HOPE Lite versus Full HOPE: Less filling but more lasting?
I am sharing the governor’s full statement on his proposed changes to HOPE and pre-k.
His changes apply to students now in college and receiving HOPE, which means that some students will have to come up with another $1,000 next year if they don’t make the grade to be Zell Miller Scholars, which brings full tuition. (You began school as a HOPE Scholar, and now you may be a Miller Scholar as well if you meet the criteria.)
No students are grandfathered in under the current HOPE rules, according to the governor’s spokesman, whom I called for clarification of a couple of points.
I asked how many times a Full Hope/3.7 student can lose the Zell Miller Scholarship, revert to HOPE Lite, and then regain Full HOPE. Once.
However, as long as those students maintain a 3.0, they will always get some HOPE. And the governor’s office said that students can upgrade to the Zell Miller level at the stated check points.
However, students now in college can only qualify for the Zell Miller Scholarship, the full HOPE ride, if they had a 3.7 GPA in high school and met the SAT/ACT score cutoffs.
So to be clear: That means that even juniors now at UGA with a 4.0 GPA all three years can never get full tuition if they did not graduate high school with a 3.7 GPA.
That means many students now in Georgia colleges have lost full HOPE for good, regardless of stellar achievement in college. They will only qualify for HOPE Lite.
I have already heard from parents who think the 3.7 GPA is too steep. They also think the 3.5 to keep FULL HOPE is too high especially for students at Tech in math and engineering. (My son has a merit-based presidential scholarship at a private college and has to maintain a 3.25 GPA to hold onto it. What do other colleges require to keep academic scholarships?)
(Please see prior blog to get more details on the GPAs required for Full HOPE versus HOPE Lite.)
To folks in the field: Are there any concerns that the higher GPA requirement to both earn and keep Full HOPE will dissuade students from tougher majors, such as engineering or economics?
Here is the full statement from the governor:
Gov. Nathan Deal today introduced bipartisan legislation that preserves Georgia’s cherished HOPE scholarship and Pre-K programs – among the most generous benefits in the nation — even as it stabilizes lottery-funded programs for future generations. Deal, along with Republican and Democratic legislative leaders, unveiled the plan on the campus of Georgia State University.
“Facing bankruptcy of the lottery program in 2013, I worked closely with members of the General Assembly to save Georgia’s prized jewel, the HOPE scholarship, for the next generation of Georgians,” Deal said. “With this plan we are going to maintain one of the most generous scholarship programs the United States has ever seen or will ever see. Even in the tough economic times we are facing, HOPE is going to endure, it’s going to thrive.”
Deal revealed legislation that will create the Zell Miller Scholarship program; the program, named for the governor who created HOPE, will maintain full tuition coverage for Georgia’s highest-achieving students.
“Zell Miller’s HOPE scholarship is a distinctly Georgian program that serves as a point of pride for every resident of our great state,” he said. “This plan today is endorsed by Zell Miller, and I’m honored to announce the creation of the Zell Miller Scholarship, which will serve as a reward to Georgia’s best and brightest students and will encourage them to remain in Georgia.”
Under the new legislation, Zell Miller Scholars will include the top 10 percent of HOPE scholars under the present system based on both a 3.7 GPA and a 1200 SAT or 26 ACT score. These scholars attending any public college or university in the state will be awarded full tuition scholarships, while those attending private institutions will receive the full private HOPE award.
Deal assured all of Georgia’s HOPE partners that all three of the lottery-funded programs — Pre-K, HOPE Scholarship and HOPE Grant — have been protected and current funding ratios for these programs will remain the same.
Beginning this fall, students with a 3.0 GPA attending Georgia public colleges and universities will receive 90 percent of the FY ‘11 standard tuition rate. To ensure that limited resources are used to best honor the original intent of the HOPE program the legislation will: Eliminate funds for books and fees, eliminate funding for remedial classes, cap eligible hours at 127 and ensure that HOPE scholars are prepared for college-level work by requiring these students to take a certain number of high school rigorous courses.
