Michelle Rhee on vouchers, social promotion and putting kids first
Michelle Rhee speaks to Georgia lawmakers Thursday. Jason Getz jgetz@ajc.com
Former DC schools chancellor Michelle Rhee appealed to both ends of the political spectrum today in her visit to the Georgia Capitol, touting vouchers to provide low-income children with options beyond failing neighborhood schools and a strong federal Department of Education to hold schools accountable.
Rhee’s theme throughout her comments was the need to put students first. “We have been putting the system first for 30 years and look where that has gotten us,” she said.
And her new education organization — created she says to counter the influence of teacher unions, textbook publishers and other special interests focused on adult agendas – is called StudentsFirst.
Her take-no-prisoners style of public school management, which left a wake of ill will in Washington and cost her ex boss, Mayor Adrian Fenty, re-election last year, struck a chord with Georgia lawmakers, many of whom believe that the entrenched education bureaucracy in Georgia has been an obstacle to real reform.
As to her own stormy tenure over DC schools where she says she was known as the “Dragon Lady” and “Teacher Terminator,” Rhee said she believed her tough policies would be accepted “if we just produced actual results…I couldn’t have been more wrong.”
The dysfunctions within public education are not an accident, she said. “There are people who benefit by that dysfunction.”
Rhee recalled her own staff’s dismay when she supported the takeover of low-performing traditional schools under her control by independent charter schools that the district would not control. “My goal is not to protect and preserve the system,” she said. “My goal is to make sure every child gets a great education.”
That’s why, she told House members, she supported Washington’s voucher program. If parents did not win the lottery to enable their child to attend one of Washington’s high-achieving charter schools, Rhee says she didn’t feel it was fair to limit them to a failing public school, a school where she would never send her own two daughters. “Then who I am to deny them a $7,500 voucher to send their child to a great Catholic school,” she said.
Asked about social promotion, Rhee said it was a symptom of a culture too concerned about self-esteem. Showing her Tiger mom stripes, she said, “We have become soft in America.”
In South Korea, from where her family hails, Rhee said the 40 children even in a kindergarten class are ranked academically from first to last, and the No. 1 students are always looking over their shoulders to see if someone is gaining on them. That would never be allowed here, she noted.
Rhee said her two daughters “suck in soccer.” But you would never know it because their rooms are full of ribbons, medals and trophies.. “You would think I was raising the next Mia Hamms,” she said. “We are so busy making children feel good about themselves that we are not spending the time teaching them how to do good.”
(I am updating this blog as the day goes on. Check back for more of Rhee’s visit.)
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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162 comments Add your comment
ID-10-T Error
February 10th, 2011
3:16 pm
What are her ideas for holding PARENTS accountable?!?!
HS Public Teacher
February 10th, 2011
3:17 pm
So…. this woman fails in DC miserably and THAT qualifies her to help Georgia education?
In what crazy mixed up world does this make any sense at all? Oh, yeah – in the world of Georgia republicans!
Jackie T.
February 10th, 2011
3:26 pm
I guess the issue is what did she “fail” – to make peace with the established education bereaucracy or to make differences in students.
I might support a voucher program that includes a means test.
truth hurts
February 10th, 2011
3:29 pm
Then why did her results stink in DC? Tell her to pound sand.
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February 10th, 2011
3:41 pm
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Mid Ga Retiree
February 10th, 2011
3:42 pm
Without hearing the other side of the story, I think Ms. Rhee brings up some mighty interesting points. I don’t doubt that the influence of teacher unions, textbook publishers and other special interests focused on adult agendas is a hinderance to education reform in Georgia. And before someone goes to screaming that we don’t have teacher unions in Georgia, I’ll concede that point. However, the “professional teacher organizations” sure swing a big stick when it comes to the debate on holding teachers more accountable for student success. If anyone has any ideas about how to hold parents accountable, I’m all for hearing it. In the meantime, just because we haven’t yet come up with a plan for parent accountability doesn’t mean we shouldn’t go forward with developing teacher accountability plans.
FormerChipmunk
February 10th, 2011
3:46 pm
Just a quick observation, but seems she should change the name of her organization to MichelleFirst. Ironic given all that she speaks of taking adult egos and agendas out of education.
Springdale Park Elementary Parent
February 10th, 2011
3:47 pm
She fought for the right things. ESPECIALLY charters and vouchers.
No parent should have to sacrifice their child’s future on the altar of public education–especially not when the field is overflowing with crooks and mediocre teachers. It’s a giant swamp and Rhee is trying to drain it. And what do some teachers on this blog want to focus on? Her lack of people skills. Hey, nice analysis!
Rhee didn’t “fail” in DC–she pissed people off. If she had indeed failed, nobody would by flying her Tiger Mom a$$ in today to give speeches. She made enemies in DC and wound up appropriately chastened. But in every room she entered in Georgia today, she was the smartest one there.
It’s time for professionals and grown-ups to grab the reins, and we are going to turn the public schools into the meritocracy they always should have been. Those of you who are upset and afraid: you should be. Your cheese is about to get MOVED.
catlady
February 10th, 2011
3:49 pm
“Rhee said she believed her tough policies would be accepted “if we just produced actual results…I couldn’t have been more wrong.”
What she was wrong about was claiming results THAT DIDN’T HAPPEN. Hard to get street cred if you don’t EARN it.
Rhee’s theme throughout her comments was the need to put students first. “We have been putting the system first for 30 years and look where that has gotten us,” she said.
Where it has gotten us is a person like her who is idolized like a rock star and is profiting even more egregiously than those she wishes to indict (such as the textbook editors).
“struck a chord with Georgia lawmakers, many of whom believe that the entrenched education bureaucracy in Georgia has been an obstacle to real reform.”
Which just shows how messed up the Georgia lawmakers are. But at least we can’t be microchipped against our will!
HS Public Teacher
February 10th, 2011
3:56 pm
@Sprindale Park Elementary Parent -
You REALLY need to educate yourself on what this woman did and did not do in DC. You REALLY need to find out the facts about what she claims to have accomplished. You REALLY need to stop with your steadfast position until you learn more.
By the way, who DID pay for her to come to Georgia? I’d like to know! And, I REALLY hope that it was none of my tax dollars!!!!
HS Public Teacher
February 10th, 2011
3:59 pm
Rhee fails in DC – Georgia needs her?
Vouchers fail in FL – Georgia needs vouchers?
… and people in Georgia wonder why the nation calls us backwards….
Top School
February 10th, 2011
4:00 pm
Georgia’s Public School Stockholm syndrome is a term used to describe a paradoxical psychological phenomenon wherein sane parents and teachers held as hostages express adulation and have positive feelings towards their political captors that appear irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, essentially mistaking a lack of abuse from their captors as an act of kindness.
The Criminal MENTALITY leading our public schools…HOLDING EVERY PARENT and TEACHER hostage.
http://www.TopPublicSchoolCorruptionAtlanta.com
Ed Johnson
February 10th, 2011
4:00 pm
There is a better way. For example,
Quality Learning Australia
http://www.qla.com.au/pages/AboutQL.html
old school doc
February 10th, 2011
4:00 pm
Public school money going to private schools is just wrong. Period. Do we stop paying for police just because we have crime in our area? Vouchers are not the answer. We are steadily asking teachers to be all things for all kids without asking anything of the family/community. I agree that rotten teachers ought to be fired, but there should also be massive financial incentives for “good” teachers to go to underperforming schools to teach. Otherwise, schools in the low SES schools get the dregs for teachers/administrators, and the community is just plain stuck.
Social promotion must end. It only sets up our kids for failure. Just my 2 cents…
Tonya C.
February 10th, 2011
4:06 pm
I can attest to the failure of vouchers as up until four years ago, I was a native Floridian. Most of the really good schools don’t except them, and the only kids able to take advantage of them mostly came from middle-class and up homes, not the low-income, low-performing kids they were trying to target.
And charter status doesn’t change the makeup of the school or feed its improvement. Up until last year, my son had only attended charter schools. The parents that took advantage of the programs were the ones who actually cared, period. the kids who were assigned to the school but whose parents could have cared less about charter status stayed the same, sorry parents they were.
Tonya C.
February 10th, 2011
4:08 pm
Old Doc:
They tried the auto-transfer system of moving teachers from good schools to bad in FL. It didn’t work. the schools that were failing when we left 4+ years ago are the same ones failing now.
PhillipMarlowe
February 10th, 2011
4:08 pm
“Rhee said her two daughters “suck in soccer.” But you never know it because their rooms are full of ribbons, medals and trophies.. ”
According to Rhee the teacher and admin this is the fault of the soccer coach/teacher.
According to Rhee the mom, this is because she herself isn’t athletic.
She’d like to have it both way, and Ms Downey is all too willing to assist.
Wilders Outdoor former employee
February 10th, 2011
4:15 pm
Did Rhee offer anyone in the Deal family or Ralston family a job today?
Top School
February 10th, 2011
4:16 pm
She needs to stop acting like she wants to be the next KOREAN comedian sensation ( SUCH, A CRUEL RACE ).
Her jokes and debbie snack cake stories are not needed in the chaos of corruption in our Georgia Public Schools. Actually…I think she SUCKS from most of what I’ve watched and read.
Maureen Downey
February 10th, 2011
4:21 pm
@HS Teacher, No tax dollars and she didn’t even eat the free lunch at the House session House members ate and she talked.
Maureen
Kat Mandu
February 10th, 2011
4:21 pm
I say let us keep on keepin on. Just because what we are doing is not working is no reason not to continue. Yes, we can, dig our way out of this hole. Put our shoulder to the wheel and support our teachers union, they know best. We need to spend more money per student. We don’t spend enough, we can afford to spend more.
Let’s all get together right now and support our schools. If poor kids have to attend terrible schools that Just can’t be helped. Maybe we could spend more money on the schools in underperforming areas so the children could be given more educational toys like a laptop, a Playstation, and maybe send them on some field trips to New York and Washington. We can take that money from areas where the kids are doing well, kinda even things up. We need equality in education, average schools for all. Run this women out of town, we know she has no answers. Our schools are doing fine, leave them alone.
