Second bill opens public school clubs, teams to outside students
Per my earlier blog on this issue, Senate Bill 55 is now posted on the state web site. From my reading of the bill, it opens public school extracurricular activities to any public students in the district. So, students attending magnets or charters outside the district or zone can join clubs or teams offered at their home school.
In that sense, it seems to duplicate Senate Bill 34, which allows nonenrolled students in charter or virtual school to participate in extracurricular programs at their local school. The only difference is that SB 34 uses “shall” while SB 55 uses “may.”
SB 34 states: Public school shall allow any nonenrolled student to participate in any extracurricular activity offered or conducted by such public school outside of regular school hours in the same manner as any student currently enrolled at such public school.
But when I called Senate sponsor Renee Unterman’s office for clarification of what seems duplicate intent to me, I was told the bill applies to “any student residing that district.” I asked if that meant homeschooled or private school students, and Unterman’s aide said that it did. That doesn’t sound right to me based on the language of the bill, so I asked the aide to doublecheck and get back to me. When I get the clarification, I will post.
Regardless, this bill and SB 34 raise a slew of questions on liability, responsibility and accountability.
Are the four Senate sponsors of this bill ignoring the fact that many of these after-school activities do not run on tax dollars but on the willingness of teacher and parent volunteers to donate their own time and money to help their students?
Many posters on the first blog on this bill said that as teacher sponsors of clubs they’d be unwilling to take on students from outside their classrooms as they see the clubs as ways of enhancing their bond with their students. Is it fair to ask teachers — most of whom are not paid for their after-school clubs — to donate their time to kids outside of the school?
I have read all the posts on the first blog on this issue, and understand the desire of homeschooling and private school parents to take advantage of the clubs and activities at their local public schools. I remain concerned about the burden on the public schools to sort out this law, if it is passed.
The bill does put some discretion in the hands of the principals to set rules, but only if those principals are in accord with regulations yet to be established by the state Board of Education. It also includes language that the students seeking to join after-school clubs or teams at their local public schools be in good standing at their own schools. (The bill does not make clear whose task it is to check on the student’s standing and keep up with it.)
The Senate sponsors are Unterman, David Shafer, Chip Rogers and Don Balfour.
I have to ask those senators behind this bill: Given the deep cuts to public education funding, given your own constituents’ concerns over how their schools can continue to do more with less, is it a good idea to ask them to take on this new responsibility?
The bill states:
Nonenrolled public school student means a public school student in grades kindergarten through 12 who resides within the attendance zone of a school but who is not enrolled in such school.
A public school may allow any nonenrolled public school student to participate in any extracurricular activity offered or conducted by such public school in the same manner as any student currently enrolled at such public school. A nonenrolled public school student desiring to participate in an extracurricular activity shall register with the principal of the public school, or his or her designee, such intent to participate in extracurricular activities of the public school in accordance with rules and regulations established by the State Board of Education.
The final approval for such participation shall reside in the discretion of the principal in accordance with local board policies, or in accordance with State Board of Education or Georgia Charter Schools Commission policies, for a state chartered special school or a commission charter school, respectively.
In order to be eligible to participate in an extracurricular activity pursuant to this Code 45 section, a nonenrolled public school student shall maintain at his or her school of attendance compliance with all academic and nonacademic rules and requirements governing participation in such extracurricular activity at the public school.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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115 comments Add your comment
HS Public Teacher
February 9th, 2011
4:21 pm
LOL!!!
Bottom line…. I do not get paid extra to sponsor a club, and I get very little to coach a sport (less than what I pay for gas money). I do this because I want to. I do this because I already know these kids and I want to help them.
If ANY law requires me to accept kids outside of my school, then I quit. Simple as that. They cannot force me to sponsor a club. They cannot force me to coach a sport. Neither are in my job description.
My school gets money from the state based on FTE money – how many students are officially enrolled at my school. It is just UNFAIR to REQUIRE that my school spread even thinner the funds that we get by accepting outside kids.
THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE!!! Let the parents of one of the ‘outside kids’ come in and sponsor the club or coach a sport!!!! But, that will never happen.
HS Public Teacher
February 9th, 2011
4:24 pm
Georgia education is so screwed up…… The republican politicans are and have been leading us down this warped path for too long. When will the people and voters wake up?
