….HOPE is a great idea, but like so many liberal ideas the rub comes when you have to pay for it…and when you have politicians whose rehiring is based on how many benefits they can provide to the voter which is not the role of government.

if we are going to offer a scholly program then it’s open to all if you qualify.

some on here are saying if you make too much money then you don’t qualify. i’ll go along with that when we have everybody in this state paying a minimum income tax and we end welfare and other gov’t subsidies. ’bout time hard workers are rewarded with something!

• Link
• Report this comment

Springdale Park Elementary Parent,

Punish the rich…LOL. So instead of punishing the rich, we help them out by bending rules to benefit them? Its been proven over and over again that those from affluent families have higher test scores. It doesn’t mean rich people’s kids are smarter, it just means they have had the environment and means to have a complete, well rounded education.

Secondly, the income cap will actually help the affluent far more than it would hurt them. If you are a business owner, CEO, or high ranking employee in your company, having a more educated employee base helps your company grow. If we stagnate the pipeline of talent in Georgia, our companies won’t be able to compete globally. The affluent are only as good as those who are on their staffs.

I’m sure you’re great because you’re rich and its all your doing or whatever, but if Georgia is short on college grads 20 years from now, companies will be leaving here along with the high paying job that you have. Your small business will do worse as those companies leave. Its all interconnected. If you don’t help the poor become educated, we’re doomed in a technology driven economy. Nobody is hiring factory workers anymore. That’s all in China.

• Link
• Report this comment

As a soon to be Georgia Tech graduate this change is ridiculous for Tech students. I have done well recently and my GPA is the highest it has ever been, a 3.5. This is right on the border for graduating with HIGHEST honors (3.55). I agree with 3.7 in high school because most students who don’t have a 3.7 in high school aren’t going to keep HOPE long in college anyway. But a 3.5 punishes students who want to challenge themselves by going to a more difficult institution. A 3.5 at Tech is like a 3.9 at any other college in Georgia. I think that this change in HOPE combined with the expansion of UGA’s engineering school is really going to hurt Georgia Tech because now students will have to decide if going to Tech is worth the strong possibility of losing HOPE, and that’s a lot of money to risk.

• Link
• Report this comment

@Maureen: let’s accept your $30,000/4 years cost as accurate. $30,000 in low-interest student loans vs. a college degree which gives you a 250% increase in lifetime earning potential and a ticket out of a lifetime in the service industries….

If you’re smart enough to go to college, you’re smart enough to figure out that this $30,000 investment in your future is a no-brainer.

The “progressive” model of making things 100% free for “underprivileged” people in fact is a slow poison that kills initiative and self-reliance.

You know who really wants to help these kids? ME. I want to bulldoze their crappy public schools, give them a chance to attend a quality school run by a community of caring people (not municipal employees); hold the parents of those kids 100% accountable for the child’s performance, and then reward those kids who stick it out with a college education (which they’ll contribute to by working and with readily available loans and grants).

You can’t wait for Superman and his Super Checkbook. Sometimes, you have to be your own Superman. That’s the lesson we’re failing to teach.

• Link
• Report this comment

Maureen
Is the 1200 SAT requirement for just the math and verbal sections (or whatever they’re called now) or is it 1200 for all 3 sections? I know when I took the ACT in high school, I earned a 29 which was the equivalent to about a 1350 on the old 1600 scale or so I’ve been told. 1200 on all 3 sections of SAT is much easier to earn than 26 on ACT.

• Link
• Report this comment

The original purpose of public universities in Georgia and throughout the country was to make higher education accessible to everyone. Until the last 30 years. Public education, including higher ed, was seen as a societal good. The more people we educate, the better we will be as a society. Now somehow, it is seen almost exclusively as a private good – what is in it for me.

• Link
• Report this comment

[...] comment needed on this one. This is a letter from former Governor Roy Barnes sent to Maureen Downey: A message from exile where grandchildren and cows rule the day. I can’t believe what we have [...]