When discussing Georgia’s youngest scholars, Deal said Pre-K will continue to receive one-third of all lottery-funded expenditures and will remain a voluntary, universal, free program serving 4-year-olds across the state regardless of a family’s economic status.
In order to make several programmatic changes to Pre-K, Deal announced that the state will move from a six-and-a-half hour day to a four-hour day.
“By removing rest time and creating new efficiencies, we can minimize the decrease in instructional time and bring our program more in line with other states and many private preschools,” he said.
Deal closed by citing a verse from one of his favorite hymns: “Strength for today and bright HOPE for tomorrow.”
“We are taking the appropriate steps today to strengthen the HOPE balance sheet, ensuring that future Georgians are afforded the same great opportunities as today’s college and university students. Make no mistake, even after these needed reforms are implemented, Georgia’s invaluable HOPE will endure and continue to set Georgia apart.”
Other changes to of note:
Pre-K
Georgia remains one of only four states to provide a universal Pre-K program
Adds 5,000 slots to address the Pre-K waiting list in the state. Currently there are around 9,000 on the waiting list in Georgia.
Increase of transportation funds.
Increases extended day funds by 4.5 million, tripling the amount currently paid for these slots for at-risk studentsHOPE Grant
Requires students to earn a 3.0 GPA by the first HOPE check point, once enrolled in technical college courses
Provides that students who already possess a postsecondary degree are ineligible to receive the HOPE Grant
Establishes a firm cap of 95 quarter hours or 63 semester hours for all students.The Georgia Lottery Corporation
Limits bonuses awarded to Georgia Lottery Corporation employees to no more than 25 percent of their base compensation and conditions bonuses on an increase in net proceeds from the prior year transferred to the Lottery for Education Account.
Lowers the commission paid to lottery retailers from an average of 7 percent to not more than 5 percent on gross sales.Need-Based Aid
HOPE Scholarship funds will be paid in full without taking Pell eligibility into account. Pell-eligible students will then be able to use these federal funds to cover the costs of college-going expenses beyond tuition costs.
$20M will be appropriated to the one percent loan program and Georgia Student Finance Commission will work to raise private matching funds for $10M of this investment. These student loans can also be forgiven altogether if loan recipients become certified and teach in a public K-12 school in the STEM field. Each year of service in the classroom will forgive one year of the student loan.–By Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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177 comments Add your comment
Dan
February 22nd, 2011
4:45 pm
So am I reading this correctly the difference between the full HOPE and HOPE light is $1,000 a year?
Shivam
February 22nd, 2011
4:45 pm
@blackbird
I did check my facts.
I have also seen my own account statement at uga, and my friends at georgia perimiter, he is low income, but he recieved 4120 from HOPE. I, also, Recieved 4120 from HOPE.
Dan
February 22nd, 2011
4:50 pm
While the 3.7 is a bit steep, for a $1K a year, kids could save that by switching to kroger cola instead of Coke, (or more likely PBR instead of Bud light). Fact is a little belt tightening is a learning experience as well, and if $4k of student loans is too much of a burden upon graduation, well the whole thing really isn’t worth it anyway
highschooler
February 22nd, 2011
4:50 pm
I do not agree with this plan AT ALL! I feel that if they were going to implement something like this there should have been like a 4 year warning or something. They can’t all of a sudden spring this upon seniors who are about to graduate and have NO opportunity to do anything about it. I personally am a high school senior with a 3.3 GPA and I have only taken AP and Honors courses. All throughout high school our entire class has been promised that HOPE would cover full-tuition, so what in the world am I supposed to do about my GPA in 3 months before I graduate! It’s not fair that a peer of mine who has only taken taken a couple of Honors Courses, has a higher GPA and just so happened to do well on the SAT gets full HOPE and I get partial.
And in response to the 3.7 stuff… picture this…
You and your best friend Johnny go to the same high-school.
You have a 3.6 and Johnny has a 3.7.
Nathan Deal decides inform you of this plan like practically 2 days before you graduate (moral: you can’t change your GPA)
You and Johnny go to UGA… matter of fact you are roomates.
