HOPE Lite versus Full HOPE: Less filling but more lasting?
I am sharing the governor’s full statement on his proposed changes to HOPE and pre-k.
His changes apply to students now in college and receiving HOPE, which means that some students will have to come up with another $1,000 next year if they don’t make the grade to be Zell Miller Scholars, which brings full tuition. (You began school as a HOPE Scholar, and now you may be a Miller Scholar as well if you meet the criteria.)
No students are grandfathered in under the current HOPE rules, according to the governor’s spokesman, whom I called for clarification of a couple of points.
I asked how many times a Full Hope/3.7 student can lose the Zell Miller Scholarship, revert to HOPE Lite, and then regain Full HOPE. Once.
However, as long as those students maintain a 3.0, they will always get some HOPE. And the governor’s office said that students can upgrade to the Zell Miller level at the stated check points.
However, students now in college can only qualify for the Zell Miller Scholarship, the full HOPE ride, if they had a 3.7 GPA in high school and met the SAT/ACT score cutoffs.
So to be clear: That means that even juniors now at UGA with a 4.0 GPA all three years can never get full tuition if they did not graduate high school with a 3.7 GPA.
That means many students now in Georgia colleges have lost full HOPE for good, regardless of stellar achievement in college. They will only qualify for HOPE Lite.
I have already heard from parents who think the 3.7 GPA is too steep. They also think the 3.5 to keep FULL HOPE is too high especially for students at Tech in math and engineering. (My son has a merit-based presidential scholarship at a private college and has to maintain a 3.25 GPA to hold onto it. What do other colleges require to keep academic scholarships?)
(Please see prior blog to get more details on the GPAs required for Full HOPE versus HOPE Lite.)
To folks in the field: Are there any concerns that the higher GPA requirement to both earn and keep Full HOPE will dissuade students from tougher majors, such as engineering or economics?
Here is the full statement from the governor:
Gov. Nathan Deal today introduced bipartisan legislation that preserves Georgia’s cherished HOPE scholarship and Pre-K programs – among the most generous benefits in the nation — even as it stabilizes lottery-funded programs for future generations. Deal, along with Republican and Democratic legislative leaders, unveiled the plan on the campus of Georgia State University.
“Facing bankruptcy of the lottery program in 2013, I worked closely with members of the General Assembly to save Georgia’s prized jewel, the HOPE scholarship, for the next generation of Georgians,” Deal said. “With this plan we are going to maintain one of the most generous scholarship programs the United States has ever seen or will ever see. Even in the tough economic times we are facing, HOPE is going to endure, it’s going to thrive.”
Deal revealed legislation that will create the Zell Miller Scholarship program; the program, named for the governor who created HOPE, will maintain full tuition coverage for Georgia’s highest-achieving students.
“Zell Miller’s HOPE scholarship is a distinctly Georgian program that serves as a point of pride for every resident of our great state,” he said. “This plan today is endorsed by Zell Miller, and I’m honored to announce the creation of the Zell Miller Scholarship, which will serve as a reward to Georgia’s best and brightest students and will encourage them to remain in Georgia.”
Under the new legislation, Zell Miller Scholars will include the top 10 percent of HOPE scholars under the present system based on both a 3.7 GPA and a 1200 SAT or 26 ACT score. These scholars attending any public college or university in the state will be awarded full tuition scholarships, while those attending private institutions will receive the full private HOPE award.
Deal assured all of Georgia’s HOPE partners that all three of the lottery-funded programs — Pre-K, HOPE Scholarship and HOPE Grant — have been protected and current funding ratios for these programs will remain the same.
Beginning this fall, students with a 3.0 GPA attending Georgia public colleges and universities will receive 90 percent of the FY ‘11 standard tuition rate. To ensure that limited resources are used to best honor the original intent of the HOPE program the legislation will: Eliminate funds for books and fees, eliminate funding for remedial classes, cap eligible hours at 127 and ensure that HOPE scholars are prepared for college-level work by requiring these students to take a certain number of high school rigorous courses.