• Link
• Report this comment

I’m in the minority, on more fronts that one. I don’t think Deal did enough. I didn’t vote for him or Barnes. Going to college is a privilege; it’s not a right. With parents having to pay more, I hope their kids take school more seriously. I am so tired of seeing ill-equipped children who view college as 13th grade. There will be some lifestyle changes (Is this what parents are lamenting–not taking the vacations or living in McMansions?) but parents need to suck it up. They made a choice to have these children, and they should further choose to educate them.

• Link
• Report this comment

I agree with Roy and with Bill. Let’s restore the lottery money to HOPE before trying to make cuts. In order to get the lottery voted in the politicians promised that the money would be used for education. That promise, along with ALL other promises made by politicians was broken long ago. The time has come to put a stop to the status quo. No more lies! The problem with state and federal government is too many politicians. Vote out ALL politicians and elect statesmen instead. We need representative government restored!

• Link
• Report this comment

Cake,
If these young people get educated, or if they do not does not simply effect their parents. It has an effect on society.

• Link
• Report this comment

Nothing is ever said about – The Hope Loophole – which is when college students have below a 3.0 GPA yet STILL get the Hope money. If that loophole were closed via checking the GPA each semester – tens of millions would be saved, tens of millions. And, it would make all students more involved in maintaining classroom efforts from day one in college.

While Barnes laments the laws impact on minority or lower income students – the real thing to lament is that the system itself does not hold the students responsible for their own actions. IF the system had not been paying tens of millions each year in violation of it’s own standards of maintaining a 3.0 to recieve Hope – it would not be in the condition it is now.

• Link
• Report this comment

Don’t forget the cost of going to college includes a lot more than the tuition. The cost of on-campus housing at Georgia Tech for one semester is $3500. I worked as a coop student and intern making $20 an hour to cover this expense, which it barely did especially considering that I had to stay at Tech an additional year because of the semesters I spent as a coop. If it weren’t for HOPE, I still would have had to take out loans despite making a lot more than the average student “working their way through college”.

• Link
• Report this comment

Not sure why student loans aren’t an option? Most states don’t have programs like HOPE, so kids take out student loans if they don’t qualify for grants and scholarships. Not sure what is wrong with that. If a child really wants to attend college, he’ll make up the difference with student loans.

When does one become responsible for his/her own education? It’s not societies responsibility to give anyone an education.

• Link
• Report this comment

Also all this talk about the “poor paying for the rich to go to school” is ridiculous. The HOPE program is merit based. If the poor aren’t making the grades to qualify that’s their fault. The beauty of HOPE was that it allowed anyone to attend college regardless of background if they worked hard and made the grades.

• Link
• Report this comment

Enter your comments here

• Link
• Report this comment

They need to completely get rid of the Hope Grant. This is nonsence going to GED receipiants. We need to have at least a 2-3 track graduation track in Georgia High Schools. With it starting in Middle schools.
The bullies existing in 4th grade. my daughter was bullied and beated in 4th grade by 4th and 5th grade thugs. Cobb County protects the thugs by saying they are only 10 or 11 years old. Try some are 13-14 already. They are a foot bigger than my child.

Every class starting in elementary needs to be split up bases upon the ability of the students. Since when are my children your TA’s. Parents should be required to teach their children the ABC’s, to Count to 100 by Kindergarten, the shapes. All in English. Otherwise, send the child back as not ready. The parent should then be required to pay for Pre-K. No Benefits should be payable if the child wasn’t ready for Kindergarden at age 5. I started Firstgrade at 5 without Kindergarden or Pre-k and a High School Dropout Mother. I have also read the newspaper everyday since I was 3. ( Some people find that to be an annoying habit of mine, the internet just causes me to read 4-5 different papers)

• Link
• Report this comment

@ Another Comment –I have seen what a CPA can do with a Pell or Federal assistance program.My Son in law comes from a wealthy family in South Georgia.They own a 2000 acre farm corporation and a Propane Business.They even own Condos and land in South America. My son in law went to a four year research university on Pell. My family did not qualify for Pell because of our total income of 75000.00.Figures lie and liars figure.