Johnny maintains a 3.5 and you bust your butt to maintain a 4.0.
Yet…Johnny still gets full-HOPE by doing the minimum while you get partial…
messed up huh.. :/
cut spending elsewhere…..idk where…but not to the kids of YOUR future…
TeachFirst
February 22nd, 2011
4:52 pm
@Susan
Can a kindergarten teacher tell which students in his/her class attended pre-k? Probably.
Can a third grade teacher tell? Absolutely not. There is no evidence that pre-k makes a long term impact on a child’s academic success.
MiffedMom
February 22nd, 2011
4:59 pm
@ highschooler
Your passionate words say it all!!! As the mother of a similar student I could not agree with you more…
Dan
February 22nd, 2011
5:00 pm
Highschooler, life is not fair, perhaps Johnny is a Chem E major and you are taking Recreation Management, in which case Johnny could probably help you with your homework. There is no reason to complain about FAIR when you are given something, if you receive $0.25, it is more than you had before, not so impactful but more than you had. Kids that would be adequate caretakers of the future, understand that and accept the challenge.
Wearing Me Out
February 22nd, 2011
5:02 pm
I understand the poor economy has a large role in the state of finances, but the bottom line is that unless colleges start living within their means, the students and parents will continue to be hit with outrageous bills. Why, pray tell, is anyone talking about tuition increases? To pay the fat salaries at our colleges while the rest of the country is hemorrhaging today, with a few exceptions. Most of a college’s expense is salary. Period, paragraph. They and the medical community seem to be the only ones who think they can have huge and continuing increases. Their sense of entitlement is truly amazing. Roll back these exorbitant salaries and get rid of pre-K (society has fared fine before the advent of pre-K), problem solved. Too, the 3.0 GPA was always a joke. That’s basically a C that has been inflated to a B just to get in the door. The minimum should be 3.5. Further, it should be need based. There is no excuse for some rich kid whose parents are fully capable of paying to get a free ride.
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
5:18 pm
@ Weating me out – No, you’re wrong. Faculty haven’t had yearly raises in over five years. The costs are things like apartment-suite dorms, high-end furnishings for those dorms, flat screen televisions for the student centers and common areas, video-game consoles, rock walls, fitness centers, etc., etc., etc.
blackbird13
February 22nd, 2011
5:24 pm
@Shivam
Taking someone’s word for it is not checking the facts. You are spreading misinformation based on hearsay. HOPE does not refund money to those who have cheaper tuition bills because of the school they attend. GSU tuition for 12 hours: $2248. Amount HOPE paid: $2248. Now, if they have a Pell grant, they may be getting a refund. Otherwise, your friend is fibbing or you are misunderstanding him or her.
Wearing Me Out
February 22nd, 2011
5:28 pm
Beg to differ. Check my facts. A typical college, whether UGA or other large school, compensation (including salary, wages and benefits) is 2/3 of the total college expense. This is nothing new. Colleges and the medical community has been gouging the American people for at least 30 years.
Old School
February 22nd, 2011
5:31 pm
HOPE really has become welfare for the middle class. Everyone is complaining about the amount of money they get even though they don’t do anything to earn any of it. HOPE is not the reason for making good grades; kids were expected to make good grades before HOPE. Considering the economy, you should be thrilled to get anything. And for those of you current college students complaining about not retroactively getting the extra “Zell Scholarship” money, my son graduated from high school in the early 90’s, had over a 4.0 gpa, and got no HOPE. Should I be able to go back and retroactively get some money for him?
David Hoffman
February 22nd, 2011
5:32 pm
Bad Pre-K decision. As others have noted the college students can go to work full time for a few years and save up money for the expenses HOPE will not now cover. 4 year old children need full support to learn. 4 hours a day is too short and will create increased expenses for parents, and less prepared kindergartners. The Pre-K program was underfunded as it was. Not enough to properly cover construction expansion expenses for high quality facilities.
I do like the SAT/ACT requirement. That kills the grade inflation problem. The ACT and SAT administrators cannot be pressured to increase scores.