When discussing Georgia’s youngest scholars, Deal said Pre-K will continue to receive one-third of all lottery-funded expenditures and will remain a voluntary, universal, free program serving 4-year-olds across the state regardless of a family’s economic status.
In order to make several programmatic changes to Pre-K, Deal announced that the state will move from a six-and-a-half hour day to a four-hour day.
“By removing rest time and creating new efficiencies, we can minimize the decrease in instructional time and bring our program more in line with other states and many private preschools,” he said.
Deal closed by citing a verse from one of his favorite hymns: “Strength for today and bright HOPE for tomorrow.”
“We are taking the appropriate steps today to strengthen the HOPE balance sheet, ensuring that future Georgians are afforded the same great opportunities as today’s college and university students. Make no mistake, even after these needed reforms are implemented, Georgia’s invaluable HOPE will endure and continue to set Georgia apart.”
Other changes to of note:
Pre-K
Georgia remains one of only four states to provide a universal Pre-K program
Adds 5,000 slots to address the Pre-K waiting list in the state. Currently there are around 9,000 on the waiting list in Georgia.
Increase of transportation funds.
Increases extended day funds by 4.5 million, tripling the amount currently paid for these slots for at-risk studentsHOPE Grant
Requires students to earn a 3.0 GPA by the first HOPE check point, once enrolled in technical college courses
Provides that students who already possess a postsecondary degree are ineligible to receive the HOPE Grant
Establishes a firm cap of 95 quarter hours or 63 semester hours for all students.The Georgia Lottery Corporation
Limits bonuses awarded to Georgia Lottery Corporation employees to no more than 25 percent of their base compensation and conditions bonuses on an increase in net proceeds from the prior year transferred to the Lottery for Education Account.
Lowers the commission paid to lottery retailers from an average of 7 percent to not more than 5 percent on gross sales.Need-Based Aid
HOPE Scholarship funds will be paid in full without taking Pell eligibility into account. Pell-eligible students will then be able to use these federal funds to cover the costs of college-going expenses beyond tuition costs.
$20M will be appropriated to the one percent loan program and Georgia Student Finance Commission will work to raise private matching funds for $10M of this investment. These student loans can also be forgiven altogether if loan recipients become certified and teach in a public K-12 school in the STEM field. Each year of service in the classroom will forgive one year of the student loan.–By Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
177 comments Add your comment
yea
February 22nd, 2011
8:41 pm
Pre-K Teacher
do you realize many scholarships are more limited than the hope is? and scholarships, pick any college you want to go to. so basically, if you want every college kid to leave georgia, yea, your plan would work. And with PRE-K, everything you do, can just be learned in kidnergarten. It’s a better idea to just have kids start at kindergarten at 4 years old instead of ever going to pre-k
Wearing Me Out
February 22nd, 2011
8:43 pm
No point in trying to engage you about Pre-K. You have your views. There are studies that dispel in whole or in part the positive effects of Pre-K. As far as comparing Pre-K to college, my kid had a 4.0 and this doesn’t ensure scholarship money. It doesn’t even come close, I assure you. Parents who devote a great deal of their time to the development of their young children is the key.
Interesting Reality
February 22nd, 2011
8:47 pm
Everyone knew that a change would come. And common sense (which unfortunately is not that common) should have told us that everyone WOULD NOT be happy. People made mistakes in the past and it is unfortunate that “you” feel “you” are the only ones who must pay for the mistakes of others, but EVERYONE is in the same boat one way or another. If it isn’t education then it’s something else somewhere else being cut….but people only “care” about that which changes their lives. And the world’s smallest violin continues to play.
Ohhhh the “best and the brightest” wouldn’t have stayed otherwise….if you had the money to pay OUT OF STATE tuitions (or the qualifications to attend), you would have gone where you wanted to ANYWAY, HOPE didn’t change that fact for many that could AFFORD the IVY LEAGUE education. And if you ONLY chose to stay to save the tuition money so that you could AFFORD a better car, shut up and go sit in the corner, you are no longer allowed to complain.