• Link
• Report this comment

Dr Phil

Thank you for injecting common sense into this problem. I have argued that far to many students use the HOPE funds and Pell Grants to simply “party until they flunk out”. No one mentions those statistics. Most students are simply not college material and would far better off learning a trade. I would like to see more Lotto money spent for Pre K…where it Really can make a difference for children from low income/less educated families.

• Link
• Report this comment

If kids and parents want the education, then I believe they’ll find a way, in spite of HOPE. Education was a priority in my family, and I was fortunate enough to have a mom who was willing to make the sacrifices for me to attend a private, out of state college. She was a widowed parent (and not single by choice). Her car was always old and she worked part-time jobs, in addition to her job as a social worker, but she managed to contribute whatever the scholarships didn’t. People are entitled to what they earn or are willing to put in the sweat equity for–nothing more or less.

• Link
• Report this comment

You simply can not have the same college GPA requiremtent of an Engineering major as someone who is going to Georgia Perimeter. Basically someone who is going to Ga Perimeter and I know a person who son when to Ga Southern and now Ga. Perimeter and is on his 5th year and has not even a 2 year degree with a person who is going to Ga. Tech. The person who is going to Ga. Peremiter is a waste of Hope money, and will not find a job. The person going to Tech will find a job.

I told the mother of the Ga. Peremiter student, she should cut off her son and tell him to go join the Army. I also told her my kids have 4 years to get a 4 year degree and I expect 18-21 credits per hour. I did it working part time.

My daughters will be looking out of Georgia at Private Schools for Scholarships that are 4 year commitments. Not something that politicians that should have been prosecuted for crimes and avoid prosecution can take back.

• Link
• Report this comment

[...] up behind it. Here’s what Gov. Roy Barnes has to say on the issue, courtesy of Maureen Downey’s Get Schooled blog: Roy [...]

• Link
• Report this comment

Gee, either the parents or the students will have to pony up the 10% and book fees for a mediocre student. That means less time focusing on celebrity culture and more time actually learning something. The horror, you say. The student might even have to get a (EEEEEK!) job.
This can’t be allowed.

• Link
• Report this comment

OOPS: SHOULD READ (21st Century Dixiecrats) are so committed to serving wealth they can’t really help themselves.

• Link
• Report this comment

This Hope discussion and the former gov miss a key point. With all due respect, is a 3.5 in engineering from Tech the same as a 3.5 in leisure studies from UGA, or a 3.5 in Sport Mgmt from West Georgia? Come on. Point is that it is counter productive to force the Hope-keeping gpa’s across schools and majors to be constant. This seems like a perverse incentive and clearly doesn’t encourage kids to go into the sciences and more technical majors that will be necessary for the state to compete internationally in the coming years. It should not be difficult for the scholars at our universities to design a sliding Hope scale weighted by major and institutional gpa averages so that someone with a 2.7 in physics is not financially punished vs a 3.9 physical education major. And yes, I agree with the former gov that the current incentive structure is particularly tough on the poor and 1st generation college kids, potentially steering them away from technical fields.

• Link
• Report this comment

GTmom … I see a book out of you! I’d dang read it!

http://www.adixiediary.com

• Link
• Report this comment

Inor my children ever needed Pell. But both my children have friends that did. It made a big difference for thm. The ones I know well finished top state schools, lived on campus, help part-time jobs, and graduated with little or no debt. Two are teachers, one is a nurse, and one works in the business world and has now completed graduate school. Bill is correct in the use of the Pell. These were children who had working parents or maybe just aparent. Not all who get help are lazy entitled consumers.