The reduction of the bonuses paid to retailers for winning tickets is short sighted. The expenses to run the lottery and the lost opportunity costs may be enough to get some to reduce support for all those scratch off games that take up space if the overall compensation is reduced for the owner
The reduction in lottery bonuses for the GLC employees is mean, envious, spiteful, and short sighted. The bonuses helped reward employees for achieving greater overall levels of revenue for the lottery funded education programs. Enthusiasm for creating new revenue generators such as the KENO system will be less. The KENO game was a complex system that required long hours of negotiation with bar owners, frequent in person visits during all bar operating hours, and in person demonstrations for customers during bar operating hours. How much enthusiasm will there be for a new program like that if the incentive is reduced?
Mary
February 22nd, 2011
5:33 pm
Jacob Locke – seems like these ultra-’smart people’ are lacking common sense. What happened to means testing? – the Hope had it to begin with and disolved it when it generated a surplus. No surplus now – bring it back. Raise it to 150,000 for BOTH Hope and Pre-K. I know many professional folks who take advantage of the program who could and would afford to pay for pre-k childcare. The children who need the pre-k most are the ones that won’t come anywhere close to an income cap. RIDICULOUS to make it cover only 4 hours/day. Bad for faculty and bad for working parents. EVEN MORE RIDICULOUS is to make current recipients ineligible for full Hope if they didn’t get a 3.75 in high school. Seems like eliminating fees/books should generate enough to make it solvent. That will cost my UGA sophomore another $2,000/year. Not forcing a cap on tuition rates when you are so wishy washy about what will be covered in the future is also bad.
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
5:38 pm
@Mary: Unfortunately, we’re beyond that now. Trust that every scenario was analyzed and modeled. Drastic times.
Boatfoot
February 22nd, 2011
5:39 pm
Is that a weighted or unweighted GPA for High School. Every schools system, county and city, sets their own +5 points for honors, +10 for AP, then you have home schooled and dual enrolled (kids actually taking college classes). On the college side, a 3.5 for engineering at Ga Tech is a little harder than a History degree from Valdosta State. The you have students in honors colleges vs non-honors colleges.
Why not divide the money up from a large pool and give to each institution of higher learning based on tuition costs and enrollment. Then each college can determine their requirmments to get the scholarships and they can institute additional levels. They already admit by GPA, SAT/ACT, rigor, and other items. They also have standards for honors college entrance.
Maybe Ga Tech may want to set the in college GPA to 3.25 for full tuition, maybe UGA would want to give honors college recipients true full -rides including room & roard or varying levels. As they do now, students would apply to the schools they can get in based on the schools requirements, or maybe one college would come up with unique programs. Maybe Georgia Gwinnett wants to give full-rides to national merit finalists to attract more non-local students and build the new university.
Trying to set a one-size fits all set of rules across public, private, dual enrolled, home schoolers and then across the gambit of different level of colleges and universities is just going to cause problems and constant changing of the rules to appease one faction or another or the disparities as they arise.
Thank goodness my daughter has a true full-ride (tuition, room & board) at an out-of-state school so we don’t have to worry about this mess. (Of course, I do have a 9th grader).
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
5:42 pm
@Wearingmeout: Those salaries also include grounds and facility staff, OIT folks, police, etc. Faculty in Georgia already make less than the national average. If you’re ready to run off the better academics from this state, go on ahead and lower those salaries further. Faculty benefits were also cut recently – we pay more for less healthcare than we did just two years ago.
Erica McCoy
February 22nd, 2011
5:52 pm
” And the governor’s office said that students can upgrade to the Zell Miller level at the stated check points.”
So let me get this right:
Current/future high school students can “upgrade” to the Zel Miller Scholarship at checkpoints after entering college. So would they have to get a 3.5 (since that is the “maintaining” GPA for Zel Miller Scholars) in college or a 3.7 to initially qualify at the checkpoints after being in college?
And if current/future high schoolers can “upgrade” to the higher status once in college( should this plan be implemented), why can’t current college students (entered before May 2011) as well? That doesn’t seem right. This will affect me for one semester at most, but I’m graduating early.