Dunwoodian
February 9th, 2011
4:26 pm
Sounds fair at first glance: Home Schooling parents pay taxes and want access, no problem.
What happens when they start the slippery slope of “My kid only plays softball, one period out of six per day, I want to only pay for one sixth of my school taxes!”
What happens when said folks decide that since they have never had a fire in their home, plus they have three garden hoses, that they really don’t need the fire department? Reduce their tax bill by a quarter.
What happens when these folk decide they have enough guns and ammo not only to live out their “Shootout at the OK Corral” with the “home intruder” fantasy, but also neutralize a small army, the police are of no use? Reduce their tax bill by another quarter.
What happens when they are driving their “little angel” to Vacation Bible School and get burned in an auto accident? They have their child airlifted to Grady Hospital, which they have been complaining about for years!
What happens when they insist on having a moment of prayer prior to each game?
Yes my friends these folks are pro-choice! They choose to home school. If they don’t like it, their “snowflakes” and interact with all “Those Kids” at the local public schools.
Private School parent
February 9th, 2011
4:34 pm
Top School
Nope. It wasn’t.
Jennifer
February 9th, 2011
4:37 pm
Lawmakers – get a grip – aren’t there bigger fish to fry for kids in Georgia ? Try talking and debating much more important issues like health care, graduation rates, juvenile incarceration. Leave the after school activities to the communities to figure out.
NY teaching vet
February 9th, 2011
4:43 pm
High School Coach makes a good point. If students need someone to monitor conduct and grades, it is easily done when the student attends the school. Coaches can talk with teachers, counselors, or administrators quickly and easily. How would you be able to manage this for unenrolled students? Also, as a coach or teacher who supervises a club or activity, you often work with students during the school day (at lunch, for example) or before school. If the club is doing a fundraiser at lunch, students are needed to do that work. The liability for the school of having unenrolled students on campus at lunch time brings to mind all kinds of nightmares. The logistics are going to be unbelievable!
Private School parent
February 9th, 2011
4:46 pm
Mom of Public Schoolers
Thanks for your comment. I would just like to point out to some on this blog that every private school parent isn’t some rich fat cat sending the kids to private school to feel superior, or God forbid, to badmouth public education. Sometimes, it really is about what the kid needs.
Oh Well
February 9th, 2011
4:56 pm
@privateschoolparent…DITTO!
I have always been in favor of public education…and it really pained me when I came to the realization that for my child – it was slim pickings regarding what was available to us.
Ole Guy
February 9th, 2011
4:59 pm
It would appear that SB 34 mandates this action (”shall” holding the same weight as “will”), while SB 55, by the use of “may” allows local discretion in the matter. Either way, however, it simply makes no sense whatsoever as to why a non-enrolled kid would be allowed to participate in school-sanctioned functions of any sort. The entire mindset, I would imagine, harkens back to the NCLB notion that everyone must be “granted admittance to the pool, whether they can swim or not”.
Ann
February 9th, 2011
5:17 pm
HS Public Teacher complains that this law will spread school funds too thin. Another poster mentioned that the clubs pay their own fees through fund-raising and that school funds are not used. There seems to be different opinions regarding the funding, so it must vary from school to school or program to program.
@Dunwoodian – Why would you have such strong negative feelings about home schoolers? There are many homeschoolers that choose to do so for reasons other than religion. In many cases, it is based on the type of education the child needs, frustrations with large classes and the ever increasing emphasis on standardized testing rather than real learning and creativity
Mom to public schoolers
February 9th, 2011
5:27 pm
“What happens when said folks decide that since they have never had a fire in their home, plus they have three garden hoses, that they really don’t need the fire department? Reduce their tax bill by a quarter. What happens when these folk decide they have enough guns and ammo not only to live out their “Shootout at the OK Corral” with the “home intruder” fantasy, but also neutralize a small army, the police are of no use? Reduce their tax bill by another quarter.”
No, that’s not the correct analogy because the bills being discussed don’t give parents any tax rebates or credits. Tweaking your hypotheticals, better analogies are:
What about the folks who feel especially worried about fire in their home (perhaps because they have many elderly people or infants who can’t get out quickly in the event of a fire) who decide to supplement what is legally mandated by building codes by building a house with good fire escapes, multiple smoke detectors, and materials that aren’t easily flammable, all at their own expense. Should they thereby forfeit their right to call the fire department for help if their house catches fire? (Would that be a good thing for the community they live in, do you think?)