Dr. John Trotter
February 10th, 2011
4:25 pm
Michelle Rhee is really not worth commenting on when it comes to public education. She doesn’t have a clue. Her ideas are what are dysfunctional. She was a complete failure in Washington, D. C., and yet our lawmakers are mesmerized by this educational failure. Go figure.
teacher&mom
February 10th, 2011
4:36 pm
Let’s address Ms. Rhee’s rhetoric point-by-point…
Rhee: “We have been putting the system first for 30 years and look where that has gotten us,”
Me: Well, while public education is not perfect, it has managed to educate a large number of Noble Prize winners, scientists, doctors, nurses, educators, artists, musicians, computer whizzes, astronauts, researchers, entrepreneurs, etc. Not so sure the last 30 years have been a complete disaster given the advances in computer technology, medical research, and the list could go on.
Rhee: “The dysfunctions within public education are not an accident, she said. “There are people who benefit by that dysfunction.”
Me: Of course, Rhee never personally experienced any benefits from the dysfunction. None at all….no magazine covers or donations of 100K to help improve her public image. She stayed above the fray and did not use her position to help the New Teachers Project (NTP is a revenue-generating nonprofit founded by Rhee. The majority of its revenue comes from contracts with districts and states to supply services; additional funding for new program development and research is provided by donors such as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation). No dysfunction noted here. *that’s sarcasm in case you missed it*
Rhee: “Rhee recalled her own staff’s dismay when she supported the takeover of low-performing traditional schools under her control by independent charter schools that she would not control.”
Me: Well I’ll just let Rhee speak for herself on this one: “I’m a fan of effective charter schools, but don’t think that a system of ALL charter schools will solve the problem. Specifically, now the DCPS elementary schools are outperforming the charter elementary schools. When the spread of achievement in charters is as broad as it is, that’s a problem. All charters are not successful and the failing ones water down the impact of great ones (like KIPP and EL Haynes). Therefore, I don’t think just chartering all of the schools are the answer.
Of course, independent chartering has a strong financial incentive for stockholders. Just ask Kaplan K12 and others who have realized that education is the next big thing for investors.
BTW… the soccer story has been repeated one time too many. Ms. Rhee may want to come up with another example. I think this is the fourth or fifth time I have read that her girls suck at soccer. Also, the using the word “suck” is really in poor taste. I tell my students that words like suck, or words that rhyme with suck, are sure signs of unimaginative minds.
Maureen Downey
February 10th, 2011
4:40 pm
@teacher, I am always surprised when speakers deliver the same memorable comments as I, too, have read her soccer comments. (They are clever comments.)
But she is not the only one. I have covered dozens of famed politician/orators only to hear them deliver the same speech I heard them deliver three years earlier.
Maureen
teacher&mom
February 10th, 2011
4:41 pm
Not to leave out our GA legislators:
“struck a chord with Georgia lawmakers, many of whom believe that the entrenched education bureaucracy in Georgia has been an obstacle to real reform.”
Seriously? Entrenched education bureaucracy? You’ve called the shots for 8 years. Kathy Cox was your puppet! Perdue owned the State Board of Education. I think you might want to point that finger at the Gold Dome….
teacher&mom
February 10th, 2011
4:47 pm
I’d like to start a fundraising campaign to invite Diane Ravitch and Yong Zhoa to speak at the Gold Dome. Any takers?
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/Bridging-Differences/?intc=thed
http://zhaolearning.com/
Maureen Downey
February 10th, 2011
4:49 pm
Folks, I do think Michelle Rhee has a mythology around her that is not borne out by the facts. (See this Post blog today: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/michelle-rhee/missing-the-point-on-rhee.html)
However, I admire her willingness to speak out for students. One of my early years covering the Legislature, a teacher group gave me its goals. There wasn’t a single one on the list that had anything to do with student achievement. I recall being struck by that. (That has since changed dramatically and now the goals are all about student achievement.)
But Rhee has always made student achievement and students the focus. The question, at least to me, is did she really put students first when she alienated teachers? Can you talk about student needs without talking about what teachers need?
Rhee admits that she has a long list of mistakes. Her first, she says, was allowing her reforms to be framed as what to do about ineffective teachers rather than about how to keep and reward good teachers. And she did raise pay for teachers who were deemed highly effective.
Maureen
Top School
February 10th, 2011
4:52 pm
Also, the using the word “suck” is really in poor taste. I tell my students that words like suck, or words that rhyme with suck, are sure signs of unimaginative minds…
I agree…”She sucks” and quacks like a duck…
Veteran teacher, 2
February 10th, 2011
4:55 pm
So what real reforms are wanted by the Georgia lawmakers? Top-down legislation is not the way to win friends and influence people.
Top School
February 10th, 2011
4:58 pm
Isn’t she the one that put tape over the mouths of her students
or was she the one that put “ALL THE BROWN BABIES” in the basement of the school?
Reich? or Rhee?
http://www.youtube.com/user/TopSchoolAtlanta#p/u/5/0tCFMSuQBTQ
teacher&mom
February 10th, 2011
5:00 pm
@Maureen: I have no doubt that Rhee tends to stick with her “prepared” speeches.
In fact, I’d bet money that Anita Dunn insists Rhee repeat the same speech/rhetoric over and over….just like a good politician.
She’s not known for her stellar “off-the-cuff” comments which have a tendency to land her in hot water and expose the real Michelle Rhee.
Of course, 100K to fine tune your public image is always helpful….
fed up in DCSS
February 10th, 2011
5:03 pm
@springdale park elementary parent — “in every room she entered in Georgia today, she was the smartest one there” doesn’t say much when the only people there were Georgia Republicans.
Can’t you people see what’s goin on. Both sides are pushing their own agendas and neither side really has the best interests of the kids at heart. The left is in bed with the teachers’ unions, protecting all the incompetent teachers and the right is only interested in pushing vouchers, school choice, and teacher accountability as the solutions to every problem in public education. Meanwhile the schools are being run by a bunch of idiots, with their phony balony phd’s from all the online diploma mills, who don’t have a clue what they are doing.
It is really sad. I used to really look forward to every day, going to school and working with my kids. Now I just want to retire. That is if the state of Georgia doesn’t file for bankruptcy in order to rid itself of its underfunded pension obligations.
Maureen Downey
February 10th, 2011
5:03 pm
@teacher. Not sure she sticks to prepared speeches and she takes a lot of questions from the audience, but I do think she is an accomplished speaker and knows what resonates. Off now to see her at Peachtree Hope Charter.
I will post later on her session there.
Maureen
Tony
February 10th, 2011
5:05 pm
One thing from your remarks with which I can agree – we have become too soft! This is NOT a symptom schools alone can fix. This problem begins at home and is frequently one that parents drag into the school house as they attempt to convince us we are being too hard on their child. Whether it is academic or discipline, too many adults have lowered the bar for their children.
Charters and vouchers are not solutions, either. Charter schools have no better track record. We have plenty of high performing public schools and they far outnumber high performing private schools or charter schools. The problem with the continual use of the charters as a solution links back to the fact that these schools DO NOT have to take all students.
The hard realities of public schools are being ignored by the focus on these two ideas. There are no miracles – hard work by all parties is required.
GA Teach
February 10th, 2011
5:06 pm
The teacher associations have no bargaining rights. It’s kinda like screaming at a deaf dog
MikeyD
February 10th, 2011
5:07 pm
@Maureen -
Why won’t the legislature open their doors to a meeting with those who care about education and don’t have the ulterior motive of talking up their new project? I’m talking about teachers. I’ve been trying for over a month to get a few words with my local senator and representative and also with Ed Lindsey. While Rep. Lindsey has answered emails with the promise of a conversation for over a month now, the actual conversation has yet to take place. From my own senator and representative, my messages have not been acknowledged or returned.
Our leaders could easily invite Teachers of the Year from different regions of the state and actually listen to what they say. Dr. Smogorinsky, who has had some incredible insights here on your blog, would be a wonderful resource for our government leaders. All of these people could give our legislators some real-world lessons and advice. Why hasn’t this happened? It sure seems like they have already identified the agenda (Rhee-Hames) and are now only interested in listening to those who would tell them how correct they are. Our “leaders” are willingly ignoring the other side of the debate.
Top School
February 10th, 2011
5:09 pm
Signs of APS Stockholm Syndrome…Maureen…
Rhee admits that she has a long list of mistakes.
However, I admire her willingness to speak out for students.
Michelle Rhee has a mythology around her that is not borne out by the facts.
There wasn’t a single one on the list that had anything to do with student achievement. I recall being struck by that.
But she is not the only one…
did she really put students first when she alienated teachers?
MAUREEN- How long will you be held hostage by these unethical educational leaders?
Most of what Rhee states in the first 15 minutes of speaking sums her up. She MAKES TOO TOO TOO MANY MISTAKES.
I would not leave this person in charge of collecting my mail while I was on vacation…let alone the education of my child.
Top School
February 10th, 2011
5:14 pm
Something is in the Georgia water….
Georgia’s Public School Stockholm syndrome is a term used to describe a paradoxical psychological phenomenon wherein sane parents and teachers held as hostages express adulation and have positive feelings towards their political captors that appear irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, essentially mistaking a lack of abuse from their captors as an act of kindness.
The Criminal MENTALITY leading our public schools…HOLDING EVERY PARENT and TEACHER hostage.
http://www.TopPublicSchoolCorruptionAtlanta.com
Top School
February 10th, 2011
5:16 pm
WOW…THIS MAKES AN IMPRESSION FOR ME…
Maureen Downey
February 10th, 2011
4:21 pm
@HS Teacher, No tax dollars and she didn’t even eat the free lunch at the House session House members ate and she talked.