• Link
• Report this comment

Springdale Park Elementary Parent wrote:,

“The “progressive” model of making things 100% free for “underprivileged” people in fact is a slow poison that kills initiative and self-reliance.

You know who really wants to help these kids? ME. I want to bulldoze their crappy public schools, give them a chance to attend a quality school run by a community of caring people (not municipal employees); hold the parents of those kids 100% accountable for the child’s performance, and then reward those kids who stick it out with a college education (which they’ll contribute to by working and with readily available loans and grants).”

This is completely absurd. The kids we are talking about are the one’s who excelled at those crappy schools that you want to bulldoze. You aren’t hurting the dumb ones, you’re hurting the one’s making the best of the bad situation. These kid have a lot more initiative and self reliance than those rich kids will ever have. Many are fighting their way out of rural or urban poverty.

To say that the people working at these schools don’t care is completely dumb. These are the ONLY kids they care about.

Why do you care that it’ll be free for those less priveleged? I’ll end up paying too, but I’m not upset about. You’re just a selfish rich person and the only thing that matters to you is keeping your own money. Say what you want, but that’s what your posts indicate. Most other people with wealth at least understand how short sighted this proposal is even though they all want it for the free education money.

• Link
• Report this comment

Tad Jackson – You have no idea how long I have thought about that!!! But then I am a realist….. I am an engineer…. we are usually horrible in grammar and in English. I would love to reach those students who have no self esteem and who think that living in a trailer is all that they have going for them. And to talk to students who may have not always performed well on test or in their class. You can always CHANGE no matter where you are in life and no matter who are your parents. It is harder to start out when you have nothing.. for me, I had a hard time just making it to a job so I could afford a car to get to college (there are no buses in the country.. and my parents did not want me to go to college). I had to get to college and getting a car to get there was very tough. My first year (before HOPE came along), I worked 60 hours a week, commuted 1.2 hours to school and lived at home with my family who was bringing me down. I could not even get a student loan because no one would back me up (ie my parents). So when you start from nothing it really is very tough. I was in horrible relationships with guys just for freaking ride off my dirt road and to work which was 20 miles away. Then HOPE came around and changed my life. I quit my job and moved to campus (away from the hell that I was living in). Ha… I laugh but after going to school full time, and the other crap I dealt with… GA Tech was EASY. Someone just had to give me a chance.

I am soooooooo thankful for my beautiful life and I am so happy! If I could talk to kids like me, I would say don’t let anyone hold you back even if you have messed up. I didn’t take classes to prepare me for college. I didn’t do well on my SAT. But I did excel and anyone that wants it can too!! But first learn to forgive and get rid of hate.. not worth you time. I forgave my parents. Maybe I was so hard working in spite of them. Maybe a little HOPE was all I needed.

• Link
• Report this comment

So totally agree. The HOPE should be allowing more kids to go to college that otherwise would not be able to.

• Link
• Report this comment

I agree as well. I personally am a college student, approaching my junior year. I work very hard to reach the goal of Hope Scholarship help, paying my own way with loans and working. If this goes through, I will need to take only 12 hours a semester in order to have a chance to attain 3.7. This makes me take at least another year of semesters, and I will be forced to take out thousands more in loans. I think we should increase the requirements for high school students, and over time, slowly increase the requirements for college students. I think that we should need a 3.2 for the full scholarship, and a 3.0 for the scholarship that covers 90% of tuition. My parents earn triple digits, and claim me as their dependent, even though I pay for my college. Income limits are not fair to people like myself, because our parents will make us ineligible. SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP PREVENT THIS FROM GOING THROUGH.

• Link
• Report this comment

My aunt once told me that the math and science books I have are the same books the rich white student has. She said you can open those book up or let them idle on bed. Books unlike people do not see color when they are being read. In other words , being poor is no excuse for not having an education. We should stop blaming our ancestor or parent for their short-coming (education wise that is). I always thought every generation wants more for the next generation. This doesn’t seem to be the case in alot of minority household. Civil- rights leaders from the 50’s and 60’s made it possible for all minorities to get a education and being poor was just a feeble excuse. The HOPE should be about scholastic achievement and not race.