What happens when folks decide the government isn’t doing enough to protect them from crime and decide to put a club on their car steering wheel, put bars on their house windows, and buy a gun, at their own expense? Do they thereby forfeit their right to call the police if an intruder breaks in?
long time educator
February 9th, 2011
5:56 pm
The extra-curricular activities are an extension of the daytime school community. The school community is made up of the students who attend, the teachers who teach and the parents of the students who attend. There is often a pep rally last period on a Friday for the school community to get ready to cheer on their school mates involved in an athletic event after school.Would you expect to be included in that? Or often football players have a role in homecoming activities? Would you expect to be included in that? Choosing to homeschool or attend private school means you are choosing NOT to be apart of the public school community. Make up your mind; I don’t think you should be able to cherrypick.
mom to four
February 9th, 2011
6:12 pm
Some of these parents and teachers (Concerned Teacher) act as if they own the schools. These are public schools, my tax dollars pay for the operation of these schools. Why shouldn’t my children, who attend private school, have access to the clubs and activities. If all the parents pay fees or fund raise, the private/charter/home school parents will pay fees and fundraise as well, but you can’t expect to charge “extra” to these parents, because their tax dollars go to these schools.
Ann
February 9th, 2011
6:31 pm
This is in part about the definition of the public school community. Families who are a part of the public school system are immersed in a system where “community” is, by structure, quite narrow. Kids are separated by age, geography, and oftentimes ability into various classes. Aside from exposure to “teachers”, within school time, they have almost no contact with elders in the community at large, and spend most of their time only with kids their own age. How does this prepare kids for the adult, work world, where they must interact and work with people of all ages and generations. John Taylor Gatto, in his book “Dumbing Us Down: the Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling”, writes about the underlying reasons for all this “separation” by age and ability. It is interesting reading.
HS Public Teacher
February 9th, 2011
6:43 pm
@mom to four,
My neighbor is single and pays taxes. Does she have a right to use the public school?
Get a grip!
East Atlanta Teacher
February 9th, 2011
7:06 pm
We know of many after school programs (for which the parents pay extra) offered at local elementary and charter schools. Many of the programs fill gaps in regular ASP programming, and are things like art, music, foreign languages, yoga, martial arts, etc. I’d like to see these programs opened up to the community as well, as I have heard parents saying “I wish we could have that program at our school”. If done right, perhaps we can.
ScienceTeacher671
February 9th, 2011
7:43 pm
Private schools and charter schools don’t have extracurricular activities?
long time educator
February 9th, 2011
8:09 pm
It is hard for me to picture public school athletes welcoming private and homeschool students onto their school teams when these same students have rejected the school that the team represents. I think they would be met with hostility. These parents are naive; they may get the law changed, but they will not be welcome.
HS Public Teacher
February 9th, 2011
8:14 pm
The cost for clubs and sports is both.
The School, which gets its funding through student enrollment numbers, pays for these activities through the electricity bills, the facilities, and also encourages salaries employees (teachers) to sponsor and coach these.
The club and sport then ALSO has fund raisers, parent boosters, fees, etc. to pay for their individual costs.
Any way you slice it, allowing non-enrolled students to participate simply is not fair to those enrolled.
Atlanta mom
February 9th, 2011
8:21 pm
It seems to me that there are enough private/homeschool/virtual school students, that they need to form up their own leagues, as previously stated on this blog. What’s the problem with that?
Jen Downey
February 9th, 2011
8:29 pm
Maureen Downey ends her post, asking the following: “I have to ask those senators behind this bill: Given the deep cuts to public education funding, given your own constituents’ concerns over how their schools can continue to do more with less, is it a good idea to ask them to take on this new responsibility?”
I have to say that, I’m not sure we get to ask that question. I mean, at root our public education system exists to offer all young citizens access to teachers, physical facilities, and opportunities for certain kinds of experiences. Its either a school’s legal and ethical responsibility to make those resources available to all the kids in the district, or its not. As we know, the legal responsibility to serve all children in a district has, in fact, been there all along, but for a long time time, schools largely only served students who wanted to make full use of their offerings. The provision of public education resources looked a certain way and people got used to it. The issue of families wanting to make use of some, but not all of the public education resources to which they were entitled, simply didn’t come up in any meaningful way prior to the 1990s.