Maureen
tar and feathers party
February 10th, 2011
5:17 pm
I luv it when the teachers start blaming the parents for Johnny’s failure to learn to read…..yo teach, that is your job, not mom and dad’s. Teachers are spoiled by the East Cobb Bubble, where all the kids are well above average, and go to school already knowing how to read, write, and compute. The Atlanta school teachers want the same from their inner city losers, but it ain’t a gonna happen. We are paying the teachers to teach reading, writing and computing – and they fail miserable at that simple job. Fire em all and start over, this time with smart teachers, not just the black ones.
What's Best for Kids?
February 10th, 2011
5:21 pm
Mikey D. Keep calling Lindsay. Keep emailing him.
CharterStarter
February 10th, 2011
5:32 pm
Tough crowd. I applaud Maureen for being open to Rhee’s positions, which Maureen has accurately recorded. I will open myself up as another target by saying I agree with Rhee – the system is broken and cannot be trusted to fix itself. We need external influence. Parents are an excellent influence on the system and should be given more of a voice. Choice (I support both charters and vouchers) will give them that voice. Legislators (of both parties) are the correct people to give more control to parents. After all, they write the laws and pass the budgets – both of which are necessary to govern and to fund public education. This is not about the GOP. It is about the students – the very thing Rhee is talking about. Change is hard. The messenger is seen as a threat. Don’t believe me? Read almost every comment above mine!
Go, Michelle!
sissyuga
February 10th, 2011
5:34 pm
Rhee is good at one thing: Making sound bites that generate talk. What makes her an expert? She was in one movie and the representatives under the gold dome are like flies on a rib roast. Why not ask professors in our colleges of education about reform? Another factor the representatives need to look at is fifty percent of our student population is black and hispanic. The black students are coming from one parent households and have a whole host of issues… I, as a teacher need more support in dealing with these students. First, lower class size and give me support personnel for small group teaching. Did you know that Rhee said that a way for systems to save money is to raise the class size bc “an effective teacher” could handle it. Really? I am sure that is just what the people under the gold dome wanted to hear (if she said that same BS to them).
Former Middle School Teacher
February 10th, 2011
5:35 pm
Teachers have not framed one minute of the educational process in this state. People should not confuse Central office personnel with front line teachers. We are told what to do and what to teach. I do agree on the social promotion, and the whole “self esteem” fiasco. I inform my students that they will feel good about them selves because of achievement, you get no prize for doing what is expected.
Former Middle School Teacher
February 10th, 2011
5:38 pm
I really don’t understand the clamor for vouchers? In many places there is no choice. I could see them working in large urban areas, but not in rural ones. Besides it would not help the low achievers, who would probably not take advantage of them do to transportation issues. I have yet to see a private school come out ask for vouchers, they don’t want all children.
WHAT IS
February 10th, 2011
5:42 pm
SHE SELLLING?
td
February 10th, 2011
5:47 pm
I have seen a great deal of complaining about what someone thinks we should do but, besides some parental responsibility, I have not seen many solutions offered.
Atlanta mom
February 10th, 2011
6:10 pm
Vouchers? All you voucher folks think you’re going to get your child into a good school and vouchers will pay for it? In DC over 80% of the students with vouchers went to a religious school. Is that where we want our money going?
Tweets that mention Michelle Rhee on vouchers, social promotion and putting kids first | Get Schooled -- Topsy.com
February 10th, 2011
6:15 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Justin B., Russ Moore. Russ Moore said: Strong words: The dysfunctions within public education are not an accident, she said. “There are people who… http://fb.me/Sp03NYE8 [...]
Toto: Exposing naked body scanners...
February 10th, 2011
6:24 pm
Want to fix public schools by fall semester?
Go Egyptian. Home school en masse.
Veteran teacher, 2
February 10th, 2011
6:28 pm
@td Here is a start:
1. Have all stakeholders agree that education is important and support that agreement with ACTION.
2. Have all stakeholders agree on a REASONABLE curriculum K-12. Stick with the curriculum regardless of outside criticism. Expect teachers to teach the curriculum, and expect students to FULLY participate in all activities to the best of their abilities.
3. Provide real enrichment and/or acceleration for faster learners, and provide extended time and instruction for slower learners.
4. Have all stakeholders agree on fair and appropriate assessment of student learning. If this includes high-stakes testing, make sure each test is VALID without question. Stick to the consequences for failure to maintain minimum standards for both the student and the teacher(s) involved.
5. Recognize that the SAT is NOT an achievement test!!! There are some minimal academic skills needed to attain a high score, but the vast majority of students have those skills. The SAT measures analysis and synthesis using the basic skills. All stakeholders agree not to disparage those teachers who atempt to teach high order thinking skills above the minimal basic skills. THE SAT MEASURES HOW A STUDENT THINKS AND APPLIES KNOWLEDGE!
6. Everyone MUST realize that educators cannot have dozens of bosses. Once all of the above is agreed to and implemented, all outside influences are to be ignored. We simply have to stop trying to do what everyone who can gain a headline or a video says needs to happen. This step is probably the most important and can get the most results.
I have been in education in a front-line position for over 30 years. I have heard many veteran educators say the above MANY times. I still find it interesting that except for a few “window-dressing” events, front-line educators are rarely consulted on any solutions to problems. As well, we are told what the problems are, and we are not consulted about articulating the problems, either.
People in every community can tell any who the really good and effective teachers are in that community. We don’t need some kind of fabricated teacher report card given by the state. Every teacher in every community already has a pretty extensive report card in that community. It would not be difficult at all to assemble an all-star cast of the best teachers to articulate problems and effect real solutions with all stakeholders involved.
The question is, are there really any politicians who are willing to implement a comprehensive program of real solutions??
teacher&mom
February 10th, 2011
6:28 pm
Reform ideas?
Acknowledge that poverty does impact child. Then, take a close look at what research shows makes an impact with high-poverty students. Offer excellent training for teachers. Give teachers meaningful and quality time to collaborate with other teachers in schools that are successfully meeting the needs of at-risk students. Quit the one-shot training sessions. Give teachers a choice in the training. Help them become more reflective practitioners.
Create equity in class sizes. Acknowledge that a classroom with 25 at-risk, ESL, and special education students is not a good idea. At the secondary level, an individual teacher may be expected to address the needs of over 100 at-risk students a day. Is it any wonder that too many slip through the cracks?
Provide access to social services for all students so teachers can quickly refer students in need. (Try getting a student a pair of glasses and see how much red tape you have to cut through. It once took over 2 months to get a student a pair of glasses….who, btw, was almost legally blind.)
Understand that some students will not be successful with a 180 day school calendar. Provide funding for summer programs, after school programs, and extended days for teachers.
Realize that many rural students have never stepped foot outside their local area. When you cut funding for field trips, you shut the doors to life changing experiences. How can we encourage a student to attend college if they’ve never stepped foot on a college campus?
Cut standardized testing to the bone (grades 3,5,8) and use the money to bring back daily physical education, art, music, academic support classes, and vocational classes.
Recognize that dramatic improvements will not happen overnight or in a few years. It will be the small, but consistent success stories that will make the most impact.
If legislators want to mandate anything, then mandate that teacher representatives be seated at the table…at the state and local level. Require the local school boards to work with local teacher representatives.
Funding matters. Quit acting like it doesn’t.
HL
February 10th, 2011
6:32 pm
Rhee’s message about putting students first resonates but isn’t that what teachers already do. One thing that is lacking today is respect for the teachers. Everyone can remember a weak teacher but how many praise the majority of good teachers that you had. Most College Graduates can earn more in other fields but stay in the class room because of their love of teaching.
Studies show that class size does make a difference so for Rhee to suggest otherwise seems disingenuous. Vouchers are not a magical answer and would take money out of public education. Do we give vouchers to those who are already paying for private education? Does that mean we would now use our tax dollars to fund Lovett, Marist or any of the other fine private schools?
Top School
February 10th, 2011
6:36 pm
Just replace the names from Egyptian leadership to Atlanta’s Leadership and it’s the same story…amazing…
Beverly Hall refused to step down or leave the school system immediately and instead handed her powers to her deputy superintendent Thursday, remaining superintendent and ensuring regime control over the reform process. Stunned protesters in Atlanta who demand her ouster waved their shoes in contempt and shouted, “Leave, leave, leave.”
Toto: Exposing naked body scanners...
February 10th, 2011
6:47 pm
BIG SIS ADMITS NAK*ED BO**DY SCAN*NERS ARE A TOTAL FAILURE (my opinion)
We want our money back!
“Her comments were a sobering reminder that the potential of another attack is real and growing, most notably from individuals radicalized inside the United States, despite elaborate security measures implemented by the government since 2001.”
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/janet-napolitano-warns-terror-threat-heightened-sept-11/story?id=12874207
Perhaps she can contract with Apple to insert a portable bo*dy scan**ner in the IMac laptop camera feature.
Remember, the ter*ror=87sts are now youuuuuuu!
Toto: Exposing naked body scanners...
February 10th, 2011
6:52 pm
@ Top School
Excellent post!
Shannon
February 10th, 2011
6:55 pm
If everyone would read and take to heart what teacher&mom posted above, we’d be a LOT better off.
Poverty matters.
Funding matters.
Teachers are professionals. Let them do their jobs; give them an environment where that’s possible.
It seems so elementary, but it’s so right. And we don’t do it. We resist any thought of equity in school system funding… we resist any thought of empowering teachers to do their jobs… we both overwork them and constrain them.
There is not enough money in the WORLD for me to teach in a K-12 school.
ScienceTeacher671
February 10th, 2011
7:11 pm
1. There are no “magic bullets.” Anything that might work will take time, funding, and effort.
2. Education isn’t “one size fits all,” and many of our failures are a result of bureaucrats trying to make it be so. Children learn at different speeds, and we shouldn’t assume that what works with an average middle-class child will work with an average child in poverty or a slow learner, etc.
Toto: Exposing naked body scanners...
February 10th, 2011
7:14 pm
@shannon
You can’t reform a corpse.
Go Egyptian. Home school en masse.