Erica McCoy
February 22nd, 2011
5:59 pm
To clarify, I mean that I had a 3.5 in high school, making me “Lite” eligible…but now I have a 3.66 in college, making or close to making the requirements for a Zel Miller Scholarship. If they are saying younger college students will be able to upgrade, why couldn’t the junior at UGA who is making a 4.0 in college as well?
Wearing Me Out
February 22nd, 2011
5:59 pm
@JacobLocke
Can only assume you are on staff. No sympathy from me. The history of double digit increases in tuition over this many years was and is completely unwarranted. If the median salary in society is $40,000 and someone working at an educational institution whines about me questioning their $100,000+ salary, then I have no pity. Again, compensation is 2/3 of a college’s total expense. Period. As far as your comment about the costs being tied to fancy dorms, tv’s, etc., funny, but I pay $7,000 a year out of “my” pocket for that dorm. I believe the students/parents have paid for these amenities, not the colleges nor Hope (which doesn’t cover room and board). Me worry about staff leaving to other states for greener pastures, once Georgia moves from near the bottom of the country to the near the top in education, I might give it some thought. Otherwise, I get sick every time I hear our institutions of higher learning require another tuition increase.
Maureen Downey
February 22nd, 2011
6:00 pm
@Erica, High schoolers can only upgrade if they had the Miller and lost it. They still have to have had the 3.7 and the required test scores.
So, they would have to enter UGA, lose the Miller and then upgrade to it once they boosted their GPA. No one will get the Miller without the 3.7 in high school and the test scores.
Maureen
Erica McCoy
February 22nd, 2011
6:03 pm
Ok that makes more sense. Sorry I misunderstood. Thank you for clearing that up for me. =D
blackbird13
February 22nd, 2011
6:07 pm
@Erica
That seems to be what the bill is saying. Those who didn’t qualify in high school, no matter how long ago high school was, can never qualify for full tuition, even if they made an “A” in every single class in college. Meanwhile, someone can qualify in high school for full tuition, make straight F’s their first semester, and that semester’s tuition will be fully paid for. Huh!?
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
6:10 pm
@WearingMeOut: Well, you’re wrong again and, I see, another example of another know-it-all college kid. Parents and students pay for the power bills, the cable, the internet and other upkeep. Building the facilities led to the tuition increases. Adding classrooms, laboratories, computers, etc. led to the tuition increases. Institutions have been building and preparing for the increased enrollments that have been ongoing for the last 15 years or so. HOPE was ill-conceived from the start – it needed to be better regulated years ago, but it wasn’t and now this is the bed we have to sleep in. It has nothing to do with faculty salaries (mine is at $45,000 – most are in the $40-60K range, and that’s with a PhD, so you’ve shown your ignorance again).
JacobLocke
February 22nd, 2011
6:14 pm
… and everything to do with the USG and the College and University presidents not thinking about what they were doing.
catlady
February 22nd, 2011
6:19 pm
I guess some MORE of the families of the Georgia leadership need jobs so we will open up some new bureacracy positions to administer these changes and the new loan program.
Wearing Me Out
February 22nd, 2011
6:26 pm
@JacobLocke
Guess I got the staff part right. No, not a college kid. Just a struggling parent. I do pay $7,000 out of pocket for a dorm room not much larger than a prison cell. I can pretty much well scrutinize the UGA budget and prove my point. Facilities at UGA are old. Not much capital expenditure there. While not authoritative, I did a quick Wiki search and average earnings for a college professor at a public institution is $98,000 and at a private institution $127,000. I am pointing the finger at institutions of higher learning in general. They have been milking parents for 30 years.
oldtimer
February 22nd, 2011
6:30 pm
Two things here….Highschooler has a great point. The new requirements ought to begin for next years incoming freshmen. To those discussing college costs. Yes, professors have not had a lot of raises…but many had high salaries to begin with. A professor only actually teaches 12-15 hours a week, which requires more professors. College personnel also receive benefits and retirement benefits far far far better than other state employees…..including dental insurance in retirement and very very low cost health insurance. Colleges must do much more to contain their costs.