I went to UGA with HOPE and maintained. I still worked 3 jobs to take care of all that I wanted because I NEVER expected a free handout. And I still don’t. I think appreciation has been replaced with expectation. “They promised” is a phrase used all too often. Recently plenty of people were “promised” paychecks. People were “promised” jobs. They “promised” to end layoffs, but EVERYONE had to deal. And of course, there were those who were not affected whom didn’t care…that is until they were.
I have a daughter ready to enter Pre-K and regardless of the change I appreciate the opportunity for her to gain the educational experience and foundation through the Pre-K program. And if it is cut, I will do all that needs to be done to ensure she receives the foundation anyway. It is NOT ideal, but it is our current reality. So either we can continue to scream into the wind or bear down against it.
PRE-K TEACHER
February 22nd, 2011
8:50 pm
Yea….um it’s called sarcasm..look it up! Let’s think your “start kindergarten at 4 instead of 5″ solution through. So, at 4 you start Kindergarten….then 5 go to First Grade…..6 Second Grade….7 Third…get my point? Wouldn’t we have to add a grade after 12th? What an economical solution! I think it just might solve the problem!
Interesting Reality
February 22nd, 2011
8:55 pm
@yeah – so that I understand are you saying that school should being a year earlier for children? So instead of going to kindergarten at 5 you will be there at 4? And “every college kid to leave Georgia” are you serious? If scholarships are “more limited” how could every college kid qualify and thereby leave Georgia? Also, many scholarships are not full scholarships, but rather PARTIAL!
The entire situation is horrible and it would be so mature if the people in charge would just STOP giving themselves pats on the backs with bonuses but rather keep the money where it was initially intended…with the children. However, when was the last time ANYONE in POWER sacrificed themselves or their comfy living for the good of our future?
PRE-K TEACHER
February 22nd, 2011
8:59 pm
Again people SARCASM…..I was not comparing Pre-K to college….I was simply using sarcasm at how ridiculous wearing me out’s comment was. You said that the root of the problem is parents….well, using your thought process then getting college tuition is solely the parents problem as well…..
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
9:00 pm
@Wearing me out – go to the state of Georgia website. You can see the salaries of every employee in the USG system. When you review those numbers, get back to me about the average salary of a USG faculty member.
And no, I’m not staff. I’m faculty.
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
9:01 pm
@Pre-K: Being 18 isn’t a prerequisite for college. You wouldn’t have to add a grade.
Pre-K teacher/hope recipient
February 22nd, 2011
9:03 pm
Interesting reality- thank you for the clear views.
I know when I was in college I worked my butt off taking 20 hours of classes and working three jobs because I knew it was the only way for me to better myself. I was the one footing the bill for the difference because HOPE has never paid for 100% of college. I worked much harder to keep the scholarships (HOPE and other merit based scholarships) I did have and appreciated them because I would not be in school without them. I was never told growing up that I was “promised” a college education. I was told to work hard and do my best. My parents didn’t have money for me to go to college so I knew it was up to me. I’m sad that HOPE can no longer pay for as much as it once did, but let’s be honest…its time for people to start taking some personal responsibility for what goes on in their lives. If you have to pay for some of it so much the better. You will probably work harder and appreciate the help you did get all the more.
Wearing Me Out
February 22nd, 2011
9:24 pm
@Pre K Teacher.
Sarcasm. Sorry, I read it as a irrational comparison. Seems a couple of others did as well. I started school at 5 (first grade). They had no kindergarten back then. I, and my generation, did pretty well. I can’t say the same for the past couple of generations (much of the time when Pre-K has been in existence.
@JacobLocke
Staff (4. a specific group of workers or employees) (the body of teachers and administrators at a school). You’re a PHD? Pass the poupon, okay? As far as salaries, I just went to a USG site that had a sheet showing average salaries at each state school for 2007: professor $102,000, assoc professor $72,000, asst professor $62,000, instructor/lecturer $46,000. Average all teaching $73,000. Again, these are 2007 numbers.