ScienceTeacher671
February 10th, 2011
7:17 pm
Also, the studies of the voucher students in D.C. found no significant improvements in achievement for most of the students who received vouchers, some of the students who received vouchers had already been attending private schools using private scholarships, and students in the worst D.C. schools were the least likely to take advantage of the voucher program.
So why should that program have been continued, and why should we have a voucher program in GA?
Michelle Rhee on vouchers, social promotion and putting kids first … | FIND BEST EDUCATION INFORMATION
February 10th, 2011
7:20 pm
[...] Read the original post: Michelle Rhee on vouchers, social promotion and putting kids first … [...]
BS
February 10th, 2011
7:27 pm
@Top School – SHUT UP!
Atlanta mom
February 10th, 2011
7:43 pm
ScienceTeacher671
Also, the DC vouchers went to only 2% of the school population. Can you imagine what would happen if we suddenly gave vouchers to anyone who asked?
Rhee Fan
February 10th, 2011
8:15 pm
Rhee for DCSS superintendent! Time to shake things up around here.
atlmom
February 10th, 2011
8:15 pm
@old school doc: WHY? Seriously. We take government money and use it to pay for private colleges. Why is it so different for K-12?
Why?
I don’t understand AT ALL. Why can’t a child take a sum of money, and use it however he/she needs to be educated?
IF the voucher system didn’t work in places, okay. But what we’re doing now DOES NOT WORK. Having an elected board isn’t working. There are many cities where whatever they are doing isn’t working.
A one size fits all answer will not work – we are a very diverse country (heck GA is a very diverse state). But what we’ve BEEN doing isn’t working – we need new and innovative ideas.
But just throwing a new curriculum at a system that isn’t working clearly won’t work – GA and other states have been doing that for decades. Something new needs to be thought of.
NWGA teacher
February 10th, 2011
8:18 pm
Michelle Rhee doesn’t put students first. She puts Michelle Rhee first.
ScienceTeacher671
February 10th, 2011
8:35 pm
Atlanta mom, right! But that wasn’t a problem because there weren’t enough private school slots available even if there had been more vouchers!
Plus, most of the private schools in D.C. charged much higher tuition than the vouchers would pay, and vouchers didn’t pay “extra” expenses such as uniforms, transportation, books, fees, etc., which was a problem for low-income students who might have wanted to use vouchers.
Also, vouchers didn’t pay the application fees that the “better” private schools charged. For instance, to apply to Sidwell Friends, parents must pay a $60 application fee, plus provide test scores from an independent testing agency – most charge $300-400 for this service. (Similar policies at the “best” Atlanta-area schools, I believe.)
Top School
February 10th, 2011
9:04 pm
Rhee’s firing of 75 D.C. teachers in 2008 was improper, arbitrator says…
Any teacher that put 75 students out of the school improperly would not be guest at any education luncheon …AND I doubt you would be following her for another story about her mistakes. Her inept leadership cost the taxpayers and the money wasted could have provided educational opportunities due to her ignorance, unethical, and less than democratic leadership.
She should be fined and charged to repay the money spent on the misuse of her position to influence the firing of these teachers.
Top School
February 10th, 2011
9:07 pm
@ BS
Shut up???How rude!
Did I say something that offends you?
Sucks?
Top School
February 10th, 2011
9:07 pm
Rude , crude and socially… unacceptable.
FBT
February 10th, 2011
9:07 pm
There is no need to worry about the children of the parents at tonight’s meeting with Michelle Rhee. These parents already desire and are willing to fight for a high quality education for their children. It’s the children who weren’t represented in the room that I worry about.
Rhee did ask the parents in the room to recruit others. I think it is a good place to start.
FBT
February 10th, 2011
9:16 pm
@Top School- Ms. Rhee says there are two sides to the story and the public is not allowed to she the performance records of the 75 teachers. She also said she did not want to send anyone’s child to a classroom that she didn’t find adequate for her own children. Where would our schools be if every administrator followed her lead? (Not the part where she fired teachers incorrectly.)
Maureen Downey
February 10th, 2011
9:16 pm
@FBT, Were you there? I thought it was a very informed group of parents. I understand the the charter school parents network invited some of the parents to come, and 18 were from Peachtree Hope Charter, according to the principal. But how did the private school parents get the word? (I am wondering about the mom from Ron Clark.)
Maureen
FBT
February 10th, 2011
9:19 pm
@Atlanta Mom- “Can you imagine what would happen if we suddenly gave vouchers to anyone who asked?”
1. Empowered parents
2. Better educated children
3. Competition
FBT
February 10th, 2011
9:26 pm
Yes, I was there tonight. I don’t know how the private school parents got the word. I did speak with the mother from Ron Clark and exchanged info, I will ask how she heard about the meeting.
Top School
February 10th, 2011
9:28 pm
I think you have wrapped this cupcake and given us a napkin, too!
Top School
February 10th, 2011
9:31 pm
@fbt
The fair democratic process in the dismissal…was the part that was ignored.
Did you miss something?
td
February 10th, 2011
9:32 pm
Veteran teacher, 2
February 10th, 2011
6:28 pm
Thank you for putting out some potential solutions. I am pretty sure that one of Dr. Barge’s campaign promises was to listen more to teachers and local BOE’s. I believe he will try if the state BOE gets out of his way.
Top School
February 10th, 2011
9:34 pm
And I would not want my child in her classroom based on that very reason…and tape over the mouth says what is deep seeded in her thinking. I think it is apparent in less than 5 minutes of listening to the rhetoric of her talking about herself.
td
February 10th, 2011
9:34 pm
teacher&mom
February 10th, 2011
6:28 pm
Thank you for putting together some ideas. I do think these are from a far left positions and we have been doing this for years with no results but at least you are looking for solutions and are not just saying no to every idea.
Dr. John Trotter
February 10th, 2011
9:37 pm
Not everyone talking about putting students first are actually putting students first. I agree with the earlier poster. Michelle Rhee, in my opinion, is putting Michelle Rhee first.
td
February 10th, 2011
9:43 pm
I went to the forum during the campaign cycle and thought Kara Willis had the best thought. She said that we no matter how many programs we put together and no matter how much money we put into education. We would not see real improvement until we had a cultural change to a point that every parent thinks and enforces education as the highest priority in a child’s life.
Instead of our politician and educrats trying to come up with new curriculum and test they should be spending their time and money out in the communities talking about how important education is and convincing parents of the importance of making it their number one priority. This is when you will see real improvement in education. JMO
teacher&mom
February 10th, 2011
10:00 pm
@td….me? Far-left? I just read your comment to my husband and he laughed out loud. Did you just give me a condescending pat on the head?
Out of curiosity….what exactly on my list is far-left? Quality teacher training and support? Refusing to pack a high school classroom with 35+ at risk students and asking the teacher to be successful? Giving teachers a voice in policy making? Or is acknowledging that poverty is a legitimate factor in too many GA schools a “far-left” ideology?
For the record, I teach in a rural system with approximately a 65% free and reduced lunch and the solutions I offered have NOT been tried extensively in my district. Oh, they’ve dabbled around the edges but lack of funds and changing state and federal mandates always seem to get in the way.
BTW…I personally consider myself to be a middle-of-the-road kind of gal…..and I voted for Willis.
one second
February 10th, 2011
10:22 pm
so this Rhee chick put a bunch of stuff on her resume that was not exactly true; and she is getting rewarded for it?? Basically, from what Im reading, is that she is a self promoter; pandering to whomever she is talking too. Rhee wants to put “students first” but pay her firm/organization to come in and tell you how to do things because of her success that she claims on her resume. Anybody else see something WRONG here?
FBT
February 10th, 2011
10:30 pm
I was most impressed by the parents at tonight’s meeting.
B. Killebrew
February 10th, 2011
10:35 pm
Everything that teacher&mom said.
And yes, we need Diane Ravitch and Yong Zhao to speak in Georgia. Count me in.
td
February 10th, 2011
11:06 pm
teacher&mom
February 10th, 2011
10:00 pm
Not trying to be condescending and if I came off that way then I apologise.
These are the terms that came off as liberal: ” Create equity in class sizes”, “access to social services”. The biggest thing is the calling for substantially increasing funding to education.
We are spending about 50% of our state resources on education and that has increased substantially over the past 20 years and what results do we see? Are our children substantially better educated now?
I do not think the teachers of today are not the worse than the teachers 20 years ago. In some cases they are probably smarter, work harder and are better prepared. I said in an earlier post that Ms. Willis had a great thought and as a conservative just can not justify throwing more money after bad money (because I do not believe it will change anything) until the leadership of our state and education system goes in that direction.
Overly Involved Mom
February 10th, 2011
11:18 pm
I attended the parent meeting tonight with Rhee. It was incredible. Anyone who is a parent with school aged children in Atlanta would have found something positive in the dialogue tonight. Say what you want to say about her, when most of us have gone back to our comfortable lives, she’s still out on the front lines fighting for students. I’m sure someone will have something sarcastic to say about this post and that’s fine….I attend the school board meetings, I volunteer every week (if not every day) in my child’s school, I volunteer in our neighborhood schools where my kids don’t even attend, I attend the PTA conventions and APS parent meetings…I’m always around and always involved and the points she made tonight were exactly what many posters on this blog have said they wanted to see from their schools over the past year. She came to Georgia today because she was invited by the Georgia parents on the Students First site. In all of my years being involved with GA education, this was the first time I sat in a meeting about education where the focus was solely on the betterment of students. If nothing else, I thank her for a night that was all about the kids.
GoodforKids
February 10th, 2011
11:30 pm
I agree with Shannon and B. Killebrew in their support of comments by teacher&mom.
td- what does “equity in class sizes” and “access to social services” mean to you? And why are you against them? (sincere question).
I saw teacher&mom as simply wanting class sizes that enable teachers to reach kids and
less obstacles to help a child see so they can learn. I know schools can’t do it all, but if the child is sitting in your building with no regular access to a bath, not enough food in their stomach, no glasses to see, or whatever the case may be, WE ALL benefit if we clear the way to help that young child get ready to learn.