highschooler
February 22nd, 2011
6:37 pm
@dan. yea… that’s a special case. What if they are BOTH a Chem major???? and I hate to burst your bubble but NO ONE can raise their GPA up to a 3.7 in 3 months…obviously you have no children in high school because if you did then you would sympathize… and what do you mean life isn’t fair??!!?? I was promised full tuition a week ago and now I don’t have full tuition…yea that’s fair…what are you talking about ??? P.S. why in the world would Johnny help me with my homework if he was a chem major and i was recreation??? idk just wondering… #that is all
teacher&mom
February 22nd, 2011
6:41 pm
@Maureen – any word from the Board of Regents or college presidents about the proposals? I can’t help but think many are dismayed because this has the potential to empty out their classrooms next fall. While I understand the frustration that many professors have expressed about students who are not prepared for college, the flip side of the coin is large freshmen classes = more teaching positions and jobs at the colleges and universities.
Boatfoot
February 22nd, 2011
6:42 pm
Of course the Georgia Teacher’s Retirment fund somewhere between $40-$50 billion dollars with all lifetime benefits guaranteed by state law could be used to lower college costs. They only pay out $ 2.5 billion per year… Maybe they can share the pain.
collegebound2011
February 22nd, 2011
6:45 pm
@ Dan no disrespect but are you in college or have you gone to college because the scenario that you just described does not make since. how can someone with a Chem E major help someone who has Recreation Management homework…they have two different majors. And you are absolutely right life isn’t fair! it isn’t fair that we have to suffer from others mistakes. There are many people like myself who have worked hard for my entire high school career and have challenged myself academically. But because I have lower than a 3.7, which is it just me or does it seem like they just pulled this GPA out of a hat, I can’t get the full hope. Georgia needs to focus on putting all their money into education so they can replace the idiots that have put us in this mess. Thanks a lot Georgia guess for letting me know whats going on with my future 4 months before i graduate
woofydawg
February 22nd, 2011
6:45 pm
Maintaining a 3.5 in college can be demanding, especially in tougher majors and at tougher schools. UGA Honors requires its students to maintain only a 3.3 GPA to be considered in good standing with Honors.
breezy53
February 22nd, 2011
6:53 pm
I didn’t start college until age 50 and have no clue what my high school gpa was in 1975. I have worked hard to maintain a 4.0 gpa while working a full-time as well as a part-time job during all this. Current HOPE scholars should be grandfathered in. This should only affect incoming freshman. Like others have said “How can you expect a 2011 high school graduate with a 3.5 gpa to get a 3.7 gpa in the last 3 months of their senior year.
I didn’t go to pre-k or even kindergarten and I learned to read and write before I went to 1st grade. That is called parent involvement. Parents today think educating their children is totally on the shoulders of our public and private schools. Get involved with your children’s lives and they won’t need pre-k.
senior
February 22nd, 2011
7:00 pm
As a high school senior, I think this is ridiculous. The last thing that needs to be cut is education. The hope has always kept many Georgia highschool students in georgia for college. I go to a private school and many kids who get into awesome schools decide to stay in state for the hope. Some of them might be changing their minds. An extra 4,000 in loans is a lot, especially if you go to a private georgia college. When us college and future college students aren’t even sure that we will have a job getting out of college, IT MAKES 4,000 IN LOANS A LOT OF MONEY.
Also this proposal doesn’t take the variance in education into consideration. I have most of the time 4 hours of homework a night. And many of my teacher don’t give above a A-. College of Charleston adds 3 points onto GPAs from my school. Not only does hope not take that into consideration, but it also alters my GPA and makes it lower!!