• Link
• Report this comment

Here is a message to all fellow GT students out there. Stop complaining. @GTmom is right. If an education is what you truly desire, you will find a way to make things work out financially. An extra $8-10,000 in debt should not stop you from choosing a top-ranked engineering college. Sure a 3.5 GPA is near impossible, and even maintaining a 3.0 can be a challenge at times, but your college education is a serious investment in yourself. The 10% that “HOPE Lite” does not cover over the course of 8+ semesters in school can easily be payed back in a year’s time from the high-paying job you will likely be offer on or before graduation. If you want to be debt-free, get an internship or co-op! Just last semester, I made close to $9000. Put off gradaution a semester and work/go to school in the summers and you can easily make nearly $30,000 before you even enter the “real world”.

• Link
• Report this comment

How come no one is questioning why the Georgia Lottery is not funding the HOPE at the 35% level as they are mandated to by law. Lately that rate is a been in the mid 20s. If they were even funding it close to the 35%, which is the norm in many other states, HOPE would be in much better shape and these proposed changes would not have to be as harsh.

• Link
• Report this comment

No I don’t have a big problem with what Gov. Barnes is saying. It’s hard to argue against trying to give a leg up to underpriveleged kids and those from working class families. On the other hand I’m uneasy whenever it’s suggested that public benefits should be means tested.

• Link
• Report this comment

Isn’t it in the best interests of The State of Georgia for The HOPE Scholarship to pay for some of our best students to enter and graduate from GT?

Gtmom,

A wonderfully inspirational story!

We all, particularly our kids, could use more inspiration.

• Link
• Report this comment

Actually as a society we should be helping EVERYONE we possibly can get an education because the more educated people, the better off we all are as a society. A more educated society = a more civil and productive society. More innovation and less crime! When did this country become so “me me me me me”??? No wonder we are all falling so far behind.

• Link
• Report this comment

Maybe some – EXACTLY!!!!!!! Go to a country with higher poverty rates and then talk about crime!

And wasn’t it better served to allow me and others to get an education instead of going the route of our parents – “unemployment”… “disability”…”welfare”. My Hubby and I make over $150K a year. To be honest, I would rather HOPE help out others that grew up like me than my privileged children. My children will not be a burden on society (hopefully)…lets help other kids become contributors.

And… there is nothing wrong with technical colleges. I have no problem with HOPE paying for that too. I rather pay 2-4 years for a skill than a lifetime of welfare. Education is going to help us all.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ha Sage _ I have seen some very rich kids throw away their education! It is very common for kids at GA Southern to party it up and tell their parents they are still enrolled in school. Their parents still send the money not knowing their precious kids were wasting it. It was very hard for me to see that.

• Link
• Report this comment

“I have seen some very rich kids throw away their education!”

I am sure that happens, but the percentage is most often smaller. They should be obligated to pay back what they have wasted too!

• Link
• Report this comment

I agree with Roy Barnes. I believe that the HOPE Scholarship needs to go back to it’s intended parties, the children who NEED assistance with college tuition. Not the “more fotunate” kids with high income parents. Put a phase-out in effect, one that if you make over, say $150,000/year, you start losing some of the scholarship.

• Link
• Report this comment

LMAO, you are right, those amounts are not rich, but at a higher incomer bracket–thowever, they can afford to pay Georgia’s very inexpensive college tuition (if they live at home).

• Link
• Report this comment

Why is the HOPE an entitlement for the rich if the requirements are increased? Are you all saying that rich kids are inherently smarter than poor or middle class kids? Is HOPE suppose to be a welfare program for the poor or a program to help the best and brightest we have? Please do not try to tell me a 3.0 with the grade inflation we have today is a representation of the best and brightest.