If only Diane Ravitch instead of Michelle Rhee…I will have to look up Yong Zhao. I will support that effort!
Public & Private Parent
February 10th, 2011
11:41 pm
@Maureen @FBT Just now reading the comments above….I am the “mom from Ron Clark.” I am ALSO the “mom from an APS school” where I’ve served in more volunteer capacities over the past 4 1/2 years than I can name LOL.
How did I hear about the meeting? When it was noted in the AJC that she would be here this week I sent her a tweet asking if there would be any events for parents. She’s always great when it comes to Twitter and she put me in contact with the organizers. They asked me to also invite other public school parents to attend, which I did. Fantastic meeting.
Now Maureen, if you were in there, surely you heard me speak about my PUBLIC school experience and how/why we chose private for one child this year. Not sure how I’ve gotten solely on the list of just private school parents. And if memory serves me correctly there were a few parents, during introductions, who said they had kids in public and private school in Atlanta.
Peggy Carter
February 11th, 2011
12:50 am
I am tired of people who complain and do nothing about it. We are not getting any better because we live in a cycle of negativity. People in this blog get out and do something about the issues. We have become a country that gossips and sabotage. Let’s see the positive side: she has made education a topic of conversation in levels it wasn’t before. She doesn’t have to be right all the time because she is not trying to convince us she is perfect. She is trying to make us think about education on a different way. I appreciate that.
another comment
February 11th, 2011
12:57 am
Tonight I was attending the Open House at my daughter’s Public School that is over 50% free lunch with 40% Black; 40% Hispanic; 12% White; 5% Asian and 3% White or something like that. Only about 5-10% of the parents showed up to the open house. Can you guess what the make up of that crowd is about 65% white, 20% asian, 5% Black, 5% other ( mostly Mixed with White mothers). It is the same mix that changes up for the student Athelete above 3.0 awards breakfast, etc… Each class I went into averaged about 6 parents visiting the teachers for a total of the 3 classes they taught.
When I went to 10th grade Honors Lit. Class, I witnessed the 1 black parent trying to coheres the teacher into raising her daughters failing grade in the 20’s. The mother tried to demand she raise the grade. The teacher held her ground and told her she could retake the test on Tuesday. She asked how her daughters grammer could get better. The teacher responded that her daughters scores and evaluations for reading and grammer showed that she lacked reading comprehension. The teacher said her daughter needed to read and read more to improve. The mother becomes defensive and says my daughter doesn’t like to read. The teacher rightly responded that this is Honors Lit. it requires heavy reading and reading is the basis of learning. Your daughter must learn to love to read. She needs to find what she likes to read and read it or she will not do well in the rest of school and life.
When she left, I intoduced my daughter as the girl who is reading as at the 12th grade level on your reading evaluation. I told her my daughter told me it was sad to see that day how bad some of the other students had done on the reading evaluation that they could not read even close to on level. The teacher told me she is so ticked that they keep putting these kids in honors classes that are so far from even being on level. She then told me that she was proud of my daughter and her group today for making up the work of a group project despite the fact that one of the 4 team members was suspended from school. She said most of the groups would have just not done it and used that as and excuse. She also told me that she is making a list to give to the Administration of the kids who should not be put in Honors classes next year if they manage to pass this year.
Peggy Carter
February 11th, 2011
1:02 am
I also attended the parent tonight. I emailed the admin account of the website about a month ago and I have been in touch with Michelle Rhee’s staff since. I asked them several times when was she coming and finally I received a flyer with an invitation. I have a toddler and already worried about schools so I am trying to stay involved.
I felt empowered and energized. The parents in the room were incredible, the principal of that school was incredible and Michelle Rhee too.
Anthony Krinsky
February 11th, 2011
1:20 am
Public schools are the biggest employer in most towns. Understandably, many people feel threatened by the idea of changing the way we evaluate teachers, by putting students first. And they get out onto these boards to mock meaningful reforms. What they forget and what we know is that schools are for kids. Students come first. I wish it weren’t so hard to stand up to these bullies, but it is and we must. Michelle Rhee is the first public figure in a long time to flaunt the gag rule on talking about real changes in public education. Getting rid of crappy teachers is a huge part of it and makes a huge improvement in school culture and student learning. The teacher unions spend $2 billion per year telling us that everything is fine and people like Michelle are crazy. She is not. Thank god for her courage. The kids need our courage and conviction. We must speak up for them.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta
February 11th, 2011
5:27 am
Anthony Krinsky,
The last three sentences in your 1:20 A.M. post speak volumes.
May
February 11th, 2011
7:58 am
As a non-educator but concerned parent, I guess I have been naive. I don’t think the system is working for any of our kids. When the top performing children in the US are still ranked outside the top countries in the world I have to ask who thinks this is working? Go Michelle! Keep talking! Use that platform that I think many on this blog are jealous of and make waves!
Public & Private Parent
February 11th, 2011
8:24 am
I forgot to mention that PeachTree Charter looked like an AMAZING school last night. I pass it several times a week taking the kids to after school activities and we watched as it was built. What a wonderful way to use that piece of land and building. I was blown away by the principal who was on fire for education reform. The children who escorted us to our room gave us a great mini-tour as we walked. The parents there sounded very happy with their school choice. I can’t wait to learn more about this specific charter. Looks like an absolutely wonderful place to learn.
atlmom
February 11th, 2011
8:53 am
The reality is many parents *do* have school choice – I can choose where I live, or I can choose to live in a less expensive neighborhood and send my kids to private school, etc…
Some people live hand to mouth. Some people choose where they live because that’s all they can afford. Some people can’t move often, as it costs money (i have an incredibly left leaning friend who not so long ago said something like: i don’t get it, if parents are in a bad school district, why don’t they just move? Um, cause that’s like saying: let them eat cake).
Why is it only ‘privileged’ kids get to go to good schools? Hmmm? The president has school choice.
I’m not saying that vouchers are the answer…but why not vouchers for *just* public schools? Charter schools work where they have a ‘district’ then they open up the remaining spots for any kids in the larger school system. We need SOME SORT of competition….because what we have isn’t working.
Someone mentioned Kira Willis above (the libertarian candidate for State School Superintendent). – I emailed the APS board members and told them that they should consider her for APS superintendent. Of course I got no answer. She’s not part of the group of people that would be looked at. She’s not who the ’search committee’ (that we have to spend 100s of thousands on) will come up with. Because she will be new and different. and bring new and different ideas. that is SO NOT what they are looking for…
Tony
February 11th, 2011
9:00 am
Before I became a teacher, I was a chemist. Part of the history of chemistry is rooted in alchemy. The more I read some of the junk put forth by Rhee, Gates Foundation, Broad, our politicians, and other so-called leaders, the more I’m convinced they think we can actually turn “lead” into “gold”.
Tony
February 11th, 2011
9:01 am
All we have to do is work harder, and it will happen.
2 cents
February 11th, 2011
9:18 am
wow, there is one born every minute; ppl have bought into the koolaid, hook, line, and sinker.
I am an educator, I am an expert in education, I have been featured numerous times in newspapers most notably in the AJC so I really know what I’m talking about. How do you like my resume so far?
Here is my platform; I will FIRE all teachers until I can get an increase in test scores just like my students did when I taught. I will accuse all teachers of being lazy, sexual abuse, or anything else I can think of at the moment. I will tape my students mouth shut, cause I can not think of another way to keep them quiet.
Unions are evil; they are of the devil. You must not play foseball.
Do ppl out there really believe this hype.
Some are saying we are the doom sayers; I think the american education system is still the best in the world; you compare our best to their best we win.
teacher&mom
February 11th, 2011
9:38 am
@td…No offense taken.
I’m assuming you are not in the classroom? Please correct me if I am wrong.
I’m not necessarily advocating “more” money. I am advocating the money we are given be spent more wisely and require more teacher input into how it is spent. Folks outside of education probably don’t realize how many strings are attached to funding. I’ve said it before and I’ll repeat it again. It is a disgrace that I can purchase test prep materials easier than a decent set of novels or lab supplies.
I also think the general public doesn’t realize how much the education budget was gutted during the Perdue administration. PAGE actually has a great article that breaks down the budget “adjustments” in their Jan/Feb. magazine.
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/0c7f6366#/0c7f6366/1
Maureen Downey
February 11th, 2011
9:38 am
@2 cents, Having seen Michelle Rhee in three settings yesterday, I can vouch for her ability to relate. But nowhere was she more effective than with the 50 parents at the DeKalb charter school. And the reason is that she acknowledges and affirms what these parents have experienced, that their kids were not doing well in public schools and no one seemed to care. (By the way, one of the chief complaints was not that the kids weren’t doing well, but that their kids weren’t doing as well as they could have been. The kids were respectful and quiet and did fine so their parents said they were brushed aside and not challenged and allowed to gaze out the window most of the day.)
Is her mythology supported by gossamer pillars? Yes, but is her message relevant to many, many parents?
Yes.
Maureen
B. Killebrew
February 11th, 2011
9:45 am
Maureen,
Millions of people have the extraordinary ability to “relate.”
This does not mean that whatever they say should be given a platform as if it is gospel–especially if what they espouse is misinformed, incorrect, falsified, and dangerous.
CharterStarter
February 11th, 2011
9:53 am
I observe that only Maureen, me and a handful of others (parents) had anything nice to say about Ms. Rhee. There is a lot of spleen venting by educators, which I understand and is a symptom of a completely broken and mostly dysfunctional system. The bedrock of that system is caring, competent teachers – the very people from whom we are hearing! I would think that teachers would support a reform effort that:
1. gives teachers a real voice (that’s what charters do, especially if the teachers help create the charter).
2. rewards the best teachers with additional compensation.
These points seem to me to be core values in Rhee’s reform platform, and in Gates, Broad, et al.
For my part, in every charter I help start, I do what I can to set teachers free to teach!