Brian
February 22nd, 2011
7:04 pm
As a first year engineering student at Georgia Tech, I find this proposal an absurd attack on bright students who pursue difficult curricula. I took almost every AP course offered at my high school, so as a result, my HS GPA was only about 3.5, but as a National Merit Scholarship finalist, I was offered full rides (generally including housing, a computer, and/or a cash stipend) at several universities in other states, but turned them down in favor of Tech, because it’s a better university and the HOPE scholarship made it fairly affordable. Under the new proposal, I am permanently ineligible for full HOPE benefits, and since the terms of any full rides I was offered required me to accept them by last April, I can’t get them back. I know this will initially only amount to about $1,000/year extra, but tuition keeps rising while scholarships don’t and if I had known this was going to happen, I would certainly not have remained in this state. The least they could have done was grandfathered existing students in.
highschooler
February 22nd, 2011
7:06 pm
@senior I AGREE!!! The state doesn’t consider stuff like that… And why in the world would people say “ooo they will just work it off when they get out” that’s soo stupid THAT’S THE WHOLE REASON YOU GET SCHOLARSHIPS!! is so when you get out you are debt-free… duh!!
MackTheKnife
February 22nd, 2011
7:08 pm
Hope should be preserved and directed towards students who come from working class and lower middle class families. Considering these kids who come from upper middle class and wealthy parents don’t really need hope, compared to the people who actually buy the lottery tickets which funds the scholarship (working class folk), it only seems logical that the dollars be redirected to people who pay for the scholarship.
highschooler
February 22nd, 2011
7:09 pm
@ Brian see…situations like that are ridiculous… Georgia is letting its college student down…BIG TIME… and yea it may only be 1000 per year but that 1000 dollars i wouldn’t have had to pay otherwise…money is money.. hope everything works out!!!
PRE-K TEACHER
February 22nd, 2011
7:33 pm
@Karen….So, as a kindergarten teacher you observed how far ahead the children who attended Pre-k vs. the children who did not attend….correct? Now, you propose to cut the entire program because it is not mandatory and not all children attend anyway? I am trying to find the logic here….
Pre-K teacher/hope recipient
February 22nd, 2011
8:04 pm
I understand the need to make cuts in order to keep both programs alive. I received the full hope scholarship when I was in school but still ended up paying student loans for years because I went to a private school. That being said, I think it is foolish to consider cutting the Pre-K day or even think of getting rid of it. I teach in a lottery funded Pre-K and let me assure you, it is not just daycare. We follow the schedule of the rest of the elementary school we are housed in. We are the ones who identify children who may have special needs and get them connected with the services they need. BEFORE KINDERGARTEN. We are visited multiple times a year by the state to make sure we adhere to the mountainous guidelines we are asked to follow. Plenty of research has shown that getting a good foundation in school early is important for a students k through college. College students can accept some responsibility for their own education. Four year olds cannot.
Lee
February 22nd, 2011
8:11 pm
SWING!!! and a miss.
Deal put the best minds Ga had to offer on this problem and they screwed the pooch.
This solution:
1. Will do nothing to alleviate grade inflation at the high school level and will probably make it worse.
2. Will do nothing about the “go for a year, lose HOPE and drop out of college” student. Granted, now they only recieve 90% of tuition and no book allowance, but they still waste a year’s worth of tuition.
They could have made it a reimbursement program, you know, like the programs that many Fortune 500 companies offer their employees. Simple, direct, easy to administer. Alleviates grade inflation pressure at the high school level.
But no. We get a convoluted mess that will be a nightmare to administer.
northern neighbor
February 22nd, 2011
8:13 pm
Something had to be done, and this proposal is something. See how it flies and adapt it in a year. HOPE wasn’t perfect before, it won’t be perfect now. Again, something had to be done. If you don’t like it, run for governor.
Shar
February 22nd, 2011
8:15 pm
Brian, my daughter is in precisely the same situation. Worse, every student in the Georgia University System, and particularly at UGA and Tech, will immediately see this problem and switch away from more difficult courses into ones in which they can achieve an A and thus protect their scholarships. Consider the new Professional Science Masters that UGA has won stimulus funds to develop – the Georgia business community lobbied heavily for it as it will graduate students with technical, scientific, math, communications and language skills, but the diversity of disciplines required is unique and will be very, very challenging to achieve within the 3.7 requirement, which will discourage students from taking the prereqs and entering the program. Where is the sense in that?