The only proponents I’ve seen of this deal (no pun intended) are the educators.
PRE-K TEACHER
February 22nd, 2011
9:27 pm
@Jacob Locke….I know it’s not a prerequisite. I’m simply trying to understand the logic of starting Kindergarten at 4….how is that going to solve the problem… economically? You will have 4 and 5 year olds starting Kindergarten with huge gaps in their developmental readiness. Seriously am I missing something?
USG Facuty
February 22nd, 2011
9:35 pm
@Wearing me out: Your ignorance is showing again. How many full professors do you think are in the USG system v/s the amount of Instructors and Assistant Professors? How much do you think a PhD is worth? Do you know how many hours we work, the amount of debt we incur earning our degrees to teach your precious snowflakes? Do you know how much more we would earn in the private sector?
Lastly, we have three classifications of employees: Administration, Faculty and Staff. It’ s a fairly simple classification system. Try to wrap your head around it.
PRE-K TEACHER
February 22nd, 2011
9:35 pm
@wearing me out…in all seriousness, Kindergarten standards today are what First Grade standards were back in the day. Kindergarten students are expected to know how to read when entering Kindergarten. Thus making Pre-k important for teaching letter recognition as well as phonemic awareness.
Jake
February 22nd, 2011
9:38 pm
Have any of you tried to keep a 3.7 gpa? or even a 3.0 in highschool? in PUBLIC highschool? in PUBLIC GEORGIA highschool? No? Also, how are we supposed to “save up money” tuition costs 1 to 2 grand easy not to mention books, meal plans, and room and board when we are bagging groceries?. As a college student i make good grades, but high school is a different atmosphere. there are distractions in which college does not have. I say get rid of pre k, you can teach your own kids to read and write. Your’e affecting my future and making me pay money i dont have. You all know that you have to have a college degree to get a decent job.
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
9:38 pm
@Pre-K – there are plenty of kids who enter college at 16. I don’t know about putting four-year-olds into kindergarten, but we could do without having 12 grades. Students in England enter “colleges” at 16.
PRE-K TEACHER
February 22nd, 2011
9:44 pm
@Jacob Locke…Dude, I was not being serious about adding a freaking grade or the age of the student entering college. I was making a sarcastic observation/comment to another commenter who thought the pre-k solution would be to just not have pre-k and go straight to kindergarten at 4. Which would not really be a solution.
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
9:44 pm
@Jake – stop overreacting. Get the 3.0, get 90% covered. Apply for other scholarships and grants. Pell is still available. HOPE has only been around for 20 years. People were paying for their own education for decades before HOPE was even a glint in Miller’s eye. Be grateful you’re getting the 90%.
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
9:46 pm
@Pre-K: Dude, you said you were being sarcastic about comparing Pre-K to College. So, are all of your posts sarcastic?
Pre-K teacher/hope recipient
February 22nd, 2011
9:50 pm
Jake- to answer your question, yes. I did maintain a 3.7 gpa in a georgia public highschool and I graduated with a 3.9 gpa in college IN GEORGIA. You are being asked to pay money you don’t have to better yourself with an education? POOR BABY! College is not a right! You have to WORK for it. I didn’t have money for college either. I paid my student loans for 10 years! Its an investment in yourself. A college education is not a God given right nor a government sanctioned right. Welcome to being an adult. You have to work for things. They aren’t just given to you because you exist. Societies are out there like that. It’s called socialism!
PRE-K TEACHER
February 22nd, 2011
9:50 pm
Kinda! I was being sarcastic with Pre-K college comparison, as well as the starting Kindergarten at 5 being a really super duper solution!!! People are irritating me!
PRE-K TEACHER
February 22nd, 2011
9:52 pm
oops I meant to say Kindergarten at 4…
Top School
February 22nd, 2011
9:52 pm
Should we not careless about this, too?