CharterStarter
February 11th, 2011
9:55 am
The trick is to link the expectation of parents, which is admittedly a very high bar (as it should be) with the performance of teachers. I think a system which recognizes and values parents and teachers – but not one over the other – is going to help our children succeed at the highest level possible.
Maureen Downey
February 11th, 2011
9:55 am
@B, I don’t think millions of people have the ability to relate and the ability to articulate the problem as well as Rhee. She is a very smart, personable and driven. She sees herself as a problem solver. And considering that she saw a problem with teacher recruitment and created the well respected New Teacher Project as a very young woman testifies to her ability to not only respond to a cause, but to rally thousands of other people.
As to the complaint here that her goal is self-promotion, I disagree. There is little glamour in a 15-hour day talking to local state lawmakers, editorial writers and parents with no time for meals. I think she is a crusader and believes strongly in her cause. Doesn’t mean she’s right. But I think this is a mission for her, not a means to simply get her name out there.
Maureen
MikeyD
February 11th, 2011
10:00 am
@Maureen:
Do you not think she was doing a little self-promotion when she allegedly fudged some info about her “miraculous” rise in test scores when she was taping students, I mean teaching students?
Public Education Advocate
February 11th, 2011
10:05 am
@teacher&mom: Thanks for your excellent comments. The problems facing education in Georgia and the U.S. are complex. Those problems are not now — nor have they ever been — amenable to one easy or formulaic answer, whether it be charter schools, vouchers, “more funding,” standardized testing or teacher accountability. Nor is anyone served by blaming and vilifying individuals or groups (including teachers, administrators, parents, charter school proponents, etc.), who have committed great amounts of time, effort, and skill (if not their entire careers) to improving children’s educational outcomes.
Great teaching matters. Parenting matters. Poverty matters. Community matters. School leadership matters. Curriculum matters. Resources and school funding matter. Each of these factors, and many others, impact the educational achievement of our children, but none alone is an explanation for why many children are not adequately educated. The fact that the problems are complex is why there is no excuse for our pretending that some simple “magic bullet” will cure everything that ails us or pretending that all we have to do is to rid the educational system of some imaginary “evil villains” who care nothing about children and are dedicated solely to their own selfish goals.
AJinCobb
February 11th, 2011
10:08 am
@Public Education Advocate,
Yes!
atlmom
February 11th, 2011
10:11 am
@teacher and mom: YES! You are SO correct. I mean, WHY OH WHY do we have to send tax dollars to the feds, then BEG them (well, only *some* schools are even eligible to beg them!) – for money!?!?!? It’s absurd. And it costs SO MUCH money to funnel all that through the feds. If we just kept it here, there would be so many fewer administrative costs. It makes sure that the schools are dependent on the federal govt. It’s gross, and treats the school like a child.
Have the Dept of Ed ( a VERY SMALL ONE) ONLY for creating standards, that local schools can use or not. Don’t have them in the business of deciding which schools are worthy of their money. It’s gross.
Maureen Downey
February 11th, 2011
10:18 am
@MikeyD, I can tell you that yesterday she was very restrained in describing her own success with students, saying only that she got them “where they were supposed to be.”
The problem with her statements about her students’ performance on tests — unmasked recently by a teacher blogger G.F. Brandenburg, a retired D.C. math teacher — is that her principal and co-teacher also endorsed the claims of success. I find her own story about taping her kids’ mouths bizarre and would love to know more about that. I heard the snippet of her speech to young teachers where she relayed that first-year horror story, but wondered if she was exaggerating for their benefit.
Maureen
By the way, I tried putting in a link to Brandenburg but got an error message this morning. Here is the URL. It might work later today:
http://gfbrandenburg.wordpress.com/2011/01/31/the-rhee-miracle-examined-again-by-cohort/
atlmom
February 11th, 2011
10:41 am
Honestly, she was only there a couple of years, correct? The DC system, from what I understand, is even worse than Atlanta’s, if that’s possible. How could anyone turn it around in two years? That’s a crazy idea.
But if we keep doing what we’ve been doing, we’re going to keep getting what we’ve got.
Maureen Downey
February 11th, 2011
10:45 am
@atlmom, I talked to a national education expert about her tenure and he made the same point: She was there too short a time to make real change, but there were signs of improvement that were promising under her reign. And those positive signs were the first in many years in the district.
Maureen
Tonya C.
February 11th, 2011
10:51 am
atlmom:
You and the other parents here are NOT getting what teachers here are saying:
If we keep doing what we’re doing, we ARE going to keep getting what we got. They are saying that what we are doing IS WRONG and that changes need to be made. But no one is asking the soldiers how to win the war! Heck, they are even bypassing the generals at this point.
Public Education Advocate says it right: there is no one size fits all approach. Unfortunately, teachers are in a bind because lately that is what is desired, catering to the middle-of-the-road. The smartest students aren’t getting challenged, and the lowest not being served. But the way that educators, you would think that the majority are the next worse thing than the devil himself. Did you see what one teacher wrote about contacting legislators for a meeting or even a phone conversation, and the lack of response received? That is indicative of the attitudes of so many in the Gold Dome about public education. One-way conversations with no taste or desire to hear other alternatives from those that JUST MIGHT have an idea of what they are talking about.
atlmom
February 11th, 2011
11:03 am
@Tonya: I hear ya! That’s what I’m saying, too. Get rid of most of the administrators, and let teachers teach. It’s a crying shame. You hire someone to be in the classroom – to teach the kids. Then you don’t let them teach!
Because of oversight committees, ethics committees more and more committees to oversee and whatever.
It’s crazy. And half the administration does NOTHING. The administration SAYS they are student facing, to inflate the numbers of administrators who have child contact. When in fact, they don’t. And the teachers get more and more annoyed. I definitely hear you!
The point is, getting something from ‘on high’ (the federal govt or the state) isn’t working. For those districts that want it, great, but many want to just be LEFT ALONE to teach the students how it works for them.
Echo
February 11th, 2011
11:28 am
For those who still don’t get it…
If all you desire is for students to score well in some multiple choice standardized test, I will teach the kids how to take a multiple choice standardized test.
If you want to put all levels of students, from the brightest of the bright to the ones who can barely function in society in one classroom, I will teach to get the lowest ones as close to “average” as I can. Everyone else will have to hope I get a minute of time between telling kids to stop hitting each other or stealing each other’s materials to actually give the functioning students help or feedback. After all it is the OVERALL scores you will be looking at…those already at the top will still be there at the end.
If administration insists that I attend meetings and collect invalid & useless data for them to stick in a notebook somewhere, I will. But I won’t have any time to grade papers, provide feedback, plan decent lessons, look for good supplemental materials or set up activities that will work for my students. There are only so many hours in the day…and I’m being required to use them to keep the county office folks happy.
A “word wall”, color coded standards, EQ’s (essential questions) and all the other things posted on my classroom walls required by administration are only important to administrators. The students couldn’t care less and usually don’t pay any attention to those things. Students do like colorful posters depicting concepts we are talking about, concept maps with pictures, models, photos taken by me (and several by students) as examples of things I teach.
If you think Michelle Rhee and other like her are the answer, then you don’t really understand the question.
atlmom
February 11th, 2011
11:47 am
@echo: you sound like you have it about right. One of my biggest peeves is that they don’t take the kids with the worst behaviors out of the school. If you are disrupting classes every minute of the time you are in school – you should not be there. There should be a school for those kids. If you can disrupt class, and not really have any punishment for it, and it’s the only way you have any control of your life, why wouldn’t you do it? Sounds like fun, right?
Take those kids out, let the other kids learn. Simple.
And, you are SO right. I don’t need tests (and weeks and weeks of preparation for them!) to tell me where the good schools are. It’s so obvious to everyone, why do we need the testing?
B. Killebrew
February 11th, 2011
11:55 am
@Maureen:
Which national education expert?
atlmom
February 11th, 2011
12:00 pm
@maureen: and if the ‘establishment’ was unhappy with her, then I have to assume that she was doing something right.
Maureen Downey
February 11th, 2011
12:19 pm
@B, I talked to a researcher on vouchers who is a friend of Rhee’s. (I was talking to him about vouchers and her name came up.)
He thinks she did a good job but that she left far too soon to make any definitive statements about whether she turned around the system, only that she set it in the right direction. He also said the system was a jobs bank for many generations of families and that Rhee took a lot of heat for her firings of folks who felt entitled to jobs since their families had worked for the DC schools for years.
Maureen
Dr NO
February 11th, 2011
12:22 pm
When it some to a solution remember this slogan and chant it often.
“RHEE IS THE KEY, RHEE IS THE KEY”
Ed Johnson
February 11th, 2011
12:42 pm
Beverly Hall rode into town claiming three solid years of school reform would turn APS around. Didn’t happen, couldn’t have happened so she begged off from that by hiring an “education consultant” to say it would take 12-15 years. Didn’t happen, can’t happen. So Rhee needed to stay how many years in DC?
B. Killebrew
February 11th, 2011
12:59 pm
Researcher on vouchers.
Friend of Rhee.
What Goes Around Comes Around
February 11th, 2011
1:31 pm
I agree totally with Ms. Rhee – “The dysfunctions within public education are not an accident, she said. “There are people who benefit by that dysfunction.”
That is evident at APS. They are administrators, book publishers, people who sell school reform programs, principals, board members and even school supporters. PTA presidents have all benefited from the dysfunctions within APS and the students have suffered because of it.
Ms. Rhee knows of what she speaks.
Echo
February 11th, 2011
1:50 pm
No one disagrees with the statement about school dysfunction and who is benefiting from that dysfunction. It seems odd that the only people Rhee went after were the ones not really benefiting…the teachers. The folks at the board office and in the front offices of schools are the ones creating many of the problems while also declaring they have the solutions. Their solution is simply to remove the people who would stop them or expose them, many of those people are teachers. Easy (and MUCH cheaper) to replace a veteran teacher with a freshly minted one out of college…those new ones are a LOT easier to threaten, manipulate or “mold”. All they have to do is simply and consistently spout off that “veteran teachers are resistant to change and are happy with the way things are” to get the ignorant masses to assist in the removal of those “bad teachers”.
atlmom
February 11th, 2011
2:06 pm
@echo: and one gets to pay them much less, too.