Now its very common for families to want to take care of some of their kids’ educational needs on their own, and turn to the public education system for resources to meet other needs. Many school systems offer part-time enrollment. Opening up other school-based activities, like sports, and clubs has lagged behind. Those who resist opening such programs, seem to feel like they’re being asked to share with people who don’t deserve a place at the table because these individuals don’t make use of all of the school’s resources, but I beleive this is an emotional reaction, not one that is logically or legally defensible.
That’s somewhat like saying that while everyone is entitled say to the a public defender, or a entry into a public park, or a library card
fultonschoolsparent
February 9th, 2011
8:32 pm
I’m just happy to hear that there will be a principal taking responsibility for the students’ behaviors and health records. So students spending six months a year in third world countries visiting their grandparents, with all the accompanying third world diseases, will be deemed healthy enough to mix with the general population – shot records up to date etc. Also that students whose parents have had issues with the discipline being too “harsh” (for example – the student was required to behave?) will understand that their little darling can be removed if they act out in extracurricular programs too. And yes, not everyone who chooses home schooling has “perfect” children which is how it seems to be portrayed in this blog. Some of those home school folks are simply trying to escape the responsibilities and discipline that schools require – both parents and children.
long time educator
February 9th, 2011
8:40 pm
We will have to agree to disagree; I am totally opposed to cherry picking by non-enrolled children and I will work to see that it does not pass.
Jen Downey
February 9th, 2011
8:48 pm
Also, I’m noticing that many of the comments above use pretty loaded language to talk about families who choose to primarily do their educating outside of a school. That these families have “rejected” schools, that they are “cherrypicking” in some unfair way, etc.
I don’t send my kids to school for academics, for the simple reason that they like to do their learning in a less structured environment than our school offers. We have nothing against the school. In fact, my son participated in the middle school band for two years, and loved every minute of it. He enriched the band, and the band enriched him. There are lots more people like me out here. As for cherry-picking, the accusation strikes me as strange. It assumes that School clubs and sports teams are somehow the best thing about what a school offers, and the reward for enduring the other stuff, and therefore its unfair to just make use of the “fun” stuff. I don’t feel that way. I certainly hope families who send their kids to school full-time don’t don’t feel that way, either.
Ann
February 9th, 2011
9:03 pm
What Jen Downey is saying is right on target. If public schools, as they are now, do not become more flexible in their offerings, including part-time participation, they are going to become extinct – at least the “form” they currently take. The “old model” is not working and not meeting the needs of many families. Because of that, the number of kids in charter, private and home schooling is exploding. The “old model” schools are buckling, as we can see from the CRCT cheating scandal and other issues. The graduation rate is predicted to now be as low as 64%. Graduates don’t have the skills employers need. The problems are endless and quite discouraging to parents both inside and outside the system. The survival of public schools requires “out of the box” thinking and “out of the box” service to the community.
long time educator
February 9th, 2011
9:32 pm
Please read the posts about FTE again. Homeschool and private school parents are paying state taxes, but the local school gets money from the state based on the number full time enrolled (FTE) students it has. The school only gets money for students who are enrolled full time. You have every right and will be welcomed to enroll your child in your local public school where he may take advantage of all sorts of opportunities he will not have outside of public school. It is also your right to choose to educate your child yourself or in a private school, where he will have different opportunities that he would not have in public school. It is not fair to the FTE students for your unenrolled child to come and go as he pleases.
Mom to public schoolers
February 9th, 2011
9:41 pm
“As for cherry-picking, the accusation strikes me as strange. It assumes that School clubs and sports teams are somehow the best thing about what a school offers, and the reward for enduring the other stuff, and therefore its unfair to just make use of the “fun” stuff. I don’t feel that way. I certainly hope families who send their kids to school full-time don’t don’t feel that way, either.”
Excellent point.
“It seems to me that there are enough private/homeschool/virtual school students, that they need to form up their own leagues, as previously stated on this blog. What’s the problem with that?”