Honestly, I am tired of hearing about it…
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
9:55 pm
@Top School: Just for you …
http://incompetech.com/gallimaufry/care_less.html
Boatfoot
February 22nd, 2011
10:07 pm
I can agree with JacobLocke on the part of not needing 12 grades or put it all together, we shouldn’t need 16-17 years from 1st to college degree. Our educational system, aside from access, technology and costs, hasn’t changed much since the 1800’s.
My eldest D started college at age 15, my youngest scored a 26 on the ACT in the 7th grade. Yet my eldest will have two years of college before she is allowed to be a high school graduate and though she made a 34 on the ACT and two years of college, she had to take numerous EOCT tests, Georgia writing tests, Georgia graduation tests which is just a waste of time and money. My youngest is bored and refuses to do homework (she makes 100’s on exams and gets mediocre grades on homework, if she turns it in at all.
Education should be set to where students can precede at their pace without pidgeon holed into things by age. The last two years of High School and first two years of college could probably be merged into 2 years. There is no reason for a engineer to take two semesters of a language if they don’t want or a Business major taking two semesters of World History and Intro to Psychology or some of the things many GA colleges have built into their “core”. Many times students don’t even know what is involved with their chosen major until the 3rd year of college and then Uh-oh, I don’t think I like this.
There are students in certain grades for which they aren’t ready, there are studentss in college that don’t need to be there. The reverse is true also. With today’s technology and broadband capabilities, the entire structure of the educational experience can be changed from it’s current 1800’s format. If a student can make an ‘A’ on a final without taking a class, give them credit, and let them move on so they can concentrate and focus on more important areas of need. If a 10th grade student is ready for college, send the buses to GGC, GPC or wherever.. those long distance use broadband. Leave more resources in high school for those that need more time. If students could graduate college in 3 years instead of 4 or 5, think how much HOPE money would be saved. Our best and brightest should be getting Master’s in 4 years.
Dr. M
February 22nd, 2011
10:08 pm
Those students currently in college with a 3.7 or higher GPA should also be eligible for the Zell Miller scholarship, don’t you think?
Wearing Me Out
February 22nd, 2011
10:21 pm
@USG Facuty.
Wow. You’re teaching my kids and you are the “facuty”. Guess not in the English Department.
As far as your definition of staff, I don’t believe most dictionaries recognize your definition as most recognize that staff includes administration and faculty. But because you say your institution says it is so, then it must be so.
Regarding professors, I went back to the USG site and looked at those 2007 records again for all schools in the system. I’ll use UGA since they are the largest in the system: professors 604, assoc professors 484, asst professors 383, instructor/lecturers 95. Professors do indeed outnumber assistants and lecturers. Therefore, the compensation is very high at that school. I stand by my comment.
Regarding the time you spent earning a PHD, so what? How much debt you incurred to teach our precious snowflakes? Is that what you think about students? Sounds like you have some issues. If you can earn more in the private sector, as you suggest, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
@Pre-K
Believe it or not, this country did survive quite nicely before Pre-K. Probably much better than our system today. For whatever reason, but I bet the parents are the root of all the problems with kids and the state in which we find our educational system. Is that an oxymoron? Not quite, but close.
I do know one thing, I now understand what the right wing is talking about when they talk about the elitist pass the poupon crowd. I’ve gotten somewhat of a taste of this today.
it's a great deal but...
February 22nd, 2011
10:27 pm
Hope is a wonderful scholarship and preK program. It is the best thing to happen to education in Georgia ever. But…my concerns are the rate of college tuition increases and when the scholarship is not tied to increases; sooner rather than later these monies may not amount to enough to allow many to go to college (even with 1% loans). UGA tuition is $8700, but total cost for in-state for a year is around $18,000. As the tuition rates goes up Hope will become less and less a part of the piece that helps college costs become affordable. It’s a shame.
Chris
February 22nd, 2011
10:34 pm
For some odd reason I was able to graduate from Tech without the benefit of HOPE. I did it old school, I worked for the money to pay for school.