I personally think the issue is too many administrators with too many ‘answers.’ I mean, someone in the legislature last week actually said something like: oh, we need an oversight committee and an ethics committee to oversee these school boards. Okay, so ANOTHER layer of administration? REALLY?
I cannot get my head around that.
I have kids in elem school, but have been working with some people at the high school level. AND WOW. it doesn’t seem like too many of them have any idea what happens in a classroom.
MikeyD
February 11th, 2011
2:13 pm
I’d like to know why most of Rhee’s venom is directed at teachers. You want people who put students first? How about those of us who actually work WITH the students? It’s easier than ever to bash educators right now. Heck, our state government has been doing it for a decade now. But at the end of the day, WE are still the ones giving everything we have to these kids. And yet, Michelle Rhee and those like her seem to enjoy poor mouthing teachers at every opportunity. (And our legislators seem to enjoy giving her many opportunities to do so!) Where is her outrage that HALF of the federal funds “won” in rttt will stay at the state level and never have an impact on classroom learning? Where is her outrage that the DOE ballooned in size over the past decade? Where is her outrage at the bloat that is swelling in central offices and standing in the way of effective teachers being able to do their jobs? I guess when you’re part of that education beaurocracy it’s harder to speak against it. So Rhee just continues to bash teachers. Not very original, but I guess it’s good for making money and getting your name in the papers, huh?
3 Rs
February 11th, 2011
2:14 pm
APS needs to move heaven and earth to recruit Ms. Rhee as its next super. She might be able to rescue that foundering system. The only ones who would oppose her are the teachers union and the parents who expect their idiot ghetto children to get automatic social promotion.
MikeyD
February 11th, 2011
2:28 pm
@3 Rs:
I’d love to know what this mysterious “teachers union” is that intelligent folks like you keep talking about….
atlmom
February 11th, 2011
3:27 pm
Rhee is not looking for a job at all, so well, even if they wanted her, she doesn’t want to do it.
WHAT IS
February 11th, 2011
4:09 pm
SHE SELLING?
New Blood Needed
February 11th, 2011
4:52 pm
atlmom,
Keep emailing the APS Board. Willis would clean house and allow for some real changes. I have emailed them, myself.
TFT
February 11th, 2011
5:04 pm
Vouchers are the best way to factionalize a population. Most private schools are parochial, so vouchers will allow the religious to take public money and use it to educate their kids in religion. That’s just one constitutional problem supposedly fixed by allowing religious institutions to “earmark” public money for non-religious education. Right.
It’s funny that voucher proponents are usually Republicans who hate earmarks–unless they benefit.
ScienceTeacher671
February 11th, 2011
7:40 pm
While we’re talking about people who profit from dysfunction – has anyone yet figured out who at the state level is related to someone at Pearson?
ScienceTeacher671
February 11th, 2011
7:45 pm
@Tony – I’m pretty sure we can turn lead into gold now, but it’s not easy, and it costs more than the finished product is worth.
And before someone claims that I’m saying our children aren’t worth it – no, I’m not. But some of the people here complaining about paying school taxes, and some of the people who have been cutting the education budget for years, might be.
(Lots of waste at the state & county level, though.)
FBT
February 11th, 2011
11:23 pm
Parents must have a storng, unified voice before our lawmakers. The teacher’s organizaitons have lobbyists who know how to play the game. Why don’t parents? I believe the day is dawing on true, grassroot, parent led school reform. If we raise a collective voice loud enough and for long enough, we will be heard and we can change our schools.
ScienceTeacher671
February 12th, 2011
6:15 am
FBT, what would you change? What do you think the schools need?
I’ll start – I think better discipline would help. One or two misbehaving students can disrupt the learning environment for the other 25-35 students, and that’s not fair or just.
I think we ought to stop expecting all our children to learn at the same speed just because they’re the same age. Let the ones who can move ahead do so, and provide extra time and assistance for the students who need it. Promote based on mastery, not seat time.
I think there should be different options at the high school level, based on skills and motivation. College is good, but vocational training should also be valued and available.
I think we should spend less time on test review and more time teaching. I think if we’re going to give all these tests, they ought to mean something. Students ought to be on grade level to score “proficient” on the CRCT. Students ought to be above grade level to “exceed” on the CRCT. Students who don’t even get 70% of the answers correct ought not to “exceed” on the EOCT. And so on.
factseeker
February 12th, 2011
7:20 am
If she is in favour of vouchers for kids to attend better performing schools/private schools than the one’s they are assigned to, then where is the plan to fix the under performing schools??? Oh thats right, there is none…they will continue as usual to function as permanent fixtures to continue the vicious cycle of failures. But in the meantime we tax payers will pay for select few to go somewhere else. What a dumb idea for those who don’t have the wherewithal to fix real problems. Another modern day shortcut that does not add nor has any real significant value.
What a great reformer.
FBT
February 12th, 2011
9:40 am
@ScienceTeacher671-YES! And a serious revision of the GPS. I have never seen anything with more lack of focus. A shift to a mastery based classical approach would be a great direction to head.
deblegs
February 12th, 2011
9:42 am
Her idea’s are pay back from Washington, after we sent them Kathy Cox! Oh by the way, lately in Georgia “children first” means more useless paperwork.
Ann
February 12th, 2011
12:59 pm
It is not so much a question as to whether Michelle Rhee is “the answer” to school problems or not. The point is, by coming here, she sparked dialogue about the issues and spurred people into thinking more about them. That is the value.
In the political and academic environments we are in, it is quite difficult for anyone to come in to a “system”, make a few changes and see results in a few short years. Look at how difficult it is for U.S. presidents to institute any meaningful change. Changes are often water-downed to what is acceptable to “all groups” and we don’t get the impact we should get. I would love to see a school system really go “out on a limb”. Bring together important stakeholders and innovators ( a variety of reform authors, speakers, unique school leaders), teachers, parents, students, politicians, administrators, and design together the “ideal” school system they would envision. Plan it, then find a way to implement it. Then, give it at least 10 years to measure results.
@FBT, you are right, that parent led, grassroots reform is growing and will demand change. Either that or we will continue to see more and more families abandon the system for homeschooling.
@teacher&mom, You make a lot of good points regarding reform ideas. You state that “while public education is not perfect, it has managed to educate a large number of Noble Prize winners, scientists, doctors, nurses, educators, artists, musicians, computer whizzes, astronauts, researchers, entrepreneurs, etc. Not so sure the last 30 years have been a complete disaster given the advances in computer technology, medical research, and the list could go on.” Sure, some achievers come through the ranks of public schools, but if you review history, the time of great invention and innovation in the United States was long ago. 200 years ago, there were many more patents filed then there are today. Most computer innovators and CEO’s of major computer companies (and other types of corporations) dropped out of college early (often after 1 semester) or skipped college altogether. It was the 1960’s, over 40 years ago, when man walked on the moon. Anything compared to that feat in recent decades? Anything like the invention of airplanes or the automobile. You can find examples of things here and there, but, if we were truly educating well, we should have had, by now, many, more leaps in medicine and other fields. Progress has been quite slow in that regard.
I believe the day is dawing on true, grassroot, parent led school reform. If we raise a collective voice loud enough and for long enough, we will be heard and we can change our schools.
Ann
February 12th, 2011
1:03 pm
My last paragraph above is @FBT’s quote. I intended to acknowledge that I agreed with that, but when I pasted it in, I forgot to include the reference. From FBT “I believe the day is dawning on true, grassroot, parent led school reform. If we raise a collective voice loud enough and for long enough, we will be heard and we can change our schools.”
ScienceTeacher671
February 12th, 2011
1:30 pm
Ann, 40 years ago we didn’t have personal computers or the internet. We didn’t have cell phones or iPods, and 8 track tapes were state-of-the art in music reproduction. We didn’t have microwave ovens or DVR capabilities.
35 years ago, exploratory surgery discovered my uncle’s fatal lung cancer. They didn’t have CAT scans or MRIs to diagnose the tumors without surgery, and I don’t recall laser surgery, laparoscopic surgery, or ultrasound diagnosis being options at the time. DNA analysis was not being used either.
I’m sure you can think of a few other examples of how life has progressed in the past 40 years.
SSTeacher
February 12th, 2011
2:19 pm
While Rhee was “taking no prisoners” (meaning kill all those who oppose), the Washington Post had this to say of her on February 10, 2010. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/10/AR2011021007240.html?hpid=sec-education
teacher&mom
February 12th, 2011
2:20 pm
@Ann… ditto to what ST671 said….& according to your analysis, we are slipping back into the dark ages. Somehow I think the space shuttle, the international space station, the Mars Exploration landing mission, the Hubble telescope, were each in their own right a major achievement.
Parent involvement is important. I agree that a true, parent lead reform movement is a good thing. Just be careful of which reform movement you join. Rhee has the ability to sell her ideas as “the silver bullet” for education and people find themselves nodding their heads without realizing what her brand of reform actually looks like at the classroom level. Research further and you’ll find what she offers, along with Arne Duncan, is NCLB on steroids.
teacher&mom
February 12th, 2011
2:38 pm
Here’s some good news…..
http://www.empoweredga.org/Articles/ga-ap-11th.html
Patrick Crabtree
February 12th, 2011
2:49 pm
Let’s get to the meat of it. She says she “puts children first” and “…No. 1 students are always looking over their shoulders to see if someone is gaining on them” but, she fails to say in her “Korea” that students who do NOT rank in the top cannot go on to higher education. The ‘failures’ are sent to trade schools to be low paid unskilled workers. DO YOU REALLY WANT THAT FOR OUR CHILDREN? The founding fathers clearly understood classism in England and wanted to make sure we did not have it here. Warts and all, follow the constitution and keep PUBLIC in education. We all have choices. You want different? You have a choice, pay for it. By the way, do REAL research and you will find OVERALL (not isolated cases) these ‘other schools’ do not fair any better and in many cases do not do as well. CUT THROUGH THE EMOTIONS AND SMOKE SCREEN and ask the question, “what is her and the others like hers, real adgenda?” It is truly not for the poor that she claims to be for. Be a real investigator and FOLLOW THE MONEY.