Also, why does every child have to go to UGA or GT? What is wrong with a 3.0 student attending KSU, West Ga or Georgia Southern? Maybe keeping these marginal students out of the “research universities” will get every student in the school they should attend instead of the school they did not belong in and help them get the degree.

• Link
• Report this comment

Hope should be an equal opportunity for all students in Georgia. If you work hard, then you should be rewarded for your hard work. It has nothing to do with the income status of the parents. Let’s focus on the child and his or her hard work. Don’t have too much input about the GPA average. But others before me are saying 3.7 is too high. If that is true, then it should be lowered.

• Link
• Report this comment

nice words, but not buying it.
this is just a political whore finding religion
Roy is just throwing bombs as he knows he’ll not have to back up anything he says..

are the new standards unrealistically high? maybe.
is education in Georgia in desperate need of reform? hell yes.

what bothers me most is this whole debate is becoming little more than
an exercise in class warfare.

• Link
• Report this comment

To all who say “let them get loans and get a job”… How would you feel about your kid starting adult life owing 50 to 100 thousand dollars? The average four year college tuition, plus books and materials, will leave them in that predicament. Remember, with many loans, if they don’t pay, YOU DO! And the banks will come after you if your name is anywhere on anything to do with the loans. Also, as some have pointed out, how can a kid attend full-time or even part-time and work enough to earn the money to pay tuition? Have you checked the tuition costs at even your local community college lately? Incomes have not risen at anywhere near a comparable rate to college tuition. It’s just not like it was in the “good old days” folks.

I’m not against raising requirements and more closely monitoring kids’ grades in college, but a 3.7 knocks out 95% of possible HOPE recipients. Call your local high school and find out how many kids have that in the senior class. You’ll see plenty who can keep 3.2 or even a 3.5, but only your potential honor graduates get above that, and they usually make up about 10% of a graduating class.

• Link
• Report this comment

I prefer the original requirements of the HOPE Scholarship
even if the allocated funding has to be decreased to every
eligible student. I do find it troubling that so many good
students have to rely on funding for obtaining their
professional goals through a university as a by product
of somebody buying a lottery ticket on a whim. I know
some families don’t have any extra money to save after
paying for basic necessities, but even if a family started
saving $25 a week ($100 a month) from the birth of the
child they would have at least $20,000 (Not enough to
attend four years of a college,but at least a starting
point) saved after 17 years. Maybe the question that
has to be asked of some of us is are we investing more
in consumer goods than our own children? Does the
average family spend a great deal more on automobiles
than they have to over the developing years of their
children (spending more for luxury than investing in
our children’s future ) ?

• Link
• Report this comment

my state can host the olympics, but can’t get 12 *elected* members of a school board to get the f**k over themselves, spends 1.5M$ to *reinvent* math…and now tells me that my never-missed-the-honor-roll *ever* in 12 years children must maintain a GPA that is 2 pts *above* the current research university’s honor grads? how many children of lottery winners even enrolled and/or graduated from this states universities and colleges with that GPA requirement?

i propose a new tax break that gives single parents who put academically successful, trouble-free, responsible children into society as members that contribute, rather than tax the already broken system even more…should never have to pay income taxes again…

i think keeping my children out of the jails, off the roads, and out of the government and state sponsored systems i paid into all the years while i made sure they received an education and never had a need for a public defender and weren’t on the roads causing accidents or destroying public property — i think after 18 years of my contributions to public systems via my income and property and sales taxes that i never used for myself or my family…sans public school..is enough contribution…

maybe parents — of all income levels — would have a lot more incentive to keep their kids in check and in school if they knew all their hardship and effort has a financial pot of gold waiting for them…
and the surplus left from taxpayer paid systems that fund all these “juvenile delinquent” and associated programs would fund this scholarship…why does my child have to do without college because your child can’t keep curfew??

how much incentive do my children have to keep up the good grades and stay in the top 10% percent of their class now that they’ve been told the year they graduate with those honors…the state doesn’t have the payoff it promised?

meanwhile, our locally elected officials get funding for executive SUVs…

• Link
• Report this comment

The HOPE Scholarship will not incentivize children to study. If the parents do not instill a respect for education in children, they will most likely not excel in academics. The only thing the HOPE Scholarship accomplishes is tuition hikes. Universities know they can raise their tuition rates when education is subsidized by the government, lottery, or alumni donations.