Josh Delaney, president of UGA SGA whines about the cuts, ‘There is only so much we can take. What’s next?’. Um, 90% if you don’t keep up your grades.
Pre-K needs to be dropped, doesn’t belong.
Equitas
February 22nd, 2011
10:34 pm
Maybe the HOPE Scholarship needs to award students a nominal amount
in a state college savings plan over a period of years as an incentive for
people to save more money. If the state is focusing on students with over
a 3.7 grade point average , it is duplicating the numerous scholarships
that already exist for the targeted students.
yea
February 22nd, 2011
10:37 pm
Pre-K teacher,
at sending them to kindergarted at 4 instead of 5, send kids to college a year earlier, have them graduate a year earlier, and into the work force a year earlier. I dont see anything wrong with that.
Interesting Reality
February 22nd, 2011
10:47 pm
@Jake- yes I graduated from a public school in Georgia (while working) with a 3.8 and that included your “distractions”, AP classes, sports, and various other excuses people like to give. I also graduated from the University of Georgia a semester early, while working 3 jobs, taking over 18 hours worth of classes (including Independent Study), so to answer your question, NO I didn’t TRY, I DID IT!!! I didn’t wait for others to give me because I deserved it more than that guy or because it was promised. I did it because I WANTED IT! “Educate your own kids…” wow aren’t you an entitled something. I guess the people didn’t think of YOU and YOUR future…they were too busy trying to do something to help more than ONE….
And once again, the entire situation is horrible and would be better served if those over it would honestly think and consider others, but hey…such is the reality (until we WORK to change rather than wait for someone else to do it)
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
10:48 pm
@Wearing Me Out: You’ve not shown your ignorance, you’ve shown your absolute disregard for what professors do for your child(ren). If you’re sick, do you want the cheapest doctor or the brightest one? USG Faculty’s point may have been poorly articulated, but he or she is right about your misconceptions about faculty salaries. Using UGA as a model is not representative of the USG as a whole. As a research institution, UGA would have more full professors – that’s correct. However, there are only a handful of Research I institutions in this state (UGA, GT and, I believe, GSU). The other 33 institutions have much lower pay grades and far fewer full professors; specifically, far fewer earning in the $100,000 range.
Pre-K teacher/hope recipient
February 22nd, 2011
10:51 pm
Believe it or not…Kindergarten’s curriculum used to be what Pre-K’s is now. The standards have changed. Are you saying that kindergarten is no longer necessary? Understand that what we did in first grade is expected to be MASTERED in kindergarten..not just introduced. Pre-K is needed. As for college, Pell grants and the like still exist for need based scholarships as well as merit based scholarships. Perhaps the HOPE scholarship should be aimed at the ones in the middle. Good students who don’t qualify for need based aid but aren’t’ in the top 10% of the class. If you have a super high GPA you should be able to get a scholarship of some kind. Again… not a full scholarship. It’s not a right. You do have to pay for your education. Stop the whining. It’s not parent’s responsibility to pay for a college education. It is their responsibility to prepare their kids for college. The kids are the one’s that benefit from the life experience of going to college. They are they ones that should pay for it.
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
10:58 pm
@Wearing me out: Yep. I was right:
2008 numbers:
Professors = 2248
Associate = 2615
Assistant = 3542
Ins/Lect = 1167
Since Math is a popular subject on the blogs today, I do a little bit here:
3542
+1167 =
4719
4719 > 2248 (more than double, actually)
Nice try, though.
yea
February 22nd, 2011
10:58 pm
It should be a parent’s responsibility to pay for there childrens Pre-k then. If you really want pre-k, pay for it
Oh yes, I'm the great pretender......
February 22nd, 2011
10:59 pm
@Maureen – I have already heard from parents who think the 3.7 GPA is too steep. They also think the 3.5 to keep FULL HOPE is too high especially for students at Tech in math and engineering.
If it’s lowered, guess what?…..students will meet the expectation.
Really?