Well, yeah, and you could say that’s true across the board; another answer (other than opening up extracurricular activities) is for public schools to just get out of all of it. Back to basics. Perhaps they can rent out their facilities during off-hours to the highest bidder, whether that’s one group or another of parents who want to use it for a kids’ club, or groups of adults, which could reduce everyone’s taxes. Or not.
Toto: Exposing naked body scanners...
February 9th, 2011
10:12 pm
Most school clubs and sports teams are set up as tax exempt 501(c)(3,4) organizations. Here’s what the LAW says:
§ 501. Exemption from tax on corporations, certain trusts, etc.
(a) Exemption from taxation
An organization described in subsection (c) or (d) or section 401 (a) shall be exempt from taxation under this subtitle unless such exemption is denied under section 502 or 503.
(c) List of exempt organizations
The following organizations are referred to in subsection (a):
(3) Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.
(4)
(A) Civic leagues or organizations not organized for profit but operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare, or local associations of employees, the membership of which is limited to the employees of a designated person or persons in a particular municipality, and the net earnings of which are devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes.
(B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to an entity unless no part of the net earnings of such entity inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/usc_sec_26_00000501—-000-.html
FBT
February 9th, 2011
11:31 pm
@long time educator – What about the local portion of school funding? Do local counties set the millage rate based on the number of students? My county uses the highest allowable rate with no consideration of the number of students.
The students are wanting to take advantage of after school activities which charge fees, raise funds, and utliize volunteers. How can their presence affect school funding at any significant level?
Atlanta Mom
February 9th, 2011
11:58 pm
Several important points:
1. If you read both bills, they only apply to public school students. Charter school students are public school students. That is who the legislators are attempting to serve here, not homeschool or private school students.
2. Charter schools are underfunded since they receive only a portion of the local funding from the district in which they are chartered. They are not able to tap into SPLOST funding for buildings. In many cases charters are located in facilities that lack the typical track, fields, and gyms that traditional public schools possess. APS can spend millions on new school facilities, yet the charter schools in this city have to survive on hand-outs in the form of facilities grants from the state.
3. The limitation that the activity must take place entirely outside of the regular school day will prevent charter school students from joining many activities such as band, drama, or yearbook because in most cases those activities occur during school. Charter schools have yearbooks and BETA clubs, so why would students even be interested in leaving their charter school to go to a traditional HS to participate in something that is already offered in their home school? This proposal would in practicality only apply to sports. Charter schools cannot offer the variety traditional schools do (unless funding models change) and it’s not such a big deal to allow charter school students, if they make the team, to participate. (This might actually make it fair since the school district withholds a portion of the FTE for each charter school student for the “services” the district provides to the charter school.)
4. The law appears to me to go both ways. Traditional public school students would be able to participate in extracurricular activities that occur at charter schools as well. The charter school in my neighborhood offers great after-school clubs and activities (for a fee). Sounds like local children not enrolled at the school could participate too.
Sounds like the idea is for traditional and charter schools to share their resources; isn’t that the first thing we learn in school? How to share?
Georgetown
February 10th, 2011
12:08 am
I’m seeing a lot of “it’s not fair” so my question is HOW is it not fair? You can’t just repeat that mantra without backing it up. As for the FTE dollars…….the clubs/sports are there anyway so there is no real increased cost – it’s a nice argument, but I would have to see how the costs increase by adding a few more people. For example, utility or facility costs are there regardless of the number of participants (ie. there is not per person charge – it is either a cost or it is not) and I imagine the parents either pay or fund raise for the per student costs like uniforms etc.
There is a real resistance to change on this blog so my suggestion is for most of us to get prepared because change is going to happen, like it or not.
Finally, I don’t think it is fair to say “Many” teachers would not take on the extra students. On the first blog it was more like the same few repeating themselves multiple times. Even if it were many on that one blog it doesn’t mean that is a true sampling of all teachers. I don’t think blog comments are a valid way to determine attitude towards these changes. And honestly, if the teachers feel that strongly then they shouldn’t sponsor the clubs – it’s there prerogative to refuse.
Georgetown
February 10th, 2011
12:11 am
there=their, yes, I know the difference:)
Tdawg
February 10th, 2011
1:39 am
I see nothing wrong with home schooled kids playing sports or participating in any other school activities as long as they pay what ever the fees that are required to participate in that field. Same with the charter and priviate schools. If they have no sporting teams, band, drama club or any other extra curricular activities, then I say let them do so at the local school. On the other hand. If a charter or priviate school offers these activities, then no way should they be allowed to participate in the public school’s extra curricular activities.