Jacob, you have got to be kidding me. “Trust” that these are the best options for saving money, from an administration led by a dunderhead who can’t handle his own finances and who crept out of the Congressional cesspool literally minutes before public exposure and disgrace? While I wouldn’t argue with the notion that colleges and universities are both profligate and irresponsible with the money they receive, the primary cause of the sky-high tuition increases within the USG is the slash and burn that the same legislators you want to “trust” have inflicted upon the education budgets. They assumed that the difference would be made up with HOPE dollars in perpetuity (or until they retired from the Gold Dome, which to them is the same thing), so they yanked lots and lots and lots of money away from education and stuck it into stupid pet projects. Suddenly the HOPE well is drying up and these same legislators are looking to blame, and bill, anyone and everyone but themselves. I wouldn’t “trust” them to clean out a sewer.
Boatfoot, good suggestion on allocating dollars statewide but leaving the individual campuses to assign levels of scholarship support. I hadn’t heard that suggestion yet and it makes sense, given the wide disparity among the USG schools.
Wearing Me Out
February 22nd, 2011
8:17 pm
This isn’t just a question of a 10% differential in tuition (90% as opposed to 100%). Also factor in that it will be based on revenue and not tuition increases (rate of increase has been nuts over the years). So any increases in tuition will come out of your pocket. Also, it will no longer pick up fees (which as of my last accounting amounted to $830 a semester). Further, doesn’t include annual parking permit of $360. Also, book award will be phased out. Books cost $300-$750 a semester. So once you add everything up, parents better be prepared to cough up at least $4,000, plus room and board. Numbers are rough, but should be close.
Get rid of pre-K. It’s no more than nursery.
Get rid of anything other than need based
Increase GPA to something better than 3.0, but not as harsh as 3.70.
Grandfather the current graduating class.
Start REDUCING expenses at institutions of higher learning. Let’s see, I believe Mr. Richt makes $3.5 million a year. This is what’s wrong with the system.
To those who espouse that HOPE is a free ride so we should stop complaining, if you’ve got no skin in the game (and you don’t since funds comes from the lottery and not your paycheck), shut up.
PRE-K TEACHER
February 22nd, 2011
8:20 pm
@wearing me out….What knowledge do you have of the pre-k program? Have you taught pre-k or have you actually done any kind of research?
Wearing Me Out
February 22nd, 2011
8:25 pm
I have no doubt that any Pre-K teacher would be an advocate of the program. On the other hand, society had fared reasonably well before Pre-K came into existence. If anything, education has gone downhill for a long time, even with Pre-K. The problem is rooted solely with the parents.
Pre-K teacher/hope recipient
February 22nd, 2011
8:27 pm
wearing me out- You obviously have never set foot inside a lottery funded Pre-K classroom. A third of the students in my class are reading and doing addition problems. Others are still working on more basic skills. All are learning valuable social skills and life skills. I’ve read that some states choose how many beds to have ready in their correctional facilities based on first grade failure rates in reading. Early intervention can prevent more of those failures.
Shar
February 22nd, 2011
8:30 pm
Pre-K teacher/HOPE recipient, college students may have greater earning potential than four year olds, but they are also not the legal responbility of their parents, having achieved the age of 18. Four year olds are. Six hours of pre-K, five days per week may well be far better preparation for kindergarten than some of the alternatives at home, but 30 hours of school per week is excessive for a four year old and does indeed verge on daycare. Now, I am a supporter of quality daycare that permits parents to work, but I don’t think that it should be universally state funded. Means-testing for the Pre-K, which has far more affordable private alternatives than does college, should be instituted as well as cutting out nap time and sending such tiny kids home to sleep.
PRE-K TEACHER
February 22nd, 2011
8:34 pm
I advocate because I know the results. You have no idea what goes on inside of Pre-K classroom if you compare it to “nursery school”. Shall we also say that students needing HOPE is a “problem rooted solely with parents” as well? With that frame of thought, the parents should make sure their children earn a high enough GPA to ensure a scholarship. With that they will not need HOPE.