February 22nd, 2011
10:59 pm
Over half the kids in GA qualify for the Federally funded Head Start program- move them into that- and save GA’s money for HOPE- since we’re stuck with the federal dept- use it!
Fred
February 22nd, 2011
11:00 pm
@Shivam Kumar – Did you bother to read the proposed bill? It specifically states that HOPE will not pay more than the actual tuition if said tuition less than the HOPE funding.
I don’t know if this is the answer to HOPE funding issues or not but let’s at least use facts to make our decisions. I know my daughter is concerned about the GPA requirements for entry. She is concerned that by taking AP classes, she might not be able to maintain a 3.7 GPA. I told her until we know the exact requirements, we can’t know what the impact is. If some credit is not granted for AP classes, I know more students will take less rigorous courses to ensure their average is high enough. That will be counter productive.
Shivam Kumar
February 22nd, 2011
11:09 pm
@Fred
No i didnt read the Proprosed bill, i only read the article on AJC who didnt mention that at all. I’m glad that this is definately included in the bill, because they should have done that a LONG time ago
Pre-K teacher/hope recipient
February 22nd, 2011
11:10 pm
People who can afford to pay for Pre-K do. Its the majority that can’t pay that benefit from the program. Parent’s responsibility? Yes. Actual ability to get the job done? Not so much. Many families with young children struggle to make end meet. Ignoring young children and families in need is not helpful. Giving college students a leg up from having to pay full tuition to college on their own? Yes. That’s helpful. I think something can be found in the middle for both.
Wearing Me Out
February 22nd, 2011
11:10 pm
@JacobLocke
Don’t really want to engage in a tit for tat. There are a number of issues with the situation. Is the system bloated? Yep. So are the federal and state governments. The problem isn’t just isolated to educational institutions. My disregard for professors? You don’t get paid to care what I do or don’t think. If you need affirmation, I’m not the person. I’ve already formed my elitist pass the poupon view based upon some of the comments (from educators) that I have been reading today.
Would I want the cheapest or brightest doctor? Well, since I’m uninsured, I guess I would go with the cheapest. When my kid was deciding whether Harvard or Stanford were possible financially, an in-state choice was made because of HOPE. To those who say they’ve put themselves through school and worked 10 jobs, blah, blah, blah. Life and realities are a lot different today. Tuition has doubled in 5 years. I can assure you income has not doubled during that time, but has gone down. Well, just get scholarships you say. Much easier said than done. Competition for limited funds is intense.
I understand HOPE was not guaranteed and I have no issues with changes, but to pull the rug out with no notice is just not right. If I knew now what I know today, I would have tried to swing a better deal with an out-of-state school.
Confused
February 22nd, 2011
11:16 pm
I see that there are a lot of heated discussions going on here….if someone could take the time and answer a couple of questions? I have read (or at least tried to) the actual bill. However, I still do not completely understand all of the effects that it would have (it just seems like a lot of “lawyer” talk, no offense but as a young college student who has had little or no interest in politics until now, it’s a little difficult to understand). I understand why people might think that some might see us (HOPE recipients) as “spoiled” for EXPECTING a full ride to a public college. However, it is a concept/idea that we grew up with, went to high school with, and for some of us are attending college with. It is similar to expecting some sort of health insurance for a job position because it has been that way for years and you grew up seeing it, then having it suddenly cut out. It isn’t easy to completely change everything from right under us in a matter of a couple of months. The one thing that I think I do understand is the whole grandfather clause (or lack of). I graduated from high school with a 3.5 GPA after taking all honors/AP classes. I now currently have a college GPA of 3.98. So, this new bill is basically telling me that because I did not have a 3.7GPA in high school I will receive the HOPE light? 90% for ONLY tuition? I know that some people will say that 90% is better than nothing, and it is, but compared to what we grew up seeing/expecting (I can’t help it that I grew up expecting it), it is a huge change and disappointment. How does HOPE expect me to try and receive the Miller scholarship if I’ve already graduated from high school not expecting this change to occur a year later?