Bryan in South GA
February 10th, 2011
6:12 am
@Ann, I’m not “assuming these students bring in more money and volunteers, opportunities will naturally expand and increase.” I’m not assuming anything. I just know what I see in the attendance zone around the middle school where I teach. Therefore, I know that the money, volunteers, opportunities, expansion, will not happen. Probably the opposite will occur. The number of extracurricular activites offered will decrease.
FBT
February 10th, 2011
7:23 am
Or options might decrease because the collected money is missing.
http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/23-000-in-dekalb-833056.html
Wider perspective
February 10th, 2011
7:55 am
I’m originally from a Canadian province where public school teachers are highly unionized and the academics are good (Canada does much better than the US on international comparisons) but teacher-sponsored after school clubs are essentially non-existent. They existed, like here, a generation or two ago, but the rules around them became onerous and since teachers can’t be required to volunteer in this way, they stopped.
Therefore I take quite seriously the comments of some teachers on this blog and the preceding one, that if they have to accept outside students into the clubs they sponsor, they’ll quit sponsoring. It’s perfectly possible for public schools to continue to exist and fulfill their mandate of providing classes, without extracurricular activities, and since this has happened in other places, it could happen here.
Maureen Downey
February 10th, 2011
8:27 am
@Atlanta Mom. That is how I read the bills until I talked to Sen. Unterman’s office about her bill, SB 55, and then received an e-mail from a co-sponsor who said he signed onto SB 55 because it was a “bill that would allow home and private school kids to participate in public school extracurricular activities.” Unterman’s office told me the same thing.
So, either I misread the bill or the language needs expansion.
Maureen
East Cobb Parent
February 10th, 2011
9:41 am
Okay typed a comment and it vanished so will try again. For ES I don’t see the issues. Most clubs are run by outside organizations. Our neighborhood school has KidChess, Club Scientific, Science Olympiads, Art, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts and Acting. Outside of Science Olympiads there are no teachers sponsoring. While there is a teacher sponsor for Science Olympiads it is the parents that are doing the work. If a child misbehaves then the organization, such as Club Scientific, makes the call whether or not a child may continue to participate. Everyone is paying the same fee and the foundation receives a percentage to use for the school.
Our public Middle School has a similar setup. There maybe more named teacher sponsors however most of the work is done by the parents. If there are meetings during the day, I’ve never known about them (although my daughter only attended for 6th grade).
Sports for both ES and MS are handled outside the schools. So those children are used to playing with kids from different school situations.
High School seems to be the rub. I don’t have a child in high school so perhaps the clubs meet during the school day, but I would think that would interfere with seat time. Practice for sports occurs outside of the school day. I did check into the states that allow students, not attending the school, to participate in sports. All must show proof of grades and abide by the same rules as other participants. The students must try out for the sport, they are not guaranteed a spot on the team. I’ve read the blogs that state that the home school students you know of are behind, no problem, they would not score sufficiently on a standardized test to participate, and certainly would not make the debate team.
I think people are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Most people would not take advantage of this.
Now I do have to direct a comment or two at those teachers that have stated they would never sponsor a club or coach if students outside of the school are allowed to participate. Why do you do it in the first place? It certainly isn’t for the children. My husband has coached in a nonpaying position for five years. While the team is an East Cobb team, there are parents bringing their kids from Cherokee, Private Schools, Virtual Schools, and Charter Schools for him to coach. He has helped several obtain goals that allowed them to receive athletic scholarships. In some cases the schools or current team did not allow the same opportunities. Yes, he is employed and often works 13 hour days. He coaches for the kids, no other reason. He doesn’t care where they attend school, come out and do your best and he is happy.
Karma
February 10th, 2011
11:57 am
Public schools are just that, public schools. Why should a student be denied access to extra-curricular activities in PUBLIC schools that their parents taxes fund? The parents are either home-schooling or sending their students to private school because the public school is not the best option. It is unrealistic maybe even socialist to even think that public schools can service all children equally. There isn’t enough money to do that. So students who parents pay taxes in that district or county should be allowed to participate in activities that they pay for anyway. Has anyone thought that all of the other students in public schools are benefiting by the home-schooled or private schooled students? There is more money per pupil for the government to spend on the remaining students. Less students in the classroom – more money for the remaining students in the classroom.