Patrick Crabtree
February 12th, 2011
2:52 pm
Not to be said, I am not a typist and make honet mistakers as an educator, it should be “her’s”and “agenda.”
Patrick Crabtree
February 12th, 2011
3:10 pm
The Atlanta Association of Educators would like to invite you to the Mall West End on February 26th to celebrate NEA’s “Read Across America” from 11:00 am to 2:00 pm. We will be celebrating Dr. Suess’s Birthday complete with cake and an appearance from the Cat in the Hat. We are promoting literacy in the community. Any book donations ae welcomed and any literacy organization who wishes to participate to contact the AAE office (404.758.944). We have been doing this for years and ODE (Organization of Dekalb Educators) have events scheduled also, not to mention that this goes on across the country, AND PEOPLE SAY UNIONS ARE THE PROBLEM. Where are all the privatization people who claim they are about “helping educate children”? I believe they are about profit, not our children.
Ann
February 12th, 2011
4:02 pm
@ScienceTeacher671 and @teacher&mom – I never said we were going into the dark ages or that we have not had progress in some areas. Respectully, our opinions of great achievements may not be the same. Some of the examples given are things invented by persons outside of the U.S. – such as the Internet and Cat Scans. My comments were about U.S. public education. And, some examples were invented by people who “dropped out” of education at an early point.
Of course, there have been advances by Americans. It remains to be seen, however, whether the benefits of cat scans will outweigh the risks. Experts now advise that a cat scan is hundreds of times more radiation than an x-ray and they are now discouraging their use except when they are absolutely necessary. New diagnostic testing methods have some positive uses, but also a huge down side that is not being fully addressed yet, although discussions are beginning. There are many tumors, etc., being diagnosed that would have, otherwise, not caused the person any problems during their lifetimes. Yet the stress and follow-up testing required after discovery takes a huge toll on patients’ health that goes beyond the initial issue. Many of the recent medical achievements have been about diagnostic equipment or tweaks in treatment. With all the money and time that we spend on schooling and research, we should have made more progress in curing and preventing disease. Hey, but that’s not where the profits are for corporations, so the emphasis is not on that.
I don’t consider “cell phones” a great achievement. Ipods, dvd’s – these are all different technology from prior ones (such as the 8 tracks mentioned). Is it a great achievement for humanity or an improved consumer product to sell to the masses (and then sell again six months later when the newest model comes out.) I believe cell phones discourage invention and innovation. Invention and innovation requires “time” (quality time, quiet time) to ponder and think. Cell phones are often a constant interruption to that time.
One of the problems with formal schooling, as we now have it, is that kids, adolescents, and young adults lives are consumed by so many hours of schooling, that by the time they finish college, graduate school, etc., their prime years of ideas and innovation have been taken up by lectures and school assignments. It is unlikely that we would have Microsoft Corporation or Apple Computers if either of the founders had stayed in college. They all dropped out very early to follow their passions. We need to find a way for students to follow their passions and have time to explore and innovate. If we had shorter school days, kids would actually have time to think and explore. Our society is afraid of that, however. We must “keep them busy” and out of trouble. It’s in that “free time” that innovations are made, such as the invention of the personal computer.
Mikey D
February 12th, 2011
5:21 pm
@Ann:
“It is not so much a question as to whether Michelle Rhee is “the answer” to school problems or not. The point is, by coming here, she sparked dialogue about the issues and spurred people into thinking more about them. That is the value.”
The problem with Rhee and apparently the politicians who fawn all over her are not interested in dialogue. Our “leaders” are willingly ignoring the other side of the debate. They bring in this woman, who has been proven to be a liar and a fraud, and they take everything she’s offering like it’s manna from heaven. Meanwhile, when was the last time members of our legislature invited a group of teachers to come to the capitol and speak to the joint education committee on their views and beliefs? Dialogue is wonderful, but it’s a two way street. Our “leaders” are absorbing everything that one side is throwing out there, but completely ignoring the other side. I’d love to have dialogue, but unfortunately no one at the state level is interested in what teachers think or believe. Only frauds like Michelle Rhee and Erin Hames.
Ann
February 12th, 2011
5:34 pm
I would suggest that the teachers on the blog who are frustrated about not being heard by the politicians and leaders, find among you someone who can speak well and convey your ideas. Schedule a meeting, gather an audience, and invite Maureen and other media persons to cover it. It may not be easy to pull off, but it can be done. It may take a few teachers to step up as grassroots leaders, if your professional associations in Georgia are not representing your views well enough.
Maureen Downey
February 12th, 2011
5:55 pm
@Ann, A problem seems to be getting lawmakers to follow through. I know that lawmakers have agreed to meet with folks from the blog in the past, but the meetings never materialize, largely because there are many people at the Capitol walking up to legislators and talking to them about these issues. Most of those folks are lobbyists, but there are regular folks who go down as well to grab lawmakers and chat. So, I think legislators feel they are getting lots of input.
Maureen
Sam
February 12th, 2011
6:49 pm
I would LOVE to stop social promotion, but unfortunately I get in trouble if too many kids make Fs! If they fail the EOCT, they shouldn’t pass the class!
ScienceTeacher671
February 12th, 2011
7:09 pm
Ann, I went to a meeting such as you suggest last year. Although we had educators, superintendents and parents from at least 3 school districts, two of the 3 legislators who had confirmed did not show up. IIRC, one called two hours before the event and said he couldn’t make it, and the other never called at all.
Most of them apparently aren’t interested in what teachers have to say, although I must say I received a nice note from my new state Senator just this morning. I’ll be watching him closely.
AJinCobb
February 12th, 2011
10:06 pm
I think it’s unfair to blame a perceived lack of superlative scientific achievements in recent decades on the American education system. The frontiers of knowledge are so much more advanced nowadays that people have to spend more time learning what others have already discovered before they can start working at the leading edge. It’s very different from a couple of hundred years ago when one person could master a much larger portion of the sum total of human knowledge.
Furthermore, scientific progress tends to occur when social conditions are ready for it. It’s not just a product of education. If Americans were falling that much behind, wouldn’t we see the rest of the world making great scientific discoveries? It’s not like the British, Germans, Chinese etc. are hampered by the same education system as we have.
This is not to say that I agree with the claim that scientific progress has been lacking in recent decades. I think Ann is under-valuing recent achievements.
Ann
February 13th, 2011
11:12 am
Many countries are hampered with the same education system problems, meaning the long hours and long years of schooling. Our “schooling” model was not an American idea, but imported from other countries. Maureen had a blog topic just a few months ago that relates to my point about innovation. I don’t remember the exact title, but it was regarding “why kids enter school with a desire for learning, but by sixth grade, many have lost that joy of learning”. Anyone who has kids or is around kids knows the thirst for learning they have in those early years. Schools need to be better at maintaining that love of learning, as too many kids “burn out” on that.
In earlier centuries, people learned how to read and write and think, then moved on to the pursuit of ideas. Now, we feel we have to teach them for many, many years. If you count preschool, k-12, undergraduate, master’s, doctoral, it is at least 25 years for many scientists, engineers, doctors. By the time they finish this “schooling”, they are starting families, have financial obligations, and less time to pursue “ideas”. You can find examples that are exceptions, with innovations. I think there was another blog topic in recent months about college and how little is learned between the freshman and senior years. I believe we are limiting innovation with the long years of schooling. It doesn’t mean we don’t have some innovation, but not as much as we could otherwise. We are “occupying” too much of those prime years with hours and hours of assignments and homework. We all know about Thomas Edison’s inventions and that he had over 1000 patents and created General Electric. He dropped out of elementary school and traveled on his own at that point. Today, we view dropouts only as “failures” and we are afraid to let our kids take risks.
Mikey D
February 13th, 2011
1:23 pm
@Ann:
If you’ll send me your email address I would be happy to provide for you the occasions, including dates, when I have reached out to politicians at the state level. I have kept those records. There have been dozens of attempts to secure a meeting or call of some sort. As of now, I have had one email returned from my local representative thanking me for my input, but also not following through or taking me up on my invitation to meet and talk. I have had a few emails returned from Ed Lindsay promising me a conference call, but as of yet the call has not materialized. And, I have dozens of calls and emails that have never been acknowledged or returned.
You are completely missing my point when you say teachers should get a meeting with these politicians and have the media cover it. I’m trying to tell you that I have been trying for two years to do just that. THEY DON’T WANT TO MEET WITH TEACHERS AND THEY DON’T CARE WHAT TEACHERS HAVE TO SAY. Maybe in your world it’s a simple thing to just pick up the phone and schedule a meeting with someone who would rather ignore you and pretend you’re not there. But in the real world such an invitation has to be acknowledged and accepted by the other party. If you’ve got any great ideas about how to make these politicians start caring about what we think, then I’m all ears. But simply saying teachers should get a meeting scheduled is like me saying the federal government should just balance the budget. It’s easy to say, not so easy to do.
Patrick Crabtree
February 13th, 2011
1:54 pm
@Mickey and Ann. I have gone down to the legislature as a taxpayer and as a teacher who happens to be a GAE member. They call me a lobbyist, too. So politicians think one cannot think for himself. They assume their agenda is the voters agenda. Or, they are trying to usurp our voting rights just as Hitler did. (Comment was intended, to me it is that serious)
j nes
February 14th, 2011
3:40 pm
The unfamiliarity with Rhee from some of you people indicates you have no business posting on an education blog. Please do your homework.
Mikey D
February 14th, 2011
8:36 pm
@j nes:
Rhee made outrageous claims about gains her students made. Those claims have since been proven to be false. The woman is a liar.
Anything else we need to be familiar about?