Is this the final draft for the bill? I mean, can there still be changes made to it (ex. adding a grandfather clause)? Also, what is the likelihood that it will include a grandfather clause?
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
11:18 pm
@Wearing Me Out:
I agree the tit for tat is tiresome. I also agree that times have changed. However, plenty of other students in other states find ways to pay tuition, I’m sure you and your child will as well. And, yes, income has gone down, including the income of the faculty teaching your students. Many of us have endured furlough days, increased class sizes and overloads. All of this being put upon us WITH tuition increases. So where is the money going? I assure you it’s not going to us dijon-consuming faculty members.
Pre-K teacher/hope recipient
February 22nd, 2011
11:18 pm
If you were deciding in between Harvard and Stanford, Hope shouldn’t have mattered for much compared to the cost of those schools. I understand getting the best deal for the money, but Hope is really only a drop in the bucket when you talk about going to out of state private schools. My sister went to Rice and Yale under the days of Hope and it didn’t sway her decision one way or the other. BTW, my parents paid none of her tuition for either school. She paid her loans dilligently for about 8 years.
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
11:21 pm
@Confused:
First, at your age you SHOULD be interested in politics. These things affect you – I hope you see that now.
Secondly, no this is not the “final” draft, but the eventual changes will not differ too much from what you’ve seen in the papers today. My advice to you and your peers is to make your voice heard and fight for a grandfather clause. Don’t wait around and hope. There is a chance that a change such as that can be included (and it should be).
Confused
February 22nd, 2011
11:33 pm
@JacobLocke:
first, thanks for clearing some stuff up.
second, I understand that people at “my age” are the group that are voting the least, but honestly that’s not something I feel that you should be reprimanding me of. I feel like I just got called out by a teacher in class. I can’t help not being interested in politics. I just turned 18 a couple of months ago- my interests are not politics at this moment (and I don’t feel like I should feel shamed for it either). And no, my interests are not in parties, alcohol, and drugs either. Darn stereotypes.
to stop future talks about maturity and how young kids don’t care nowadays…I’ll just thank you for some answers and be done. Thanks.
legalize
February 22nd, 2011
11:40 pm
marijuana can fund both Pre-k and HOPE
td
February 22nd, 2011
11:40 pm
I see we have a great deal of young people on this blog that do not have a clue as to what life is all about. Hope is totally funded by lottery sales. If you want to have more money then tell your friends and family to give up a six pack per week, a pint or a bottle of wine and play the lottery. If you are attending college full time and not working a part time job then you are lazy and are not really getting what college is suppose to teach you (preparing to WORK). If capable students are going to take lessor classes to save $1000 per year for 4 years and then in return get a $30,000 per year job instead of a $70,000 job then you really do not deserve to get a college education.
Wearing Me Out
February 22nd, 2011
11:51 pm
@Confused
Seems they’re getting vicious now in their comments. Wow. To answer your question, it appears the 3.70/1200/26 requirement will apply to both current college students who graduated high school with those numbers and to future college attendees who have those high school numbers. HOPE is better than nothing, but you really need to be prepared because the 10% differential, out-of-pocket for tuition increases that HOPE won’t cover, the $6,000-10,000 for room and board, the $360 for parking, the $1,700 for student fees, the $500-$1,500 for books add up to a substantial amount. You or some other scholarship or maybe Pell will have to help pay for that yourself. Federal Work Study. I believe 5000 applied for FWS jobs at one large school and only 400 were able to secure a job. Off campus work. Unemployment rate highest in many moons for young people. Not a death knell to your future educational plans, but a definite crimp.
teacher&mom
February 23rd, 2011
6:45 am
The previous legislators and Governor were warned that HOPE was running into the red. Their refusal to address the issue is a major problem. Instead of drastic cuts and overnight GPA increases, wouldn’t it have been better to phase in the changes?
Any one still believe Sonny was an effective Governor?
The university my oldest attends has posted on their web site that 62% of their student body will be impacted by the proposal.