MAC
February 10th, 2011
12:01 pm
I read the article with great interest as I’m a homeschooling mom from a state with allows all homeschoolers full and equal access to ALL extracurricular activities, including sports. And you know what? It works just fine! There are safeguards about keeping grades up and safeguards about eligibility within districts, but it’s been a rousing success. Invariably, the homeschool parents are helpful and involved in their children’s sports and clubs, and the schools have been welcoming. I’d write more, but I need to go pick up the team t-shirts, finish the spirit bags and haul the swim team off to State!
Toto: Exposing naked body scanners...
February 10th, 2011
12:08 pm
Most posters have missed the legal point of a 501(c)(3) organization that I posted above. These clubs/sports teams are TAX EXEMPT! That means that they can fund raise AND NOT PAY ANY TAXES ON THE MONEY USED TO BENEFIT THEIR STUDENT. It also means that no one working for the organization can privately profit from it. IT IS A CHARITY! The only reason it has tax exempt status is so that IT CAN SERVE THE CITIZENS THROUGH THE CHARITABLE GIVING OF OTHERS. These CHARITABLE organizations rely on TAX supported buildings and stadiums (public schools) to conduct their services. They are not legally connected in any way to the “school” where they are based. The “Northside Tigers” are NOT….legally. Public schools merely give a CHARITABLE contribution to the sports teams or clubs by supplying meeting space/stadiums or teacher volunteers. I do not see how a charitable tax exempt organization can refuse membership to non-public school students. If they do, they could be SUED to change their tax-exempt status!
EduPoli
February 10th, 2011
12:30 pm
The story is told of an ice cream company executive who was speaking to a gathering of retired educators in Nebraska. He proudly acclaimed the growth of the local company from a small business, started on a dime, to a thriving nationally known brand and how Time Magazine had recently published the company’s successes as one of its cover stories. After the executive completed his speech, he opened the floor to questions from the audience. Several of the retired educators walked to the pre-positioned microphones and asked questions on how the speaker felt his education had helped him in his rise to the top of the business world. He answered these questions with ease. As he prepared to close his presentation, he took the opportunity to address personal concerns he had about the current state of education in America. He spoke of how educators need to work harder to meet the challenges of competing in a rapidly expanding world economy; of how every student must be pushed to score well on standardized tests. He encouraged each person listening to contact an educator and let them know how corporate America is looking to them to produce the next great crop of business leaders. The audience applauded these last comments and everyone was feeling motivated to accept his challenge; or so it seemed.
Near the back of the auditorium, a lone elderly lady rose slowly to her feet. After she steadied herself on the chair in front of her, she began speaking. Her voice was strong and her diction flawless. She asked permission to address the speaker. With a nod, the executive granted her request. Once the audience quieted, she asked, “What type of ingredients do you use in your ice cream?” He answered by saying his company uses only the choicest ingredients. Teams travel the world seeking the finest vanilla beans, cocoa beans, dairy products, sugars, and other ingredients. Then scientists and nutritionists spend months and sometimes years developing each flavor of ice cream until just the right formula is achieved. Only then, are the products sent to market. The aging educator stood tall and responded, “Public school teachers don’t get to choose which ingredients we use. They use whatever children are brought through their doors; ripe and unripe, bruised, battered, diseased, tattered, and torn. Yet they are expected to produce the same quality results your ice cream company does.” The speaker stood quietly, allowing the words to sink in. He was trying to formulate a disarming response, but the realization of the truth in the lady’s words left him speechless. He finally understood how difficult the challenges our public school teachers face.
Most private and charter schools have a selection process through which they filter students that do not fit their school’s mold. Ask most private schools to provide services for a quadriplegic or a child with severe emotional problems and the great majority will turn them away. The only alternative for these students will be public schools. Public schools must discover ways to keep students with behavior problems from being suspended, expelled or dropping out altogether. When they fail to do this, it shows in the “Annual Yearly Progress” (AYP) report. Drop one student below the designated line in one single school and the entire system fails to meet AYP. I do not oppose private or charter schools. In fact, I applaud their successes. My point is simply; don’t compare the results of traditional public schools to them.
iamshell
February 10th, 2011
12:36 pm
Since public schools are funded by the state taxpayers as well, does that mean that anyone in the state should be able to tap into extracurricular activities too? What about those paying sales tax? Should an out of town guest be allowed to use the football field because they helped to pay for it? The tax money argument doesn’t really work.