If you want college tuition to come down and be more affordable to more people, you must stop all subsidies and force these institutions to compete in a FREE market for students and tuition. Then they’ll be forced to actually teach them something worthwhile.

• Link
• Report this comment

I totally agree with former Governor Barnes. Put the income caps back and the GPA’s where they were. So many creative and intelligent kids are going to be left out of higher education if this is not corrected and it will be to our country’s detriment.

• Link
• Report this comment

To be perfectly honest, once I got in to GA Tech and had a 3.8 GPA, I really didn’t need HOPE anymore. I don’t know about other GA schools but GA Tech stacks scholarships (at least it did when I was in school). I had 6 by the time I graduated. I turned several down because I really did not feel comfortable taking any more money.

I know that $150,000 doesn’t seem like a lavish lifestyle. It is… Look up what the median salary is for a family for the nation.. and then the world. $150,000 is a lot of money. If you use your money wisely, you could be loaded. We don’t have cable. We drive 5-10 year old cars (Honda Civic). But in 10 years, I have saved so much money. I will be able to afford college for my kids. It is all about priorities. I just got my first cellphone this year (it is cheap phone that doesn’t have texting). We don’t even own a flat screen TV. We may not look like we have a lavish lifestyle but we paid about 1/2 off on our intown house in 6 years. People who are poor can not do that. Heck, they wouldn’t even be able to afford my neighborhood. $150K is lavish… there is no other way to look at it. Please, take time and volunteer. You will meet real people with real problems who have nothing. My lifestyle is lavish with good food to eat, wonderful beautiful days in the park, nice vacations, and Health.

Thanks for those who let me tell my story. I am very grateful for everything I have. I have many people to thank. The past Governors who let me focus on studying instead of working. I also thank my teachers. I was quiet and introverted. I had numerous teachers who helped me along the way sometimes with just a hug..sometimes with a push. They do matter even if I never said anything. I wonder if they know just how much they mean to me.

• Link
• Report this comment

GNGS: One of the reasons Hope is in trouble is because the caps are gone. With the cost of college having gone up so much, the cap should probably be set at $200,000.00. Wealthy families do not or should not need the Hope scholarship.

• Link
• Report this comment

Does the HOPE amount get adjusted if students are getting other scholarships? Seems like it should…

• Link
• Report this comment

Jackie T.

February 26th, 2011
11:24 am
It’s so sad to see that there are still people like Ashley…

I think it is sad that we do not have more people LIKE Ashley. Taking the personal responsibility for your Education (working hard), not drinking or doing drugs and not becoming a teenage parent is the recipe for getting out of poverty.

• Link
• Report this comment

[...] That’s not a formula beneficial to young African-Americans, who often perform more poorly on standardized tests. “What we have done is give HOPE to the affluent families who can already afford to send their kids to college, and deprive poorer white and black kids an opportunity to break out. Bad policy,” former Gov. Roy Barnes wrote to his contacts. [...]

• Link
• Report this comment

@ td,

Race and poverty are not the same issue, BUT a much higher percentage of minority are indeed poor. Institutional racism IS real. Teacher quality is typically poorer for the schools attended by a large number of poor and minority students. Students cannot choose their teachers. There is not enough Jaime Escalantes out there. Yes, each student has his/her own responsibility for learning. But, a student cannot just learn math, science, history, English, foreign language, etc. on his/her own by simply reading books. If so, we don’t need schools, and definitely not teachers.