Toto: Exposing naked body scanners...
February 10th, 2011
12:52 pm
@iamshell
You have intuitively pointed out the UNCONSTITUTIONAL nature of public schools. If you read the history of the passage of state compulsory attendance laws, you will find that many opposed it on those grounds. By comparison, home schooling IS Constituitonally based, AS IT EXISTED FIRST!
If you replaced “public school” in your scenario with the word “public parks”, the answer would be an obvious YES! Why? What is the difference?
East Cobb Parent
February 10th, 2011
1:20 pm
I remember my mother attending Red Cross classes at my ES. So at one time schools were open to other activities.
Ann
February 10th, 2011
1:55 pm
@ East Cobb Parent. You mention: “I’ve read the blogs that state that the home school students you know of are behind, no problem, they would not score sufficiently on a standardized test to participate, and certainly would not make the debate team.” I wouldn’t generalize about home-schoolers achievements based on a few blog comments about individual children and assume few would qualify. They are getting into college at pretty high rates. Numerous research studies conducted the last couple of decades show that the homeschooled scored, on average, at the 65th to 80th percentile on standardized academic achievement tests in the United States and Canada, compared to the public school average of the 50th percentile. There was a higher percentage of literacy before formal schooling was established, when everyone was home schooled.
big picture
February 10th, 2011
3:41 pm
Just looking at the bigger picture. If we go to vouchers and state monies can be used by individual families to pay for private school, doesn’t that mean that my tax dollars are being used to support private education? By extension, then, shouldn’t those private schools that accept vouchers comprised of state monies be force to open their academic and athletic clubs and afterschool activities to all of the residents who reside in any district that the attendees of that school using vouchers are from? So, say Waldorf accepts students with vouchers from 5 area counties, should all public school students from those counties be allowed to participate in their extra-curricular activities as well, as one could argue that the schools is being supported by tax dollars from the people residing in those counties. Seems like a very slippery slope when it comes to the tax dollar argument.
old school doc
February 10th, 2011
4:15 pm
As a volunteer leader of an elementary school afterschool sports program, I worry about the safety aspect of this issue. It is hard enough keeping up with 30-40 kids you barely know. Adding a few that the kids don’t even know would make my job even harder. I would allow outside kids to participate IF I get the OK from school folks AND the parent agrees to stick around to help. I welcome community support, I just don’t want to be the babysitter for parents who otherwise are doing nothing for my school.
Ole Guy
February 10th, 2011
4:45 pm
HS Public Teach, ONCE AGAIN…I will “beat the dead horse into the ground”…the dead horse being the state to which YOU (teachers) are allowing YOUR profession to spiral. YOU must take control, take command, of YOUR profession. As long as you permit the powers that be to use your professional domain as a dumping ground for all the woes, financial and otherwise, within society, YOU will loose. You can complain, piss n’ moan, and form all sorts of meaningless organizations you want. Until YOU form a collective voice…a voice with strength, nothing will change. By taking no action, you will only embolden the powers that be to continue this nonesense.
THE BALL’S IN YOUR COURT, TEACH.
Warrior Woman
February 10th, 2011
4:47 pm
@Toto – 501(c)(3) organizations are not required to take all comers. The American Cancer Society is not required to serve Alzheimer’s patients. Further, the organizations are not required to provide more services than their capabilities permit. These organizations can be formed for very specific purposes, such as “to serve the female student-athletes of XYZ High School” or “to support leadership, sportsmanship, and learning through ABC sport at XYZ High School.” These are quoted, with names changed, from currently valid 501(c)(3) filings in the state of Georgia. They are specific, and one could argue that serving populations other than those in their 501(c)(3) filings would be improper. Further, public schools are not GIVING anything to clubs. Clubs are renting facilities and teachers and parents are volunteering their time as sponsors.
@Ann and JenDowney – The language used with respect to homeschoolers and private schoolers is no less kind than has been used to discuss public schoolers in the past, including some of your allegations. Pot, meet Kettle.