• Link
• Report this comment

What’s the problem. The goobers voted this governor and his people in and this is what happens. The HOPE program was originally just that. Low-income with good grades but no money. Now HOPE is for kids from the best schools whose college education is paid for by all the middle and low income people who buy the lottery tickets. This is what the repubs in this state have long worked for. I glad they have tackled this problem. Next they can continue to avoid the status of new jobs in this state.

• Link
• Report this comment

Has the legislature considered the effect this will have on students taking the more rigorous courses in high school (and therefore their level of preparation for college)? They removed the honors points from consideration for HOPE because their use was too inconsistent across school systems. With all the data now available, surely they can determine for which schools honors classes are significantly more difficult. If they don’t recognize this in some way, taking a difficult schedule and having the 3.7GPA may be impossible for some students.

As the system is set now, no honors points are given for honors classes. There is no comparison between the expectations in regular 10th grade lit and 10th honors lit at our local high school. A student who ends up with an 89 has done far more difficult (and superior) work than someone with even a 99 in regular lit. However, one will have a 4.0 and the other a 3.0 for HOPE.

Even AP and joint enrollment only get “half-credit” for the rigor of the course. Compare regular chem and AP Chem – VERY different. If a student ends up with an 89 in AP Chem, they have a 3.5 for HOPE.

Pressure on teachers to inflate grades – meaning the quality of graduates declines – can only increase with this scenario. Students in college don’t have the “recovery” (e.g., extra credit) options.

• Link
• Report this comment

MB:
Honors points typically get added on by the high schools. So AP classes students pass (and IB) get a +5 bump that universities acknowledge, but self-styled “honors” courses don’t. Outside of the programs not recognized by the University Board of Regents (like a private school’s honors or a magnet school’s program) don’t get extra consideration. That’s how it was when I graduated last year.

• Link
• Report this comment

Many of the comments in this blog illustrate why this country is in a predicament. Dems slam repubs. Repubs slam dems. Liberals slam conservatives. Conservatives slam liberals. And, nobody, Reps, Dems, liberals or conservatives talk about the real issue – personal responsibility. When did it become someone else’s responsibility to pay for your child’s education?

Parents work, children work and with a helping hand from the HOPE everyone wins. You are acting as if the HOPE is gone. A student who leaves HS with a 3.0 and keeps a 3.0 through college will get 90% of his/her tuition paid at a public college or university. If you work extra hard and earn a 3.75 in HS and keep a 3.5 during college, you’ll get 100%. That isn’t too shabby! That’s what Zell Miller intended – reward for hard work.

I didn’t get one dime from the government. There was no HOPE when I attended college. And back in my day if you graduated from a Georgia HS with honors, you’d earned it.

Shut up the d…. whining! Study hard and work hard and life isn’t tough at all – that goes for parents and student alike!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

duh

Yes, that’s my point: “self-styled” honors courses vary from district to district (not by school) as do the number of honors points awarded. However, in north Fulton at least, honors classes are much more difficult as the norm than on-level classes. I worked at a high school for the previous 6 years and there was a shift in students taking all honors/AP to some regular classes when HOPE stopped acknowledging honors points. I fear that the shift will move even further now – and that’s NOT in the interest of graduating students best prepared to move into rigorous college programs.

I don’t understand this, however: “Outside of the programs not recognized by the University Board of Regents (like a private school’s honors or a magnet school’s program) don’t get extra consideration.” The ONLY courses awarded the half point are AP, IB and joint enrollment.

And the credit isn’t even tied to AP or IB scores – e.g., get an A in an AP course and it doesn’t matter if you don’t make a passing grade on the AP or IB exam, you will get a 4.5. (But if you make an 89 and get a 5 on the AP exam, you get a 3.5… how accurate is THAT correlation?)

• Link
• Report this comment